#robotics Logs
Jul 23 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:00 AM Jak_o_Shadows: always the smae printer
12:02 AM Jak_o_Shadows: THe frame is DIY. It's not as nice as it should be
12:02 AM rue_shop3: hmm what kinda zero sensor are you using?
12:02 AM Jak_o_Shadows: microswitch
12:02 AM Jak_o_Shadows: It isn't secured as well as it should be. Good point.
12:02 AM Jak_o_Shadows: It isn't mounted onto anything too well.
12:02 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Perhaps I should fix that.
12:02 AM Jak_o_Shadows: It's working now though
12:02 AM rue_shop3: yar, any online pics of it?
12:03 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Of the zero sensor? nah
12:04 AM rue_shop3: the machien in general
12:04 AM rue_shop3: what type? i2? i3? tripod?
12:05 AM Jak_o_Shadows: i3
12:05 AM rue_shop3: hmm
12:05 AM rue_shop3: z steppers on top or bottom?
12:05 AM Jak_o_Shadows: y-ends are not rod, instead a solid piece of wood.
12:05 AM Jak_o_Shadows: Bottom
12:06 AM Jak_o_Shadows: the whole x-carriage assembly (including x-ends) are flipped about the x-axis because I mmade a mistake initially
12:06 AM rue_shop3: which way is the spring-tension on the axis of the stepper, down, or up?
12:06 AM Jak_o_Shadows: tha's taken care of in software
12:06 AM Jak_o_Shadows: ?
12:07 AM rue_shop3: well, MOST steppers have axial play, they use a spring to hold the axis against the front or back of the motor
12:07 AM rue_shop3: MOST steppers hold the shaft against the front of the motor
12:07 AM rue_shop3: so, on most i3, the z is sitting on the spring of the stepper motor
12:07 AM rue_shop3: which is ludicrous
12:08 AM rue_shop3: you may find that if you pull, push on the z motors, it springs one way
12:08 AM rue_shop3: will usually push (just a hair)
12:22 AM Jak_o_Shadows: oh yeah
12:22 AM Jak_o_Shadows: makes sense
12:25 AM rue_shop3: which way do your spring?
12:25 AM rue_shop3: up, or down? (or none?)
12:59 AM rue_shop3: ?
01:24 AM Anniepoo_: reading about capacitive touch sensor board
01:26 AM Jak_o_Ombroj: Dunno. Would have to disconnect the coupler, not inclined to do that
01:50 AM rue_shop3: no, you just pull and push on the shaft
01:50 AM rue_shop3: it'll probably move one way
01:50 AM rue_shop3: ...
01:53 AM Jak_o_Ombroj: Can't tell really
02:57 AM rue_house: maybe there is none on yours
03:07 AM Jak_o_Ombroj: yeah.
03:07 AM Jak_o_Ombroj: I really need to tell cura to do less bottom layers
03:14 AM Jak_o_Ombroj: My y-axis may be skipping - taking great big 5mm steps on occasion
03:14 AM Jak_o_Ombroj: bugger it for this weekend
03:23 AM rue_bed: I 2:1 geared mine on my new machine
03:24 AM rue_bed: the motors are more than good on speed and short of torque
04:06 AM Jak_o_Ombroj: good idea
10:08 AM ramdas: Guys, please suggest some good fundamental to advanced books for Learning Kinematics and dynamics...
10:51 AM rue_bed: hmm
10:52 AM rue_bed: have you read the programmers manual for an ABB IRB1400?
11:59 AM rue_house: arg, it looks like china's thread of choice is BSP
12:01 PM veverak: well
12:01 PM veverak: it looks
12:02 PM veverak: like I will buy ship model kit soon!
12:02 PM veverak: :)
12:02 PM rue_house: 1/2 scale?
12:02 PM rue_house: ;)
12:02 PM rue_house: of a container ship?
12:03 PM rue_house: apparently 3/8 npt is a really popular size on engies
12:05 PM veverak: nope
12:05 PM veverak: small scale sailboat
12:05 PM veverak: really simple
12:05 PM veverak: I never did anything even close to it
12:05 PM veverak: 0 experience with wood and so on
12:05 PM veverak: rue_house: but if it's going to be success
12:05 PM veverak: I was thinking of container ship with solar panel, gps and autonavigation
12:06 PM veverak: :)
12:06 PM rue_house: yea 1/2 scale
12:06 PM rue_house: "registration? dont be stupid, its a model!"
12:17 PM veverak: :D
12:17 PM veverak: algorithm for sailboat could be interesting
12:17 PM veverak: however I would go propably with paddle boat for the robot
12:25 PM rue_house: if most pipe taps from china are $6, I presume I shouldn't buy one thats $3 or I'll regret it
12:26 PM rue_house: prolly be curved or soemthing
12:51 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLSIRflKtEo - related video on some plug cutters.
01:10 PM rue_house: those are definitly production seconds
01:10 PM rue_house: prolly ok with a cleanup
01:15 PM SpeedEvil: yes.
01:15 PM SpeedEvil: I have yet to actually check - the flash I am in some ways unconcerned about, the quality of the metal I have real suspicitons of
01:16 PM rue_house: it looks like it was hardened
01:16 PM rue_house: atleast oil treated
01:16 PM anniepoo: life's too short to buy cheap taps
01:16 PM anniepoo: 8cD
01:17 PM rue_house: but if I'm only tapping plastic
01:17 PM anniepoo: the broken tap remains long after the sweetness of saving money has been forgotten
01:17 PM rue_house: ok milk, broom, mop bucket, ....
01:17 PM anniepoo: 8cD and always in an expensive part
01:17 PM rue_house: usually an aluminum part
01:18 PM anniepoo: I am a fan of cheap tools.
01:18 PM anniepoo: yes, true
01:18 PM rue_house: "paper shredder oil" <<-- amazing
01:18 PM rue_house: oh, I should buy some!
01:18 PM anniepoo: 8cD it's light oil, I bet
01:18 PM rue_house: na its goopy
01:18 PM rue_house: its like slimey, amazing difference
01:19 PM rue_house: I dont think the two maerials make contact
01:19 PM rue_house: all the metal-metal noise just goes away
01:20 PM rue_house: https://www.amazon.ca/Fellowes-Powershred-Performance-Oil-Clear/dp/B00006I58N/ref=sr_1_1
01:20 PM rue_house: THAT STUFF
01:20 PM rue_house: never seen anything like it for cutting oil
01:20 PM SpeedEvil: There is historic precedent for using hydrocarbons to reduce noise.
01:21 PM SpeedEvil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren_%28mythology%29#Odyssey
01:22 PM z64555: lol? what they do, throw a bucket of oil on the sirens?
01:22 PM * z64555 waits for page to load
01:22 PM anniepoo: Gad Saad would love this channel
01:24 PM rue_house: haha, some people are selling that bottle of shredder oil for $50
01:24 PM SpeedEvil: (plug ears with wax so as to not hear the sirens)
01:32 PM anniepoo: veverak, the container ship kit sounds fun
01:32 PM anniepoo: =8cO half scale?
01:33 PM rue_house: :)
01:33 PM rue_house: "its ok, its just a model"
01:33 PM anniepoo: there's an on again off again project "ZHTA", Zero Handed Trans Atlantic
01:34 PM anniepoo: to get a sailboat across the atlantic with no one aboard
01:35 PM anniepoo: (interestingly, this is actually easier than diesel - which the narcos have been trying for years - basically, they've never found a way to clear the diesel's strainers automatically)
01:35 PM anniepoo: (I watch a lot of trashy youtube)
01:36 PM rue_house: iiiinteresting
01:36 PM rue_house: soy bean oil is exactly the same price as shredder oil
01:47 PM anniepoo: 8cD
01:48 PM anniepoo: Uh, bet it's cheaper at the grocery store
01:49 PM anniepoo: Crisco 'pure vegetable' oil (not the shortening, the crisco brand cooking oil) is soybean oil
01:51 PM anniepoo: I'm making a thing for work to visualize our data, and having WAAAY too much fun with D3
02:05 PM rue_house: oh
02:06 PM rue_house: is soy bean oil 'goopy'?
02:08 PM rue_house: interseting, cause the msds for the shredder oil says its vegitalble oil
02:08 PM rue_house: not that I found it personally
02:10 PM rue_house: I'm not sure what to spend the last $16usd of play money on
02:10 PM rue_house: microcontrollers? stepper drivers? hobby servos?
02:11 PM rue_house: adul
02:11 PM rue_house: YOU SHUT UP
02:11 PM rue_house: ...
02:12 PM rue_house: I'm gonna go shopping and hit the scrap metal recycler
02:12 PM rue_house: ditch a bunch more metal
02:13 PM rue_house: think on what to buy
02:13 PM rue_house: I could get more stm32 maybe
02:13 PM rue_house: enough SG90 for a 18 axis hexapod
02:14 PM rue_house: actually, its a bit too tight for that
02:14 PM rue_house: it would be fun tho
02:14 PM rue_house: <<
02:14 PM rue_house: >>
02:15 PM rue_house: I can get an SG90 for $1, free shipping in volumes of 1
02:15 PM rue_house: so I'd need to buy from 16 different sellers
02:16 PM rue_house: ooh I can dial it up to 5 with this guy
02:23 PM rue_house: so, do 4 with that one
02:23 PM rue_house: 3 with this one
02:23 PM rue_house: 2 with this one
02:23 PM rue_house: and... hmm
02:23 PM rue_house: leaves me 1 short
02:25 PM z64555: vegatable oil congeals/polymerizes the longer it's exposed to air
02:25 PM veverak: nah
02:25 PM veverak: my git culture is terrible
02:40 PM rue_shop3: it occurs to me that if I won the lottery, I'd have the most massive aliexpress order ther'd be seen in a long time
02:47 PM veverak: :D :D
03:17 PM anniepoo: of course soy beans are a vegetable
03:17 PM anniepoo: it's cooking oil
03:30 PM Tom_L: good luck ordering from amazon?
03:54 PM rue_shop3: no, for $8 I got like a litre
03:54 PM rue_shop3: anniepoos point was completely valid
03:54 PM rue_shop3: it looks goopy, I'll try it later
03:55 PM rue_shop3: but right now its too hot to think
04:05 PM mynameis: hello anyone experienced with GPS
04:09 PM Tom_L: i use google maps
04:11 PM ace4016: have a specific question mynameis? probing is usually looked down upon
04:12 PM mynameis: i wanted to know whats some economical submeter gps solutions
04:15 PM Tom_L: the one i had was very old
04:15 PM JT-Shop: I thought only high end military was submeter and normal is 10 meter box
04:16 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/SBC/GPS/
04:17 PM Tom_L: it was part of a commercial vehicle tracking system
04:18 PM JT-Shop: like truck tracking
04:18 PM Tom_L: yup
04:18 PM mynameis: well you have the survey grade gp
04:18 PM mynameis: s
04:18 PM mynameis: and mapping gps
04:18 PM mynameis: just that survey grade (sub cm) is like 10k
04:18 PM mynameis: =(
04:19 PM JT-Shop: I use the gps to fly my drone...
04:19 PM mynameis: me 2
04:20 PM mynameis: what drone you got?
04:20 PM JT-Shop: Tarot 680 Pro and Wayland S500, trying to get the S500 airborne
04:21 PM JT-Shop: I also have smaller ones like the Q100 and Tweaker 5"
04:21 PM Tom_L: do you wear a helmet?
04:21 PM mynameis: i have a mavic pro =(
04:21 PM mynameis: noob stuff
04:21 PM mynameis: what do you do 3d mapping?
04:21 PM JT-Shop: I have the EV800 goggles
04:21 PM JT-Shop: just fly around lol
04:22 PM JT-Shop: I'm setting up the Eagle Tree Vector on my S500
04:22 PM mynameis: http://imgur.com/a/m9fSJ
04:22 PM mynameis: my 3d maps keep coming out retarded
04:23 PM JT-Shop: does look a bit strange like Langoliers
04:23 PM * JT-Shop goes to let the chickens free range for a while now that it's not so hot
04:27 PM anniepoo: 8cD
04:27 PM anniepoo: far out
05:29 PM peeps[work]: i'm looking for some example of diy robot (arms mainly) that use cable/string to transmit power, somewhat like a bicycle brake, automotive throttle cable
05:30 PM peeps[work]: is something like that commonly done?
05:32 PM peeps[work]: is there a term for that? i see a few "cable driven" robots but those are mostly where the cables splay out to corners of a cube for positioning, i'm thinking a more contained cable in sleeve sort of thing, where the length of cable travels down the length of the arm itself
05:35 PM peeps[work]: i have an idea for a variation on cable drive that I think could be really versatile and scalable for transmitting power and for mechanical advantage. it could make robot arms really simple and low cost, but I'm kinda surprised i haven't seen it before
05:35 PM peeps[work]: still working on a proof of concept
05:35 PM peeps[work]: but it seems very feasible
05:43 PM peeps[work]: i plan to make the design open-source eventually, but am cautious to explain details before I have something to show. honestly kinda afraid someone will steal the idea and patent it or something, but I don't want to go through the trouble/cost of patenting myself. i could see a lot of potential for new products and a lot of money to be made based on this
05:46 PM peeps[work]: i guess my dilemna is that i'd like share the design in an open way, but still would like to be able to make some income for the invention
05:47 PM peeps[work]: so i can quit my day job and focus on this stuff full time
05:47 PM peeps[work]: anyone alive? :P
05:47 PM mynameis: so it looks like ublox is the only solution
05:50 PM peeps[work]: hi mynameis
05:55 PM mynameis: sup
05:56 PM peeps[work]: mynameis, not much, you doing some GPS stuff?
05:56 PM mynameis: im trying to learn about it
05:57 PM mynameis: checking out how to get high precision gps on a budget
06:04 PM ace4016: i hear you can use cellphone towers and some other signals to further figure it out
06:06 PM anniepoo: peeps, rue has built cable powered robots of the not-a-cube variety
06:06 PM deshipu: scandalous
06:15 PM peeps[work]: anniepoo, i was searching some more online, i guess a lot of animatronic puppets use a similar kind of cable control system, but a lot of that info is behind paywall for expensive classes. i think what i want is referred to a pull-pull cable control, with a sheath
06:20 PM anniepoo: so, do you want pull-pull, or push-pull?
06:21 PM ansi is now known as ansi__
06:21 PM anniepoo: eg a pivoting bar and a couple ropes, pull on one or the other, that's pull pull
06:22 PM anniepoo: push-pull is like a manual choke in a car - stiff wire in a tube
06:23 PM anniepoo: then there's like a bike brake cable - spring one way, cable pulling the other
06:28 PM peeps[work]: definitely pull-pull
06:29 PM peeps[work]: i was wrong to compare to bike cable. what I want is a bit different
06:29 PM anniepoo: ok
06:29 PM anniepoo: Rue has a couple robot arms on this principle
06:29 PM anniepoo: how big?
06:29 PM peeps[work]: got any links?
06:29 PM anniepoo: what's application?
06:30 PM peeps[work]: light duty work, an arm with the power of a small child
06:31 PM anniepoo: ok
06:31 PM zhanx: pull pull has springs to help return to neutral
06:31 PM anniepoo: consider a bicycle chain
06:31 PM peeps[work]: i'm thinking dyneema line
06:32 PM anniepoo: remember that tension on chain will by multiplied by ratio of arm length to sprocket radius
06:32 PM zhanx: bicycle cable is enough, heck i use a pull-pull on my toy as a throttle linkage
06:33 PM anniepoo: very light weight - Rue recommended 'tiger tail' beading string. It's actually a very small laid steel cable (like aircraft cable) encased in plastic
06:33 PM anniepoo: thin stainless steel aircraft cable
06:33 PM anniepoo: whats force on arm?
06:35 PM anniepoo: I don't know the limit force on children's arm legs, but I got several thousand lbs of tension from a class of 4th graders on a line once.
06:35 PM zhanx: less than 12nm for my throttle
06:36 PM peeps[work]: i think a nice target load would be lifting 10lbs at 1ft from pivot or 5kg at 30cm, about 14-15 Newton meters
06:38 PM squirrel1: peeps[work]: there are open source licenses that prevent commercial for free
06:39 PM zhanx: think my throttle linkage is 20 pounds but with the gear on it, its easy for the fingers to move
06:39 PM squirrel1: peeps[work]: meaning, license says "it's free as long as you don't make any money with it, than you have to contact the owner of the license to discuss fee"
06:39 PM squirrel1: or, something in that spirit
06:39 PM squirrel1 is now known as veverak
06:39 PM anniepoo: peeps, how fast?
06:40 PM peeps[work]: lets say rotate 90 degrees in one or two second
06:41 PM zhanx: so slow then
06:41 PM peeps[work]: well, just trying to set feasible goals, obviously faster would be a lot cooler :)
06:41 PM anniepoo: so work out acceleration
06:43 PM anniepoo: but I'd say some 0.030 SS cable
06:44 PM zhanx: or spider wire fishing line its cheaper
06:45 PM anniepoo: is that strong enough?
06:45 PM zhanx: anniepoo: fyi my kid decided all the cardboard i cut yesterday was his toys. so snail might happen in two weeks I hope
06:46 PM anniepoo: LOL
06:46 PM zhanx: anniepoo: yes its strong
06:46 PM anniepoo: so what sorta snail are you building?
06:46 PM zhanx: remember the mini of yours
06:46 PM anniepoo: I know I gave you a copy of the 3D file, yes.
06:47 PM zhanx: i finally got around to cutting out the thing (paper on card board) and yea i have to get more ink and start over again
06:47 PM anniepoo: I'm just curious, if it's a static statuette, or a robot, and if so what it's like?
06:47 PM zhanx: oh robot, i was gonna fiberglass mold it
06:47 PM zhanx: but tracked to move
06:48 PM peeps[work]: zhanx, i have some of this 100lb test line https://www.amazon.com/MagicShield-Dyneema-Strong-Braided-Fishing/dp/B009661Y72
06:48 PM zhanx: i cut out a scaled to 8.5x11 version by hand
06:49 PM zhanx: peeps[work]: that will work. do it cheap to test it, upgrade as needed later
06:49 PM anniepoo: Nice!
06:49 PM zhanx: and since you are not pulling 100 pounds at once its should make 120-130 before it breaks
06:49 PM peeps[work]: i'm wondering how much precision i can get, if it will want to sag/stretch a lot
06:50 PM anniepoo: So Pomatia's truly getting a little sister ... er... brother...
06:50 PM zhanx: gary yes
06:50 PM anniepoo: peeps, the dynamic force of accelerating the load must be accounted for
06:50 PM zhanx: after work i need to grab ink, and print what another 50 some sheets out
06:50 PM anniepoo: LOL
06:50 PM zhanx: and take another month of free time to cut them out
06:51 PM anniepoo: zhanx, are you in the US or CA?
06:51 PM zhanx: us
06:51 PM anniepoo: how big do you want it?
06:51 PM zhanx: 8x10 foot print for the base is best i can do
06:52 PM anniepoo: ??????
06:52 PM anniepoo: 8x10 FEET?
06:53 PM zhanx: oh sorry, i was going off what i can print, smaller like 18" x 8"x10" was the plan
06:53 PM anniepoo: ah!
06:53 PM anniepoo: that's about 3/4 Pomatia's size
06:53 PM peeps[work]: do companies/legal system really respect CC-NC licenses? has any case gone to court?
06:53 PM zhanx: kid was talking to me when i typed that
06:53 PM zhanx: peeps[work]: not really and lots have
06:54 PM zhanx: heck i had a guy stealing my opensource code for an esp weather station, and that is now done
06:54 PM peeps[work]: patents have 20year term, is cc supposed to be indefinite?
06:55 PM anniepoo: you want it layered cardboard?
06:55 PM zhanx: anniepoo: yes so i can cover it and mold a shell
06:55 PM anniepoo: I have 0.118 corrugated fiberboard
06:55 PM anniepoo: cool - that's what I did
06:55 PM zhanx: that the plastic stuff?
06:55 PM anniepoo: no, this is corrugated cardboard, the same stuff as paper boxes
06:56 PM zhanx: anniepoo: k. and can't pay you for it, i just ordered stuff to make a batch of beer for the fall (large batch)
06:56 PM anniepoo: oh, wasn't expecting payment
06:56 PM anniepoo: might take me a few days to get around to it
06:56 PM zhanx: English Ale for a wedding :D as a donation to the groom
06:57 PM zhanx: k
06:57 PM peeps[work]: zhanx, i think the problem is what is considered a derivative work. if they reverse engineer the design and don't use any of the original source models/OpenSCAD code, then someone could make a competing product that wouldn't be subject to my license?
06:57 PM veverak: ok
06:57 PM veverak: templates are dark magic
06:57 PM zhanx: peeps[work]: thats lawyer stuff there
06:57 PM anniepoo: zhanx, you want shell + body or just shell , or ????
06:57 PM zhanx: I redid slam without knowing about slam, but my code was very very simular
06:58 PM zhanx: body+shell
06:58 PM anniepoo: ok
06:58 PM anniepoo: you got it!
06:58 PM zhanx: the rest is i want to make, and SWEEET
06:58 PM zhanx: my roomba is gonna hate me!
06:58 PM anniepoo: 8cD
06:58 PM zhanx: but the kids are gonna love it
06:59 PM anniepoo: it'll come with holes in each piece - probably 1/4"
06:59 PM zhanx: alignment holes right?
06:59 PM anniepoo: put the bottom layer down, use as template to drill a couple good straight holes in a piece of wood
06:59 PM anniepoo: and yup, insert dowels
07:00 PM zhanx: ok following.
07:00 PM peeps[work]: i might be being overly optimistic about the performance of my design, or overly cautious about being left in the dust by copycats, but I feel like some of the specific problems my design solves could make this approach really take off.
07:00 PM zhanx: peeps[work]: you never know
07:00 PM zhanx: anniepoo: i got fiberglass bondo. way better filler to use on it
07:01 PM zhanx: its rock hard and free from work
07:01 PM zhanx: and a new pencil air grinder for the detail work
07:03 PM anniepoo: yes - I spent a lot of time working on it, then discovered the magic of bondo + a 'flap wheel'
07:03 PM zhanx: yep
07:04 PM zhanx: remember i am a mechanic so bondo stuff i know
07:04 PM anniepoo: angle grinder, with the kind of wheel that's made up of overlapping strips of sandpaper
07:04 PM anniepoo: ah, yes!
07:04 PM anniepoo: what are you using for a chassis?
07:04 PM anniepoo: mine fits an OSEPP 'tank' chassis
07:05 PM anniepoo: I'll probably have to swap motors, the snail's gotten heavy
07:05 PM zhanx: was thinking a roomba or making one. but the kids have a ton of old rc tanks and cars etc
07:06 PM anniepoo: mbrumlow has one of these chassis, and cautioned me that it tends to tangle in carpet. He took the treads off and drives on the road wheels
07:06 PM zhanx: also need to make it light weight, wife wants a race track with different bodies for the kids to race different characters
07:07 PM zhanx: so i might vacuum mold it
07:08 PM anniepoo: that'd be less work. I think the cardboard's strong enough to vacuum form over
07:08 PM anniepoo: I covered my cardboard with plaster bandage cloth
07:08 PM anniepoo: that worked well
07:08 PM zhanx: after i fill it yep
07:08 PM zhanx: lines need to be smooth for that
07:11 PM anniepoo: yes, I covered with bandage, then a bit of plaster, then sanded down
08:20 PM veverak: nah nah
08:20 PM veverak: simple template magic
08:20 PM veverak: and one can mage C++ more safe
08:20 PM veverak: :)
08:56 PM veverak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT3xcY1s1kQ pppppoooooooooorn
09:15 PM Casper: I want something that go 40ft high! without twisting, work even in canadian winter
09:15 PM Casper: and inexpensive!
10:48 PM The_Jester: Rue, i was thinking if i am building this ed209 modal than technicaly i am building robots atm
11:01 PM anniepoo: that's a pretty cool arrangement for a lift
11:58 PM rue_shop3: ^k
11:58 PM rue_shop3: hmm
11:58 PM rue_shop3: The_Jester, just got back form supper with ma
11:58 PM The_Jester: :)