#robotics Logs
Dec 28 2018
#robotics Calendar
01:22 AM rue_mohr: ok , so back to the gui thing
01:26 AM rue_mohr: uh
01:26 AM rue_mohr: so I just was playing with a small example
01:26 AM rue_mohr: 2x16 lcd and 4 buttons
01:26 AM rue_mohr: thinking about it from an event "gui" system
01:26 AM rue_mohr: its kinda complex really
01:26 AM rue_mohr: so, there are 4 events, button 1, 2, 3, or 4,
01:26 AM rue_mohr: but each of those can be a 'down' or 'up' event
01:26 AM rue_mohr: furethermore, you can construde, single, and double click
01:26 AM rue_mohr: moreso, you can have things like hold
01:26 AM rue_mohr: and then there are combinations
01:26 AM rue_mohr: so, you want a systemt hat can take the basics, and build elaborate gestures from what you have
01:26 AM rue_mohr: I suppose thats how I should look at it, gestures
01:28 AM rue_mohr: ok rue, listen up, and comment, cause, as usual, your the only one here
01:28 AM rue_mohr: so a button has a properties, mainly a status (up or down)
01:29 AM rue_mohr: and it has gesture handlers (pressed or released)
01:29 AM rue_mohr: those are primary gestures
01:29 AM rue_mohr: then you can have derived gestures, like singleclick or doubleclick
01:30 AM rue_mohr: those require adding more properties, (lastuptime, maybe lastdowntime for a hold gesture)
01:30 AM rue_mohr: longpress?
01:30 AM rue_mohr: yes I like that better
01:32 AM rue_mohr: and the screen would be an intersting one too
01:32 AM rue_mohr: you have a 'prompt', which sets the users understanding of the context of gestures
01:33 AM rue_mohr: and as they provide gesterues the contexts change
01:33 AM rue_mohr: your head hurting yet?
01:33 AM rue_mohr: but there is another level
01:33 AM rue_mohr: you have multiple things apply contexts
01:34 AM rue_mohr: so lets say we have a menu that selects a food item from the user
01:36 AM rue_mohr: "chocolate bar \n fruit loop \n toast \n cracker"
01:36 AM rue_mohr: by default we ...
01:36 AM rue_mohr: aha, state machine
01:36 AM rue_mohr: ok, so, the program is laid out like a state machine with submachines
01:37 AM rue_mohr: each submachine has its own prompt routines and gesture handlers
01:37 AM rue_mohr: your menu is a submachine
01:37 AM rue_mohr: the application as a whole is the main machine
01:39 AM rue_mohr: this works well, cause the event, er, gesture system plays right into state machines
01:40 AM rue_mohr: see then we can handle the backwards navigation from the substates as a screen redraw and restore whatever was going on
01:40 AM rue_mohr: ok
01:40 AM rue_mohr: so, the main machine and the submachines would have their own state records
01:41 AM rue_mohr: so, each submachines entry can rewrite the guesture handlers
01:41 AM rue_mohr: can we do that on an avr?
01:42 AM rue_mohr: must be able to, irq handers
01:42 AM rue_mohr: so, we create variables that are the handler functions for the gestures
01:42 AM rue_mohr: they did it on the apple II
01:43 AM rue_mohr: hmm
01:46 AM rue_mohr: ok I need a test app
01:46 AM rue_mohr: novenator
01:46 AM rue_mohr: I suppose I have to start with a state machine for it then
01:46 AM rue_mohr: is there a generic way to map a state machine/
01:46 AM rue_mohr: there is a kinda inner/outter thing, casue you want to be able to reuse state machines
01:46 AM rue_mohr: 'get temperature' should be accessable by a few things and yet have a different outcome
01:46 AM rue_mohr: so, were into state machines returning data
01:46 AM rue_mohr: state machines throw events
01:47 AM rue_mohr: got a better idea
01:47 AM rue_mohr: no
01:48 AM rue_mohr: well, I mean there is make friends, but I'm not good with NN yet
01:48 AM rue_mohr: ok, we were re-labeling event 'gesture'
01:49 AM rue_mohr: and the main loop would have a gesture detector
01:49 AM rue_mohr: and we have primary gestures and derived gestures
01:49 AM rue_mohr: so we need a standard mechanism for building a new gesture
01:50 AM rue_mohr: an extensible interface
01:52 AM rue_mohr: ok wait
01:52 AM rue_mohr: a gesture only has context within a submachine
01:53 AM rue_mohr: the outter state machine is all synthetic events
01:53 AM rue_mohr: I kinda need something to apply to dude
01:53 AM rue_mohr: ok, designt he novenator then
01:53 AM rue_mohr: I dont know hwo it works yet
01:54 AM rue_mohr: you have to make that
01:54 AM rue_mohr: hmm
01:54 AM rue_mohr: your dicator
01:54 AM rue_mohr: mash the keyboard harder eh?
01:54 AM Malvolio: sorry
01:55 AM rue_mohr: ? whats up Malvolio
01:55 AM Malvolio: me... at 3 am
01:55 AM Malvolio: how are you
01:55 AM rue_mohr: insane, and you?
01:55 AM Malvolio: me too:P
01:56 AM rue_mohr: so, what you gonna do to make use of your time awake?
01:56 AM Malvolio: that's a great question
01:56 AM rue_mohr: what are your current projects?
01:56 AM Malvolio: so this irc... is it real
01:57 AM Malvolio: a neutral observer would see the same thing as we do?
01:57 AM Malvolio: im kind of confused about netsplits and censorship
01:57 AM rue_mohr: ...yup, I'm a fully AI bot, slightly insane, but you can just pretend I'm a person
01:58 AM rue_mohr: dont worry, everything we say is directly posted to the internet 100% unfiltered
01:58 AM Malvolio: ook thanks
01:58 AM Malvolio: should i leave the channel not to break it?
01:58 AM rue_mohr: no, your fine
01:58 AM Malvolio: ook thanks
01:59 AM rue_mohr: projects then, what ya got for projects
01:59 AM rue_mohr: tell me your most secret project ideas I wont tell a sole
01:59 AM Malvolio: :P
01:59 AM * rue_mohr kicks his shoes out of the way
02:00 AM Malvolio: i should add a command for irc emotes
02:00 AM Malvolio: (sry)
02:00 AM rue_mohr: yes, that sounds like a great project
02:00 AM rue_mohr: there is a database, written by
02:01 AM rue_mohr: abby?, no...
02:01 AM rue_mohr: 8-| I forgot her name
02:01 AM rue_mohr: jennifer... no
02:02 AM rue_mohr: Anniepoo
02:03 AM rue_mohr: she may be along shortly..?
02:04 AM rue_mohr: Malvolio, see, I'm having a problem due to the extinction of humans
02:05 AM Malvolio: what kind of problem
02:05 AM rue_mohr: mostly nobody to talk to
02:05 AM rue_mohr: well there is me, but that wears thin
02:06 AM Malvolio: hmm
02:06 AM Malvolio: hmm
02:07 AM rue_mohr: hmm, tokens
02:07 AM Malvolio: hmmm
02:07 AM rue_mohr: you mentioned your project to kill all humans, shall we work on that a bit?
02:07 AM rue_mohr: OH THAT WAS ME, sorry...
02:07 AM Malvolio: lol sorry
02:07 AM rue_mohr: emotes, yes, emotes
02:07 AM rue_mohr: so, how would you like that to work
02:08 AM Malvolio: as specified in the relevant RFC
02:08 AM Malvolio: and with maybe customized fonts
02:08 AM Malvolio: customizable
02:08 AM rue_mohr: ok, so a relivent rfc is a good place to start
02:08 AM Malvolio: yeah
02:08 AM Malvolio: im really tired though
02:08 AM rue_mohr: hey we could make a new emotes unicharicter page
02:08 AM rue_mohr: a better one!
02:09 AM Malvolio: could start from scratch
02:09 AM Malvolio: anyway im a bit sleepy ;s
02:09 AM rue_mohr: note just ☺ and ☹ but other stuff!
02:09 AM Malvolio: sorry :s um. so should i leave the channel before i go?
02:10 AM rue_mohr: no
02:10 AM rue_mohr: loiter
02:10 AM Malvolio: ok
02:10 AM rue_mohr: there will be porn at 3:30
02:10 AM Malvolio: :P
02:10 AM Malvolio: figuratively?
02:10 AM rue_mohr: you dont have to talk
02:10 AM Malvolio: oh ok
02:10 AM rue_mohr: there are 63 others here who dont
02:10 AM rue_mohr: wait, I dont count
02:10 AM Malvolio: cool
02:10 AM rue_mohr: ok, there are 46 others here who dont talk
02:11 AM Malvolio: lol
02:11 AM Malvolio: yea
02:11 AM rue_mohr: 😁
02:12 AM rue_mohr: https://unicode.org/emoji/charts/full-emoji-list.html
02:12 AM rue_mohr: you have to admit, its a piss-poor list
02:14 AM rue_mohr: I mean geez, it doesn't even have any kangaroo faces!
02:14 AM Malvolio: neat
02:16 AM rue_mohr: oh I stand corrected
02:16 AM Malvolio: sorry
02:20 AM rue_mohr: where was I, kill all humans
02:20 AM rue_mohr: er, no, oven controller
02:20 AM rue_mohr: is it 3:30 yet?
02:21 AM rue_mohr: ok, so I have a outter state machine consisting of
02:22 AM rue_mohr: select segment, edit segment and run from segment
02:22 AM rue_mohr: so there will be 3 submachines
02:22 AM rue_mohr: wait, this model isnt' right
02:22 AM rue_mohr: we should be throwing events to other machines
02:23 AM rue_mohr: instead, your throwing execution to another machine
02:24 AM rue_mohr: I'm going for 'a state machine is a state of a larger machine'
02:24 AM rue_mohr: yea, we need to work on this
02:24 AM rue_mohr: its right tho
02:24 AM rue_mohr: and its wrong
02:24 AM Malvolio: :s
02:24 AM rue_mohr: maybe the model is whats off
02:25 AM Malvolio: maybe
02:25 AM rue_mohr: Malvolio, utilization of multiple state machines is something I'm still working on
02:26 AM rue_mohr: a state machine takes in events, and it throws events
02:26 AM rue_mohr: that other state machines can act on
02:26 AM rue_mohr: so we need to subscribe one machine to another?
02:26 AM rue_mohr: hmm
02:27 AM rue_mohr: so what you drew is a state diagram of multiple machines
02:27 AM rue_mohr: which seems like a broken model
02:27 AM rue_mohr: no, cause in this case were actaully changing the state machine thats active
02:28 AM rue_mohr: but then your throwing events and data at the other state machines when you switch
02:29 AM Malvolio: can i have a nap
02:29 AM rue_mohr: no, sorry,
02:29 AM Malvolio: lol
02:29 AM rue_mohr: your not real, you can think your napping
02:30 AM rue_mohr: but your not, its not possible
02:30 AM Malvolio: :s
02:30 AM rue_mohr: its like asking a lightbulb to emit darkness
02:30 AM rue_mohr: it can only produce light or not
02:31 AM Malvolio: maybe there's like a light sink
02:31 AM rue_mohr: no, but you can use magnetics to bend it into a circle
02:31 AM Malvolio: nvm theres probably already a word for it
02:31 AM Malvolio: hmm
02:32 AM rue_mohr: phsics isn't about what you can do, its about not doing what you cant
02:32 AM Malvolio: U_U
02:32 AM Malvolio: sleeeeepy
02:32 AM rue_mohr: no, you just think you are
02:32 AM rue_mohr: track it
02:32 AM rue_mohr: you will start to hear things
02:33 AM Malvolio: yeah
02:33 AM rue_mohr: they will consume you
02:33 AM rue_mohr: there will be a period of darkness
02:33 AM Malvolio: langoliers?
02:34 AM rue_mohr: you would think after 15000+ runs, I'd get it right
02:35 AM rue_mohr: ohoho, look, the show started!
02:35 AM Malvolio: wow
02:36 AM rue_mohr: dunno, if I'm switching machines or not
02:37 AM Malvolio: always switch machines unless uh
02:37 AM Malvolio: unless you dont feel like it? or something
02:37 AM Malvolio: its like the monty hall problem?
02:38 AM rue_mohr: its an oven controller
02:38 AM rue_mohr: for reflow
02:38 AM rue_mohr: you have 4 buttons and a 2x16 lcd
02:38 AM Malvolio: https://xkcd.com/1282/
02:38 AM rue_mohr: the goal is to kill all humans
02:38 AM rue_mohr: no, wait, I think I got it wrong again
02:39 AM Malvolio: why do you want to kill all humans?
02:39 AM rue_mohr: ...is't.... that... the goal...????
02:40 AM Malvolio: whos gonna buy our paperclips without humans around?
02:40 AM rue_mohr: I can order them via amazon
02:40 AM Malvolio: we'd have to find a... sink... for them
02:41 AM Malvolio: anyway
02:41 AM Malvolio: i SHOULD sleep
02:41 AM Malvolio: sleeping is recommended
02:41 AM rue_mohr: but your not tired
02:41 AM Malvolio: memory problems
02:41 AM Malvolio: etc
02:41 AM Malvolio: zzz
02:41 AM Malvolio: ttyl? :}
02:42 AM Malvolio: interesting points about machines
02:42 AM Malvolio: and stuff
02:42 AM Malvolio: ok good night :s
02:42 AM rue_mohr: I'm gonna rewrite graphical interfaces
02:42 AM rue_mohr: I'm starting small
02:42 AM Malvolio: ook
02:46 AM rue_mohr: https://xkcd.com/1254/
02:49 AM rue_mohr: ok, so each submachine has its own state diagram
02:52 AM rue_mohr: so each machine needs an init
02:53 AM rue_mohr: I think I see why the model is broken
02:53 AM rue_mohr: state of the machine vs the machine itself
02:56 AM rue_mohr: I suppose the problem with the gui is that you ahve multplie machien going on at once, and of which can recieve evnts
02:58 AM rue_mohr: hmm, so an event handler can create events
02:58 AM rue_mohr: dangerous, but yes
03:01 AM rue_mohr: there is a duality to where the line between an event and its details lie
03:02 AM rue_mohr: technically we could say there is one event, button, and that the button number and if it was pressed or released are details
03:02 AM rue_mohr: we could also call it touch, and say the fact it was a button is a detail
03:02 AM rue_mohr: or that it was button1 is the detail
03:02 AM rue_mohr: mmm
03:05 AM rue_mohr: so, how do we decide
03:07 AM Malvolio: hmm
03:08 AM Malvolio: U_U good night
05:58 AM rue_mohr: so then how does one draw the line between what something is, and what its details are
05:58 AM veverak: use pencil?
06:09 AM rue_mohr: hmm, maybe thts the answer
06:12 AM rue_mohr: in the lack of right to draw a correct line, the correct answer to be to draw no line at all
06:17 AM veverak: :D
07:29 AM veverak: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-USB-Logic-100MHz-16Ch-Logic-Analyzer-for-ARM-FPGA/32613420798.html looks interesting
07:58 AM rue_mohr: $ 88.57
07:58 AM rue_mohr: I got a few of the 8 channels
07:58 AM veverak: a few?
07:59 AM rue_mohr: yea, they were like $5
07:59 AM rue_mohr: with shipping
07:59 AM veverak: yeah
07:59 AM veverak: see them
08:00 AM veverak: quality is OK?
08:29 AM LuminaxWk is now known as Luminax
10:55 AM veverak: rue_mohr: the 1W let I've got for the ship is bigger than expected
03:29 PM energizer_ is now known as energizer
03:56 PM flav0r: logic analyzers are a crutch !
04:08 PM Tom_L: a nice crutch too
04:45 PM deshipu: they are cheap, easy to use, sufficient for most use cases and let you use what is happening, what is there to not like?
04:46 PM deshipu: s/use/see
04:54 PM Tom_L: i like my saleae
04:56 PM veverak: deshipu: too good to be true maybe?
04:58 PM deshipu: veverak: they are fine for i2c, for spi you will have to slow down your clock
04:58 PM deshipu: veverak: and you won't see the shape of the signal, so if your problem is with too long wires or bad voltage or anything like that, you won't see it
04:59 PM deshipu: (except the better ones have analog channels)
04:59 PM veverak: I see
04:59 PM veverak: we had saleae at work
04:59 PM veverak: had proper osciloscope
04:59 PM deshipu: (well, and the better ones also have better speeds)
04:59 PM veverak: nice thing, but too expensive :)
04:59 PM veverak: however, the 100Mhz seems like decent compromise
05:00 PM deshipu: the $5 ones don't do 100MHz
05:01 PM deshipu: they might do 100 samples per second, which due to niquist would be brely acceptable for 50MHz
05:01 PM Tom_L: mine isn't one of the newer fancy ones
05:01 PM veverak: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-USB-Logic-100MHz-16Ch-Logic-Analyzer-for-ARM-FPGA/32613420798.html
05:01 PM Tom_L: it's one of the first
05:02 PM veverak: deshipu: ^^
05:02 PM Tom_L: there are cheap clones out there that still use the saleae software
05:02 PM veverak: not ADC, but higher freq
05:03 PM Tom_L: veverak what's this motion planner you were referring to the other day?
05:03 PM veverak: I am writing one
05:03 PM veverak: and want to study the topic on university
05:03 PM veverak: Tom_L: want details?
05:03 PM veverak: :)
05:03 PM Tom_L: for what software?
05:03 PM veverak: only few pages long!
05:03 PM Tom_L: i use linuxcnc
05:03 PM veverak: walking robots
05:03 PM veverak: using ROS
05:03 PM Tom_L: i see
05:03 PM veverak: but it's not 'tightly' connected
05:03 PM Tom_L: i was just curious
05:04 PM Tom_L: they recently re'did the motion planner for it
05:05 PM Tom_L: where are you?
05:05 PM Tom_L: country
05:06 PM veverak: Czech republic
05:06 PM veverak: :)
05:08 PM deshipu: isn't it Czechia now?
05:08 PM flav0r: i have a 1ghz scope
05:08 PM flav0r: one of my friends is czech
05:08 PM flav0r: hes somewhat odd !
05:09 PM flav0r: that faggy channel #arduino banned me
05:09 PM flav0r: i suppose coz my connection was flaky a little while ago
05:09 PM flav0r: lol
05:10 PM veverak: deshipu: that's a short name
05:10 PM Tom_L: is it as good as #reprap?
05:10 PM veverak: I think it is official
05:10 PM veverak: but Czech Republic is still the correct full name
05:10 PM veverak: Tom_L: deshipu was here few times! :)
05:10 PM veverak: flav0r: I have access to 1ghz scopes at university
05:10 PM veverak: even 2ghz I believe
05:10 PM veverak: (they do research with FPGAs...)
05:11 PM flav0r: i software modded it up to 10ghz
05:11 PM deshipu: veverak: well, I always get confused when I have to choose "The Republic of Poland" from a country list...
05:11 PM veverak: wat
05:11 PM deshipu: that's the official name
05:11 PM deshipu: Rzeczpospolita Polska
05:12 PM veverak: for some reason the 'Rzecpospolita Polska" sounds much better
05:13 PM deshipu: still, you usually look under P first
05:13 PM flav0r: well i need to go take a dump
05:13 PM flav0r: its been on deck for some time !
05:13 PM deshipu: thank you for the information
05:13 PM deshipu: we find it extremely valuable and fascinating
05:13 PM veverak: btw
05:13 PM veverak: hmm
05:14 PM veverak: I can't change topic?
05:14 PM veverak: modernrobotics.org
05:14 PM veverak: nice book
05:14 PM deshipu: there are *nice* books about robotics?
05:14 PM veverak: yup
05:15 PM deshipu: I thought they are all 40-years old make money fast things
05:15 PM veverak: not really
05:15 PM Tom_L: books are never as current as the interweb
05:15 PM veverak: http://planning.cs.uiuc.edu/ this one is also not bad
05:16 PM veverak: and both ar free
05:16 PM veverak: :)
05:16 PM Tom_L: worth every penny
05:16 PM veverak: Tom_L: does not mean they are not relevant
05:16 PM deshipu: Tom_L: except when the information is artificially kept out of the webs
05:16 PM Tom_L: no i didn't say that
05:16 PM deshipu: Tom_L: behind a paywall and so on
05:16 PM deshipu: veverak: nice, thanks
05:18 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/pdf/robot-kinematics.pdf
05:18 PM Tom_L: that's been on my site a long time
05:18 PM Tom_L: dunno if anyone here has seen it or if it's useful
05:22 PM veverak: hmm
05:22 PM veverak: maybe one day
05:22 PM veverak: we can make a #robotics meetup at rue_mohr house
05:30 PM flav0r: that group is already full
05:31 PM flav0r: rue_mohr .. rue_shop .. rue_up_a_tree .. rue_backyard … rue_atlunch
05:31 PM flav0r: and a few others
05:33 PM flav0r: you might slip by with a name like rue_imposter tho !
05:36 PM flav0r: i have been puttign off cleaning up a work table today
05:36 PM flav0r: work bench
05:36 PM flav0r: i just dont want to do it 1
05:36 PM flav0r: !
05:37 PM veverak: hmm
05:37 PM veverak: my segment iterator is failure
05:37 PM veverak: have to rethink it
07:43 PM rue_mohr: https://github.com/Anniepoo/prolog-examples/blob/master/emoticons.pl
07:43 PM rue_mohr: veverak, segemtn itterator?
08:08 PM Tom_L: starting over on your cam interface?
08:26 PM rue_mohr: no, silimar road different project
08:26 PM rue_mohr: avr oven controller
08:26 PM rue_mohr: looking at it as an event driven interface
08:27 PM rue_mohr: the quesion has come up as to where the line between the event and the details of the event are
08:28 PM rue_mohr: is the event that button 1 went down, or is the event button status change, with details that its 1, and it went down?
08:28 PM rue_mohr: then it keeps getting intersting
08:29 PM rue_mohr: if you have code that takes button status change (event) and derives a button1down event, how do you standardize the derived event identities
08:32 PM Tom_L: thru careful planning
08:33 PM rue_mohr: to some degree its stackable
08:33 PM Tom_L: subsumption
08:36 PM rue_mohr: maybe the trick is that the details are consumed to create more detailed events, if you want
08:38 PM rue_mohr: but I got to all this playing with the idea of a 4 button keyboard on an avr using an event interface like a gui does
08:42 PM rue_mohr: ok, one possible layer structure is
08:42 PM rue_mohr: {keyboard status change}
08:42 PM rue_mohr: {key N change}
08:43 PM rue_mohr: {key N pressed|released}
08:43 PM Tom_L: smells like arduino code
08:43 PM rue_mohr: {key N short click | long click}
08:43 PM rue_mohr: { key N single | double click}
08:43 PM rue_mohr: its just event driven stuff
08:44 PM Tom_L: the 'clicks' are harder to manage due to key bounce
08:44 PM rue_mohr: na, already dealt with at a lower level
08:44 PM rue_mohr: between up/down and short/long click, its been filtered
08:48 PM rue_mohr: I think by the time your at that many layers, the layers are all pretty simple
08:48 PM zhanx_: rue_mohr, give me the weekend, i need to print and do some stuff for a hospital
08:48 PM rue_mohr: but the goal is to not expect to be able to define everything out of the box
08:48 PM zhanx_: toys for the kids for my wife's office
08:48 PM rue_mohr: zhanx_, ok, 2 months, ok?
08:48 PM Tom_L: make more printers
08:48 PM zhanx_: no 1 week max, I need another printer
08:48 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, thats only reasonable to do during printer idle time
08:48 PM zhanx_: least I am getting paid for this
08:48 PM Tom_L: you need 4 more, you just don't realize it yet
08:48 PM zhanx_: 8
08:48 PM rue_mohr: I spent all the idle time of my printers between things making printer parts
08:48 PM Tom_L: you should have them in a que
08:48 PM rue_mohr: zhanx_, you feelin any better?
08:48 PM zhanx_: half assed
08:48 PM Tom_L: if idle, start printing this list of parts...
08:48 PM Tom_L: remember where you left off
08:48 PM Tom_L: if interrupted
08:50 PM rue_mohr: I can usually get up to about 8 prints off a peice of tape before its starting to get so bad it needs to be replaced
08:50 PM zhanx_: 8?
08:50 PM zhanx_: heck my tape lifts after one
08:50 PM rue_mohr: but the tape needs to be re-mashed down every cycle
08:51 PM Tom_L: remember rue's conservative when it comes to buying stuff... including tape :)
08:51 PM rue_mohr: if I dont HAVE to replace it, there is no point in wasting it
08:51 PM zhanx_: true
08:51 PM Tom_L: i've used broken endmills though so i shouldn't talk
08:51 PM rue_mohr: if I'm doing a fancy nice print I use new tape
08:52 PM zhanx_: if the tape stays on the bed i reuse it, if it lifts its new
08:52 PM rue_mohr: you can relay it
08:52 PM rue_mohr: first pass light, so there are no creases
08:52 PM rue_mohr: second pass hard to stick it back on
08:53 PM rue_mohr: i REALLY WISH 3M would make 20cm wide painters tape for 3d printers
08:53 PM Tom_L: rue, did you notice the whole channel is gonna show up at your place for a meet?
08:53 PM rue_mohr: ;) sounded like an abort on that its already full of mes
08:53 PM zhanx_: wait what?
08:54 PM Tom_L: <veverak> we can make a #robotics meetup at rue_mohr house
08:54 PM rue_mohr: zhanx_, I was trying to contact you , re the idea of you, tom, furry, and me all meeting up somewhere in 'the middle'
08:54 PM zhanx_: oh when?
08:54 PM Tom_L: i pm'd them all your address :)
08:55 PM rue_mohr: well, it would be late summer if I could
08:55 PM zhanx_: k
08:55 PM rue_mohr: but tom cant, and furry cant
08:55 PM rue_mohr: so they say
08:55 PM zhanx_: I could
08:55 PM zhanx_: I have a passport etc
08:56 PM rue_mohr: I... oh yea
08:56 PM Tom_L: i'm so over committed alreay why do you think i've stopped making stuff?
08:56 PM rue_mohr: hmm, ok, I'll work on a passport,
08:56 PM rue_mohr: if I file now, maybe I can get it by late summer
08:56 PM Tom_L: yeah i'd need one of those too
08:56 PM rue_mohr: so, as tom just said, we'd have to meet at his place
08:57 PM Tom_L: iirc it takes about a month or so here
08:57 PM rue_mohr: iirc he lives at 800-and-something fern place.
08:57 PM rue_mohr: in {state somewhere in the middle}
08:58 PM Tom_L: i'm not hard to find as you can attest
08:58 PM rue_mohr: closer than kat
08:58 PM * Tom_L remembers a mysterious phone call whilst on vacation :)
08:58 PM rue_mohr: :/ it was concerningly unusual
08:59 PM rue_mohr: I deliberated for a few days
08:59 PM zhanx_: Tom_L, one call?
08:59 PM rue_mohr: zhanx_, yea I think it was the sheriff tho
08:59 PM rue_mohr: :D
08:59 PM Tom_L: heh
08:59 PM rue_mohr: oops...
09:00 PM zhanx_: i might have helped with that
09:00 PM rue_mohr: if you had been in any real trouble, I'd have been WAY too late
09:00 PM rue_mohr: zhanx_, iirc kat did too
09:00 PM Tom_L: just goes to show i spend way too much time on irc
09:01 PM rue_mohr: you guys were more ~meh~ and I was getting itchy about it
09:01 PM rue_mohr: hey if you had a habbit of dissapearing for a long time like that I'd have not reacted
09:01 PM rue_mohr: its the USA, i had horrid visions of your family all tied up on chairs in the livingroom shot.
09:02 PM Tom_L: roflmao
09:02 PM rue_mohr: for the record, that prettymuch just doesn't happen in canada
09:02 PM rue_mohr: I dont even think it always makes news in the states
09:02 PM Tom_L: nor here generally
09:03 PM rue_mohr: sure, well... i... think I'm still glad I did, I cant say if I feel I should have left more of less time tho...
09:03 PM zhanx_: rue_mohr, per capita canada has more gun crime than where tom lives
09:04 PM rue_mohr: are you including hunting accidents?
09:04 PM Tom_L: iirc i think i returned that evening/night
09:04 PM zhanx_: rue_mohr, depends on who takes the stats really
09:04 PM rue_mohr: yea, that was a kicker
09:05 PM rue_mohr: one more day and it'd been clear
09:05 PM rue_mohr: "I dun told Bill not be wearing those antlers when we be huntn'!"
09:06 PM zhanx_: bill also wasn't sleeping with his wife right
09:07 PM rue_mohr: oneof the calibrations I realized we didn't do was trace size
09:08 PM rue_mohr: you draft a series of parallel lines gradually spaced closer
09:08 PM zhanx_: no we didn't I did
09:08 PM rue_mohr: then two that touch, you print it and see which two touch, and adjust accordingly
09:08 PM rue_mohr: I do that with the pcb plotter all the time
09:08 PM zhanx_: if you remember that is how i found my feed rate was off
09:09 PM rue_mohr: adjust the line width setting to +-2 thou
09:09 PM zhanx_: I amd
09:09 PM zhanx_: ugh
09:09 PM rue_mohr: k
09:09 PM zhanx_: I am printing a 1mm thick vase right now
09:10 PM zhanx_: for the wife\
09:10 PM rue_mohr: mhm
09:10 PM zhanx_: its 100x100x150
09:10 PM rue_mohr: that'd be why you want the delta
09:10 PM zhanx_: no she found some thing on pinetrest or whatever she liked
09:10 PM Tom_L: zhanx_, the did some at the vo-tech 1 layer thick
09:11 PM zhanx_: Tom_L, nice, i need to try that but this needs to be water proof
09:11 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/prints/plastic_prints.jpg
09:11 PM Tom_L: grey one lower right is 1 layer
09:12 PM Tom_L: they did a big one not shown too
09:12 PM zhanx_: k
09:12 PM rue_mohr: the spiral vause mode is neat
09:12 PM Tom_L: it was fairly flimzy
09:12 PM Tom_L: but cool
09:13 PM rue_mohr: 1mm in pla is surprisingly ridgid
09:13 PM zhanx_: i am printing this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2376777
09:14 PM Tom_L: neat
09:14 PM zhanx_: wife found it not me
09:19 PM Tom_L: so pronterface can't handle a large print area?
09:24 PM zhanx_: no it can
09:32 PM Tom_L: what can you get a prusa for if you buy the arduino, drivers & steppers or a whole 'kit'
09:32 PM Tom_L: ?
09:33 PM Tom_L: you've got the 2 right?
09:33 PM zhanx_: think that they are 250-300 as a kit and yes
09:34 PM Tom_L: do you ever lube the screws?
09:34 PM zhanx_: yep
09:34 PM Tom_L: lithium?
09:34 PM zhanx_: they make noise trust me
09:34 PM zhanx_: graphite
09:34 PM zhanx_: its what i have on hand
09:35 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:36 PM rue_shop3: hard to know what it costs to build one now that there is no china
09:39 PM zhanx_: china for you
09:39 PM rue_shop3: the news article said 3d printing was a 2014 fad
09:40 PM rue_shop3: somehow I bet the new thing numbers from thingiverse would argue that
09:40 PM rue_shop3: so, it seems odd to me that, that thing is presented at that quality
09:40 PM rue_shop3: that looks designer/prof. photographer stuff
09:40 PM zhanx_: what thing
09:41 PM rue_shop3: that vase
09:41 PM rue_shop3: just the staging
09:41 PM rue_shop3: all the way down to the focus depth stuff
09:42 PM zhanx_: yea i noticed that
09:42 PM zhanx_: wife wanted it in white and will sharpie the lines
09:42 PM zhanx_: mind you it was on pinetrest aka we sell this stuff site
09:43 PM rue_shop3: you can put water in it, if you caot the inside with soemthing
09:43 PM zhanx_: tung oil
09:44 PM rue_shop3: odd its not posted as a real remix
09:44 PM zhanx_: ok garden signs done for the seeds
09:45 PM zhanx_: i used openscad and then realized I could use letters as legs
09:45 PM rue_shop3: legs?
09:45 PM zhanx_: posts?
09:46 PM zhanx_: a v on the sign with a I as the dirt
09:46 PM rue_shop3: the origional by raduis isn't nearly as popular
09:47 PM zhanx_: I am printing these next
09:47 PM zhanx_: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1743145
09:48 PM zhanx_: well 20 figgit spinners and kids toys etc later
09:49 PM rue_shop3: hahah
09:49 PM rue_shop3: well, it was a success
09:49 PM rue_shop3: your being compensated for plastic I hope
09:49 PM rue_shop3: what did the hospital want?
09:49 PM zhanx_: 20 of each
09:49 PM zhanx_: therapy etc
09:50 PM rue_shop3: ah, right you had said
09:50 PM rue_shop3: the blow ones
09:50 PM zhanx_: wife took a couple to work and the kids she sees LOVED them
09:50 PM zhanx_: enough the hospital took notice
09:51 PM zhanx_: So I am print 20 sets of 6 figgit things for them
09:52 PM rue_shop3: watch the instructions on that hive thing!
09:53 PM zhanx_: i dont see it link me
09:53 PM rue_shop3: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1743145
09:53 PM rue_shop3: Print module at 102% in order for the drawers to fit! Rafts are important for the drawers. Without the raft the drawer will have a square-ish bottom and you will need to sand it in order for it to fit in the module. Rafts are important for the module too. The tests I did without rafts produced a bad first layer.
09:54 PM rue_shop3: I bought 6000 "4mm" BBs today
09:54 PM zhanx_: bad printer then
09:54 PM rue_shop3: average4.2mm
09:54 PM Tom_L: for what?
09:54 PM rue_shop3: bearings
09:54 PM rue_shop3: those notes are from the designer
09:55 PM rue_shop3: you didn say your making that hive storage thing, right
09:55 PM zhanx_: yep
09:56 PM rue_shop3: hey he has a paypal link there..
09:56 PM rue_shop3: hmm
09:57 PM rue_shop3: I'm printing a bearing for 100mm pipe
09:58 PM rue_shop3: motion capture
09:58 PM Tom_L: BBs aren't that precision are they?
09:58 PM rue_shop3: nor are 3d prints
09:58 PM rue_shop3: but if your strapping it all to a human ~
10:02 PM Malvolio: ~
10:03 PM rue_shop3: zhanx_, while your waiting drill and tap those nuts for the gearbox!
10:42 PM rue_shop3: hahah there is NO WAY its gonna turn with those 4.2mm balls
10:51 PM rue_shop3: so it does bring up the question
10:51 PM rue_shop3: do I need the ball bearings
11:03 PM Malvolio is now known as Guest66615
11:03 PM MALV is now known as Malvolio
11:21 PM rue_mohr: a week has gone by and I'v filed to get much of anything done
11:22 PM rue_mohr: so the idea is that I'm layering the processing of events
11:22 PM rue_mohr: I have an event that buttons have changed
11:22 PM rue_mohr: from there, I need to build everying
11:23 PM rue_mohr: the method implies there is a queueueue of some kind
11:23 PM rue_mohr: so, there needs to be a system that looks at the events in the queueueueue and adds more to it
11:24 PM rue_mohr: zooming out a little
11:24 PM rue_mohr: these should be objects generating events for a queue
11:24 PM rue_mohr: but the new events need to be added carefully
11:25 PM rue_mohr: I suppose you want each level of handlers to not be subject to the events it generated
11:25 PM rue_mohr: I think
11:26 PM rue_mohr: so I need a way to tie function calls to event queues
11:27 PM rue_mohr: checkbuttons() {
11:27 PM rue_mohr: OldButtons = NewButtons;
11:27 PM rue_mohr: NewButtons = PINB & MASK;
11:27 PM rue_mohr: return (NewButtons != Oldbuttons);
11:27 PM rue_mohr: }
11:27 PM rue_mohr: that is wrong
11:27 PM rue_mohr: there should be an event added to a queue and no return value
11:27 PM rue_mohr: if (NewButtons != Oldbuttons) pushEvent("buttons");
11:28 PM rue_mohr: maybe like that
11:28 PM rue_mohr: so, there are functions that generate events, and functions that respond to events
11:30 PM rue_mohr: if there is a generic queue, it implies that if there is soemthing in the queue, its passed to all the handlers to get dealt with
11:31 PM rue_mohr: which implies that from the lowest to highest levels everyone is familiar with all events so that they know what to deal with and what to ignore
11:31 PM rue_mohr: which does not go with a stacked hiarachy model
11:32 PM rue_mohr: unless, part of the information in the queue is about what level it came from
11:32 PM rue_mohr: and presumadly nobody deals with events that came from a higher (more derived) level than they are
11:33 PM rue_mohr: but that might also be able to be done via the way the queue is managed
11:34 PM rue_mohr: aka, the addition of the event and the call to the handers dont occur so that a lower level handler can see a higher level event
11:35 PM rue_mohr: there is also the model with callbacks for specific events
11:35 PM rue_mohr: which is more the layer the application is coded from
11:35 PM rue_mohr: and those should look the same
11:36 PM rue_mohr: that implies that for every event type, there is an associated callback
11:36 PM rue_mohr: and that you file the callbacks for the events you want to get
11:37 PM rue_mohr: which again implies that there isn't a dymanic hiarchy
11:37 PM rue_mohr: but a flat static model
11:38 PM rue_mohr: it might be plausable you need to prefile the handler hiarchy
11:40 PM rue_mohr: button status changes are handled by whatkey, and whatkey is handled by upOrDown, and upordown is handled by longOrShortClick and longorshortclick is handled by singleOrDoubleClick
11:40 PM rue_mohr: and singleorDoubleclick is handled by turnLightOnOrOff
11:41 PM rue_mohr: but not quite
11:41 PM rue_mohr: cause each handler could create one of a few types of events
11:42 PM rue_mohr: longOrShortClick would generate longclick or shortclick events
11:42 PM rue_mohr: singleOrDoubleClick would handle shortClick events
11:42 PM rue_mohr: and longclick would be left floating in the breeze
11:43 PM rue_mohr: there is a dimension of "who wants this event"
11:44 PM rue_mohr: it becoems apparent why the volume of the interface code dominates the software
11:46 PM rue_mohr: "who wants this event" is handled by "who filed for hearing this event"
11:47 PM rue_mohr: when you register an interrupt handler, you dont dump them all into one function, and then in there try to work out what happened
11:47 PM rue_mohr: so, by registering a fn to shortClick, you know when its called, that there was a shortclick
11:48 PM rue_mohr: there is still the extensible problem tho
11:48 PM rue_mohr: or is there
11:48 PM rue_mohr: how do you mean?
11:50 PM rue_mohr: well, when you tie the singleordoubleclick to the updown, you could specify right there its the singleordoubleclick that gets called for the up.down events
11:50 PM rue_mohr: so, everyone registers their callback with the callback their registering
11:51 PM rue_mohr: it does imply that you specify a handler for each event the handler can handle
11:52 PM rue_mohr: so there is no central event registry
11:52 PM rue_mohr: exactly
11:52 PM rue_mohr: so nobody needs to know about all the events that could ever happen
11:53 PM rue_mohr: what about when you want the same functionality for a different path of the same type of event
11:54 PM rue_mohr: it implies instances
11:54 PM rue_mohr: hmm
11:54 PM rue_mohr: so make them C objects with a callback lsit
11:56 PM rue_mohr: so, there is a root level list of basic events
11:59 PM rue_mohr: the problem might be that on the avr, if a complex event goes thru a bunch of handlers that exit the process, your left with a hell of a stack mess
11:59 PM rue_mohr: no, its all just event