#robotics Logs
Dec 21 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:13 AM rue_bed: I need to see if that hex I made with the sg90s can walk
12:18 AM rue_bed: not at all sure if its strong enough
12:18 AM rue_bed: quite curious
12:18 AM anonnumberanon: oh my lord...
12:18 AM anonnumberanon: he just gave me the motherload
12:29 AM anonnumberanon: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRaDvzqVQAA5zID.jpg
12:29 AM anonnumberanon: ;)
12:29 AM yCrazyEdd is now known as CrazyEddy
12:30 AM anonnumberanon: maybe, it's in milliseconds so not servo signals, maybe this is for his bluetooth thing
12:30 AM LuminaxWk: it's titled on the paper on the top left
12:30 AM anonnumberanon: this is from 12 years ago when the guy started
12:30 AM LuminaxWk: 'New Bipedal Movement Program'
12:30 AM anonnumberanon: i see
12:31 AM LuminaxWk: 新二足歩行プログラム <- this
12:32 AM LuminaxWk: uses PIC, I approve!
12:34 AM anonnumberanon: you speak japanese?
12:34 AM LuminaxWk: actually... I should follow this guy's twitter :o
12:34 AM LuminaxWk: yesh
12:34 AM anonnumberanon: :)
12:34 AM anonnumberanon: man he just gave me his blog it's a GOLD MINE
12:34 AM LuminaxWk: I can probably learn how to take methodical notes from this guy
12:35 AM LuminaxWk: 1 week is all it needs for you to completely forget about a critical point in your project/build
12:36 AM LuminaxWk: for some, even shorter
12:36 AM anonnumberanon: that was my fear at the time
12:36 AM anonnumberanon: im glad i still have them
12:36 AM anonnumberanon: so .. wanna see his blog?
12:37 AM anonnumberanon: it has basically all the answers to the questions I have been asking myself for months
12:37 AM anonnumberanon: http://nakayanhobby.blog99.fc2.com/
12:37 AM anonnumberanon: about making my own servos
12:37 AM anonnumberanon: and stuff
12:39 AM LuminaxWk: wow... is this his workshop?
12:50 AM anonnumberanon: LuminaxWk, are you building a robot?
12:50 AM LuminaxWk: not at the moment, no
12:51 AM LuminaxWk: but it is in my research priority list :3
12:51 AM LuminaxWk: although I still have to knock-off that rubber muscle control thing
12:53 AM anonnumberanon: air muscles?
12:53 AM LuminaxWk: yeah
12:55 AM anonnumberanon: oh god
12:55 AM anonnumberanon: he has a lathe
12:56 AM anonnumberanon: MADE HIS OWN GEARS TOO
12:57 AM LuminaxWk: yerp
12:57 AM LuminaxWk: (in mass production quantity)
01:07 AM LuminaxWk: oh well... next month(next year) I'll be quitting this company and joining new engineering-focused company
01:07 AM LuminaxWk: with lots of available equipments <3
01:08 AM LuminaxWk: they do make automations, which is sort of a one-trick industrial robot, if you will
01:41 AM anonnumberanon: one of the companies that make giant fighting robots
01:41 AM anonnumberanon: Murata
02:09 AM LuminaxWk: https://www.murata.com/ja-jp/about/mboymgirl/mcheerleaders?intcid5=com_xxx_xxx_cmn_hd_xxx
02:09 AM LuminaxWk: gyro balancer?
02:20 AM anonnumberanon: yes
02:20 AM anonnumberanon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRHBSgyhDhA
02:20 AM anonnumberanon: BB8
02:50 AM LuminaxWk: I don't see any giant robots on muRata :o
02:51 AM LuminaxWk: oooh BB8
02:52 AM LuminaxWk: so it's a double gyroball :o
02:53 AM LuminaxWk: I wonder how the head and the body ball is connected... bluetooth? wifi?
04:42 AM z64556 is now known as z64555
05:06 AM micmac_: there was a giant robots fight planned usa/japan
05:06 AM micmac_: i wonder how it's going
05:06 AM micmac_: never checked since i learned about it
05:14 AM ace4016: it was lame
05:50 AM micmac_: ok..
05:50 AM micmac_: looked more remote controlled than AI
05:54 AM ace4016: it was neither
05:54 AM ace4016: was piloted
06:09 AM mumptai: too slow, not enough carnage wrt its design, boring
06:10 AM mumptai: technically maybe interesting, but if you try to please the crowds wish fro killer robots, and only deliver slow construction equipment. well you get the point
08:26 AM z64555: people were expecting too much
08:27 AM z64555: big giant robots really do move slowly
08:27 AM z64555: there's also the whole thing about trying to NOT hurt the pilots of either machine
08:29 AM AchiestDragon: well robot paintball seems to be the new sport
08:29 AM rue_bed: I'm kinda wondering if there is another video version
08:32 AM z64555: paintball is dull to watch, though
08:32 AM AchiestDragon: so was that
08:33 AM z64555: ...which was already established
08:33 AM AchiestDragon: not quite as broing to watch as kricket
08:34 AM z64555: my point being, that simulated combat needs special considerations in order to make entertaining enough to rival that of existing sports, movies, etc.
08:35 AM AchiestDragon: at least with remote pilot it would be better not having to worry about onboard pilot safty
08:36 AM z64555: yes, combat could get much much more aggressive then
08:36 AM AchiestDragon: yea
08:36 AM z64555: Battlebots is a prime example
08:37 AM AchiestDragon: like in the movie real steel (2011)
08:45 AM AchiestDragon: although they already do that with smaller ones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufOz00oYzZM
09:03 AM rue_mohr: and a good question is who is gonna fund it, they prolly did over $200k damage ea
09:04 AM rue_mohr: and I dont think the japaneese fellow was as eager about the post-repairs as he was about the event in the first place
09:05 AM AchiestDragon: that is untill it becomes a more media orentated sport and they get advertising sponsorships
09:11 AM rue_mohr: oh he scrapped it
09:11 AM rue_mohr: https://regmedia.co.uk/2005/01/27/cyber_alaskan.jpg
09:11 AM rue_mohr: after it was mostly done he tried to sell it
09:12 AM rue_mohr: didn't sell, so it became parts
09:12 AM rue_mohr: my point was gonna be that if your building a large mecha, there is no money in it
09:13 AM rue_mohr: he even took all the images down from his site of it
09:14 AM rue_mohr: https://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-05/man-machine#page-2
09:14 AM AchiestDragon: yea but even so ,the mechanics are only a small percentage of the battle , the main aria is in the code and getting it to actualy do things
09:15 AM rue_mohr: so if your building one, make sure to leverage the media attention, cause thats all there is
09:16 AM AchiestDragon: ha,, dont hae room for one
09:17 AM AchiestDragon: i finaly got most of the cad done now foy my re revised robot and am sort of happy with it
09:18 AM AchiestDragon: need to source an 18 input adc board or somthing that will give me that number of analog inputs
09:19 AM rue_mohr: AchiestDragon, cheap or good?
09:19 AM rue_mohr: casue the tiny26 is the cheapest multichannel 10 bit adc you can get
09:19 AM rue_mohr: 12 channels, iirc
09:20 AM AchiestDragon: im using pots to sence the jeg joint positions so i can use them as pids to give me smoth control rather than just the pwm servo rates alone
09:20 AM AchiestDragon: jeg / leg
09:21 AM rue_mohr: instead of just tapping the internal pots?
09:21 AM rue_mohr: the ones on the 2.5V bias of the internal controller?
09:21 AM veverak: hmm
09:22 AM AchiestDragon: yea , they also act as the other "servo shaft"
09:22 AM veverak: rue_mohr: that sounds good enough for rc servo sensing
09:22 AM veverak: was doing some calculations
09:22 AM veverak: I really need "force" feedback from the joints
09:22 AM rue_mohr: and are you gonna use the digital sense method I was talking about?
09:22 AM veverak: wanted to
09:23 AM rue_mohr: but then you decided to use $20ea force strips?
09:23 AM veverak: for 22$ I've got dynamixel servos
09:23 AM veverak: which got proper feedback
09:23 AM rue_mohr: wow, they came down
09:24 AM veverak: position/velocity/load/voltage/temp
09:24 AM veverak: the cheapest one yeah
09:24 AM rue_mohr: used to be $220
09:24 AM veverak: they still are :)
09:24 AM veverak: just made poor guy version
09:24 AM veverak: http://www.robotis.us/dynamixel-xl-320/
09:24 AM veverak: it is good for quadruped robot
09:24 AM veverak: however, I would prefer something with 360 potenciometer for practical use
09:24 AM rue_mohr: which does everything the expensive version does but for less?
09:25 AM veverak: plastic gears
09:25 AM veverak: less power
09:25 AM veverak: but functionality is same
09:25 AM veverak: just scaled down
09:25 AM rue_mohr: "Built-in clutch for reduction gear protection to improve durability and safety." <- oh look , theri compiant
09:26 AM AchiestDragon: using mg996r servos £65 for all 18 off
09:26 AM veverak: problematic is that I need 12 of them
09:26 AM rue_mohr: project has an impressive budget
09:26 AM veverak: :)
09:27 AM veverak: but I figured out that with the force+positon feedback
09:27 AM veverak: and IMU
09:27 AM rue_mohr: veverak, so, what are all the advantages of the dynamixel ones over say, a S3003?
09:27 AM veverak: I can create a script tha tselfconfigures the center of mass of the robot
09:27 AM veverak: with a knowledge of the weight of the parts
09:28 AM rue_mohr: (s3003 with the force/position sensing)
09:28 AM veverak: not much
09:28 AM rue_mohr: hmm I wonder if a S3003 weighs more or less than the dynamixel one
09:28 AM veverak: but
09:28 AM veverak: dunno
09:28 AM veverak: rue_mohr: things is, this is "buy&use"
09:28 AM AchiestDragon: i was looking at strain guage sensors on tinybug , but never got it developed far enough to try
09:29 AM rue_mohr: yup
09:29 AM veverak: question is how complex is it to get force/position sensing with s3003
09:29 AM veverak: how more complex the entire thing is going to be
09:29 AM rue_mohr: you know cause I told ya all before
09:29 AM veverak: and how good that force/position s3003 feedback is compared to the dynamixel
09:29 AM rue_mohr: thats a good question
09:29 AM rue_mohr: position should be 10 bits
09:30 AM rue_mohr: force is percvent, so, 0-100% of the servos capability
09:30 AM veverak: only good way to figure that out is to build robots from both parts and compare
09:30 AM rue_mohr: the S3003 is more software reqd for sure
09:30 AM AchiestDragon: using say a astro pi hat or other gyro board like they use on quad copters , and some sort of foot contact persure sensor you should be able to get auto leveling and load balancing sorted
09:30 AM rue_mohr: 12*$20, dont know how much coding time that buys
09:31 AM rue_mohr: haha 12*$20 is the whole budget for my 12' mecha
09:33 AM rue_mohr: I'm trying to lean more towards digital analog for sensors
09:33 AM rue_mohr: instead of having a voltage, to have a freq or duty
09:34 AM veverak: AchiestDragon: I do believe that what I want is full feedback for each joint
09:34 AM veverak: rather than only for the foot
09:35 AM veverak: was putting math together, octoree envrionment storage etc.. to actually map the 3D environment with the legs
09:35 AM veverak: rue_mohr: sure
09:35 AM veverak: rue_mohr: also, http://www.robotis.us/opencm9-04-a-no-connectors-onboard/
09:35 AM veverak: want to use this between raspberry and the dynamixels
09:35 AM veverak: I think that it als otkaes care of any other interface I can possibly require that rpi does not have
09:36 AM rue_mohr: price is horrid
09:36 AM rue_mohr: srry
09:37 AM rue_mohr: price isn't horrid
09:37 AM veverak: exactly
09:37 AM veverak: so
09:37 AM rue_mohr: I mean, the stm32 is cheaper, but its a high volume board
09:38 AM veverak: I am actually thinking about building the robot with the dynamixel parts
09:38 AM veverak: to easily get all functionality I need
09:38 AM veverak: (because university is willing to pay it)
09:38 AM veverak: and than develop the alternative with the PWM servos
09:38 AM rue_mohr: oh not your money, best excuse
09:38 AM veverak: that way, I should be able to reasonably ocmpare those two
09:38 AM veverak: :)
09:39 AM AchiestDragon: the other way is to monitor servo load ie servo current so you can worlk out the load of each servo rather than going for strain guages as starin guages would be limb stress and load on that limb
09:39 AM veverak: rue_mohr: it is now
09:39 AM veverak: however, in context of the money the uni got
09:39 AM veverak: it is also still nothing ofr them
09:40 AM veverak: AchiestDragon: rue_mohr got a nice way to monitor pwm servos
09:40 AM veverak: it's just not for free and brings potentially a lot of complexity
09:42 AM AchiestDragon: i need to do it in my own budget thats limited , so doing it cheap is an issue although if not as cheaply as rue_mohr would
09:46 AM AchiestDragon: still thinking of using optical mouse as cam mods to get a 32*32 pixel video feed and 2 as a pair to point cloud to do the sterio vison to 3d mapping sensor
09:46 AM SpeedEvil: USB cameras are very much cheaper
09:47 AM SpeedEvil: Also, optical mouse sensors are almost unavailable - the ones that break out the video feed now, and the video feed is very slow - the fps may be 1000fps - but you can read one pixel a frame
09:47 AM veverak: yeah
09:47 AM veverak: I've got a "SLAM" iny my todo
09:47 AM AchiestDragon: yea have noted they are , maybe down the res of them may do the same trick i only need about a 500mm range
09:47 AM veverak: but really, I just want to find a good ROS SLAM for USB camera ;)
09:48 AM SpeedEvil: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-3D-Fisheye-Lens-Phone-Camera-Stereo-Lens-With-Clip-For-iPhone-Samsung/282771330315?hash=item41d67c150b:g:hpAAAOSwjL5ZN1Jx
09:48 AM SpeedEvil: this gives you a nice simple optically synced view on a camera.
09:48 AM SpeedEvil: With no variation on lighting or other issues.
09:49 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2Pcs-VL53L0X-Time-of-Flight-ToF-Laser-Ranging-Sensor-Breakout-940nm-GY-VL53L0XV2-Laser-Distance-Module/32842777324.html also
09:50 AM SpeedEvil: 0-2m integrated LASER ranger, two for $10
09:50 AM AchiestDragon: apparantly the cheap ir laser range finders have issues in sunlight ,
09:51 AM AchiestDragon: from reviews and report about them
09:51 AM AchiestDragon: / reports
09:52 AM AchiestDragon: and ultrasonices well they are just so random sometimes ,, multiple echos in some spaces making them unusable in most cases
09:52 AM SpeedEvil: yes, they probably will - range will be greatly reduced
09:53 AM SpeedEvil: adding shields to reduce extra light will help
09:54 AM AchiestDragon: i just need some ranging method pointing to the aria its going to move to so it can calculate the terain its crossing in advance , and use that as a guide for where it needs to place its feet
09:56 AM SpeedEvil: Combining optical flow as you move forward of a camera pointed downwards at 45 degrees, with ranging esitmation from the above sort of periscope would get quite a robust answer.
09:56 AM AchiestDragon: ie so it can detect a step or drop or an object in the way , i dont need it to be looking 300 yards and wasting cpu trying to work out if that distant tree is in the way of it
09:57 AM AchiestDragon: split view perscope and single web cam may be a good solution
09:58 AM SpeedEvil: If cost was not paramount, I would also wonder about a backup plan of an additional LASER ranger on each leg pointing in the usual direction of leg planting from about half way up.
09:58 AM AchiestDragon: although still need to split the gif/png frame into 2 images
09:58 AM SpeedEvil: So you get warning that it's likely you're going to mis-step partway through as well.
09:59 AM SpeedEvil: This doesn't work if you're galloping of course, but for slower gaits would be fine.
09:59 AM SpeedEvil: Being able to in a controlled manner slow down using all legs that remain on the ground rather than to try to recover half a stride further along.
10:00 AM AchiestDragon: i only need the info as a guide ,, if for example it stands on something soft that flexes under the weight of the load , then thats the reason for foot pressure sence , so it knows it has a valid stable footing before proceeding
10:00 AM AchiestDragon: if not then it will reposition the foot to another point to try to gain a better footing
10:01 AM AchiestDragon: i looked at that , and came up wiht a walking exeption method that allowed time in the walking gate that could be used to check footing stabliaty
10:02 AM AchiestDragon: if stable it continued if not then it slowed the waling gate enough to allow for a reposition so as to keep the walking motion as stable as possible
10:05 AM AchiestDragon: gving it enough time to slowly come to a stop rather than just stop and stumble
10:06 AM AchiestDragon: may be a good idea to incorparate repositioning of the rest of the robot during that time in a way to allow it to dampen the inerture if its in a fast run mode
11:41 AM veverak: not a bad approach
11:42 AM veverak: :)
02:26 PM weyland|yutani is now known as BaronHarkonnen
07:54 PM rue_mohr: if you dont understand compliance your doomed
08:06 PM rue_mohr: hah, aliexpress keeps making changes to their website
08:11 PM sherlock: rue_mohr: whatd they change now
08:25 PM rue_mohr: in the feedback, there are only 2 subscales now, they dropped one of them
08:26 PM rue_mohr: if I pay $6 instead of $9 for 1000 blue leds, do you think I'll get junk?
08:37 PM robotustra: evening
08:38 PM anonnumberanon: <micmac_> there was a giant robots fight planned usa/japan
08:38 PM anonnumberanon: ace4016> it was lame
08:39 PM anonnumberanon: i guarantee you the pilots shat their pants a few times during the fights
08:39 PM ace4016: lol
08:39 PM anonnumberanon: especially when the Murata charged the american fast with it's fist and dropped it
08:39 PM anonnumberanon: owned
08:39 PM anonnumberanon: must have felt like a small car wreck for the pilots
08:39 PM ace4016: yea, that was a highlight
08:39 PM ace4016: the rest was kind of meh
08:43 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, not much done today. i did get the couplers reamed for the stepper shafts
08:45 PM robotustra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ouLX8Q9UM&t=8m49s
08:46 PM Tom_L: somebody posted that already
08:46 PM Tom_L: unless that is brand new
08:46 PM Tom_L: kinda lame imo
08:47 PM robotustra: it's the first time ever
08:47 PM robotustra: let's see how it will look like in 2-3 seasons from here
08:49 PM * robotustra music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK41JaYgyDM
08:50 PM anonnumberanon: veverak, how did you thesis submission go?
08:50 PM anonnumberanon: graded yet?
08:50 PM anonnumberanon: it's' been a week...
08:51 PM Tom_L: robotustra is that your new plate?
08:54 PM robotustra: yes
08:54 PM Tom_L: you should show the tool you're using better so we can see it
08:54 PM robotustra: I need 2 plates to level t-slotted table
08:54 PM Tom_L: or one big one
08:54 PM robotustra: it is in the video
08:55 PM Tom_L: yeah but it goes by too fast
08:56 PM Tom_L: is it tool steel or carbide/
08:56 PM Tom_L: ?
08:56 PM robotustra: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Superscraper-SS5-Super-Scraper-Carbide-Paint-Spatter-Metal-Wood-Gasket/122869537932
08:57 PM robotustra: it's carbide
08:57 PM robotustra: of something
08:57 PM robotustra: and I use small one 3/8" with rounded tip
08:57 PM ace4016: i would have thought you'd just lapped the thing
08:57 PM robotustra: I do 2 pathes with round scraper, the 1 round with flat
08:58 PM robotustra: no lapping
08:58 PM robotustra: just scraping
08:58 PM robotustra: it's within 10 micron flat
08:59 PM anonnumberanon: not bad
08:59 PM robotustra: good enough for my application
08:59 PM robotustra: now scraping the second plate
09:00 PM robotustra: Tom_L, this is a second scraper https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTOMOTIVE-TOOL-MAKER-MACHINIST-CARBIDE-SCRAPER-375/262047757351
09:01 PM robotustra: I rounded the tip on a diamond plate
09:02 PM robotustra: I got recently tungsten carbide scraper, will try it tomorrow
09:21 PM Tom_L: does round tip or flat tip work best for scraping?
09:24 PM robotustra: the best angle of the rib for flat straper is about 95 degree
09:25 PM anonnumberanon: robotustra, what plates are you scraping there?
09:25 PM robotustra: 93-98 degree works good
09:25 PM anonnumberanon: <robotustra> I need 2 plates to level t-slotted table
09:25 PM anonnumberanon: nvm
09:27 PM robotustra: Tom_L, initially it was 90 degree, but it stucks into the metal too often
09:28 PM robotustra: anonnumberanon, I need to mount this table on my mill https://imgur.com/c8zW6YQ
09:30 PM robotustra: Tom_L, one russian guy told on youtube about 93-95 degree
09:30 PM robotustra: of sharpening
09:33 PM anonnumberanon: robotustra, okay cool
09:33 PM anonnumberanon: how do you mount the 2 plates to the machine
09:34 PM anonnumberanon: the machine must also have a very smooth surface then
09:35 PM anonnumberanon: also, specs on that plate?
09:44 PM robotustra: anonnumberanon, https://www.ebay.com/itm/T-Slot-plate-16-x-12-100-cast-aluminium/182753332690
09:45 PM rue_bed: if you bring your hand more than 2cm near it, the heat will warp it out of spec
09:46 PM rue_bed: illumination light must fall evenly on all 6 sides
09:46 PM robotustra: I'll screw these steel plates below, after I'll scrape them at the same time on the surface plate with the measuring oh height
09:46 PM rue_bed: you cant mount it, any object touching it will throw of its chee
09:46 PM robotustra: rue_bed, why do you think I'm doing these steel plates?
09:47 PM rue_bed: ITS ALL ABOUT BEING WITHIN 1 ANGSTROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:47 PM robotustra: no
09:47 PM rue_bed: any less precision is garbage, just useless garbage
09:47 PM robotustra: within 10 micron
09:47 PM rue_bed: ANGSTROM
09:48 PM rue_bed: :)
09:48 PM robotustra: 1 angstrom == 10^(-10)m
09:48 PM rue_bed: I know
09:48 PM robotustra: I'm within 0.01mm
09:48 PM rue_bed: I know
09:48 PM rue_bed: I'm just reflecting anonnumberanons oppinion
09:49 PM robotustra: if my parts will be within 0.02mm - I'll be more than happy
09:49 PM rue_bed: the backlash on my cnc is .17mm
09:49 PM rue_bed: standard 5/16 theaded rod
09:49 PM robotustra: awful
09:49 PM rue_bed: hdpe nuts
09:49 PM robotustra: how do you live with that :)
09:49 PM rue_bed: over 500 hours runtime
09:49 PM robotustra: replace it
09:50 PM robotustra: put the spring finally
09:50 PM rue_bed: no, no backwads, forwards
09:50 PM rue_bed: new machine
09:50 PM rue_bed: tightening it up anymore causes too much drive friction, I need ballscrews
09:51 PM robotustra: for me it's easier to upgrade than to build new cnc mill
09:51 PM rue_bed: so I'm building a new machine
09:51 PM rue_bed: I'd rather just keep building new ones
09:51 PM rue_bed: better and better
09:51 PM robotustra: I'm planning to install mist cooling on it and mill steel
09:51 PM rue_bed: k
09:52 PM rue_bed: gonna recycle the coolant?
09:52 PM robotustra: and now I'm thinking how to make borders and drain coolant, yes
09:52 PM rue_bed: that was my next q, are you planning on catching it at the table or below
09:53 PM robotustra: below
09:53 PM anonnumberanon: rue_bed> if you bring your hand more than 2cm near it, the heat will warp it out of spec
09:53 PM rue_bed: what are you gonna use to shield the rails/drive?
09:53 PM anonnumberanon: are u jokidding?
09:53 PM rue_bed: anonnumberanon, ONE ANGSTROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:53 PM robotustra: yes, he is joking
09:54 PM rue_bed: OOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGSSSSSSSSSSTRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
09:54 PM robotustra: but this plate is soft across the table because of t-slots
09:54 PM rue_bed: any less is garbage
09:54 PM anonnumberanon: <rue_bed> I'm just reflecting anonnumberanons oppinion
09:54 PM rue_bed: OOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGSSSSSSSSSSTRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
09:54 PM anonnumberanon: you can't mate an extremely accurate part to a piss poor part, the accuracy of the whole will become piss poor
09:54 PM robotustra: but if I make good foundation - it will keep the flatnes +-
09:56 PM rue_bed: anonnumberanon, just wants to make sure that when he mills two faces, if they touch, they WILL NOT come apart, ever again
09:56 PM anonnumberanon: please stop saying angstrom that is a stupid sounding word and therefore i ban it right now
09:56 PM anonnumberanon: no more angstroms
09:56 PM rue_bed: any less is just garbage
09:57 PM rue_bed: GARBAGE
09:57 PM anonnumberanon: robotustra, for my dimensions of plate it would be slightly smaller, it would be the 2020 but that's still like 2 times more money than i want to spend on a plate
09:57 PM rue_bed: laser guided edm machined
09:58 PM anonnumberanon: robotustra's comment on your backlash made me lol though
09:58 PM anonnumberanon: so have you built your spindle yet? you're slacking
09:58 PM anonnumberanon: M8
09:58 PM rue_bed: I'm trying to think where to get a peice of bar large enough
09:59 PM robotustra: I have 1/2-10 ACME screw on my cnc mill
09:59 PM rue_bed: I suppose it should be on taper bearings
09:59 PM rue_bed: AAAND I'll need a housing block for it
10:00 PM rue_bed: :/ the peice of 3/4" plate I have it a cuttting blade, and yea, its hardened
10:00 PM rue_bed: THAT was an unwelcome surprise when I was making moms christmas present and needed to DRILL A HOLE in it
10:00 PM rue_bed: had to make special bits!
10:00 PM robotustra: it's not, but I have 2 bearings from each side of screw and they are preloaded
10:01 PM rue_bed: }:-|
10:01 PM robotustra: tightened a little bit
10:01 PM robotustra: stretched
10:01 PM rue_bed: my second cnc uses stretch preload on the threaded rod
10:02 PM rue_bed: oh shredder oil is REALLY good machining oil
10:03 PM rue_bed: pricey tho
10:03 PM * Tom_L replaces angstrom with 'hair on a gnat's ass'
10:03 PM rue_bed: waaay to big
10:04 PM rue_bed: so, I wont get the other one of those blades
10:04 PM Tom_L: robotustra i figured a straight blade wouldn't work too well
10:04 PM rue_bed: (mower blade for roadside bush)
10:04 PM robotustra: btw I measured my hire and it's ~ 0.05mm
10:04 PM rue_bed: backlash?
10:05 PM anonnumberanon: robotustra, have you looked at flood coolant? if so what made you choose between mist and flood?
10:05 PM Tom_L: rue_bed, you should stop badgering them. at least they are 'doing'
10:05 PM rue_bed: anonnumberanon, you cant underestimate the mess
10:05 PM robotustra: a hire from my head
10:05 PM rue_bed: I know, I know
10:05 PM robotustra: I don't have any backlash
10:05 PM Tom_L: too many here aren't
10:06 PM Tom_L: so if some like precision i'm all for it. i know what i need and what i have to get there
10:06 PM Tom_L: i don't expect you to do the same work i do either
10:06 PM rue_bed: robotustra, G00 X0 clear dial indicator, G00 X1, clear dial indicator, G00 X2, G00 X1 get dial indictor reading
10:07 PM robotustra: anonnumberanon, 1) I'll not do heavy milling on steel, so, and I did it already with manual "misting" , it was working ok
10:07 PM anonnumberanon: rue_bed, yeah sure, it takes the operator a little cleaning up of the chips with a brush all throughout the cut, it's really messy
10:07 PM robotustra: I'll do indicator test on weekend
10:07 PM rue_bed: sure sure, whatever
10:07 PM robotustra: but not promice anything
10:07 PM anonnumberanon: but the lubrication is out of this world
10:07 PM rue_bed: I'm at .17mm, thats what you need to beat
10:07 PM rue_bed: LOW BAR
10:08 PM robotustra: because there are too many holidays on this weekend
10:08 PM anonnumberanon: that's how this dude achieved 10 microns with a chinese engraver with makita spindle and better bearings
10:08 PM anonnumberanon: he has a pretty neat flood coolant system on there
10:08 PM robotustra: rue_bed, I can already tell you that it's < 0.02 mm
10:08 PM Tom_L: what parts do you plan to make that require that sort of precision?
10:08 PM anonnumberanon: says because it's in his living room he cant afford to be misting, and i understand
10:08 PM rue_bed: :) I cant wait to hear
10:08 PM robotustra: because I did measure parts after milling
10:09 PM Tom_L: i dialed in my old worn out lathe close enough that the last word indicator on the spindle didn't move AT ALL
10:09 PM robotustra: and it's more because of gantry bending rather than backlash
10:09 PM Tom_L: when i did my couplers tonight
10:09 PM rue_bed: ooo
10:09 PM Tom_L: i had to check it to make sure it was touching the coupler
10:09 PM rue_bed: Tom_L, yesterday I selected a spindle motor I'd like to use :(
10:09 PM rue_bed: :)
10:10 PM anonnumberanon: spit it out you have nothing to hide
10:10 PM rue_bed: I have a set of bearings from that medical machine
10:10 PM rue_bed: linear
10:11 PM robotustra: anonnumberanon, I can pour coolant, but I also want a chips blowing
10:11 PM robotustra: that's why I selected mist
10:11 PM rue_bed: I use a puffer, want a video?
10:11 PM Tom_L: i'll probably rig up mist coolant on mine
10:11 PM rue_bed: no? ok
10:11 PM Tom_L: since it won't be fully enclosed
10:11 PM robotustra: rue_bed, what complessor do you use?
10:11 PM * rue_bed lies in bed
10:12 PM rue_bed: oh, I could take a pic of the compressor
10:12 PM rue_bed: wait, I have one
10:12 PM robotustra: I'm thinking to use deep fish tank compressor
10:12 PM robotustra: don't know if it will work
10:13 PM rue_mohr: its a devillibis compressor that I added cooling and unloading to
10:13 PM anonnumberanon: rue_bed, it's okay if you're choosing the Makita RT0701C 1-1/4 HP Compact Router you know, nobody will think you are less of a man/robot for it
10:13 PM rue_mohr: and gave it a midsize tank
10:14 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Z_Axis_Pulley.jpg
10:14 PM Tom_L: you can see the worn out junk i work with
10:14 PM robotustra: Tom_L, looks nice
10:14 PM Tom_L: i did that last night, i did the couplers tonight
10:15 PM Tom_L: not much time to play last couple days
10:15 PM robotustra: I just ordered mine pulleys yesterday
10:15 PM Tom_L: gott run an errand. back in 20 min
10:16 PM Tom_L: robotustra what ratio?
10:17 PM robotustra: HDT 5mm pitch, Z=18, 36, 72
10:18 PM robotustra: I'll do 2 stages, 1:2 and 1:4
10:18 PM robotustra: total 8 times
10:18 PM robotustra: because I have 24000 rpm spindle
10:19 PM robotustra: 24000 : 8 = 6000 rpm on spindle
10:19 PM robotustra: but tha chuck can afford 3600 rpm only
10:21 PM robotustra: err
10:21 PM robotustra: 24000 : 8 = 3000 rpm on spindle
10:21 PM robotustra: ok
10:21 PM robotustra: 3000 rpm max
10:21 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/compressor.jpg
10:22 PM rue_mohr: thats the best overview I can find right now
10:22 PM robotustra: or I can do direct drive from motor to spindle with 1:4 ratio
10:22 PM rue_mohr: direct drive != 1:4
10:23 PM rue_mohr: direct drive = 1:1
10:23 PM robotustra: not direct, but direct transmition, bypassing the second shaft
10:23 PM rue_mohr: 1 stage reduction
10:24 PM rue_mohr: I have a nice big 2 cyl 240V compressor, but dont ahve pwoer to hook it up
10:25 PM robotustra: the idea is stolen from here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AMC48VMjcQ&t=42s
10:26 PM robotustra: yeah 1 stage reduction 1:4 or 2 stages reduction: 1:2 and 1:4
10:33 PM robotustra: this Simpsons36 has real direct drive because the pulleys ratio is 1:1
10:50 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, mine's sitting on top of an 80 gal tank
10:50 PM Tom_L: 2 stage
11:28 PM rue_shop3: 80 is insane
11:39 PM rue_shop3: /me makes things
11:42 PM rue_shop3: !~?
11:42 PM rue_shop3: cant type[