#robotics Logs

Nov 05 2017

01:59 AM rue_mohr: k
02:02 AM rue_mohr: wheres the other level
02:02 AM rue_mohr: and the machinists square :)
02:02 AM rue_mohr: looking good,
02:02 AM rue_mohr: I wonder how thick a coat of paint is
02:04 AM rue_mohr: so, to clear space for the plotter by the electronics bench, I had to go thru 7 tubs of pcb's and highgrade, I got one tub filtered out/stripped down amongst them, which gave me the space i needed to shuffle things
02:04 AM rue_mohr: out of the tub worth of baords I got about 5lbs of components & misc
02:09 AM rue_mohr: not going after as much as I used to
02:09 AM rue_mohr: I need to go thru about 8 more boxes of boards and filter it out too
02:14 AM rue_mohr: ugh, I'm gonna end up needing cable tray around the top of the shop
02:17 AM rue_mohr: so then to be sure, here, what were doing is reducing the allotment for electronics and adding some to mechanics
02:17 AM rue_mohr: yea
02:17 AM rue_mohr: half the electronics bench becomes programming
02:18 AM rue_mohr: the programming bench becomes mechanical (cnc)
02:18 AM rue_mohr: and 3d printer
02:18 AM rue_mohr: the pcb station goes from the programming to the electronics
02:18 AM rue_mohr: which makes sense
02:19 AM rue_mohr: whats odd, is that it looks like there's space left over
02:19 AM rue_mohr: we need to move that speaker
02:19 AM rue_mohr: yea, and we need two more
02:20 AM rue_mohr: you should makea large cnc so you can make the speaker boxes to have more room
02:20 AM rue_mohr: heh
02:20 AM z64555: "Oh we have leftover space, what can we do to fill it up?" is an interesting question. :)
02:21 AM rue_mohr: its an odd shop
02:21 AM rue_mohr: if you put things in a box till its full, then take them out, and try to put them back in again, they dont fit
02:21 AM rue_mohr: the shop is overfull right now, but only 75% of the space is being used
02:22 AM rue_mohr: and if i swap two work areas, sudenly there is 5% more space in the shop
02:22 AM z64555: you still need enough room to move around in
02:22 AM rue_mohr: yea, I mean 75% of rated w/ moving space
02:23 AM z64555: ah
02:23 AM z64555: well, project parts on the table do tend to take up space
02:23 AM z64555: so that might be one thing
02:23 AM rue_mohr: yea I need the work table back
02:23 AM rue_mohr: ah, hmm
02:27 AM rue_mohr: yup, I shoudl work on ousting another box of pcb's
02:27 AM rue_mohr: then I could have a better space for the 2d printer
02:35 AM rue_mohr: I think rue fell asleep
02:35 AM rue_mohr: maybe I shoudl take a nap too
02:35 AM rue_mohr: :/
03:16 AM rue_mohr: hahahahaha I'm panicing cause my thermal system log is dissapearing, but its the time change!
03:16 AM rue_mohr: hhahahaha
06:45 AM veverak: :)
08:45 AM SomeT: anyone know some good sites to find academic papers on robotics please?
08:48 AM deshipu: xarrchive
08:48 AM weyland|yutani: arxiv
08:48 AM deshipu: https://arxiv.org/
08:48 AM deshipu: right
09:26 AM SomeT: thanks
09:27 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQw
09:27 AM SpeedEvil: Flexible Muscle-Based Locomotion for Bipedal Creatures
09:31 AM SpeedEvil: (optimising in general, it's not about fexible muscles)
09:31 AM SpeedEvil: Paper in description
09:32 AM sherlock: I love how verbose paper names are
09:36 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YncZtLaZ6kQ Davinci would have been proud.
09:39 AM polprog: .ca
09:39 AM polprog: oops
10:02 AM SomeT: thanks
12:05 PM meinhof: can anybody give brief information about robocup spl?
12:05 PM meinhof: like where can we find the platform or how to start developing
12:05 PM Tom_L: i'd ask in #seattlerobotics
12:06 PM Tom_L: they're into those competetions
12:06 PM meinhof: sure thanks
12:06 PM Tom_L: might have to wait a bit
02:44 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YncZtLaZ6kQ
02:44 PM SpeedEvil: Weta Digital Horse FEM Simulation
03:14 PM rue_shop3: "digikey coloring book"?!!!
03:16 PM z64555: "Fill in the color code for a 220Ohm resistor!"
03:17 PM polprog: brown orng orng violet
03:20 PM rue_shop3: er...
03:21 PM polprog: joking, red red brown gold
03:22 PM polprog: to my own surprise i learned this by heart by now :o
03:26 PM z64555: you learn it fast when you have a bag of resistors and you need to find *one* of the right value
03:30 PM polprog: that was the case
03:30 PM polprog: more precisely, sort them into a box
03:34 PM SpeedEvil: There is of course the other sorting algorithm that's more sane.
03:35 PM SpeedEvil: And involves spending $9.99 for a stack of 10000 assorted resistors in neat bags
03:35 PM deshipu: I like those sample books for smd parts
03:35 PM polprog: i need to get one
03:35 PM polprog: how expensive are they?
03:35 PM deshipu: not very
03:36 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2600-pcs-130-Values-1-4W-1-0-25W-Metal-Film-Resistors-Kit-Pack-Mix-Assortment/162178244809
03:36 PM SpeedEvil: SMD is cheaper
03:36 PM deshipu: 170 values 20pcs each for ~$20
03:36 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3400pcs-170-Value-0805-SMD-Resistor-And-Capacitor-Kit-Pack-Box-Component-Kit/201990364107
03:37 PM polprog: holy molly
03:37 PM deshipu: get one in a book
03:37 PM deshipu: easier to find the one you need
03:39 PM polprog: 30 zlotys [about 10 usd] for a kit of E12 serie.. 1720pcs
03:39 PM polprog: looks good?
04:54 PM evilroot: Dammit, why the hell can't I seem to sell this last robot
04:54 PM * evilroot is frustrated
04:57 PM rue_mohr: there aren't enough smart people in the world with money
04:57 PM rue_mohr: that'll do it every time
04:57 PM rue_mohr: if you were selling turnkey to stupid people, there are lots of them with hords of money
04:58 PM rue_mohr: not sure how all the money got in the hands of stupid people
04:58 PM evilroot: Blah
04:58 PM rue_mohr: smart people must be gullable
05:10 PM branjb: what kind of robot?
05:14 PM evilroot: branjb: heavy duty industrial Cartesian
05:14 PM evilroot: Good for everything from pick and place to CNC milling
05:18 PM evilroot: Though not huge
05:19 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, or they really aren't that smart
05:19 PM Tom_L: there's brain smart then there's street smart
05:26 PM evilroot: I think I'm going to have to part it out
05:31 PM evilroot: The rails and servos ought to be more than the machine, just hate doing it
05:34 PM Tom_L: what size rails?
05:34 PM evilroot: THK SR-25W on the Y and SR-20W on the X
05:35 PM evilroot: Two rails and two bearing blocks per axis
05:35 PM evilroot: Smaller on the Y, I forget which
05:35 PM evilroot: But also THK
05:36 PM evilroot: I can split it by axis too, aka for a premade rady to go X axis or such
05:36 PM evilroot: https://images.craigslist.org/00K0K_hhj6sJhnL4x_1200x900.jpg
05:36 PM evilroot: That's the Y
05:36 PM evilroot: https://images.craigslist.org/00404_4oSVm1LiLl_1200x900.jpg
05:36 PM evilroot: That's X
05:37 PM evilroot: I beleive the Y rails are 1000mm and the x 800mm total
05:39 PM Tom_L: i'm probably gonna have to cut my rails when i get em
05:40 PM Tom_L: and have my bud turn down the screw
07:18 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, sounds like your gonna jump then
07:20 PM rue_shop3: both feet?
07:34 PM rue_shop3: you know, a digitizer would be nice for tracing objects into cad
07:34 PM rue_shop3: just need one not designed for paper
07:34 PM rue_shop3: sounds like a thing with good inverse kin behind it
07:35 PM rue_shop3: ooo 3d point digitizer?
07:43 PM Tom_L: jump?
07:44 PM Tom_L: i used a digitizer on some parts but it's just not too accurate
07:44 PM Tom_L: but the parts were mylar prints which had a very sloppy tolerance
07:44 PM Tom_L: so it was fine
07:44 PM Tom_L: my welding skilz suck with wirefeed
07:45 PM Tom_L: i'm used to stick and it's taking me a while to figure out mig
07:45 PM Tom_L: but i think i got it set where it needs to be now
07:45 PM Tom_L: i just threw out a digitizer btw
07:46 PM Tom_L: like 16 x 16 iirc
07:59 PM Tom_L: i'm finding the chart on the welder is a little off from what i end up using or i'm going too slow or something
08:00 PM Tom_L: it's a good place to start..
08:01 PM rue_shop3: I found with the wirefeed I had to a) use a higher current than I'da guessed, b) start off the weld joint and wait for it to get going
08:02 PM Tom_L: i wanted to try smaller wire but it keeps misfeeding so i went back to the .030" spool i had in it
08:02 PM rue_shop3: remember, everything is actually happening slowly, the temporal problem is because of the hydrenolyn
08:02 PM Tom_L: not sure why it won't feed .025 reliablly
08:03 PM Tom_L: i did several practice beads and i think it's set fairly close
08:03 PM rue_shop3: remember, the bead will shrink and pull the metal in
08:03 PM Tom_L: turned the gas down some, i'm not really sure where that's supposed to be set
08:04 PM rue_shop3: if it goes DTDDTDDTDTDTDGDGTDTGTPPPPPPP and brown crap, use more gas
08:04 PM Tom_L: i had it set pretty high
08:04 PM Tom_L: seemed to do better lower
08:04 PM rue_shop3: if you can actually see the tank guage dropping, while you weld, use less, and spend more time watching your weld
08:05 PM Tom_L: i used to be able to lay a stick weld pretty nice
08:05 PM Tom_L: this is taking some getting used to
08:06 PM rue_shop3: yup, remember to give the peices a bit of a gap so when it pulls in you can roll them back apart to straight
08:06 PM rue_shop3: "welding: the way to make things permanently wrong"
08:08 PM rue_shop3: I need a better stationary section
08:08 PM rue_shop3: I need more book space, but I need the books to take up less space
08:08 PM Tom_L: i was gonna tack both sides before comitting
08:08 PM rue_shop3: maybe I should turn a wall of the back livingroom into a bookshelf
08:09 PM Tom_L: naw
08:09 PM Tom_L: books are outdated before they go to print
08:09 PM rue_shop3: I was watching a yt video, the guy used a peice of a popcan for a spacer for the first weld, which is smart, it cant fuse
08:10 PM rue_shop3: thin too
08:10 PM rue_shop3: ok I have a problem now, I need to name my printers
08:14 PM Tom_L: what sort of gas do you use?
08:15 PM Tom_L: i think this is tri mix but i'd have to check
08:16 PM rue_mohr: tig was argon, wire was only with fluxcore
08:16 PM rue_mohr: (which sucks)
08:16 PM Tom_L: yeah my roll is still in the shrinkwrap where it likely will stay
08:17 PM Tom_L: i was working on a trailer for a friend and thought i might need it outside
08:20 PM Tom_L: do you push or pull the wire?
08:20 PM Tom_L: and do you use a circular motion or V?
08:28 PM rue_shop3: well, I didn't get past "fluxcore is worthless"
08:29 PM rue_shop3: I decided I like tig better
08:29 PM rue_shop3: so, if 90% of me making a project is moving materials around, I should focus on optimizing that
08:30 PM Tom_L: i should have all the parts before i start assembly i suppose
08:31 PM rue_shop3: na
08:31 PM Tom_L: don't know exact lengths of things
08:31 PM Tom_L: 2nd time thru maybe but not the first
08:32 PM rue_shop3: you need to balance the assembly of a project to give you a feed of positive emotional feedback (sorry, word missing)
08:33 PM rue_shop3: right I need to name the printers
08:33 PM Tom_L: still don't know whether to belt drive Z or mount the motor above it
08:33 PM * Tom_L gives rue_shop3 the full alphabet and numbering system
08:41 PM rue_shop3: I been having a time trying to work out a switching current regulator
08:42 PM rue_shop3: becasue I been wrestling with the definition of current in a switching context
08:53 PM rue_shop3: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/micropwm/p1080966.jpg
08:53 PM rue_shop3: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
09:10 PM rue_shop3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A66iw8P5NQ4
09:10 PM rue_shop3: (nice)
09:10 PM Tom_L: that's what i used the digitizer for
09:10 PM Tom_L: making hydroblocks
09:11 PM rue_shop3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6LrTAQyvb0
09:11 PM rue_shop3: bugger....
09:11 PM rue_shop3: such simple tricks
09:14 PM Tom_L: freeze water in it or just cap off the ends?
09:14 PM Tom_L: no audio here
09:14 PM rue_shop3: just cap
09:14 PM Tom_L: we made hydroblocks that were to form sheet metal with a large bladder pressed around and over them
09:17 PM orlock: rue_shop3: Ever worked with a "synchronous quartz drive" motor?
09:17 PM rue_shop3: no, do tell more
09:18 PM orlock: thats about all i know
09:18 PM orlock: i will strip it down and see if thats actually whast in it
09:18 PM orlock: this is for motors that have to turn at a precise rate
09:18 PM orlock: i;ve been googling prior to tearing this "new" mount down, and people have mentioned thats what's in it instead of steppers
09:19 PM orlock: but they may just be talking shite
09:34 PM orlock: rue_shop3: From what i can tell it seems to be some sort of analog controlled motor with precise speed , but no encoder?
09:34 PM orlock: Unsure how it works. Will tear down tonight and take pictures
09:44 PM rue_mohr: piezo implies pulsed
09:44 PM orlock: yeah
09:49 PM orlock: maybe similar to the way mechanical quartz clocks work?
09:50 PM SpeedEvil: 'synchronus quartz drive' actually describes properly a stepper motor with a quartz crystal controller.
09:50 PM SpeedEvil: there are no mechanical quartz clocks.
09:50 PM orlock: SpeedEvil: Yeah thats what i was just discovering
09:50 PM orlock: SpeedEvil: well, a stepper is mechanical
09:50 PM orlock: compared to a electronic only quartz with LCD
09:50 PM SpeedEvil: It's really not.
09:52 PM orlock: It's got bearings, shafts, and makes things physically move
09:52 PM orlock: it might not be clockwork, but theres a mechanism in there moving things
09:53 PM orlock: anyway, if they just mean dumb steppers with a crystal oscillator for timing, then fair enough, i can work with that
09:54 PM orlock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromechanics
09:55 PM rue_mohr: isn't it amazing how many wiki pages are useless?
09:55 PM orlock: yup
09:58 PM rue_mohr: the lack of practical, applicable information is a whole other thing
09:59 PM rue_mohr: if there were a page about adding 1 and 1, it would be put in terms that made it make no sense at all
10:00 PM rue_mohr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addition
10:00 PM rue_mohr: they tried
10:00 PM rue_mohr: actaully as you scroll down they do make a good mess of it
10:01 PM rue_mohr: next time someone asks me what 1+1 is, I'm going to say 0, and whisper "carry 1"
10:03 PM SpeedEvil: 11 is also correct
10:03 PM SpeedEvil: (in base 10
10:03 PM SpeedEvil: 1
10:04 PM * rue_mohr pushes SpeedEvils reset button
10:41 PM rue_shop3: I'v made over 23 of those wooden storage boxes and I need MORE
10:43 PM Tom_L: no
10:43 PM Tom_L: you need less to put in them
10:43 PM Tom_L: the boxes take space too
10:46 PM Luminax-Work is now known as LuminaxWk
10:47 PM Tom_L: rue_shop3
10:47 PM Tom_L: would you make any changes to the mill design?
10:51 PM rue_shop3: just a few plates across things in the top bridge
10:51 PM rue_shop3: lateral stability
10:52 PM Tom_L: it has side braces
10:52 PM rue_shop3: I wonder what the cam program does it I tell it to pocket a 1mm hole with a 1mm bit
10:53 PM Tom_L: plunge cuts it
10:53 PM rue_shop3: thats what I'd think
10:53 PM Tom_L: or errors out
10:53 PM rue_shop3: it has no mechanism to just drill a hole
10:53 PM Tom_L: but as the programmer you should know to use a plunge move anyway
10:53 PM Tom_L: G1 Z-1
10:54 PM Tom_L: sure it does
10:54 PM Tom_L: G1 Z-1 F xx
10:54 PM rue_shop3: nope, the CAM processor has no way to do it
10:54 PM Tom_L: you just have no programmed retract for chip clear
10:56 PM Tom_L: i would use a drill cycle for that anyway
10:56 PM Tom_L: but it can be done
10:56 PM rue_shop3: not with the CAM processor I use
10:56 PM Tom_L: what cam?
10:56 PM rue_shop3: bamcam
10:56 PM Tom_L: cambam?
10:56 PM rue_shop3: yea
10:56 PM Tom_L: yeah it kinda sucks
10:56 PM rue_shop3: it generates stuff that grbl dosn't support
10:57 PM Tom_L: no sureprise there
10:57 PM rue_shop3: :)
10:57 PM rue_shop3: I'm trying to get myself to make a control panel
10:57 PM Tom_L: so edit the post so it works with grbl
10:57 PM rue_shop3: 3 switches, 3 leds
10:57 PM Tom_L: i don't know what all grbl supports
10:57 PM Tom_L: any drill cycles?
10:57 PM Tom_L: G73
10:57 PM Tom_L: for instance
10:57 PM rue_shop3: and I cant work out if I should cnc it, 3d print it, or 2d print a template and bang it off by hand
10:57 PM Tom_L: most are G8x
10:58 PM rue_shop3: no drill cycles on grbl
10:58 PM Tom_L: not even G73
10:58 PM Tom_L: pretty archaic
10:58 PM rue_shop3: not that I know of
10:58 PM Tom_L: where's it's page?
10:58 PM rue_shop3: yea, well, arduino public domain
10:58 PM rue_shop3: grbl is completely obsolete
10:59 PM rue_shop3: the author stopped working on it, there were about 200 forks, and nobody has done anything
10:59 PM rue_shop3: and everyone is still using it
10:59 PM Tom_L: funny it supports probing but no drill cycles
10:59 PM rue_shop3: its halarious
11:00 PM rue_shop3: I'm gonna hand bang this one
11:00 PM Tom_L: i have an obvious solution you don't wanna hear about
11:00 PM Tom_L: where's the most mature grbl fork?
11:04 PM rue_shop3: heh
11:05 PM rue_shop3: I gave up on the forks
11:05 PM rue_shop3: most of them didn't turn into anything
11:05 PM rue_shop3: grbl itself is a mess
11:11 PM Tom_L: appears so
11:28 PM rue_shop3: for what it does, its a working mess
11:47 PM rue_shop3: bah, bedtime