#robotics Logs
Jan 04 2020
#robotics Calendar
12:22 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Hmmm.
12:28 AM Jak_o_Shadows: The timing bit may be working
12:28 AM Jak_o_Shadows: now trying to use the SPI DMA
12:28 AM Jak_o_Shadows: the DMA is counting down all fine.
12:28 AM Jak_o_Shadows: But I aint seeing it on the scope
12:31 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Ok.
12:31 AM Jak_o_Shadows: a) Clocks: GPIO, SPI, DMA, AFIO
12:33 AM Jak_o_Shadows: b) Pin setup correct (Output 50MHZ, ALTFN PUSHPULL)
12:38 AM Jak_o_Shadows: The SPI thinks itse's sending I think
01:18 AM rue_mohr: did you get the right altfunction switches for the port AND turn on the altfn clock for that
01:19 AM rue_mohr: aka did you turn on the clock for the clock for the clock for the subsystem for the perphials clock
01:20 AM rue_mohr: it seems to be what stm32 is all about
01:21 AM rue_mohr: am I the last person left in the world?
01:21 AM rue_mohr: no, there is me
01:21 AM rue_mohr: aside from you
01:21 AM rue_mohr: I dont count
01:21 AM rue_mohr: not ... whole-ly
01:21 AM rue_mohr: I dont think thats fair
01:21 AM rue_mohr: yea, rack it up
01:22 AM rue_mohr: you need to work on something not software
01:22 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Look, I think it's all on
01:22 AM rue_mohr: everything is software
01:22 AM Jak_o_Shadows: I was. Then I ran out of filament.
01:22 AM rue_mohr: hmm
01:22 AM rue_mohr: I could be in the freezing rain taking apart pcbs
01:22 AM rue_mohr: yea, their all getting wet, you need to fix that asap
01:23 AM rue_mohr: maybe if we stick them under the shelter?
01:23 AM rue_mohr: there's getting to be no room left under there
01:23 AM rue_mohr: need more wooden boxes
01:23 AM rue_mohr: not for outside you dont
01:24 AM rue_mohr: need more space
01:24 AM rue_mohr: or less stuff
01:24 AM rue_mohr: its a stripdown pile
01:24 AM rue_mohr: yea, and there aint gonna be much left worth stripping down soon
01:24 AM rue_mohr: arg
01:24 AM rue_mohr: wait, whats worth stripping down
01:25 AM rue_mohr: dunno, we do seem to have lots of parts
01:25 AM rue_mohr: arg
01:25 AM rue_mohr: I know
01:25 AM rue_mohr: Jak_o_Shadows, what else you working on
01:25 AM rue_mohr: as the only other person alive on the planet
01:25 AM rue_mohr: that could be depressing to some people eh?
01:25 AM rue_mohr: I'm sure he's ok
01:25 AM rue_mohr: are we?
01:25 AM rue_mohr: dont wanna know
01:26 AM Jak_o_Shadows: The VGA
01:26 AM rue_mohr: mono?
01:26 AM rue_mohr: we should give him a hand
01:26 AM Jak_o_Shadows: For starters
01:26 AM rue_mohr: I have too many software projects now!
01:26 AM rue_mohr: fpga
01:26 AM rue_mohr: not writing an fpga vga controller
01:26 AM rue_mohr: you dont want to do vga?
01:27 AM rue_mohr: no I want a hardware project
01:27 AM rue_mohr: like what?
01:27 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Have you got a nice leg?
01:27 AM rue_mohr: keyboard...dec... ok, not that...
01:27 AM Jak_o_Shadows: With elastic elements?
01:27 AM rue_mohr: nothing with compliant joints yet
01:27 AM rue_mohr: we could work on the compliant joint servo software
01:27 AM rue_mohr: no software!
01:27 AM rue_mohr: so your just gonna sit there
01:28 AM rue_mohr: I might
01:28 AM rue_mohr: not coding
01:28 AM rue_mohr: maybe
01:28 AM rue_mohr: look, we have the todo list
01:28 AM rue_mohr: yea, can I burry my head in the sand
01:28 AM rue_mohr: cmon, do something
01:29 AM rue_mohr: dont we have something that needs bolts to be turned?
01:29 AM rue_mohr: well, you could pickup the pcbs and put them under better cover?
01:29 AM rue_mohr: pajamas
01:29 AM rue_mohr: I know how to fix that eh?
01:29 AM rue_mohr: ugh
01:29 AM rue_mohr: breadboard
01:29 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Design a 3D printed ratcheting one-way bearing thing
01:29 AM rue_mohr: 555?
01:30 AM Jak_o_Shadows: So you can pull it out, then it lockis
01:30 AM Jak_o_Shadows: with a releast to let it go back
01:30 AM Jak_o_Shadows: For cable management
01:30 AM rue_mohr: if I could show you the trello board of about 100 things on the todo list
01:31 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Also, I have the DMA half working
01:31 AM rue_mohr: damnit the engine is workigng on it
01:31 AM rue_mohr: what do you care
01:31 AM Jak_o_Shadows: it's putting stuff on the SCK, but MOSI is disagreeing with me currently
01:31 AM rue_mohr: I have to listen to it deisn
01:31 AM rue_mohr: ding
01:31 AM rue_mohr: damnit
01:32 AM rue_mohr: Jak_o_Shadows, its designed
01:32 AM rue_mohr: its not a ratchet tho
01:32 AM Jak_o_Shadows: hang on, what is?
01:32 AM Jak_o_Shadows: ah
01:32 AM rue_mohr: its a lock that fits into the gap that you put the cables into when its turned to be open
01:32 AM Jak_o_Shadows: well, I mean, there is a perfectly functioning VGA output library, but i'm doing it again for fun
01:32 AM rue_mohr: on a printed spring that you push on to retract the lock
01:33 AM rue_mohr: yea, I'm trying to get my mind of things I dont want to be thinking about
01:33 AM rue_mohr: and get his ass out of the chair
01:33 AM rue_mohr: we shuld sit in the shop
01:34 AM rue_mohr: ah, I think you want the silence
01:34 AM rue_mohr: silence would be better than pondering the truck
01:34 AM rue_mohr: are we gonna write down that design for jak?
01:35 AM rue_mohr: oh I wont forget
01:35 AM rue_mohr: yea like that other thing
01:35 AM rue_mohr: the code calls
01:35 AM rue_mohr: maybe what I want is to finish something
01:35 AM rue_mohr: oh you want your endorphines
01:35 AM rue_mohr: maybe I do
01:35 AM rue_mohr: hmm
01:36 AM rue_mohr: ok, how about this
01:36 AM rue_mohr: if you can make a scanless keybaord decoder
01:36 AM rue_mohr: why cant you make a scanless led matrix driver
01:36 AM rue_mohr: your insane
01:36 AM rue_mohr: its plausable
01:36 AM rue_mohr: how, no
01:37 AM rue_mohr: that process doesn't reverse
01:37 AM rue_mohr: even the engine immediatly rejects it
01:37 AM rue_mohr: in such case, your phrasing the question wrong
01:38 AM rue_mohr: it just says no
01:38 AM rue_mohr: yea, I'm noticing that
01:38 AM rue_mohr: but
01:38 AM rue_mohr: it says we cant activate more than one led at a time, but that we can hardware decode which led on the fly
01:39 AM rue_mohr: can we release this problem?
01:39 AM rue_mohr: no, you know it does not release design challanges
01:39 AM rue_mohr: how about we make a 8031 do soemthing
01:39 AM rue_mohr: ah! a coding thing!
01:40 AM rue_mohr: no, your right, no.
01:40 AM rue_mohr: state machine?
01:40 AM rue_mohr: your getting closer, but no
01:40 AM rue_mohr: how about soemthing to load your ram based state machines
01:40 AM rue_mohr: no, that would need coding
01:40 AM rue_mohr: what doesn't need coding?!!?!?!
01:40 AM rue_mohr: an lm555
01:41 AM mrdata: discrete logic?
01:42 AM rue_mohr: yea, its funny, I get tired of running 68 wries on a project
01:42 AM rue_mohr: he wanted to try doing a whole project i2c and it was a complete flop
01:42 AM rue_mohr: we just went with a larger controller instead
01:42 AM rue_mohr: and cause there was more memory, we could have fit the i2c code
01:42 AM rue_mohr: yea, it imploded good
01:43 AM rue_mohr: what country are people awake in now?
01:43 AM rue_mohr: there must be a country somewhere
01:43 AM rue_mohr: me is in burningdown
01:43 AM rue_mohr: oz?
01:43 AM rue_mohr: where is Jak_o_Shadows
01:43 AM rue_mohr: usa, isn't ?
01:43 AM rue_mohr: no
01:43 AM rue_mohr: ... I think so
01:44 AM rue_mohr: your the only person awake in canada
01:44 AM rue_mohr: sad its only 11:39pm
01:45 AM rue_mohr: I think you should sit in the shop
01:45 AM rue_mohr: turn on some of the computers
01:45 AM rue_mohr: darn power outage
01:52 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Nah, Australia
01:52 AM Jak_o_Shadows: One of the "Not on fire/covered in smoke bits"
01:53 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Which means we only have a little smoke
01:53 AM rue_shop2: do you know how long its been since those areas had a fire?
01:54 AM Jak_o_Shadows: For me personally, I had a fire 2km away a couple of years back
02:00 AM rue_shop1: I need a robot body
02:00 AM rue_shop1: before trump starts a war that destroys the world so he can stay president
02:00 AM rue_shop1: how did he not get shot yet?
02:01 AM rue_shop1: R 2R
02:01 AM rue_shop1: yes, I'll assemble an R-2R
02:02 AM rue_shop1: hey, and I have a storage scope, i can profile my servos
02:02 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Profile the servos?
02:03 AM rue_shop1: yea, overshoot and stuffs
02:03 AM rue_shop1: I couldn't with my analog scope
02:03 AM Jak_o_Shadows: What do you actually measure?
02:04 AM rue_shop1: the feedback voltage
02:04 AM Jak_o_Shadows: ah.
02:48 AM Jak_o_Shadows: bugger me
02:48 AM Jak_o_Shadows: I wasn't setting memory increment, so it was sending the first byte
02:48 AM Jak_o_Shadows: which was zero
02:48 AM Jak_o_Shadows: I was setting memory increment for the wrong DMA channel
02:59 AM rue_mohr: hahah
02:59 AM rue_mohr: good one
03:46 AM rue_shop1: heh, trying to save a image of the scope trace, and having floppy issues :)
03:50 AM rue_shop1: maybe the drive I'm trying to read with is shot
03:51 AM rue_shop2: but I think it can stream the file to the serial port
03:51 AM rue_shop2: so, maybe I need to set that up
03:56 AM rue_shop2: everything is filters
03:56 AM rue_shop2: I need to work on filters
03:56 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Well, I think it may be working
03:56 AM Jak_o_Shadows: at least partially
03:56 AM rue_shop1: some noise out?
03:56 AM Jak_o_Shadows: There's a little bit of ghosting, and I dunno if I am sending enough data
03:56 AM Jak_o_Shadows: nah, it's a pattern
03:57 AM Jak_o_Shadows: 0->51 in binary
03:57 AM Jak_o_Shadows: as columns across the screen
04:11 AM rue_mohr: ok
04:12 AM rue_mohr: I suppose an fpga could do the syncs with 1 counter and 4 comparitors
04:14 AM rue_mohr: how does 8 bit colour go, you use 3 bits for red and green and give blue 2 bits?
04:19 AM rue_mohr: huh, yuv is 4:2:2
04:19 AM rue_mohr: aha
04:19 AM rue_mohr: yes
04:20 AM rue_mohr: https://prd-wret.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/production/s3fs-public/styles/full_width/public/thumbnails/image/Table_color_grayscale_depth.jpg
04:20 AM Jak_o_Shadows: With the STM, I am not gonna get past 3 bits I feel
04:20 AM rue_mohr: less bits to blue cause the eye doesn't respond to it as well, I rememeberd right
04:20 AM rue_mohr: Jak_o_Shadows, what resolution your targeting?
04:23 AM rue_mohr: 640*480*256 would be 2.4M of pixel buffer
04:25 AM rue_mohr: 6.1M for 1024x768
04:25 AM zhanx: woke up
04:25 AM zhanx: sick all day
04:25 AM rue_mohr: hmm
04:25 AM zhanx: broke the chair as i sat down
04:26 AM rue_mohr: https://www.instructables.com/id/ATtinyPowerMeter/
04:26 AM rue_mohr: you did't use your boot
04:26 AM rue_mohr: your skills are deversifying
04:26 AM zhanx: butt not boot
04:26 AM zhanx: oh thats nice
04:27 AM rue_mohr: I thought I got the parts
04:27 AM zhanx: rue_mohr, its the cold that takes the back of your head and bashes it
04:27 AM rue_mohr: but, thats not the screen I got
04:27 AM zhanx: i need to take meds and think
04:28 AM zhanx: need a 32-50 servo controler
04:29 AM rue_mohr: heh an stm32 with a few 4017 can do 44
04:30 AM rue_mohr: at insane resolution that only I'm interested in
04:30 AM zhanx: i only need like 100us
04:30 AM zhanx: you want like .0001
04:31 AM rue_mohr: mumble mumble fpga mumble
04:31 AM zhanx: thought i read you are done with fpga
04:31 AM rue_mohr: no
04:32 AM rue_mohr: I, just, dont want to keep working on software all the time forever
04:32 AM zhanx: k
04:32 AM rue_mohr: I assmebled one of my DACs and checked it out with the scope
04:32 AM zhanx: i think we(i) can make an easier solution
04:33 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Well, nowhere near that - I only have like 64kByte flash remember
04:33 AM Jak_o_Shadows: RAM*
04:33 AM rue_mohr: CGram
04:33 AM rue_mohr: er, DDram
04:33 AM rue_mohr: you need external CGram
04:33 AM rue_mohr: rom
04:33 AM rue_mohr: I'm falling asleep
04:33 AM Jak_o_Shadows: nah, can't get to it fast enough.
04:33 AM rue_mohr: parallel
04:34 AM rue_mohr: whats pixel clock?
04:34 AM Jak_o_Shadows: 36 MHz
04:34 AM Jak_o_Shadows: it's only a 72MHz chip
04:34 AM rue_mohr: I cant think
04:34 AM rue_mohr: so that fpga can go up to 400 eh?
04:35 AM Jak_o_Shadows: A single frame buffer, for a single bit, takes up 60ish kByte
04:36 AM Jak_o_Shadows: (I'm targeting 800x600)
04:36 AM Jak_o_Shadows: So ok, I could just have a lower actual frame rate, and update bits of it form external RAM
04:36 AM rue_mohr: well
04:36 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Through I think some sort of other approach is better
04:37 AM rue_mohr: you address characters at 1/8 (assuming 8*8 charactrers) and let a clock/selector deal with the serialization
04:38 AM rue_mohr: well, in short cheat and make it a text thing
04:38 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Yup
04:38 AM rue_mohr: casue you only need to store characters
04:38 AM Jak_o_Shadows: and even if you store lines
04:38 AM rue_mohr: hmm
04:38 AM Jak_o_Shadows: (Cause you only DMA out a line at a time, and you have a few us between lines)
04:38 AM rue_mohr: I wonder how much you can do in refresh
04:39 AM rue_mohr: zhanx, did you hear about the gears?
04:39 AM rue_mohr: I got some new ones, turns out to be the exact same box/pn as what they put in
04:39 AM rue_mohr: and they are a perfect size match to what came out
04:39 AM rue_mohr: so they must have installed them backwards
04:40 AM rue_mohr: I approached them today and they said they aren't willing to put another set on, but they found a deeper cover for the set they installed wrong
04:40 AM rue_mohr: to make them not rub
04:40 AM rue_mohr: like ARG
04:42 AM zhanx: wtf
04:43 AM rue_mohr: yea
04:43 AM rue_mohr: that gear is designed with a face tahts meant to bear against the thrust plate
04:44 AM zhanx: the face as the timing markers
04:45 AM rue_mohr: its got a hub
04:45 AM zhanx: dude i could have video called you to walk you through this and fix it at this point
04:45 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Hmmm. I could potentially get the PCA9685 to do the horizontal and vertical sync pulses
04:45 AM Jak_o_Shadows: not sure why I would
04:45 AM Jak_o_Shadows: but maybe
04:47 AM rue_mohr: zhanx,
04:47 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1140716.jpg
04:47 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1140717.jpg
04:47 AM rue_mohr: its the same brand, same p/n as they installed
04:48 AM rue_mohr: and its an exact size match for the one that came out
04:49 AM zhanx: see that p?
04:49 AM rue_mohr: I see the mark yea
04:49 AM rue_mohr: for aligning the teeth
04:49 AM zhanx: that is part of it yes
04:49 AM rue_mohr: and its cupped
04:49 AM rue_mohr: aka, one way only
04:49 AM zhanx: should be another mark and yes
04:50 AM rue_mohr: if they aligned the marks and put the gears on backwards, they might explain the timing issue
04:50 AM zhanx: are the marks on the backside? never seen that
04:50 AM zhanx: but i agree with you
04:51 AM rue_mohr: only marked on one side
04:51 AM zhanx: when you going back there
04:51 AM rue_mohr: I'm not sure what to do
04:52 AM zhanx: call me on video
04:52 AM zhanx: when you are there
04:52 AM rue_mohr: they are gonna force me to hard-confront them
04:52 AM zhanx: yep, and you can let me do that if needed
04:52 AM rue_mohr: well, one of the guys at work is a journeymen mechanic who worked for them
04:52 AM rue_mohr: even he's calling wtf on all this
04:52 AM zhanx: will pm
05:23 AM Jak_o_Shadows: My porches aren't right.
05:23 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Gonna have to mess with registers more directly I think - the loc3 functions are adding about 2us
05:30 AM rue_mohr: I can only ponder how easy it would be on an fpga
05:30 AM Jak_o_Shadows: aha
05:30 AM rue_mohr: :)
05:30 AM Jak_o_Shadows: It's doable on this I really think
05:30 AM Jak_o_Shadows: and it's a good learning exercise
05:30 AM rue_mohr: well, you have a master counter, and everything comes off it
05:34 AM Jak_o_Shadows: TBH, that's kinda similar to how you do it on the stm as well
05:35 AM Jak_o_Shadows: through, i'm currently looking at the disassembly to see how much cruft is in there
05:35 AM rue_mohr: arm is awefull
06:19 PM rue_shop1: assmebler wise
06:20 PM Tom_L: you still playin with arm?
06:28 PM rue_shop1: yes, its my alternative to avr
06:28 PM rue_shop1: tho it looks like china started making m328 knockoffs
06:28 PM rue_shop1: the idea, is that arm is quite a future safe move
06:28 PM rue_shop1: as almost everything is arm
06:29 PM veverak: yup
06:33 PM Tom_L: kindof a bitch to configure though
06:34 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Tom_L, yeeeeep
06:34 PM Jak_o_Shadows: Also, the blue pill STM32's are cheeap
06:36 PM chisight: those clone 328s look pretty sweet though. the added dac is nice and all the boards seem to use the acm driverless usb serial chips.
06:36 PM logb0t_ is now known as logb0t
06:37 PM veverak: bluepills are nice?
06:37 PM veverak: made board recently based on the F103
06:37 PM veverak: realized they sell G4 for similar price
06:37 PM veverak: WITH MUCH MORE POWA
06:40 PM deshipu: avrs are much overpriced, compared to the arms for similar price
06:40 PM chisight: lol, bluepills are iffy. some are better than others. the stm32 is a fine series but the build quality is highly variable.
06:40 PM veverak: chisight: quality of china clones or originals? :)
06:41 PM chisight: that's no reflection on stm, it's on the cruddy china build blue pill.
06:41 PM chisight: veverak: there is an "original"? lol, never heard of such a thing.
06:42 PM veverak: chisight: there are clones and there are those made by STM
06:43 PM chisight: oh, didn't know that stm made a bluepill format board, i'd only seen their much larger boards, i think it's "discovery" but i could be thinking someone else there.
06:44 PM chisight: if stm still makes a bluepill format board (a bit bigger than an arduino nano size) then i'm sure it's first rate.
06:45 PM chisight: i'm also sure it sells for something outside my ideal about $3 price range.
06:46 PM rue_shop1: I only been using blue pill so far
06:47 PM chisight: china build, or this (new to me) stm made one?
06:47 PM rue_shop1: I get the china ones
06:48 PM rue_shop1: the chips look origional enough, and the rest is just a carrier board
06:48 PM rue_shop1: I dont care if I'm working with genuine parts
06:48 PM rue_shop1: I just care if they work
06:48 PM rue_shop1: and so far, all the blue pill baords work just fine
06:48 PM rue_shop1: even is definitly knockoff m328 board works fine
06:48 PM chisight: i'm sure the chips are original. there are many reports of bad markings, poorly mounted usb connectors, incorrect resistors, etc.
06:49 PM rue_shop1: there isn't even a label on the uC
06:49 PM rue_shop1: no problems yet
06:49 PM rue_shop1: for mwe
06:50 PM chisight: "blue pill" isn't the arduino nano or any blue board that isn't a Stm32F103C8T6. it's a very specific model.
06:55 PM veverak: chisight: was speaking only of the chip
06:55 PM veverak: bluepill I am not sure stm makes
06:55 PM veverak: but it has stm32 nucelos with arduino nano pinout
06:55 PM chisight: nucelos, that's the one i was forgetting.
06:56 PM chisight: i've only seen the much larger nucelos boards with an stm32 on them. none in the "blue pill" format which is something specific.
06:56 PM veverak: STM32L432KC
06:56 PM veverak: using this
06:56 PM veverak: :)
06:56 PM veverak: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fos.mbed.com%2Fmedia%2Fuploads%2Fbcostm%2Fnucleo_l432kc_2017_10_09.png&f=1&nofb=1
06:57 PM chisight: guessing thats an m4 which is a much better board.
06:57 PM veverak: yup
06:57 PM veverak: POWA
06:57 PM chisight: definitely not a blue pill.
06:57 PM deshipu: and still cheaper than atmega328p ripoffs
06:58 PM chisight: i remember them holding sales on their nucelos modules for around $15.
06:59 PM rue_shop1: stm does not make blue pill its a board someone made in the arduino like ways that is a good breakout carrier for the stm32F103
06:59 PM chisight: deshipu: i assume you mean bang for buck since the "ripoff" atmega328p clones with the DAC are under $2. they're just not even close to as capable as any stm32.
06:59 PM rue_shop1: stm makes a huge clunky thing thats expensive
07:00 PM rue_shop1: heh, and a smaller one now?
07:00 PM rue_shop1: huh
07:00 PM rue_shop1: looks like they are learning and trying to cash in
07:00 PM chisight: that image looks fairly small. looks pretty nice. but probably not in the price range i stay to.
07:01 PM deshipu: chisight: that's the chinese clones, the "original" boards go for 20x that
07:01 PM veverak: guys
07:01 PM veverak: that small nucelo exists for 2 years now?
07:01 PM deshipu: chisight: I mean all those kickstarter "arduino-compatible educational" junk
07:02 PM deshipu: veverak: yeah, it's old
07:02 PM chisight: deshipu: there are no "originals" of the atmega328p clones. i'm talking the LGT8F328P boards. not made by microchip at all.
07:04 PM chisight: unless you consider "logicgreen" to be "original", afaik they were the first to start putting the LGT8F328P on dev boards and selling them en bulk.
07:04 PM deshipu: chisight: I'm talking about original UNO versus original NUCLEO-L432KC
07:05 PM chisight: deshipu: yeah, very different animals.
07:05 PM chisight: that NUCLEO-L432KC does look nice but i'm expecting it's not even close to $3.
07:05 PM deshipu: chisight: even ignoring the fact that the uno is 1000x less powerful and 200x times harder to use
07:06 PM deshipu: chisight: and neither is the UNO
07:07 PM chisight: bang for the buck is a whole different topic. $ per board is one metric. $ per unit computing power is a whole different one and 10000% agreed that the atmega328p and it's clones are not even close to competitive in the 2nd category even if they do ok in the first.
07:07 PM deshipu: chisight: UNO loses even if you treat the boards as equal
07:07 PM rue_shop2: No new processors, I'm NOT gonna jump on every bandwagon that comes along
07:08 PM rue_shop2: it takes too long to set up for a new processor
07:08 PM rue_shop2: and unlike everyone else in the world, I keep my projects around for years
07:08 PM rue_shop2: I dont just make a project and throw out everything to do with it a year later
07:08 PM chisight: deshipu: i don't use the uno, so don't know about that. but the nano using the atmega328p has a decent cost per board even if it sucks in cost per unit computing power.
07:08 PM Tom_L: just stick with fpga and you can synthesize any processor ya want!
07:08 PM rue_shop2: heh
07:09 PM deshipu: rue_shop2: yeah, what's wrong with using 4040 for everything
07:09 PM rue_shop2: I dont know if the fpga models are just fads tho
07:09 PM deshipu: chisight: the original?
07:09 PM chisight: what about the 4004?
07:09 PM chisight: deshipu: no, the $2 clones.
07:09 PM deshipu: chisight: or are you comparing a chinese clone to the orginial stm board?
07:09 PM deshipu: chisight: then compare properly
07:10 PM chisight: deshipu: not comparing anything to orginial stm boards ever. i've never owned an original stm board and likely never will.
07:10 PM chisight: i am comparing properly, clone to clone.
07:10 PM deshipu: chisight: that's such a shame, because this is exactly what we have been discussing here for the last 15 minutes
07:10 PM deshipu: chisight: that nucleo board is not a clone,
07:11 PM deshipu: chisight: you get the original, 10000x better than UNO, for $10
07:11 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, just playing with the fpga a bit more now
07:11 PM chisight: we've been talking about multiple boards. the very first was the bluepill, a chinese clone with an original Stm32F103C8T6 on it.
07:11 PM Tom_L: rue_shop2, they add new features to them
07:11 PM deshipu: chisight: an UNO kit costs over $100
07:12 PM deshipu: chisight: the bluepill comes at $2, so what's your problem?
07:12 PM chisight: deshipu: why would anyone ever pay $100 for an uno? that's absurd?
07:12 PM rue_shop2: (usd)
07:12 PM deshipu: chisight: they sell quite a few of them
07:12 PM chisight: ok, well not to me.
07:12 PM deshipu: chisight: maybe go and ask them
07:13 PM deshipu: it might have something to do with it not falling apart while taking out of the box
07:13 PM chisight: lol
07:13 PM deshipu: (or having a box in the first place)
07:13 PM deshipu: and also not being made out of Chernobyl rejects
07:14 PM chisight: i was actually surprised with the last batch of atmega328p based nanos, they did come in a box. first time ever.
07:14 PM mumptai: many the chinese clones have great variability with quality, not great for beginners
07:14 PM mumptai: +of
07:15 PM deshipu: it's a lottery
07:15 PM rue_shop2: the only issues I'v had are with usb-serial converters
07:15 PM rue_shop2: and from what I can tell, I keep overloading the usb chips in backfeeding oops'
07:15 PM mumptai: i usually advice against it for that reason, if people are not comfortable fixing it
07:16 PM rue_shop2: nothing like asking a usb chip to backfeed a computer thats off
07:16 PM chisight: i've actually not been able to blow up a chinese nano clone yet. i've blown the power select diode and replaced it but never the whole board. still have yet to have a single out of box failure nor a single unrepairable failure on a chinese nano clone ever.
07:16 PM mumptai: usb c might actually do that?
07:17 PM rue_shop2: I only started buying arduino boards because I could buy a whole m328 knockoff board for less than a genuine avr chip itself
07:18 PM chisight: same here. i was looking at just buying the avr like i used to do with the pic 16f series. it wasn't cost effective at the time.
07:19 PM mumptai: i usually only use arduino board if i can use it with someone else's finished/published application. i'm not so fond of the whole sw portion of arduino, but can tolerate it if i can handle it as a black-box
07:20 PM chisight: entirely agree, it's not a wonderful platform.
07:20 PM chisight: but dang the per board cost on clones is low.
07:20 PM deshipu: it's fine for quick proof of concept stuff, in the end you rewrite it all in plain C or assembly anyways
07:20 PM chisight: ^^^ 100%
07:21 PM deshipu: chisight: it's normal
07:21 PM deshipu: chisight: pretty much any clone boards are cheap these days
07:21 PM deshipu: the avrs were the first to go cheap, but now it's pretty much anything
07:21 PM mumptai: but to use it as temperature logger, or to drive some ws2812, it just gets the job done (very) quickly
07:21 PM veverak: well
07:21 PM veverak: finally got decent model for movement plan execution
07:21 PM veverak: each item of the plan... is state machine
07:21 PM veverak: :/
07:22 PM deshipu: veverak: you need a stack of state machines now \o/
07:22 PM mumptai: the stm32 nucleo stuff is a lot nicer, also due to decent compiler support and debugging with swd and gdb
07:22 PM deshipu: swd is really nice
07:23 PM veverak: deshipu: literally
07:23 PM veverak: deshipu: plan is a list of "which state machine use and data for it"
07:23 PM chisight: stm32 blue pill from china gets the same features too. the stm32 is just overall a much nicer chip but at a slight premium per board. way worth it most of the time.
07:23 PM deshipu: veverak: and then build a state machine that has stacks of state machines as states
07:23 PM mumptai: whats you favorite style to build FSMs?
07:24 PM deshipu: mumptai: hand-coded recursive descent :D
07:24 PM mumptai: s/you/your/
07:24 PM veverak: mumptai: std::variant
07:24 PM veverak: and lambda matching
07:25 PM mumptai: what is lambda matching, is there a good example for it?
07:26 PM veverak: https://paste.vpsfree.cz/CQGPu_tH/
07:26 PM veverak: just writing this code
07:26 PM veverak: which uses same mechanism
07:26 PM veverak: joint_tasks_variant is a variant of different tasks
07:26 PM veverak: lines 49-58 executes lambda based on whcih task is present in the joint_tasks_variant
07:27 PM veverak: my state machines work in same way
07:27 PM veverak: (std::variant is just fancy union{}; )
07:31 PM mumptai: mhmm, looks more like a sequencer to me
07:31 PM mumptai: if i get the idea correctly
07:31 PM veverak: sequencer?
07:33 PM rue_shop1: Tom_L, zhanx
07:33 PM rue_shop1: so, a machinist I was talking to pointed something out that I thought of but didn't think to say yet
07:34 PM rue_shop1: if that gear is on backwards, so its sticking out rather than in, then its not meshing with the crank gear properly
07:34 PM rue_shop1: like, its offset
07:34 PM veverak: mumptai: this just executes plan, it's just using same code mechanism
07:34 PM zhanx: thats a given
07:34 PM rue_shop1: yea
07:34 PM veverak: mumptai: you have uniona of structures representing state, you execute lambda function based on which state is in
07:34 PM mumptai: and the elements in the vector is the plan
07:34 PM veverak: yup
07:35 PM rue_shop1: the timing marks wouldn't have worked to align them, so I wonder how the hell they got it as close as they did
07:35 PM veverak: oh
07:35 PM veverak: here
07:35 PM veverak: hmm
07:35 PM zhanx: rue_shop1, plays out like this
07:35 PM zhanx: line it, up, go to lunch
07:35 PM zhanx: come back put the gear on wrong
07:35 PM veverak: mumptai: action_pack_state_machine is one step of plan, actions_ are actions to be executed in this step
07:35 PM rue_shop1: (I'm just counting the ways they boofed this)
07:36 PM zhanx: rue_shop1, too many ways
07:36 PM Tom_L: rue_shop1, so it was backwards?
07:37 PM rue_shop2: avr: I was paying $8 for an atmega32 CHIP, for $2.50 I was able to get a m328 on a carrier (china)
07:37 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, its got to be, they swore it was set to depth
07:37 PM rue_shop2: I dont think they were lieing
07:37 PM rue_shop2: they just didn't point out its on backwards
07:37 PM Tom_L: who's working on it now?
07:37 PM rue_shop2: OR, truely embarrasing, they still dont know
07:38 PM rue_shop2: nobody, I'm pondering facts
07:38 PM rue_shop2: I dont know, even if they are willing to fix it properly, if I want them to
07:39 PM Tom_L: you should get a refund
07:39 PM rue_shop2: yup
07:39 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, fpga: https://paste.debian.net/1124697/
07:39 PM rue_shop2: FSM
07:40 PM Tom_L: whoever fixes it, make sure they take pics BEFORE they remove the gears
07:40 PM rue_shop2: totally
07:40 PM Tom_L: is that the same FSM?
07:41 PM rue_shop2: its the whole thing this time tho
07:41 PM rue_shop2: my pwm is mixed in there
07:41 PM Tom_L: in fact they should take pics every step of the way. i'd explain to whoever gets it what happened and why you need the pics
07:42 PM rue_shop2: yea, cause I might have to throw a lawyer at it
07:42 PM Tom_L: damages plus court and attorney costs
07:43 PM rue_shop2: lets hope it doesn't get to that
07:43 PM Tom_L: they will likely try to re'do it
07:43 PM rue_shop2: yea, do I want them to?
07:44 PM Tom_L: i'd tell them you want someone to oversee the work
07:44 PM rue_shop2: like, do I want them to even ever touch my truck again?
07:44 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't
07:44 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, in that code, see the FSMLUT module?
07:45 PM rue_shop2: OP = output FBO = feedback out, FBI = feedback in, I = inputs
07:45 PM Tom_L: oh hell, i didn't scroll far enough :D
07:45 PM rue_shop2: :)
07:46 PM rue_shop2: sorry I ahve two things going there, the pwm and the fsm
07:46 PM Tom_L: it doesn't mind
07:46 PM rue_shop2: right now I'v locked it to input 0
07:47 PM rue_shop2: its hard to read cause of the overhead in the number format
07:47 PM rue_shop2: I wonder if they have macro provision in verilog
07:49 PM rue_shop2: I think I have to walk in there with the new gears and put them on the spot
07:56 PM Tom_L: i'd tell them you want to talk to the main service manager, the mechanic and the GM of that branch
07:56 PM rue_shop2: I'v talked to one of the mechanics who supposedly partly worked on it
07:56 PM Tom_L: you might have your mech friend with you
07:56 PM rue_shop2: he's the one who said they did NOT want to redo it after I told them I got the right gears
07:57 PM Tom_L: why not?
07:57 PM rue_shop2: "so much work"
07:57 PM rue_shop2: :/
07:57 PM rue_shop2: which is lame if they know they got it all wrong
07:57 PM Tom_L: so refund my money and i'll take it to a real mechanic then...
07:58 PM rue_shop2: yea
07:58 PM rue_shop2: thats how I'm feeling
07:58 PM Tom_L: don't let them push you around just because they're a 16bay shop
07:58 PM rue_shop2: no
07:58 PM rue_shop2: I took it to them to get backed work
07:59 PM rue_shop2: that was done right
07:59 PM Tom_L: if they want to 'pull it in' to look at it, tell them you want to be there when they take it apart
08:00 PM rue_shop2: agreed
08:01 PM Tom_L: you told me the other day they said they would make it right
08:01 PM rue_shop1: yea, but they are insisting on fixing it by putting on a larger cover
08:01 PM Tom_L: so far they haven't lived up to their end of the deal
08:01 PM rue_shop1: that wont rub on the gears that are on wrong
08:02 PM Tom_L: insist on using genuine GM parts ONLY
08:02 PM Tom_L: explain that's why you took it to them
08:02 PM rue_mohr: well
08:02 PM rue_mohr: I said I was fine with them using napa parts
08:03 PM rue_mohr: and I know the gears they put in ARE the right size
08:03 PM Tom_L: napa is good
08:03 PM rue_mohr: I dont think they were napa gears
08:03 PM Tom_L: why?
08:03 PM rue_mohr: well, usually napa parts are in a box with a napa label
08:04 PM rue_mohr: did I show you the image of the two boxes?
08:04 PM Tom_L: no
08:04 PM rue_mohr: oooh
08:04 PM rue_mohr: 1 min
08:07 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1140720.jpg
08:07 PM rue_mohr: so, on the right, the box they gave me the old gears in
08:08 PM rue_mohr: on the left, the box I got from the local auto shop (who told me GM does not buy from)
08:08 PM rue_mohr: zhanx, ^^
08:09 PM Tom_L: well napa doesn't make their own parts but packages them from other vendors
08:09 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:09 PM rue_mohr: but it seems they ALWAYS come in a box with the yellow napa logo
08:11 PM Tom_L: the outcome will be interesting for sure
08:11 PM rue_mohr: I didn't do it myself so it would just be done and I wouldn't have to deal with it
08:11 PM Tom_L: and next time?
08:12 PM rue_mohr: granted, if I were trying to do it myself, I'd have rods and lifters and manifolds everywhere right now
08:12 PM Tom_L: probably
08:12 PM rue_mohr: I have a shop I DO trust
08:12 PM rue_mohr: they ahve done lots of good work for me
08:12 PM Tom_L: but you would have pulled the cam to change the gear
08:12 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:12 PM rue_mohr: which is a pig of a job
08:12 PM Tom_L: so why did you change and not go with them this time?
08:13 PM rue_mohr: honestly half of it was me not wanting to tie up one of the small shops with a truck that was going to take a while to fix
08:13 PM rue_mohr: you have to tear it down, work out a parts list, order them all, (store the truck ) and put them all in when parts come in
08:13 PM Tom_L: they could push it outside while they waited for parts
08:14 PM rue_mohr: for a 2 bay shop, thats brutal
08:14 PM Tom_L: that's what we used to do way back when
08:14 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:14 PM rue_mohr: I hated that with electronics repairs
08:14 PM rue_mohr: "ugh, I dont have that part, I gotta wait to go into town and get it"
08:14 PM Tom_L: it's to be expected in a small shop
08:15 PM rue_mohr: it shouldn't have mattered
08:15 PM rue_mohr: that should totally be a normal procedure for a shop like that
08:15 PM Tom_L: i've never had a good experience with a dealer shop
08:15 PM mumptai: interesting, it just took me 3h to find a stupid mistake in this: https://paste.vpsfree.cz/gG7w8cgq/
08:16 PM Tom_L: what few i've had
08:17 PM rue_mohr: mumptai, what is that?
08:17 PM mumptai: the fine configuration tool turned on a AHBROM that tries to map address 0x0, as also does the SPIM
08:17 PM mumptai: just my slight frustration
08:18 PM rue_mohr: memory controller doesn't need to control the rom eh?
08:18 PM mumptai: that it the output of grmon3 showing the configuration of the SoC
08:19 PM rue_mohr: whats between 00100000 and 00400000 ?
08:19 PM mumptai: ahbrom is actually really useful for simulations, but not real systems
08:19 PM rue_mohr: and are those addresses inclusive?
08:19 PM rue_mohr: as, they lap
08:20 PM mumptai: that is the area that would be served by the spim
08:20 PM mumptai: while 0 to 0x100000 would be an uninitalized rom, that got enabled by accident
08:21 PM rue_mohr: bit hard to tell whe I'm not sure what I'm looking at
08:21 PM rue_mohr: the address do seem out of whack
08:21 PM rue_mohr: but there are systems stacked there
08:21 PM rue_mohr: like the bridge to the memory, which makes it a bit hard to tell
08:21 PM mumptai: its WRONG
08:22 PM rue_mohr: mctrl0 European Space Agency LEON2 Memory Controller
08:22 PM rue_mohr: AHB: 40000000 - 80000000
08:22 PM rue_mohr: the bridge doesn't cover that address range
08:23 PM mumptai: the bridge is only from ahb to apb
08:23 PM rue_mohr: donno what those are
08:24 PM mumptai: the old AMBA busses
08:25 PM mumptai: APB is simple in the sense that it is only used for single control and status registers
08:25 PM mumptai: AHB allows for multiple masters, bursts and many other featrues
08:26 PM rue_mohr: AMBA ? :)
08:26 PM rue_mohr: serial memory busses
08:26 PM rue_mohr: like state controlled memory isn't bad enough
08:29 PM mumptai: serial? not really
08:31 PM mumptai: https://paste.vpsfree.cz/f23CBZUv/ <--- this is how should look like, and this actually works
08:38 PM rue_mohr: huh
08:38 PM rue_mohr: on all my other issues
08:38 PM rue_mohr: I lost my kichen knife today
08:39 PM Tom_L: that is _REAL_ cause for concern...
08:39 PM rue_mohr: really confusing, I ws going to sharpen it, and the stone was all dull, so I took it to the sand blaster and roughed it up
08:39 PM rue_mohr: and when I came back, there was no knife
08:39 PM rue_mohr: I'v looked over the area 3 times now, no knife
08:41 PM rue_mohr: found!
08:42 PM rue_mohr: I put it in the knife drawr, which is odd, cause its my special sharp one I keep hidden from everyone
08:42 PM rue_mohr: https://www.instructables.com/id/ATtinyPowerMeter/
08:43 PM Tom_L: that's what happens when you put things away
08:43 PM rue_mohr: thats not the away for it
08:44 PM rue_mohr: its supposed to be in the cuppboard, tucked between the noodles
08:44 PM rue_mohr: :)
08:47 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/Power_Meter.jpg
08:47 PM Tom_L: have you seen that one on aliexpress?
08:47 PM rue_mohr: ah yes
08:47 PM rue_mohr: shunt or direct?
08:48 PM Tom_L: shunt i think
08:48 PM rue_mohr: k
08:48 PM rue_mohr: didnt' come with it?
08:48 PM Tom_L: you see what you get
08:48 PM Tom_L: it's built in if it's there
08:48 PM rue_mohr: k
08:48 PM rue_mohr: some have an external shunt
08:48 PM Tom_L: i think the directions may have mentioned it, don't recall
08:49 PM Tom_L: still haven't wired it up
08:49 PM Tom_L: i got it for my spindle
08:49 PM Tom_L: kindof hesitant to use it now
08:50 PM rue_shop1: its built in on some, and they might have been generic instructions
08:50 PM rue_shop1: what current was it rated for?
08:50 PM rue_shop1: :) china "rated" hehe
08:50 PM Tom_L: i forget
08:50 PM rue_shop1: can you still get to the listing?
08:51 PM rue_shop1: ali never forgets
08:52 PM Tom_L: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32714743298.html
08:52 PM Tom_L: probably that one
08:52 PM Tom_L: 20A
08:53 PM rue_shop1: wow built in shunt then
08:53 PM rue_shop1: k
08:53 PM rue_shop1: whats your fuse rated at these days for that spindle?
08:53 PM Tom_L: iirc i put a 5A in it
08:54 PM rue_shop1: k, your good
08:54 PM rue_shop1: it should be fine up to 10A
08:54 PM Tom_L: i've popped it a few times
08:54 PM Tom_L: not normally
08:54 PM rue_shop1: I mean the meter
08:55 PM Tom_L: the reason i haven't hooked it up is it takes a bit for it to start up and i'd have it connected to the spindle on command in lcnc
08:56 PM Tom_L: so it needs to be 'alive' right away
08:56 PM rue_shop1: so?
08:56 PM rue_shop1: your motor controller takes DC in, right?
08:57 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure if the spindle would come on right away delaying and probably breaking a bit
08:57 PM Tom_L: motor controller is AC mains in
08:57 PM Tom_L: that's why it has to be connected to it's output at the motor
08:58 PM Tom_L: max v is 100v on that meter
08:59 PM rue_shop1: the meter will conduct right away
08:59 PM rue_shop1: "100V" probably good to 40
08:59 PM Tom_L: i may hook it up if it ever warms up
08:59 PM Tom_L: the motor is 90v DC
08:59 PM rue_shop1: yea
08:59 PM Tom_L: and i'm also concerned about back emf
08:59 PM rue_shop1: bets the regulator in the meter is rated to 36V with a series resistor
08:59 PM Tom_L: shorting the meter
09:00 PM rue_shop1: and its not wattage rated up to that 36
09:00 PM rue_shop1: the meter connects + straight thru
09:00 PM rue_shop1: the - goes thru the shunt
09:00 PM rue_shop1: which is a ~0.75" peice of ~12AWG wire
09:01 PM rue_shop1: the meter has some awefull regulator off the + for its power
09:01 PM rue_shop1: take a look
09:01 PM rue_shop1: just give it a light squeeze, it'll pop right apart
09:01 PM rue_shop1: (the back pops off)
09:01 PM rue_shop1: the guts are anchored up against the front, but you can see the important stuff
09:02 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure where i put it right now :)
09:02 PM rue_shop1: haha
09:02 PM Tom_L: i set it aside for a while
09:03 PM rue_shop1: I'm trying to clear space to find that screen for that little t85 project
11:04 PM rue_shop1: the phase measurement of the scope is a bit off
11:06 PM rue_shop1: and I cant seem to use the fft with the signal gens white noise to get a picture of a filter responce
11:11 PM Tom_L: hmm
11:24 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, on the bright side, if I'd gotten to taking a trip into the states to see yall, I'd really have been up the creek!