#robotics Logs
Nov 21 2020
#robotics Calendar
08:43 AM gartt: Based on a true story
10:56 AM mun: hi
10:57 AM ace4016: hello
10:58 AM mun: anyone know why it's more common for robotic rovers to have individually steerable wheels rather than linked (ackermann) steerable wheels?
10:58 AM ace4016: common where?
10:58 AM ace4016: like, hobbyist common, or industrially?
10:58 AM mun: ace4016 well, both i guess
10:58 AM mun: and in research papers as well
10:59 AM mun: is it because ackermann steering is hard to motorised?
11:00 AM rue_bed: ackerman is hard to link
11:00 AM ace4016: simpler control typically. ackermann and all are nonlinear control schemes for pathing. many industrial rovers still seem to use ackerman though
11:00 AM ace4016: it's a hard but solved problem
11:00 AM rue_bed: it took me a year to get a cart right
11:00 AM mun: how come ackermann is hard to link?
11:00 AM rue_bed: if you havn't DONE one, try it first
11:01 AM rue_bed: it was completely evil
11:01 AM ace4016: lol
11:01 AM rue_bed: which was stupid, cuase like the romans did it
11:01 AM mun: the joint?
11:01 AM mun: joints
11:02 AM rue_bed: its the lenghts and angles of the arm linkages
11:02 AM rue_bed: its pure evil
11:03 AM mun: right
11:03 AM rue_bed: go on, try it
11:03 AM ace4016: i guess it is good to know why people typically do (or don't do) something; in this case, if you're trying to pick a design, there's tradeoffs. lots of people making rovers either aren't familiar with certain things, or lazy
11:04 AM ace4016: so it's a level of complexity that they may not want to deal with (or they don't know about steering systems and just naively design)
11:06 AM mun: it does look a bit daunting
11:44 AM mun: anyone know what kind of steering this uses? is it ackermann? https://youtu.be/bvNdc0Krgf8?t=73
11:44 AM mun: but the linkage mechanism isn't trapezoidal
01:19 PM Malvolio is now known as rbtmcoaie2020112
01:20 PM rbtmcoaie2020112 is now known as MLVLVS
10:46 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Huh
10:47 PM Jak_o_Shadows: I must be getting some kind of switching effects. THe wrong colour LED's are coming on
10:47 PM Jak_o_Shadows: the backwards wired ones
11:18 PM mrdata-: weird
11:18 PM mrdata-: that means reverse current flow?
11:19 PM mrdata-: are there inductors nearby, in the circuit?
11:19 PM mrdata-: (including motors)
11:20 PM mrdata-: shottky diodes across those are usual fix
11:22 PM Jak_o_Shadows: There's long wire?
11:22 PM Jak_o_Shadows: No motors, just LED's
11:22 PM Jak_o_Shadows: on christmas lights
11:22 PM Jak_o_Shadows: they are coiled?
11:23 PM mrdata-: long coiled wires are inductors but they'd usually have fairly low overall parasitic inductance unless they are designed to be inductors
11:24 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Yeah. and it's only like 25m of wire
11:24 PM mrdata-: how many turns
11:24 PM mrdata-: are the anomalous colours solid or do they flash
11:25 PM mrdata-: and then go to normal
11:25 PM Jak_o_Shadows: happens only when I switch the normal colours
11:25 PM mrdata-: what do you use for switching
11:25 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Dunno how many turns. Maybe 30 at most?
11:25 PM Jak_o_Shadows: H-bridge. L298N
11:26 PM mrdata-: got a schematic handy?
11:27 PM mrdata-: transients with H-bridges sometimes happen; i recall adding an RC filter
11:28 PM mrdata-: does the controller have dead-time?
11:29 PM Jak_o_Shadows: It's just one of data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxMSEhUSExIVFhMXGBoYGBcYGRkZGRkYFx0XGhobHhkeHCggHRsoGyAXITIhJTUrLjAuGB8zODYtOCgtLisBCgoKDg0OGxAQGy0mICYvLS0tLy0tLS0vLystLS0vKy8tLS0tLS0wLS8tLS0tLi8tLS0rLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLf/AABEIALcBEwMBEQACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAEAAgMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAABQYDBAcCAQj/xABGEAACAgEDAgQEBAMFBAYLAAABAgMRAAQSIQUxBhMiQTJRYXEUI0KBYpGhBzNScoIVU7HBFnOi0/DxJENEVGNkk5TC0eH/
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11:29 PM mrdata-: uck
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11:29 PM mrdata-: dont
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11:29 PM mrdata-: pastefail
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11:30 PM Jak_o_Shadows: P9GPq6kPslfufz/sf7e8vjUwyQ/x/wB5F/8AUX4R/nC46jN9jv7P0+B1+X/kVvdepK6edJFDIyuh7MpDA/uOMpcXF2ehdGSkrp3NIdC03mmfyUMpo7iLojgEA8KftlnX1MuS7sV9RTzZ7akV1bQh9XIzQl0bSmMnYWBYve2wO+3Lqc7Ukk9c1/YqqwvUvb/q0a2o6TLHp9XDRkHk7dO4vzCpD7Y2I5JVqFnggi/fJKrCU4S2115ePmQ6qUYzjwt2efh5Fr0p9C9x6R3BB7fI9sxy3Zsh9qMucJDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYB5dbFZxq4IfV9Kv2yp0ycZ23IzqGhBA3/ovaxvct/wCFwQy/sfvY4yLVty6nUa0iV1YwXQ7FfbIshUgCRyi7VDqtLKq8lSm0qaPlsbyKaZqU7R5aW7vLl5+
11:30 PM Jak_o_Shadows: ppz9OhSQ6tEd23Bd26wFFRxaVV3U8rG0JcAhTTBeCLMzsVUqCvrvbRfv4IpPVOj6gahUmX/0mcGRkolQedwZtvoVVWyosbVG3jLYsxSheVtz1rTJBH+DLBpTZkoqVVZSCIweNxchGdj2Xy092GIRbd2W4icIrLBaLfvZam6fJFpotImoCvK1PqHY7YwFshST2ACooHJA+tj1E44WjnZ4NNyxuIaZ86N4c1Oi1AUah59NKj7xIpBRh8Jok8HtzRNng1eZcD0hLETaa2L+lMHTpUlPieuuabRSMsMzxCSqVS5UgH2VwQUsntyL9jnpVaMKi7S8+J5mGxFelqleJR/F3hp9OUaDTyKq7izBy7Htta1AIIF2V9iO1Z58sJUp6x1Xv6HuR6RoV7Jdl8uBpeFukya/UA2ABRJ7La7aAA/
11:30 PM mrdata-: make it stop
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11:30 PM Jak_o_Shadows: ZAzftk6FJZ872jr8e5CvVeTIt5afPsaCdLeA/l8L7oeUYD2I/wCff65klmzOTN8MuVRXArHU+gWhWL8tiKEbk7TwfglPb7P8/iyiSvtufQYXpbLaNZac1+6+Dokeiinjj370XYAEXcjLtVQVfbzY5HyrtfvuVmj5ao3Go2uZpweH1QOqs0kcgKxhm3bTTIff1AbjweBsJ71hRsmr7jrHmjNLVFk6V06PTxJDGKRAAPr8yfmSeSfriEFFWRKtWnWm6k3ds3MkVEX1noEGpoyJ61+GRSUkQ/wuOR9u2QlCMtzRQxVWjpF6cnqn5Fb6xreo9PQbB+OQsAvobzk9zv2KQwoEbuDZHfKpSqQWmpvoUsJipdp9W/HsvwvsWDWddCaePUeVJTtGu1hsZDKyp6g3Ion2v/nlrnonbcwwwzlUdO60u+d7K
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11:30 PM Jak_o_Shadows: U2Xy7FJLjLXyWxnj26rfCOnm9yVlgVu4zPY0qTRH6roytxQr5HK3TTLFVZqTdJmVNkbkj2pijr8qYcEfRrH0zmWSVkFNZszRn8PdIaEM8ju8r1bO29go7LdAAXfC8YpU3HWTuyeJrqq1liopcETOXGcYAwBgGj1bpq6hBGzMo3K/p23aMGXuD+oA/tkZRuW0qrpSzR5Neuh5g6XtmafzZSWFFCw2ccCgFHbn3/UT74UbO4lVvBQstPUy9M6dHp0KRrSl3ev4nYsf2s9vlWdjFRVkcq1ZVZZp9y9DbzpWMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDANb8Cm4uBRYhmqwGYAAMR2JAA5+g+QyWZ2sQyK9yB1emaBdTqZEEs0jKIlUMQAhAhW/00x3E8CyTmmMlNxgtEt/
11:30 PM Jak_o_Shadows: 3M0ouClOWre37E706Jo4UWSQu6qN7n9TfqP0F3mebUpNxVkaYJxilJmTT6lJBuR1cfNSCP5jIuLW6OxkpbHzXKxjcIacqwU/JqNf1rOxtmV9hK+V23I/wv0+WCAJM4eUszuQP1OSx59zZ78fbLMRUjOd4qy4FWHpyhC0nd7sl8pLxgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwCN8Q9POo07wg1uq/awCCy37WAR++W0anVzUiqvTdSDiiD66dQjSSovlqY00sC2LMkrqBIdpIVVsUD9e15oo9XJKL11cn4JbeZmrZ4tyWmiivFvcldb1FtPG8jEPHEoDseHZgCTVCiTaALxyTyKyiFNVJKK0bL5VHTi29Ujc0/U42YR7tspF+WxAfgAn03yORyLGQdOSV+
11:30 PM Jak_o_Shadows: HMnGrFu3HkbuQLBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgHl0BBBAIPcHtgbmj1DpKTLGpJVEkWTatBWKHcAwrtfPFcjLIVXBtrirFU6SmkuCdzAmjkfUCSZF2xWYSr2PUNpLKVB37bHeqPz5yTnGMLRe+5FQk53kttiXykvGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMAYAwBgDAGAMA//2Q==
11:30 PM mrdata-: pastefail. i blame dragon drops
11:30 PM Jak_o_Shadows: god, i'm sorry
11:30 PM Jak_o_Shadows: https://www.twinschip.com/image/cache/catalog/Products%20Twins%20Chip%20Store%202020/Shield%20Modules/Motors%20Drivers/L298N%20Dual%20H%20Bridge%20%20Product/L298N%20Dual%20H%20Bridge%20DC%20Stepper%20Motor%20Module%20Twins%20Chip%203-550x550w.jpeg
11:30 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Very much so
11:32 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Switching at like 16 kHz
11:32 PM mrdata-: hmm
11:33 PM mrdata-: check on oscilloscope for transients
11:35 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Yeah, there is a little bit.
11:35 PM mrdata-: add RC low pass filter
11:35 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Nowhere near the 31V full on
11:35 PM mrdata-: what is the frequency of the transients?
11:35 PM mrdata-: and how much current is in those
11:37 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Um, so the transients might be at 10x or 20x the switching frequency. So 150 kHz or 300 kHz
11:37 PM Jak_o_Shadows: dunno how much current
11:37 PM mrdata-: ok; how much current do you need for your LEDs
11:39 PM Jak_o_Shadows: It's a 6W strand - so like, 190 mA full on
11:41 PM mrdata-: tau = RC is the time constant; iirc f = 1 / (2 pi RC); so for 150 kHz then 150000 = 1/(2 pi RC); select R so that you dont starve your LEDs
11:41 PM mrdata-: then solve for C
11:44 PM mrdata-: eg: if R=10 ohms, then C = 1e-7
11:44 PM mrdata-: .1 uF