#robotics Logs
Jan 27 2018
#robotics Calendar
01:16 AM rue_shop3: there is nothing quite like the sound of 10 UPSs beeping in a dark room
01:19 AM rue_shop3: Tom_L, cool
02:12 AM rue_: someone mentioned voxle trees, who was that?
03:16 AM rue_shop3: ok, the spindle motor is about 10 ohms
03:51 AM veverak: rue_shop3: me
03:51 AM veverak: (voxel tree)
03:54 AM rue_: ah, how is the data structred for that
03:54 AM rue_: what if youhave isolated pockets of voxels?
03:54 AM veverak: tree
03:54 AM veverak: each node represents voxel
03:55 AM rue_: and how do you know the direction of the next voxel in the tree?
03:55 AM veverak: and etiher is leaf or has 8 children (that divides it,s space uniformly)
03:55 AM rue_: 1 of 26?
03:55 AM veverak: rue_: it's either leaf or 8children
03:55 AM veverak: so you choose
03:55 AM rue_: 8?
03:56 AM rue_: each voxel has 26 possable adjacent voxels
03:56 AM veverak: first children has 'x,y,z' offset
03:56 AM veverak: second -x,y,z
03:56 AM rue_: oh, you specify the position of each one?
03:56 AM veverak: and so on
03:56 AM veverak: sec, on my mobile, will go to pc
03:56 AM rue_: er, its increment or decrement your axiz?
03:58 AM veverak: so, root voxel represents the entire area of the tree, it has known position and lenght of an edge
03:58 AM veverak: it (propably) has 8 children
03:58 AM rue_: k...
03:58 AM veverak: that equaly divides the space the voxel represents
03:58 AM rue_: area o volume?
03:59 AM rue_: r
03:59 AM veverak: volume
03:59 AM rue_: ok
03:59 AM rue_: so then the volume is broken down into 8 subspaces
03:59 AM veverak: you define the rule for the position of children, but let's say that children on index '0' has [1,1,1] relative coord, '1' has [-1,1,1] and so on
03:59 AM veverak: yeah
03:59 AM rue_: aaah
03:59 AM veverak: and you assign each index of the children array it's relative offset position
03:59 AM veverak: that is hardcoded
03:59 AM veverak: than, based on the position and edge of the parent
04:00 AM veverak: you are able to calculate position and edge of it's children
04:00 AM rue_: so, doesn't that mean you just have an organized list of every voxels position?
04:00 AM veverak: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Octree2.svg/958px-Octree2.svg.png
04:00 AM veverak: rue_: depends
04:01 AM rue_: ah, no, cause your saying which of the 8 subspaces it is
04:01 AM rue_: which is just 3 bits
04:01 AM veverak: rue_: there is one thing
04:01 AM veverak: you can effeciently prune the tree
04:01 AM veverak: so the variance of depth between leafs and root is quite high
04:02 AM veverak: and I literally have: struct Node { float occupancy; Node * child }
04:02 AM veverak: Node * child -> either null, or points to Node child[8]
04:02 AM rue_: and you can play with the resolution
04:02 AM rue_: cause its not defined
04:02 AM veverak: exactly
04:02 AM veverak: yup
04:03 AM rue_: hmm
04:03 AM veverak: so, the nodes are REALLY small
04:03 AM veverak: and you can effeciently scale the resolution
04:03 AM rue_: now I just need to remember what I wanted to use it for
04:03 AM rue_: not voxels ;)
04:04 AM rue_: but I needed to define a large array without having to need space for elements that didn't exist
04:04 AM veverak: https://meshing.lanl.gov/proj/examples/ex_octree_refine_intersect_object/hex_octree_02.png here the autoscaling is quite obvious
04:04 AM veverak: rue_: trees are generally good idea for that :)
04:06 AM veverak: do you want to elaborate more on what data you store?
04:06 AM rue_: I cant remember
04:06 AM rue_: I probabaly will later
04:09 AM rue_: oooh
04:09 AM rue_: found the problem
04:09 AM rue_: its 2am
04:10 AM rue_: think I want to build an IGBT driver for this spindle motor
04:15 AM SpeedEvil: what voltage?
04:15 AM SpeedEvil: IGBT is generally a bad choice for under 100V or so
04:22 AM rue_: 100V
04:23 AM rue_: 10A
04:24 AM rue_: the 400V bipolar burned out again
04:25 AM rue_: what eh drop 2V?
04:25 AM SpeedEvil: yes
04:25 AM rue_: hmm 20W
04:26 AM SpeedEvil: 2v on each side of course
04:26 AM rue_: this bipolar is 1V
04:26 AM rue_: not an H bridge
04:26 AM rue_: just speed control
04:27 AM rue_: something about the 25W base resistor on the current driver bothers me
04:27 AM rue_: and its 50V base drive supply
04:28 AM SpeedEvil: If it's linear, you need to check the SOA carefully
04:28 AM rue_: its switching
04:28 AM rue_: tl494
04:43 AM rue_: I suppose its less trouble to put a new transistor in, and give it a flyback diode
04:44 AM rue_: must have started arcing or something, which is odd, there are a few caps across the line
04:44 AM rue_: shouldn't be able to achive 800V
04:45 AM rue_: base is rated to 5A
04:45 AM rue_: the supply can only give it 2.5A
04:47 AM rue_: hmm, the tl494 output transistor is only rated to 42V
11:31 AM Tom_L: spindle is mounted now
11:32 AM Tom_L: just need to check for square once more
11:33 AM Tom_L: then lay out the hole grid for the table
12:33 PM tttb2 is now known as tttb
01:21 PM rue_shop3: :)
01:37 PM rue_shop3: where is thebear?
03:59 PM Tom_L: coolant mister arrived today
04:00 PM Tom_L: rue_shop3, got cad files for your parts?
04:27 PM rue_shop3: the paint sprayer ones?
04:27 PM rue_shop3: trying to fix my spindle controller
04:27 PM rue_shop3: something strange is wrong
04:29 PM Tom_L: i thought you were making a new one
04:30 PM rue_shop3: safe diff
04:31 PM rue_shop3: if I could find a case that fit the transformer I'd be doing more
04:32 PM Tom_L: ?
04:32 PM Tom_L: why does it need a case?
04:32 PM rue_shop3: to keep the transformer and circuit boards from all shorting out
04:32 PM Tom_L: guess that would be a plus
04:32 PM rue_shop3: the old case sucks
04:33 PM rue_shop3: about 2x too big
04:33 PM Tom_L: cut it down and weld the sides back
04:33 PM rue_shop3: I do have a case thats 89% the size I need
04:33 PM Tom_L: can't decide on the hole spacing for my table
04:33 PM Tom_L: 1" looks a bit tight
04:34 PM Tom_L: that's what i had on the sherline
04:34 PM Tom_L: but i'll likely go with 3/8" studs too
04:42 PM rue_shop3: my old machine has 1" T rail with 1/4" spaces
05:07 PM rue_shop3: really strange
05:07 PM rue_shop3: I dont get it
05:07 PM rue_shop3: its not responding to the reference voltage
05:07 PM rue_shop3: which was burned out on the chip that had been in it
05:08 PM Tom_L: did it take more stuff out with it?
05:09 PM Tom_L: https://saundersmachineworks.com/collections/all
05:09 PM Tom_L: lookin at how they did it
05:09 PM Tom_L: staggered hole spacing
05:12 PM rue_shop3: it looks like a few things happened at once
05:12 PM rue_shop3: the power transistor went, the tl494 internal 5V ref went
05:12 PM Tom_L: the actual rectangle the tool can reach is 17.75" x 9.375"
05:13 PM Tom_L: got parts to fix it?
05:13 PM rue_shop3: done, but not working
05:13 PM rue_shop3: the reference signal is being ignored
05:13 PM rue_shop3: its almost like there is an open resistor somewhere
05:14 PM Tom_L: ohm it out
05:14 PM Tom_L: brb, gotta go get my kid
05:56 PM rue_: looking at motherboards,
05:56 PM rue_: wtf is the deal with video these days?
05:56 PM rue_: so, gpu ALWAYS integrated with processor, so
05:56 PM rue_: you always have to go with the video chip on the cpu?
06:06 PM Tom_L: probably runs faster being close by
06:16 PM veverak: not always
06:16 PM veverak: buy xeon
06:16 PM veverak: :)
07:38 PM rue_shop3: I want AMD, I dont like the design intel uses
07:59 PM Tom_shop: ok, the spindle is as up and down is it's gonna get
07:59 PM rue_shop3: :)
08:00 PM Tom_shop: throw me some parts...
08:00 PM rue_shop3: what ya got for material? N2 +O2?
08:00 PM rue_shop3: with a hint of CO2?
08:01 PM Tom_shop: with my machinist square, i can not see light anywhere around my 3/8" wiggler in a collet in the spindle
08:01 PM Tom_shop: left, right front or back
08:03 PM Tom_shop: now to get on with the business of this thing
08:04 PM rue_shop3: ...
08:04 PM rue_shop3: want me to just throw you an NC file?
08:05 PM rue_shop3: I have a small one for 1/4" plate alum
08:05 PM Tom_shop: i have nc files
08:05 PM Tom_shop: i'd prefer to do the cad myself
08:05 PM rue_shop3: cam?
08:05 PM Tom_shop: so i know for sure what the tools are gonna do
08:05 PM rue_shop3: want a dxf
08:05 PM Tom_shop: i have cad cam
08:05 PM Tom_shop: that's fine
08:06 PM Tom_shop: are there tiny slots in it?
08:06 PM rue_shop3: no
08:06 PM Tom_shop: see, my cutters would be a different size than yours anyway
08:06 PM Tom_shop: i'd have to repost the cam anyway
08:06 PM rue_shop3: I use 1/8"
08:06 PM * Tom_shop gets out his 1" roughing cutter
08:07 PM Tom_shop: i may have .125, i'd have to look
08:07 PM rue_shop3: maybe the chip socket broke....
08:08 PM rue_shop3: nope
08:09 PM Tom_shop: i'm gonna run this hole pattern first to see how it fits
08:09 PM Tom_shop: above the table of course
08:09 PM Tom_shop: i do have a .125 carbide cutter here
08:09 PM * rue_shop3 listens for swearing
08:10 PM Tom_shop: looking over this mister atm
08:28 PM rue_shop3: dont get it
08:28 PM rue_shop3: it should be working
08:30 PM Tom_shop: need a couple longer bolts but this is gonna work good
08:55 PM rue_shop3: oooh ouch
08:55 PM rue_shop3: the feedback polarity of the tack was backwards
08:58 PM Tom_shop: yeah that'll cause runaway
08:58 PM rue_shop3: nothing more annoying than a shy hunch
08:58 PM rue_shop3: "IT CANT POSSIBLY BE BACKWARDS!!! LEAVE ME ALONE!!!"
08:58 PM Tom_shop: gonna take a pic of the grid pattern i just ran and marked with a pen
08:58 PM rue_shop3: "but.... but.. but..."
09:03 PM Tom_L: loading..
09:08 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Mister1.jpg
09:08 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Mister_plumbing2.jpg
09:08 PM rue_shop3: ok, that was it... labeling corrected
09:08 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/X_grid_pattern.jpg
09:09 PM Tom_L: take a peek at the last one and give me your opinion of the hole layout
09:09 PM Tom_L: the dots are the pattern of course and the other stuff are bolts on the bottom side
09:09 PM rue_shop3: your going to miss the rails, right?
09:09 PM Tom_L: ^^
09:09 PM rue_shop3: k
09:09 PM rue_shop3: the lines along the y, are those the limits?
09:09 PM Tom_L: the vertical lines are the limits
09:10 PM Tom_L: horizontal are just the rails
09:10 PM rue_shop3: fiar bit of room for clamps
09:10 PM Tom_L: i have way beyond the table in Y
09:10 PM rue_shop3: looks good tom, now get it dirty :)
09:10 PM Tom_L: and i can drill outside the lines for clamping fixtures so it's not wasted space
09:10 PM Tom_L: if i need the full area to cut something
09:11 PM Tom_L: that's one of those chinaco mist sprayers
09:16 PM rue_shop3: yea
09:16 PM rue_shop3: did you try it?
09:16 PM rue_shop3: took verry little tuning for mine to behave nicely
09:18 PM Tom_L: i plugged the sprayer in dry
09:18 PM Tom_L: i think it'll do ok
09:18 PM Tom_L: i'd like to get some actual coolant from my bud to use if i'm gonna put anything in it
09:26 PM Tom_L: rue_shop3, got some dxf files?
09:26 PM rue_shop3: when it works, its a nice motor driver, it can take that pathetic weedeater motor and have it really put out torque
09:26 PM rue_shop3: sure, something simple or more elaborate?
09:27 PM Tom_L: nice
09:27 PM Tom_L: glad you got it working
09:27 PM Tom_L: anything you need made...
09:27 PM rue_shop3: ok, 1 min
09:28 PM rue_shop3: the layer called "flat"
09:31 PM rue_shop3: got it?
09:35 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:35 PM Tom_L: just trying to figure out how to get it into my cad cam
09:35 PM Tom_L: without firing up the old dos one
09:37 PM Tom_L: gotta start up in 32bit mode
09:38 PM Tom_L: i got a dxf converter i think
09:43 PM rue_: should just be able to import the dxf and apply operations
09:43 PM Tom_L: it brings it in but it brings it into the drawing editor
09:43 PM Tom_L: not the sketch editor
09:44 PM rue_: they overcomplicated that didn't they
09:44 PM Tom_L: i may have it...
09:44 PM rue_: takes me about 8 mins to turn that into an NC job, but thats cause the computer is so horridly slow
09:46 PM Tom_L: it doesn't like that file
09:47 PM Tom_L: at least sw doesn't
09:47 PM Tom_L: it processed it
09:47 PM Tom_L: but nothing's there
09:47 PM rue_: ... wtf, the specs on my current machine meet or beat the new stuff I'm looking at getting
09:47 PM rue_: Tom_L, you see a layer called 'flat'?
09:48 PM Tom_L: ahh there it is
09:48 PM Tom_L: it was hiding under a 'new part'
09:48 PM rue_: I have a tripple, 3.3G, ...
09:49 PM rue_: this one is a dual 3.8
09:49 PM Tom_L: mm
09:49 PM Tom_L: forgot where i put it :D
09:50 PM rue_: geez, it looks like I might as well just get a quad for my current baord
09:50 PM Tom_L: ok i got it now
09:51 PM rue_: I'm not gonna go down to 2.4G just to get 16 cores, almost no software properly threads these days anyhow
09:51 PM Tom_L: crap, it's in mm
09:51 PM rue_: 16core 3.3G, er no
09:51 PM rue_: Tom_L, yea, its all metric
09:52 PM rue_: I made the jump
09:52 PM rue_: and I dont use 1.8" bits, I use 3.175mm
09:52 PM Tom_L: how wide is the part?
09:52 PM rue_: about 4"?
09:52 PM Tom_L: 108.87mm
09:53 PM Tom_L: just makeing sure the scale was ok
09:53 PM rue_: so, in the last 6 years, desktops havn't improved a BIT
09:54 PM tttb: desktops don't need to improve themselves anymore
09:55 PM tttb: their sole responsibility is software development
09:55 PM rue_: but, I'm serious, my tripple 3.3G machine is prettymuch still top of the line
09:55 PM rue_: I'm sure its over 5 years old
09:55 PM tttb: well, bitcoin has been raping the computing world, that's why
09:56 PM rue_: so, I should ugprade my machine by getting a 3.3G quad core and lots of memory
09:56 PM rue_: cause, thats really all there is
09:56 PM rue_: 8-o
09:56 PM tttb: you should help destroy bitcoin
09:56 PM rue_: I tried, I couldn't convert $100 to bitcoin
09:57 PM rue_: I could have made $200 and pulled out
09:59 PM rue_: how much do I made if I leave a miner running in the background
09:59 PM rue_: 5c./day?
09:59 PM tttb: not sure
10:00 PM tttb: all i know is, bitcoin is killing people
10:00 PM rue_: load average: 1.20, 1.34, 1.35 huh, so I'm using about 1.3 cpu's
10:01 PM tttb: you can mine dogecoin with CPU power
10:01 PM rue_: which is basically just firefox
10:01 PM rue_: prolly someone running a bitcoin miner in the back of my firefox tabs
10:01 PM Tom_L: this is easy to do, i just forgot how i did it
10:01 PM * rue_ grins
10:01 PM tttb: the're probably in the firmware lol
10:01 PM rue_: mastercam
10:02 PM Tom_L: no
10:02 PM * rue_ grins
10:02 PM Tom_L: i have a copy of the latest mastercam though
10:02 PM Tom_L: student
10:02 PM Tom_L: i'll do it on the dos one, it should work better
10:02 PM rue_: select outline, profile, outside, 6.5mm deep, 47mm/min, plunge at 10mm/min, done
10:03 PM rue_: { 3.175mm bit }
10:03 PM Tom_L: yeah, this 3d want's 3d not a flat file
10:03 PM rue_: huh
10:03 PM Tom_L: so i gotta convert it to something it's ok with
10:03 PM rue_: only knows complex
10:03 PM Tom_L: i've had to to this before
10:03 PM rue_: I could turn it into an stl
10:03 PM Tom_L: oh god no
10:04 PM Tom_L: this uses 3 file formats, sh2 sh3 and sh4
10:04 PM Tom_L: it won't use a sh2 unless you force it to
10:04 PM rue_: I'll give you a copy of my cam program when I finish writing it
10:04 PM Tom_L: i don't need it
10:04 PM rue_: or along the way as I go
10:05 PM rue_: no, I can tell your software isn't impeding you a bit...
10:05 PM Tom_L: it's me not the software
10:05 PM Tom_L: i forgot how i did it
10:05 PM Tom_L: i very seldom do this conversion
10:05 PM Tom_L: i've got the file imported
10:05 PM Tom_L: but it's all surfaces
10:05 PM rue_: extrude drawing,
10:06 PM rue_: 6.25mm in Z
10:06 PM rue_: wow, I'm spending more time today trying to not fall asleep
10:06 PM Tom_L: i'll just save it as a different format
10:07 PM rue_: half the time working on the spidle controller was waiting for my eyes to open again
10:07 PM rue_: dxf isn't portable enough?
10:07 PM rue_: dunno tom, ...
10:07 PM Tom_L: for my old version of this it is
10:07 PM rue_: how did you make the files for the boxes?
10:08 PM rue_: dont tell me you hand coded them....
10:08 PM Tom_L: what boxes?
10:08 PM rue_: hand coding made me not use my old machine for about 12 years
10:08 PM rue_: the programmers
10:08 PM Tom_L: oh, i had a 3d model from hammond
10:09 PM Tom_L: wireframe
10:09 PM rue_: must be an interesting process to tell it what to make and whats already made
10:10 PM Tom_L: i did a lathe job for a dude in UK and i had to go back to my dos version to convert it to a flat file
10:14 PM Tom_L: dammit i copied the wrong file!
10:16 PM Tom_L: yeah i enjoy it usually
10:16 PM rue_: suppose I should check ont eh cnc
10:18 PM Tom_L: i should install the dos version on one of these pcs then i wouldn't have so much trouble
10:33 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, would you like the tiny13 code I'm using for my air-puff timers on the cnc machines?
10:34 PM Tom_L: naw
10:34 PM rue_shop3: you could probably use it on the T10
10:34 PM Tom_L: yeah probably
10:34 PM rue_shop3: puffing saves a LOT of air
10:34 PM * rue_shop3 looks to the wolf "isnt that right?"
10:35 PM rue_shop3: I havn't tried huffing, if its more efficient, I wouldn't know
10:35 PM Tom_L: ok that's better
10:36 PM rue_shop3: huffing?
10:36 PM rue_shop3: what do you use for sacraficial on the cnc?
10:36 PM rue_shop3: doorskin?
10:36 PM rue_shop3: plastic?
10:38 PM Tom_L: aluminum plate
10:38 PM rue_shop3: ah
10:39 PM rue_shop3: so far I'm using normalized wood
10:39 PM rue_shop3: arg, cant get my ass out of chair
10:40 PM rue_shop3: I need the old motherbards to go somewhere
10:41 PM Tom_L: you got alot of extra shit in that file
10:42 PM rue_shop3: the only good layer is the one called 'flat'
10:42 PM rue_shop3: I just throw out the rest
10:42 PM rue_shop3: select, delete
10:42 PM Tom_L: this doesn't differentiate between layers
10:42 PM Tom_L: on this type of import
10:42 PM rue_shop3: oh thats not good
10:42 PM rue_shop3: wow, they really dont do dxf
10:43 PM rue_shop3: I can send ya a copy without the extra layers
10:43 PM Tom_L: no i fixed it
10:44 PM Tom_L: got a good profile now
10:44 PM Tom_L: all lines and arcs, no friggin surfaces etc
10:44 PM rue_shop3: k\
10:51 PM Tom_L: i think the mm / inch is messin with it
10:51 PM Tom_L: because i'm using an inch tool file list
10:51 PM rue_shop3: I threw a bunch of new wrenches in there for ya didn't I?
10:52 PM Tom_L: no i've had to deal with this before but i can't remember what i did... but i did get it
10:52 PM Tom_L: too bad you didn't save it in inch
10:53 PM rue_shop3: I dont think my cad does the conversion, it'd be out by 25.4x
10:53 PM rue_shop3: had a few of those WTF??? moments
10:53 PM Tom_L: when i post it, it's supposed to do the conversion
10:54 PM Tom_L: but it's not looking right just yet
10:56 PM * rue_shop3 looks over the reflow oven code
10:57 PM Tom_L: there's still extra stuff in it
10:57 PM Tom_L: i put a cutter on it and it profiles it twice and it shouldn't
10:59 PM Tom_L: how big is the hole?
10:59 PM Tom_L: it says the radius is 3.175
11:00 PM Tom_L: that must be mm but it's acting like inch
11:00 PM rue_shop3: iirc the hole is 1/4"
11:00 PM rue_shop3: but it might have been made small for being drilled out
11:00 PM rue_shop3: so yea, 1/8" radius
11:00 PM Tom_L: yeah this isn't right
11:01 PM rue_shop3: there might have been overlapping circles in the layers
11:01 PM Tom_L: it's acting like it's a 3" radius hole
11:01 PM rue_shop3: 3"!?
11:03 PM Tom_L: it's mixing the units
11:03 PM Tom_L: i'll fiddle with it tomorrow
11:05 PM rue_shop3: I can try a twiddle on my side if you just wnat to play with it
11:05 PM rue_shop3: these encoders from china are SO noisy...
11:05 PM Tom_L: if you can save it as inch it would be alot easier
11:05 PM rue_shop3: (control knob encoders)
11:06 PM rue_shop3: let me make something up
11:06 PM Tom_L: i know what it needs but i'm not sure i have it made up
11:06 PM Tom_L: it requires a job file to import it and i think i used an inch one and should have used a metric one
11:10 PM rue_shop3: lets try that
11:11 PM rue_shop3: would you like to see if that opens ok?
11:11 PM rue_shop3: I did have to scale it down
11:11 PM rue_shop3: stripped the excess layers
11:12 PM rue_shop3: the encoders are almost horrible to the point of making soemthing instead of using them
11:14 PM rue_shop3: its funny, the cam processor I use cant comprehend drilling holes
11:28 PM Tom_L: just a sec
11:28 PM Tom_L: what am i looking for?
11:38 PM rue_shop3: garf
11:38 PM Tom_L: yeah
11:39 PM rue_shop3: k, its imperial and clean
11:39 PM rue_shop3: (should be)
11:45 PM Tom_L: yeah it's 4" wide
11:45 PM Tom_L: now
11:45 PM Tom_L: better
11:46 PM rue_shop3: ok
11:46 PM rue_shop3: I'd have thought dxf would be a really common format
11:47 PM Tom_L: it is until you get into the 3d world
11:47 PM rue_shop3: when did the world go from 2.5 to 3?
11:48 PM Tom_L: i'll still have to convert it in my dos ver but i was able to import it in the new one
11:48 PM rue_shop3: in 98 it was all 2.5
11:48 PM Tom_L: it just comes in as surfaces
11:48 PM Tom_L: if i use the old program it will take care of that
11:49 PM Tom_L: i should install it on one of these machines but quite frankly i'm not even sure where the disks are
11:58 PM Tom_L: yeah that's alot better
11:59 PM Tom_L: i can do it in the newer cad cam ver