#robotics Logs
May 30 2018
#robotics Calendar
12:45 AM rue_mohr: ok, a bit more progress on the 4th printer anyhow
01:11 AM rue_mohr: how is it that every time I build a 3d printer I end up designing new parts
01:20 AM mrdata: immature tech
01:21 AM mrdata: yeah, every time i build a plasma focus transformer, it's the same routine as well
01:21 AM mrdata: oh wait, this is only 2018
01:22 AM mrdata: i havent made the first one, yet
01:22 AM veverak: lol
01:22 AM veverak: hmm
01:22 AM veverak: I should repair this dual channel DC motor driver ...
01:22 AM veverak: or I can build my own?
01:22 AM veverak: I have PWM genreator here..
01:23 AM rue_mohr: you wind your own focus transformers?
01:23 AM rue_mohr: veverak, what are the driver specs?
01:23 AM rue_mohr: what kind driver is broken
01:23 AM mrdata: you have to; big inductors are all custom builds
01:24 AM mrdata: i think this will be around 2 m dia
01:24 AM veverak: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21694302/what-are-the-mechanics-of-short-string-optimization-in-libc
01:24 AM veverak: oh, not this link
01:24 AM veverak: https://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/sabertooth2x5rc
01:24 AM veverak: rue_mohr: ^^
01:24 AM rue_mohr: 2m wire is hard to bend
01:24 AM mrdata: not the wire
01:24 AM mrdata: the transformer
01:24 AM mrdata: the wire might be only 21 cm dia
01:24 AM mrdata: err
01:24 AM veverak: rue_mohr: I have 16-channel PWM generator with a lots of free channels
01:24 AM mrdata: 21 mm
01:24 AM rue_mohr: good thing you didn't say thats the strand dia of the cable!
01:25 AM veverak: rue_mohr: and I need only something that 'drives DC motor' + 'disables itself on low voltage'
01:25 AM rue_mohr: veverak, heh, did you try to put 5A thru it?
01:25 AM veverak: and I have other hting that disables itself on low voltage
01:25 AM veverak: so it can disable this
01:25 AM veverak: rue_mohr: nah, it seems that when you accidentaly shortcut the motor wires the mosfets simply burns
01:25 AM mrdata: 138 kA for 10 ns
01:25 AM veverak: :)
01:25 AM veverak: anyway
01:26 AM mrdata: if i can get the parts not exploding
01:26 AM rue_mohr: veverak, its got NO short protections!?!?!
01:26 AM veverak: that's PWMed H-bridge
01:26 AM veverak: rue_mohr: that's working theory
01:26 AM rue_mohr: you want to pwm 138000 A?
01:26 AM rue_mohr: thats gonna need a big mosfet
01:26 AM mrdata: no the pulse on the DPF exit beam is 10 ns long, but 4.4 MA
01:26 AM rue_mohr: I hate to think what Cin would be
01:26 AM veverak: hmm
01:27 AM veverak: I may really just need basic H-bridge
01:27 AM rue_mohr: mr ah, capacitor
01:27 AM veverak: to drive those DC motors
01:27 AM rue_mohr: veverak, how many amps?
01:27 AM veverak: 2A/12V
01:27 AM rue_mohr: I have some tde2050 here
01:27 AM rue_mohr: srry, tda2050
01:28 AM rue_mohr: its a 5A audio amp, want me to try turning 2 into an H bridge?
01:28 AM rue_mohr: (they have short protection built in)
01:28 AM veverak: wow
01:28 AM rue_mohr: and their cheap as dirt
01:28 AM veverak: looks cool?
01:28 AM veverak: I mean
01:28 AM veverak: do I need anything more than this things in H-bridge configuration?
01:29 AM rue_mohr: hu?
01:29 AM rue_mohr: what are you doing with it?
01:29 AM rue_mohr: high speed pwm?
01:29 AM veverak: drive DC motors
01:29 AM veverak: rue_mohr: https://www.robotshop.com/en/lynxmotion-tri-track-chassis-kit.html
01:29 AM veverak: this thing
01:29 AM rue_mohr: ok, using 440Hz pwm?
01:30 AM rue_mohr: oh dear god, you didn't pay over $200 for one did you?!?!?!
01:30 AM mrdata: rue_mohr, it's a stream of alpha particles
01:30 AM veverak: nah
01:30 AM veverak: university did
01:30 AM veverak: some years ago
01:30 AM veverak: :D
01:30 AM * rue_mohr beats head on table
01:30 AM rue_mohr: ok
01:30 AM veverak: it was collecting dast in the laboratory
01:30 AM veverak: so I took it, it may do something usefull
01:30 AM mrdata: i need to convert that to electricity via a rogowski coil
01:30 AM rue_mohr: it collected all the dust?
01:30 AM veverak: rue_mohr: I have this https://www.adafruit.com/product/815
01:30 AM veverak: and only 4 out of 16 channels are taken
01:31 AM veverak: so I am thinking of using that to drive H-Bridge
01:31 AM rue_mohr: ok that horrid thing, its NOT 12 bit ok?
01:31 AM veverak: it's good enough for my use case
01:31 AM veverak: :D
01:31 AM rue_mohr: its 6 or 7 by the time its generating pulses
01:31 AM veverak: I control RC Servos with this
01:31 AM rue_mohr: sure, just its NOT 12 bit
01:31 AM veverak: k
01:32 AM rue_mohr: well, that said, if your generating real pwm and not servo pwm, it is 12 bit
01:32 AM rue_mohr: tho, it would be 50Hz 12 bit
01:32 AM rue_mohr: ugh
01:33 AM rue_mohr: hahah its $15 hahahahahaha
01:33 AM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PCA9685-16-Channel-12-bit-PWM-Servo-Driver-I2C-interface-Module-For-Raspberry-Pi-Shield-Module/32829892507.html
01:33 AM rue_mohr: sorry, I just cringe
01:34 AM rue_mohr: -every time-
01:34 AM veverak: oh, yeah
01:34 AM rue_mohr: ok, moving on
01:34 AM veverak: :D
01:34 AM veverak: rue_mohr: I bought it from ali
01:34 AM veverak: 1.90$ is good reason
01:34 AM veverak: 15$ is not
01:34 AM veverak: :)
01:35 AM rue_mohr: ok, so, do we set up an avr to take the servo pwm from that and turn it into a differential motor driver
01:35 AM rue_mohr: OR
01:35 AM rue_mohr: set up an avr as an i2c device to run a set of motors?
01:36 AM rue_mohr: I see, a m328, and 4 tda2050
01:36 AM veverak: the second in case AVR is going to be there
01:36 AM rue_mohr: total cost about $4, total time about 60 days
01:36 AM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: like https://imgur.com/a/IDQ5u ?
01:37 AM rue_mohr: no I'z just gonna throw some tda2050 at it
01:37 AM rue_mohr: your board is way better, you finished it yet?
01:37 AM veverak: hmm
01:37 AM rue_mohr: oh there is downscrolling
01:37 AM veverak: rue_mohr: how hard is it, to generate pulse of specific length, in case you detect LOW->HIGH
01:38 AM rue_mohr: Triffid_Hunter, do you have overload protection?
01:38 AM veverak: I mean, cheap RC servos, generate PWM pulse of 1500us along the control signal
01:38 AM rue_mohr: veverak, hu?
01:38 AM veverak: and just compare the generate one with the control one
01:38 AM rue_mohr: yes
01:38 AM veverak: to control the RC motor
01:38 AM veverak: maybe something similar can be done with the H-bridge
01:38 AM rue_mohr: you want to make your own servo
01:39 AM veverak: not really, just curious about the 'control H-bridge with PWM like a servo'
01:39 AM rue_mohr: Triffid_Hunter, where is the pretty top?
01:39 AM Triffid_Hunter: although if I were to revisit that project I'd use DRV8701 and
01:39 AM rue_mohr: veverak, want to see my source?
01:39 AM rue_mohr: Triffid_Hunter, what avr?
01:39 AM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: 328
01:39 AM veverak: rue_mohr: of what?
01:39 AM rue_mohr: heh
01:39 AM rue_mohr: veverak, servo pwm pulse -> number
01:40 AM veverak: show me
01:40 AM veverak: show me the goods!
01:40 AM rue_mohr: ok ok , geez
01:40 AM veverak: hmm
01:40 AM veverak: Triffid_Hunter: that DRV8701 looks nice
01:40 AM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: yeah it hypothetically has overload protection, I use the avr's comparator to kill output if current exceeds some limit
01:40 AM rue_mohr: question is, what avr did I write it for
01:41 AM rue_mohr: how did you detect the current?
01:41 AM rue_mohr: oh I closed it, thre was a sch
01:41 AM Triffid_Hunter: veverak: yeah I have a thing here that uses it.. with AON6978 dual PDFN mosfets it can carry 12A but it's capped at 5A by the overcurrent protector, basically bulletproof except for overvoltage
01:41 AM veverak: Triffid_Hunter: yeah, that DRV8701 looks reallly nice
01:41 AM rue_mohr: veverak, those look like beefy motors, do you know the short circuit current on them?
01:42 AM veverak: rue_mohr: I short circuited the wires
01:42 AM veverak: no idea
01:42 AM veverak: :)
01:42 AM veverak: or, to be precise, somebody left a small cap on the wires of the motor that were free to move around
01:42 AM veverak: at one point I accidentaly pushed the caps on the shelf of the motor, and I believe it shortcircuited
01:42 AM veverak: next time I connected battery, nice smoke from two mosfest driving that motor
01:43 AM Triffid_Hunter: veverak: the cap is necessary to keep commutation noise out of the motor wires.. should be fixed firmly though
01:43 AM rue_mohr: looks like mega32
01:43 AM veverak: Triffid_Hunter: it was not and I was stupid enough to not to fix it
01:43 AM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: yeah, atmega328p in QFN-32
01:44 AM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: there's a link to design files and firmware at the bottom of the album if you wanna see how I did *everything* with one timer ;)
01:44 AM Triffid_Hunter: I use timer1 to generate both 10 bit PWM and precisely read the incoming pulsewidth
01:49 AM rue_mohr: well, I cant find *my* code...
01:50 AM rue_mohr: it was a bit of a hack
01:50 AM veverak: meantime
01:50 AM veverak: in case I want to be lazy
01:50 AM veverak: https://www.pololu.com/product/2992/specs
01:50 AM veverak: spec of this thing are not bad
01:50 AM veverak: and it is much cheaper than sabertooth
01:50 AM veverak: hmm, wait, I would nee two of them
01:50 AM veverak: meh
01:51 AM rue_mohr: $30!?!
01:51 AM rue_mohr: why aren't people paying ME these amounts?!!?!
01:51 AM veverak: do you have eshop with wolrdwide shipping?
01:51 AM rue_mohr: + shipping I'll bet too!
01:52 AM rue_mohr: I'd like to know where the 13A comes from
01:52 AM rue_mohr: I wonder if its the 10us pulse rating on the fets
01:53 AM rue_mohr: they say continious tho
01:53 AM rue_mohr: so thts 3A on each pin of the fet
01:53 AM rue_mohr: thats gotta be close to its fuse current
01:54 AM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: modern fets are amazing and can easily carry 15-20A with no heatsink
01:54 AM veverak: so
01:54 AM veverak: https://www.pololu.com/product/707
01:54 AM veverak: this thing
01:54 AM veverak: (the CHIP on it, no the thing itself)
01:54 AM rue_mohr: yes, but are the ones in that page using those 4 pins or a bga
01:54 AM veverak: could be used, just custom PCB?
01:54 AM rue_mohr: hu?
01:54 AM rue_mohr: its a microcontroller likley
01:55 AM veverak: VNH3SP30TR
01:55 AM rue_mohr: oh the link changed :)
01:55 AM rue_mohr: haha $50
01:55 AM rue_mohr: oh man
01:55 AM veverak: yup
01:55 AM veverak: but the VNH3SP30TR costs 7$
01:55 AM Triffid_Hunter: rue_mohr: my ESC uses IRLB8743 with Rds(on) of just 3.2mΩ, thus they can carry 18.9A without a heatsink
01:56 AM veverak: LOL
01:56 AM rue_mohr: 9A
01:56 AM veverak: rue_mohr: yeah, so 14$ for the chips
01:56 AM rue_mohr: what irf1404?
01:56 AM veverak: 36$ for some capacitators, PCB, diodes and stuff...
01:56 AM veverak: lol
01:56 AM veverak: :)
01:57 AM rue_mohr: what was the irl fet controller chip?
01:57 AM veverak: hmm
01:57 AM veverak: so I can buy VNH3SP30TR and copy their schematics shamelessly .. https://a.pololu-files.com/picture/0J411.1200.png?78fc551ac6ef5b54b366dcd33af0fe30
01:59 AM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/170W-High-Power-H-Bridge-Motor-Driver-Module-NMOS-Brake-Duty-Cycle-for-DC-5-40V/32842352397.html
01:59 AM rue_mohr: huh
01:59 AM rue_mohr: L1605?
02:01 AM veverak: ok, detach, I should study more!
02:02 AM Triffid_Hunter: veverak: check out jlc-pcb for cheap PCBs
02:02 AM rue_mohr: there are chips that will run 4 fets for you too
02:02 AM rue_mohr: and do h-bridge logic-timing
02:03 AM veverak: yeah
02:03 AM veverak: just thought of 'arduino nano' that I have spare
02:03 AM veverak: and attaing mosfets to it
02:03 AM rue_mohr: but the chips will drive the bridge too
02:03 AM Triffid_Hunter: veverak: for high current you need to drive the gates properly or they'll die during switchover
02:04 AM rue_mohr: me and rifraf made one back in like 200 it uses irf1404 , the chip, and a tiny13 to convert the servo signal
02:04 AM rue_mohr: called open... driver?
02:04 AM rue_mohr: back then, anyhow, they closed the project and tried to sell it, and it died
02:05 AM veverak: rifraf?
02:05 AM veverak: that rings a bell
02:05 AM Triffid_Hunter: irf1404? meh those things are pretty terrible by modern standards ;)
02:05 AM veverak: !!!
02:05 AM Triffid_Hunter: heh I've met rifraf in person a few times, he lived not that far from me before I went to china
02:05 AM veverak: rue_mohr: I've got an frame for my i3 from rifraf
02:06 AM rue_mohr: good show
02:06 AM rue_mohr: have you heard from him in thelast year?
02:06 AM veverak: nope
02:06 AM veverak: it was long time ago
02:07 AM rue_bed: I wonder whats in the tiny13 stuff
02:10 AM rue_bed: openservo
02:10 AM rue_bed: t13
02:10 AM rue_bed: 1 input, 5 outputs
02:10 AM rue_bed: no protection
02:11 AM veverak: anyway
02:11 AM veverak: plan is to try to repair the sabertooth
02:11 AM veverak: if it fails -> I will make my dual channel DC driver
02:16 AM rue_bed: ok, if you need help overcomplicating it, I'm here to help!
02:16 AM veverak: :D
02:16 AM veverak: I can do that part myself
02:16 AM veverak: however the idea to just use MCU and 4 mosfets
02:16 AM veverak: seems interesting
02:16 AM rue_bed: I can help install lots of ideas to buddy the goal tho!
02:16 AM veverak: or something like that
02:16 AM rue_bed: I have the openservo source
02:16 AM veverak: however
02:16 AM rue_bed: I cant make heads or tails of it, but I have it
02:16 AM Triffid_Hunter: veverak: gonna need high side drivers unless you're feeding the motor 5v
02:16 AM veverak: I should know how to build H-bridge
02:16 AM veverak: I don't know it
02:16 AM rue_bed: driving fets is a pain tho
02:16 AM veverak: maybe I should finally learn
02:16 AM veverak: :)
02:16 AM Triffid_Hunter: rue_bed: that's why there's a crapton of lovely chips to do it for us these days
02:16 AM veverak: hmm
02:56 AM voxadam is now known as Guest93048
04:19 AM Jak_o_Shadows: rue, I thought of something useful you could do with one/many of your robot arms
04:19 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Buy a HB100 doppler radar sensor, and characterise the antenna.
04:24 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Hmm. You will probably need two arms for that, as it's doppler
04:26 AM theBear: that's cool.... i happen to have exactly two arms ! almost TOO convenient...
05:43 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173340522183?ul_noapp=true
05:43 AM SpeedEvil: AMG8833 8x8 Thermal Camera IR Infrared Array Thermal Imaging Sensor
08:11 AM z64555: rue_mohr: the system I'm talking about would operate on one or 2 gallons, its intended to be a room unit, (portable)
09:11 AM rue_bed: ah
09:43 AM robotustra: morning
09:45 AM rue_mohr: morning
09:45 AM robotustra: how is everything?
09:46 AM rue_mohr: little turbulance latley
09:46 AM robotustra: with life or with weather?
09:46 AM rue_mohr: with irc
09:47 AM robotustra: ah, netsplits?
09:47 AM rue_mohr: I do a 'dead wood' nick cleanout every 2 or more years,
09:47 AM rue_mohr: this year people got down right angry at me
09:47 AM robotustra: is it a bot?
09:47 AM rue_mohr: no
09:47 AM robotustra: human?
09:48 AM rue_mohr: #avr dropped from 151 to 50 real people when I flushed out dead nicks
09:48 AM robotustra: how do you verify people? by log file?
09:48 AM rue_mohr: there were literally 100 nicks in channel that never spoke and didn't even reautojoin
09:49 AM robotustra: yeah, they are loggers
09:49 AM rue_mohr: yes, I also gave 24 hours warning
09:49 AM rue_mohr: and a 5 min warning
09:49 AM z64555: loggers?
09:49 AM rue_mohr: 100 loggers?
09:49 AM rue_mohr: anyhow
09:49 AM robotustra: on my channel I usually kick logger bots
09:50 AM robotustra: if there is no signs of life during the day - bye bye
09:50 AM z64555: whats the point of logging netsplits and join/leaves
09:50 AM robotustra: go keep silence in other place
09:50 AM rue_mohr: we dropped about 25
09:50 AM robotustra: z64555, I mean bots can log the comtent of the channel
09:50 AM robotustra: content
09:51 AM z64555: you missed my point :P
09:51 AM z64555: which was to state that said logger bots are usually in dead channels
09:52 AM rue_mohr: how does that relation work anyhow????
09:52 AM rue_mohr: that would explain why dead channels have a population explosion right before they collapse
09:53 AM sports`ball: freenode is really strange in that aspect
09:53 AM sports`ball: some times theres 60%+ that never speak in channels
09:53 AM rue_mohr: yea, I like to clear that out every so often
09:53 AM sports`ball: 100 of the 482 users in #reprap right now have never said anything.
09:53 AM sports`ball: ok maybe my 60% figure i soff
09:54 AM robotustra: sports`ball, that's why admins of channel should do clean up once a month at least
09:54 AM sports`ball: but thats a lot of lunkers
09:55 AM robotustra: I know that there are a lot of logging bots on reprap because I did find my content on google which I spoke in that channel
09:55 AM robotustra: and logs are published from that channel
09:55 AM sports`ball: hell im in a channel with like 13 people in it and theres an idler in that channel
09:56 AM sports`ball: nothing you do on the internet is private
09:56 AM robotustra: yes
09:57 AM robotustra: I prefer a small but chatting group of partialy denonimized persons than a 50% of "dead wood" in the channel
09:58 AM rue_mohr: well, I dont understand why a real person joins a channel with 200 people and dos't say anything, but joins another with 5 users and immediatly strikes up a conversaton
09:58 AM robotustra: some of them are bots form FB, FBI, CIA, KGB, etc
09:59 AM rue_mohr: google, yahoo, bing...
09:59 AM sports`ball: blizzard
09:59 AM robotustra: I think when there are a lot or people it's difficult to keep the context of the chat
10:00 AM robotustra: MI6
10:00 AM sports`ball: spacex
10:00 AM robotustra: there are "writers" and "readers"
10:00 AM sports`ball: the 1:10:100 rule or whatever the fck its called
10:00 AM robotustra: I prefer to have "writers" onthe channel
10:05 AM robotustra: I'm still scraping my metal for lathe from time to time. about 80% is ready
10:06 AM robotustra: have to flaten the frame and I'll start drilling and threading parts
10:06 AM rue_mohr: make sure the rusting dosn't get ahead of you
10:09 AM robotustra: no, there is right condition in my app
10:09 AM robotustra: and rust it doestn't influent so much on the flatness
10:10 AM robotustra: some pieces has off the flatness >0.4 mm
10:11 AM robotustra: I make them flat at least within 0.01mm
10:13 AM robotustra: sports`ball, are you from spacex?
10:15 AM sports`ball: maybe im elon musk
10:15 AM sports`ball: no, im just some amateur hobbyist who calls himself an amateur engineer who dosnt use math
10:19 AM robotustra: elon musk don't have time to chat in irc
10:20 AM robotustra: sports`ball, do you have some of your project to show?
10:35 AM sports`ball: i have this issue where i start projects and hardly ever finish any
10:36 AM sports`ball: i have 3 3d printers and 2 of them are down for maintenance and the other one is just sitting there because im getting into flying quadcopters and i just bought a VR headset soooo...
10:36 AM sports`ball: i just need to quit my job and work on hobbies full time
10:38 AM robotustra: I actually find a job which is consist of my hobby actually :)
10:39 AM robotustra: davr0s, hi
10:39 AM davr0s: hi
10:39 AM davr0s: do you build robots
10:39 AM robotustra: yes
10:40 AM robotustra: sometimes
10:40 AM robotustra: looks like alive person
10:40 AM davr0s: haven't built anything yet, i have some r-pi's lying around and might get some servos/stepper motors to tinker with i guess
10:41 AM robotustra: I usually start from idea
10:41 AM robotustra: and get hardware according to the idea, but not reverse
10:43 AM davr0s: most peopel think thats how things work but
10:43 AM davr0s: in my experience a lot of the world/progress is actually "ok here's a new capability - what can we do with it"
10:43 AM davr0s: both approaches are neede
10:43 AM davr0s: needed^
10:44 AM robotustra: can agree
10:44 AM robotustra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5VN56jQMWM
10:44 AM davr0s: now one thing i would like though...
10:44 AM davr0s: is a device that could assist cleaning a bike
10:45 AM robotustra: a brush?
10:45 AM davr0s: it would need to move a brush through a complex path (i.e. bike derailiuers etc)
10:45 AM davr0s: robotustra i mean assist with cleaning a bike *without being a lengthy human process*
10:45 AM robotustra: I would like to have a robot which cleans shelves from dust
10:46 AM davr0s: but I suspect this would cost more to do well than simply having a spare bike for rain
10:46 AM robotustra: wipe it
10:46 AM davr0s: i get the impression precise control of an arm with a large reach is difficult
10:46 AM davr0s: wheras 3d printers give positional control inside a frame
10:46 AM robotustra: may be you don't need an arm at all
10:47 AM robotustra: just a robot which can roll over the frame
10:47 AM davr0s: yeah i was thinking maybe a frame
10:47 AM davr0s: taking inspiration from the observation that 3d printers do acheive precise positional control
10:47 AM robotustra: they have, and I've already build a robot on the base of 3d printer
10:48 AM robotustra: and it works
10:48 AM davr0s: i dont think i'd need fancy vision even, just ensure the pedals/gears are rotated to a specific starting point
10:48 AM robotustra: for touching pads
10:48 AM davr0s: although doing it with machine vision would be very interesting
10:49 AM davr0s: i think it might need 5 axes though to rotate the brush to get into all the spaces
10:49 AM davr0s: it doesn't need to do it fast
10:49 AM robotustra: I would make blind robot first, which can move around the frame by sensing it
10:49 AM sports`ball: just get a pressure washer
10:50 AM robotustra: this robot can cost more than bike
10:50 AM sports`ball: and put it on some 3 axis motion setup
10:50 AM davr0s: not recomended because it drives dirt into the bearings
10:50 AM sports`ball: o
10:51 AM robotustra: 1) rince your bike 2) dry it 3) grease it
10:51 AM robotustra: just put in under the shower
10:52 AM davr0s: i imagine intricate cleaning would have uses beyond bicycles
10:52 AM sports`ball: find an old carwash thats out of business
10:52 AM sports`ball: and buy some of those giant brushes
10:52 AM robotustra: yeah
10:52 AM robotustra: I would make a washing machine for bikes
10:52 AM davr0s: those wont get into the spaces around the drivechain
10:52 AM davr0s: right
10:52 AM robotustra: rather than robot
10:53 AM davr0s: well no
10:53 AM davr0s: the giant brush idea wont cut it
10:53 AM sports`ball: years ago i thouht about a utensil washing machine that worked kind of like a carwash
10:53 AM davr0s: the brush has to be guided inside a complex space
10:53 AM sports`ball: because i was frustrated at how poor of a job the dishwasher did utensils but then we got a new dishwasher and the problem went awa
10:53 AM davr0s: hah
10:53 AM sports`ball: maybe if you just use your bikes indoors they wont get dirty ;)
10:53 AM davr0s: it might be possible to do wiht less fluid
10:54 AM robotustra: wash bike with pressurized water in a complex areas
10:54 AM davr0s: sports`ball i could use a rowing machine instead of a bike to keep fit but..
10:54 AM sports`ball: lol
10:54 AM davr0s: going outside releases more adrenaline
10:54 AM sports`ball: get one of those TracX setups
10:54 AM davr0s: its easier to work harder outside
10:54 AM sports`ball: tacx
10:54 AM davr0s: moving for real
10:55 AM davr0s: i think intricate cleaning is a broadly interesting problem within near reach
10:57 AM robotustra: yes and no
10:57 AM sports`ball: cant you get sealed bearings tho
10:57 AM robotustra: 1) if you spend more on research and building than the profit of such cleaning
10:58 AM davr0s: knowledge aquired doing it
10:58 AM sports`ball: i have done a lot of things the hard way just to get knowledge/experience
10:58 AM robotustra: it's caller research
10:58 AM robotustra: and development
10:58 AM davr0s: create the capability, then it may find other uses
10:58 AM robotustra: but it should be adecvate
10:59 AM sports`ball: https://i.imgur.com/wdZncV1.png could have bought a premade strip of LEDs but no i bought these individual modules that require 6 solder points per module
10:59 AM sports`ball: lol
10:59 AM robotustra: the key word is _MAY_
10:59 AM davr0s: what if the parts are re-targetable
10:59 AM robotustra: usually r&d spend tonns of time and money and the ourtcome if not so huge
11:00 AM davr0s: for example the frame idea - could a frame be built that *could* be a cleaning robot, *or* a giant 3d printer
11:00 AM sports`ball: hmm that reminds me of this open source cardboard/cheap materials framework for a ton of mechanical things
11:00 AM sports`ball: hmm can you adapt a hangprinter to clean bikes
11:00 AM davr0s: i guess the 3 axis idea would be better than nothing - it might miss parts but then you've got less to do by hand
11:01 AM robotustra: have you ever build a robot with at least 3 DOF?
11:01 AM davr0s: i've never built a robot
11:01 AM sports`ball: i built 3d printer kits does that count
11:02 AM davr0s: i thinkn a 3d printer is a robot really, just very limited
11:02 AM davr0s: robots dont necaserily have to have austrian accents and ask for sarah conor etc
11:04 AM robotustra: no, 3d printer is a robot and it's NOT simple robot already
11:05 AM robotustra: anything that can follow a program more less autonomously already can be considered as a robot
11:05 AM robotustra: and if it has actuators
11:05 AM robotustra: and sensors
11:05 AM robotustra: 3d printers fit this pattern
11:07 AM robotustra: of cause it's not a strict definition, but it's a "common" idea of what we can call a robot
11:07 AM robotustra: if you build a 3d printer from kit - it means you have built a robot already
11:08 AM robotustra: of cause if you made them work correctly
11:08 AM sports`ball: first try
11:08 AM sports`ball: on all 3 of my printers (4 if you count the 101 hero but thats a toy)
11:09 AM robotustra: I'd built already 5 robots
11:09 AM sports`ball: damn thats 1 more then me :(
11:09 AM robotustra: but all of them are cnc and 3d printers :)
11:09 AM robotustra: 3 for work
11:10 AM robotustra: and 2 for myself
11:10 AM robotustra: now I'm working on the 3rd for muself
11:10 AM robotustra: myself*
11:10 AM sports`ball: i want a cnc but i know i wouldnt use it enough to justify one
11:11 AM robotustra: well, I have cnc, and I use it rarely, but when I need it - I just work on it
11:11 AM davr0s: i think i should aim at a 3d printer before other robots.
11:12 AM robotustra: davr0s, reasonable decision
11:12 AM davr0s: then once i have a 3d printer i can think about printing robot parts.
11:12 AM robotustra: sports`ball, here is my cnc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwhQ6ab06e0
11:12 AM davr0s: awesome
11:13 AM davr0s: i guess a CNC has more to go wrong than a 3d printer, right
11:13 AM davr0s: more noise too
11:13 AM davr0s: more care required (flying debris)
11:13 AM robotustra: my I put it inside the box
11:13 AM robotustra: and it's sound proof box
11:14 AM sports`ball: if the workpeice comes loose during the work
11:14 AM sports`ball: fires often start
11:14 AM robotustra: but I can't mill heavy stuff
11:14 AM robotustra: endmill break
11:14 AM robotustra: sometimes
11:14 AM sports`ball: endmill breaking is a good problem
11:15 AM sports`ball: because it means there wont likely be a fire :
11:15 AM sports`ball: :P
11:15 AM davr0s: can you get CNCs that are 'just' frames into which to insert a hand-drill
11:15 AM robotustra: I don't know how it can be a fire?
11:15 AM sports`ball: something like the maslow is really interesting
11:15 AM sports`ball: chain-driven router-powered vertical cnc
11:16 AM sports`ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dg467-fPEQ
11:16 AM robotustra: why to insert a hand drill into cnc?
11:16 AM sports`ball: instead of the spindle
11:16 AM robotustra: to drive it by hands?
11:16 AM sports`ball: no the hand drill is mounted to a mount on the toolhead
11:17 AM sports`ball: controlled by an external ESC i guess
11:17 AM robotustra: there are frames for routers that can handle electric drills and routers
11:17 AM davr0s: by hand-drill i mean hand-held power-drill,not hand-cranked drill
11:17 AM davr0s: yeah electric drill
11:17 AM robotustra: yes there are
11:18 AM robotustra: I saw them on ebay
11:18 AM sports`ball: https://s22293.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/maslow2.jpg i *might* have space in the garage for this kind of setup...
11:21 AM robotustra: maslow is not good for all milling stuff
11:22 AM robotustra: and it need's a lot of space when it's working
11:22 AM robotustra: not good for appartment
11:22 AM robotustra: may be it's ok for garage
11:30 AM davr0s: this might sound like a dumb idea but..
11:30 AM davr0s: ... imagine a *pedal powered* 3d printer or CNC machine,
11:30 AM davr0s: i.e. turning excercise work into 'useful work'
11:31 AM davr0s: hah imagine a pedal-powered bike cleaning robot.
11:32 AM sports`ball: robot powered robot
11:37 AM robotustra: davr0s, you have too much adrenaline
11:37 AM davr0s: i like to find new ways to connect pursuits
11:56 AM weyland|yutani: davr0s, wood gasifier + generator
08:30 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, why the hell does everyone think I'm gonna kick everyone who doesn't speak every 24 hours?????
08:33 PM orlock: ordered a pile of plastic
08:33 PM orlock: should arrive before weekend
08:33 PM orlock: 1kg petg, 2kg white PLA, 1kg translucent green PLA, 1kg purple ABS
08:34 PM orlock: this seems to be a good supplier
08:34 PM rue_mohr: cool stuff
08:34 PM orlock: they advertise their spools as all being "perfectly wound, tangle free"
08:34 PM rue_mohr: printing a new extruder gear I designed
08:34 PM Tom_L: not my problem anymore. i left
08:34 PM orlock: with integrated holes to guage remaining filament
08:35 PM orlock: looks like the spools are laser cut perspex
08:35 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, answer me this, do people really think I'm gonna kick anyone who dosnt speak every 24 hours???
08:35 PM orlock: also its quite reasonably priced
08:36 PM orlock: Mamorubot
08:36 PM rue_mohr: orlock, I think the spool industry got quite a boost from the reprap development
08:39 PM orlock: Excited to try out petg
08:40 PM orlock: it's the stuff plastic fixxy drink bottles are made of
08:41 PM Tom_L: logs and bot are all gone too
08:42 PM rue_mohr: why are YOU mad anyhow?
08:43 PM orlock: it's a fine line between phishing and "legitimate" scam
08:43 PM orlock: hmm
08:45 PM rue_mohr: you realize that the ONLY nick I bumped of anyone active was haratoro, whos nick was anato, how the hell could I have known that?
08:46 PM rue_mohr: this is more insane than me kicking bots out of a channel
08:46 PM Tom_L: maybe you should have left well enough alone. it was really doing no harm and now half of them have left and gone on to another channel
08:46 PM Tom_L: i'm too old for this shit.
08:47 PM rue_mohr: its not tho?
08:47 PM rue_mohr: thats what I dont get
08:47 PM rue_mohr: would you close and restart a program pulling 8G of ram when it doesn't need to?
08:48 PM Tom_L: not a good comparison at all
08:48 PM Tom_L: it was doing no harm
08:48 PM rue_mohr: yes yes it is!
08:48 PM Tom_L: i've said all i'm going to on the topic
08:48 PM rue_mohr: if you have 16G of ram, why shouldn't one webpage consume 8G of ram in your browser?
08:49 PM rue_mohr: it only makes sense to me if the people offended were invested in the 100 bots I kicked
08:52 PM orlock: if they are not banned it's only irc, really not worth getting uset about
08:55 PM rue_mohr: emil and casper are out to kill me now tho
08:55 PM mrdata-: .why
08:56 PM Tom_L: please don't drag it into this channel mkay?
08:57 PM -!- #robotics mode set to +o by ChanServ
08:57 PM orlock: what was the last thing i said in here?
08:58 PM Tom_L: <orlock> if they are not banned it's only irc, really not worth getting uset about
08:58 PM orlock: cheers, my client is old and crusty and i thought i said it elsewhere
09:03 PM rue_mohr: I'ma sleep 2 hours, bbl
09:03 PM rue_mohr: then the gear for the new reprap should be finsished
09:06 PM orlock: whats it made out of?
09:06 PM orlock: pla or abs?
09:06 PM orlock: herringbone style?
09:16 PM -!- #robotics mode set to -o by Tom_L
10:21 PM rue_bed: ok lets try lots of tea and see if I can wake up
10:22 PM rue_bed: NOT herringbone, thast why I had to design me own gera
10:22 PM rue_bed: pla
10:33 PM orlock: Why no herringbome?
10:33 PM orlock: just curious, is all
10:35 PM rue_shop4: dosn't mesh as well per quality of print
10:36 PM rue_shop4: if anything, they should have gone to lash-free gears (split)
10:54 PM rue_shop3: ok, I have my gear, ~will it fit~
10:54 PM Tom_L: https://www.nexengroup.com/nxn/nxns/Ring+Drive+Indexer/Nexen%20TechDoc%20-%20Roller%20Pinion%20vs%20Involute%20gear.pdf
10:54 PM Tom_L: consider something like that
10:54 PM Tom_L: zero backlash
10:57 PM Tom_L: https://khkgears.net/new/gear_knowledge/gear_technical_reference/gear_backlash.html
10:57 PM Tom_L: other comparisons
10:57 PM rue_shop4: I bought the woodgears program
10:58 PM rue_shop4: fig 6.8 there
10:58 PM rue_shop4: bah, I blew the size of the hex hole
11:01 PM orlock: rue: pics?
11:02 PM rue_shop4: ... yes I can do that!
11:02 PM rue_shop4: to the pi cam!!!!
11:02 PM rue_shop4: da na na na na na da na na na na na na
11:03 PM rue_shop4: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/pi/IMG31May2018_032706.jpg
11:03 PM rue_shop4: wow, +1 for adding a view finder!
11:03 PM rue_shop4: (the blue gear)
11:07 PM orlock: ok
11:07 PM orlock: what makes it speacial?
11:07 PM rue_shop4: 43 teeth and thick
11:14 PM rue_shop4: hahahaha I didn't blow it, the one I measured off is for metric