#robotics Logs
Dec 04 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:00 AM orlock: 10,000ppr in under 2" diameter housing
12:03 AM rue_shop3: orlock, you made 10kppr encoders?
12:03 AM orlock: rue_shop3: not me personally
12:03 AM rue_shop3: I have stuff comming in for photoetching aluminum
12:03 AM orlock: rue_shop3: one of the other subsidiaries of the megacorp i work for does
12:03 AM orlock: did
12:04 AM orlock: anonnumberanon: i understand what you are wanting to do, i have thought about it before, and that's basically what it boils down to
12:04 AM rue_shop3: $40 for a 7" lcd monitor?
12:04 AM orlock: your - WHATEVER IT IS - feedback resolution
12:04 AM rue_shop3: dont forget, you cant pid to 1 error count
12:05 AM rue_shop3: you need some counts for corrective error
12:05 AM anonnumberanon: orlock, I'm just discussing right now, my plans are much simpler and less sophisticated than what we're talking about
12:07 AM anonnumberanon: rue_shop3, is that the cheapest you can find (with all you need to add is a controlling mcu)? i was looking at that stuff yesterday
12:07 AM anonnumberanon: settle for buying 3.5" screens because of price and ease to drive
12:07 AM rue_shop3: for google cardboard I need 7"
12:07 AM rue_shop3: but I'd like more than 480 lines
12:08 AM anonnumberanon: if you can replicate a fatshark for $50 or less that would be beast
12:09 AM rue_shop3: at this rate I'd be better off buying a 7" tablet for parts
12:12 AM anonnumberanon: good luck finding open libraries for those though
12:12 AM orlock: rue_shop3: Do you have an android device with an IMU to integrate the screen with?
12:12 AM rue_shop3: nono, get a lcd driver for it
12:12 AM rue_shop3: orlock, dont need it
12:12 AM rue_shop3: wonder how much lag the bot will have
12:12 AM anonnumberanon: i went to the dump the other day
12:12 AM mrdata: did you take a dump?
12:12 AM anonnumberanon: the amount of computers people just throw away is crazy
12:12 AM anonnumberanon: mrdata, go to bed
12:12 AM orlock: anonnumberanon: you would love it here
12:12 AM orlock: anonnumberanon: i grabbed about 30 Name23's from the bin
12:12 AM anonnumberanon: :) here where?
12:12 AM mrdata: anonnumberanon, not quite my bed time, yet
12:12 AM orlock: Nema23's even
12:12 AM anonnumberanon: the guy didn't let me snatch them out of the bin
12:13 AM mrdata: why not
12:13 AM anonnumberanon: i took a nice router though
12:13 AM orlock: and theres about two dozen Optiplex990's waiting to be thrown out
12:13 AM orlock: routers are one thing i just buy new funnily enough
12:13 AM anonnumberanon: mrdata, he claimed people have their data on the computers they junk and wouldn't want it to be seen
12:13 AM anonnumberanon: i was like lol
12:13 AM rue_shop3: he's gonna strip them himself and sell the ram/cpu/porn
12:14 AM orlock: anonnumberanon: they proably paid for them to be wiped, and he's covering the fact they they were not
12:14 AM orlock: and by wiped i mean "Put in the drill press"
12:14 AM orlock: we had about 30 Blackberries get thrown out
12:14 AM orlock: every one had two holes drilled through it
12:14 AM orlock: but i still managed to gran a few dozen undamaged microsd cards
12:15 AM orlock: anonnumberanon: my work makes big expensive biotech robots that process human tissue samples
12:16 AM anonnumberanon: orlock, you're like an character straight out of a sci-fi anime
12:16 AM orlock: anonnumberanon: usually people say "stephenson novel"
12:16 AM anonnumberanon: this was far from my house i need to find all the good dumps around me
12:16 AM anonnumberanon: orlock, I'm not a usual person
12:17 AM anonnumberanon: I am proud to use violent japanese cartoon references.
12:17 AM anonnumberanon: oh wait that was actually a good reference
12:18 AM rue_shop3: :) my weekend is over
12:18 AM rue_shop3: :((
12:18 AM rue_shop3: I dont get to exist again for another 5 days
12:18 AM mrdata: anonnumberanon, you could promise him you'd wipe the data off
12:19 AM mrdata: i would
12:19 AM rue_shop3: give him that hard drive, whatever, their cheap
12:19 AM mrdata: who wants saggy old amateur porn anyway
12:19 AM anonnumberanon: yeah i could come with a screwdriver and pull it out of the laptops
12:19 AM anonnumberanon: i don't need laptops though man, or computers
12:20 AM anonnumberanon: but this time i wanted to find one for my roommate who didn't have a computer
12:20 AM anonnumberanon: (well unless i find a thinkpad, I would never let that go to waste for any reason)
12:21 AM anonnumberanon: $https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/sys/d/tesoar-android-7-inch-tablet/6388390938.html
12:21 AM anonnumberanon: $30
12:22 AM anonnumberanon: https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mob/d/8-rca-nextbook-16gb-quadcore/6372844464.html
12:22 AM rue_shop3: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-7-inch-AT070TN90-LCD-Display-Screen-Kit-HDMI-VGA-Input-Driver-Board-touch-screen/32843716308.html
12:22 AM rue_shop3: whole kit I think!
12:27 AM rue_shop3: waaait a sec, thats not a backlight, thats a touch panel
12:35 AM rue_shop3: $32 for 1024x600
12:35 AM rue_shop3: 525 lines should come up great on that
12:35 AM rue_shop3: note how 480 is less than 525
12:36 AM rue_shop3: me jumps
12:36 AM rue_shop3: /////
12:40 AM rue_shop3: ok so, that'll let me play with some vr
12:40 AM rue_shop3: I have about $30 left
12:47 AM sherlock: VR at 512/600 per eye isnt gunna be very pleasing
12:50 AM sherlock: I guess the first oculus was around that
12:51 AM rue_mohr: you have to keep moving so the motion blur hides it
12:52 AM rue_mohr: oh, its getting colder
12:52 AM rue_mohr: Tav is 6c, its 1c outside
12:57 AM anonnumberanon: don't you do vr by specifically having 2 screens?
12:57 AM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, how deep can you dig into z for aluminum?
12:59 AM anonnumberanon: with cnc
01:00 AM orlock: anonnumberanon: one screen split into left/right
01:00 AM orlock: i forget if they need lenses for focusing as well?
01:00 AM orlock: they should i think
01:00 AM rue_mohr: no, cause it works out better to keep it in one analog stream
01:01 AM anonnumberanon: some people have eyes wider apart you need an adjuster for each eye for that
01:01 AM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, I go about .25"/pass
01:01 AM anonnumberanon: one of the newer fatsharks has that
01:01 AM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, tell those people I'd REALLY appreciate a lift off this rock.
01:02 AM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, okay, can the drill bit drill about 2 inches down though, cause the part of your spindle that holds the bit will contact with higher areas while you're trying to do deep
01:02 AM rue_mohr: the table is only like 4cm under the gantry, so going down 4" would be BAD
01:03 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1080736.jpg
01:04 AM rue_mohr: didn't post a lower image
01:05 AM anonnumberanon: that little gearbox, in retrospect must not be (the middle, wider part) more than 3/4 "
01:05 AM anonnumberanon: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH5v5ahUIAE2IKn.jpg:large
01:06 AM anonnumberanon: better view: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFCHQmJUIAAIV_E.jpg
01:07 AM anonnumberanon: guts: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFCHQmMUQAAFSI5.jpg
01:07 AM anonnumberanon: i can't see where he puts his pot or his encoder..
01:08 AM anonnumberanon: and whether this board has an analog ic or a mcu
01:10 AM rue_mohr: posting newer iamges of the cnc...
01:11 AM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr, did you use special methods to align the frame or just did best you could with a square and stuff?
01:11 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1090508.jpg
01:11 AM rue_mohr: you can kinda see the fixed clearance
01:12 AM rue_mohr: I made the frame good to eye and shimmed the hell out of it after
01:12 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1090485.jpg
01:12 AM rue_mohr: one rail has almost .15" of shims
01:12 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1090419.jpg
01:12 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1090056.jpg
01:12 AM anonnumberanon: well i see you welded your C shape, how did you make it shimmable
01:12 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1080818.jpg
01:13 AM rue_mohr: the angle iron that the rails are bolted into is shimmed
01:13 AM rue_mohr: the rails have a bit of play to work with too
01:14 AM rue_mohr: but I didn't concern myself with a lot of Z space as I'v never needed it
01:14 AM rue_mohr: the uprights are too far forward tho, I have to tear them off (prolly next summer) and move them back 2"
01:14 AM * anonnumberanon buys rue_mohr a dslr
01:14 AM rue_mohr: then I can get at the rest of the bed
01:14 AM rue_mohr: I reduce the resolution on purpose
01:15 AM anonnumberanon: sacrilege!
01:15 AM rue_mohr: its donated space
01:15 AM rue_mohr: you can see what you need to
01:16 AM rue_mohr: speaking of, i should push another $50 to my supporter
01:19 AM rue_mohr: p1080818.jpg JPEG 2048x1536=>640x480+0+0 DirectClass 8-bit 0.350u 0m:0.214672s (14.0Mi pixels/s)
01:19 AM rue_mohr: I dont dial it over 3M unless what I'm taking a pic of is important in the first place
01:19 AM rue_mohr: 1.7G of images so far this year
01:20 AM anonnumberanon: i just realized your pictures are not downloadable
01:20 AM rue_mohr: ? why not
01:20 AM rue_mohr: right click -> save as?
01:20 AM anonnumberanon: oh nvm
01:20 AM anonnumberanon: yeah i don't know i was searching for it in my download after
01:20 AM anonnumberanon: actually i didn't want to look at it, just find its size out of curiosity
01:20 AM rue_mohr: collecting ideaS?
01:21 AM anonnumberanon: since i can see them in my internet browser
01:21 AM rue_mohr: wget http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1090419.jpg
01:21 AM anonnumberanon: yes well im always interested in cnc machines, as far as making one im not sure i feel like i don't have time
01:21 AM rue_mohr: if you cant, its because your system wont let you access unencrypted content
01:21 AM anonnumberanon: but yeah i love pictures
01:24 AM anonnumberanon: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc4/p1080818.jpg is pretty deep i think that would satisfy the specs of this dude's diy servo gear case
01:25 AM rue_mohr: no thats only about 4cm to the bed
01:26 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc/p1030107.jpg
01:26 AM rue_mohr: THATS deep
01:27 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc/dscn7641.jpg
01:27 AM rue_mohr: 18" from bed to top
01:27 AM anonnumberanon: cant see the spindle there but sure it looks high
01:27 AM anonnumberanon: okay on that last one i see
01:27 AM rue_mohr: whole gantry goes up
01:29 AM anonnumberanon: can you tell what kind of part is on the output shaft on this? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH5v5ahUIAE2IKn.jpg:large
01:30 AM rue_mohr: its just a flange mount
01:31 AM anonnumberanon: btw here is the twitter account if you want to lurk, currently trying to find a way to just download all of the pictures in one go
01:31 AM anonnumberanon: https://twitter.com/LEGHORNsROOM
01:36 AM rue_mohr: na, I can tell that person puts every penny and every waking moment into that robot
01:36 AM rue_mohr: and I refuse to commit that much to any one project
01:36 AM rue_mohr: er, well
01:36 AM rue_mohr: there is one project
01:36 AM anonnumberanon: yeah he does it seems, I've seen somewhere he had $8000 in it
01:37 AM rue_mohr: yea
01:37 AM anonnumberanon: by painfully translating japanese with google translate heh
01:37 AM rue_mohr: my projects all have (prettymuch) a $20 budget, the cutoff is 200% of the budget and if its finished, it can have a $20 overhaul or refit project applied
01:37 AM anonnumberanon: but then again Robo-One for instance gives out 10 grand if you win it so ...
01:38 AM anonnumberanon: this guy lost it this year though
01:39 AM anonnumberanon: he probably has the most advanced robot I've seen in this class but it lost from "fight engineering" standpoint
01:39 AM anonnumberanon: i should go watch again how he lost this time
01:39 AM anonnumberanon: i know he won a robo-one a few years ago
01:40 AM anonnumberanon: also it is very unstable when it punches/lunches towards another robot, making me think at that point his IMU is taking a break while the punch move is being carried out
01:40 AM anonnumberanon: which is a shame
01:40 AM rue_mohr: it brings up a good point tho
01:40 AM rue_mohr: machinging things out of billets is MUCH more practical when the things are tuny
01:40 AM rue_mohr: tiny
01:49 AM rue_mohr: hahahah dremel is selling 3d printer filament at home depot for $41/roll
01:49 AM rue_mohr: wait, thats not bad...
01:50 AM rue_mohr: no, wait, they dont say how much it is
01:50 AM rue_mohr: bets its only 1/2kg
01:51 AM rue_mohr: yup, 0.5kg
01:52 AM rue_mohr: home depot is $10 for a filament led bulb, so I should stop stoffing at $4 from china
01:55 AM Jak_o_Shadows: rue, this might break your budget, but if you wanted to do mo-cap for the mecha, the microsoft kinects are going out of production
01:57 AM rue_mohr: nope, needs to be a strap on force feedback suit
02:00 AM Jak_o_Shadows: fair enough
02:01 AM anonnumberanon: hahah scraping is working
02:01 AM anonnumberanon: ~200 pictures
02:03 AM anonnumberanon: I used chrome and the downalbum extension as a quick hack to scrape the Twitter pictures, it gives you a file with all the URLs of the pictures, then just wget -i list.txt
07:21 AM durrf: wow thanks anonnumberanon
07:22 AM durrf: i actually think i might have something like that on hand
07:39 AM squirrel1 is now known as veverak
08:59 AM rue_mohr: anonnumberanon, heh, I have credits to ya in my beacon chooser code
09:00 AM rue_mohr: dont recall if your solution was used, but you were helping work on it
09:16 AM rue_mohr: :))) my point_in_triangle code works!
09:16 AM rue_mohr: well, its a recode of someone elses, but yea
09:31 AM rue_mohr: still working to understand dot and cross products
11:09 AM Snert__ is now known as Snert
06:51 PM rue_mohr: !?!? no comments on that one?
07:18 PM anonnumberanon: rue_mohr awesome lol
07:19 PM anonnumberanon: that was the first time i had to use code that i did not understand
07:21 PM anonnumberanon: I should review this again because a similar challenge got me to fail a job interview :S
07:21 PM veverak: well well well
07:22 PM * veverak is finishing the thesis
07:22 PM veverak: it should have 30 pages (1800 chars per page)
07:22 PM veverak: I have 62
07:22 PM veverak: this is going to be interesting
07:29 PM anonnumberanon: Reading up on cnc routers and mills for aluminum has been quite a sad experience for me 2day
07:30 PM anonnumberanon: >dont do it
07:30 PM anonnumberanon: veverak what subject the thesis?
07:39 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, how so?
07:43 PM veverak: anonnumberanon: development of sotfware for a quadruped robot
07:43 PM veverak: halft is software enginerring, half is acadmic theory on motion planning
07:43 PM veverak: +-
07:43 PM veverak: and I should go to sleep, the characters on the keyboard are moving!
07:45 PM mrdata-: your poetry is so moving
07:47 PM anonnumberanon: Cool veverak
07:47 PM anonnumberanon: Let me proof read it
07:47 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr i found the perfect 6" column today. only problem is i couldn't drag it home
07:47 PM Tom_L: wasn't too long
07:48 PM Tom_L: but it was 1/2" wall thickness and i could barely lift it
07:48 PM veverak: hmmm
07:48 PM anonnumberanon: Rue mohr they all say on forums (Practical Machinist) that it costs thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to build a machine
07:49 PM veverak: anonnumberanon: I will not let you read it yet
07:49 PM anonnumberanon: And $350 for a spindle will get u a crap one
07:49 PM Tom_L: i did get a piece of 4" square for the standoff and i had another thought on it though
07:49 PM veverak: as I have to say that I feel stress on me and got paranoid, I have to check within the university about who I can send it
07:49 PM * veverak got week before it should be sended
07:50 PM veverak: and I _am_ nervous and stressed
07:50 PM Tom_L: since there will be so much 4" left and it's fairly hefty i thought about welding 2 angle iron to the sides to get the width and put the rails on them
07:50 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, depends what you call crap
07:50 PM anonnumberanon: They specifically say no more than 30 pages?
07:50 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, what do you think on that idea?
07:50 PM rue_shop3: if it didn't cost and arm and a leg, and works for what I need it to do, I dont call it crap
07:50 PM veverak: anonnumberanon: they say it should be about 30 pages long
07:51 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, you must want to be augging steel at 40ipm?
07:51 PM veverak: anonnumberanon: however, the study department told me that there is no upper limit
07:51 PM veverak: anonnumberanon: ... but it should be 30 pages long
07:51 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, cool
07:51 PM Tom_L: rue_shop3, should i cad it up or do you see what i mean?
07:51 PM rue_shop3: I think I follow,
07:52 PM Tom_L: i can offset the angle a little to allow for the clearance between the screw and the rails since one is taller than the other
07:52 PM veverak: anonnumberanon: I think I can be critized for this, but the work can not be dismissed
07:52 PM rue_shop3: forward beam on the siders right? just made of the boxbeam now
07:52 PM Tom_L: yeah, i'll do a cad for it
07:52 PM Tom_L: it's all 1/4" angle like 2" square iirc
07:53 PM Tom_L: and i could put triangles behind it for extra support
07:53 PM rue_shop3: :) my is_point_in_triangle code works
07:53 PM Tom_L: if need be
07:53 PM Tom_L: saw that
07:53 PM Tom_L: triangles rock
07:54 PM anonnumberanon: Rue shop i dont care about speed, wanna do aluminum and it must be precise so i can better troubleshoot poor designs and not worry about if the cut is at fault for parts misalignment and things like that
07:54 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, to .01 microns?
07:54 PM rue_shop3: 0.001 microns?
07:55 PM rue_shop3: 0.5nm?
07:55 PM anonnumberanon: That seems supremely accurate. I guess i need something that will play well with average tolerances of gears, bearings, motor casings and screws
07:56 PM rue_shop3: if you go 0.1nm, you can trim the thick hydrogen atoms off the surface of it, and leave the small ones
07:56 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, untill you define that number, nothing matters
07:56 PM rue_shop3: iirc tom is going standard, 0.5 thou
07:56 PM rue_shop3: 1/2000"
07:57 PM rue_shop3: which garuntees 1/1000"
07:58 PM rue_shop3: I'm good with about 2 thou
07:58 PM rue_shop3: I'v had less
07:59 PM anonnumberanon: Veverak if you reduce maybe you can get them to want to read volume 2
07:59 PM anonnumberanon: Rue id like to read up on that
07:59 PM rue_shop3: you just did
07:59 PM rue_shop3: now build a machine, here is a hammer, giddyup
07:59 PM rue_shop3: OO! a todo list!
08:00 PM anonnumberanon: Im not taking a thousand dollar bet before knowing the odds are in my favor :)
08:01 PM rue_shop3: your eggs and chickens are backwards
08:01 PM veverak: anonnumberanon: well, it is written, that is a good state
08:01 PM anonnumberanon: Yep
08:01 PM veverak: tomorrow I will discuss with my supervisor what to do now
08:01 PM rue_shop3: AND if its your first machine, you have SO much to learn that isn't readable, your almost down to about 5% odds of success
08:01 PM veverak: leave it be, put some chapters as attachments or ...
08:02 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, if you want to build a good machine, you have to be a person who builds machines
08:02 PM anonnumberanon: At least i wont struggle with electronics and controls
08:02 PM rue_shop3: and if you dont have money to do it, you have to learn by making cheap machines
08:02 PM rue_shop3: THEY are the school
08:02 PM rue_shop3: not books
08:02 PM rue_shop3: go get some cheap crap and made so,ething move, then improve it
08:03 PM rue_shop3: when you learned the things you didn't know you didn't know, start spending more money
08:03 PM veverak: rue_shop3: exactly!
08:04 PM anonnumberanon: Ok ill start with 3 servos, a $30 drill and and an arduino
08:04 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, by friday, assemble a stepper motor controlled xyz platform from coathanger wire and cardboard
08:04 PM rue_shop3: and hot glue
08:04 PM rue_shop3: here is a fiver, go to it kid.
08:06 PM rue_shop3: its also a thinkiing excersize, if school hasn't destroyed ALL your creativity, you will succeed
08:06 PM rue_shop3: if you fail, you have been successfully sealed in a mental box.
08:06 PM rue_shop3: 4x points if you finish it in 48 hours
08:07 PM rue_shop3: by friday, midnight, you can get a 'pass'
08:08 PM rue_shop3: by saturday, not succeeding will cause you to be put down.
08:08 PM rue_shop3: no pressure.
08:09 PM anonnumberanon: I should plan on parts at door by friday and doing it over the weekend
08:09 PM rue_shop3: no, you should start looking for cardboard now and start straightening coathangers
08:10 PM anonnumberanon: Ur serious?
08:10 PM rue_shop3: yes, you will be quite surprized how much making a cardboard & wire xyz will challange you
08:11 PM rue_shop3: but everything you learn, provided you dont fail and get shot on saturday, will be of incredible value to you on the next version
08:11 PM anonnumberanon: What do you want me to do with hangers? I need basics whats the goal?
08:11 PM rue_shop3: made a cardboard xyz platform
08:11 PM rue_shop3: make...
08:12 PM rue_shop3: go xy on a bed and z on a ... pen(dosn't matter if its anything)
08:12 PM anonnumberanon: Ill need to know what that is, even...
08:12 PM rue_shop3: tolerance needs to be better than 2cm
08:12 PM anonnumberanon: Lol
08:13 PM rue_shop3: its not the point, you will find challanges you didn't expect
08:13 PM rue_shop3: or get shot.
08:13 PM rue_shop3: but I'm sure you wont fail.
08:14 PM rue_shop3: how many stepper motors do you have?
08:14 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Design2.jpg
08:14 PM anonnumberanon: First challenge clearing space in the gRage
08:14 PM anonnumberanon: Garage
08:14 PM Tom_L: that should give it the width it needs
08:14 PM rue_shop3: ah yes
08:14 PM Tom_L: and the 4" column i think will be plenty strong
08:14 PM rue_shop3: mhm
08:14 PM Tom_L: add angle braces on 3 sides of the 4" tube
08:15 PM Tom_L: like i did with the first one
08:15 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_Design.jpg
08:15 PM rue_shop3: will the angle be ridgid enough?
08:15 PM rue_shop3: :) I'm being evil
08:15 PM anonnumberanon: None rue shop but i have a few servos i could quickly convert to constant rotation
08:15 PM Tom_L: i'll weld it and put angle braces behind it
08:15 PM Tom_L: and i can get the offset i need that you see in the 2nd pic
08:15 PM Tom_L: with the risers
08:16 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, do you need some old printers
08:16 PM rue_shop3: get the steppers/drivers
08:16 PM Tom_L: anonnumberanon, ask ichgucklive in #linuxcnc about steppers and drivers
08:16 PM rue_shop3: oh, did you go from 6" to 4" ?
08:16 PM Tom_L: i explained why
08:16 PM Tom_L: above
08:17 PM rue_shop3: ask about free ones, point out your lift is on the line
08:17 PM Tom_L: the perfect piece of 6" tube was 1/2" wall and i couldn't carry it
08:17 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, if you dont have it by tommorow, its taking too long
08:17 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, gotcha
08:17 PM Tom_L: it was about 24" long
08:17 PM Tom_L: these are about 18" long
08:17 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, I have 3 crates behind me full of steppers
08:17 PM anonnumberanon: I have a jerb too
08:18 PM anonnumberanon: Okay but thats not the paint
08:18 PM Tom_L: my ballscrews come tomorrow
08:18 PM anonnumberanon: Point
08:18 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, do yo have a m328 based arduino?
08:19 PM anonnumberanon: Draw me what im supposed to make
08:19 PM Tom_L: who was it here that was scraping metal for a lathe?
08:19 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, no, its part of the test
08:19 PM rue_shop3: remember how I said you have to demonstrate creativity?
08:19 PM Tom_L: anonnumberanon i did draw one
08:19 PM rue_shop3: the rest dosn't matter see
08:19 PM Tom_L: did you look?
08:19 PM anonnumberanon: Ok sure
08:19 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, it just has to move in 3 perpendicular directions
08:20 PM rue_shop3: or even mostly perpendicular
08:20 PM anonnumberanon: No tom ur cad you just posted is not ghetto
08:20 PM Tom_L: yeah rue will write a lib to offset for angular correction :D
08:20 PM anonnumberanon: My challenge is a first ghetto machine
08:20 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_Design.jpg
08:20 PM Tom_L: my first ghetto machine
08:21 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, I'm not trying to help you, but toms design can be made from cardboard too
08:21 PM anonnumberanon: Lol
08:21 PM Tom_L: first thing you _must_ do to succeed is .....
08:21 PM Tom_L: start
08:22 PM rue_shop3: yup
08:22 PM Tom_L: i've revised my plan at least 3 times based on what i have available to me
08:22 PM Tom_L: including tools and material
08:22 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, I'm being nice, I didn't make you post a picture of eyes drawn on a rock
08:22 PM rue_shop3: cause I have faith in ya
08:23 PM Tom_L: who was it here that was scraping metal for a lathe?
08:23 PM Tom_L: where did he go?
08:23 PM rue_shop3: someones working on a lathe, dont remember who tho
08:24 PM Tom_L: he kinda dissappeared
08:24 PM Tom_L: i think i can weld those angles fairly straight and parallel to the column
08:25 PM Tom_L: i hope
08:25 PM rue_shop3: remember, welding pinches the metal into the weld
08:25 PM rue_shop3: -- -> V
08:25 PM anonnumberanon: Last time i checked large printers are better for parts
08:26 PM Tom_L: my bud will skin cut the top flat
08:26 PM rue_shop3: anonnumberanon, multifunction office printers
08:26 PM rue_shop3: but even an inkjet has a motor in it
08:26 PM Tom_L: ever so small
08:27 PM rue_shop3: and odds are that among your 10 neighbours, thre are more than 3 inkjets in a closet they would give away for free
08:28 PM Tom_L: rue_shop3
08:28 PM Tom_L: join the mill build
08:28 PM rue_shop3: :( I cant stay awake
08:28 PM Tom_L: you got lots of scrap around
08:28 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, I dont have rooom
08:28 PM Tom_L: sacrifice one for the better of the rest
08:28 PM rue_shop3: I have a whole box of mill parts, and I beam, and that big channel
08:28 PM rue_shop3: no rooom
08:29 PM Tom_L: i don't have room for this one but it's not stopping me
08:29 PM rue_shop3: I have to clear out the 2nd house livingroom and put a rack in, move the 3d printers to it
08:29 PM Tom_L: so now you have a plan in the right direction...
08:29 PM Tom_L: what's holding you up dude?
08:29 PM rue_shop3: yea, if I do one more project like that now, I cant build anything ever again cause it'll be on the last square foot of bench space
08:30 PM rue_shop3: dont get me wrong, I REALLY want to
08:30 PM Tom_L: i'm gonna have to clear off my steel table to work on this
08:30 PM Tom_L: 1/2" plate table
08:30 PM rue_shop3: there is an I beam sitting beside the table RIGHT NOW
08:31 PM rue_shop3: with a bunch of chalk writing on it
08:31 PM Tom_L: square is stronger
08:31 PM Tom_L: i'm sad i couldn't get that 6" piece but it was just too heavy
08:31 PM rue_shop3: for 1mm bits, this is plenty strong
08:31 PM Tom_L: and they won't cut anything
08:31 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:31 PM Tom_L: takes forever though
08:32 PM rue_shop3: the bit is the limit for me
08:32 PM Tom_L: and i recall you counting life days a few days ago
08:32 PM rue_shop3: I still am
08:32 PM Tom_L: so make a better bit holder
08:32 PM Tom_L: and get a bigger bit
08:32 PM rue_shop3: its not the holder, its the bit
08:32 PM Tom_L: i can send you bits
08:32 PM rue_shop3: cant feed a 1mm bit thru aliminum faster than ... 10mm/min?
08:33 PM Tom_L: probably not
08:34 PM Tom_L: depends how fast you spin it
08:34 PM Tom_L: it's all about chip load
08:34 PM anonnumberanon: Free nice microwave should i go get it?
08:34 PM Tom_L: no
08:35 PM anonnumberanon: https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/zip/d/over-range-stainless/6407890448.html
08:35 PM anonnumberanon: Ok
08:35 PM Tom_L: few if any microwave parts will fit on a mill
08:35 PM anonnumberanon: I can use that computer case i salvaged las week
08:36 PM anonnumberanon: I found out they stripped it from all its components the entire time i thought i was a complete tower lol
08:38 PM anonnumberanon: This any good? Canon PC921 Copier
08:41 PM anonnumberanon: Last question is there salvageable stuff i can repurpose as the actual router motor/spindle?
08:43 PM anonnumberanon: I probably need to build a workbench fist
08:44 PM anonnumberanon: Buy circular saw and get free wood
08:45 PM anonnumberanon: I used to be a hand tools guy but then i took an arrow to productivity
09:02 PM AchiestDragon: rue_shop3: http://www.waybuilder.net/free-ed/Resources/Trades/Indust/machinist01/pics/ch04.h1.gif cant find a decent metric chart
09:11 PM AchiestDragon: 1mm 18336 rpm feed rate 0.0381mm per revolution of bit 10mm 3054 rpm with a feed rate 0.1524mm per revoluton on aluminium
09:13 PM AchiestDragon: for all hss drill bits
09:16 PM AchiestDragon: you can cut slower but not faster than that table , as it goes with the hss drill bit cuting angle , so tring to go faster would be more like trying to punch a hole rather than drill it , and that table assumes the bit is not blunt
09:18 PM AchiestDragon: working outside those figures results in worn bits and rough holes ,
09:18 PM rue_shop3: AchiestDragon, but what length 1mm bit is that for, it matters
09:20 PM AchiestDragon: all , if drilling deep holes you need to remove the bit from the hole frequently and re instert it so that it does not clog
09:22 PM AchiestDragon: ho working with some materials like pcbs if yout drill a hole at 1mm then try to widen it to 1.2mm it will always result in a broken drill bit because fiberglass pcbs grab the bit and tend to snap it ( widen by hand on pcbs if you values the drill bit )
09:24 PM Tom_L: https://www.kennametal.com/en/resources/engineering-calculators.html
09:24 PM AchiestDragon: depth of each is before retracting is about the lenth of the dia of the bit and should be fine , coolant on anything hole thats as deeper than its wide recomended
09:25 PM Tom_L: it's up for debate but rule of thumb is 2/3 diameter depth of cut
09:28 PM Tom_L: https://www.dapra.com/tech/dloads/Dapra-Metric-Series-English.pdf
09:28 PM AchiestDragon: and something like https://content.zoro.co.uk/images/854_854/g/jeeps/540/ken5401350k.jpg with eather coolant or use car engine oil if you need to apply coolant manualy works well
09:28 PM Tom_L: that's mostly for insert cutters
09:29 PM Tom_L: for years i've collected oil from empty cans to fill mine
09:29 PM Tom_L: right now the catch can is almost half full
09:30 PM Tom_L: just from drips that didn't make it into the engine
09:30 PM Tom_L: oh and btw, the catch can is a cardboard 1 qt oil can you had to pierce with a filler
09:33 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/i/181663269183?chn=ps
09:33 PM Tom_L: vintage.. haha
09:44 PM AchiestDragon: its a good idea to mark your used oil collant can and the type of oil thats in it ,, mixing sinthetic oil and none sinthetic motor oil can result in a congeald almost grease like mass rather than something smooth and runny
09:47 PM Tom_L: yeah i know
09:47 PM Tom_L: i mark everything
09:54 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, , dont get me wrong tho, I'v made a controller and a pendant for the new machine
09:54 PM rue_shop3: I need to make a spindle regulator too
09:58 PM AchiestDragon: one of the main failings of a lot of home made cnc routers is feed rates , especialy those that use fixed speed demill type spindles ,, if the speeds too fast and the feed not right the stresses are one of the main reason they often get stepper skip
10:04 PM AchiestDragon: you sould be have a spinlde that you can set the speed from the gcode
10:08 PM AchiestDragon: nothing worse than having done 7 or 8 manual tool changes on a peace and forgetting to
10:11 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Design2.jpg
10:11 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Design2_top.jpg
10:11 PM Tom_L: i'll trim the back 2 braces
10:12 PM Tom_L: or make the base a bit wider
10:16 PM Tom_L: fixed...
10:16 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Design_2back.jpg
10:17 PM AchiestDragon: how tall is it
10:17 PM Tom_L: about 18"
10:19 PM AchiestDragon: i would at least be tempted to use angle section on the back ile the front to make it a bit more rigid reducing z twist and less x y direction flex
10:20 PM AchiestDragon: its why they use cast iron on commertial machines
10:20 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:20 PM AchiestDragon: and even that can flex
10:21 PM Tom_L: everything flexes, just a matter of what is acceptable
10:22 PM Tom_L: i wish i could have drug home the 6" tube i saw today but it was too heavy
10:22 PM Tom_L: 1/2" wall about 24" long
10:23 PM Tom_L: and too hard to work with given the tools i have
10:28 PM AchiestDragon: know how you feel , remember seeing some nice 200mm *300mm aluninium H beem like 20 mm thick at the local scrap yard , many years ago they used to get lots of offcuts of it , but the place that used to weigh in those off cuts closed so there arnt any more
10:31 PM AchiestDragon: a company that used to make industrial food processing machines , so scrap like you would get from a company making steel industrial units but they used aluminium for almost everything
10:34 PM AchiestDragon: well happy here sort of , will be able to afford to order my 3d printer on wensday
10:34 PM AchiestDragon: not happy as its not wensday yet
10:34 PM AchiestDragon: :)
10:34 PM Tom_L: i found a linear rail with skate in the mud at the scrap yard once
10:35 PM Tom_L: i was sad then too
10:36 PM AchiestDragon: well 6 or 7 years back , cant now health issues ,
10:37 PM Tom_L: my linear rails and ballscrews arrive tomorrow
10:37 PM Tom_L: i hope
10:40 PM AchiestDragon: is it worth getting TL-Smoother modules , do they do as they say they do , anyone any experiance of them
10:41 PM rue_mohr: armyofevilrobots, we have two people building cnc machines
10:41 PM rue_mohr: hows your upgrade going?
10:43 PM rue_mohr: armyofevilrobots, oh oh oh, and I got code working for is_point_in_triangle
11:26 PM rue_mohr: https://faraday.physics.utoronto.ca/PVB/Harrison/Flash/Vectors/CrossProduct/CrossProduct.html
11:27 PM rue_mohr: THAT assures I know what cross product does!
11:27 PM rue_mohr: sweet
11:27 PM rue_mohr: so, if the cross products are opposeite, the lines cross
11:28 PM rue_mohr: if equal, their the same slope...
11:28 PM rue_mohr: ew, thats evil
11:30 PM rue_mohr: ok so, if your testing a point to be in or out of a polygon, and it lies on, for example, the same Y as a horizontal line segment, are you in or out of the polygon at that point?
11:30 PM rue_mohr: I suppose it has to be redefined
11:30 PM rue_mohr: are you on the polygon
11:30 PM rue_mohr: aka, the edges count
11:31 PM rue_mohr: that screws things up
11:32 PM rue_mohr: if you have a line segment on the same y as the ray testing if p in inside or outside the polygon, then the answer depends on if the next segment turns up or down
11:33 PM rue_mohr: HOWEVER, by definition of being ON the polygon, the test ray is invalidated, your on the polygon
11:33 PM rue_mohr: only if p is on that line segment
11:33 PM rue_mohr: otherwise your screwed