#robotics Logs

Nov 13 2018

02:40 AM Jak_o_Shadows: I need to dial the support interface gap waaaaay up
08:51 AM rue_mohr: I took to designing in my own support cause so far trying to break off support material hasn't worked out
08:53 AM durrf: support materials are a pain until you get them dialed in
08:54 AM durrf: 1mm interface layer, a slightly larger then default gap between interface and the print, i forget what type of pattern i put on the top of the interface layer though
08:55 AM durrf: https://i.imgur.com/e0TAR1O.jpg these supports were trapped inside the print but i was able to get most of it out in one piece
08:55 AM durrf: https://i.imgur.com/QSfRJzW.jpg theres also this lip on the outside that had supports in it, flathead behind it popped it right out
09:00 AM rue_mohr: still find it more succesfull on average to design with support
09:01 AM rue_mohr: so, why didn't you print that upside down anyhow?
09:01 AM rue_mohr: and what is it?
09:02 AM durrf: i wanted the top to be clean, its part of a tiny hovercraft that inever got around to finishing
09:02 AM rue_mohr: fair enough
09:03 AM durrf: https://i.imgur.com/0JLzDW8.jpg only missing the skirt, and probably gotta swap motors around
09:19 AM rue_mohr: is it light enough?
09:21 AM durrf: yeah the skirt has to be added, you can use a plastic bag
09:23 AM rue_mohr: where are th props from?
09:23 AM rue_mohr: where are the props from
09:23 AM rue_mohr: oops\
09:24 AM durrf: the electronics, ducts and everything but the camera (and printed parts) are from a 20 dollar toy quadcopter
09:24 AM durrf: motors, props, battery...
09:24 AM durrf: but i can probably get away with a heavier battery too
10:47 AM SpeedEvil: :)
04:48 PM jennie: I am looking for the best BGA rework flux, I googled and found people are recommending KESTER186 Rosin Flux, please can you tell me, what do you guys use and where do you buy it from?
05:12 PM Tom_L: i believe that's the one i use however i'm not sure you can still get that one since everything is RoHS now
05:14 PM jennie: Tom_L: where to buy it from?
05:15 PM Tom_L: i got mine from digikey
05:16 PM Tom_L: https://www.digikey.com/products/en/soldering-desoldering-rework-products/flux-flux-remover/266?k=kester+flux+pen&k=&pkeyword=kester+flux+pen&s=10536&sf=0&quantity=&ColumnSort=0&page=1&pageSize=25
06:04 PM jennie: thx
10:02 PM rue_mohr: ok, cam software
10:04 PM rue_mohr: I been trying to name a data type for 3 days
10:04 PM rue_mohr: gee I hate trying to name things
10:04 PM rue_mohr: I was once stuck without a computer for almost a week cause I could not come up with a fitting name for it
10:05 PM rue_mohr: This is your opportunity to help out rue
10:05 PM rue_mohr: the object he needs to name, consits of two things, the details of a generic cnc operation, and a list of the entities that the operation is applied to
10:06 PM rue_mohr: what should rue call this ?
10:10 PM Tom_L: what does it do?
10:10 PM rue_mohr: ok
10:11 PM Tom_L: mill turn plasma edm what?
10:11 PM rue_mohr: you know how in 2.5d cam, you choose objects and say soemthing like 'pocket'?
10:11 PM Tom_L: i don't
10:11 PM Tom_L: but ok
10:11 PM rue_mohr: hu?
10:11 PM Tom_L: i define my own cutter paths
10:11 PM rue_mohr: so you have always either done full 3d cam or written the nc file by hand????
10:11 PM Tom_L: typically with a wall offset or something
10:11 PM Tom_L: no
10:12 PM rue_mohr: what if you cad/cam just a circle out of some material?
10:12 PM Tom_L: the pocket op isn't that efficient on mine
10:12 PM rue_mohr: so you hand code it!?
10:12 PM Tom_L: i just draw a circle then
10:12 PM Tom_L: i could
10:12 PM Tom_L: X Y I J
10:12 PM Tom_L: is all you need
10:12 PM rue_mohr: pocket
10:12 PM rue_mohr: so, say your pocketing a star into some material
10:13 PM rue_mohr: the whole profile of the star is hollowed out of the material
10:13 PM Tom_L: then you need to decide if you select the inside or outside boundary
10:13 PM rue_mohr: maybe thats why this stiuff isn't out thre, maybe I actaully am inventing it
10:13 PM Tom_L: it could go either way
10:13 PM Tom_L: trust me, it's been done
10:13 PM rue_mohr: ok, so in my invention,
10:14 PM Tom_L: it's out there it's just not free
10:14 PM rue_mohr: you can do soemthing like selelct a path in a dxf file, and choose an operation like , mill inside, mill outside, pocket, or engrave
10:15 PM rue_mohr: so, it breaks down into an operation, and some 2d entities that the operation is applied to
10:15 PM rue_mohr: and that is the data structure I need to name
10:16 PM rue_mohr: typedef struct asdf_s {
10:16 PM rue_mohr: int ** EListIdx;
10:16 PM rue_mohr: cncOp_t oper;
10:16 PM rue_mohr: } asdf_t;
10:16 PM rue_mohr: the user will build a list of these, and they will become the cnc job
10:17 PM Tom_L: will it remember what it's already cut?
10:17 PM rue_mohr: it does not have to
10:17 PM Tom_L: so you don't have to go back and eliminate that part
10:17 PM Tom_L: i rough cut a pocket and leave .020" for a finish pass
10:18 PM Tom_L: the finish cut operation knows it can rapid down where the material used to be now
10:18 PM rue_mohr: you are asking it to perform the operation on those 2d boudries, with the specifics in the operation
10:18 PM rue_mohr: finish cuts and all that are details of the operation
10:18 PM rue_mohr: this is the 'union' of an operation, and a set of 2d entities
10:21 PM rue_mohr: is a job a series of processes?
10:21 PM rue_mohr: hmmm
10:21 PM rue_mohr: I used the term operation to describe it outside th context of what its being done to
10:22 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gui/ngcgui.html
10:22 PM Tom_L: there are a few primitives linuxcnc has available
10:22 PM rue_mohr: its a cam thing, linuxcnc does not ahve that
10:22 PM Tom_L: it does
10:22 PM rue_mohr: no, otherwise I would not need to write this
10:23 PM rue_mohr: your just somhow not understanding what I'm up to
10:23 PM Tom_L: it has add on tabs that let you define things like pockets and it will generate the code for them
10:24 PM rue_mohr: I can load a 2d profile from a dxf file and say "pocket these paths" and then say "engrave this bit" and then say "drill these points like <this>" and then drill those points like <that> " and it'll spit out a nc file that does all those tings
10:24 PM rue_mohr: 2d profile from dxf, not just circles and squares
10:24 PM Tom_L: i understand what you're doing
10:24 PM Tom_L: 2d is comprised of basic shapes
10:25 PM Tom_L: lines and arcs
10:25 PM rue_mohr: no its comprised of complex paths with infinite primitives
10:25 PM rue_mohr: ;)
10:25 PM Tom_L: after it's been processed maybe
10:25 PM Tom_L: a dxf is lines and arcs
10:26 PM Tom_L: at it's basic form
10:26 PM rue_mohr: everyone forgot about 2.5d, and its what I eat, sleep, and breathe
10:26 PM Tom_L: it's just 2d with depth
10:26 PM Tom_L: still flat patterns
10:26 PM rue_mohr: https://d2.alternativeto.net/dist/s/mastercam_313328_full.jpg?format=jpg&width=1600&height=1600&mode=min&upscale=false
10:26 PM rue_mohr: they call it a toolpath
10:27 PM Tom_L: yeah they all have input dialog boxes for things like that
10:27 PM Tom_L: fusion 360, mastercam, catia.... etc
10:28 PM rue_mohr: yea, thats what I'm writing
10:28 PM rue_mohr: just not with the stupid 3d profiling junk
10:28 PM Tom_L: but the go beyond 2.5d
10:28 PM rue_mohr: cause everyone is doing the profileing junk
10:28 PM rue_mohr: if I want to cut a circle out of a peice of lexan I sure the hell dont want to have to have it processed from a freakiong stl model
10:28 PM rue_mohr: <rant>
10:29 PM Tom_L: heh
10:29 PM Tom_L: i hate stl
10:30 PM Tom_L: might be ok for a 3d glue gun
10:30 PM rue_mohr: I agree
10:30 PM Tom_L: most of the commercial cad cam are moving to a universal tool set defined my a group including tool manufacturers etc
10:31 PM rue_mohr: all the cnc work I do is drilling, profiling, pocketing
10:31 PM Tom_L: so the whole tooling set is pre'defined
10:31 PM Tom_L: to save time defining the characteristics of a particular tool
10:31 PM Tom_L: and it's abilities
10:32 PM rue_mohr: https://engineerharry.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/43-mastercam-final.png
10:32 PM rue_mohr: toolpath
10:32 PM Tom_L: and you can create custom tool libs
10:32 PM rue_mohr: yes, actually, that name works
10:32 PM rue_mohr: its a path, and a tool
10:32 PM rue_mohr: well kinda
10:32 PM Tom_L: where did you get mastercam?
10:32 PM rue_mohr: its a operationpath
10:32 PM rue_mohr: I didn't I 'm scraping images off the internet
10:33 PM rue_mohr: I have mastercam, but to dongle
10:33 PM rue_mohr: and it doesn't run on linux
10:33 PM Tom_L: as the gods intended
10:33 PM rue_mohr: I'm writing something that only runs on linux
10:33 PM Tom_L: :)
10:33 PM rue_mohr: its revenge
10:34 PM Tom_L: it takes a considerable amount of time to define what each tool can do and how to apply it to a model
10:34 PM rue_mohr: processPath?
10:35 PM rue_mohr: thats the great part, I dont have to care
10:35 PM rue_mohr: the user handles it
10:35 PM rue_mohr: I just need to know what they want to do with the 2d path,
10:35 PM rue_mohr: or point
10:35 PM rue_mohr: I'm starting with drilling, cause no software can do that in a way that doesn't result in cnc commands supported by grbl
10:37 PM rue_mohr: hmm they call is geometry and params
10:38 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/nc_files/ngcgui_lib/qpocket.ngc
10:38 PM rue_mohr: its ok, I'll write soemthing taht can do 'it all'
10:39 PM rue_mohr: its been 20 years, I'm not going to put down the axe this time
10:39 PM Tom_L: that dir has the subs called for various operations
10:40 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/nc_files/ngcgui_lib/hole_circle.ngc
10:40 PM Tom_L: bolt hole circle
10:40 PM Tom_L: for example
10:40 PM rue_mohr: mhm
10:41 PM Tom_L: the first one was for a pocket definition
10:41 PM rue_mohr: "Works for most rectangles and parallelograms but may require some care"
10:41 PM Tom_L: written 7 years ago
10:41 PM rue_mohr: mine, you load a dxf (it already does that) and select your entities, and apply the operation
10:41 PM rue_mohr: *done*
10:42 PM Tom_L: if you have a parallelogram with a sharp angle your cutter will barf on it
10:42 PM Tom_L: is what they mean to say
10:42 PM rue_mohr: nope, clipper library
10:42 PM rue_mohr: it creates a path that does not overcut
10:43 PM rue_mohr: on whatever side of the profile you want
10:43 PM rue_mohr: all I have to do is translate the 5500 line file to C
10:43 PM Tom_L: using cutter comp?
10:43 PM * rue_mohr tries to hold a straight face
10:43 PM rue_mohr: no, clipper offsets a path
10:44 PM rue_mohr: it also does 2d csg
10:44 PM Tom_L: that's kinda what i mean i think
10:44 PM rue_mohr: :)
10:44 PM Tom_L: programs the tool edge not the center
10:44 PM rue_mohr: I swear you went from mechanically programmed machines to catia...
10:44 PM rue_mohr: but you said that dos program is 2.5d
10:45 PM rue_mohr: but again, i'm going for linux
10:45 PM Triffid_Hunter: Doom was 2.5d :P
10:45 PM rue_mohr: I'v just had it with there being nothing for linux
10:45 PM Tom_L: yeah i have a dos one and a windows version that is 2.5d as well as the full 3d package
10:45 PM Tom_L: 3 versions i believe
10:45 PM rue_mohr: Triffid_Hunter, doom was totally 3d!
10:45 PM Tom_L: the dos one is purely 2.5d
10:45 PM rue_mohr: mac games were 2.5!
10:46 PM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: clipper library has hugely improved thanks to slic3r.. slic3r folks found tons of edge cases and stuff in it
10:46 PM rue_mohr: Triffid_Hunter, were talking about the 2014 ver right?
10:46 PM rue_mohr: the 5500 line c++ ....pile?
10:46 PM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: no the first couple from the '90s :P
10:46 PM rue_mohr: but the 2014 is the good stuff right?
10:47 PM rue_mohr: http://www.angusj.com/delphi/clipper.php
10:47 PM rue_mohr: that , right?
10:47 PM Tom_L: keep the light shining on your part of the globe. i'm goin to sleep
10:47 PM rue_mohr: >:/ damnit I need to build a keybaord too
10:48 PM rue_mohr: Triffid_Hunter, ?
10:48 PM rue_mohr: hey, before I convert the 5500 lines to C, tell me I'm starting with the right version!
10:49 PM rue_mohr: I got it down to 3100 lines last week
10:49 PM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: hmm I guess so
10:49 PM Triffid_Hunter: was trying to find a link to it in slic3r source
10:50 PM Tom_L: https://sourceforge.net/projects/polyclipping/
10:52 PM Tom_L: seems newer than 2014
10:52 PM Triffid_Hunter: yeah the one in slic3r is marked as v6.4.2, february 2017
10:53 PM Tom_L: last update 2 days ago
10:54 PM Triffid_Hunter: wow, sourceforge seems to be abysmally slow, guess they're struggling
10:54 PM Tom_L: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~toby/gpc/
10:54 PM Tom_L: may be the one you're looking at
10:55 PM Triffid_Hunter: Tom_L: hmm, NC license though
10:55 PM rue_mohr: eek
10:56 PM Tom_L: well, i'm out.
10:57 PM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: https://sourceforge.net/projects/polyclipping/files/Alpha-Beta Releases/ may interest you
10:57 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/skyrpex/clipper
10:57 PM Tom_L: dunno if that's a mirror or something else
10:57 PM Tom_L: looks older
10:58 PM Triffid_Hunter: just says it's a mirror
10:59 PM rue_mohr: uh, the change log stops at 2015
11:00 PM Triffid_Hunter: yeah I noticed that
11:08 PM rue_mohr: oh I had the right versiion
11:09 PM rue_mohr: apparently the 2014 version was updated in 2017
11:14 PM rue_mohr: ok, anyhow