#robotics Logs
Dec 18 2018
#robotics Calendar
12:00 AM rue_mohr: yes.
03:22 AM ldlework: rue_mohr: what code of mine were you reading?
03:36 AM SleepyTurtle: What's the threshold in C space complexity for sampling methods being more efficient than potential field / cell decomposition methods for path planning?
07:23 AM therealdurrf: https://i.imgur.com/uhhcMBy.png these count as robots, right?
07:34 AM deshipu: therealdurrf: depends what they control
07:34 AM deshipu: therealdurrf: but sure, why not
07:34 AM therealdurrf: they are not autonomous :( they are controlled by the radios in the back
07:34 AM deshipu: ah, I didn't see the bottom of the photo
07:35 AM deshipu: so yeah, I have my personal working definition of a robot
07:36 AM deshipu: "a device designed to mimic an aspect of a human or animal"
07:36 AM therealdurrf: :( i know they are technically not robots
07:36 AM deshipu: in that way, all the mechatronic stuff they use in movies qualifies, even though it's just remote controlled
07:36 AM deshipu: therealdurrf: I think they mimic the function of a mouse or other small animal
07:37 AM therealdurrf: ah
07:37 AM deshipu: besides, even if they are not robots, they still involve a lot of techniques you would use building robots, so it's still relevant
07:38 AM mumptai: nah, thats rc toys
07:39 AM mumptai: more a extension of a human, than a robot
07:39 AM mumptai: but still fun to build and operate. in general, don't know about those two
07:40 AM mumptai: also it is still called robot fighting, also mostly no robots are harmed ;)
07:40 AM therealdurrf: one is a design i stole from thingiverse, the other is just servos and a receiver hotglued to a usb battery bank
07:44 AM mumptai: why is the definition important?
07:47 AM therealdurrf: some poeple are difficult like that
08:06 AM therealdurrf: i got the trick to properly center the potentiomenters on these servos for continuous conversion
08:07 AM therealdurrf: too bad my other model of servos are so drastically different, the same trick dosnt work on those :(
08:16 AM deshipu: they usually have a trimer on the back
08:34 AM rue_bed: its usually the positionong pot thats been disconnected from the output shaft
08:48 AM therealdurrf: the 2nd model i have has the shaft connecting to the potentiometer molded into one of the gears, i have to take the entire thing out of the housing, including the motor in order to access the potentiometer enough thta i can glue it in place
08:49 AM therealdurrf: dosnt matter, i have use for them as regular servos anyway
08:49 AM therealdurrf: lol
09:08 AM ldlework: Anyone showing up for Robo Duels tonight?
09:13 AM therealdurrf: no but im probably gonna be doing something similar at my house tonight lol
09:14 AM therealdurrf: oh wait this is online?
09:14 AM therealdurrf: dang
12:16 PM ldlework: Yo!
12:16 PM ldlework: Don't forget
12:16 PM ldlework: Free RoboDuels tonight at 6PM EST
12:16 PM ldlework: https://roboduels.com/
04:30 PM mumptai: fighthing robots as a service?
04:30 PM ldlework: yes
04:30 PM ldlework: join up
04:30 PM ldlework: its fricken free
04:30 PM ldlework: https://roboduels.com
04:30 PM ldlework: half hour
04:30 PM mumptai: "service fee"?
04:30 PM ldlework: no it's free free
04:31 PM ldlework: it's like super alpha, they don't charge yet
04:31 PM ldlework: been playing for a few weeks now
04:31 PM mumptai: k
04:31 PM ldlework: so fun
04:31 PM mumptai: how about doing this autonomous?
04:32 PM ldlework: that's the plan
04:33 PM ldlework: afaik they plan to have a bunch of fully automated arenas
04:33 PM ldlework: that you can play on at anytime
04:33 PM mumptai: more like: play==programming
04:34 PM mumptai: i think there was a raspberry pi thing
04:34 PM ldlework: i have told them that programmable robots would be amazing
04:34 PM mumptai: like that
04:34 PM ldlework: and they don't hate the idea
04:34 PM ldlework: i actually have access to all the github repos
04:34 PM ldlework: they're interested in hiring me but i don't think they can afford right now :)
04:34 PM mumptai: but your target audience shrinks
04:35 PM ldlework: yeah right now they're going for the everyone bets a dollar
04:35 PM ldlework: something like that
04:35 PM ldlework: you should sign up and play
04:35 PM mumptai: i did years of robot competition things, and basically only the teams themself were the audience, or at least 90% of it
04:35 PM ldlework: at least check it out
04:35 PM ldlework: nice!
04:35 PM ldlework: oh
04:35 PM ldlework: for betting
04:35 PM ldlework: it's the players
04:36 PM ldlework: you bet on yourself
04:36 PM ldlework: lol
04:36 PM ldlework: like you pay a dollar and can win everyone else's dollars
04:36 PM ldlework: i dunno, free robot fights is all i needed to hear
04:37 PM mumptai: i go more for the engineering part
04:37 PM ldlework: well this is freenode
04:37 PM ldlework: :)
04:38 PM therealdurrf: i dont want to play but can i watch
04:38 PM ldlework: https://www.twitch.tv/roboduels
04:38 PM therealdurrf: (i dont want to play because im building some tiny fighting robots myself
04:38 PM therealdurrf: thanks
04:38 PM ldlework: discord, https://discord.gg/NAnsSH
04:39 PM therealdurrf: i thought about putting cameras on mine but im not planning on only building pusher bots
04:41 PM ldlework: therealdurrf: i seen their VC presentation
04:41 PM ldlework: they have huge plans over the next 5 years
04:42 PM ldlework: NDA an all though :(
04:42 PM therealdurrf: thats cool
04:42 PM ldlework: they need talent too soo
04:42 PM therealdurrf: i played a game like this where you control a tank and its set in chernobyl
04:42 PM therealdurrf: these telepresence games are pretty cool
04:42 PM therealdurrf: the chernobyl set was amazing
04:43 PM ldlework: they had this bug
04:43 PM ldlework: where the websocket server sent input commands every 100 ms
04:43 PM ldlework: and the bot would get the event and send an event from the rpi to the bridge
04:43 PM ldlework: and then sleep for 65ms
04:43 PM therealdurrf: turn based?
04:43 PM ldlework: and i was like...
04:43 PM ldlework: this makes... no sense
04:44 PM ldlework: i have never done robotics, but i have made multiplayer realtime games using websockets
04:44 PM ldlework: lol and 100ms input cycle is trash
04:44 PM ldlework: let's put this down to 10ms and make it the same on the bots
04:44 PM ldlework: hoooooolly shit
04:44 PM ldlework: before, the bots would go forward
04:44 PM ldlework: but they'd do these little wheelies as they went forward
04:44 PM ldlework: and it was loud too because they were slamming the ground
04:45 PM ldlework: the reason is because they'd accelerate then stop, then accelerate, but fast enough that overall they'd go forward
04:45 PM ldlework: so no one ever looked into it
04:45 PM ldlework: now they are butter smooth :)
04:45 PM ldlework: i told them the first one is free
04:45 PM ldlework: lol
04:48 PM mumptai: how laggy is twitch?
04:49 PM therealdurrf: twitch has a huge delay, if trhats what you mean
04:50 PM mumptai: so, there is a need for low latency video streaming
04:51 PM mumptai: actually for all telerobotics applications
04:51 PM therealdurrf: no, you dont play through twitch
04:51 PM mumptai: k
04:51 PM therealdurrf: the delay is intentional
04:51 PM therealdurrf: for other games then this, really
04:51 PM ldlework: no you play through a webrtc interface on the website
04:51 PM ldlework: and i listen to him via discord voice chat
04:52 PM therealdurrf: twitch plays roboduels
04:52 PM therealdurrf: lmao
04:54 PM mumptai: whats the webrtc ltency?
04:55 PM mumptai: +a
04:55 PM ldlework: under 100ms i'd say
04:55 PM ldlework: if i had to throw a dart, 60ms
04:56 PM mumptai: is there a way to do stereo video?
04:56 PM ldlework: no idea if i'm good at guesstimating that kind of thing
04:56 PM ldlework: hahaha
04:56 PM ldlework: that'd be sick
04:56 PM ldlework: get it going in VR headsets
04:56 PM therealdurrf: yes you can easily do stereo video
04:56 PM mumptai: how??
04:57 PM therealdurrf: two cameras
04:57 PM ldlework: lol
04:57 PM therealdurrf: theres standards for side by side video playback
04:57 PM mumptai: but you need temporal stereo consitency
04:58 PM therealdurrf: i dont know how feasable it would be and anything VR with latency makes you vomit instantly
04:58 PM therealdurrf: thinking about it for a second
04:58 PM therealdurrf: i mean, you can do it through 5.8ghz wireless video
04:58 PM ldlework: yeah not over the internet
04:58 PM ldlework: that'd be horrid
04:58 PM ldlework: maybe as a spectator
04:59 PM therealdurrf: without headtracking though
04:59 PM mumptai: static perspective?
04:59 PM ldlework: you can do 360 video
04:59 PM therealdurrf: yeah, that way would be a lot easier on your senses id imagine
04:59 PM ldlework: it wont be 3D
04:59 PM ldlework: but you can look around
04:59 PM therealdurrf: you can do 3d 360 video with like 100 cameras id imagine
04:59 PM ldlework: people can do that on their phones too
05:00 PM mumptai: i guess piloting might be more timing sensitive
05:00 PM ldlework: yeah
05:00 PM therealdurrf: if it were for something like threading a needle it would be next to impossible but for pushing another robot off the mat
05:02 PM ldlework: if you're watching
05:02 PM ldlework: I'm green
05:03 PM ldlework: oh it hasn't started
05:04 PM therealdurrf: watching
05:07 PM ldlework: I switched to black
05:10 PM ldlework: lol oops
05:14 PM therealdurrf: noo
05:15 PM ldlework: my cat!
05:15 PM ldlework: walked over my laptop!
05:15 PM ldlework: wtf!
05:16 PM therealdurrf: lol the robots are so loud
05:16 PM ldlework: dang
05:16 PM therealdurrf: very close
05:16 PM ldlework: -.-
05:17 PM therealdurrf: mr magic is on fire damn
05:17 PM ldlework: i know wtf
05:17 PM ldlework: he usually sucks lol
05:17 PM therealdurrf: niuce
05:19 PM therealdurrf: fuck
05:20 PM therealdurrf: maybe its cheats
05:20 PM ldlework: lol
05:20 PM ldlework: either way
05:20 PM ldlework: its so fun
05:20 PM therealdurrf: overvolting
05:20 PM ldlework: get's my heart going
05:20 PM therealdurrf: haha
05:20 PM therealdurrf: im gonna probably have a fight tonight
05:20 PM therealdurrf: irl
05:22 PM ldlework: lol
05:22 PM ldlework: phew
05:22 PM therealdurrf: pow
05:23 PM ldlework: hahaha
05:23 PM ldlework: that was hilarious
05:29 PM ldlework: jesus
05:32 PM therealdurrf: lmao wtf is this
05:32 PM ldlework: hahaha
05:32 PM ldlework: we're checking lag
05:32 PM ldlework: you can see it in the jitter of the spin
05:32 PM ldlework: remember this is super alpha
05:33 PM ldlework: so we try to debug and help him figure how things might be misbehaving
05:33 PM therealdurrf: i love this sort of thing
05:33 PM therealdurrf: i love that www.runmyrobot.com shit
05:35 PM therealdurrf: lmoa "GO TO YOUR CORNER" sounds like a parent chastising their child
05:36 PM therealdurrf: what a beast
05:38 PM therealdurrf: he needs an intern to reset the bots for him
05:39 PM ldlework: its really hard to play tonight
05:39 PM ldlework: the latency has high jitter
05:39 PM ldlework: worst i'd say ever
05:40 PM therealdurrf: are you wired via ethernet?
07:00 PM teej: Look at this: https://motus-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Oct-03-2018-13-38-46-1.gif
07:03 PM teej: It looks cool. I'm not sure if that will be reliable, though.
11:14 PM teej: Is anyone on this channel alive?
11:14 PM zhanx: yep
11:15 PM rue_mohr: too many moving parts to be reliable
11:15 PM zhanx: that and timing
11:16 PM rue_mohr: 3d print one :)
11:16 PM zhanx: you could
11:17 PM zhanx: I am not wasting the print time on it
11:17 PM rue_mohr: its not for me
11:17 PM rue_mohr: its cool tho, full points for that
11:18 PM zhanx: oh rue that air spinner works with your breathe, it spins like crazy
11:18 PM rue_mohr: cool
11:18 PM rue_mohr: it prints assembled, right?
11:18 PM zhanx: yep
11:19 PM zhanx: really its a gimbal
11:19 PM rue_mohr: yea
11:20 PM zhanx: April the school has a science fair, i need to come up with something for it
11:22 PM zhanx: how does volcano sound?
11:23 PM rue_mohr: ldlework, bah, I'm not into the signup
11:23 PM rue_mohr: zhanx, lame, you have a 3d printer
11:23 PM zhanx: rue_mohr, your thinking inside a box
11:24 PM rue_mohr: how old is the spawn
11:24 PM zhanx: inject the chemicals etc., 10
11:24 PM rue_mohr: 10
11:24 PM zhanx: well 10 and 5
11:24 PM rue_mohr: 2 years before building a robot
11:24 PM rue_mohr: hmm
11:24 PM zhanx: nope you saw his lego bot we are working on
11:25 PM rue_mohr: how much guardian influence is likeley permissable?
11:26 PM zhanx: "we" as in him with me saying ok you made that part now test it to see how it fails
11:26 PM zhanx: rue_mohr, lots, but i an the only "computer guy" in the area so i have to self limit
11:26 PM zhanx: the two engineers with kids at the school help them a ton
11:26 PM rue_mohr: do know how to design 3d printed parts with a felt marker?
11:27 PM zhanx: ?
11:27 PM rue_mohr: "inkscape"
11:27 PM rue_mohr: }:)
11:27 PM zhanx: yep
11:27 PM zhanx: its how i made the cookie cutters of their hands
11:27 PM rue_mohr: so, he can design 2.5D parts
11:28 PM zhanx: has the idea at least
11:28 PM rue_mohr: hmm
11:29 PM zhanx: had to take the oldest out of boy scouts
11:30 PM rue_mohr: how about a binary half adder using relays made from 3d printed parts?
11:31 PM rue_mohr: 3 bit
11:31 PM zhanx: oh good idea
11:31 PM rue_mohr: you dont have to use the 3d printer really
11:31 PM rue_mohr: but it adds to the wow
11:31 PM zhanx: he is bad at math so that would help him
11:31 PM zhanx: its a really good idea
11:32 PM rue_mohr: a nail driven into a board with a coil on it pulling on a peice of sheetmetal is a relay
11:32 PM rue_mohr: break in the concept of binary as " you have to stop counting at 1, and bump up the next digit"
11:32 PM zhanx: yep
11:33 PM zhanx: i was thinking more a tilt board but that works too
11:33 PM rue_mohr: 3 bits is a smackload of relays, but not tooo insane I dont think
11:34 PM rue_mohr: electronics, binary, math, and maybe some nail banging
11:34 PM zhanx: wife woke up, saw the air spinner said print 40 of them
11:34 PM rue_mohr: need any 22 guage copper wire for winding relay coils?? :)
11:35 PM zhanx: ummm no
11:35 PM zhanx: I have a "bit"
11:35 PM rue_mohr: I still dont understand her standpoints
11:35 PM zhanx: to her all the kids in their classes need one
11:35 PM rue_mohr: seems quite positive tho :)
11:35 PM zhanx: its a toy
11:36 PM zhanx: she doesnt get the hard science of it
11:36 PM rue_mohr: .. hard science...
11:36 PM zhanx: aka how it works
11:36 PM rue_mohr: you know, if it weren't for the 3d modeling and the slicing, we could have been making 3d printers in 1980
11:36 PM zhanx: yep
11:37 PM rue_mohr: I printed the cable comb, you know those sell for $70 online?
11:37 PM rue_mohr: play with it tommmorow
11:37 PM zhanx: for what 10 cents
11:38 PM rue_mohr: not if you print it with 6 perims and 40% infill :/
11:38 PM rue_mohr: (oops)
11:38 PM zhanx: hey i printed that jack brace test at 6 perims and 80% infill, it lifted the car
11:38 PM rue_mohr: I have spools of plastic everywhere, people keep saying "hey I want" and "here's money for a roll of plastic in my colour"
11:39 PM rue_mohr: whaaat?
11:39 PM zhanx: I am starting to get that too
11:39 PM rue_mohr: jack brace?
11:39 PM zhanx: thought i told you about that
11:39 PM zhanx: I printed a 3" spool
11:39 PM rue_mohr: I heard you mention to tom, but I dont know anymore
11:40 PM zhanx: it was a test piece its broke now, it took 8 tons to to crush it
11:40 PM rue_mohr: spool?
11:40 PM rue_mohr: whaaaat?
11:40 PM rue_mohr: what shape?
11:41 PM zhanx: cylinder, with 8 holes spaced out etc
11:41 PM rue_mohr: FOR lifting a car?
11:41 PM rue_mohr: or just playin around?
11:41 PM zhanx: it lifted my toy, so i took it to the shop i worked at, at 8 tons it failed
11:42 PM zhanx: playing around and strength test
11:42 PM rue_mohr: puf
11:42 PM rue_mohr: 3"? dia?
11:42 PM zhanx: you know i need to play and test and yes
11:42 PM zhanx: my jack head is 3.25"
11:42 PM * rue_mohr laughs and shakes head...
11:43 PM zhanx: laugh now
11:43 PM zhanx: you know i am making another elf soon
11:43 PM rue_mohr: but I'll tell ya, you put 100lbs tension on that same print and it wont take it for even 24 hours
11:43 PM zhanx: that i didn't do
11:44 PM rue_mohr: pla does NOT take to tension
11:44 PM zhanx: but, i saw something on heat treating prints to test
11:44 PM rue_mohr: thats why I have to remake a pile of parts for the printers
11:44 PM rue_mohr: and why that collar is metal
11:44 PM rue_mohr: it changes the mode to compression for the gears
11:44 PM zhanx: I am gonna print a hook and heat treat it
11:44 PM rue_mohr: and they last
11:45 PM zhanx: then add weights over time to test
11:45 PM rue_mohr: I'v made a bunch of hooks for me
11:45 PM rue_mohr: ma
11:45 PM rue_mohr: not heavy ones, but over time they let go with any weight
11:45 PM zhanx: if the heat treating works, then i will let you know
11:46 PM rue_mohr: almost all recoded failures are tearing under tension
11:46 PM rue_mohr: not direct stretch tension
11:47 PM rue_mohr: the sprayer trigger is a good example
11:47 PM rue_mohr: lots of the triggers were breaking, we severly beefed them up (more perims) and I'v not heard complaints, but...
11:48 PM zhanx: ok i will do the prints tomorrow, 100% 105 , 110, 120 all x2 and heat treat half of them
11:49 PM rue_mohr: html results eh?
11:49 PM zhanx: https://rigid.ink/blogs/news/how-to-anneal-your-3d-prints-for-strength
11:49 PM zhanx: that is were i started at
11:50 PM zhanx: then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZX8eHC7fws
11:50 PM zhanx: https://hackaday.com/2017/06/17/annealing-plastic-for-stronger-prints/
11:51 PM zhanx: after that you can search
11:51 PM rue_mohr: just tell results as a page
11:52 PM zhanx: k
11:53 PM rue_mohr: now I need a new funnel
11:53 PM zhanx: either way it is something to test out
11:53 PM rue_mohr: hmmm, supper
11:54 PM zhanx: rice "meat loaf" with potatoes and corn was mine
11:55 PM zhanx: i used eggs as the protein