#robotics Logs
Jan 06 2019
#robotics Calendar
02:55 AM mrdata||: https://i.redd.it/m01gn0cf3wr01.jpg
03:23 AM rue_mohr: hu?
04:53 AM flav0r: this seems like a decent deal
04:53 AM flav0r: https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z-B/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?v=7401
04:53 AM flav0r: open box
06:39 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
11:02 AM prasket: @X-Scale: a little late but I also saw that ROBOCON segment on NHK. It was pretty awesome. :)
12:34 PM X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
12:45 PM X-Scale: prasket: Indeed. I loved the speed, the precision, acceleration and decelaration rates of those Vietnam team robots.
02:17 PM rue_mohr: cool
02:25 PM rue_mohr: zhanx, the fan has failed twice on the new printer now
02:25 PM rue_mohr: }:\
02:26 PM rue_mohr: it was REALLY hard to get the plastic out of the head the first time
02:51 PM Tom_L: why do fans fail so frequently?
02:51 PM rue_mohr: bushings, dust
02:51 PM rue_mohr: this is why I want a water cooled print head
02:52 PM rue_mohr: and quieter
02:52 PM Tom_L: more drag
02:52 PM Tom_L: extra lines to the cooler
02:52 PM rue_mohr: 1/8"
02:52 PM Tom_L: fishtank tubing
02:52 PM rue_mohr: not much water reqd
02:52 PM rue_mohr: smaller
02:52 PM Tom_L: the air size
02:52 PM Tom_L: is about 1/16 id
02:53 PM rue_mohr: ...k, we have different stuff over here :)
02:53 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/etching/newtank1.jpg
02:53 PM Tom_L: that stuff
02:53 PM rue_mohr: no way lighter
02:54 PM rue_mohr: like the size they use for inkjet heads
03:04 PM Tom_L: probably harder to source
03:08 PM rue_mohr: I'v got a bunch of it
03:08 PM rue_mohr: to make it work I need to seal around the fins on the nozzel
03:09 PM rue_mohr: and duct
03:09 PM rue_mohr: actaully I bet heatshrink would do it
03:22 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/art/p1000587.jpg
04:09 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if fully understanding how the brain works is like a turring test for biology
05:22 PM deshipu: veverak: https://hackaday.io/project/163093-tiptap
05:24 PM rue_shop1: if _I_ cant stand on legs like that, I'd not ask a robot to
05:25 PM rue_shop1: nicely built, but its missing a few axies
05:36 PM deshipu: I'm sure you could stand on it after some practice
05:47 PM flav0r: hmm that reminds me
05:47 PM flav0r: i should make a better setup for etching
05:51 PM rue_shop3: hey yea
05:51 PM rue_shop3: what you doing now?
05:51 PM rue_shop3: I just got an amazon laminator }:)
05:52 PM durrf: amazon basics lawnmower
05:52 PM rue_shop3: hahaha
05:52 PM rue_shop3: I'v never bought a mower
05:52 PM rue_shop3: I just clean the carbs on the free ones
05:52 PM flav0r: oh right now i just etch in a plasic contained and agitagte it
05:52 PM flav0r: i just mean make something better int he sense of being more convenient to use
05:52 PM rue_shop3: no bubbler tank eh?
05:53 PM flav0r: never used one before
05:53 PM flav0r: but yeah that would be more convenient
05:53 PM rue_shop3: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/158_etchtank.jpg
05:53 PM rue_shop3: it leaked life a siv,
05:53 PM flav0r: well my quality is good
05:53 PM flav0r: jsut looking for convenience
05:53 PM rue_shop3: so I got a plastic serial container
05:54 PM rue_shop3: what etchant do you use?
05:54 PM flav0r: ferric chloride
05:54 PM rue_shop3: ooof, mess
05:54 PM rue_shop3: er, well VISIBLE mess
05:54 PM deshipu: at least non-lethal
05:54 PM deshipu: mostly
05:54 PM flav0r: i dont make a mess
05:55 PM flav0r: it strikes me as odd when i see how messy opeople get with that stuff
05:55 PM rue_shop3: I have ammonium persulfate and I made some of the self rejuvinating stuff
05:55 PM flav0r: like they have ferric chloride over every surface in their workshop !
05:55 PM rue_shop3: the ammon perl. isn't brown, so the mess in nice and hidden
05:55 PM flav0r: well the key is to NOT make a mess ;)
05:56 PM rue_shop3: yes
05:56 PM rue_shop3: ok, so
05:56 PM rue_shop3: what did you have in mind, may I suggest...
05:56 PM flav0r: just somethign where i can hang the board
05:56 PM flav0r: right now i just sit them in a horizontal container and agitate them
05:57 PM flav0r: so hanging it would be nicer
05:57 PM rue_shop3: https://www.londondrugs.com/rubbermaid-premium-modular-canister---5l/L7704059.html
05:57 PM rue_shop3: dunno if that link works?
05:58 PM flav0r: well when you said cereal container
05:58 PM rue_shop3: fecl will tear nylon apart by the way
05:58 PM flav0r: i can imagine it well enough !
05:58 PM flav0r: lol
05:58 PM rue_shop3: link doen't work?
05:58 PM flav0r: yah i can see it
05:58 PM flav0r: just some sorta plastic container basically
05:58 PM rue_shop3: I use that now cause is "easy"
05:58 PM rue_shop3: norrow is important
05:58 PM rue_shop3: I need a lot more etchant for that than I did for the old one
05:59 PM flav0r: i have a couple gallons laying around
05:59 PM flav0r: lol
05:59 PM flav0r: what is an “amazon laminator” ?
05:59 PM rue_shop3: cheap!
05:59 PM flav0r: i bought a couple laminators from harbor freight before they stopped selling them
05:59 PM rue_shop3: esp when you buy "repackaged"
05:59 PM flav0r: they work like a charm
06:00 PM rue_shop3: do you use tehm for toner transfer?
06:00 PM flav0r: fuck no
06:00 PM flav0r: :)
06:00 PM rue_shop3: well thats what I got mine for
06:00 PM flav0r: ive never even attempted toner transfer
06:01 PM flav0r: looks too hokey
06:01 PM flav0r: you know .. hit and miss
06:01 PM flav0r: also i am doubtful about how fine you can go with the traces with that method
06:02 PM flav0r: i use laminator for solder mask by the way
06:03 PM rue_shop3: oh, what do you use for resist?
06:04 PM flav0r: dynamask 5000
06:04 PM rue_shop3: ?
06:04 PM rue_shop3: phoyo?
06:06 PM rue_shop3: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/etch/pcb_etching.html
06:06 PM flav0r: phoyo ?
06:06 PM rue_shop3: are you using photoresist?
06:06 PM flav0r: https://imgur.com/a/FnFUt27
06:07 PM rue_shop3: nice!
06:08 PM rue_shop3: so, it is a photoresist your using?
06:08 PM flav0r: the boards i use already have a positive resist on it
06:08 PM flav0r: ot me its not worth applying a resist for etching
06:09 PM flav0r: too much hassle when compared to cost of a board thats already sensitized
06:10 PM flav0r: i got a bunch of boards cheap
06:10 PM rue_shop3: ah so, hobby or you selling them?
06:10 PM flav0r: i.e. i bought 20 boards that 1re 114mmx165mm for $4 each
06:11 PM rue_shop3: the presensatized stuff aint cheap
06:11 PM flav0r: with positive resist
06:11 PM flav0r: double sided
06:11 PM rue_shop3: nice
06:11 PM flav0r: yeah
06:11 PM rue_shop3: ok, so, what are you photomasking with
06:11 PM rue_shop3: toner on transparency?
06:11 PM flav0r: transparency
06:12 PM rue_shop3: do you have to doube up?
06:12 PM flav0r: nope
06:12 PM flav0r: i get it done at kinkos
06:12 PM rue_shop3: ah, not your own printer
06:12 PM flav0r: again …. its worth spending the 50 cents to MAKE SURE its gonna be ok
06:13 PM rue_shop3: k
06:13 PM flav0r: no point wasting money on a board and a few hours of time only to discover later theres a fucked up trace
06:13 PM rue_shop3: so, is that one anything interesting, two motor drivers...
06:13 PM flav0r: oh that was for one of my earlier clocks
06:13 PM rue_shop3: er, no
06:13 PM flav0r: i gave that away to some lucky fucker
06:14 PM flav0r: a completely hand made thing
06:14 PM rue_shop3: so what program you use for the layout?
06:14 PM flav0r: eagle
06:14 PM rue_shop3: I hope you relize I'v had an easier time getting water out of a rock
06:15 PM flav0r: than using eagle ?
06:15 PM rue_shop3: then getting information out of ya
06:15 PM flav0r: oh
06:15 PM flav0r: heh
06:15 PM flav0r: shit dude !
06:15 PM flav0r: didnt realise i was not being forthcoming
06:15 PM flav0r: lol
06:16 PM flav0r: ok ummm
06:16 PM flav0r: yeah i use eagle
06:16 PM rue_shop3: so, eagle ->printer to transparency->????->etch in pan-> drill??? _. solder mask via laminator with dynamask5000 ->
06:16 PM flav0r: oh
06:16 PM flav0r: hang on
06:16 PM flav0r: you actually wanna know how its done ?
06:16 PM flav0r: hmm ok
06:16 PM flav0r: lol
06:16 PM rue_shop3: I want to know how you do it
06:16 PM flav0r: ahh
06:16 PM rue_shop3: I know how I do it
06:16 PM flav0r: ok eagle for schematic and board layout
06:16 PM flav0r: when hand making i do things a little differently
06:16 PM rue_shop3: veverak, is going to show me his milling process
06:17 PM flav0r: minimul 12mil ont he trace (try to use that as a min)
06:17 PM flav0r: minimum
06:17 PM rue_shop3: I have the start of some software to intermap a drillfile to real world postions, for autodrilling
06:17 PM flav0r: then also i make the vias slightly larger because im doing those by hand … soldering wire thriu
06:18 PM flav0r: then get a transparency done at kinkos because the toner density is WAAAAY better than doing it at home
06:18 PM flav0r: doubling up is silly because of how it fucks up with the light comign in at an angle etc
06:18 PM flav0r: you get blurriness
06:18 PM rue_shop3: yea
06:18 PM rue_shop3: toner side against board, right?
06:18 PM flav0r: yah of course
06:18 PM flav0r: then expose that for 10 seconds
06:18 PM rue_shop3: with
06:18 PM flav0r: i use UV LEDs
06:18 PM rue_shop3: oh
06:18 PM rue_shop3: about how many?
06:19 PM rue_shop3: a nail setting thing?
06:19 PM flav0r: no
06:19 PM flav0r: i bought a roll of LEDs
06:19 PM rue_shop3: k, how many, what kinda spacing?
06:19 PM flav0r: and cut them in lengths
06:19 PM flav0r: umm
06:19 PM rue_shop3: oh in strip
06:19 PM rue_shop3: I got a bag of 5mm
06:19 PM flav0r: i THINK it was the width of the strip as a spaceing
06:19 PM flav0r: id have to go look
06:20 PM rue_shop3: I didn't know UV came on strip
06:20 PM flav0r: arranged that soemthing like 12 inches by 10 inches
06:20 PM rue_shop3: k
06:20 PM rue_shop3: did you use a polerizing mask?
06:20 PM flav0r: then i just sit a piece of glass above that about 3 inches
06:20 PM flav0r: and put the board on top of the glass
06:20 PM flav0r: and put a little weight on the board
06:20 PM rue_shop3: on, board on light?
06:21 PM rue_shop3: not light over board
06:21 PM flav0r: its jsut a piece of glass i got from an older scanner/printer thing
06:21 PM flav0r: i lay the light on a table
06:21 PM flav0r: and position glass over light
06:21 PM rue_shop3: so you have a UV lightbox
06:21 PM flav0r: nah
06:21 PM flav0r: again i should make one … for convenience !
06:21 PM flav0r: lol
06:21 PM flav0r: expose for 10 seconds
06:22 PM rue_shop3: yea, wow, 10sec
06:22 PM flav0r: develop in the developer for the photo resist
06:22 PM flav0r: then etch
06:22 PM rue_shop3: is developer hard to get?
06:22 PM flav0r: nah amazon
06:22 PM rue_shop3: iirc nasty chems
06:22 PM flav0r: anywhere
06:22 PM rue_shop3: oh
06:22 PM rue_shop3: amazon
06:22 PM rue_shop3: LINK ME!
06:23 PM flav0r: https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Positive-Developer-Bottle/dp/B005T8QLCY/ref=asc_df_B005T8QLCY/
06:23 PM flav0r: that stuff
06:23 PM rue_shop3: I got some speedball stuff once
06:23 PM rue_shop3: I think its pooched by now
06:23 PM rue_shop3: mgchems, ok
06:23 PM flav0r: mix 10 to 1 with water
06:23 PM rue_shop3: huh $20
06:24 PM flav0r: again i should get something to do that more conveniently
06:24 PM flav0r: i just measure in a shot glass
06:24 PM flav0r: well here its 14 dolalrds
06:24 PM flav0r: so not toooo bad
06:24 PM rue_shop3: ok, so I should put a chemlab in the new shop
06:24 PM flav0r: when you conside how much you need
06:24 PM flav0r: also can save it
06:24 PM flav0r: i never bother reusing it
06:24 PM flav0r: but you can
06:25 PM flav0r: then you use laminator to put the dynamask on
06:26 PM rue_shop1: !bookmark flav0r pcb etching
06:26 PM rue_shop1: you didn't say about drilling
06:26 PM flav0r: expose that for 7.5 minutes
06:26 PM flav0r: then wait 40 minutes (leave it in a dark place)
06:26 PM flav0r: then i use a mix of 20 grams of sadium carbonate to 60 oz warm water
06:27 PM flav0r: and you wasit in that and the unwated mask washes away (i use a toothbrush)
06:27 PM flav0r: then wash in water to get the sodium carbonate off
06:27 PM flav0r: then expose under UV again til its completely cured
06:28 PM flav0r: then you bake it in an over at 300 degrees for an hour
06:28 PM flav0r: oven
06:29 PM flav0r: 300 farenheit
06:29 PM flav0r: then i cut the board to size
06:29 PM flav0r: then drill it
06:29 PM flav0r: drill press
06:30 PM flav0r: fuck my spellign is bad
06:30 PM flav0r: i think im losing my mind these days .. my typing is gettign worse
06:30 PM flav0r: hmmm more about dynamask
06:30 PM flav0r: it has some protective film both sides
06:31 PM flav0r: you take one side of that off (the dull side of the dynamask) and laminate to the board
06:31 PM flav0r: then you expose it for the 7.5 mins
06:31 PM flav0r: then put in dark place for 40 mins
06:32 PM flav0r: then take off the other protective film
06:32 PM flav0r: then wash off int he sodium carbonate mix
06:32 PM flav0r: i run thru the laminator a couple times each side … flip it over
06:32 PM flav0r: maybe run thru 5 times in total
06:33 PM flav0r: then wash under cold water after laminating
06:33 PM flav0r: then put in darkl place for 40 mins
06:33 PM flav0r: the cold water is to help with the bonding process
06:34 PM flav0r: you can use 2 pieces of scotch tape when removing the protective film from dynamask
06:34 PM flav0r: also make sure the etched board is nice and clean
06:34 PM flav0r: after etching i take off the resist with acetone
06:34 PM flav0r: then wash the board in alcohol
06:34 PM flav0r: OH !!!!!!!!
06:34 PM flav0r: at that point i dip it in Liquid Tin for a few minutes
06:34 PM flav0r: THEN laminate the dynamask
06:35 PM rue_mohr: yea, I had some liquid tin for a while
06:35 PM rue_mohr: ok
06:36 PM flav0r: its ok
06:36 PM rue_mohr: thats an involved process, but the result is pretty nice
06:36 PM flav0r: yah it works out nice
06:36 PM flav0r: i want to try some of this stuff
06:36 PM flav0r: https://www.cool-amp.com/
06:36 PM flav0r: in lieu of the liquid tin
06:36 PM flav0r: and see how that goes
06:38 PM flav0r: just a FYI
06:38 PM flav0r: whats happening with the mask is this
06:39 PM flav0r: when under the light for 7.5 mins you are partially curing the mask
06:39 PM flav0r: at which point youre able to wash away the umnwanted parts
06:39 PM flav0r: then you have to do the full cure after that for maybe 30 mins or so
06:40 PM flav0r: at that point you could test it with acetone and see theres no green coming off onto a towel
06:40 PM flav0r: so thats a good indicator its cured
06:40 PM flav0r: however
06:40 PM flav0r: the baking in oven is needed
06:40 PM flav0r: coz even tho the board looks all nice now
06:41 PM flav0r: its still kinda shit .. because a soldering iron will affect it
06:41 PM flav0r: so
06:41 PM flav0r: in the oven for an hour
06:41 PM flav0r: i remember reading around the internet about this stuff
06:41 PM flav0r: all kinds of bullshit info
06:42 PM flav0r: i basically had to spend about a week experimenting
06:42 PM flav0r: and actually reading the datasheet about dynamask etc
06:42 PM flav0r: to see about the thermal cring part
06:42 PM flav0r: curing
06:42 PM flav0r: i saw one idiot talking about how his transparency for doing the solder mask would stick to the mask when exposing it (its kinda soft)
06:43 PM flav0r: so he talks about using some oil
06:43 PM flav0r: before putting the transpartency on
06:43 PM flav0r: and then i saw other peopel following that guidline
06:43 PM flav0r: and repeating it in their write ups
06:43 PM flav0r: lol
06:43 PM flav0r: just leave the protective film on the dynamask you idiots
06:43 PM flav0r: thats what its there for !
06:43 PM flav0r: hahaha
06:43 PM flav0r: OIL !!!!!
06:44 PM rue_mohr: you dont have to sorry about your typos, I dont read the words, I read the thoughts
06:44 PM flav0r: if you buy the dynamask in a roll
06:45 PM flav0r: try to have the natural curl go perpendicular to the directtion thaqt youll feed it in the klaminator
06:45 PM flav0r: its easier to manage that way
06:45 PM flav0r: also
06:45 PM rue_mohr: right
06:45 PM flav0r: i have these pads of graph paper
06:45 PM rue_mohr: other wise a fold at the end
06:45 PM flav0r: they are awesome for cutting that stuff on
06:45 PM flav0r: coz you can see thru the mask
06:45 PM rue_mohr: I'm gonna go try and shove a pcb thru that laminator
06:45 PM flav0r: so its nice and easy to cut the size you need
06:46 PM flav0r: i also just slide the mak over the board in a way i can just press down one end
06:46 PM flav0r: then hold the board and the mask apart while feeding it
06:47 PM flav0r: i saw one guy do a video where he laid the mask on the board then fed into laminator
06:47 PM flav0r: also
06:47 PM flav0r: make sure theres no dust or shit floating around
06:47 PM flav0r: it sucks to get that stuck between mask and board
06:48 PM flav0r: theres quite a knack to gettign it ont here with no bubbles too
06:48 PM flav0r: well .. consistently !
06:49 PM rue_mohr: yup
06:53 PM flav0r: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-10-Ever-Muse-Positive-Acting-Presensitized-Board-PCB-GD114165-4-5-x-6-5/142969144460
06:53 PM flav0r: first time ive seen that packaging in english
06:53 PM flav0r: kinsten boards
06:54 PM flav0r: but thats not too bad $43 shipped from a US seller
06:58 PM rue_mohr: hmm
07:01 PM flav0r: the boards have a protective film both sides
07:01 PM flav0r: so if needed you could cut in half if your project doesnt need the full size
07:02 PM flav0r: i mention that because this size does NOT have protective film stuck to it
07:02 PM flav0r: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-FR4-Positive-Acting-Presensitized-PCB-GS1525-150x250x1-6mm-1-Side-Kinsten/142044157576
07:02 PM flav0r: which is inconvenient
07:14 PM rue_mohr: so I should add a darkroom to the new shop
07:15 PM Tom_L: can double as a clean room
07:15 PM rue_mohr: I'm going thru the access log on my webpage
07:15 PM rue_mohr: it looks like most of the access is from bots trying to find and/or exploit wordpress stuff
07:32 PM rue_shop3: will hairspray act like glue when heated?
07:34 PM rue_shop1: pcb fits
07:46 PM rue_shop1: huh, it looks like the laminator isn't hot enough to affect the toner
07:48 PM rue_shop3: about 3 hours left to live
07:58 PM flav0r: how much was the laminator you got
07:59 PM rue_mohr: $20
07:59 PM rue_mohr: iir
07:59 PM rue_mohr: c
07:59 PM flav0r: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gordon-9-Hot-Laminator-TESTED-Model-92499-Gray-FREE-SHIPPING/173582098278
07:59 PM flav0r: thats the same as the HF one
07:59 PM rue_mohr: no
08:00 PM flav0r: im saying its the same as the HF one i use
08:00 PM rue_mohr: mine is nicer and says amazon
08:00 PM rue_mohr: oh
08:00 PM rue_mohr: $24 + $12shipping
08:00 PM flav0r: unlucky
08:00 PM flav0r: free shipping in usa
08:00 PM flav0r: lol
08:00 PM rue_mohr: $36usd being $54cad
08:01 PM rue_mohr: and might pick up $50 at the border
08:01 PM flav0r: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GORDON-9-Inch-Hot-Laminator-New-in-the-box/323565961905
08:01 PM rue_mohr: "WE SAW IT" fee
08:01 PM flav0r: make a $10 offer on that !
08:01 PM rue_mohr: cant buy from usa
08:02 PM rue_mohr: Shipping:
08:02 PM rue_mohr: May not ship to Canada - Read item description or contact seller for shipping options. | See details
08:02 PM rue_mohr: esp from ebay
08:02 PM flav0r: weak
08:02 PM rue_mohr: thats why china was so nice
08:02 PM flav0r: that thing is a good laminaotr too
08:02 PM flav0r: very bare bones inside
08:03 PM rue_mohr: arg, there is a part of me starving right now
08:03 PM rue_mohr: it wants to sit down on a rug and assemble a flashing led circuit on a breadboard
08:03 PM rue_mohr: and then fall asleep watching it flash
09:08 PM flav0r: oh and here is the type of LEDs i use
09:08 PM flav0r: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-UV-LED-Strip-395nm-3528-SMD-Purple-600-flexible-lamp-waterproof-12V-black-PCB/263544924660
09:09 PM flav0r: oops
09:09 PM flav0r: i meant to paste this
09:09 PM flav0r: mine were non waterproov version
09:10 PM flav0r: a 600 LED strip of 395nm
09:23 PM rue_mohr: for uv that doesn't seem like a bad price
09:23 PM rue_mohr: it was hard to tell if many of the uv leds from china were purple or actaul uv
09:36 PM flav0r: well they seem to do the job !
09:36 PM flav0r: must be UV
09:36 PM rue_mohr: put a money note udner it
09:36 PM flav0r: i needed a bit of extra power
09:36 PM rue_mohr: if the dots glow, she's genuine
09:36 PM flav0r: was stuck
09:36 PM flav0r: then i remembered i had a power supply stashed in a closet !
09:37 PM flav0r: i was actually on ebay looking to buy one
09:37 PM flav0r: hahah
09:38 PM flav0r: its a BK Precision model 1660
09:38 PM flav0r: i forgot all about that fucker
09:38 PM flav0r: til ii was looking at power supplies on ebay and saw a bk precision
09:39 PM flav0r: then i thought A-HAH !!!
09:44 PM rue_mohr: :)
09:44 PM rue_mohr: what web browser you usin?
09:45 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/
09:45 PM rue_mohr: I'm modifying this
09:45 PM flav0r: firefox
09:45 PM rue_mohr: bah, same as me
09:55 PM Tom_L: what are you changing?
10:42 PM rue_mohr: heh
10:42 PM rue_mohr: I'll post it... :)
10:42 PM rue_mohr: I'v messed with it enough for one night
10:42 PM rue_mohr: you can tell me if it still works
10:46 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/
10:47 PM rue_mohr: flav0r, does it work?
10:50 PM rue_mohr: dunno why I do it, I suppose its for me, somehow
10:51 PM rue_mohr: just needs some scratches, dots and that annoying as all hell hair.
10:59 PM powderedtoastman: rue_mohr, where did you get your silicone 3d printer design from? did you make it?
11:08 PM flav0r: page still loads
11:09 PM rue_mohr: I'm worknig on a finite material head
11:09 PM rue_mohr: syringe based
11:11 PM rue_mohr: other than that, just an i2
11:13 PM rue_mohr: a heavily modified i2
11:15 PM powderedtoastman: Ahh
11:15 PM powderedtoastman: Me and some friends are making a HASEL android... We need to tprint the membranes for the actuators
11:16 PM rue_mohr: that wont be too thick?
11:16 PM rue_mohr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fCZWY1ljU
11:17 PM powderedtoastman: I don't know... I have 1 pound of HASEL incoming in a month, then we have 3 actuator designs to test, with a variety of membrane materials to try
11:17 PM powderedtoastman: My friend said he talked to you... deusexmachina, he quit IRC to "be productive"
11:18 PM powderedtoastman: he said you play with peano-HASEL
11:18 PM rue_mohr: :) he was being silly
11:18 PM powderedtoastman: Lol, he's crazy man
11:18 PM powderedtoastman: Like literally certifiable... but he always pulls off crazy impressive shit
11:19 PM rue_mohr: I dont know if I'm sold on hasel tho
11:19 PM powderedtoastman: Well, we are
11:19 PM rue_mohr: have you made one yet?
11:20 PM powderedtoastman: no, we're waiting on a pound of HASEL from someone, then he has 3 membrane/actuator designs for us to test... so in a month we'll have a pound of HASEL to experiment with
11:20 PM powderedtoastman: How can we simulate HASEL on a computer? We use Unity Game engine to render and do physics but I don't think it's good for this purpose
11:21 PM rue_mohr: you know its just oil right
11:21 PM powderedtoastman: Well, yeah... It's a refined petrolium product
11:21 PM powderedtoastman: We have a chemist among us now
11:22 PM rue_mohr: you know that vegitable oil works about as well as the fency electrlytic oil
11:22 PM powderedtoastman: It doesn't offer resistance based on the position of the actuator
11:22 PM rue_mohr: thats not how they works
11:22 PM rue_mohr: the capacitance changes
11:22 PM powderedtoastman: Yeah, I'm not the chemist:P
11:23 PM rue_mohr: you dont ahve to be chemist
11:23 PM rue_mohr: at all
11:23 PM rue_mohr: its basic physics
11:23 PM powderedtoastman: Well, I don't know ANY chemistry or engineering, I'm a programmer and philosopher
11:23 PM rue_mohr: you just need to know basic physics
11:23 PM powderedtoastman: He wants me for designing the androids brain and to handle it as it makes the journey towards emerging consciousness
11:24 PM powderedtoastman: I know basic physics... I studied biomechanics in university
11:25 PM powderedtoastman: And human anatomy... Which is useful when building a muscle mimetic human body
11:25 PM rue_mohr: its electrostatic attraction
11:25 PM powderedtoastman: cool, I don't need to know that though
11:25 PM rue_mohr: you must both be in university :)
11:25 PM powderedtoastman: Nah, we're both NEETs on disability
11:25 PM powderedtoastman: lol
11:26 PM powderedtoastman: He is the money backer... His family is rich as hell
11:26 PM powderedtoastman: Like, he wants an android... no problem, ask grand pa for a million dollars
11:27 PM rue_mohr: on the hasel front
11:27 PM powderedtoastman: He's on disability because he says he offers more to society programming than working to hold up this "farce economy destined to fall apart"
11:27 PM powderedtoastman: Yeah?
11:27 PM rue_mohr: did you guys look at the videos of hasel actuators?
11:28 PM powderedtoastman: yeah, he has a patterning idea that would allow the contractile bits to slide together interlocking so when it contracts it doesn't ball up
11:28 PM powderedtoastman: We saw some POC actuators, but no concrete design for replicating human muscle functionality without balling up and getting stuck on eachother
11:28 PM powderedtoastman: he's really... crazy.,. but he makes it work
11:28 PM rue_mohr: mhm, and you didn't notice the researchers repeatedly saying they are made from potato chip bags and canola oil?
11:29 PM powderedtoastman: No, I didn't look into how it's made
11:29 PM powderedtoastman: I don't care, I just want it to work
11:29 PM rue_mohr: heh
11:29 PM powderedtoastman: we're hoping for 60% of human muscle strength, is that realistic?
11:29 PM rue_mohr: nope
11:29 PM powderedtoastman: What is realistic?
11:29 PM rue_mohr: 0.07%
11:30 PM rue_mohr: yea
11:30 PM powderedtoastman: Well, then we'll have to extend the lever arms far beyond the human muscle attachment points, like a beast not a human, which will limit range of motion
11:30 PM rue_mohr: to get force with them you need votlage, and when you do that the insulating material breaks down and the whole thing fails
11:30 PM powderedtoastman: We have 1.5KW RF transmitted power
11:31 PM rue_mohr: heh
11:31 PM rue_mohr: voltage is not power
11:32 PM powderedtoastman: you can tell I'm not an engineer:P
11:32 PM powderedtoastman: I don't know simple circuits... I couldn't wire an LED to a battery lol
11:32 PM rue_mohr: you need people with the nack and you need to stop being specific after you say "adnroid body"
11:32 PM powderedtoastman: I just know how to program stuff and I'm learning ML now for this... I usually do kernel level programming and work on compilers and drivers and such
11:33 PM powderedtoastman: Well, we have 3 people, we need a team... He only reached out to us 2 a week ago
11:33 PM powderedtoastman: We're the only 2 robotics guys he knows, and he said he's going to bring in some ML people and train them on his AI design so they can help him
11:34 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/robots/sparrow1/p1040018.jpg
11:34 PM rue_mohr: the mecha I'm working on is 12'
11:34 PM powderedtoastman: The other guy, is a space robotics engineer, and an electrical engineer, and also knows reinforcement learning and has Boston Dynamics tech that he said not to ask about
11:34 PM rue_mohr: its pneumatic,
11:34 PM rue_mohr: its gas powered
11:34 PM powderedtoastman: Cool
11:35 PM powderedtoastman: what is it?
11:35 PM powderedtoastman: I'm half blind
11:35 PM rue_mohr: the reason its 12' is becasue thats AS SMALL as I can make it on the budget
11:35 PM rue_mohr: the budget is $240
11:35 PM powderedtoastman: Ahh
11:35 PM powderedtoastman: I think our budget is like 6 million canadian or something ridiculous like that for some guys working out of their moms basements
11:36 PM powderedtoastman: But that isn't a lot of money for an android of such a design
11:36 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/robots/sparrow1/p1040015.jpg
11:36 PM rue_mohr: mine is 1:1 control with force feedback
11:37 PM rue_mohr: I just got the main part of the force feedback working day before yesterday
11:37 PM rue_mohr: the plastic pipes are a mockup
11:38 PM powderedtoastman: Cool
11:38 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/projects/mecha1/p1080051.jpg
11:38 PM rue_mohr: ^ THAT was interesting
11:38 PM powderedtoastman: Looks like something from mech warrior
11:38 PM rue_mohr: casue, it turns out, it could work
11:38 PM powderedtoastman: how much can it carry in the cockpit?
11:38 PM rue_mohr: :)
11:38 PM powderedtoastman: If you scaled it up to fit a human could it handle that load?
11:38 PM rue_mohr: it was only supposed to be 3' high
11:39 PM rue_mohr: probably
11:39 PM powderedtoastman: lol, it looks really tall
11:39 PM rue_mohr: its about 4.5'
11:39 PM powderedtoastman: You need a machine shop
11:39 PM rue_mohr: the surprise was that its stable as all hell
11:39 PM powderedtoastman: to make cooler appendages
11:39 PM powderedtoastman: we have access to a machine shop through a friend who makes custom car parts for racing
11:39 PM rue_mohr: by next year I'll know if I get to start building the new 1200'^2 shop
11:40 PM powderedtoastman: This friend owns a massive machine shop, 50 million worth of tool and die equipment
11:40 PM powderedtoastman: I've only ever used it to make a silencer for my AK
11:40 PM powderedtoastman: I mean... to make a... something that isn't illegal here
11:40 PM rue_mohr: gee, my shop is prolly only at $30000
11:41 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/projects/mecha1/p1080049.jpg
11:41 PM powderedtoastman: That mech looks damn cool, I looked closer at it with my glasses
11:41 PM powderedtoastman: why doesn't it have assault rifles?
11:41 PM rue_mohr: I did balance it wrong tho, iirc it needs to be forward a bit
11:41 PM powderedtoastman: A mech of such a class, deserves fire power
11:41 PM rue_mohr: its just a scout, rockets and 1 cannon
11:41 PM powderedtoastman: ahh, I see
11:41 PM rue_mohr: I put lights on it
11:42 PM rue_mohr: I used aircraft pattern
11:42 PM rue_mohr: they all flash and stuff :)
11:42 PM powderedtoastman: Our friend who does robotics has a kill bot
11:42 PM powderedtoastman: lol
11:42 PM powderedtoastman: it has a barret .50 mounted on a tank track chasis
11:42 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/projects/mecha1/p1080048.jpg
11:42 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/projects/mecha1/p1080045.jpg
11:42 PM powderedtoastman: Does it walk properly?
11:42 PM rue_mohr: less cutting the nerve in my thumb, it was a fun project
11:43 PM powderedtoastman: you don't need thumbs
11:43 PM rue_mohr: not at all, but it could, thats what surprised me
11:43 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/projects/mecha1/p1080044.jpg
11:43 PM powderedtoastman: Do you know reinforcement learning?
11:44 PM powderedtoastman: I know a lot about it but I know mostly theory with ML, not application
11:44 PM rue_mohr: I'm just playing with ML now
11:44 PM powderedtoastman: I don't know any API's, but I know how a lot of stuff works
11:44 PM powderedtoastman: cool, I'm learning ML as of a few weeks ago
11:44 PM rue_mohr: working on understanding backpropigiation
11:44 PM powderedtoastman: I have the math and programming skills to become good at it, but I have very little practical experience
11:44 PM powderedtoastman: I just started ML to work on this project with these mad mad mad mad men
11:45 PM rue_mohr: mhm
11:45 PM rue_mohr: I know two things thats missing, and I'm not gonna tell :)
11:45 PM powderedtoastman: Okay:P
11:46 PM powderedtoastman: just don't have your computers connected to the internet
11:46 PM powderedtoastman: if deus can get into boston dynamic he can probably get into your workstation easily
11:46 PM powderedtoastman: lol, not a threat, just a joke that should sort of be payed attention to
11:47 PM powderedtoastman: the cluster we are programming on, has only ssh from deus's home IP, and only with port knocking in a very mysterious way
11:47 PM powderedtoastman: He's ultra paranoid about hacking
11:49 PM powderedtoastman: what hardware do you have for ML rue_mohr ?
11:49 PM powderedtoastman: Got a Quadro yet?
11:49 PM rue_mohr: not worried about it
11:49 PM powderedtoastman: I have a geforce 1080 Ti, saving up for a quadro rtx 5000
11:49 PM rue_mohr: need to know what I'm ding first
11:49 PM rue_mohr: besides, who things
11:49 PM rue_mohr: a) current hardware falls a bit short of what I need
11:50 PM powderedtoastman: well, having a beefy GPU is nice for playing with stuff designed by research companies with crazy hardware access
11:50 PM rue_mohr: b) bitcoin just crashed and the market is about to be flooded with high end bitcoin cards
11:50 PM powderedtoastman: like the BERT NLP model, is designed to run on a 64gb processor TPU from Google
11:50 PM rue_mohr: c) no point it collecting tech now, its going to all be better by the time I work it out
11:50 PM powderedtoastman: high end bitcoin cards is non-sense... the best cards for bitcoin mining were geforce 1080 Ti, and I'm not sure if 2080 Ti is better or nort
11:51 PM powderedtoastman: the GPU's you want for ML, need more than 11gb of RAM, so you need Quadro cards
11:51 PM rue_mohr: miners are packing up like crazy
11:51 PM rue_mohr: actaully I need 4T on card
11:51 PM rue_mohr: but whatever
11:52 PM powderedtoastman: 4Th?
11:52 PM rue_mohr: 4TB
11:53 PM rue_mohr: memory
11:53 PM powderedtoastman: in a GPU?
11:53 PM rue_mohr: yup
11:53 PM rue_mohr: wait for it
11:53 PM rue_mohr: in the meantime, firure out backpropigation
11:53 PM powderedtoastman: the most you can get is with a DGX-2, 512Gb shared RAM across 16 Tesla's... deus has one... i've never heard of a computer so expensive before
11:54 PM powderedtoastman: 465,00 USD for a ML server... wtdf
11:54 PM powderedtoastman: *wtf
11:54 PM powderedtoastman: This guy spends more money in a year than I will earn in my entire life
11:54 PM rue_mohr: its ok, bloatware and bad engineering will eat 'er all up
11:55 PM rue_mohr: my appleIIe is faster than an i5
11:55 PM powderedtoastman: all ML is bloatware
11:56 PM powderedtoastman: ML is like, the better way to compute when you have MASSIVE resources
11:56 PM powderedtoastman: maybe in 10 years every PC CPU will have a ML processor on the CPU socket
11:58 PM rue_shop1: I think it might be possable to get enough speed out of a standard modern processor
11:59 PM rue_shop1: but you wouldn't be able to have an OS running at the same time