#robotics Logs
Sep 20 2018
#robotics Calendar
12:03 AM rue_mohr: zippo:/morfiles/Installs/arduino-generic/Arduino/tools# ./espota.py -i 192.168.8.186 -p 8266 -f OTALeds.ino.bin
12:07 AM rue_mohr: 22:02:34 [ERROR]: Bad Answer: ERR: ERROR[8]: Flash config wrong real: 1048576 IDE: 4194304
12:07 AM ace4016: Tom_L, i don't sell kits
12:55 AM rue_mohr: zhanx, yay I win!!!!!
12:55 AM rue_mohr: I'm the first to find a new OTA bug
12:55 AM rue_mohr: if the code thats on it has the wrong flash size set, it will not accep the new file, casue it says the NEW FILEs flash size is wrong
01:00 AM mrdata_: "OTA"?
01:01 AM rue_mohr: over the air
01:01 AM rue_mohr: firware updates
01:01 AM rue_mohr: esp8266
01:02 AM rue_mohr: I want to close up the electronics on the coffeemaker I'm modifying and write the sofware later
01:08 AM mrdata_: maybe this is a feature, not a bug; ie: it requires the firmware to know how much flash memory it has, so it wont over-run memory?
01:08 AM rue_mohr: no no you dont understand
01:08 AM mrdata_: apparently
01:08 AM rue_mohr: its not accepting it bcecuase the firmware thats ALREADY ON IT is wrong
01:08 AM rue_mohr: not because the new image is wrong
01:08 AM mrdata_: oh, you bricked it?
01:09 AM rue_mohr: no I can re-upload via usb
01:09 AM rue_mohr: cause, apparently, that method doesn't check the memory sizes for a match
01:11 AM rue_mohr: huh
01:16 AM rue_mohr: load 0x4010f000, len 1384, room 16
01:16 AM rue_mohr: tail 8
01:16 AM rue_mohr: chksum 0x2d
01:16 AM rue_mohr: csum 0x2d
01:16 AM rue_mohr: vbb28d4a3
01:16 AM rue_mohr: @cp:0
01:16 AM rue_mohr: ld
01:16 AM rue_mohr: Booting
01:16 AM rue_mohr: Hey world, hows it hang'n?
01:16 AM rue_mohr: ok, my updat worked, I'm going to bed now...
05:54 AM iticus: hello! I'm trying to determine the final position (lat, lng, alt) of an object based on initial position, IMU data (roll, pitch yaw) and distance. think of a selfie stick that instead of the camera has a GPS+IMU device - I'm trying to calculate the position of the hand holding the stick ...
05:56 AM polprog: should be a simple vector operation
05:58 AM iticus: I tried implementing rotation matrices, also tried using three.js but I can't see to be able to get the parameters / rotation order right ...
05:59 AM iticus: but perhaps I'm looking at it the wrong way because order does not seem to be important because a final position has the same roll, pitch and yaw values regardless of how you get in that position
06:03 AM iticus: so maybe rotations is not what I need
08:31 AM rue_bed: use known good matrix code if your going to use matrixies, or if you want some speed, dont use matrixies
08:31 AM SpeedEvil: iticus: you need to track all the acellerations as time goes on.
08:31 AM SpeedEvil: And work out the vector addition as you're going.
08:31 AM rue_bed: if you want I have a point library, but you wont likie it, its in C
08:31 AM SpeedEvil: Kalman filters are the typical way to do this.
08:32 AM SpeedEvil: Also note that with typical accelerometers, your solution will drift rapidly.
08:32 AM rue_bed: not done a kalman yet, how do you train them?
08:33 AM SpeedEvil: Of the orders of five meters or so a minute best case, 50km in ten minutes.
08:34 AM rue_bed: not done a kalman yet, how do you train them?
08:34 AM rue_bed: just let them sit and work out the background noise?
08:34 AM iticus: I'm using the GPS for initial position; I will only use the IMU data (roll, pitch, yaw) to determine the orientation of the rod
08:35 AM iticus: AFAIK filters are already implemented (I'm using RTIMULib2 to get the values from the IMU - MPU9250)
08:36 AM SpeedEvil: You do know you can't get orientation without magnetometer?
08:36 AM SpeedEvil: Or assuming that you're pointing in the direction you're moving?
08:37 AM iticus: MPU-9250 has magnetometer, gyroscope and accelerometer ...
08:38 AM iticus: from what I can tell when moving the device around the values for roll, pitch and yaw are correct
08:38 AM SpeedEvil: So what's the issue?
08:38 AM SpeedEvil: Just integrate roll, pitch, yaw, and the observed accellerations?
08:39 AM iticus: I'm not sure the acceleration values are needed - only the orientation which I'm not mistaken is described by roll, pitch and yaw
08:40 AM iticus: for a give (static) position I need to calculate the "hand position" holding the selfie stick
08:41 AM SpeedEvil: Do you mean hand orientation?
08:41 AM iticus: so I have GPS position (x=lng, y=lat, z=alt), selfie stick length (2 meters) and roll, pitch and yaw values
08:41 AM SpeedEvil: (not caring about lat/lon/alt)
08:43 AM iticus: but those are the base of the calculation because Xhand = Xgps + LEN * func_X(roll, pitch, yaw), Yhand = Ygps + LEN * func_Y(roll, pitch, yaw) and Zhand = Zgps + LEN * func_Z(roll, pitch, yaw)
08:43 AM iticus: what I'm looking for are the functions (func_X, func_Y and func_Z)
08:44 AM SpeedEvil: Do you actually care about computing the offset from the GPS position? Or is assuming it is aligned with the stick direction OK?
08:45 AM SpeedEvil: Because then that's simple trig - GPS offset, length of rod, angle of rod, ...
08:45 AM iticus: as an example when the selfie stick is perfectly vertical and is indicating north (roll=0, pitch=0, yaw=0) => Xhand = Xgps, Yhand = Ygps and Zhand = Zgps - LEN) ...
08:46 AM SpeedEvil: Are you measuring the stick angle, or the angle of something attached to the stick in an unknown location?
08:46 AM iticus: I think simple trigonometry should do the trick but I'm having a hard time with the functions ...
08:47 AM SpeedEvil: ^in an unknown relative orientation to the stick
08:47 AM SpeedEvil: If you know what it should be, start out by working it out and checking it by hand.
08:48 AM iticus: this is the device: https://emlid.com/reachrs/ - see the photo with the guy holding the rod (selfie stick)
08:49 AM iticus: it illustrates the case above (with r=0, p=0, y=0)
08:49 AM SpeedEvil: If your sensor is on the stick, it is simply calculable.
08:50 AM iticus: yes, the sensor is fixed on one end of the stick and I'm trying to determine the position of the opposite end
08:50 AM SpeedEvil: If your angle sensor is on the movable platform, then it is only calculable without more information if the head is at a known fixed orientation.
08:50 AM SpeedEvil: (relative to the stick)
08:54 AM iticus: the sensor is fixed on the stick (if the sensor (device) moves the stick will move as well) ...
09:46 AM iticus: SpeedEvil, where could I find some info on the trigonometry calculation you mentioned ?
10:04 AM VansFannel: Hi!
10:05 AM VansFannel: If I want to see a robot moving using ROS, do I have to use Gazebo for simulation or is there another way to show a robot without using Gazebo? Thanks.
12:45 PM VansFannel: If I want to see a robot moving using ROS, do I have to use Gazebo for simulation or is there another way to show a robot without using Gazebo? Thanks.
06:42 PM z64555: wonder why he repeated himself
06:45 PM Tom_L: nobody answered
07:08 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, you live?
07:08 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, why did you have to spoil it and answer
07:08 PM _unreal_: :)
07:27 PM rue_mohr: always live
07:28 PM _unreal_: bs
07:28 PM _unreal_: ok... so I have one for ya then..... though it was the other day so I have to rememeber what it was
07:28 PM rue_mohr: you do that, i'll get some icecream
07:28 PM _unreal_: and I have been drinking
07:28 PM _unreal_: STILL am
07:29 PM _unreal_: btw I slurrrr before I slrujeoirrrr
07:29 PM _unreal_: fuck what was it
07:31 PM _unreal_: So regardless I was looking at having some kind of a controller designed..... now I need to rememeber what it was
07:31 PM _unreal_: Oh btw I have started building the splash forms for my mold
07:32 PM rue_mohr: your machine could have been workign by now
07:33 PM rue_mohr: hvae you ever designed a cnc job?
07:36 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2639/7010/products/case-l-scale_grande_703d5c24-ab03-4582-90a6-34c8687dc5cf_grande.jpg?v=1523868598
07:36 PM _unreal_: yes I have no now I have had very little time
07:36 PM _unreal_: every day I spend helping my father on his @#$#@$ house
07:36 PM _unreal_: fixing the fence currently
07:37 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, https://drive.google.com/open?id=18P_o8oNvhCQBqB5Gx9uknUD7zoxy_pK8
07:37 PM rue_mohr: you could have made a fence with the cnc
07:37 PM _unreal_: half of the mold
07:37 PM rue_mohr: saved both yu the time
07:37 PM _unreal_: bs
07:37 PM rue_mohr: ...is... is that a foam mold?
07:37 PM _unreal_: SPLASH
07:38 PM rue_mohr: is that expanding sprayfoam?!
07:38 PM _unreal_: no
07:38 PM _unreal_: That is H80
07:38 PM rue_mohr: thats been painfully sanded into shape?
07:38 PM _unreal_: NO
07:38 PM rue_mohr: over the course of hours and hours?
07:38 PM _unreal_: I think that took me 8min
07:38 PM _unreal_: GOOGLE h80 foam 2"
07:38 PM rue_mohr: instead of just being 3d printed?
07:39 PM rue_mohr: hate zero foam, got cha
07:39 PM _unreal_: I dont have a 3d printer and I can build most simple form molds like that is seconds compared to a 3d printer
07:39 PM _unreal_: I'm a MASTER glassman boat buildilder
07:40 PM _unreal_: I mean litteriallly that FORM took me 8min
07:40 PM _unreal_: 2 sheets of 2" cut X by X in size then 3/4" round over on a router with a FENCE
07:40 PM rue_mohr: k
07:41 PM _unreal_: and 3min plexus
07:41 PM _unreal_: When it comes to DESIGN like that I rain KING period
07:42 PM _unreal_: I just finished a $3,000 project last week building a HATCH for a foam. the hatch was what APROX 20x20"
07:42 PM _unreal_: with special curves
07:42 PM _unreal_: I did it in 3 days
07:47 PM zhanx: Evening rue
07:47 PM zhanx: and _unreal_
07:47 PM _unreal_: DONT INTERRUPT I mean hello
07:47 PM zhanx: lol
07:47 PM zhanx: ISR triggered
07:47 PM rue_mohr: so zhanx
07:47 PM rue_mohr: turns out he was redirected byt eh webpage, not by contacting people
07:47 PM zhanx: oh
07:47 PM rue_mohr: I got a letter from them saying they can do paypal or do via australlia
07:47 PM zhanx: I am checking my email now
07:47 PM rue_mohr: !#@#$^@#%@#%$
07:47 PM zhanx: nice
07:47 PM zhanx: So you don't need me to be middle man that is good
07:47 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, MSG
07:47 PM _unreal_: waiting on PHONE to upload a shit load of photos I have not uploaded to are comapany server
07:47 PM rue_mohr: its sound like I am burried in optins
07:47 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, Dont you have asswholes
07:47 PM _unreal_: HATE
07:50 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, you see the images?
07:50 PM _unreal_: ya nay?
07:50 PM rue_mohr: yea
07:50 PM rue_mohr: looks good
07:51 PM _unreal_: That should give you an idea :)
07:51 PM _unreal_: oh ya notice PALM tree's
07:54 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, ?
08:09 PM rue_mohr: the cat just realized that nomatter what window/door he goes to today, its raining out
08:09 PM rue_mohr: he seems to want me to make it stop
08:11 PM _unreal_: pee's daddy make it stop
08:11 PM rue_mohr: oh zhanx I got the ota working
08:12 PM rue_mohr: I found a bug that nobody else has discovered
08:12 PM _unreal_: SHIT I cant for the life of me remember what it was I wanted to ask... I should have just typed it so I would have had a reminder
08:12 PM zhanx: really rue_mohr ?
08:13 PM rue_mohr: if you use the usb to flash a esp8266 with an image thats set to the wrong flash size, the OTA will NOT accept any image, cause they accidently read the upload flash size from the running image, not the one to be uploaded
08:13 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, This weekend I'm gong to try to get my sla70XX drivers built and oing
08:13 PM _unreal_: going
08:13 PM Tom_L: blame the booze
08:13 PM _unreal_: and yet I want more
08:14 PM rue_mohr: :/ I'm only waiting on 37 things from china right now
08:14 PM _unreal_: me about 3
08:14 PM zhanx: only 2 here
08:14 PM rue_mohr: I was up to about 75
08:14 PM _unreal_: got my whb04b-6 finally
08:15 PM _unreal_: has a 100ppr encoder wheel :)
08:15 PM zhanx: oh nice
08:15 PM _unreal_: 6 channel control
08:15 PM _unreal_: I dont care if it has lag
08:15 PM _unreal_: a wise person isnt working fast anyways :)
08:17 PM Tom_L: and only one from the US
08:18 PM rue_mohr: I cant wait to see how long your patience wears out and you silently leave it on a shelf and use other ways to position the system with the words "pendants are stupid anyhow"
08:19 PM rue_mohr: I wonder what the pendant delay on mine will be like when I get around to looping it thru the python spooler program
08:20 PM zhanx: 100ms
08:20 PM Tom_L: isn't python inherently slow?
08:21 PM zhanx: yes
08:22 PM rue_mohr: its not fast, so, I'm interested to see
08:23 PM Tom_L: i wish i knew python but i'm not gonna try to learn it now
08:49 PM rue_shop3: not much to learn
08:49 PM rue_shop3: its a rpogramming language, there are for and while loops, if/else conditionals
08:50 PM rue_shop3: functions, variables
08:50 PM rue_shop3: its not like making a state machine
08:50 PM Tom_L: what was this one i saw.... if ..... fi
08:51 PM rue_shop3: bash
08:58 PM orlock: Tom_L: Python is easy, seriously.
08:59 PM orlock: and i would not say its inherently slow
09:01 PM Tom_L: slow is a relative term though...
09:02 PM Tom_L: if you're doing realtime it probably is
09:41 PM rue_shop4: bot rings
09:41 PM rue_shop4: cnc machine
09:41 PM rue_shop4: thermal controller
09:42 PM rue_shop4: tea machine
09:42 PM rue_shop4: wire stripper
09:42 PM Tom_L: supper
09:42 PM rue_shop4: freq gen
09:42 PM rue_shop4: house solar
09:42 PM rue_shop4: parts washer
09:42 PM rue_shop4: house heating rads
09:42 PM zhanx: topo ring
09:42 PM rue_shop4: mecha engine pan
09:42 PM rue_shop4: house floor plan
09:42 PM rue_shop4: mowerbot II
09:42 PM rue_shop4: screw sorter
09:42 PM Tom_L: i did my floor plan in acad
09:42 PM rue_shop4: plastic injector
09:43 PM rue_shop4: finish 3d printer
09:43 PM rue_shop4: driveway pillars
09:43 PM rue_shop4: yea I need to decide on a layout for the new house
09:43 PM rue_shop4: only 7:45 , supper can wait
09:44 PM rue_shop4: I suppose if I can write a basic proof of concept for the tea machine
09:44 PM rue_shop4: stuff in the logistics later
09:44 PM rue_shop4: but winter is comming
09:44 PM rue_shop4: so I should get the house heat going
09:45 PM zhanx: I need to insulate my office
09:45 PM rue_shop4: need to buy sheet metal from building suppliers
09:45 PM zhanx: its lacking that
09:46 PM rue_shop4: I wonder how much room would be on the workbench if I cleared it
09:47 PM zhanx: all of it
09:47 PM rue_shop4: mmm not sure on that
09:47 PM rue_shop4: I"m not locking onto a project, this is annoying
09:47 PM Tom_L: is python a linux thing?
09:47 PM rue_shop4: where is my OCD when I need it?
09:47 PM rue_shop4: Tom_L, no, its multiplatform
09:48 PM zhanx: python is what java thought it was gonna be
09:48 PM Tom_L: big differenced across platforms?
09:48 PM rue_shop4: dunno, only used it on linux
09:48 PM rue_shop4: was talking about that today zhanx
09:49 PM Tom_L: does it come installed on a linux box?
09:49 PM rue_shop4: if java had taken the web mutlimedia thing, it would have made it
09:49 PM orlock: Tom_L: Minor, nothing worth worrying about
09:49 PM rue_shop4: instead of flash
09:49 PM orlock: Tom_L: and it will almost certainly be installed on linux
09:49 PM orlock: or installable with a few commands
09:49 PM Tom_L: what ver is a good one?
09:49 PM orlock: there's also cut down python for esp's and the like
09:50 PM Tom_L: seems they make changes and things need tweaking across versions
09:50 PM orlock: Tom_L: i've never had a problem with whatever runs as "python"
09:50 PM rue_shop4: not like java programs, where 90% of them eat all your memory and crash
09:50 PM rue_shop4: python programs usually work
09:51 PM orlock: Tom_L: https://xkcd.com/353/
09:51 PM orlock: https://xkcd.com/413/
09:52 PM Tom_L: how do you launch a program in linux written with pure python?
09:52 PM Tom_L: do you need to compile it first like c?
09:52 PM Tom_L: or asm etc
09:52 PM orlock: nope
09:52 PM zhanx: python program.y
09:52 PM Tom_L: is it an interpreted language like basic?
09:52 PM orlock: either call itdirectly with the python interpreter
09:53 PM orlock: of itf the files +x, it will use the #!/usr/bin/python
09:53 PM orlock: and then you just run it
09:53 PM zhanx: orlock +x is bad practice
09:54 PM orlock: zhanx: as opposed to calling a python file directly with the interpreter?
09:54 PM zhanx: yes
09:55 PM zhanx: if you set it +x it can be called by any program if the system is compromised
09:55 PM Tom_L: oh you're talking about rights
09:55 PM zhanx: Tom_L, yes
09:57 PM Tom_L: so the @!/user/bin/ makes it executable?
09:57 PM Tom_L: sry #
09:57 PM zhanx: no its a flag
09:57 PM Tom_L: flags it to compile when called then run?
09:57 PM zhanx: you can set programs to be executable to the system and some should not be
09:58 PM Tom_L: triple quotes are comments?
09:58 PM _unreal_: !!!!!!!! OH thats it I remember rue_mohr YOU LIVE?
09:58 PM orlock: zhanx: But if the systems compromised it's fucked anyway
09:58 PM Tom_L: """
09:58 PM Tom_L: coment
09:58 PM zhanx: with python it runs / compiles for you terms and you let it with +X and any program can do it if you set +X
09:58 PM Tom_L: """
09:58 PM Tom_L: ?
09:58 PM orlock: python's +x
09:58 PM rue_mohr: always
09:58 PM _unreal_: ok here it is
09:58 PM zhanx: orlock, typo thanks
09:59 PM rue_mohr: oh right, tea machine
09:59 PM _unreal_: Looking at making an automatic FAN control for a 12v DC fan. I have a
09:59 PM rue_mohr: ok, it needs a webserver
09:59 PM rue_mohr: _unreal_, my 3 transistor pwm circuit
09:59 PM Tom_L: __ must also be comments?
09:59 PM Tom_L: no
09:59 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, I have a special FINNED thermal resistor
10:00 PM rue_mohr: _unreal_, I can design anything, but you cant build it
10:00 PM Tom_L: so how do you find what all the python libs do?
10:00 PM _unreal_: I'd have to check it for its properties. but I need to build a thermal control where the fan speed is based on the
10:00 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, ?
10:00 PM rue_mohr: and I'm not gonna say my desgins always work
10:00 PM Tom_L: i see alot of import xx imort xxx stuff
10:00 PM rue_mohr: yea
10:00 PM orlock: Tom_L: yeah
10:00 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, I'm just looking at ether using a few transistors OR using a small opamp
10:00 PM zhanx: orlock, its one of them things everyone can agree to disagree on +x for stuff you should call to execute
10:01 PM Tom_L: zhanx i get that
10:01 PM orlock: https://docs.python.org/3/library/
10:01 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/micropwm/p1080966.jpg
10:01 PM _unreal_: thermistor with FINS
10:01 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/micropwm/p1080965.jpg
10:01 PM rue_mohr: in that one, its running a motor via a fet
10:01 PM zhanx: Tom_L, you can't even ping my laptop, on a open network
10:02 PM rue_mohr: but you can hear the mdns traffic ;)
10:02 PM orlock: Tom_L: https://pyserial.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ heres an example
10:02 PM _unreal_: 12v fan thermistor opamp speed control
10:02 PM Tom_L: orlock, i'm looking at my bot code
10:02 PM zhanx: rue_mohr, nope
10:02 PM zhanx: that is on demand also on this
10:03 PM _unreal_: rue_mohr, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHBobCcCpNE
10:04 PM _unreal_: I'm looking for less of an ON/OFF and more of a speed control
10:07 PM Tom_L: speed control is ON/OFF on steroids
10:07 PM zhanx: Tom is juicing
10:08 PM Tom_L: tuples must be static variables
10:08 PM Tom_L: or static arrays?
10:09 PM Tom_L: for lack of a better description
10:09 PM rue_mohr: _unreal_, your like tom, you can ask for help, but nothing i can provide will actaully end up helping you cause your going your own way and nothing will stop you
10:10 PM zhanx: weew I dodged that one
10:10 PM Tom_L: heh
10:10 PM rue_mohr: haha
10:10 PM _unreal_: quick rebound
10:10 PM _unreal_: WEEVE mofo
10:10 PM Tom_L: i don't have time to learn it.. i'm just looking at it a bit
10:10 PM orlock: you dont have to learn ti
10:10 PM orlock: just DO it
10:11 PM orlock: Tom_L: What are you considering doing with it?
10:11 PM Tom_L: the projects i would use it for would require me to learn alot of it
10:11 PM orlock: Tom_L: You'd be suprised - somebody may already have done all of the heavy lifting
10:12 PM orlock: and you end up just typing "import foobar"
10:13 PM Tom_L: now you're sounding like an arduino programmer instead of an avr programmer :)
10:13 PM rue_mohr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp1gREyxVOs
10:13 PM rue_mohr: damnit, I thought it would be servo related
10:13 PM rue_mohr: HE DIDN'T PUT A LP FEED FROM THE TANK TO THE CIRCUIT!!!
10:15 PM Tom_L: orlock one thing would be to add features to my bot
10:16 PM Tom_L: rue pooped out on that one
10:16 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/micropwm/p1080966.jpg
10:16 PM rue_mohr: _unreal_, ^^
10:16 PM anonnumberanon: i can webdev now should i be ashamed?
10:17 PM * Tom_L shuns anonnumberanon
10:22 PM Tom_L: ok so if it's not a standard lib you call it from xxxx import yyyy
10:23 PM orlock: yeah, if it's not a built-in, you'll find you likely have to import something
10:24 PM orlock: to do basic timed telescope control via serial i'll use time and serial for example
10:24 PM rue_mohr: WTF, they changed the auth for my mail server
10:24 PM rue_mohr: who does that
10:24 PM orlock: rue_mohr: Russia.
10:27 PM rue_mohr: my mail server is in vancouver
10:27 PM orlock: Now is in RUSSIA1
10:34 PM zhanx: russia russia russia, you need a snickers orlock
10:34 PM orlock: noticed a form that says
10:34 PM orlock: notify of any suspicious network traffic
10:34 PM orlock: but i'm suspicious of ALL THE TRAFFIC
10:36 PM rue_mohr: send them a tcp stream of everything suspicious
10:36 PM rue_mohr: definitly all the mdns traffic
10:37 PM zhanx: or make a suspicious tcp stream?
10:40 PM rue_mohr: all traffic to gogole ad services
10:40 PM rue_mohr: all traffic to microsoft
10:40 PM rue_mohr: all traffic to any chineese ip
10:41 PM zhanx: google just got caught yet again editing search results
10:41 PM zhanx: not like it will be the last
10:41 PM rue_mohr: how could the results be so unrelated to the searches if they didn't edit them?
10:42 PM rue_mohr: we need a new, crawler based search engine
10:42 PM zhanx: i guess its getting enough the employees are leaking it now
10:43 PM orlock: rue_mohr: i actually have a list of every shinese registered netblock, i have a script that automaticalyl generates it
10:43 PM orlock: and reformats it for use with grepcidr
10:43 PM orlock: rue_mohr: our regional NIC handles both chian and australia so it was a trivial change to split out chinese blocks and australian blocks
10:43 PM rue_mohr: how many gateways could there be into china?
10:43 PM orlock: the gateways are shit and lie
10:44 PM orlock: wget ftp://ftp.apnic.net/public/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-latest
10:44 PM orlock: cat delegated-apnic-latest |grep ipv4 | grep CN | cut -d"|" -f 4,5 > ipv4_cn.txt
10:44 PM rue_mohr: but what I mean is that if you hit one, you know the next hop is china
10:46 PM rue_mohr: just map the internet, it should become obvious
10:46 PM rue_mohr: :)
10:46 PM orlock: rue_mohr: grabbed a days worth of malicious IP traffic, chopped it into /24's
10:46 PM orlock: did a whois on each
10:47 PM orlock: ended up with 750Mb of text containing the results
10:47 PM orlock: sorry, 720Mb
10:47 PM rue_mohr: and what does a traceroute have in common
10:48 PM orlock: routes can and will change
10:48 PM rue_mohr: did that company ever get back ahold of you?
10:48 PM orlock: hmm, which one? the dodgy-dodgy one i never tried chasing up
10:48 PM orlock: because i am 100% sure its so dodgy i do not even want to be a memory
10:48 PM rue_mohr: if I had to guess, I'd say they were a cover comapny for something, cause sure the hell its almost imposabel to get product from them :)
10:49 PM rue_mohr: they said I can deal witht eh australian office
10:49 PM orlock: Oh, THAT company hah
10:49 PM orlock: No, mail bounce, somethings fucked
10:49 PM orlock: they just have shit IT
10:49 PM rue_mohr: huh
10:49 PM orlock: You mean the security gate company?
10:49 PM rue_mohr: ok, yea
10:49 PM rue_mohr: they also said I can pay africa w/ paypal
10:49 PM orlock: Their australian rbanch doesnt even have a functioning email address
10:49 PM rue_mohr: hah
10:50 PM rue_mohr: has cover company written all over it
10:50 PM orlock: as in, it's managed by south africa
10:50 PM orlock: but it bounces
10:50 PM rue_mohr: is phoning them a long distance for you?
10:50 PM zhanx: its a shell company for china in aussie land
10:51 PM rue_mohr: its not china tho
10:51 PM rue_mohr: its africa
10:51 PM orlock: No easy place to make a phone call from here though, sitting in an open plan office
10:51 PM zhanx: look at china's invest in africa and say that again rue
10:51 PM rue_mohr: and I have to say, I'd trust an african company less than a chineese one
10:51 PM rue_mohr: I know they make the damn thigns too, a customer has one
10:52 PM rue_mohr: orlock, ok, but is it long distance?
10:52 PM orlock: rue_mohr: south africa have a need for home-made security devices though
10:52 PM orlock: big market
10:52 PM rue_mohr: like I got the impression almost everythign is long distance in australia
10:52 PM orlock: rue_mohr: interstate, yeah
10:52 PM orlock: but thats no big deal
10:53 PM rue_mohr: I'll try what emails I can, iirc zhanx had one to ozyland
10:53 PM rue_mohr: if I fail, I'll pay ya to phone and get an email! ? :)
10:54 PM zhanx: or 4
10:54 PM rue_mohr: oh yea, ok I'll try these
10:54 PM rue_mohr: only one is australia
10:55 PM rue_mohr: oh no there are a few ok
10:55 PM rue_mohr: ok, now, what can I forcus on that actaully matters
10:55 PM rue_mohr: if I'm going to turn myself into a machine
10:56 PM rue_mohr: I need to sharpen up on how the brain works
10:56 PM zhanx: i need to remake that ekg reader i made for you
10:56 PM rue_mohr: by now, I should be good enough to code small birds n stuff
10:56 PM rue_mohr: zhanx, half the trick seems to be the offset votlage, and where to put the electrodes
10:57 PM rue_mohr: electrode placement is trickey
10:57 PM rue_mohr: its easy to get distracted
10:57 PM zhanx: speaking of that night
10:58 PM rue_mohr: I have an electrical model of a neuron I need to play with
10:58 PM rue_mohr: I need to understand how it can be used as a building block for, anything.
10:58 PM rue_mohr: I have a few high level clues, as far as how the brain works
10:59 PM orlock: fuck i forgot i subscribed to some linux net dev kernel list
10:59 PM orlock: havent checked my gmail account in 6 months
10:59 PM rue_mohr: I swear I dumped about 1/4L of soy sauce in this rice and its just not enough...
10:59 PM orlock: 23k unread emails
10:59 PM orlock: fts.
10:59 PM rue_mohr: hah
10:59 PM orlock: ping man page still has bad link to source
11:00 PM rue_mohr: what is the ping source rolled into?
11:00 PM rue_mohr: bsd-netutils?
11:00 PM orlock: iputils
11:00 PM orlock: http://www.skbuff.net/iputils/
11:00 PM rue_mohr: k
11:01 PM rue_mohr: wow, is that the root code source?
11:01 PM orlock: the task that generates the symlink to http://www.skbuff.net/iputils/iputils-current.tar.bz2 doesnt run
11:01 PM orlock: It's fucked, they have all those tarballs
11:01 PM orlock: and then linsk to two seperate source repositories
11:01 PM orlock: but every distro i have checked, the man page references http://www.skbuff.net/iputils/iputils-current.tar.bz2
11:02 PM orlock: which is 404 and has been for a year
11:02 PM rue_mohr: haha and they never made the symlink
11:02 PM rue_mohr: iputils-s20121205-bad.tar.bz2 <--- hahah
11:02 PM rue_mohr: no housecleaning eh?
11:02 PM orlock: i've emailed the supposed maintainer
11:02 PM orlock: no fix, no response
11:02 PM orlock: gotten bugs submitted to distros
11:03 PM orlock: posted to netdev@vger.kernel.org
11:03 PM rue_mohr: set a task to sent him an email every day
11:03 PM orlock: "I CAN MAKE A FUNCTIONING CRONJOB, WANT ME TO TEAHC YOU HOW?"
11:03 PM orlock: and of course you go into one of the linux-weenie channels and try to bring it up
11:03 PM rue_mohr: as long as it doesn't come with a speeling lesson
11:03 PM orlock: "WELL YOU ARE READING THE MAN PAGE WRONG"
11:04 PM rue_mohr: you just need to grab one of us to come along and ba linebacker
11:05 PM orlock: i only noticed it because of this weird issue i was getting ages ago
11:05 PM orlock: negative packets loss
11:05 PM orlock: with a rtt in the decades
11:05 PM rue_mohr: negitive packet loss
11:05 PM orlock: ping is fucked
11:05 PM rue_mohr: sounds like an over eager packet reciever
11:05 PM orlock: nah thats just how icmp works
11:06 PM orlock: but the ping responses are calssified based on a value thats determined by the software
11:06 PM rue_mohr: is the ping we know now broken?
11:06 PM orlock: so standard ping.c will set an ICMP "ID" based on the callinux unix pid
11:06 PM orlock: calling unix pid
11:06 PM rue_mohr: isn't ping one of the most basic things that exist?
11:07 PM orlock: yeah its just not secure/reliable
11:07 PM orlock: so you can fool it by sending it traffic with any id you want
11:07 PM rue_mohr: I know the service has issues with things like packet buffer overruns
11:08 PM rue_mohr: so it needs to be re-implemented
11:08 PM orlock: and if it happens to match the id of the ping process that the taret is running
11:08 PM rue_mohr: sping -> secure ping
11:08 PM orlock: negative packet loss
11:08 PM orlock: ping will look at ALL returning icmp traffic
11:08 PM rue_mohr: promniscuous?
11:09 PM orlock: nah, just there's no way to differentiate as to what process the packet is actually destined for
11:09 PM rue_mohr: so wait
11:09 PM orlock: so you can get a ping response, from another program
11:09 PM orlock: and ping will not realise that
11:09 PM rue_mohr: you can use ping to communicate between different apps by embedding data in them?
11:09 PM orlock: and if the id is the same, it will interpret it as a response
11:09 PM rue_mohr: liek a message bus?
11:10 PM orlock: yeah
11:10 PM rue_mohr: hahah
11:10 PM orlock: so i was running nagios, which was using basic ping.c
11:10 PM orlock: and collectd which was using liboping
11:10 PM rue_mohr: if that can be turned into a "possable root exploit" the internet security thing would be all over it
11:11 PM orlock: and liboping was generating it's ICMP ID in a completely different way to ping.c
11:11 PM orlock: so every so often, liboping would generate an ID that was the same as the currently running ping.c
11:11 PM orlock: and ping would interpret it as extra packets
11:12 PM orlock: negative packet loss
11:12 PM orlock: so thats why i found myself discovering that the link in the ping man page to the source 404's
11:12 PM orlock: fml
11:12 PM orlock: at least nagios is happy now
11:12 PM orlock: i moved collectd onto a different VM
11:13 PM orlock: one day when i have time i'll whip up a pythin script to spam icmp responses with masses of different id's
11:14 PM rue_bed: hey, I need help writing a ping for stm32 / esp8266
11:14 PM rue_bed: not client, server
11:15 PM orlock: i need to get into esp again
11:15 PM orlock: isnt it in the standard libraries?
11:15 PM rue_bed: dunno
11:15 PM rue_bed: it was stm32 that got me, cant remember which adapter I was using
11:15 PM rue_bed: I was having all sorts of issues tho
11:16 PM rue_bed: mostly falling down on how my low-level networking works