#robotics Logs
Dec 14 2017
#robotics Calendar
03:35 AM micmac_: hi
08:04 AM logicmoo is now known as dmiles
09:59 AM Rez is now known as L
11:17 AM anonnumberanon: key
01:44 PM emeraldgreen is now known as kirka
04:24 PM -!- #robotics mode set to +o by card.freenode.net
04:32 PM -!- #robotics mode set to +o by card.freenode.net
07:37 PM Tom_L: ok, not much done tonight
07:37 PM Tom_L: i made a collet to hold the ballscrew so when i cut it i can turn the end back on the shorter piece
07:38 PM Tom_L: sry anonnumberanon, no pics
07:54 PM anonnumberanon: WWHHAATT??
07:55 PM * anonnumberanon is looking at rails and rail bearings (supported rods vs square rails, and sizes of square rails)
07:56 PM rue_mohr: todayt eh wire fell off the cooling fan on my new amachine, that caused the motor to warm up and the cooling cowling to slip off and jam the spindle motor, which then ofcrouse cause the bit to get broken off in the material
07:56 PM anonnumberanon: Tom_L, I'm building a 300 by 300 by 80
07:56 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, can I save you from spending a ****load of money on things that will turn out to be useless if you ever get to know what your doing?
07:56 PM anonnumberanon: i mean, by 8 inches
07:57 PM rue_mohr: no thats a no
07:57 PM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, i have money and i dont have time
07:57 PM anonnumberanon: :)
07:57 PM rue_mohr: people in that situation have to buy finished machines
07:58 PM rue_mohr: and they aren't the people who need those machines
07:58 PM * rue_mohr scurries to put on a parachute and jump out the nearest exit
07:58 PM * anonnumberanon leaves unclipped grenade in said parachute
07:59 PM rue_mohr: do you even have a stepper motor and a driver for it yet?
08:00 PM rue_mohr: thats a no rue
08:00 PM anonnumberanon: no man I'm starting by learning about drill tap and cut various metals correctly
08:00 PM anonnumberanon: you can check my plan in the open-source format file that I shared ;)
08:01 PM anonnumberanon: that file is growing fast by the way
08:01 PM anonnumberanon: i need to compile my metal fab learning file with my cnc machine BOM file
08:01 PM anonnumberanon: soon I'll have cad for 3 different designs as well
08:04 PM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, you really just can't save money on good rails and good lead screws
08:04 PM anonnumberanon: (ball screws)
08:04 PM anonnumberanon: fact of life
08:13 PM * anonnumberanon hears rue_mohr install LibreOffice
08:24 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, so, how we gonna set you up with the $10000 toolchain you need to USE a cnc machine?
08:24 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, did you see my machine?
08:25 PM rue_mohr: I should cnc you something and mail it down
08:25 PM rue_mohr: you can design it and, OOOH right you cant create files for nc machines yet
08:25 PM anonnumberanon: that would be nice :)
08:25 PM rue_mohr: lets try this
08:25 PM rue_mohr: wanna try installing bamcam under wine?
08:26 PM anonnumberanon: sure i can, fusion 360 makes g-code, run it through mach 3, done
08:26 PM anonnumberanon: if feeling ballsy, use linuxcnc even
08:26 PM rue_mohr: maybe you dont udnerstand that linuxcnc and mach3 are worse than grbl...
08:27 PM rue_mohr: http://www.cambam.co.uk/downloads/CamBamPlus-0.9.8P.msi
08:27 PM rue_mohr: you installed librecad right?
08:27 PM anonnumberanon: no im not doing software now i want to build the machine
08:27 PM anonnumberanon: software, motors, all that stuff's easy
08:27 PM rue_mohr: your gonna have a useless machine
08:27 PM rue_mohr: you need to know how to make stuff
08:28 PM rue_mohr: you dont even have a pendant, what ya gonna do if you have a machine?
08:28 PM rue_mohr: see how this is like a house roof with a foundation and NO WALLS?
08:28 PM anonnumberanon: what? what even is that
08:28 PM anonnumberanon: it's not even in Google
08:28 PM rue_mohr: librecad?
08:28 PM anonnumberanon: pendant
08:28 PM rue_mohr: apt-get install librecad
08:29 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1090485.jpg
08:29 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, do you know how to set up a job on a cnc machine?
08:30 PM rue_mohr: NO
08:30 PM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, do you communicate 2 ways or just talk?
08:30 PM rue_mohr: you can see the pendant tom uses in the background of those early images
08:30 PM rue_mohr: I'm self sufficient, all I need is motivation
08:31 PM anonnumberanon: ok
08:31 PM rue_mohr: I dont motivate you enough?
08:31 PM rue_mohr: no
08:31 PM anonnumberanon: grab the nearest hobby servo you got
08:31 PM anonnumberanon: do it
08:31 PM rue_mohr: wtf, why isn't there one on my desk?
08:31 PM anonnumberanon: can't be those sg tiny little blue horrors
08:32 PM anonnumberanon: must be a black one, at least 5 centimeters
08:32 PM rue_mohr: uno, uno, servoshield, ugh...
08:32 PM anonnumberanon: got it?
08:32 PM durrf: i was about to say i dont have any either but then i saw a box full of them
08:32 PM L is now known as LoRez
08:32 PM anonnumberanon: durrf, stay out of this for the momenbt
08:32 PM anonnumberanon: we got something going here
08:32 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, I dont keep that stuff in th house, I can go get one
08:32 PM anonnumberanon: yes get one, and some strong, very small philips screwdrivers
08:32 PM rue_mohr: ok, what are we doing with this?
08:32 PM anonnumberanon: one, at least, also a small blade
08:33 PM anonnumberanon: Just DO IT
08:33 PM rue_mohr: hah, I dont want to mod this for continious, these are pricey
08:33 PM anonnumberanon: we're gonna have you take it apart completely
08:33 PM rue_mohr: pay like $5 for these
08:33 PM anonnumberanon: so get a broken one, shouldnt be hard with these, they always break
08:33 PM rue_mohr: I done that, should I ask where your going ?
08:34 PM rue_mohr: no I dont break them
08:34 PM anonnumberanon: lol
08:34 PM anonnumberanon: i break them by just staring too hard at them
08:34 PM anonnumberanon: ok so do you have one you take take apart fully?
08:34 PM rue_mohr: ok, do you want to design metal parts for them now?
08:34 PM rue_mohr: These come out of special budget, I'd like to know what you have in mind...
08:35 PM rue_mohr: S3003
08:35 PM rue_mohr: do you want to make one, I have some I made
08:35 PM anonnumberanon: yeah that's a good one
08:36 PM anonnumberanon: take it apart, measure the bottom case, and the gear case (gear box), must be very accurate, then CAD that shit, then send it through your CNC, remove parts from plate when done then ask me for my address
08:36 PM anonnumberanon: I'll wait
08:36 PM rue_mohr: hah
08:37 PM rue_mohr: your projecvt not mine!
08:37 PM anonnumberanon: oh, forgot, put in envelope, close envelope and ship it
08:37 PM anonnumberanon: well you said you could send me something to show me your cnc, that's the type of stuff i expect my cnc to do so there
08:37 PM rue_mohr: you just want metal case servos?
08:38 PM rue_mohr: hmm
08:38 PM rue_mohr: IF I was going to try to make a micro servo, which I dont see the point in cause their just silly,
08:38 PM anonnumberanon: among other things but so far that will be the part with the hardest tolerances to achieve, as long as thin walls, good roundness, etc
08:38 PM rue_mohr: and I was making the case from metal, which I would do casue its too heavy
08:39 PM rue_mohr: then I'd use metal gears
08:39 PM rue_mohr: how about I use the cnc to make a descent sized servo gearbox
08:39 PM anonnumberanon: nobody wants them
08:40 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/mech/gearbox/gearbox.html
08:40 PM anonnumberanon: this has to make money to pay for machines and projects
08:40 PM rue_mohr: your right, I can sell metal servo cases for $500 ea
08:40 PM rue_mohr: no guts!
08:40 PM anonnumberanon: $10 and a foolproof guide on how to transfer the guts of the mg995 into it and people would buy it
08:41 PM rue_mohr: hah you cant make them for $10
08:41 PM anonnumberanon: mg995==$5 , decent motor and metal gears
08:41 PM rue_mohr: $5? MG?!
08:41 PM anonnumberanon: they are all over my robot, yes
08:42 PM anonnumberanon: the foot one broke because of the plastic case
08:42 PM rue_mohr: oooh, thats why your breaking them, no compliance
08:42 PM anonnumberanon: probably one of the gear housings in the top of the servo
08:42 PM anonnumberanon: i broke just one
08:42 PM rue_mohr: making a metal case will just cause bent shafts and spun gears
08:43 PM rue_mohr: you need to make your robot compliant, do a drop test, if you can drop it and it dosn't break someting, its got sufficient compliance
08:43 PM rue_mohr: (a reasonable drop)
08:43 PM anonnumberanon: I'm not interested in accomplishing 50 years ahead technology.
08:44 PM rue_mohr: when was the fuse invented?
08:44 PM anonnumberanon: YOU CANT MAKE COMPLIANT SERVOS PEOPLE WILL BUY FOR THEIR ROBOTS THEY'RE ALREADY SPENDING 2K ON A FREAKING FIGHTING ROBOT
08:45 PM rue_mohr: its a great university approach, stiffer, stronger, harder! but its not the answer
08:45 PM anonnumberanon: THE COMpliance is in software
08:45 PM rue_mohr: but I dont want to make strong servos and people call them sh** cause they broke them
08:45 PM rue_mohr: my 12' mecha
08:45 PM anonnumberanon: we have thousands of people and students using them, stop trying to be so special
08:45 PM rue_mohr: you do KNOW why I'm using airmuscles?
08:46 PM * rue_mohr freezes the 12' mecha into s stance and pushes it over
08:46 PM anonnumberanon: they don't count, they're not even mounted on your robot, your robot is not finished
08:46 PM rue_mohr: granted
08:47 PM anonnumberanon: it sounds like the rockets that can reach mars and let us live there, be like Elon Musk, if you're gonna talk about it, MAKE IT HAPPEN
08:48 PM rue_mohr: did you see the muscles servo demo?
08:48 PM anonnumberanon: anyway, let's start by conquering the cheap robot servo market
08:48 PM anonnumberanon: yes rue_mohr i seen it
08:48 PM anonnumberanon: it's not ready
08:48 PM anonnumberanon: let's move on
08:48 PM rue_mohr: I have the doubleacting version made
08:48 PM anonnumberanon: until i see it on an arm i don't want to hear about it
08:49 PM rue_mohr: and a set of pressure sensors
08:49 PM anonnumberanon: notice how I'm being reasonable, just an arm
08:49 PM rue_mohr: I need to get better at cable driven axies
08:49 PM anonnumberanon: but yeah for now, ship me a metal servo case
08:49 PM rue_mohr: arm... 5? was supposed to be airmuscle
08:50 PM rue_mohr: well I have lots of crap billet
08:50 PM anonnumberanon: perfect
08:50 PM rue_mohr: but no, billet machine a servo case is another stupid university approach
08:50 PM rue_mohr: rue
08:50 PM rue_mohr: yea?
08:50 PM rue_mohr: seperate it into a tube and a cap
08:51 PM anonnumberanon: at most you'll need 3/4" thick, that's for the center case
08:51 PM rue_mohr: fold the tube maybe?
08:51 PM rue_mohr: I think so
08:51 PM anonnumberanon: then there's the bottom case which is 7mm deep
08:51 PM anonnumberanon: and simple
08:51 PM anonnumberanon: and then the top case
08:51 PM rue_mohr: the end cap is just got a few holes in the bottom side ya?
08:51 PM rue_mohr: you could take apart a servo
08:51 PM rue_mohr: dont want to mess up the 3003s
08:52 PM anonnumberanon: which is about 12mm deep, and sophisticated in design so you will probably fail that
08:52 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, no, the body is just a tube
08:52 PM rue_mohr: billetted mill for that is just dumb
08:52 PM anonnumberanon: yes, that's the easy part
08:52 PM rue_mohr: like making a tree into a toothpick
08:53 PM rue_mohr: I bet
08:53 PM rue_mohr: yes?
08:53 PM rue_mohr: I bet if you found the right dia pipe we could press it into a rectangular form
08:53 PM * anonnumberanon has a badass aluminum servo in hand, goes to get an mg995 to check if it's kind of the same design for cases
08:54 PM rue_mohr: I'd rather just keep working on the force feedback thing
08:54 PM rue_mohr: oh we got the fets today
08:54 PM rue_mohr: ah! we did
08:54 PM rue_mohr: ON the piezo eh?
08:54 PM anonnumberanon: yeah ok the plastic case servo is the same configuration, 3 cases
08:55 PM rue_mohr: how about I make ya that stupid endcap :)
08:55 PM rue_mohr: you should see all these things I made for kat
08:55 PM rue_mohr: and she went insane and never had me send them
08:55 PM anonnumberanon: who is kat
08:56 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, you need to know how to design parts
08:56 PM rue_mohr: did you install librecad?
08:56 PM rue_mohr: its a good program, with whats becomming the WORST interface in the world
08:56 PM rue_mohr: every version of the interface makes it worse
08:58 PM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, look at this center case and tell me how you were wrong just earlier
08:58 PM anonnumberanon: https://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/horizonhobby/JRPSC8711_a0?wid=1400&hei=778
08:59 PM sherlock: coolio, my outdoor tap has a hose frozen on it
08:59 PM anonnumberanon: so i don't know how i found this but here is a good example of what your final piece should look like http://www.davesmotors.com/core/media/media.nl?id=12732&c=885035&h=f164317092b833d19093
09:00 PM sherlock: wonder if that pipe is burst now
09:00 PM anonnumberanon: sorry durrf lol
09:00 PM anonnumberanon: so you got servos durrf ?
09:01 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, has a point tho
09:01 PM rue_mohr: ?
09:01 PM rue_mohr: for all those arms, we should make an air muscle one
09:01 PM rue_mohr: same design, just more printed and air muscle?
09:01 PM rue_mohr: well ya
09:02 PM rue_mohr: it can just be a tube
09:03 PM rue_mohr: so rue?
09:03 PM rue_mohr: sounds like a good project for the newyear
09:03 PM rue_mohr: hahah
09:03 PM rue_mohr: what
09:03 PM rue_mohr: you got like 20 days to make that bent pipe
09:03 PM rue_mohr: :( oh damn
09:03 PM rue_mohr: hahahah
09:04 PM rue_mohr: your sure there isn't a justification I can make for not being done yet?
09:04 PM rue_mohr: 3 extended deallines dude
09:04 PM rue_mohr: deadlines yea
09:05 PM rue_mohr: back to arm, I'm playing with pid...
09:05 PM rue_mohr: yea, but the stuff is so nonlinear that your better off with whwere you were at in th other demo, with the lookup table
09:09 PM rue_mohr: I think the hobby servo thing is silly
09:09 PM rue_mohr: your right
09:10 PM rue_mohr: their good for cheap gearboxes
09:10 PM rue_mohr: again, your right
09:10 PM anonnumberanon: the difficulty scares you
09:10 PM anonnumberanon: you know you won't be able to do this
09:11 PM anonnumberanon: fear is installing negative thoughts into your brain
09:14 PM rue_mohr: no, I just am too quick to put my time into other peopels projects and problems, esp when they dont really care
09:15 PM rue_mohr: I only find out they dont care after the bllood/sweat
09:15 PM rue_mohr: mayb ica n ship you Kats project
09:15 PM rue_mohr: its related to a 35 tonn sheet metal former, thats about all I know
09:16 PM anonnumberanon: how do you not know about it if you're ready to ship it?
09:17 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, so far, your more interested in your project than most people
09:17 PM rue_mohr: but most of the tendrills your putting out are dead ends
09:17 PM rue_mohr: too far forward, with no foundation
09:18 PM rue_mohr: less foundation than I thought
09:18 PM rue_mohr: I'm trying to help you grow a fire, but your in too much of a hurry, your gonna just pour diesel all over it, and when it completely finishes going out, you will give up
09:19 PM rue_mohr: and the direction your going, you will have blown a lot of money in the process
09:19 PM rue_mohr: people dont just build cnc machines, people who build things like cnc machines build cnc machines
09:20 PM rue_mohr: furthermore people who do digitla design design things for cnc machines
09:20 PM rue_mohr: if you even know how to design a part for a 3d printer, which is WAY less involved, then you have a good start for cnc machines
09:20 PM rue_mohr: or if you have ever used a milling machine
09:20 PM rue_mohr: yea or that too
09:21 PM rue_mohr: he dosn't see it
09:21 PM rue_mohr: why am I still trying?
09:21 PM rue_mohr: you dont like to give up
09:21 PM rue_mohr: never have
09:21 PM rue_mohr: you making supper, right?
09:22 PM rue_mohr: well I made rice
09:22 PM rue_mohr: cool
09:22 PM rue_mohr: 97 things under way from aliexpress
09:22 PM rue_mohr: that IS insane
09:23 PM rue_mohr: I think your first cnc was more of a printer
09:23 PM rue_mohr: that would make sense, I was playing with lots of printer stuff
09:24 PM anonnumberanon: I'm special force bro.
09:24 PM anonnumberanon: I never fail.
09:27 PM anonnumberanon: And tonight we've established your machine is not precise enough to make a servo case. Otherwise you'd just take a few measurements and CNC real quick. It's an easy job for a good machine.
09:28 PM rue_mohr: that I'm not interested in putting the time into your project to design a servo endcap so it can spend the rest of its existance on a shelf
09:28 PM rue_mohr: I can do a test job if you want
09:28 PM rue_mohr: but I'm not sold that you ever know what precision you need
09:29 PM anonnumberanon: for a servo case?
09:29 PM anonnumberanon: it really depends on the application, the project
09:29 PM rue_mohr: hah SOMEONE just remixed the 80mm fangrill again
09:30 PM anonnumberanon: the more precise the hardware the least amount of fixing you must do in software
09:30 PM anonnumberanon: when you're controlling 17 servos to keep your robot from falling with highly complex frameworks of PIDs and filters, you want your hardware to be precise
09:31 PM anonnumberanon: that's why I'm not following you too much on your compliance ideal
09:31 PM anonnumberanon: it's kinda like a CNC amusingly enough, can't be compliant, at all
09:31 PM anonnumberanon: although that's a different story
09:31 PM rue_mohr: cnc deals with a controlled environment
09:33 PM anonnumberanon: also the compliance in my next robot (the kit i have is pretty noob, not good for fighting, just for learning, barely good enough to walk) will be with springs and geometry of the body structure
09:33 PM anonnumberanon: it will be fully custom built, no more ordering body parts
09:33 PM anonnumberanon: it will also have less servos for the legs
09:33 PM anonnumberanon: and the knees will be replaced
09:34 PM anonnumberanon: with a more springy system that puts less load on servos
09:34 PM kirka: high end robots are compliant
09:34 PM kirka: though there are two classes of high end
09:34 PM kirka: another is super rigid
09:34 PM kirka: series elastic actuation
09:35 PM anonnumberanon: if we're talking numbers though, we need accurate tolerances for the servo case build
09:35 PM orlock: wtf
09:35 PM orlock: high end robots are compliant, except for the ones that are not?
09:35 PM anonnumberanon: lol
09:36 PM * anonnumberanon hears rue_mohr shelfing the plastic servo
09:36 PM rue_mohr: to put it in perspective,
09:37 PM rue_mohr: those people who are making hand guns with 3d printers
09:37 PM rue_mohr: DO NOT NEED the printers to do it
09:37 PM rue_mohr: their making those guns anyhow
09:38 PM rue_mohr: your cardboard work shows you need a little more work on building things before you put togethor a cnc with 1 thou tolerance
09:38 PM rue_mohr: orlock, thats what kirka said
09:39 PM rue_mohr: I therefore declare that all my robots are high end
09:39 PM rue_mohr: :)
09:39 PM kirka: https://www.amarsi-project.eu/coman <-- compliant one
09:40 PM kirka: https://biomimetics.mit.edu/high-speed-trot-running-implementation-hierarchical-controller-using-proprioceptive-impedance <-- compliant one
09:40 PM kirka: Rethink robotics' baxter <-- compliant one
09:41 PM kirka: https://www.bostondynamics.com/atlas <-- rigid one
09:42 PM kirka: I'm just saying that there is a mathematically hard approach of building compliant robots and using their dynamics to benefit the task
09:42 PM anonnumberanon: anyway rue_mohr what's the story with kat?
09:42 PM kirka: but it is hard and that's why most teams do rigid
09:43 PM anonnumberanon: is that a girl who asked you to do something and you did it cause she was a girl and that's your weak point but then she disappeared and it broke your heart?
09:43 PM rue_mohr: lots of kids toys did conformance with a slip-clutch
09:45 PM rue_mohr: compliance just means that your drive slips or backdrives before your system breaks
09:46 PM rue_mohr: so you can do compiance with low-ratio reversable gearboxes, provided the motor dosn't have enough torque to snap the geartrain beofre it backdrives
09:46 PM rue_mohr: kinda 2 catagories, impact and overload
09:47 PM rue_mohr: overload can be dealt with via software easy enough, motor current sense
09:47 PM rue_mohr: impact cant be dealt with by software or electronics, needs to be a mechanical provision
09:48 PM rue_mohr: kneepads = compiance
09:48 PM rue_mohr: again, thats why I'm using air muscles
09:50 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, part of the reason I dont have the 12' mecha built yet is because I'm not yet 'the guy'
09:50 PM rue_mohr: I'm still building 'the guy' who makes a 12' mecha
09:51 PM kirka: I don't aim for mecha btw, I'm planning to build an inverted-pendulum-two-big-wheels-torso-two-servo-arms-head-with-webcam
09:51 PM rue_mohr: its why most of my projects are todo with motion control and force control/feedback
09:51 PM rue_mohr: nice
09:51 PM rue_mohr: have you made one of the little ones?
09:51 PM kirka: I have made a hexapod
09:51 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, made one with a 'tail'
09:51 PM kirka: legs are a bit disappointing
09:51 PM kirka: now I have a working 3d-printer, it will be easier
09:52 PM kirka: Also I thought a lot about lipo battery and balance circuits and chargers, I want to do auto-charging via a dock
09:52 PM rue_mohr: tI'v made 2 3d printers and a cnc int eh last 2 years
09:52 PM rue_mohr: I have another cnc in the queue
09:53 PM rue_mohr: and atleast 1 more printer for paste/goo
09:54 PM anonnumberanon: look
09:55 PM anonnumberanon: LOOK
09:55 PM anonnumberanon: http://www.davesmotors.com/lauterbacher-billet-servo-case-50723_50725-for-multiplex-rhino-digi-4_hitec-hs-5765mh-servo.html
09:55 PM rue_mohr: ah $100
09:55 PM rue_mohr: I realize your certian that if you make it more ridgid your problem will be solved
09:56 PM anonnumberanon: I don't have a proble right now i don't know what you're referring to. I'm having fun.
09:56 PM * rue_mohr sits back and reads another chapter of "less is more"
09:56 PM anonnumberanon: I have the shittiest servos possible right now on my robot and instead of buying real ones, I want to make real ones.
09:56 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, yes, never let the fun stop
09:56 PM rue_mohr: k
09:56 PM rue_mohr: did you install librecad?
09:57 PM anonnumberanon: i don't care about that
09:57 PM anonnumberanon: ill use fusion 360
09:57 PM rue_mohr: click on the sideways line on the top left
09:57 PM rue_mohr: ok
09:57 PM kirka: rue_mohr how is it with CNC, does it mill Al ?
09:57 PM rue_mohr: show me a cylinder in fusion360
09:57 PM rue_mohr: kirka, yes
09:57 PM rue_mohr: be it slowly
09:57 PM kirka: anonnumberanon people like dynamixel servos
09:58 PM anonnumberanon: kirka, yes, believe me, i know :)
09:58 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/slide.htm
09:58 PM rue_mohr: kirka, ^
09:58 PM kirka: anonnumberanon I wanted to make my own brushless servos too but I failed at finding source (or process for making) of metal gears
09:58 PM anonnumberanon: kirka, not in my budget
09:58 PM anonnumberanon: kirka, im actually looking into that right now
09:59 PM anonnumberanon: trying to decide whether buy them from China or make them myself
09:59 PM anonnumberanon: meaning more tooling up
09:59 PM kirka: rue_mohr cool, these plastic-steel linear guides really work?
09:59 PM anonnumberanon: archivist is a pro at this I'm squeezing his brain about it right now
09:59 PM kirka: anonnumberanon on gears?
09:59 PM anonnumberanon: he can make them
09:59 PM anonnumberanon: i may even buy them from him if it turns out it's same price as China
09:59 PM rue_mohr: kirka, I usually wouln't even consider 3d printed sliders
10:00 PM anonnumberanon: kirka, yes, the metal gears
10:00 PM rue_mohr: but when I was looking at the chinese machines, I noticed (zooming into them all) to my (horror?) that they were ALL made with 3d printed parts
10:00 PM rue_mohr: so, I thought what the hell, and went for it
10:00 PM rue_mohr: and , I'll be damned
10:00 PM rue_mohr: it works
10:00 PM kirka: anonnumberanon you could do thw world a favor and push your servo design to github
10:01 PM anonnumberanon: her rue_mohr https://imgur.com/a/idR1f
10:01 PM anonnumberanon: your cylinder
10:01 PM anonnumberanon: don
10:01 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1080818.jpg those are stepper motors from the sheet feeders on big copiers like the one you couldn't get home
10:02 PM anonnumberanon: t ask me anything else though i haven't trained at the software yet
10:02 PM rue_mohr: hah! good!
10:02 PM rue_mohr: send it to me as an STL
10:02 PM rue_mohr: but smaller
10:02 PM rue_mohr: maybe make it 10mmx 10mm
10:03 PM rue_mohr: rue you proposing to change the abs out of the printer?
10:03 PM rue_mohr: you need to put a heated bed on it
10:04 PM rue_mohr: that test print kinda worked
10:04 PM rue_mohr: you wanna play more with it you can
10:04 PM anonnumberanon: it doesn't export stl unless you learn how by watching the 5 minute tutorial
10:04 PM rue_mohr: oh
10:05 PM rue_mohr: another night then?
10:05 PM anonnumberanon: sure, I'll be making CADs with it when I go on vacation
10:05 PM rue_mohr: k
10:06 PM anonnumberanon: kirka, where are you on your design so far?
10:07 PM kirka: anonnumberanon of my robot?
10:07 PM kirka: or of my servo
10:07 PM anonnumberanon: yeah
10:07 PM anonnumberanon: you're making a servo too?
10:08 PM kirka: I'm going to model manipulator in solidworks
10:08 PM kirka: and print prototype
10:08 PM kirka: servos will be corona 939mg
10:08 PM kirka: anonnumberanon I wanted to make a servo but I got stuck with gears
10:09 PM anonnumberanon: wait your robot will be smaller right?
10:09 PM anonnumberanon: cause this servo is pretty light-duty
10:09 PM anonnumberanon: kirka, im trying to source really cheap and very good dc motors too
10:09 PM anonnumberanon: they gotta be coreless if possible
10:10 PM kirka: anonnumberanon why not go with brushless
10:10 PM kirka: At least for mg995-sized servos
10:10 PM anonnumberanon: more torque
10:10 PM kirka: anonnumberanon I plant 30-40 cm height
10:10 PM anonnumberanon: possibly less current use
10:12 PM anonnumberanon: the docking to charge will be very very nice when you manage to get that accomplished
10:13 PM * rue_mohr shudders at the thought of a 12' mecha docking for a charge
10:13 PM rue_mohr: {:S
10:13 PM rue_mohr: CLACHUNK!
10:13 PM rue_mohr: *beep*
10:13 PM * Tom_L wonders what rue_mohr's lecture about building cnc machines was all about
10:14 PM Tom_L: oops it sat on your house
10:14 PM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, just steal one of these from the Tesla factory: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/video/2015/aug/07/tesla-model-s-snake-charger-creepy-video
10:16 PM rue_mohr: hah
10:16 PM rue_mohr: depending on where it was mounted it could be unsuitable for family viewing
10:16 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr
10:16 PM rue_mohr: yes, gnight?
10:16 PM Tom_L: there's a robot at the scrap yard... come help me move it
10:17 PM rue_mohr: ?
10:17 PM rue_mohr: painting arm?
10:17 PM rue_mohr: welder?
10:17 PM Tom_L: the gokart guy was telling me about it
10:17 PM rue_mohr: kuka?
10:17 PM rue_mohr: abb?
10:17 PM Tom_L: i vaguely remember seeing one on a long ago trip there
10:17 PM rue_mohr: not devilibis?
10:17 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure i didn't take the time to walk back there and look
10:18 PM rue_mohr: I know a guy with one all crouched into a seacan in his yard
10:18 PM Tom_L: he said it had a control sitting beside it
10:18 PM * Tom_L imagines rue_mohr could be that person
10:19 PM Tom_L: i was too beat to do much tonight
10:22 PM rue_mohr: they give frequent fliers at that place?
10:22 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, http://www.cambam.info/downloads/
10:22 PM rue_mohr: if you can run that, its good fora eval pass
10:22 PM rue_mohr: I might actaully pay for that
10:23 PM Tom_L: cambam sucks afik
10:23 PM Tom_L: some use it i guess
10:23 PM rue_mohr: yes, but so far it sucks the least
10:23 PM rue_mohr: its coughed up a number of optons that I didn't think it'd have
10:23 PM Tom_L: you gonna run that on windows or linux?
10:24 PM rue_mohr: like manually moving the tabs
10:24 PM rue_mohr: widnows :(
10:24 PM rue_mohr: we have a windwos laptop
10:24 PM rue_mohr: int eh shop
10:24 PM Tom_L: you should load up mine
10:24 PM rue_mohr: I want soemthing that runs on linux
10:24 PM Tom_L: you probably wouldn't like it though, it's pretty old
10:25 PM Tom_L: but it'll do full 3d
10:25 PM rue_mohr: iirc jester got it half installed soemwhere and gave up, but I'd like to see it
10:25 PM Tom_L: get the disk from him
10:25 PM rue_mohr: maybe we can try sometime
10:25 PM Tom_L: he missed the last step and gave up
10:25 PM rue_mohr: yea he got all funny, I dont know why
10:25 PM rue_mohr: he has a messed up life
10:26 PM rue_mohr: he does good considering
10:26 PM Tom_L: yeah you told me a little
10:27 PM rue_mohr: a month? ago he had a stroke and can barely use his right arm now
10:27 PM Tom_L: i wanna get things welded soon so i can take them and have things milled flat
10:27 PM Tom_L: that sucks
10:28 PM Tom_L: all i did tonight is drill 1 hole
10:28 PM Tom_L: but it's gonna hold the screw while it gets turned down
10:29 PM rue_bed: hey thats 1 hole closer
10:30 PM rue_bed: what pitch are the ball scerws?
10:30 PM rue_bed: I was lookin at some from china, but they didn't say the pitch
10:30 PM rue_bed: and when I asked, all I got was confusion
10:30 PM Tom_L: i wanted to make a drill plate for the nut mount but i didn't get that done. i did the cad for it though
10:30 PM Tom_L: 5mm pitch
10:30 PM Tom_L: most are 5mm
10:31 PM Tom_L: you can tell by the numbers
10:31 PM rue_bed: and your direct drive?
10:31 PM anonnumberanon: :() getting your frame milled..
10:31 PM Tom_L: for instance: 1605 is 16mm screw 5mm pitch
10:31 PM Tom_L: 2005 is 20mm screw 5mm pitch
10:31 PM rue_bed: k
10:32 PM rue_bed: I wont buy into lots of things, but ball screws are a good thing
10:32 PM anonnumberanon: yes
10:32 PM Tom_L: it's so i can locate the holes exact in the plate i can't fit under the sherline
10:32 PM rue_bed: so wait, 5mm pitch, 1.4 degree motor with how many microsteps?
10:32 PM Tom_L: so i'll make them in a small plate and put it where it needs to go and drill them then
10:32 PM Tom_L: 10
10:32 PM Tom_L: fixed
10:33 PM Tom_L: 1.4?
10:33 PM rue_bed: .0025mm
10:33 PM Tom_L: where you gettin 1.4 from?
10:33 PM rue_bed: about 1 thou/step?
10:33 PM Tom_L: aren't they 1.2 or someting
10:33 PM rue_bed: 200 spr?
10:34 PM Tom_L: yes
10:34 PM Tom_L: i think
10:34 PM rue_bed: 1.8 :)
10:34 PM Tom_L: yeah, i just knew it wasn't 1.4
10:34 PM rue_bed: keep screwing up the recall on that number
10:35 PM rue_bed: was the design for about 1 thou/step?
10:35 PM Tom_L: what design?
10:35 PM Tom_L: :)
10:35 PM rue_bed: haha
10:35 PM rue_bed: I'm sure I remmeber us going all over it
10:35 PM rue_bed: I dont remmeber the answer
10:36 PM Tom_L: 1 thou linear or rotation?
10:36 PM rue_bed: linear
10:36 PM Tom_L: it was finer than that as i recall
10:36 PM rue_bed: 1 motor microstep = ~1thou
10:36 PM rue_bed: units .0025mm inch
10:36 PM rue_bed: * 9.8425197e-05
10:36 PM rue_bed: isn't that .98 thou?
10:36 PM anonnumberanon: .00254
10:37 PM Tom_L: right now i do 40000 steps per inch? or is that per rev
10:37 PM Tom_L: must be inch
10:37 PM rue_bed: my zero cound is wrong
10:37 PM Tom_L: on a 20 pitch screw
10:37 PM rue_bed: ~ .1 thou/step
10:37 PM rue_bed: k
10:38 PM Tom_L: yeah when the time comes i'll have to figure out the 5mm to inch conversion to get that right
10:38 PM rue_bed: can you tighten a ballscrew nut?
10:38 PM Tom_L: it has a backlash nut
10:38 PM Tom_L: for end play in the shaft
10:38 PM rue_bed: 10160 steps/inch
10:38 PM Tom_L: afik that's it
10:40 PM anonnumberanon: good thing about good cnc parts is you can quickly resell them for 75% of their initial cost
10:41 PM rue_bed: 5mm/2000 steps -> steps/inch = 10160
10:41 PM Tom_L: where you gettin 2000 steps from?
10:41 PM Tom_L: i'm too tired to think right now
10:41 PM rue_bed: 200 spr * 10
10:42 PM rue_bed: so, yea, their microsteps
10:42 PM rue_bed: at some point a piece of wire does the conversion :)
10:43 PM Tom_L: then on the Z multiply that by 3
10:43 PM Tom_L: 3:1 reduction
10:43 PM rue_bed: otherwise it just drops when the steppers are turned off?
10:43 PM rue_bed: 5mm sounds pretty backdrivable
10:44 PM Tom_L: sleep time
10:44 PM Tom_L: gnite
10:44 PM rue_bed: commercial cnc must have park locks
10:45 PM Tom_L: they have spindle brakes
10:45 PM rue_bed: but you wouldn't want your table moving around under transport
10:45 PM rue_bed: maybe just packing
10:46 PM anonnumberanon: you'd relevel and resquare it after a move
10:46 PM rue_bed: yea
10:46 PM Tom_L: not your average level either
10:46 PM rue_bed: but I'm talking around not having the table come coasting into an endstop when the truckdriver puts the brakes on
10:46 PM anonnumberanon: i've been trying to find an affordable level, it kind of difficult
10:47 PM anonnumberanon: a good one
10:47 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DOKOC/ref=asc_df_B0002DOKOC5302196/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B0002DOKOC&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167126811300&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8259136748637022393&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9024248&hvtargid=pla-310901270770
10:47 PM anonnumberanon: yeah....
10:47 PM anonnumberanon: trying to avoid this
10:47 PM rue_bed: you want a level as a square reference?
10:48 PM anonnumberanon: https://www.amazon.com/HAMMERHEAD-HLLT10-Digital-Laser-Level/dp/B00OZHIGGE/ref=sr_1_32?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1513284173&sr=1-32&keywords=level
10:48 PM anonnumberanon: yes pretty much rue_bed
10:49 PM anonnumberanon: a level and a well thought-out dial indicator system
10:49 PM anonnumberanon: and a lot of ingenuity
10:49 PM anonnumberanon: a precisely machined table would be required to do the squaring properly
10:50 PM rue_bed: weighted wheel with a pneumatic bearing?
10:50 PM Tom_L: a precisely scraped table
10:50 PM Tom_L: machining won't get you that close
10:50 PM anonnumberanon: rue_bed,
10:51 PM anonnumberanon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002K07CTK/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3H367CBPE368U
10:51 PM anonnumberanon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0043F4YLO/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2FYHGC4NSM6WF
10:51 PM Tom_L: i'm out..
10:53 PM anonnumberanon: this gives 0.01 degrees precision https://www.amazon.com/Floureon-Inclinometer-Protractor-Magnetic-DXL360S/dp/B00IKDQHWO/ref=sr_1_177?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1513284551&sr=1-177&keywords=level
10:54 PM anonnumberanon: still a bit expensive for my taste/budget
11:20 PM ferdna: any ideas on how to build something like this?
11:20 PM ferdna: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9idE-1s9Bo4