#robotics Logs
Oct 23 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:16 AM anonnumberanon: looking for a new laptop, and selling this t420 here
12:52 AM rue_bed: well I dont need more stuff
12:52 AM rue_bed: Ineed more room
12:52 AM rue_bed: I got the prints done for my new cnc pendant
12:52 AM rue_bed: :)
01:02 AM mrdata_: ok
01:07 AM rue_bed: the new one has a 3d printed keyboard, and uses a dc cdrom motor for the control wheel
01:08 AM rue_bed: the avr does a darn good job of software integrating the voltage
01:09 AM rue_bed: anyhow, I should be able to put the whole thing togethor this week
04:41 AM z64556 is now known as z64555
11:39 AM anonnumberanon: what is the linux toolchain for arm development?
11:40 AM polprog: im joining the question
11:40 AM SpeedEvil: 'arm' varies a fair bit.
11:41 AM SpeedEvil: From teeny microcontrollers to beefy SoCs able to run a phone
11:41 AM SpeedEvil: gcc often works well
11:41 AM z64555: To narrow that down, which manufacturer is the chip produced by
11:41 AM z64555: gcc probably has the highest commonality
11:42 AM z64555: but some companies like to make features that are only available if you use *their* compiler, or punch in some lines of assembler
11:44 AM veverak: yup
11:44 AM veverak: anonnumberanon: be more specific about chip :)
11:47 AM SpeedEvil: Also, he may not have meant the micro type.
11:47 AM SpeedEvil: This is after all #robotics
11:49 AM * z64555 has flashbacks to playing with an armatron
11:49 AM anonnumberanon: lol no i meant ARM
11:50 AM anonnumberanon: veverak, i don't know it was to give info for a friend
11:50 AM Tom_L: keil
11:50 AM anonnumberanon: i'll get in on the action soon though for this little dev board i have
11:50 AM veverak: :)
11:50 AM anonnumberanon: unless i get pushed away by the windows toolchain or something
11:51 AM z64555: if its gcc, you can always run it through some sort of emulator
11:51 AM Tom_L: what arm?
11:51 AM Tom_L: right or left?
11:51 AM anonnumberanon: oh maybe i could make a SERVO DRIVER WITH 18 PWM OUTPUTS AT 16-BIT RESOLUTION
11:51 AM anonnumberanon: heh
11:51 AM z64555: like MSYS, MinGW
11:52 AM Tom_L: anonnumberanon rue did that already
11:52 AM anonnumberanon: Tom_L, really? is it functional/ready?
11:52 AM Tom_L: pretty sure, ask him
11:52 AM z64555: Didn't he chain those?
11:52 AM z64555: instead of one processor
11:52 AM Tom_L: haven't seen his work
11:52 AM anonnumberanon: z64555, i would be using linux probably
11:52 AM Tom_L: not that i know of
11:52 AM anonnumberanon: i like it
11:53 AM z64555: or maybe he used a multiplexor setup
11:53 AM anonnumberanon: but the windows stm arm development seems to should be given a chance, ill test both and see
11:53 AM Tom_L: 68332 used a mux for it for 16 pwm
11:53 AM anonnumberanon: maybe he has stuff on his server what's the url again?
11:53 AM Tom_L: ruemohr dot something
11:53 AM z64555: sigh, I need to get used to toolchains. MS visual studio has spoiled me
11:54 AM Tom_L: http://ruemohr.org/
11:54 AM anonnumberanon: yeah
11:55 AM anonnumberanon: dont see anything in http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/
11:55 AM anonnumberanon: that's where the non-junk is iirc
11:55 AM notsvelte: does this prediction seem accurate? "there will be a demand for people with these skills in order to properly maintain, build, develop, deploy, manage, and service robots for the years to come. Overall, the IDC said that there is great potential for robotics to be a job maker with these necessary new skills across a wide range of areas. Additionally, the report predicts that future years will c
11:55 AM notsvelte: will create a larger talent gap around robotics skills. and “by 2020, robotics growth will accelerate the talent race, leaving 35% of robotics related jobs vacant while the average salary increases by at least 60%.”
11:56 AM z64555: wonder if they're extrapolating on what happened with engineering positions
11:57 AM Tom_L: we've got a robotics lab at the vo-tech here
11:57 AM Tom_L: rather nice setup
12:00 PM Tom_itx: https://gnu-mcu-eclipse.github.io/toolchain/arm/install/
12:03 PM SpeedEvil: notsvelte: they're smoking really, really, really high grade drugs.
12:03 PM SpeedEvil: notsvelte: The problem is that in many cases, the drive is to consolidation.
12:04 PM SpeedEvil: notsvelte: If you have twenty thousand amazon warehouses with a million robots in them, you have a very small number of robot lines you're actually coding for.
12:04 PM notsvelte: haha ok thanks xD . it was this link i pasted it from this link. https://www.robots.com/blog/viewing/global-predictions-for-robotics-in-2017
12:05 PM notsvelte: im just looking into other careers atm, i have like almost 0 worthwile education atm though
12:06 PM SpeedEvil: AI basically hasn't hit in a big way yet.
12:07 PM SpeedEvil: It's been concealed by the fact there are a large number of 'low skilled' jobs that took over semi-skilled work.
12:11 PM SpeedEvil: You can probably sanely predict out to ~2019
12:11 PM SpeedEvil: As that report does.
12:18 PM Snert_: Somebody has to build the robots and service them and code for them. Though the coding might get more "unskilled" as time goes on.
12:19 PM Snert_: By then we'll be into the days of Robo++ and Mocrosoft Visual Roboware.
12:20 PM SpeedEvil: Someone, yes. But that is often embarassingly parallel - if you have one person coding a million robots.
12:21 PM Snert_: hard to predict where that one will go. What with facilities all being different....different parts of the country...etc.
12:21 PM SpeedEvil: To an extent, sure.
12:21 PM Snert_: There surely will be crusty Robo++, v1.0 and someone has to code that old crap.
12:23 PM Snert_: then there will be the upgrade modules that get installed to bring the arm up to v2.0
12:26 PM SpeedEvil: If you're working in robotics now - the field will clearly expand quite a lot for the forseeable future.
12:31 PM Snert_: it's mainly the burgerflippers that have to worry.
12:32 PM Snert_: Or maybe be the designer of BurgetBot.
12:32 PM SpeedEvil: Burgerflippers, shelf-stackers, checkout operators, drivers of all sorts, warehouse operators, agents of all sorts, ...
12:35 PM Snert_: The work force will change to accomodate whatever is needed.
12:35 PM Snert_: social disruption? Some.
12:43 PM Tom_L: burger flippers will become button pushers
12:43 PM Tom_L: or eliminated with a phone app to order yourself
12:59 PM SpeedEvil: Or the logical solution.
12:59 PM SpeedEvil: Burger flippers become burgers.
01:00 PM weyland|yutani: its not burgers its weylands new InstaBurgers! only fresh and certified flippers are used!
01:17 PM Snert_: Only the current partially displaced generation will care
01:17 PM Snert_: thems born into the new robosociety will not care
01:21 PM * weyland|yutani never cares
02:39 PM robotustra: good day
04:30 PM notsvelte: am barely above burger flipper level atm heh
05:55 PM malcom2073: Snert: The best way to instantiate any sort of social change is to do it slowly over generations
06:26 PM SpeedEvil: it may in principle work out OK.
06:27 PM SpeedEvil: it may not happen in 2020. But by 2030, a large slice of the workforce is going to be disrupted.
08:17 PM malcom2073: True, the problem being: technology is moving way faster than the average populus can
08:18 PM malcom2073: Well.... problem for some
08:25 PM rue_shop3: tom can I make a square broach?
08:26 PM Tom_itx: sure
08:26 PM rue_shop3: with what tho
08:27 PM Tom_itx: a piece of lathe steel
08:27 PM rue_shop3: ok
08:27 PM Tom_itx: back cut it around so the end is sharp
08:27 PM rue_shop3: hmm
08:27 PM Tom_itx: use a press
08:27 PM Tom_itx: that's how manual broaches are done
08:27 PM rue_shop3: oh, predrill round
08:27 PM Tom_itx: stepped size rod
08:27 PM rue_shop3: hmmm
08:27 PM Tom_itx: once it's pressed thru it's to size
08:28 PM Tom_itx: yes, you always predrill a broach hole
08:28 PM Tom_itx: or such
08:28 PM Tom_itx: forging etc
08:28 PM rue_shop3: then I can make a square hole punch
08:28 PM rue_shop3: fer soft stuff
08:28 PM Tom_itx: make the end of the piece a bit smaller square as a guide
08:28 PM Tom_itx: or round to fit the hole
08:31 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
08:31 PM Tom_L: in fact, if you make the end round you could sharpen the square points left and use that
08:31 PM rue_shop3: hmm
08:31 PM Tom_L: lathe steel is fairly accurate to size too
08:31 PM rue_shop3: 2T arbour press?
08:31 PM Tom_L: shouldn't take too much
08:31 PM rue_shop3: this sounds like a good "if nothing else, I did it" project
08:31 PM Tom_L: depends how big the square is of course
08:31 PM rue_shop3: I'm thinking a square hole punch for the arbour press, I made a round one yesterday
08:32 PM rue_shop3: for 5/32 holes
08:32 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYI1slVGziU
08:32 PM rue_shop3: it was kinda fun
08:32 PM Tom_L: see what they did?
08:32 PM Tom_L: the end starts round
08:33 PM rue_shop3: hmm
08:33 PM Tom_L: that's typically what a regular broach looks like
08:34 PM Tom_L: get a piece of 5/32 square and taper turn it round
08:34 PM Tom_L: cut slots in it
08:34 PM Tom_L: with the cut on the side you want to use as the cutter
08:34 PM Tom_L: harden it
08:35 PM rue_shop3: wtf, thats not hss
08:36 PM Tom_L: one time use could be something harder than the material you're broaching
08:36 PM Tom_L: it's probably a decent steel that can be hardened
08:38 PM Tom_L: he's hardening it later in the video
08:40 PM rue_shop3: insulation sandwich
08:40 PM rue_shop3: huh
08:41 PM Tom_L: i'd just heat it red and quench it in oil
08:41 PM rue_shop3: I'v had some cheap bolts harden up on me, I wonder if I can find one looking for it
08:41 PM rue_shop3: apparently its the 2nd stage taht makes most of the difference
08:42 PM Tom_L: ?
08:42 PM Tom_L: no sound here
08:42 PM Tom_L: but i know what broaches look like
08:42 PM rue_shop3: there is a good vidoe about hardening metal
08:43 PM rue_shop3: water vs oil etc etc
08:43 PM Tom_L: oil is generally better i think
08:43 PM rue_shop3: water overhardens
08:44 PM Tom_L: we used a wet rag when making some dies to stamp aluminum parts
08:44 PM Tom_L: heated the cutting edge with a torch and followed the red ring around with a rag
08:44 PM Tom_L: didn't heat the whole die
08:45 PM rue_shop3: huh
08:45 PM rue_shop3: how come your machining background wasn't so present like 8 years ago?
08:45 PM Tom_L: cause you never asked
08:47 PM Tom_L: with that said...
08:47 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/1-1-Square-Rotary-Punch-Broach/dp/B00VZI1PZK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1508807725&sr=8-4&keywords=5%2F32+square+broach
08:47 PM Tom_L: you could make one that way too
08:47 PM Tom_L: make sure it's centered over the hole
08:49 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/32-Square-Keyway-Broach-USA/dp/B0067BXWJW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508807799&sr=8-1&keywords=5%2F32+square+broach
08:49 PM Tom_L: got a spare 150 bux you can just buy one
08:49 PM Tom_L: :)
09:37 PM rue_shop3: hah, 150
09:37 PM Tom_L: :)
09:37 PM rue_shop3: you should hear the steal of a deal I got on hss from china
09:38 PM Tom_L: yeah but it's china steel
09:38 PM rue_shop3: it woulnd't have been accept that they were 3x longer than hss stock you get here
09:38 PM rue_shop3: I'll see
09:38 PM Tom_L: gonna make a broach?
09:38 PM rue_shop3: not now, I'm fighting to stay awake
09:39 PM rue_shop3: I fixed a upright belt sander I was given
09:39 PM rue_shop3: and printed a template for cutting a pcb
09:40 PM rue_shop3: there are a lot of things I need to do, but instead I'm falling asleep
09:40 PM Tom_L: but you won't finish anything if you do
09:41 PM rue_shop3: I dont try
09:41 PM rue_shop3: a bit of progress across the board is all I aim for
09:41 PM Tom_L: yeah that's about all i get anymore too
09:41 PM rue_shop3: as long as its steady it adds up
09:42 PM Tom_L: just so the memory retention keeps up
09:42 PM rue_shop3: I been leaving myself instructions when I an think
09:42 PM rue_shop3: so, at times like this, I just do what the paper says
09:44 PM rue_shop3: I did some code last night, iirc
09:44 PM rue_shop3: I need to make some esp8266 code for an rov
09:45 PM Tom_L: somebody was asking about your pwm code yesterday
09:45 PM Tom_L: 16 channel?
09:45 PM rue_shop3: do you think the nack can be taught?, I dont think so
09:45 PM rue_shop3: for hobby servos?
09:45 PM Tom_L: i guess
09:45 PM Tom_L: arm
09:45 PM Tom_L: ?
09:46 PM rue_shop3: ah, up to 88 channels on an arm
09:46 PM rue_shop3: right now I use slave 4017's
09:46 PM rue_shop3: so, 10 servos per channel, or did I just do 8
09:46 PM rue_shop3: its prolly 8, w/ 11 timers
09:48 PM rue_shop3: damnit, falling asleep
09:48 PM Tom_L: ok one screw assembly ready
09:48 PM Tom_L: pic coming
09:50 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Ballscrew_assembly.jpg
09:57 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Mill_base1.jpg
09:57 PM Tom_L: that's just to get an idea of scale for the base
09:57 PM Tom_L: that's a 500mm screw
09:57 PM Tom_L: so i can scale the base down a little
09:58 PM Tom_L: the blocks will mount below the 2" sq tubing
09:58 PM rue_mohr: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2b/03/7d/2b037d392d7667357d4e5268f1bacb99.jpg
09:58 PM rue_mohr: wow
09:58 PM Tom_L: so they're level with the pads
09:58 PM Tom_L: oh.. you'll like this..
09:58 PM rue_mohr: tahts a lot os twist on abck back bar
09:58 PM rue_mohr: for a thin little peice of tube
09:59 PM Tom_L: https://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/Jordan06.JPG
09:59 PM rue_mohr: !? wow, small
10:00 PM Tom_L: heh
10:00 PM Tom_L: it works too
10:00 PM Tom_L: https://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Jordan.htm
10:00 PM Tom_L: there's the article on the guy
10:02 PM rue_mohr: crazy
10:04 PM Tom_L: so on my model, having accurate parts i can tell where to put the cross braces for the screw mounts
10:04 PM rue_mohr: in only 17 weeks
10:05 PM rue_mohr: the next trick would be to use them to make smaller machines
10:05 PM Tom_L: you'd have to make smaller cutters too
10:06 PM rue_mohr: if I need to go to sleep in 2 hours do I want to wake up?
10:06 PM rue_mohr: back to your machine
10:07 PM rue_mohr: do you think the upright stability is sufficient?
10:07 PM rue_mohr: maybe some corner craces int eh back?
10:07 PM Tom_L: no, i'm gonna add a brace behind it
10:07 PM Tom_L: triangle
10:07 PM rue_mohr: yea
10:07 PM Tom_L: that's why they stick out in the back
10:07 PM Tom_L: i'm still fiddlin with sizes
10:07 PM Tom_L: but it's easy with an accurate model
10:08 PM rue_mohr: then the weakpoint is the rigidity of the material, but thats just runaway
10:08 PM Tom_L: anything will be better than my sherline
10:08 PM rue_mohr: you could do pretensioned cable/rod w/concrete filler
10:08 PM rue_mohr: yea
10:08 PM rue_mohr: I was really surprised what the sherline gets away with
10:08 PM Tom_L: i can get the tube surplus
10:08 PM rue_mohr: yea
10:09 PM rue_mohr: fill with a pretensioned rod and concrete
10:09 PM Tom_L: so the expense would be the screw kit and probably some larger steppers
10:09 PM rue_mohr: yup
10:09 PM rue_mohr: so
10:09 PM Tom_L: i can get 4 steppers 400+ in oz for 100
10:09 PM Tom_L: i dunno if 400 is enough though
10:09 PM Tom_L: mine are 282
10:10 PM rue_mohr: my version uses a peice of 8" U channel on the bottom, and the upright is 6" I beam
10:10 PM rue_mohr: w/o screw and bearing kit
10:10 PM rue_mohr: diy box slides and threaded rod
10:10 PM rue_mohr: unless I work out diy bearing leads
10:11 PM rue_mohr: I'm working on an idea
10:11 PM rue_mohr: if you need to move the screw down, you can make the X sections smaller or move them down and add other feet
10:12 PM Tom_L: i can use smaller square for the cross braces too
10:12 PM rue_mohr: I have a delemna tho, I dont know if I want the U channel up or down
10:12 PM Tom_L: like 1.5"
10:12 PM Tom_L: down
10:12 PM Tom_L: it'll fill with chips if it's up
10:12 PM rue_mohr: up leaves rom for mechanice
10:13 PM rue_mohr: ? it leavves room for mechanics
10:13 PM rue_mohr: ok, giving up on typing
10:13 PM rue_mohr: properly
10:13 PM Tom_L: i wanted to get the external pieces modeled so i can make the frame to fit
10:13 PM rue_mohr: the virtual mockup is nice
10:14 PM Tom_L: hopefully the parts are fairly standard from china
10:14 PM Tom_L: they gave the part numbers so i googled those models
10:14 PM rue_mohr: I wonder what the screw position forgiveness is for the rails
10:14 PM Tom_L: the tubing doesn't look right as far as thickness but it's accurate
10:15 PM Tom_L: what do you mean?
10:15 PM rue_mohr: how thick you gonna use?
10:15 PM Tom_L: thick what?
10:15 PM Tom_L: it's fairly heavy
10:15 PM rue_mohr: . . * . * * ' . `
10:15 PM rue_mohr: the tube stock
10:15 PM rue_mohr: 1/8"
10:15 PM rue_mohr: ?
10:15 PM Tom_L: .085
10:15 PM rue_mohr: no, that your going to use
10:16 PM Tom_L: but i need to measure that with the real stock
10:16 PM Tom_L: it's at least that
10:16 PM rue_mohr: k
10:16 PM Tom_L: it's thick wall
10:16 PM Tom_L: i'll go check
10:16 PM Tom_L: cause i need to know anyway
10:16 PM rue_mohr: you can prolly get someone to mill the top flat for ya too
10:17 PM rue_mohr: I have a mill :) getting to it is a choar :(
10:18 PM rue_mohr: what do you think the Z slider overhead will be?
10:18 PM rue_mohr: always comes out to more than I thoguht
10:18 PM Tom_L: .179"
10:19 PM Tom_L: pretty heavy stuff
10:19 PM rue_mohr: k
10:19 PM Tom_L: i may ask my bud to mill it
10:19 PM Tom_L: he's got a bridgeport and a cnc
10:19 PM rue_mohr: it would help to flatten off the top of the tube
10:19 PM Tom_L: just whether it's tied up or not
10:20 PM rue_mohr: OR to slip some bar on it, and mill that down
10:20 PM Tom_L: i considered shims under the rails
10:20 PM rue_mohr: I'm considering milling the rails for the next one right into welded metal on it
10:21 PM Tom_L: i can add more box tube on Z to bring it out over Y further
10:21 PM Tom_L: for more useability
10:21 PM rue_mohr: the argument is about the tempering that happens when you weld it, and how machining it causes it to relax and misshape
10:21 PM rue_mohr: the spindle etc always add more than I think
10:21 PM Tom_L: technically you'd have it all annealed after welding
10:21 PM Tom_L: then ground
10:22 PM Tom_L: then heat treated again
10:22 PM rue_mohr: that last machine is about 2" out from where I thought, I only tacked ont eh uprights, sometime I need to cut them off and move thm back
10:22 PM rue_mohr: anneal... throw it on a cool bonfire?
10:23 PM Tom_L: heat it like you would for heat treat then let it cool really slow
10:23 PM rue_mohr: hmm, even a cool fire would turn it into cheese
10:23 PM Tom_L: i'll likely never build this one
10:24 PM rue_mohr: you never know, the oddds of winning the lottery AND accidently drinking from the fountian of youth aren't ZERO
10:25 PM rue_mohr: Feb I pay off my mortguage
10:25 PM Tom_L: now i need to update my tubing to the right thickness
10:25 PM Tom_L: nice
10:25 PM rue_mohr: pending any distasters, I'll have money to spend
10:25 PM rue_mohr: so maybe I'll build it
10:25 PM Tom_L: i did the tube model with formulas so it should be easy
10:28 PM rue_mohr: you might be wise to spread the upright tubes enough to slip in the triangle plate to the back tubes
10:28 PM rue_mohr: so the outter edges are, say, 1/4" apart
10:28 PM rue_mohr: weld on opposite sides
10:30 PM rue_mohr: too bad thre isn't a way of sipping a 3 speed planetary box (under solinoid control) into the head
10:31 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:31 PM Tom_L: this was just to throw something visual together
10:32 PM rue_mohr: I'm getting tempted to cut a peice of my U channel
10:32 PM rue_mohr: it would help if the damn thing didn't weigh like 200 lbs
10:34 PM Tom_L: what do you cut it with?
10:34 PM rue_mohr: I could probbaly weld on some descent-thickness angle and shape it into boxways
10:34 PM rue_mohr: I have a horiz bandsaw
10:34 PM rue_mohr: set and forget
10:34 PM Tom_L: i use abrasive disks because it's alot qucker than a saw
10:34 PM Tom_L: i have a sawzall that's about it
10:35 PM rue_mohr: nothing like going to cut a harddrive in half and comming back 6 hours later to find out its been bouncing off a bearing that took off all your teeth 5.5 hours ago
10:35 PM rue_mohr: blades aren't cheap, I was annoyed
10:36 PM Tom_L: heh
10:36 PM rue_mohr: I need a project to use some of the aluminum I'v stocked
10:37 PM rue_mohr: I was excited at the idea of casting a machine vise
10:37 PM rue_mohr: then I welded one
10:37 PM rue_mohr: I'm not getting mroe or less sleepy
10:37 PM rue_mohr: hour to bedtime, a feeling of doom is rolling over me
10:38 PM rue_mohr: dont forget to drill a venthole in the crosspeices before welding
10:38 PM Tom_L: ok tubing thickness all updated
10:38 PM rue_mohr: did you add the other cross tube?
10:39 PM Tom_L: i'm not gonna weld them solid on all 4 sides
10:39 PM rue_mohr: (back screw block)
10:39 PM Tom_L: no
10:39 PM Tom_L: not yet
10:39 PM Tom_L: another day
10:39 PM rue_mohr: well do that and repost
10:39 PM rue_mohr: its just a copy/paste/translate of the other ones
10:39 PM Tom_L: i'll calculate the thickness now and figure out what to use there
10:39 PM rue_mohr: ditto the front peice
10:39 PM Tom_L: yeah it needs to be lowered
10:40 PM rue_mohr: do that another day
10:40 PM rue_mohr: make it too low and shim it up
10:40 PM Tom_L: exactly .693
10:40 PM Tom_L: "
10:40 PM Tom_L: so maybe 3/4" and shim?
10:40 PM rue_mohr: yea
10:41 PM rue_mohr: then if it goes togethor wrong, you dont have to file it
10:41 PM rue_mohr: OR, stick 1/2" plate on the side tubes...
10:42 PM rue_mohr: and, someting...
10:42 PM Tom_L: that leaves about a .050" shim
10:42 PM rue_mohr: the pdf gave me another term I been looking for
10:42 PM rue_mohr: .193
10:43 PM rue_mohr: master slider and se... se... damnit
10:43 PM rue_mohr: not seconday
10:43 PM Tom_L: what pdf?
10:43 PM rue_mohr: that big one
10:43 PM Tom_L: oh
10:43 PM rue_mohr: with the gory levels of detail
10:44 PM rue_mohr: there is only supposed to be one master slider, the other one is just to help hold things up, not to act as a positioning guide
10:44 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:44 PM rue_mohr: less boxways, which seem to be just evil in that regard
10:45 PM rue_mohr: aren't the siders on the sherline aluminum?
10:45 PM rue_mohr: hmm
10:45 PM Tom_L: yes
10:45 PM rue_mohr: wow, its alu and alu too isn't it?
10:46 PM rue_mohr: accept the plastic gibb
10:46 PM Tom_L: the whole thing is except the Z slider
10:47 PM Tom_L: so using 1.5" tube is still too thick
10:47 PM Tom_L: need to go smaller
10:48 PM rue_mohr: nobody put a jibb on thingverse for a sherline...
10:48 PM Tom_L: or weld a plate behind the 2" for them to sit on
10:48 PM Tom_L: which isn't my first choice
10:48 PM rue_mohr: it would give a stronger mount for the rails
10:48 PM rue_mohr: more meat to machine flat too
10:48 PM Tom_L: but i might have to notch out the 2" for the screw if i lower it too much
10:50 PM rue_mohr: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1DoONIFXXXXaSXFXXq6xXFXXX8/Linear-guideway-system-vs-box-ways-pune-india-manufacturer.jpg_640x640.jpg
10:50 PM rue_mohr: did you see those?
10:50 PM rue_mohr: that caught my attention
10:50 PM Tom_L: no
10:50 PM Tom_L: those are aluminum extrusion too
10:51 PM rue_mohr: as a drive, rel. high speed, low towque
10:51 PM rue_mohr: I'm not sold on piles of force latley
10:51 PM Tom_L: maybe ok for a plasma etc where there is light lateral load
10:52 PM Tom_L: rigid means less vibration
10:52 PM Tom_L: chatter
10:52 PM Tom_L: fewer broken tools because of it
10:52 PM rue_mohr: the vert of my old machine is just via bolts at the bottom
10:52 PM rue_mohr: its providing a lot of vibration
10:52 PM rue_mohr: thinking of welding it
10:53 PM Tom_L: i haven't quite decided how to do that and get it square
10:53 PM Tom_L: it should have a way to adjust it
10:53 PM Tom_L: maybe
10:53 PM Tom_L: or at least initially
10:53 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc/p1030107.jpg
10:53 PM rue_mohr: just a bolt at the bottom
10:53 PM rue_mohr: but it was origionally only spec'd for wood
10:54 PM rue_mohr: (and foam)
10:54 PM Tom_L: i bet it got overworked too
10:54 PM Tom_L: right?
10:54 PM rue_mohr: :)
10:54 PM Tom_L: so make one good one and done
10:54 PM rue_mohr: hand coded, didn't use it much
10:54 PM rue_mohr: and it was unregulated current, unipolar drivers, so SLOW
10:54 PM Tom_L: i bet i've had the sherline 25 yrs
10:55 PM rue_mohr: I'm gradually upgrading it
10:55 PM rue_mohr: I did the Y axis a few weeks back
10:55 PM Tom_L: i don't remember where what i got this tube for but i had a couple chunks of it
10:55 PM rue_mohr: need to swap out the Z motor for one that can be bipolar driven
10:55 PM Tom_L: not near enough to make the mill but enough to see if it would do the job
10:56 PM rue_mohr: that old thigns brazed :)
10:56 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Ship-4pcs-High-Torque-Nema23-Stepper-Motor-425oz-in-2-8N-m-4-Lead-DIY-CNC-Kit/263268354293?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
10:56 PM Tom_L: those are still nema 23
10:56 PM rue_mohr: in '97/98 I used the the school shop to T the table rails
10:57 PM rue_mohr: $100
10:57 PM Tom_L: for 4
10:57 PM rue_mohr: whats the cost est so far?
10:57 PM rue_mohr: you must be $800
10:57 PM Tom_L: i'm not estimating it
10:57 PM Tom_L: no
10:57 PM Tom_L: the rails is the biggest cost
10:57 PM rue_mohr: rail package, steppesr, drivers,
10:57 PM Tom_L: i have drivers etc
10:57 PM Tom_L: all ready to go
10:57 PM rue_mohr: steel is not cheap anymore
10:58 PM Tom_L: see i planned ahead when i did the sherline
10:58 PM Tom_L: the box is ready to be plugged into this
10:58 PM Tom_L: 18A 48v
10:58 PM Tom_L: stepper drivers are good for 7A 80v
10:58 PM rue_mohr: I should get armyofevilrobots to tell me if the sherline jogs faster under grbl than it would with mach3
10:58 PM Tom_L: and they're set for 2.5A right now
10:59 PM Tom_L: 80ipm
10:59 PM Tom_L: is what i can do
10:59 PM rue_mohr: wuf
10:59 PM Tom_L: i'm tellin ya, mesa stuff is nice
10:59 PM Tom_L: that's rapid
10:59 PM Tom_L: not milling
10:59 PM rue_mohr: yea
10:59 PM Tom_L: with the stock screws
11:00 PM Tom_L: more than that and it skips
11:00 PM Tom_L: but i think i throttled it back from that to be safe
11:00 PM rue_mohr: my machines are limited by the friction in the drive screws
11:00 PM Tom_L: i understand ballscrews help that a tremendous amount
11:00 PM rue_mohr: I think I top out, on my new machine, about 60mm/min?
11:00 PM rue_mohr: yea
11:01 PM rue_mohr: 90% of the force is in the drive scerw
11:01 PM Tom_L: and the rails
11:01 PM rue_mohr: no, thats the other 10% for me
11:01 PM Tom_L: bak in a min
11:01 PM rue_mohr: a screw will 'scale down' a LOT of bed force
11:07 PM Tom_L: ok
11:08 PM Tom_L: i'll likely be mounting the sherline spindle to it for now too
11:09 PM rue_mohr: just for its bearing block and taper?
11:09 PM Tom_L: i've got tooling for it
11:09 PM rue_mohr: do you know the P/N for the head bearings on the sherline?
11:09 PM rue_mohr: +- not now
11:09 PM Tom_L: no but they're rated for 6000+ rpm
11:10 PM Tom_L: why?
11:10 PM Tom_L: they goin bad on ya?
11:10 PM rue_mohr: I'm worried I'm gonna wear out (or are going to wear out) armyofevilrobot s
11:10 PM rue_mohr: no, I finished off the origional brushes in his motor
11:10 PM rue_mohr: thinking ahead
11:10 PM Tom_L: https://i3micro.org/2010/01/26/replacing-sherline-spindle-bearings/
11:10 PM Tom_L: see if that says
11:11 PM rue_mohr: I'm 33% of the way thru the brushes in the new one I just made
11:11 PM rue_mohr: smaller motor tho
11:11 PM Tom_L: 6004ZZ
11:11 PM rue_mohr: 6004ZZ
11:11 PM rue_mohr: cool
11:11 PM rue_mohr: I can make the rest
11:11 PM rue_mohr: :)
11:11 PM Tom_L: yep
11:12 PM Tom_L: or make one to fit an R8
11:12 PM rue_mohr: :-| R8?
11:12 PM Tom_L: bridgeport size
11:13 PM Tom_L: collets
11:13 PM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/R8-Series-Spring-Collet-Chuck-Tool-Bit-Holder-Select-Diameter-From-3mm-To-20mm/2035476747.html
11:13 PM rue_mohr: ouch, but hmmm
11:14 PM rue_mohr: much more ridgid than the other one
11:14 PM Tom_L: iirc there's about 10-15 in a set
11:14 PM rue_mohr: aha, R8 to E32
11:14 PM Tom_L: from tiny to 1" or so
11:15 PM rue_mohr: I have an ER16 here thats pretty big
11:15 PM Tom_L: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Professional-Metric-R8-Collet-Clamping-Hole-Size-3mm-65Mn-Steel-High-Hardness-Milling-Collet-Chuck-For/32776279280.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000014.4.5b2064dc76EqkM&traffic_analysisId=recommend_3035_null_null_null&scm=1007.13338.80878.000000000000000&pvid=35a547a9-a507-402b-9576-87b5e1bc6090&tpp=1
11:15 PM rue_mohr: :-| oooooohhhhh...
11:16 PM Tom_L: but you need the collet tube for it too
11:16 PM Tom_L: to clamp em down on
11:16 PM rue_mohr: but I only ever use 1/8" and 1/4"
11:16 PM Tom_L: uses a pull rod to tighten em
11:16 PM Tom_L: ok
11:16 PM Tom_L: so go with that
11:16 PM Tom_L: you may go bigger if your mill is better
11:16 PM rue_mohr: wait, thats still 1pcs
11:16 PM Tom_L: oh
11:17 PM rue_mohr: anyhow
11:17 PM Tom_L: brb
11:17 PM Tom_L: gettin stuff ready for tomorrow
11:18 PM rue_mohr: how about like an MT2?
11:20 PM Tom_L: NO
11:20 PM rue_mohr: ? with drawbar?
11:20 PM Tom_L: btw, inside the sherline is a MT2
11:20 PM Tom_L: with the drawbar (screw)
11:20 PM rue_mohr: MT2 stuff is cheap
11:20 PM Tom_L: for a reason
11:21 PM rue_mohr: my lathe uses MT
11:21 PM Tom_L: used on drill presses not mills
11:21 PM rue_mohr: I think I have 4 thru 2 adapters
11:21 PM Tom_L: because it's pushing not lateral force
11:21 PM rue_mohr: yes, but with a drawbar it should be ok, yes?
11:21 PM Tom_L: for 1/4" i suppose
11:22 PM Tom_L: i use 3/8" cutters on mine sometimes
11:22 PM Tom_L: and a little 2" face mill etc
11:22 PM rue_mohr: MT3?
11:22 PM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Milling-Collet-Chuck-Holder-ER20-MT2-M10-Taper-Collet-Chuck-Holder-Face-Milling-Arbor-Adapter-Suit/32832116892.html
11:22 PM rue_mohr: mt2 w/ drawbar
11:29 PM Tom_L: hmm
11:30 PM rue_mohr: I think everything else I ahve it MT
11:30 PM rue_mohr: I dont know if I can make a good MT cut, I could try
11:30 PM rue_mohr: it would allow me to stick with a theme
11:31 PM Tom_L: it's not much taper
11:31 PM rue_mohr: I dont know what the milling machine is
11:32 PM rue_mohr: I dont think I tried any of the tapers in my lathe
11:35 PM Tom_L: gnite