#robotics Logs
Nov 25 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:01 AM rue_mohr: in theroy, for the alteara cpld's I'd be looking for a compiler?
12:04 AM rue_mohr: alteara is intel?
12:04 AM Tom_L: no idea
12:04 AM Tom_L: not that i'm aware of
12:06 AM rue_mohr: china just dosn't do xilinx stuff
12:06 AM rue_mohr: there are chips, but their playing with alteara
12:10 AM rue_mohr: my other hangup with the xilinx is working out how to hook one up to a programmer
12:54 AM rue_mohr: I think I found everything
12:54 AM rue_mohr: http://www.hackshed.co.uk/getting-started-with-cplds-index/
12:54 AM rue_mohr: this looks good
01:12 AM rue_mohr: red light, its all 64 bit, I'm running 32 bit
01:12 AM rue_mohr: why is it 64 bit?
01:14 AM rue_mohr: oh duh, it'll be because it needs more than 2G of ram at once
01:14 AM rue_mohr: oh bloatware
02:00 AM rue_shop3: hmm, the printer should probably have its speed set so that 100% generates the best quality print, speed it up if you want faster, live with what you get
02:15 AM rue_shop3: found it, I commented out important lines of the cod
02:15 AM rue_shop3: e
04:20 AM rue_mohr: hahaha I accidently keep ordering lm393 lots
04:20 AM rue_mohr: I have like 400 comming now
06:05 AM Tom_L: rue
06:05 AM Tom_L: http://www.xess.com/projects/
06:08 AM Tom_L: http://www.asic-world.com/verilog/veritut.html
06:09 AM Tom_L: https://opencores.org/projects
06:18 AM rue_shop3: Tom_L, programmer hardware
06:18 AM rue_shop3: my problem is programmer hardware
06:19 AM AchiestDragon: jtag dongle
06:19 AM rue_shop3: no 2 jtag are the same
06:19 AM rue_shop3: you cant just take any jtag adapter and use it on anything that requires jtag
06:20 AM rue_shop3: not to my experiance
06:20 AM rue_shop3: and I dont know what hardware is supported by the available software
06:20 AM rue_shop3: its frustrating
06:21 AM rue_shop3: hah, I'm feeling drowsy, but its 4am
06:21 AM rue_shop3: arg
06:21 AM AchiestDragon: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/C8051F-MCU-Emulator-U-EC6-USB-Debug-Adapter-JTAG-C2-Mode-with-Cable/281861263288? the pinouts are usual dependand on board but you can make a cable to suite what matters is jtag voltage support
06:22 AM rue_shop3: if I figure out altera, I can buy a completel kit from china for under $20
06:23 AM rue_shop3: thats marked as an 8051 jtag, I'v got no idea if it works on xilinx or if the xilinx software supports it
06:23 AM rue_shop3: I'm not gonna blow $22 on it
06:24 AM rue_shop3: I got a copy of the altera software, but its 64 bit
06:24 AM rue_shop3: I dont ahve any 64 bit linux machines set up
06:24 AM AchiestDragon: tck jtag clock , tms select , tdi data in tdo data oout a bit like spi with gnd and a vcc that may need to be 1.2 ,1.5 , 2.5 or 3.3v 5v depending on the chip
06:25 AM rue_shop3: ok, and will the software I'm using recognize the programmer?
06:25 AM rue_shop3: I made a parallel port jtag adapter
06:25 AM rue_shop3: I think the one for the stm32 is jtag
06:26 AM rue_shop3: do you see the issue?
06:26 AM rue_shop3: yaaaay, I found the esp8266
06:27 AM AchiestDragon: you will have to install the software to find out what programmers it supports , you may be able to use the stm32 one if that can support the same voltage as the cpld/fpga
06:27 AM rue_shop3: its about the ide supporting the programmer hardware
06:27 AM rue_shop3: I'm pretty sure nobody is going to want to recognize anyone
06:28 AM AchiestDragon: as is ususal
06:29 AM AchiestDragon: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/altera-Mini-Usb-Blaster-Cable-For-CPLD-FPGA-NIOS-JTAG-Altera-Programmer/141694351041?
06:29 AM rue_shop3: yea, china does altera, tom does xilinx
06:29 AM AchiestDragon: 2.39
06:30 AM rue_shop3: I have the xlinx software installed, the altera software I got is 64bit and I cant install it
06:30 AM rue_shop3: I can dig thru old versions, look for 32 bit
06:30 AM AchiestDragon: does the altera software have schematic capture to vhld or is it all vhdl/verilog programming ?
06:31 AM rue_shop3: maybe I'd know if I could install it
06:31 AM rue_shop3: pls tell me
06:33 AM AchiestDragon: aparantly ftp://ftp.altera.com/up/pub/Tutorials/DE2/Digital_Logic/tut_quartus_intro_schem.pdf but it was an addon a couple of years back
06:35 AM AchiestDragon: do they have a free linux version of there s/w rue_shop3 ?
06:36 AM rue_shop3: yup
06:36 AM AchiestDragon: i dont want to dig out the old xp laptop just to do cpld's /fpgas
06:46 AM AchiestDragon: downloading ...
06:47 AM rue_shop3: iirc about 2.5G
06:47 AM AchiestDragon: it may save me having to switch to arm asm and programming up stm32's ,,,
06:48 AM AchiestDragon: 6.1G 24 mins
06:48 AM rue_shop3: it must be java, cause they must be loading it all into ram after decompressing it
06:48 AM rue_shop3: also, the first 2G file is reapeated twice
06:56 AM AchiestDragon: ok by not using a servo i have to do the servo position sensor loop , so rather than having a pot for position since im using a liniear design , i put an optical slot sensor counting the number of turns of the leadscrew , and going to use another 2 for end stop detection
06:59 AM AchiestDragon: so what i should be able to do is just clock a counter with the pulses from the sensor eather up or down depending on what way the motor is beeing driven and since its .5mm per turn over 60 mm get a relativly acurate 0 to 240 .5mm position step counter (8bits )
06:59 AM rue_mohr: from china, a tiny10 is about the same price as an mega8
07:01 AM rue_mohr: AchiestDragon, you hsould know your better off making a limit switch by having a "flag" that blocks an interrupter for the last half of the stroke
07:01 AM rue_mohr: when you start up, by looing at if its blocked or not, you know which way to go to get to the edge,
07:01 AM AchiestDragon: put a 8 bit needed pos regiser ie goto this pos register and a 8 bit comparitor then you got the basis of a pll loop in logic for generating the up down direction
07:01 AM rue_mohr: when you find the edge, you preset to that position ont eh counter
07:02 AM rue_mohr: rue, I put a dollar on him not having heard what you just said
07:02 AM rue_mohr: he heard it, your on
07:02 AM rue_mohr: I'm going to win
07:02 AM rue_mohr: no, he's familiar with industrial gear, he knows what I'm talking about
07:03 AM rue_mohr: if he heard it, he disn't understand a bit of it
07:03 AM rue_mohr: he knows this, he's gonn ack any min now
07:03 AM AchiestDragon: now theres a couple of neet tricks , that i need to do , firstly slow the motor down when the two values are close , and second have the rate based on how far it needs to travel in a given time so it can sync with others
07:03 AM rue_mohr: I win
07:04 AM rue_mohr: not yet, there are several contexts there
07:04 AM rue_mohr: give up, I win
07:04 AM rue_mohr: not yet
07:05 AM rue_mohr: if your not going to give up, why dont you waste more effort and tell him about the lienar interpolator too?
07:05 AM rue_mohr: I'll wait, he's gonna say something about it real soon
07:05 AM rue_mohr: you mean like 'oh yea, I dont need 2 limit switches, thanks rue'?
07:05 AM rue_mohr: maybe
07:06 AM rue_mohr: no, your a hopeless dreamer
07:06 AM rue_mohr: he'll get it
07:06 AM rue_mohr: besides, you got the wrong person
07:06 AM rue_mohr: WHAT!?
07:06 AM rue_mohr: yea,
07:06 AM rue_mohr: but.... but....
07:07 AM rue_mohr: yea, its evilroot your thinking of
07:07 AM rue_mohr: oh F***
07:07 AM rue_mohr: gimme your dollar
07:07 AM AchiestDragon: i could get away with one , but 2 for calibration as the usable lenght may vary
07:07 AM rue_mohr: ok, but you cheated.
07:07 AM rue_mohr: see he has no idea what you were talking about
07:08 AM rue_mohr: maybe he'll read it again, I may have lost the bet, but theres still some hope
07:08 AM rue_mohr: gnight
07:08 AM rue_mohr: gngiht
07:08 AM AchiestDragon: nn
07:08 AM rue_mohr: uh rue?
07:08 AM rue_mohr: yea?
07:08 AM rue_mohr: where is my blanket
07:08 AM rue_mohr: in the dryer, its still drying...
07:09 AM rue_mohr: oh foo.
07:15 AM AchiestDragon: you thinking im someone else rue_mohr ?
07:16 AM rue_bed: YOU COST ME A DOLLAR!, GNIGHT!
07:17 AM AchiestDragon: i used to be op for ##microcontrolers been a few years since iv been in chat
08:01 AM AchiestDragon: no need 2 end stops , following resons , 1 when the carrages passes the end stop ( initalising end ) it may over shoot , the end stop detect will also engage motor breaking , to stop the motor going futher , , it should then run back in slow mode till it just clears that endstop detection , and then resets the counter , the other end is used to get the travel limit and is basicaly juse an emergancy stop motor brake, if i used
08:01 AM AchiestDragon: micro switches for them it would work as a failsafe
08:04 AM AchiestDragon: as it could phisicaly engage motor breaking and prevent further travel in that direction case of software fail / or position counter sensor error
10:21 AM AchiestDragon: well quartus prime light (free no licence needed ) version installs but only as 30 day trial even though its suposed to be the free unlimited version
10:23 AM AchiestDragon: and dose appear to have sch to vhdl but no use to me if its only ever limited to 30days
10:40 AM _sol_ is now known as Solgriffin
11:09 AM climbing_up: Is there a guide somewhere for designing 3D printed parts with holes for screws? I don't know much about fasteners or 3D printing
11:16 AM climbing_up: e.g., for an M3 screw, how wide should the hole be for the screw to pass through? 3 millimeters?
12:04 PM Snert: I would measure the screw diameter with calipers.
12:13 PM climbing_up: It's not standardized? I was hoping to avoid buying calipers :)
12:13 PM rue_mohr: well, to makea 3mm hole, doyou have to make the hole 3mm + nozzel size ?
12:14 PM rue_mohr: aka if you have a .5mm nozzel, you probably need to make a 3.5mm hole to GET a 3mm hole
12:14 PM rue_mohr: its a mistake in clic3r, they have the nozzel positioned over the circle, not on the outside of it
12:15 PM rue_mohr: it should be provable if you set up for a machine with a huge nozzel
12:15 PM rue_mohr: need to try that one day
12:15 PM rue_mohr: they have a lot of excuses
12:15 PM climbing_up: Oh I never even thought about the nozzle. I've never 3D printed anything before
12:16 PM rue_mohr: ah
12:17 PM rue_mohr: I can show you how I design objects, but its not like anyone else does
12:17 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr how big is your print area?
12:18 PM Tom_L: might print a pulley cover
12:18 PM Tom_L: might weld one up
12:18 PM Tom_L: time will tell
12:18 PM climbing_up: I'm just trying to make a very basic tripod mount. A credit card sized slab with One hole for the standard camera tripod screw (+ nut retainer) and 4 holes that allow M3 screws to pass into camera case
12:19 PM climbing_up: This seemed like a good simple project to start with, I just haven't figured out the exact dimensions yet
12:20 PM Tom_L: cad is good at that
12:21 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, did you ever put any of theose t10 to work?
12:21 PM Tom_L: t10 what?
12:21 PM rue_mohr: tiny10
12:21 PM Tom_L: just to test my programmers
12:21 PM rue_mohr: :)
12:21 PM Tom_L: 16bit timer
12:21 PM rue_mohr: I have an idea, but its kinda funny, the T10 costs same at mega8
12:22 PM Tom_L: adc
12:22 PM Tom_L: i think
12:22 PM Tom_L: you can program it in c now though
12:22 PM Tom_L: before it was just asm
12:23 PM rue_mohr: :) I used to get gcc to assemble C, and then hand adjust
12:23 PM Tom_L: yeah
12:24 PM Tom_L: screws ever work loose on your steel tube mill?
12:25 PM rue_mohr: nop
12:25 PM rue_mohr: e
12:26 PM Tom_L: need to figure out a spindle mount to mount the sherline spindle to it now
12:27 PM Tom_L: don't wanna mod the sherline parts
12:27 PM rue_mohr: its just a 4 bolt plate mount
12:28 PM rue_mohr: isn't it?
12:28 PM Tom_L: i think mine has a center stud that a grub screw clamps to on a taper to pull it tight with a keyway to keep it square
12:30 PM Tom_L: http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/images/products/detail/702140adaptor.jpg
12:31 PM Tom_L: looks like somebody made one
12:31 PM rue_mohr: ! oh
12:32 PM Tom_L: over complicated
12:32 PM rue_mohr: I dont think the one I have tilts that way
12:32 PM Tom_L: but lets you tilt the head
01:13 PM rue_shop3: yup, tilt on this one is fied
01:13 PM rue_shop3: fixed
01:15 PM Tom_L: if i thought i could, i'd get a block and make a new spindle housing for it
01:15 PM Tom_L: afraid it's a little past my capacity here
01:37 PM robotustra: Tom_L == Tom Lipton?
01:39 PM rue_shop3: yea, of lipton soup, he's famous
01:40 PM robotustra: MrCurious, hi
01:45 PM MrCurious: hi!
01:56 PM evilroot: Dah fuq?
03:20 PM Tom_L: robotustra no
03:27 PM Tom_L: robotustra, i did get my rails ordered
03:42 PM MrCurious: tom_l what you making?
03:44 PM MrCurious: …with the rails
03:59 PM robotustra: he is doing cnc mill
04:00 PM robotustra: MrCurious, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/
04:00 PM robotustra: MrCurious, u speak like russian :)
04:01 PM MrCurious: i can see
04:36 PM Tom_L: MrCurious, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Stepper_mounts.jpg
07:31 PM robotustra: well, connected the spindle to VFD
07:31 PM robotustra: it starts the spindle slowly
07:31 PM robotustra: don't know why
07:31 PM Tom_L: parameters wrong?
07:33 PM Tom_L: never messed with one but don't the VFD have settings you can modify?
07:33 PM robotustra: there are a lot of settings in here
07:34 PM robotustra: the prevoius VFD and Spindle do not have resistor
07:34 PM Tom_L: is that for a brake?
07:34 PM robotustra: I mean potenciometer
07:35 PM Tom_L: oh
07:35 PM robotustra: this one has a pot on the front pannel
07:35 PM robotustra: the spindle on my cnc mill starts 3-5 seconds from 0 to 7200
07:36 PM robotustra: this one starts from 0 to 6000 about 10 sec
07:36 PM robotustra: and it's pretty warm
07:36 PM robotustra: it's air colled
07:36 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:38 PM robotustra: the problem may be in 50-60 hz
07:39 PM robotustra: the VFD is for 50 hz
07:39 PM robotustra: but previous I got was for 50 Hz also, I did some setup and it was of for 60 hz
07:45 PM Tom_L: better fix that
07:45 PM Tom_L: before something bad happens
07:45 PM Tom_L: which are you on?
07:45 PM Tom_L: 50 or 60 hz?
07:46 PM Tom_L: might explain why it's hot
07:48 PM robotustra: 60
08:19 PM Jak_o_Shadows: all the ights extended to the place where they will join
08:19 PM Jak_o_Shadows: plug in
08:19 PM Tom_L: just remember
08:19 PM MrCurious: Tom_L nice
08:19 PM Tom_L: you need to take them all down afterwards
08:20 PM Tom_L: MrCurious thanks
08:20 PM MrCurious: will you be using freecad devel and CNC.js to do pathing and drive it
08:20 PM MrCurious: my mill uses tinyg controler, and i use the aforementioned tools to drive it
08:20 PM Tom_L: linuxcnc
08:20 PM MrCurious: i use linuxcnc dressup in freecad
08:21 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Control2.jpg
08:21 PM Tom_L: there's the control
08:21 PM MrCurious: but the cool kids are using smoothie boards and tinyg as they are better at timing than linuxcnc
08:21 PM Jak_o_Shadows: I should elarn freecad
08:21 PM Tom_L: i've got cad cam already
08:21 PM MrCurious: if you have cam solved, then you are set
08:22 PM Tom_L: smoothie have amps on it?
08:23 PM Tom_L: i've been using linuxcnc a while
08:24 PM Tom_L: i doubt tinyg has the current to drive these steppers
08:24 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/StepperMount1.jpg
08:26 PM Tom_L: 2.5A
08:27 PM Tom_L: mine are 5A
08:27 PM MrCurious: it might :)
08:27 PM Tom_L: at 48v
08:27 PM Tom_L: no
08:27 PM Tom_L: i'm using gecko drivers
08:27 PM Tom_L: good for ~80v 7A
08:28 PM MrCurious: hmmm, you are probably on the right path then
08:28 PM Tom_L: i'm using the control on my sherline right now
08:28 PM Tom_L: i built it with this in mind
08:29 PM Tom_L: the transformers are overkill but they were surplus
08:29 PM Tom_L: ~18A 48v in all
08:29 PM Tom_L: i could probably run the whole thing off one
08:31 PM Tom_L: i'm in this as much for the build as the use of it afterwards
09:34 PM robotustra: hmm, I'll need to make water cooling to this guy anyway
10:29 PM rue_shop3: ok I have the esp8266 taking a data stream
10:29 PM rue_shop3: now I just have to get it into the robot
10:33 PM rue_shop3: so, at what continious baud rate do you think a network/wifi connection saturates?
10:33 PM Tom_L: arduino lib?
10:33 PM rue_shop3: yea I modified the arduino example of wifi telnet client
10:33 PM rue_shop3: it uses 2 serial ports, the usb one it reports status on, the other it uses as a data stream port
10:34 PM Tom_L: hard to get goin?
10:34 PM rue_shop3: no
10:34 PM rue_shop3: with a bit of patching (easy) the arduino ide will write to an esp8266
10:34 PM MrCurious: .clear
10:34 PM MrCurious: CNC question. anyone have exp going from eagle to pcb pathing on a mill?
10:35 PM rue_shop3: there is a cam processor
10:35 PM Tom_L: eagle will do a path
10:35 PM MrCurious: pcb2gcode?
10:35 PM Tom_L: something like that yes
10:35 PM rue_shop3: I'v never done it
10:35 PM Tom_L: it's a ulp
10:36 PM Tom_L: and it's been ages since i looked at it
11:58 PM MrCurious: anyone used this? http://flatfab.com/