#robotics Logs
Dec 12 2017
#robotics Calendar
11:04 AM anonnumberanon: I'm gonna have a 10-day vacation and want to prepare myself for building a cnc mill, i want to do 3 days of electronics, 3 days of family time around christmas and 3-4 days of building stuff to get better so that eventually i can make the machine. Would you recommend a course of action to make myself a crash course on metal work and etc?
11:07 AM anonnumberanon: (the 3 days of electronics has nothing to do with cnc stuff, just want to geek out on microcontrollers and such)
11:07 AM SpeedEvil: What are yout initial skills
11:07 AM anonnumberanon: somewhat involved car repair, beginner level in welding, electrical engineer
11:07 AM anonnumberanon: been fixing my own cars (everything, never take to mechanic) for quite a few years now
11:07 AM anonnumberanon: just recently completed an exhaust custom system for my car
11:07 AM anonnumberanon: so basically measuring pipes, cutting and welding
11:10 AM anonnumberanon: oh meant to post in #linuxcnc, they're good at this stuff
01:35 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, you would need a set of tools
01:36 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, for the cnc mill, you dont need too much in the way of microcontroller stuff
01:36 PM rue_mohr: grbl has enough to put you on your feet
01:37 PM rue_mohr: we could go over changing settings in the firmware and wiring it to things
01:37 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, do you know why you dont need to home a cnc?
01:37 PM AchiestDragon: http://www.fretzdesign.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/250x250/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/e/set-hmr-m.jpg
01:37 PM rue_mohr: where is the 15lb?
01:40 PM AchiestDragon: thats only the starter set
01:42 PM AchiestDragon: https://helisports.pictures/products/1000/hastings/sledgehammers/25kg/hastings-sledgehammer-25kg.jpg 25kg do you ?
01:43 PM AchiestDragon: 55.1lb
01:44 PM AchiestDragon: good for ensuring cpus fit snug in there sockets
01:44 PM anonnumberanon: i use this, got one at home, it's is for when hardware says no, i swing then it says yes sir!
01:45 PM anonnumberanon: the other day i tried removing a wheel from car, would not get unstuck, even hitting the tire with this, but combination of spinning the tire fast by and, and hitting it, worked
01:46 PM anonnumberanon: that was my last chance of getting it out
01:46 PM anonnumberanon: my wrist was dead for days after this
01:54 PM rue_mohr: we need an unregulated communication network
01:54 PM rue_mohr: anyhow
01:54 PM rue_mohr: the us government WILL screw up the world
01:54 PM rue_mohr: prolly not along
01:55 PM rue_mohr: alone
01:56 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, if your intested in just general microcontroller programming stuff on a side to and cnc stuff, I have lots of stuff I can show ya
02:00 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, hey, dont forget to follow those motor leads
02:01 PM rue_mohr: you would be really helped out by haivng the drivers those other printers and stuff come with
02:02 PM anonnumberanon: i need advice on this, what else should i train? https://files.fm/u/g466666a
02:02 PM anonnumberanon: it's a LibreOffice spreadsheet
02:06 PM rue_mohr: ods?
02:06 PM rue_mohr: mmmm
02:07 PM rue_mohr: dont have libreoffice on this machine, huh
02:07 PM rue_mohr: how about export to to html and push it somwerherE?
02:07 PM rue_mohr: https://www.w3schools.com/html/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_basic
02:07 PM rue_mohr: like there
02:08 PM polprog: that's a creative way for temporary free hosting :D
02:09 PM rue_mohr: ;)
02:12 PM anonnumberanon: nah then the html needs to be uploaded, plus i t may contain exif data i don't want to check
02:20 PM rue_mohr: ok, so whats on the list then
02:20 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, you noticed I gave you a url to pate the html into, right?
02:22 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, your ping time is frustrating
02:23 PM anonnumberanon: too much work
02:24 PM rue_mohr: oh yea, I'm home sick
02:25 PM Tom_L: not doin any better ehh?
02:29 PM rue_mohr: its changing
02:29 PM rue_mohr: everything is still about 15* sideways
02:30 PM mumptai: maybe someone has some additions: https://github.com/cajt/list_of_robot_electronics
02:31 PM i-make-robots: anyone here ever play with voronoi stipples?
02:31 PM rue_mohr: how abouta 32 channel servo controller
02:31 PM mumptai: is it open source?
02:31 PM rue_mohr: I'm pretty sure I posted it to github too
02:45 PM rue_mohr: FFFFFFFFFFFFF git is frustrating
02:47 PM rue_mohr: ugh
02:48 PM anonnumberanon: mumptai, list lacks power supplies, a robot is nothing without it
02:49 PM emeraldgreen: hi
02:49 PM emeraldgreen: about power supplies and lithium
02:49 PM mumptai: anonnumberanon, yes, but do you know any reasonable open source designs?
02:50 PM emeraldgreen: why is there such a low amount of hobby robots with lipo battery and auto-charging via a dock-station?
02:50 PM rue_mohr: https://github.com/ruenahcmohr/servo32
02:50 PM rue_mohr: thre!
02:50 PM mumptai: I would also say power distribution and conditioning is also important
02:51 PM rue_mohr: it would be good to have a linklist of not just code, but to hardware and schematics stuffs too
02:53 PM anonnumberanon: mumptai, open source is usually more expensive than bought in my experience so the answer is no. For instance, try to make a dev board with an arm microcontroller, you'll be spending 10 to 15 dollars, they are available for $2.
02:54 PM mumptai: ohh, it is not about saving money
02:54 PM rue_mohr: yea, well you buy the board for $2 from china
02:54 PM rue_mohr: duh
02:55 PM rue_mohr: make the system out of the BOARDS that are cheaper than the CHIPS
02:55 PM mumptai: wellllll
02:55 PM rue_mohr: thats why I buy pro mini ($2.50) instead of a mega328 ($8)
02:57 PM mumptai: ATMEGA328P-AURCT-ND -> 1,82000€
02:58 PM mumptai: anyways to me the availiable hardware/electronics is insufficient
02:59 PM mumptai: sure arduino + RAMPS, or some l298 shield can be bought for little €€€s
02:59 PM anonnumberanon: what do you mean?
02:59 PM mumptai: but its crap in many ways, and i don't see how i can build interesting (complex) robotics with that
03:00 PM anonnumberanon: a robot is a power supply, motors and a microcontroller
03:00 PM anonnumberanon: how much simpler can it get? :)
03:01 PM mumptai: the alternatives that would be sufficient are often things from industrial environments, like many of the EtherCAT modules
03:01 PM mumptai: but even those eat a lot of power
03:02 PM mumptai: for example i have a differntial dirve plattform
03:02 PM mumptai: that uses extra odometry wheel, with high resolution encoders
03:03 PM mumptai: there are also encoders on the motors, which means that my MCU needs to take four encoder signals
03:03 PM mumptai: which ways beyond what any cheap arduino can do
03:04 PM mumptai: also L298 are 30+ years old and waste too much power
03:05 PM mumptai: then i would like some ultrasonic range finders, which will be connected to another MCU. So need to add internal communication
03:05 PM rue_mohr: mum + 8 chiiping
03:05 PM rue_mohr: and its not on a board with support hardware
03:05 PM mumptai: which is either rs-485/422 or CAN
03:05 PM rue_mohr: and I suspect that 1.82 usd
03:05 PM rue_mohr: I was reffereing to cad
03:06 PM mumptai: 1.82 EUR
03:06 PM rue_mohr: ouch, yea, that proves me point then
03:06 PM rue_mohr: dont use L298 use the 5 digit one
03:06 PM rue_mohr: thats fet based
03:07 PM mumptai: i know, i use a stm32 and have some decent h-bridges
03:07 PM rue_mohr: what H bridges do you use?
03:08 PM rue_mohr: I found some good ones for small low voltage motors
03:09 PM mumptai: thes are l6203, almost as old, but by far not that hot
03:09 PM rue_mohr: one is a low votlage drop (0.2v!) bipolar and the other is technically a dual fet driver I think
03:09 PM mumptai: there are plenty newer ones with nice featrues
03:10 PM * rue_mohr waits for details
03:10 PM mumptai: for the FPGA system i also have some module with dedicated half-bridge drivers and current sensing by acs712
03:11 PM rue_mohr: ok, so not a commercially available module
03:11 PM mumptai: no
03:11 PM mumptai: their BoM is actually rather expensive
03:12 PM rue_mohr: IR4427 ?
03:13 PM rue_mohr: peak rating is 2.3A
03:13 PM rue_mohr: but...
03:13 PM mumptai: its a IR21844
03:14 PM rue_mohr: the 4427 is rated 1.5A
03:14 PM rue_mohr: they dont say tho...
03:15 PM rue_mohr: there is another chip I got, honestly I dont know if I got that one for a motor driver or a fet driver :)
03:16 PM mumptai: this is either the predecesor, or the latest one: https://github.com/dergraaf/loa/blob/master/pcb/motor_driver_irf7413.sch
03:16 PM rue_mohr: higher current?
03:16 PM mumptai: don't have eagle installed right now
03:17 PM mumptai: depending on the mosfets
03:17 PM mumptai: 10A shouldn't be much of a problem
03:18 PM rue_mohr: ok, your not talking about a small motor then
03:18 PM mumptai: today i would take one of the small integrated ones from TI
03:18 PM rue_mohr: i was surprised how even the midsized motors i have respond to 1A
03:19 PM rue_mohr: cool to have the money to do that
03:20 PM rue_mohr: I spend about 1/50th on my projects than most people do
03:20 PM rue_mohr: and I do 40x as many projects
03:20 PM z64555: ...because your projects depend on other projects
03:20 PM rue_mohr: I seen people who spend 10 years and $8000 on ONE project
03:21 PM rue_mohr: and its all they ever did
03:21 PM rue_mohr: its the ONLY project they have EVER done
03:23 PM anonnumberanon: $8000 spread along 10 years is very little money imo if you only do 1 project
03:23 PM Snert_: with work as "an electronic project" - some don't really want to do lots of them at home.
03:23 PM anonnumberanon: meaning you love it so much everything has to revolve around it
03:24 PM z64555: speaking of life's work, rue_mohr how goes the big robot :P
03:25 PM rue_mohr: z64555, cant get myself to sit down with the force feedback stuff
03:25 PM z64555: whats the matter?
03:25 PM rue_mohr: right now, infront of me, I have a m328 flashing an led, I plan to put a pid cloop on it yesterday
03:25 PM rue_mohr: dunno, between distractions and being ill
03:25 PM mumptai: that is like an average of 67 usd per month
03:26 PM rue_mohr: 8MP usb camera for $85 from china, almost sounds legit?
03:26 PM rue_mohr: the 12' mecha has a $240 budget
03:26 PM rue_mohr: so it'll come togethor a bit slow
03:26 PM z64555: $240 is a rather tight budget for something like that
03:27 PM anonnumberanon: shhh
03:27 PM rue_mohr: I have work to do for the muscle system
03:27 PM z64555: unless thats monthly?
03:27 PM z64555: or you're taking parts from other projects, scrapyard as gratis
03:28 PM mumptai: anyway, i'd like to see capable robots, open-hardware doesn't cut it, if everyone designs & manufactures it over and over again
03:28 PM mumptai: visibility is just one small step on that path
03:28 PM z64555: i dunno, the wheel turned out pretty nice
03:29 PM anonnumberanon: ^ this guy
03:29 PM z64555: :P
03:32 PM mumptai: and something nice: https://hobbyking.com/de_de/turnigy-sk8-esc-for-electric-skateboard-conversion.html here one can actually buy an open-source hardware design
03:33 PM mumptai: not the "cheapest" but it has nice features, and i probably can't build it cheap in small batches ... even if i don't value my time at all
03:34 PM mumptai: and that one has a CAN interface, so it can be integrated into a bigger system without much headache ahead
03:35 PM mumptai: (I²C along side high current motors is an accident waiting to happen, imho)
03:44 PM rue_mohr: @#$ why is a 5MP raspberry pi camera 1/10 the cost of any other 5mp camera?
03:50 PM i-make-robots: good question.
03:50 PM i-make-robots: any idea how to make two picams run off one pi?
03:51 PM * i-make-robots is afraid to google "two cameras one pi"
03:51 PM anonnumberanon: lol
03:51 PM mumptai: use the compute module
03:55 PM rue_mohr: haha
03:55 PM rue_mohr: I dont blame you
03:56 PM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-raspberry-pi-camera-5mp-pixels-RASPBERRY-PI-CAMERA/32293433078.html
03:56 PM rue_mohr: can anyone identify that Pi?
03:57 PM rue_mohr: gee is a pi worth $50?
04:00 PM rue_mohr: I dont know if the pi camera interface is the same on all of them
04:02 PM rue_mohr: I need a pi expert
04:04 PM veverak: afaik it is
04:09 PM emeraldgreen: rue_mohr I have good experience with orange pi zero + armbian
04:09 PM rue_mohr: k
04:09 PM anonnumberanon: it's $35
04:10 PM rue_mohr: the idea is to have a command line triggerable digital camera (I suppose the 5mp one will do)
04:10 PM rue_mohr: I presume emulating a usb device is silly, so that leaves a network connection
04:10 PM anonnumberanon: looks like the pi zero also has that camera port
04:10 PM anonnumberanon: and as we know the pi zero is $5
04:11 PM rue_mohr: whaaat
04:11 PM rue_mohr: I see them for $50 on aliexpress
04:11 PM rue_mohr: what am I doing wrong
04:11 PM rue_mohr: ok, $25
04:12 PM anonnumberanon: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Raspberry-Pi-3-Model-B-1GB-LPDDR2-BCM2837-64-bit-Quad-Core-1-2-GHz/32623151958.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_5000015_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_51102_10546_10340_10341_10548_10545_5130015_10609_10541_10084_10083_10307_5690015_10539_5080015_10312_10059_10313_10314_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_10594_5060015_10596_10142_1010
04:12 PM anonnumberanon: 7-10344,searchweb201603_31,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=fdddea13-61bb-4413-8cb6-e339e6ac6e17-5&algo_pvid=fdddea13-61bb-4413-8cb6-e339e6ac6e17&rmStoreLevelAB=0
04:12 PM rue_mohr: wait wait, if I use a zero, I dont have networking
04:12 PM rue_mohr: just copy from the .html back
04:12 PM rue_mohr: umberanon> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Raspberry-Pi-3-Model-B-1GB-LPDDR2-BCM2837-64-bit-Quad-Core-1-2-GHz/32623151958.html
04:12 PM rue_mohr: k, thats $48
04:12 PM rue_mohr: oh I'm in cad
04:13 PM anonnumberanon: https://goo.gl/eopQz8
04:14 PM rue_mohr: thats $56, which requires a special budget
04:14 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, no its easy, just find the .html in the ul an only copy from there back to the beggining
04:14 PM anonnumberanon: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjv__DBv4XYAhVl0YMKHe4rCRkQFggpMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FFashionReps%2Fcomments%2F49axtg%2Ftutorial_how_to_share_your_aliexpress_wishlist%2F&usg=AOvVaw3o-KxJ-BUDgcp_yOJi02RL
04:14 PM anonnumberanon: ah okay
04:14 PM anonnumberanon: ty
04:15 PM rue_mohr: oh?
04:15 PM rue_mohr: I gave up
04:15 PM anonnumberanon: click that latter one though it's 7 dollars pi + camera
04:16 PM anonnumberanon: "Listen up internet friends, I'm going to teach you how to share your Aliexpress wishlist with others."
04:16 PM anonnumberanon: he even holds your hand while doing it
04:17 PM anonnumberanon: "On the upper-right hand corner there should be a box titled "share". Select the twitter one (don't worry you don't have to login)"
04:17 PM anonnumberanon: (that's in the wishlist menu)
04:18 PM anonnumberanon: "Step 3: Copy and paste the URL and give it out to your real friends."
04:18 PM anonnumberanon: "Step 5: Profit"
04:18 PM rue_mohr: yea aliepxress has a really neat login barrier, it will assume your you till you try to do anything personal, then it checks
04:18 PM rue_mohr: a wish list must be different thana basket then
04:19 PM anonnumberanon: maybe from the basket you can move shit to the wishlist
04:19 PM rue_mohr: dont think so
04:21 PM rue_mohr: oh, found the "add to wish list"
04:24 PM rue_mohr: I have no share button
04:26 PM anonnumberanon: turn off ad blocker, javascript blocker
04:26 PM rue_mohr: :-|
04:26 PM rue_mohr: no?
04:27 PM anonnumberanon: ok i don't know cause i don't have an account there so i can t login and check
04:27 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, take this chainsaw and cut a circle thru the floor in a 18" radius around you.
04:28 PM * anonnumberanon sells chainsaw and buys 2 chainsaws with the money on aliexpress.com
04:29 PM * rue_mohr goes to aliepxress with chomium and start trying to click away the popups so he can see if there is a 'share wishlist'
04:30 PM rue_mohr: still no 'share wishlist'
04:31 PM rue_mohr: oh maybe default is private
04:31 PM anonnumberanon: maybe just a twitter button, they look like white squares
04:31 PM rue_mohr: AHA!@
04:31 PM rue_mohr: tahts it
04:31 PM rue_mohr: the default wishlist is private
04:32 PM rue_mohr: you need to make a public wishlist and then the sharing options come up
04:32 PM rue_mohr: https://my.aliexpress.com/wishlist/shared.htm?groupId=3118228394
04:32 PM rue_mohr: try that, see what comes up
04:33 PM rue_mohr: ?
04:36 PM anonnumberanon: Sorry, this is not a public Wish List.
04:38 PM rue_mohr: whaaaaat
04:39 PM rue_mohr: Default Wish List
04:39 PM rue_mohr: build robot (Public)
04:40 PM rue_mohr: bah, even I get it
04:40 PM rue_mohr: (the error)
04:41 PM rue_mohr: wtf
04:41 PM rue_mohr: if it wasn't public, I couldn't have obtained the url
04:41 PM rue_mohr: wait, try now
04:42 PM rue_mohr: wtf
04:42 PM rue_mohr: yea it didn't work
04:42 PM rue_mohr: I see that
04:42 PM rue_mohr: wtf
04:42 PM rue_mohr: I dont know
04:42 PM rue_mohr: try from scratch again
04:42 PM rue_mohr: ok
04:43 PM anonnumberanon: are you sharing with twitter?
04:43 PM veverak: lol
04:43 PM veverak: :)
04:43 PM anonnumberanon: have you tried logging off and on again? cycling the power button on your computer tower?
04:43 PM rue_mohr: no, we think its cause we added the items to a private list and then moved them
04:43 PM * rue_mohr shoots anonnumberanon with a dart gun
04:44 PM rue_mohr: thats not polite
04:44 PM rue_mohr: yes, but I'm annoyed
04:44 PM rue_mohr: ok...
04:48 PM rue_mohr: https://my.aliexpress.com/wishlist/shared.htm?groupId=3118211490
04:48 PM rue_mohr: ?
04:48 PM rue_mohr: wtf, its broken
04:48 PM rue_mohr: not terribly surprizing
04:52 PM rue_mohr: its a bust anyhow, yo cant set the number of items
04:52 PM rue_mohr: so i cant builda shopping list for a robot for sometone and have them drop it in their basket and check out
04:54 PM anonnumberanon: you could make a pdf of the page that the list is on, then share that
04:56 PM anonnumberanon: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/webtopdf/#&gid=1&pid=1
04:56 PM anonnumberanon: the firefox extension is called webtopdf
04:56 PM anonnumberanon: not sure if it's nice
05:07 PM rue_mohr: I could also write some kinda client side script that would build a shopping cart when you access it
05:07 PM rue_mohr: while I'm at it, I could implement world peace
05:08 PM veverak: wat you waiting for?
05:12 PM anonnumberanon: sigh
05:13 PM anonnumberanon: you better work on that PID then, that's a peace keeping concept for signals, that's a start
05:13 PM rue_mohr: oh yea, get my scope
05:13 PM rue_mohr: and a rc filter
05:14 PM * anonnumberanon goes home and picks up printer on the way just for giggles
05:14 PM anonnumberanon: (wont have steppers)
05:16 PM Tom_L: ok i set the gas to 20cfh, ground all the rust and plan to crank up the heat and try once more
05:21 PM rue_mohr: ok
05:21 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, what kinda printer
05:21 PM rue_mohr: look for laser printers with scanners
05:22 PM rue_mohr: AND fax macines
05:22 PM rue_mohr: everyone has a fax to get rid of
05:22 PM rue_mohr: walk into any accounting ofice and ask if you can have their old fax machine, introduce yourself as the fax-machine reaper
05:22 PM rue_mohr: they will cheer and smile and point you to them
05:28 PM theBear: heh, if there's one thing offices full of accountants is known for, it is their good humor and how quickly they can be roused to a cheer and even teh old mini-tickertape-parade deal back to yer vehicle on a good day
05:30 PM theBear: oh no wait, that wasn't accountants, that was astronauts ! ("I don't want some filthy astronaut moving into our neighborhood ! Just imagine ~! planting little flags on any little rise in the landscape, not to mention that I don't want my kids to be sitting there all innocent waiting for the traffic lights to switch, suddenly having to see some dirty astronautt floating by, just casually defying
05:30 PM theBear: gravity like it ain't no thing !\
05:30 PM theBear: )
05:31 PM rue_mohr: I think I need to make a pile of power bars that are limited to like 5A and create a huge plug array
05:32 PM theBear: heh, that accidental \\ escaping my <CR> sure saved the day just now... nothing bugs me more than missing complimentary/symmetrical punctions with only limp floppy wet-fish like hands for an excuse !
05:33 PM rue_mohr: heh
05:33 PM theBear: hmm, how you limit the current in a power bar ? something to do with amount of rolled oats you start with, and maybe some subtle temp/time mod to account
05:39 PM rue_mohr: breaker or fuse
05:39 PM rue_mohr: so I can have 8 ganged up and know nothing stupid can happen
05:40 PM rue_mohr: then again, if I made a power supply with 5, 9, 12V outputs at a good current, and just went to all the supid things with it
05:40 PM rue_mohr: usb programmable ouputs? there's a recepie for disaster
05:42 PM theBear: orright, time fer body maintenance routines... later tater
05:46 PM rue_mohr: well thats really strange
05:46 PM rue_mohr: I have avr pin -> 100 ohms -> 1uF cap -> gnd
05:47 PM rue_mohr: but its NOT an rc charge discharge
05:47 PM rue_mohr: (square wave)
05:47 PM rue_mohr: the charge is RC, but its a constant current discharge
06:02 PM veverak: god ucking damnit
06:02 PM veverak: I just can't find a nice picture of a robotic joint
06:06 PM rue_mohr: theBear, ?
06:07 PM rue_mohr: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Joint.jpg/1200px-Joint.jpg
06:07 PM rue_mohr: veverak, ^?
06:07 PM veverak: eeeh
06:07 PM veverak: not that kind of joint
06:09 PM rue_mohr: well say more
06:09 PM rue_mohr: is it for artwork on some big commercial site for billion dollar robotic systems?
06:09 PM durrf: thats a hand rolled cigarette tobacco sir
06:10 PM durrf: shit i fucked itup
06:10 PM veverak: rue_mohr: it is for my thesis
06:10 PM rue_mohr: if so, I'll take ya a good pic of one of the joints on my $20 robots
06:12 PM rue_mohr: tell me what your looking for
06:12 PM rue_mohr: what do you invision
06:12 PM veverak: I have an section about mechanical joints and choice of an actuator for quadruped robot
06:12 PM veverak: for the context of this, I only talk about mechanical joints which are actuated
06:12 PM veverak: wanted some nice pic for it
06:12 PM rue_mohr: k
06:12 PM rue_mohr: one min
06:13 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm4/p1010486.jpg
06:13 PM rue_mohr: more side?
06:14 PM veverak: hmm, different angle
06:14 PM veverak: also not sure how I should cite this
06:14 PM rue_mohr: what kinda angle are you looking for
06:14 PM rue_mohr: straight on side?
06:14 PM veverak: side
06:15 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm6/p1040198.jpg
06:15 PM rue_mohr: but with actuators, right?
06:16 PM veverak: yup
06:16 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm6/p1070883.jpg
06:16 PM rue_mohr: +- actautors and a plain background?
06:17 PM rue_mohr: might help if the parts were straight
06:18 PM theBear: apparently they can marry neatly even if they are gay, as of just recently :-)
06:19 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm10/slide.htm
06:19 PM rue_mohr: closeup of the side of the base with a plain background?
06:19 PM rue_mohr: veverak, did ya die?
06:20 PM rue_mohr: theBear, this is crazy, the - driver of an avr is constant current!
06:22 PM veverak: sleeping
06:22 PM veverak: I am tired, gonna sleep
06:22 PM veverak: rue_mohr: thanks for the effort, I will figure out osmething tomorrow
06:22 PM veverak: thinking stopped -2 minut
06:25 PM rue_shop3: I took two photos but I think you want a cantalevered joint, and I dont do those
06:25 PM Tom_L: no gas
06:25 PM veverak: I need something that self-explanatory describes what actuated joint is
06:25 PM veverak: but hey, I am too tired
06:25 PM rue_shop3: oh I did on one
06:25 PM veverak: rue_shop3: thanks again, night!
06:26 PM Tom_L: i stuck a balloon on the tip and disabled the wirefeed and it doesn't inflate the balloon at all
06:28 PM rue_shop3: veverak, stand by 3 mins
06:28 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, aha
06:29 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, doe sthe reulagor show flow?
06:29 PM Tom_L: the needle dips
06:29 PM rue_mohr: er, you dont ahve a FLOW regualtor?
06:29 PM Tom_L: time to tear the machine apart
06:29 PM Tom_L: yes
06:30 PM Tom_L: it's set to 20 cfh
06:30 PM Tom_L: back out to diagnose...
06:30 PM rue_mohr: veverak, 3 images....
06:31 PM rue_mohr: just about...
06:31 PM Tom_L: i'd think it would inflate a balloon woudn't it?
06:31 PM rue_mohr: atleast lightly
06:32 PM rue_mohr: veverak, full rez
06:32 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/not_public_dont_open/p1090538.jpg
06:32 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/not_public_dont_open/p1090541.jpg
06:32 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/not_public_dont_open/p1090542.jpg
06:32 PM rue_mohr: need trimming of course, last one might be best
06:33 PM veverak: hmm
06:33 PM veverak: it is
06:33 PM rue_mohr: ok, gnight
06:33 PM veverak: thanks!
06:33 PM rue_mohr: :)
06:35 PM rue_mohr: I think you can greenscreen the orange if you want
06:35 PM rue_mohr: shadows dont help
06:35 PM rue_mohr: but I'v never had access to good greenscreen software
06:36 PM SolG is now known as SolGriffin
06:38 PM rue_mohr: oh, the pin was't set to output, hehe
06:49 PM Tom_L: damn feed hose had pulled out
06:49 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/test_bead.jpg
06:49 PM Tom_L: not the prettiest i've done but not bad
06:49 PM rue_mohr: thats waaay better
06:50 PM rue_mohr: tho still looks a bit cold to me
06:50 PM rue_mohr: on quick welds, hard to get material up to temp tho
06:50 PM Tom_L: yeah i didn't turn it all the way up to where it suggested
06:51 PM Tom_L: just wanted to be sure first
06:51 PM rue_mohr: so, what plugged it?
06:51 PM Tom_L: the feed from the handle to the machine had pulled out of the machine
06:52 PM Tom_L: probably during a jam or something
06:52 PM rue_mohr: usually a pretty small tube
06:52 PM Tom_L: that's probably why i was having trouble feeding the .025 wire too
06:52 PM rue_mohr: getting twisted or crushed?
06:52 PM Tom_L: no, the socket where the whole thing fits
06:52 PM Tom_L: wire, gas etc
06:53 PM rue_mohr: k
06:53 PM Tom_L: i was starting to doubt my ability
06:54 PM rue_mohr: any good problem is made out of a bunch of issues, even if the issues must have existed before the problem
06:54 PM Tom_L: so now a couple more pratice beads and i'm good i think
06:56 PM AchiestDragon: yea more power you should fillet the end rather than welding flush to flush so the weld fils the crack
07:01 PM AchiestDragon: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/process-and-theory/Pages/weld-fusion-weld-penetration.aspx like t/groove in fig 1 as you cant get to weld on the insde of the box section
07:13 PM rue_mohr: what was the point in C of making datatypes of arbitrary sizes?
07:14 PM rue_mohr: why define a type called char if its 8 bits on some systems and 16 on others?
07:14 PM rue_mohr: the whole reason for having different types is to utilize the type for the size of number you need to store
07:15 PM rue_mohr: char, int, long, shoudl all just go away
07:15 PM rue_mohr: we need to know if its signed, and how many bits are in it
07:15 PM AchiestDragon: c was written back in the day when a char was always a 8bit , before the days of unicode
07:15 PM rue_mohr: (or if its float)
07:15 PM rue_mohr: but they made TONES of other non-backwards compatible langauge changes
07:16 PM rue_mohr: you cant compile kernel 2 if you dont firgure out how to compile the gcc that it was meant for
07:16 PM rue_mohr: you just get a huge list of syntax errors
07:17 PM AchiestDragon: and like c++ thats c with bolt on object oreanteted stuff that fits like someone shooehoring a v12 spitfire engine into a small compact car
07:20 PM AchiestDragon: and it ends up looking like this https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JMI23gpV9Lw/maxresdefault.jpg
07:21 PM AchiestDragon: ho that has twin v12's
07:22 PM rue_mohr: I suppose if something major goes wrong, you just die
07:23 PM AchiestDragon: like c++ then
07:23 PM rue_mohr: I'm surprised the front weels dont ahve to be bigger to hold that end of the engies
07:23 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/test_bead2.jpg
07:24 PM Tom_L: how's that one look?
07:24 PM Tom_L: i turned the heat up a bit
07:24 PM rue_mohr: hmm
07:24 PM AchiestDragon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMI23gpV9Lw
07:24 PM rue_mohr: I'm looking for the top to be a bit concave
07:25 PM rue_mohr: not a wirefeed guy tho
07:25 PM Tom_L: i'm satisfied with it i think
07:25 PM AchiestDragon: Tom_L: sweet
07:26 PM Tom_L: might go just a little hotter
07:26 PM rue_mohr: I wonder what he did at the front
07:26 PM Tom_L: it's at the top end of the machine's capability
07:26 PM rue_mohr: heh, they cant sustain a run long enough to drive back around (overheat I recon)
07:31 PM AchiestDragon: Tom_L: how many A ? is the welder
07:31 PM Tom_L: it's a Miller 175
07:31 PM Tom_L: 220v
07:31 PM Tom_L: small but big enough for what i'll ever likely want to weld
07:32 PM Tom_L: and not an average 110 body shop welder..
07:33 PM Tom_L: just glad to have it tuned in finally
07:34 PM AchiestDragon: yea top end of its range for what your doing ,
08:05 PM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, meh it's in the back of my car didn't even bring it into the house
08:05 PM rue_mohr: tell me about it
08:05 PM anonnumberanon: it's like 3 inch by 3 inch by 15 inch
08:06 PM rue_mohr: my done dosn't have enough range
08:06 PM anonnumberanon: ill find the ad
08:06 PM rue_mohr: its a page scanner
08:06 PM rue_mohr: or a thermal printer
08:08 PM anonnumberanon: https://cnj.craigslist.org/zip/6364503021.html
08:08 PM anonnumberanon: this
08:09 PM * rue_mohr cowls at anonnumberanon you know how big an inch is right?
08:10 PM rue_mohr: it might have 1 to 3 steppers in it, depending on its age
08:10 PM rue_mohr: they changed from steppers to dc motors at some point on lots of them
08:14 PM anonnumberanon: veverak, for an amazing joint picture go to the video of the Korean robot you can step in and pilot, it has amazing legs with huge actuator at the knee hinges, take a screenshot in 1080p
08:16 PM anonnumberanon: 6 by 6 by 15 inch
08:16 PM anonnumberanon: okay rue_mohr what is the input of your PID?
08:22 PM rue_mohr: ? its an 8 bit number
08:23 PM anonnumberanon: from the adc?
08:23 PM rue_mohr: no, might be from serial
08:23 PM anonnumberanon: what value is it?
08:24 PM rue_mohr: 0-255
08:24 PM rue_mohr: tho, I suppose rail-to-rail is a bad policy
08:24 PM rue_mohr: I found a nice one today
08:24 PM anonnumberanon: how does it fluctuate, what does it represent?
08:24 PM anonnumberanon: ...
08:25 PM rue_mohr: well, right now my toy is a DAC, I want to use the pid loop (yea, its silly to use pid) to control an RC filter (yea I know ) and control its voltage
08:25 PM rue_mohr: I keep needing cheap DAC solutions
08:26 PM anonnumberanon: a PID helps to make changes so that the input of it looks more like the output of it
08:26 PM rue_mohr: to force the cap voltage a bit faster than just filtered pwm
08:26 PM anonnumberanon: are you trying to use it in that manner?
08:27 PM rue_mohr: the pid should improve the step reponce
08:27 PM rue_mohr: pwm -> rc filter
08:27 PM rue_mohr: open loop = bla
08:27 PM rue_mohr: pwm -> rc filter -> adc
08:28 PM rue_mohr: closed loop = yay kinda...
08:28 PM rue_mohr: serial -> dac open loop = yea.
08:28 PM rue_mohr: but $$$
08:28 PM anonnumberanon: words won't help here, need a drawing
08:29 PM anonnumberanon: and schematic
08:29 PM rue_mohr: the 12' mecha has 188 joints
08:29 PM anonnumberanon: words...
08:29 PM rue_mohr: and a $240 budget
08:29 PM rue_mohr: $1 per dac wont lead to much of a robot
08:30 PM rue_mohr: think this for a sec
08:30 PM rue_mohr: avr, m328
08:30 PM rue_mohr: pwm output
08:30 PM rue_mohr: thru RC filter (low pass)
08:30 PM anonnumberanon: post circuit
08:30 PM rue_mohr: output of that to adc
08:30 PM rue_mohr: got that?
08:31 PM rue_mohr: pwm -> low pass -> adc a loop from the m328 back into it
08:31 PM anonnumberanon: ok let's ignore the low pass element because that surely doesn't do much in understand the goal of the system
08:32 PM rue_mohr: do I really need to draw it?
08:32 PM anonnumberanon: yes
08:32 PM rue_mohr: the goal of the system is a 5c DAC
08:32 PM rue_mohr: $0.05
08:32 PM rue_mohr: composed of 1 1k resistor and 1 1uF capacitor
08:35 PM orlock: You probably need a $50,000,000 machine to make those
08:35 PM rue_mohr: p1090543.jpg
08:35 PM orlock: And chinese disregard for environmental controls!
08:36 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/
08:36 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/p1090543.jpg
08:36 PM rue_mohr: :) yay! I posted a schematic!
08:37 PM rue_mohr: so yea, the pid loop is being misapplied to do that
08:38 PM rue_mohr: pretty sure a P loop could do just fine
08:38 PM rue_mohr: its not going to overshoot
08:38 PM rue_mohr: loading might cause dc error tho
08:38 PM rue_mohr: meh
08:40 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, ... :) you thought I had a simple software puzzle?
08:42 PM anonnumberanon: right so your target is let's say 2.5 V, so you try to send say a 50% duty cycle on the pwm output
08:42 PM anonnumberanon: then read it with the adc, should get a value of 128?
08:43 PM anonnumberanon: im also refreshing myself on PID so bare with me
08:43 PM rue_mohr: if the cap isn't charged, I may need to push 100% for a while to git it up
08:43 PM rue_mohr: k
08:43 PM rue_mohr: remmeber, there are 3 types of pid
08:44 PM rue_mohr: ideal, standard, and ....
08:44 PM anonnumberanon: but yeah with PID you have your input (the adc), and the target (the "analog voltage" that you want after the RC
08:44 PM anonnumberanon: that's the basic
08:44 PM anonnumberanon: now, adc - target is your error value
08:44 PM rue_mohr: yea, pid is just a type of filter that generates an error signal for you
08:44 PM rue_mohr: unsigned char ctrl;
08:45 PM rue_mohr: thats my target, its set by some maniac on the other end of a serial cable
08:45 PM rue_mohr: its between 0 and 255
08:45 PM rue_mohr: lets say 55 to 200 so we dont hit the rails
08:45 PM anonnumberanon: slow down there
08:45 PM rue_mohr: k
08:46 PM anonnumberanon: k, now stop
08:46 PM anonnumberanon: :)
08:46 PM anonnumberanon: let me finish my research
08:46 PM anonnumberanon: cause I forgot what you do with the output of the PID
08:46 PM anonnumberanon: got a good source to understand it though
08:46 PM rue_mohr: oh, you should know that I do things by taking 15 approaches at once, and just going with whoever wins first
08:47 PM rue_mohr: unless I dont like the cost or shape of the winner
08:47 PM anonnumberanon: brute-force?
08:47 PM rue_mohr: parallel brute force
08:47 PM * anonnumberanon brbs
08:47 PM rue_mohr: I'm doing a proportionate loop just now
08:47 PM * anonnumberanon needs to ingurgitate more science
08:48 PM rue_mohr: you will find a WTF
08:48 PM rue_mohr: because I'm using an RC filter, there is no 'inertia' and therefore, no point in using pid
08:48 PM rue_mohr: I'm ignoring that
08:48 PM rue_mohr: just so you know
08:49 PM anonnumberanon: there is a point, if you have a load after the RC, then you will need the PID to keep the voltage constant
08:50 PM anonnumberanon: that is, if you want to make a constant voltage supply...
08:50 PM anonnumberanon: which is not the goal here eh?
08:50 PM rue_mohr: these are most likley going to generate reference voltages for things like constant current supplies
08:51 PM rue_mohr: I have another way to do all this, but it requires 2x 256 byte lookup tables
08:51 PM rue_mohr: and I want to play with PID anyhow
08:54 PM rue_mohr: part of the challange is that I need math operations that dont roll over
08:54 PM rue_mohr: saturate, but not roll over)
08:54 PM rue_mohr: (
08:54 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Z_Column1.jpg
08:54 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Z_Column2.jpg
08:54 PM rue_mohr: theBear, I'm doomed, I'v reverse messed up my parens
08:54 PM rue_mohr: NICE
08:55 PM Tom_L: i'll add a couple beads between the others
08:55 PM rue_mohr: those look good
08:55 PM Tom_L: but not continuous
08:55 PM Tom_L: to avoid warping
08:55 PM rue_mohr: you dont need continious
08:55 PM rue_mohr: did it curl at all on ya?
08:55 PM Tom_L: it's a little sloppy but not bad for the first actual run
08:55 PM Tom_L: no
08:55 PM rue_mohr: sweet
08:55 PM Tom_L: it's flat to a straighedge
08:56 PM anonnumberanon: ah the daily Tom_L pictures :)
08:56 PM rue_mohr: I'd totally have expected the L's to lean-in
08:56 PM anonnumberanon: was looking forward to that
08:56 PM Tom_L: it's not perfectly straight up and down but i can shim it
08:56 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:56 PM Tom_L: err square to the base..
08:56 PM Tom_L: anonnumberanon, took a bit to figure out what was going on with my welder
08:56 PM rue_mohr: gaps can be filled with steel in lots of ways
08:57 PM Tom_L: it will need some dampening added
08:57 PM anonnumberanon: so what happened, used no gas, then you used gas and it turned out really nice, and now you're out of gas?
08:57 PM Tom_L: i can tell it's gonna sing alot
08:57 PM Tom_L: no i have 2 bottles
08:58 PM Tom_L: the wire feed tube came loose from the welder causing a gas leak
08:58 PM Tom_L: the balloon test worked
08:58 PM anonnumberanon: heh
08:58 PM anonnumberanon: that center tube is 2" by 2?
08:58 PM Tom_L: 4 x 4
08:59 PM rue_mohr: haha 2x2
08:59 PM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, an inch is about | | that big
08:59 PM Tom_L: it would have been 6 x 6 but i couldn't get it home
08:59 PM Tom_L: the base is 10" wide
08:59 PM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, my screen is 128 pixels wide on 22 ", you just showed me 10 centimeters
08:59 PM rue_mohr: rue he's gonna call you on that one
09:00 PM rue_mohr: called it
09:00 PM rue_mohr: :(
09:00 PM anonnumberanon: no i sniped you
09:00 PM anonnumberanon: before you called it
09:00 PM anonnumberanon: but i lied
09:00 PM anonnumberanon: 1080p on a 15.6" so it's about right
09:01 PM anonnumberanon: from my memory of spending probably everyday looking at my ruler a couple times
09:01 PM anonnumberanon: while figuring out stuff
09:01 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr
09:01 PM anonnumberanon: never underestimate having a small ruler handy at all times
09:01 PM Tom_L: how's your mill coming along?
09:01 PM Tom_L: did you cut the 15' C?
09:03 PM anonnumberanon: Tom_L, what is the name of the picture of your cad of the mill?
09:03 PM Tom_L: which one?
09:03 PM Tom_L: there are quite a few
09:03 PM anonnumberanon: uhm, a general kind of one
09:04 PM anonnumberanon: that you were poisting last week
09:04 PM rue_mohr: where were you to remind me during th day?
09:04 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
09:04 PM anonnumberanon: good nuff
09:04 PM anonnumberanon: ty
09:04 PM Tom_L: working instead of playin sick to get a day off
09:04 PM Tom_L: btw, you feelin any better?
09:05 PM anonnumberanon: yeah these are good rails
09:06 PM anonnumberanon: apparently those bearings can take 8000lbs..
09:06 PM anonnumberanon: you have a spindle yet?
09:06 PM Tom_L: i'm gonna temporarily use my sherline spindle
09:07 PM rue_mohr: ringy, but COOL
09:08 PM Tom_L: i wish i could find some more 1/4" plate that wasn't so rusty
09:08 PM anonnumberanon: ah, don't know about this motor
09:08 PM rue_mohr: show
09:08 PM rue_mohr: or a likeness
09:08 PM Tom_L: it's amazing how much a difference gas makes
09:09 PM orlock: yeah, i can't live without gas
09:09 PM rue_mohr: well, I might have been abel to tell but you had cleaned it off
09:09 PM Tom_L: orlock how many kids you got now? 2?
09:09 PM rue_mohr: orlock, I get lots of gas, you can have it if you want
09:09 PM * anonnumberanon goes back to PID
09:10 PM Tom_L: i remember when the first was on the way
09:10 PM orlock: Plenty of gas here
09:10 PM orlock: Tom_L: 2, 1x6yo 1x2yo
09:11 PM Tom_L: still gazing at stars?
09:11 PM orlock: I dont gaze, i have a robot do that for me
09:11 PM orlock: And sort of - i ran into limitations with my old mount, which i was expecting
09:11 PM rue_mohr: oh yea
09:11 PM anonnumberanon: orlock, get me steppers from the factory floor pls
09:11 PM rue_mohr: Kp = 1/8
09:12 PM orlock: I have a new one, which came with motors integrated into the mount, and actual _bearings_ and stuff
09:12 PM orlock: anonnumberanon: No, you get steppers from the bin outside!
09:12 PM orlock: anonnumberanon: The ones on the floor are going into cancer detecting robots
09:15 PM rue_mohr: ?
09:15 PM rue_mohr: oh look, overshoot, thats cute
09:17 PM rue_mohr: there is actaully ring
09:17 PM rue_mohr: so I need some D
09:19 PM rue_mohr: I get a bit of overshoot with Kp 1/8 -> 1/16
09:21 PM rue_mohr: 1/32 is underdamped
09:21 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what to work on tomorrow
09:21 PM rue_mohr: :)
09:22 PM rue_mohr: 1/24 is underdamped
09:22 PM Tom_L: i'm still debating on the base layout
09:22 PM rue_mohr: why
09:22 PM Tom_L: well, i planned for a 500mm screw but i've got a 700mm one i sorta want to use there
09:23 PM Tom_L: i kinda don't want to cut it to length
09:23 PM rue_mohr: 1/20 is underdamped
09:23 PM Tom_L: i'll have to cut the 1000mm one
09:23 PM Tom_L: cm?
09:23 PM Tom_L: i dunno
09:23 PM Tom_L: it's just over 3' long
09:23 PM rue_mohr: I think you should just go for it
09:23 PM Tom_L: go for what?
09:23 PM rue_mohr: if its wrong, then you will have to fix it
09:24 PM rue_mohr: thats just how things go
09:24 PM Tom_L: that's what cad is for
09:24 PM Tom_L: i don't want to fix it
09:24 PM rue_mohr: you cant not walk thru a door cause your afraid someone will burst thru it as you go to reach for the handle
09:24 PM rue_mohr: hum
09:25 PM Tom_L: i'm glad i switched to the column instead of the other thing with the back brace
09:25 PM rue_mohr: 1/18 is underdamped
09:25 PM rue_mohr: er, overdamped sorry
09:25 PM anonnumberanon: Tom_L, wait you switched to what? is that cad still accurate?
09:26 PM anonnumberanon: also that cad looks weird, like your y is wasted (if that spindle is all the way to the end of the machine, not in the middle)
09:26 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_base_XAxis3.jpg
09:26 PM rue_mohr: 17 is overdamped
09:26 PM Tom_L: i scrapped that idea
09:27 PM rue_mohr: so, 1/16 has a *bit* of overshoot
09:27 PM rue_mohr: 1/20 is clean
09:28 PM rue_mohr: the transition is a bit under 10ms
09:28 PM anonnumberanon: on the other hand it seems a waste of time to machine your screw ends after you cut them, if they are already machined to fit the bearings
09:28 PM rue_mohr: the filtered pwm dosn't settle in 250ms
09:28 PM anonnumberanon: i mean, a liability
09:29 PM anonnumberanon: unless you can do the job really well
09:29 PM Tom_L: i can
09:30 PM Tom_L: i got these because they were the cheapest i could find in the lengths i wanted knowing i'd have to cut at least one
09:30 PM anonnumberanon: have you ran into the case when the screws don't fit into the bearings and you have to make a few passes on them with sandpaper?
09:30 PM anonnumberanon: i've see it documented twice already
09:48 PM Tom_L: i'm not worried about it
09:56 PM anonnumberanon: ok rue_mohr got the PID down
10:10 PM rue_mohr: classic, standard, or ideal?
10:11 PM rue_mohr: parallel?
10:12 PM rue_mohr: ok, the idea of the D term is to limit the rate of output change
10:13 PM rue_mohr: I want the rate of change to be limited to a multiple of the order of magnitude of the error
10:14 PM rue_mohr: dO(max) = k*E
10:15 PM rue_mohr: where k is from 1 to 1/infinity
10:15 PM rue_mohr: dO(max) = E/k
10:18 PM rue_mohr: not E
10:18 PM rue_mohr: hu?
10:18 PM rue_mohr: you want to limit the rate the output is actaully changing
10:18 PM rue_mohr: oh, di/dt
10:18 PM rue_mohr: if I is input yes
10:19 PM rue_mohr: so what do we want to limit the feedback change to?
10:19 PM rue_mohr: how about 64counts/cycle
10:19 PM rue_mohr: how do we do that
10:19 PM rue_mohr: go check supper and I'll tell you
10:19 PM rue_mohr: ok
10:19 PM rue_mohr: GET ME A TEA TOO
10:25 PM rue_mohr: ok
10:25 PM rue_mohr: so, rate of output change
10:26 PM rue_mohr: adc(this) - adc(last)
10:27 PM rue_mohr: is the amount of change
10:27 PM rue_mohr: you want to know if its over a certian amount
10:27 PM rue_mohr: how about we just divide it down so that less than an amount dosn't matter?
10:28 PM rue_mohr: its digital so I guess that works
10:31 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, what's this pid you're working on for?
10:32 PM rue_mohr: RC DAC
10:32 PM rue_mohr: just filtering pwm makes a horrid responce time
10:33 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:33 PM rue_mohr: I have 25x better with feedback
10:33 PM rue_mohr: and so far its just P
10:33 PM Tom_L: the pid on my spindle works pretty good but i had to add some limitations to it to avoid runaway
10:33 PM rue_mohr: yea, watch out for those poles
10:33 PM Tom_L: like if you switch to reverse from forward right away
10:34 PM Tom_L: i got a problem with my pendant now
10:35 PM Tom_L: it doesn't switch speed with the switch now. i dunno what i did to cause that
10:35 PM Tom_L: soemthing when i was playing with spindle orient
10:40 PM rue_mohr: oldadc - adc)/something
10:40 PM rue_mohr: and subtract it from the drive disnal
10:40 PM rue_mohr: you cant type anymore dude
10:40 PM rue_mohr: sure am i tyop
10:40 PM rue_mohr: I'm not sure your fit to be coding