#robotics Logs
Jan 07 2019
#robotics Calendar
12:00 AM powderedtoastman: Well, I've been looking at pytorch, going to try and massively optimize it
12:04 AM * rue_shop1 shuts down the shop
12:28 AM rue_mohr: ok, I think my next goal is to generate a library for delta robots, and then use it to build a 3d force feedback pen
07:17 AM deshipu: my favorite robotics course has now a page: http://underactuated.mit.edu/underactuated.html
09:40 AM veverak: fu me
09:40 AM veverak: still has a bug in the code
09:58 AM deshipu: more than one, I'm sure
09:59 AM veverak: this one is pissing me off
09:59 AM veverak: one of those in part of the code that worked before perfectly
10:01 AM deshipu: often they end up being in a completely different place
10:25 AM veverak: hmm
10:26 AM veverak: VIM plugin that shows what changed from last commit
10:26 AM veverak: is nice
10:26 AM veverak: (on the left column, where numbers are)
10:35 AM veverak: it works
10:35 AM veverak: no assert fired
10:35 AM veverak: for 15 minutes
10:35 AM veverak: on O3
10:35 AM veverak: so it's either terribly slow or stuck
10:41 AM veverak: ah
10:41 AM veverak: just terribly slow
11:05 AM veverak: hmm
11:05 AM veverak: I've ideas about making it faster
12:36 PM X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
01:35 PM veverak: ideas implemented... with new bugs
02:20 PM rue_shop1: veverak, from eagle, are you sure I can mill a pcb?
02:20 PM veverak: yup
02:20 PM veverak: eagle even has plugin for that somewhere on the internetz
02:20 PM veverak: generates gcode
02:20 PM rue_shop1: but your using kicad?
02:20 PM veverak: yup, uses same stuff
02:20 PM veverak: but without fancy plugin
02:20 PM veverak: :(
02:20 PM veverak: (plugin for eagle is just something that calls the pcb_to_gcode)
02:21 PM veverak: uses gerber files as input, so you can use whatever you want
02:22 PM rue_shop1: aaah but I have to make gerber, and thats not easy
02:22 PM veverak: the plugins does that
02:23 PM rue_shop1: oh
02:23 PM veverak: I think
02:23 PM veverak: rue_shop1: I used eagle with the plugin before
02:23 PM veverak: than I switched to kicad
02:23 PM rue_shop1: Filename: pool/main/k/kicad/kicad_4.0.5+dfsg1-4_i386.deb
02:24 PM rue_shop1: sound new enough?
02:25 PM veverak: nope
02:25 PM veverak: using 5
02:25 PM veverak: they made a lots of good changes for 5
02:25 PM veverak: usabillity++
02:25 PM rue_shop1: damn
02:25 PM rue_shop1: does it compile ok?
02:26 PM veverak: dunno
02:26 PM veverak: did not have to
02:26 PM veverak: arch got 5.0.1
02:26 PM veverak: :)
02:29 PM rue_shop1: but this is debian
03:04 PM deshipu: everybody knows that only nightlies are usable
03:09 PM polprog: rue_shop1: hows your scanner project going on
03:45 PM veverak: full recompile 8 minutes
03:45 PM veverak: fu me
03:45 PM deshipu: C++?
03:46 PM veverak: yup
03:46 PM veverak: hmm
03:46 PM veverak: what was the thing
03:46 PM veverak: cloc!
03:47 PM deshipu: that's nothing, try Rust with link-time optimization enabled
03:47 PM veverak: 11k lines of code
03:47 PM veverak: deshipu: haha
03:47 PM veverak: turned that off with C++
03:47 PM veverak: afaik clang does LOE too
03:47 PM veverak: ...
03:47 PM veverak: LTO
03:47 PM veverak: :)
03:48 PM deshipu: LTO is great, makes the binaries really small
03:48 PM veverak: in a way, where it compiles the files, merges them together and executes optimizations passed on the entire thing at once
03:48 PM veverak: compile_time_+++++++++++++
03:48 PM veverak: deshipu: thought so
03:48 PM veverak: thing is
03:48 PM veverak: I started to use a trick how to reduce compile time
03:48 PM veverak: becuase it's high because of templates (no shit sherlock)
03:48 PM veverak: so, I use the trick with "extern template Foo<MyT>;"
03:49 PM veverak: ^^ this tempalte won't be instantiated
03:49 PM veverak: in any unit
03:49 PM veverak: unles the one where the statement is missing
03:49 PM polprog: reverse engineers hate him
03:49 PM veverak: so, big ass templated code sequences have their .cpp file that generates them
03:49 PM veverak: fast compilation when I develop part of the app
03:50 PM veverak: full recompile slow has hell
03:50 PM veverak: :)
03:50 PM deshipu: I thought that by now everyone agreed that templates were a bad idea?
03:52 PM ldlework: ..no
03:53 PM veverak: wat
03:53 PM * veverak got his full WTF look in the eyes
03:54 PM deshipu: C++ is the reason why Go has no generics
03:54 PM ldlework: That is not true..
03:54 PM deshipu: it has generics?
03:55 PM ldlework: No..
03:55 PM veverak: templates are _the_ way for type safety mechanics and polymorphism :)
03:55 PM ldlework: "go has no generics" is the object of your statement
03:56 PM ldlework: the predicate of your statement is "is not the reason"
03:56 PM ldlework: wtf..
03:57 PM ldlework: if someone says "that's not true" they probably mean the whole proposition you stated is false, rather than just some partial description term
03:58 PM ldlework: anyway, C++ is not "the reason Go lacks generics", and the creators of Golang have written a lot about why they did not include it
04:00 PM deshipu: yes, and it's all lessons from using templates in C++
04:01 PM ldlework: they refer to their C++ experience, but some of them were Java programmers too
04:01 PM veverak: well
04:01 PM deshipu: ah, yes
04:01 PM veverak: let's agree to disagree
04:01 PM * veverak uses C++ because of templates
04:02 PM ldlework: i'm only balking that "C++" isn't a maximal description of how the golang creators have reasoned about generics in golang that's all
04:02 PM deshipu: ldlework: ok, sorry, change "the reason" to "a reason"
04:02 PM ldlework: they have also mentioned, for example, that it makes the language more complicated and harder to maintain, etc
04:02 PM ldlework: sure
04:02 PM veverak: meantime https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50Pcs-High-quality-MR106ZZ-L-1060ZZ-ball-bearing-6x10x3-deep-groove-ball-bearing-free-shipping/32512406560.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.2b802e0emGDevr
04:02 PM veverak: have you used these?
04:02 PM deshipu: never!
04:03 PM deshipu: I don't use bearings, too expensive
04:03 PM deshipu: I just hang everything directly on the servo shafts!
04:04 PM veverak: 0.25$ piece
04:04 PM veverak: -> "too expensive"
04:04 PM veverak: #confusedLook
04:04 PM veverak: deshipu: they are cheap as fuck
04:04 PM veverak: hence the question
04:04 PM veverak: and interest in them
04:04 PM veverak: :)
04:05 PM deshipu: they are cheap for bearings
04:05 PM deshipu: but bearings generally are expensive
04:05 PM veverak: yup
04:05 PM deshipu: compare them to, say, bolts
04:06 PM veverak: thing is
04:06 PM veverak: I want this mechanism for rc boat
04:06 PM veverak: ehmm
04:06 PM veverak: arm with a rope and hook
04:06 PM veverak: and winch for the rope
04:07 PM veverak: those cheap ass bearings could be ideal for the winch
04:07 PM deshipu: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Metal-Steel-Wired-Automatic-Simulated-Winch-with-Switch-for-1-10-JEEP-CC01-Axial-SCX10-RC4WD/32946396856.html
04:08 PM veverak: yeah
04:08 PM veverak: I want to make something like this
04:09 PM deshipu: it's already made :)
04:09 PM veverak: I want to make it
04:09 PM veverak: and this does not seem waterproof
04:09 PM veverak: :)
04:10 PM deshipu: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/hot-Metal-Steel-Wired-Automatic-Simulated-Winch-with-Switch-for-1-10-Traxxas-HSP-Redcat-HPI/32923759488.html
04:10 PM deshipu: here's a better one
04:11 PM veverak: still want to build it
04:12 PM veverak: except for the hook itself
04:12 PM veverak: deshipu: but thanks, they look like a good inspiration
04:19 PM ldlework: deshipu: sorry about before
04:23 PM deshipu: ldlework: you were right
04:23 PM ldlework: yeah but i was also a dick, so sorry about that
04:23 PM deshipu: and I do tent to diss c++ too much
04:23 PM deshipu: tend*
04:23 PM veverak: -_-
04:23 PM veverak: ** angry look **
04:24 PM * veverak just notes that he shall not be taken seriously in flamewars
04:24 PM deshipu: veverak: I think that's good?
04:24 PM deshipu: I mean, who takes flame wars seriously?
04:24 PM veverak: they are unfortunetly people that do
04:25 PM veverak: and not everybody realizes that I tend to troll a lot in such cases
04:25 PM veverak: and I actually try to make it obvious that it is trolling :)
04:25 PM deshipu: I'm trying to unlearn trolling
04:25 PM deshipu: it's not helpful
04:25 PM deshipu: but it's a deeply ingrained habit in me
04:25 PM veverak: hmm, I don't think it's bad
04:25 PM veverak: it's bad if you use it in serious situations
04:26 PM deshipu: it is, I had situations where it literally made good people hate me
04:26 PM deshipu: well, the problem with habits is that you don't exactly control when you use them
04:26 PM veverak: and here I am in an oppsoite situation :)
04:26 PM veverak: I think I should troll more
04:27 PM veverak: it has to be done right, but I think I don't do it enough
04:32 PM deshipu: I disagree
04:33 PM ldlework: you would
04:35 PM veverak: in spirit of this https://markmanson.net/being-an-asshole
04:35 PM veverak: deshipu: for some tried, I tried to be "not an asshole" in all situations and rather be silent than to pointlessly hurt anybody
04:35 PM veverak: after some time realized that it does not work
04:35 PM veverak: :)
04:36 PM deshipu: veverak: it's valuable to be able to be a dick on purpose, but it's very much not to simply *be* a dick
04:36 PM veverak: and there is a compromise, or a way of being an "asshole"/"troll" that works
04:36 PM veverak: deshipu: yeah
04:36 PM veverak: hence
04:36 PM veverak: "23:25:05 veverak │ it has to be done right, but I think I don't do it enough" << the part about "it has to be done right"
04:36 PM deshipu: it's basically just acting
04:36 PM deshipu: the mechanism for it is different
04:38 PM veverak: hmm
04:38 PM veverak: than it depends on what we consider being a "troll"
04:40 PM ldlework: you hang out under bridges collecting tolls
04:41 PM deshipu: troll is someone who habitually trolls, trolling is a fishing/conversation technique where you bait your opponent to keep them engaged in a conversation
04:43 PM deshipu: basically, it's when you try to make people talk just to see them talking, and you don't actually care about the topic
04:43 PM deshipu: you might care about "winning" the conversation, though
04:44 PM veverak: hmm
04:44 PM veverak: then we have different concepts
04:44 PM veverak: of what is troll
04:44 PM veverak: but it is possible that mine is not the "dictionary one"
04:44 PM veverak: anyway, gn! time to sleep
04:45 PM deshipu: night
04:56 PM veverak: one last thing!
04:56 PM veverak: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:24604/files
04:56 PM veverak: this shall test my motion planner
04:57 PM veverak: ;)
04:57 PM deshipu: isn't it a bit small?
04:59 PM veverak: it's a script generating it
04:59 PM veverak: will adjust size
10:43 PM rue_shop3: how the hell did the cat manage to lay on the keyboard of the computer running the 3d printer without screwing anything up!?
10:44 PM rue_shop3: ok, I think I can come up with an induction heating circuit for the filastruder and the plastic injector
10:44 PM rue_shop3: wonder if I have enough high temp wire for something like that
10:45 PM rue_shop3: magnet wire from 130c and up
10:46 PM rue_shop3: pla runs 200c, so hmm
10:48 PM rue_shop3: teflon or silicone wire
11:02 PM rue_mohr: hmm I wonder what wattage I'm after
11:02 PM rue_mohr: prolly about 500
11:02 PM rue_mohr: na, even like 300-400
11:03 PM rue_mohr: so at 12V
11:03 PM rue_mohr: 33A ok
11:03 PM rue_mohr: if from 190VDC
11:04 PM rue_mohr: 2A