#robotics Logs
Jan 01 2018
#robotics Calendar
12:09 AM rue_shop3: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG the new cnc spindle speed cntroller will NOT behave
12:12 AM rue_shop3: its a 300w power supply and dispite having a complete buck power converter to the motor, at 5V to the motor the controller flips into overcurrent
12:12 AM * Tom_shop grabs a doughnut
12:20 AM rue_shop3: arg, why isn't my dc-dc converter working right
12:20 AM rue_shop3: this motor is insane tho, it can try to pull like 30A at like 5V
12:25 AM anonnumberanon: Tom so how straight is it so far? Did u make these cuts in order to find out?
12:29 AM rue_mohr: they were done on his sherline
12:35 AM anonnumberanon: Oh
12:39 AM anonnumberanon: Happy new year!
12:46 AM rue_mohr: .. 47 mins ago?
12:46 AM rue_mohr: or in 2 hours?
12:55 AM Tholia2: the two time zones that matter. not even the courtesy of the 9/8C.
01:14 AM rue_mohr: wild party, I'm falling asleep
01:14 AM Tom_L: i'm done for the night too
01:14 AM Tom_L: got the X screw mounted
01:14 AM Tom_L: no pics
01:15 AM rue_mohr: oh pics
01:15 AM rue_mohr: I have to adjust my camera for the new year
01:15 AM Tom_L: too busy cleaning up the mess
01:15 AM rue_mohr: oh and I kileld the battery
01:25 AM mrdata: killed?
01:26 AM mrdata: motors pull lots of current when they do work
01:26 AM rue_mohr: and the camera kills its battery if its left on when plugged into usb for downlaod
01:31 AM rue_mohr: oh, if Iput a max duty on the converter it might live
01:41 AM Tom_L: i may put a breaker on the motor instead of fuses
01:42 AM Tom_L: i wonder if 5A is too big
01:43 AM Tom_L: 120 - 240v 5A
01:43 AM Tom_L: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=74_76&product_id=134
01:59 AM rue_mohr: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
01:59 AM rue_mohr: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
01:59 AM rue_mohr: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
01:59 AM rue_mohr: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
01:59 AM rue_mohr: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
01:59 AM rue_mohr: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
01:59 AM rue_mohr: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
02:02 AM anonnumberanon: For when it gets stuck in aluminum
02:02 AM anonnumberanon: Bit will break too
02:02 AM anonnumberanon: Before or not break
02:07 AM rue_mohr: I suppose if I'm going to stay around till I'm 10000 I should get used to doing that alone
02:08 AM mrdata: i guess youre on the west coast
02:08 AM * rue_mohr look up in the scroll
02:08 AM rue_mohr: aparently I'm the only one on earth
02:09 AM rue_mohr: anyone can ask to hitch hike, not everyone gets picked up
02:10 AM mrdata: here, midnight was 3 hrs ago
02:11 AM rue_mohr: so it'll be antoher 365 days before you dont say happy newyear
02:11 AM mrdata: lol
02:12 AM mrdata: i said it a lot, tonight
02:12 AM rue_mohr: and you couldn't even type it once....
02:12 AM mrdata: banana fingers, sorry
03:09 AM anonnumberanon: You actually thing that you could be alive when humans discover immortality?
03:09 AM anonnumberanon: Roue?
03:10 AM anonnumberanon: Should we go for it instead building these silly robots?
03:10 AM anonnumberanon: Im in.
03:37 AM rue_mohr: hah, dude, I'm sorry, your so far behind!
04:25 AM rue_bed: if you want a lead, start reverse engineering your mind
04:25 AM rue_bed: your life depends on it
05:22 AM anonnumberanon: Thats not a lead...
05:23 AM anonnumberanon: Tat's a dream.
05:24 AM anonnumberanon: I cant begin reverse engineer myself i dont et even understand myself!
09:20 AM rue_bed: so then, you cant reverse engineer your way out of the box
09:38 AM Tom_L: woke up to -2°F
09:39 AM rue_bed: 0c here
09:39 AM rue_bed: so, ouch, your cold
09:43 AM Tom_L: spammer had his fun
10:12 AM rue_bed: no
10:13 AM rue_bed: Ruccas makes it his life mission to hate freenode
10:13 AM rue_bed: the nicks the bots are using is taken from some idle users who aren't in channels
10:13 AM rue_bed: with a random 3 digit postfix
10:50 AM rue_bed: there is a channel user count cutoff
10:50 AM rue_bed: cant tell what it is yet, the bot has a long restart timer
10:55 AM rue_bed: oooh, the base nicks have never been used either, they dont turn up in any irc logs
10:58 AM Tom_L: you should spend your awake time being productive
10:59 AM rue_bed: >:| must kill maker of floodbot
10:59 AM Tom_L: you will never catch him
11:00 AM Tom_L: he's already planning for next year
11:00 AM rue_bed: hes logged in, I just need a bit more info
11:00 AM Tom_L: he didn't bother this channel either
11:01 AM Tom_L: avr and a couple others i'm on
11:01 AM rue_bed: not this time, last times
11:01 AM rue_bed: it gets klined
11:01 AM rue_bed: there are a number of nicks that are set up
11:01 AM rue_bed: on standby
11:09 AM rue_bed: huh, all the exploits of rucas and others are based on securrity holes
11:28 AM rue_mohr: "Shipment Status: Electronic information submitted by shipper on January 02, 2018"
11:29 AM rue_mohr: uh, is it the 2nd anywhere right now?
11:31 AM Tom_L: what time is it on mars?
11:36 AM rue_mohr: if it takes canada post 7 months to get a package across BC, I'm NOT gonna live to see one from mars
11:40 AM veverak: lol
12:09 PM anonnumberanon: Landlady wrecked her car real good this time.
12:10 PM rue_mohr: hopefully not zhanx wife?
12:18 PM anonnumberanon: Im gonna fix it though
12:18 PM anonnumberanon: Maybe make some reengineered front end
12:18 PM anonnumberanon: I got the tools...
12:28 PM SpeedEvil: rue_mohr: Philipenes, Aus
03:01 PM AndrewGazelka: I am slightly confused. In a two-dimensional state space why is the control a function of the state? Wouldn't it be the other way around? I am confused how it would be generated the way it currently is. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/KAw104P8/image.png
03:01 PM AndrewGazelka: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkRYMVUZTs )
03:02 PM rue_mohr: huh, its inertia based
03:05 PM orlock: rue: happy new year!
03:06 PM AndrewGazelka: rue_mohr: are u talking to me
03:06 PM rue_mohr: dont know anymore about it, need lunch and to move firewood
03:28 PM rue_mohr: http://users.otenet.gr/~athsam/speetch_filter.htm
03:42 PM veverak: https://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/tutorials/collision-detection-using-the-separating-axis-theorem--gamedev-169
03:42 PM veverak: <#
03:42 PM veverak: <3
04:22 PM rue_shop3: ok, I moved some firewood and cleaned the ash out of the boiler
04:22 PM Tom_L: what's next?
04:22 PM Tom_L: was i supposed to do something today?
04:23 PM veverak: well
04:23 PM veverak: I want to view something in C++
04:23 PM veverak: octree
04:23 PM veverak: not sure what to use for the 3D viewer
04:24 PM rue_shop3: povray
04:24 PM Tom_L: https://octomap.github.io/
04:25 PM veverak: yeah, I know octomap.github.io
04:36 PM anonnumberanon: https://ibb.co/dgqomb
04:43 PM rue_shop3: I FOUND THE BURNING SMELL!
04:43 PM rue_shop3: from the new cnc
04:43 PM rue_shop3: turns out the motor connector has been gradually burning up
04:44 PM rue_shop3: didn't see it when I was searching
04:45 PM veverak: :)
04:50 PM rue_shop3: M5
04:51 PM rue_shop3: hmm, the spindle should be able to throw an alarm
04:56 PM rue_shop3: Need to make another spindle regulator anyhow
04:57 PM rue_shop3: hmmm
05:02 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, if you got a mill bit chattering, you lower your rpm or bump up the feed rate?
05:25 PM Tom_L: depends
05:25 PM Tom_L: sometimes you just can't avoid it
05:30 PM rue_shop3: I usually find that it means you need to increase the average bit load
05:31 PM Tom_L: if you have a loose machine nothing will fix it
05:31 PM Tom_L: if that's not it varying one or the other may solve it
05:32 PM rue_shop3: well yea
05:32 PM Tom_L: you should have heard my sherline bitchin and moanin
05:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Shims/X_Axis_ballnut_shim1.jpg
05:32 PM rue_shop3: after those last adjustments my spindle controller is working awesome
05:32 PM Tom_L: for one thing, the bit is too long
05:33 PM Tom_L: but it was all i had that would reach
05:33 PM rue_shop3: :) yea
05:33 PM rue_shop3: reach?
05:33 PM rue_shop3: over the clamps?
05:33 PM Tom_L: probably about a .1" deep full width cut
05:33 PM rue_shop3: ?
05:33 PM rue_shop3: your just milling it thinner aren't ya?
05:33 PM Tom_L: yes
05:34 PM Tom_L: that's as far as i went with it
05:34 PM Tom_L: just needed a small shim
05:34 PM rue_shop3: largest bit the belt could take?
05:34 PM Tom_L: i dunno
05:34 PM Tom_L: my flycutter wouldn't reach
05:34 PM rue_shop3: ?
05:34 PM rue_shop3: material was too low?
05:34 PM Tom_L: not enough Z travel
05:34 PM Tom_L: yes
05:39 PM Tom_L: what are you milling?
05:49 PM Tom_L: maybe i'll go mount the X motor tonight
06:05 PM Tom_L: meh, maybe not. i don't wanna heat it up just for the short time i'd have to work on it
06:19 PM veverak: well
06:19 PM veverak: STL mesh -> octree map
06:19 PM veverak: done
06:19 PM veverak: :)
06:19 PM veverak: or, written
06:19 PM veverak: now to test it
06:54 PM robotustra: veverak, what is octree?
06:55 PM veverak: tree to hold information about space
06:55 PM veverak: https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=octree&safe=off&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjHqq3kiLjYAhVLC-wKHZEaD9UQ_AUICigB&biw=1600&bih=844
06:55 PM robotustra: which space?
06:55 PM veverak: I find the images self-explanatory
06:55 PM veverak: :)
06:55 PM veverak: 3D environment the robot is in
06:56 PM veverak: can be seen as tree of voxels
06:56 PM robotustra: what is voxels?
06:56 PM veverak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voxel
06:57 PM Tom_L: yeah, let me google that for you
06:57 PM Tom_L: is google a noun or a vowel?
06:57 PM robotustra: ah ok
06:57 PM robotustra: 3d pixel
06:58 PM robotustra: volume + pixel = voxel
06:59 PM veverak: yeah, 3D pixel
06:59 PM veverak: in octree, each node represents one voxel
06:59 PM robotustra: do you describe your robot environment in terms of voxels?
06:59 PM veverak: which can have 8 children - voxels dividng it's space into 8 parts
06:59 PM veverak: :)
06:59 PM veverak: robotustra: yep, but not simple voxels
07:00 PM veverak: tree
07:00 PM robotustra: to build what?
07:00 PM robotustra: a model?
07:00 PM veverak: the model
07:00 PM veverak: :)
07:00 PM veverak: robotustra: using grid of voxels is not effective
07:00 PM veverak: the tree is
07:00 PM robotustra: of cause
07:01 PM veverak: also, each node of the tree contains a "chance" that it's content is solid
07:01 PM robotustra: I prefer to work with meshes
07:01 PM veverak: this way I describe empty space
07:01 PM veverak: space made of solid material
07:01 PM veverak: space where the robot is not sure
07:01 PM veverak: and you also got an idea about space where you have not been
07:01 PM veverak: robotustra: meshes have problems
07:02 PM robotustra: meshes can have problems, but I don't jave problem with them
07:02 PM robotustra: have*
07:02 PM veverak: robotustra: not effective much, only tells what is occupied, can't tell difference between free and unknown space
07:02 PM veverak: yeah, I can understand that :)
07:02 PM veverak: octree has proble mto ofor me, just not relevant for now
07:03 PM veverak: also, writing collision detection for it is easy....
07:03 PM robotustra: I use normales to the surfaces to tell what is ocupied and what is free
07:03 PM veverak: and it is O(logn) detection ofc
07:03 PM veverak: robotustra: hmm, how do you know what is free and what is unknown?
07:03 PM robotustra: no
07:04 PM robotustra: I want to make a map for my robot in terms of solids and surfaces
07:05 PM robotustra: I prefer simple parametrization like for plane, using only 6 numbers
07:05 PM veverak: just trying to show why meshes may not be the best for this
07:05 PM veverak: that is actually one of the nice things about octree
07:05 PM robotustra: oh ok
07:05 PM veverak: they have low memory footprint
07:06 PM veverak: as each node is made of: one double, one pointer
07:06 PM veverak: :)
07:06 PM veverak: robotustra: I mean, it may be good enough for you
07:06 PM veverak: than you should use it
07:06 PM veverak: (meshes)
07:06 PM veverak: but beware that there may be problems and they are not considered best solution
07:06 PM robotustra: the problem of compact data - is operation with it, you spend more time to crawl the tree
07:07 PM veverak: will benchmark that one
07:07 PM veverak: if it is a problem, will increase the size of the nodes
07:07 PM * veverak used OOP skills to cover the fact about what is calculated and what is stored in memory
07:08 PM robotustra: why I go with surfaces instead of solids - the number of nodes ~a^2 for surface, and ~a^3 for volume
07:08 PM veverak: ?
07:09 PM robotustra: so I decided to describe solids as a boundaries
07:09 PM robotustra: volume is ~ to cube, surface is proportional to square
07:10 PM veverak: I have no idea what yo uare talking just now
07:10 PM veverak: or, what is the point
07:11 PM robotustra: if you double the mech over the linear dimension - you'll get the the x 4 times the number of dot's on the surface and x 8 times number for volume
07:11 PM veverak: wat
07:11 PM veverak: "if you double the mech over the linear dimension" means what?
07:12 PM robotustra: let's say you have a line
07:12 PM robotustra: and you make a grid in 1 dimension
07:12 PM veverak: ok
07:12 PM robotustra: if you want to double the density of your grid - you'll double the number of points
07:13 PM veverak: yeah
07:14 PM veverak: and that makes how the meshes better than octree _actually_ ?
07:14 PM robotustra: for the surface, or 2 dimensions - doubling the density in 2 dimensions - you'll quad the number of dots in the mesh
07:14 PM veverak: :)
07:14 PM veverak: this is one of the benchmarks I want to do
07:14 PM veverak: as I import STL into octree datastructure
07:14 PM robotustra: ok
07:14 PM robotustra: tell me after
07:14 PM veverak: however I believe I will trumph the binary STL
07:14 PM veverak: :)
07:15 PM veverak: robotustra: of course the octree actually modifies itself
07:15 PM veverak: in case all children have same chance of being "solid"
07:15 PM veverak: they are removed
07:15 PM veverak: and only their parent remains
07:15 PM robotustra: anyway I have to work with stl in my cad
07:16 PM veverak: and thing is, one of the critical operations for me is "collision detection"
07:16 PM robotustra: for compatibility with 3rd party software
07:16 PM veverak: with MESH? I would still _have_ to make a tree over it
07:16 PM veverak: :)
07:16 PM veverak: robotustra: yeah, I understand that
07:17 PM robotustra: tree is needed to simplify processing of cause
07:17 PM veverak: ?
07:18 PM veverak: again I don't understand
07:18 PM robotustra: but I would like to have bullean operatoins over solids represented in stl format
07:18 PM veverak: processing of "cause"? :)
07:18 PM robotustra: for instance to you want to display it in Open gl
07:18 PM robotustra: how do you do that?
07:19 PM veverak: not yet there, but I imagine that tree can help simplify the ammount of the data that has to be crawled
07:19 PM robotustra: or to make "high level" operations like intersection with other solids
07:19 PM veverak: I only do intersection actually, but yeah :)
07:19 PM veverak: tree is necessary
07:19 PM robotustra: you can make rough mesh
07:19 PM robotustra: for istance
07:20 PM veverak: does not seem like a smart solution
07:20 PM robotustra: or simplified mesh
07:20 PM robotustra: why not?
07:20 PM veverak: I would rather access the mesh effeciently, THAN simplify it
07:20 PM veverak: "efficient work with data " has more priority for me than "decrease the amount of data"
07:21 PM robotustra: there are different problems and different slutions ffor them
07:21 PM veverak: anyway, gn :)
07:21 PM veverak: yeah
07:21 PM veverak: robotustra: as always with everything
07:21 PM robotustra: as soon as geometrically simple objects do not have complex meshes I probably will not simplify meshes
08:09 PM rue_shop3: ok sacraficial block re-milled, apparently its cupping?!?
08:10 PM rue_shop3: veverak, easy cat data > /dev/zero
08:30 PM anonnumberanon: You are building a cnc in secret?
08:52 PM Tom_L: rue_shop3, gettin warpage?
08:55 PM rue_mohr: my 'new' one
08:55 PM rue_mohr: did a fixup on the spindle regulator, seems to be behaving now
08:55 PM rue_mohr: I think I found some of my chatter, the X axis is 'tipping' needs to be tightened back up
08:55 PM rue_mohr: http://users.otenet.gr/~athsam/speetch_filter.htm
08:58 PM rue_shop3: its just odd that the peice was cupping
09:13 PM Tom_L: rue_shop3, is this on the sherline or your mill?
09:15 PM rue_mohr: my
09:15 PM rue_mohr: my machine has that plywood table
09:15 PM rue_mohr: and I have a peice of sacraficial on it
10:00 PM Tom_L: ok
10:16 PM rue_mohr: wow, the world forgot about the late 80's voice recognition chips
10:35 PM Tom_L: hah i still have one i think
10:38 PM Tom_L: err maybe it was a speech synthesis chip
10:40 PM rue_bed: vrc-08?
10:41 PM Tom_L: i don't even remember now
10:41 PM Tom_L: it's still in a box somewhere
10:41 PM Tom_L: maybe it was a voice recorder chip, it's been too long
10:43 PM durrf2: speak n spell???
10:44 PM durrf2: thats synth tho