#robotics Logs
Nov 24 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:07 AM anonnumberanon: "Must be the RC between 9 and 11" what?
12:10 AM rue_mohr: DID YOU CLICK THE DAMN LINK!?!?!?!
12:10 AM rue_mohr: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:10 AM anonnumberanon: I read everything.
12:10 AM rue_mohr: DID YOU SEE TEH SCHEMATIC
12:10 AM rue_mohr: OF THE SERVO
12:10 AM rue_mohr: THE SCHEMATIC
12:10 AM rue_mohr: WITHT EH PINS
12:10 AM rue_mohr: OF THE SERVO
12:10 AM rue_mohr: DID YOU SEe!?!
12:10 AM anonnumberanon: Brb
12:45 AM anonnumberanon: What are you suggesting?
01:10 AM mrdata_: what link? what schematic?
01:10 AM * mrdata_ reads back
01:12 AM mrdata_: oh, hobby servos
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM mrdata_: i made a nice servo controller from an NE555 timer
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
01:13 AM mrdata_: got it; please stop
01:13 AM rue_mohr: mrdata_, hard to reacreate cause of how unstable that 555 circuit is
01:13 AM rue_mohr: DID YOU CLICK THE DAMN LINK!?!?!?!
01:13 AM rue_mohr: DID YOU CLICK IT!!!
01:13 AM mrdata_: i did
01:14 AM mrdata_: please remain calm
01:15 AM rue_mohr: I'm sorry, your an ai, you cant do this
01:15 AM mrdata_: the timer isnt unstable; but capacitors are usually 20% tolerance, so getting that right was a chore; i ended up wiring 3 caps in parallel of decreasing size before i got it tuned right. a microcontroller supplying the timing pulses should be eassier to reproduce
01:15 AM rue_mohr: I have a completely stable tiny13 code
01:15 AM mrdata_: good
01:16 AM rue_mohr: runs 2 channels with an 8 pin dip
01:16 AM rue_mohr: just like the 8 pin 555 dip
01:16 AM rue_mohr: but runs 2 servos
01:18 AM mrdata_: cool
01:20 AM anonnumberanon: Ok i reread
01:20 AM anonnumberanon: Done
01:20 AM anonnumberanon: I cant answer the power question
01:21 AM mrdata_: oh, my circuit jittered until i added an RC filter
01:22 AM mrdata_: to decouple the motor from the control
01:42 AM rue_mohr: I could just say GLLALGALALGLAGLALGAKGAKLGALGAKGAKGGLLGCLGCLGHAC and throw a cat or two at you, it would have the same effect
01:43 AM rue_mohr: mrdata_, have a tiny13?
01:43 AM rue_mohr: or a tiny85?
01:45 AM mrdata_: no but atmel technology is never far away; there is a drawer of various mpus at the local maker space
01:45 AM mrdata_: i played with the atmega328 awhile back
01:46 AM rue_mohr: the tiny13 and 85 are just 8 pins
01:46 AM rue_mohr: the same size as a 555
01:46 AM mrdata_: yes
01:46 AM Jak_o_Shadows: rue, as i've never looked into it, with the 4017's, all you do is pulse faster, with clocks between pulses?
01:46 AM rue_mohr: but you can operate 2 servos
01:46 AM rue_mohr: Jak_o_Shadows, no
01:47 AM Jak_o_Shadows: ok. What do you do?
01:47 AM rue_mohr: a rising edge moves you to activating the next servo
01:48 AM Jak_o_Shadows: oh. So the clock does all the work?
01:48 AM rue_mohr: just pulse on interrupt
01:49 AM rue_mohr: http://paste.debian.net/997332/
01:50 AM Jak_o_Shadows: I like line 227 :P
01:50 AM rue_mohr: I'm sorry I dont think I have a cleaner avr example
01:51 AM rue_mohr: <- experience.
01:51 AM Jak_o_Shadows: the stm32 stuff is reasonably clear to me.
01:51 AM rue_mohr: SO much initialization...
01:53 AM rue_mohr: thats the 32, er, I mean 24 channel controller for my hexapod
01:54 AM rue_mohr: of course you dont need the 4017, cause you can use the DMA with a table of moving bits as one.
01:54 AM Jak_o_Shadows: That's using a different external chip?
01:54 AM rue_mohr: no external chip
01:54 AM rue_mohr: you run out of io fast
01:56 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Yeah. How does that work? Surely you need a separate pin for each servo?
01:56 AM rue_mohr: yes
01:56 AM rue_mohr: but not with the 4017
01:56 AM rue_mohr: just 2 per 10 servos
01:56 AM rue_mohr: but I kept it to 8
01:56 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Easier to make the board?
01:57 AM rue_mohr: mostly cause of a mental block regarding the time between reset and the first servo
01:57 AM rue_mohr: lots of folk dont want to use slave chips
01:57 AM rue_mohr: so, whatever
01:58 AM rue_mohr: its like, to control a servo for testing, you COULD set up a 555, find all the right cap and resistor values, tune it etc etc, OR just use a tiny13, have no caps and resistors, and get 2 channels
01:59 AM rue_mohr: and the tiny13 code will work the same on every tiny13, no muffing with unstable voltages or RC variances
02:03 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Ignoring a few things, like proper timings, it'll look a bit like http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=120595 ? It goes low for a teensy amount of time between each servo - which is enough time for the 4017 to go to the next input
02:05 AM Jak_o_Shadows: oh. I get what you mean by 8. If you want a rate of 60Hz, that's only 16.7ms to fit all your (up to 2ms) pulses in
08:40 AM rue_bed: Jak_o_Shadows, diagram is wrong, its edge triggered, see CD4017 datasheet
08:59 AM rue_mohr: rising edge
09:09 AM rue_mohr: I'm wasting my breath, BUT
09:09 AM rue_mohr: a rising edge on the 4017 clock line starts the next servos pulse, and else the pulse of the last one
09:11 AM rue_mohr: so, I didn't use output 0, when I'm ready to restart, I pulse reset low, then let the timer that I have operating the clock line finish a short period, which then selects the first servo, after that, the interrupt carries the timer thu all the servo intervals, it dwells on the 9th while it works itself back out again
09:12 AM rue_mohr: you could also use a ls595, but not reloading all the bits in every period, but just shifting a 1 thru them all
09:13 AM rue_mohr: and refreshing the ouputs when your ready for it to start the next servo pulse
09:14 AM rue_mohr: could also use a 74ls16x shift register
09:17 AM rue_mohr: hey rue
09:18 AM rue_mohr: what
09:18 AM rue_mohr: you could also use a 74ls138 and let the dma do the counting
09:18 AM rue_mohr: well yes, or for that matter a 74154?
09:18 AM rue_mohr: er, the 16 output one, yea...
09:19 AM rue_mohr: wait a min
09:19 AM rue_mohr: what
09:19 AM rue_mohr: outputs backwards
09:19 AM rue_mohr: yea, you would hav to invert it
09:23 AM AchiestDragon: why not use a cpld and have it replace the 4017,ls595 and ls16x allong with the 138 and still have just about enough gates left to do a knightrider type led drive so you got a cool looking status also :)
09:24 AM rue_mohr: their more expensive
09:25 AM rue_mohr: by a lot
09:25 AM rue_mohr: a cd4017 is 9c ea
09:26 AM rue_mohr: 7c for a soic
09:27 AM rue_mohr: a soic 74hc595 is about 4c
09:31 AM rue_mohr: I dont see cpld's for under $10 ea
09:31 AM AchiestDragon: £1.11 https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Intel-Altera/EPM3032ALC44-10N/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuJNuO2s1hGZPESq8W5eU3Hpd27hv8YNXM%3d
09:33 AM rue_mohr: $2 ea, ok
09:33 AM rue_mohr: your still about 50x the cost of one of the other chips
09:34 AM AchiestDragon: im more miffed that there end of life so not sutable for new designs
09:34 AM rue_mohr: maybe 13x if you can get it to do 4
09:34 AM rue_mohr: I'd love to start playing with cpld and fpga
09:35 AM AchiestDragon: depends what your doing they can replace a lot of 40xx and ls series stuff down to one chip and are flash reprogramable if you want to change the fucntion ,
09:35 AM rue_mohr: oh so late for leaving for work!...
09:36 AM robotustra: what does software and learning time to make cpld working properly?
09:36 AM robotustra: what is the cost of the equipment?
09:37 AM robotustra: it may be way to higher than 50x
09:37 AM robotustra: when you do it the first time
09:38 AM AchiestDragon: i used to do schematic capture to hdl ising ise wepack for the xilinx cplds so draw diagram , flash to chip using a chap jtag dongle
09:39 AM robotustra: what is the cost of the software?
09:39 AM robotustra: 0?
09:39 AM AchiestDragon: free
09:40 AM robotustra: what about learning curve?
09:41 AM AchiestDragon: the ise4 webpack from xilinx , if you use there chips , but you have to register , altera ans latice used to be a pain with licencing but apparantly you can get free limited versions
09:41 AM robotustra: is it windows tools?
09:41 AM AchiestDragon: if you can use a pcb schmatic editor then a couple of days
09:42 AM robotustra: couple of days - how much in hours?
09:42 AM robotustra: 4 or 16?
09:43 AM robotustra: two full days - it's a lot
09:43 AM robotustra: and the toolchain you are talking about is for windows?
09:44 AM AchiestDragon: depends how knolagable you ae on logic design and limits , readh teh data sheet on a cpld ? hrs and a couple getting to grips with the software flow 2 days with the bits you should have something working at the end of it
09:47 AM AchiestDragon: they do the ise webpack for windows or linux , but the linux version was flaky when i last tried that was like 4-5 years back
09:47 AM robotustra: that's what I tlod, the learning curve for cpld is too steep
09:49 AM robotustra: I would like to learn how to use cplds and fpga's but I still don't tuch this area just because I'll spend a month before I'll get something working
09:50 AM AchiestDragon: if you can sit with the ttl ls or hc series data sheets and draw a logic schmatic with software that has scematic capture then the luring curve is fast if you take the long rout and learn how to code it as vhdl / verilog or other hdl script it can take quite a while
09:53 AM robotustra: that's it I would like to do both
09:53 AM AchiestDragon: i did a ham radio repeater logic , timing /cw ident and such using 2 cpld/s replaced about 40 individual 74ls series chips and had the thing built from scratch in about a week
09:56 AM z64555: I'd also recommend the hand-drawn schematics. Easier to memorize muscle movements than a specific sequence of keypresses
09:56 AM robotustra: anyway, now I know who to ask if I'll have any question about clpd
09:56 AM AchiestDragon: from start of design to finised unit including part ordering and testing , not a lot longer than if i had just done it from 74 series chips alone
09:56 AM robotustra: z64555, :)
09:58 AM AchiestDragon: i was looking at using them in my current project , but may endup using a few stm32's although i realy did not want to do it in software
10:02 AM AchiestDragon: learning curve of yet another micro asm , and can i live program update a stm32 via usb from a rpi3 or do i need to have a programming adaptor ?
10:19 AM AchiestDragon: the other reason is is used the xl9572xl series from xilinx as they where also cheap and available in 64pin plcc packages so you can socket them and the socket is a .1" pitch sutable for suare pad protoboard , but the chips i used are nolonger avalable in plcc packages
10:23 AM AchiestDragon: ho sems that the supplyer nolonger stocks xilinx parts , might be why
10:31 AM AchiestDragon: ho well xc9572pcg44 (plcc package veersion ) discontinued 2015 :(
10:32 AM robotustra: he he
10:32 AM AchiestDragon: no direct replacment
10:32 AM AchiestDragon: still have a tube with about 10 in , would of needed 18 of them
10:40 AM AchiestDragon: mind you i still have 2 4cx250b 's with decent ceramic bases that i doubt im going to use for anthing
10:43 AM AchiestDragon: infact quite a few old valves /tubes , some "new" in boxes although new as in they have been sat in the box for maybe 40 or 50 years since they where made
10:48 AM AchiestDragon: back in the days when diy electronics was like the game of dont catch your hand on the anode cap while metering things out , 800v dc hurts like f**k
12:11 PM robotustra: AchiestDragon, it looks like you are older than me, i didn't play with tubes
12:36 PM AchiestDragon: i got into electronics when still in high school , 14 ish , most by that time getting cheap second hand tube kit was easy since most people where replacing them with semicondoctor kit , and i finished highschool in 82
12:38 PM robotustra: what do you mean under high school does not correlate with USSR definition of high school
12:38 PM AchiestDragon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxL4ElboiuA intersting vid guy makes nixitubes , and started in 2011
12:39 PM robotustra: in USSR kids went to elementary school at 6-7 years, then MID school up to 17
12:39 PM AchiestDragon: im 53
12:39 PM robotustra: then high school
12:39 PM robotustra: ok, as I supposed you are 10 years older than me
12:39 PM AchiestDragon: high school 12 to 16
12:40 PM robotustra: in USSR the high scool it's really starts from 17 and ends up at 22
12:40 PM robotustra: 21-22
12:40 PM robotustra: institute or uni
12:41 PM robotustra: you can go to technical school and spend like 1-3 years
12:42 PM robotustra: so when I get into electronics I already had only transistors :)
12:42 PM AchiestDragon: theres what we call 6th form that takes leving age to 18 but at 16 you can also start colage /uni and depending what you take it can be 1 to 5 years or so at eather
12:42 PM robotustra: yeah, the same
12:43 PM robotustra: 8 years of mid school + 3 years of tech school, or to get into really high school you have to finish 10 years of mid school
12:44 PM robotustra: and colledge is usually takes 4 years after 10 years of mid school
12:44 PM robotustra: acrually, now everything getting more like EU education system in former USSR
12:45 PM robotustra: is getting*
12:46 PM AchiestDragon: most of us in the uk think the gov is mad here as there still waiting for the uk to sail away from the eu and end up somewhere mid atlantic
12:46 PM robotustra: :)
12:47 PM robotustra: and draw after like atlantide
12:47 PM robotustra: blown with Golfstream to the middle of atlantic ocean
12:48 PM robotustra: and they do not allow you to have weapons
12:48 PM robotustra: that's really bad
12:51 PM robotustra: I though you are somewhere in Canada
12:52 PM AchiestDragon: yor not alowed guns here , cant carry weapons , but no its not realy bad , its not like we have wild animals like tigers or bares to worry about
12:53 PM robotustra: I mean you are not allow even to have guns for sport shooting
12:55 PM AchiestDragon: you need a licence for a gun and shotguns are used for hunting more often than not , also the farmers here often have them
12:58 PM robotustra: can you just go and get the licence?
01:00 PM AchiestDragon: they do checks to see if you qualifiy for one
01:02 PM robotustra: if you are sane citizen - are you qualified?
01:02 PM AchiestDragon: im not anti gun but i dont own one and dont have a need for one here , and no i would not qualifiy
01:03 PM robotustra: that's why canada is a bit better then UK in this
01:06 PM robotustra: https://imgur.com/xxZYrDb
01:06 PM robotustra: did some pcb today
01:08 PM AchiestDragon: theres 2 sides to the argument , if everyone had a gun then there would be more problems associated with acidents than there is without them , let alone other shootings as a result , its worked for years in the uk as it is and i dont see a problem here
01:11 PM AchiestDragon: kool , did the router bit slip or was it slightly off line the pads lower right look a deeper cut than the upper left of the pcb ?
01:14 PM robotustra: the table is not even, I was in a hurry to make it
01:14 PM robotustra: the table was just a piece of wood, I'm not sure if it was strait even :)
01:14 PM robotustra: and double scotch glued pcb
01:14 PM AchiestDragon: they take time to setup
01:15 PM robotustra: I have to make good aluminum table, but it's a bit expensive
01:15 PM Tom_L: how big?
01:16 PM robotustra: like 240mm x 400 mm
01:16 PM robotustra: preferably t-slotted
01:17 PM robotustra: because now I just put a piece of wood in a vise and use it as a mini table
01:18 PM robotustra: anyway< I have to think of making such table and make it adjustable
01:18 PM robotustra: at least 200x200
01:18 PM AchiestDragon: tip , on setup i found its easyer to disconect the x and y drive belts , set the z to about .5mm above the surface , then you can move the cutter by hand allong the x & y and using a /5mm feeler guage check the hight at verious points quickly , once you have the bed level reconect the x & y drives
01:20 PM robotustra: the problem is, that the bed is not adjustable for now:)
01:22 PM AchiestDragon: by the looks of that pcb i would say it would be worth moding it so it is , you got a pic of the machine
01:23 PM robotustra: do you need a pic of my cnc router?
01:23 PM AchiestDragon: yea
01:24 PM robotustra: http://robotustra.ca/my-cnc-mill2
01:25 PM robotustra: I can remove vise and put the precise table on it
01:28 PM robotustra: hm.. may be invest some money in a steel t-slotted table, I know how to make it flat and even now :)
01:30 PM Tom_L: you not only need it flat but parallel to it's bottom, square and level
01:30 PM robotustra: I can make it parralel to x-y after
01:30 PM AchiestDragon: trying to find a pic of the one i made , i made mine out of steel welded together , and knowing that it may end up out of line i built in adjusters so i could level it
01:30 PM Tom_L: and plumb with Z
01:31 PM Tom_L: AchiestDragon, i'm welding a frame as well
01:31 PM robotustra: I can't weld in appartment :(
01:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Stepper_mounts.jpg
01:32 PM Tom_L: that's the basic idea
01:32 PM robotustra: and I like disassemblible constructions
01:32 PM robotustra: just do it :)
01:33 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/
01:33 PM Tom_L: i have started
01:35 PM Tom_L: i think i want the rails before i start welding stuff
01:36 PM robotustra: yes
01:36 PM robotustra: it's a good idea
01:36 PM robotustra: that's why I got all stuff before I start really to cut and join metal
01:37 PM robotustra: I but everithing together, watch, and pondering
01:37 PM robotustra: put*
01:37 PM robotustra: everything*
01:38 PM robotustra: my english typing is awful
01:39 PM Tom_L: seems ok to me
01:39 PM Tom_L: better than most
01:40 PM robotustra: I mean, I do a lot of typos because of blind typing
01:44 PM robotustra: what I just find... http://stores.ebay.com/The-Backyard-Scrapyard/sacrificial-fixture-plates-/_i.html?_fsub=18752670016
01:44 PM Tom_L: how thick are those?
01:45 PM robotustra: some of them 1" some of them 1/2"
01:45 PM Tom_L: i think the last one i put on the sherline was around 1"
01:45 PM robotustra: if to make solid layout it could be good
01:52 PM AchiestDragon: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SqUGTJsSM8M0vqXknLTC2gE4Z3xbKq7D/view?usp=sharing that was attempt 2 worked quite well
01:56 PM AchiestDragon: in that it could route wood , and plastic it could handle drilling aluminium , used it to drill the holes making the big hexapod saying that i only had to set up the allignment on it once , during the 5 years i used it ,
01:58 PM AchiestDragon: made this on it also , about the only thing i have left that i did make on it https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wsHBRki_IjKf4-vvepuOoluBRgn_p9Sa/view?usp=sharing
02:01 PM robotustra: you forget "Do not enter without slippers"
02:02 PM AchiestDragon: must be 10 years back since i built that cnc , i could use eather a bosh 500w hand drill or a bosh router mounted in the spindle holder , bad points whas it used stock threaded rod as lead screws so was slow and a backlash was a problem
02:04 PM robotustra: yeah, I use ACME screws, with delring nuts, and they are antilashback
02:04 PM robotustra: I do not how long they will last, but I'll see
02:05 PM robotustra: if I'll rebuild this cnc router, probably I'll install brass ones
02:06 PM AchiestDragon: i still have the frame but the stainless bar and bearings and steppers and drivers got reused on the 3d printer , and changed to belts for that
02:06 PM robotustra: did you finish your printer?
02:07 PM robotustra: I came to conclusion, that it's not good to disassemble working tols,
02:09 PM AchiestDragon: just , but assoon as i started to get a print the dam nozzle jamed and i managed to burn out the heated bed relay , its beein sat like that now for 4 or 5 years , i got offered a milling machine so ran out of funds for the printer , never got arround to fixing it
02:10 PM Tom_L: did you see the pieces i've cut so far?
02:11 PM robotustra: Tom_L, you mean the pics of your mill?
02:11 PM Tom_L: yeah
02:11 PM AchiestDragon: the other problem is the home for the pinter is where that cnc used to be in a little outhouse at the back of the house , and idealy i can only realy use it when the weather is warm enough and when its not raning
02:11 PM Tom_L: was directed to AchiestDragon though
02:11 PM robotustra: yeah, I saw them, good work
02:11 PM robotustra: you are not in a hurry
02:12 PM Tom_L: i was gone last week
02:12 PM Tom_L: but no i'm not in a hurry
02:12 PM Tom_L: the project build is half the fun
02:12 PM robotustra: find a bunch of t-slotted tables: https://www.ebay.com/sch/worldofclamping/m.html?item=182753101703&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
02:13 PM Tom_L: i'll put a solid slab on mine
02:13 PM Tom_L: and a tapped hole pattern
02:13 PM AchiestDragon: so lan now is to buy a 3d printer that i can use in the flat any time of the year whatever the weather , as the workshop is only 6foot square and is better used as garden storage
02:13 PM AchiestDragon: lan / plan
02:14 PM robotustra: hm.. you mean 6x6'?
02:14 PM AchiestDragon: yea
02:15 PM robotustra: 4 square meters?
02:15 PM AchiestDragon: 6ft
02:15 PM robotustra: 6 square feet = 2x3 feet
02:15 PM robotustra: :)
02:15 PM AchiestDragon: actualy 6foot by 5foot 11" and exactly 6foot tall ,
02:16 PM robotustra: a cube
02:16 PM AchiestDragon: almost
02:16 PM robotustra: why can't you use the space in the house?
02:18 PM AchiestDragon: too noisy in the flat , had the mill in here , bit noisy for those in the flat below
02:25 PM robotustra: that's why I did a sound proof box for it
02:25 PM robotustra: and did some antivibration platform for it
02:27 PM AchiestDragon: well the router was in the workshop that acted like a sound proof box , open the workshop door set it going leve workshop closing door and sit in garden looking in though the window occasionaly to see how far it had done
02:29 PM robotustra: ha ha
02:30 PM AchiestDragon: the 3d printer well i fitted large rubber dampers to it , you can here the stepper noise thats about it , but not low freq vibrations that vibrate the building like you get from milling
02:31 PM robotustra: I put 4x10 inner tubes under the mill - no low freq vibrations
02:32 PM AchiestDragon: the mill weighs about 160kg
02:32 PM robotustra: and what
02:32 PM robotustra: the car weight is >1000 kg
02:33 PM robotustra: take bigger inner tubes :)
02:34 PM AchiestDragon: it would punture , the cat would see to that
02:37 PM robotustra: and make a hole?
02:40 PM AchiestDragon: or 3 yea
02:55 PM AchiestDragon: alhtough when i made the 3d printer myne would do 300*300*400mm prints it cost me arround £100 in new parts , the rest i reclamed , the reprap kits where £800 at the time and only did like a 200mm cube
02:56 PM robotustra: I don't even consider reprap as a printer
02:58 PM AchiestDragon: i had to dismantle it and reasemble it to get it into the workshop , so have to do the same to get back out so i can fix the thing as theres not enough space in there to get at it properly to repair it
03:00 PM robotustra: probably you have to move from UK to canada to get more space for your hobby
03:00 PM AchiestDragon: yea , other than all the snow
03:01 PM robotustra: snow is cool sometimes :)
03:02 PM AchiestDragon: yea , but i have athritus so as much as it can be fun , cold makes it painfull and does not help
03:03 PM robotustra: well, there are US on the south, there are some places with no winter
03:05 PM AchiestDragon: ive never been out of the uk
03:09 PM robotustra: no need or you just don't want?
03:12 PM AchiestDragon: no need , i oculd say afford to go on holaday aborad but would rather spend the mony on something that i can use long term , if i want to get away theres pleanty of places arroudn the uk to go for a week or so that i have not been to yet , althoug hif i left the uk i would prob not want to return
03:19 PM AchiestDragon: where i am is quite nice , theres arround 2000 homes in this town and although small its 12 miles to the nearest major town so not remote eahter so best of both worlds , in that it has good facilaties while not beeing a never ending sea of skyscrapers
03:36 PM AchiestDragon: do you find cities prity much the same wherever you go , like the same chain stors etc with the same stuff just in diferent places no mater what city your in , the bigger the city you just find more of them
03:38 PM AchiestDragon: like london , you set of and see a mac d's ,, followed by a news agents , etc and about half a mile walking down the same road you find another mc'ds and you have passed 2 or 3 news agnets all opperating under the same name ,all with the same goods
03:40 PM AchiestDragon: you go to manchester , and find prity much the same stores , and only a handfull of other shops and such , in china they have teeshirts with same same written on them as its just the same endless boring
03:41 PM AchiestDragon: even all the pubs now are down to 3 different brewery chains
04:32 PM Jak_o_Shadows: rue, I think I roughly get it. I may try using your code you linked somewhat soon.
04:33 PM Jak_o_Shadows: When I do, i'll scope it all out with the logic analyzer, so you can include a pic of that on your servo101 page
06:16 PM robotustra: AchiestDragon, yep, big cities now not a cake any more
06:18 PM robotustra: for hobbiest like me it's better to live in a suburb and have some workshop and tools
07:26 PM rue_mohr: I have a logic analizer, the scope trace is just fine
07:26 PM rue_mohr: :P
07:28 PM Tom_L: what's up tonight?
07:33 PM robotustra: rue_mohr, what to mesure with other's logic analizers?
07:33 PM robotustra: rue_mohr, what to mesure with others by logic analizers?
08:05 PM rue_mohr: had shower, I think I got friday washed off
08:20 PM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-3V-50MHz-CPLD-Development-Board-Core-Board-Module-JTAG-USB-LED-LDO-MAX3000-EPM3064/32720191932.html
08:20 PM rue_mohr: tom...
08:20 PM rue_mohr: can ya tell me anything about that one?
08:20 PM rue_mohr: oh, you were doing xlilinx
08:23 PM Tom_L: yep, i dunno about altera
08:28 PM AchiestDragon: difernet cpld's are like the difference between avr's and pics , there are meany , to ad to it all the software and its capabliaties are propriotory mostly and its that where the problem for hobby use arises , only used xilinx my self so cant coment on the others
08:30 PM AchiestDragon: i remeber altera would not licence there tools for free hobby use but you could get an free education licence though your uni
08:31 PM AchiestDragon: and xilinx just have the habit of droping chips from there production making them obosolete with no replacments
08:33 PM AchiestDragon: there was talk of an open fpga asic project on opencores.org but dont know if anyone got anyware with it
08:56 PM AchiestDragon: tipical usa marketing , make a product designed for low volume production of specialist kit , then drop the part so no one can get replacments 8 years down the line when there used on comlplex systems like some factory autimation that unit should have a 20yer plus life span and the parts should still be available
08:59 PM AchiestDragon: example there was a auto pic wharehouse cost milions to make , 15 years later they where stuck as the then standard eurocardbus cpu and io cards just are not available any longer and its a struggle finding 6809's and associated chipsets to fix them
09:00 PM AchiestDragon: afaik they got soeone to design a fpga based emulator for it , because replacing the whole system is just not an option realy
09:06 PM AchiestDragon: worst part is a lot of the early proms ie fuse programed rom when you program them it burns out phisicaly a link in the chip for each bit , but on some after 15 years of use electrical creapage in the chip caused the links to slowly grow back , so making the devices effectivly blank again , bad news if you dont have the original code and programmer
09:08 PM Tom_L: by then they'er obsolete anyway
09:08 PM AchiestDragon: its the main faling of some of the early pal devices also , had that happen
09:10 PM AchiestDragon: you may want to keep say your iphone up to date and be the latest model every year but you dont want to have to buy a new garage door opener every couple of years , do you
09:11 PM Tom_L: matter of fact, i'm patching mine up right now
09:11 PM Tom_L: probably 20 yrs old or so
09:12 PM Tom_L: cracked gear case
09:17 PM AchiestDragon: like the right to repair , built in obsilecance and bricking of moded devices , all designed to force you to buy a full replacment rather than have to spend a couple of cents or so on a single part
09:18 PM AchiestDragon: wair or acidental damage
09:18 PM AchiestDragon: or weather damage
09:20 PM anonnumberanon: Pointy hairs?
09:20 PM Tom_L: i'm gettin a single part
09:22 PM Tom_L: full replacement = non qualified repair persons anymore
09:29 PM AchiestDragon: more like qualified engineers who have to take low payed jobs that dont need qualifications as theres no other option
09:37 PM AchiestDragon: they sill do engineering courses at uni here , and collages but theres FA in the way of any industry that has engineering jobs arround , most electroinc production moved abroad where labur was cheaper , because they did not want to pay the going rates for staff
09:50 PM AchiestDragon: the softwae side of things is just the same , only a handfull of global companies providing 90% of all the commertial software
09:54 PM AchiestDragon: like theres bilions of people on this planet prpb more people have contributed to linux than actualy worked as a programmer for a company profesionaly
10:28 PM Jak_o_Shadows: went to the shops
10:28 PM Jak_o_Shadows: bougth more christmas lights
10:28 PM Jak_o_Shadows: help me
11:31 PM rue_mohr: you may not buy anymore until dec, if you do, you have to send them to rue
11:37 PM Jak_o_Shadows: aha
11:37 PM Jak_o_Shadows: I spent 3 hours putting lights up this morning.
11:37 PM Jak_o_Shadows: I have a nifty tree thing. Wit that thing I 3d printed the toher day
11:45 PM rue_bed: I'v not been able to figure out what kinda thing to do
11:47 PM Tom_L: rails ordered
11:47 PM rue_bed: oo
11:47 PM rue_bed: any other progress?
11:47 PM Tom_L: no
11:47 PM rue_bed: k
11:47 PM Tom_L: been gone
11:48 PM rue_bed: I need to wake up
11:48 PM Tom_L: want parts in hand before more progress
11:48 PM rue_bed: surely I'm good for rest now
11:48 PM Tom_L: do it once...