#robotics Logs
Jul 10 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:17 AM LuminaxWk: when you can learn almost everything from youtube :3
12:20 AM LuminaxWk: <-- learnt arc welding and mig welding from youtube
01:03 AM rue_shop3: more neat things stripped from the medical machine on the deck
01:03 AM rue_shop3: Tom_itx, I recall when there was just a drum set
01:03 AM rue_shop3: then 5 boxes
01:03 AM rue_shop3: then benches...
01:03 AM rue_shop3: I recall once upon a time there was a clear work table
01:05 AM rue_shop3: now there are 2 lawn mowing robots blocking the front door
01:05 AM rue_shop3: a hexapod taking of 1/4 of the workbench
01:05 AM rue_shop3: a verry large robot arm taking up another 1/8 of the bench
01:06 AM rue_shop3: half the electronics workstation taken up by a cnc machine and a 3d printer
01:06 AM rue_shop3: there is a table router sitting infront of all the welding gear
01:13 AM rue_shop3: there are 5 HCTL-1100 digital PID controllers here
01:13 AM rue_shop3: I thought they were using them to control steppers, but I think I was wrong
01:14 AM rue_shop3: I think they controlled 5 dc servomotors
01:26 AM rue_shop3: cant find the 5th motor, for sure
01:26 AM rue_shop3: L6202
01:27 AM rue_shop3: yea those are for the dc motor
01:27 AM rue_shop3: s
01:32 AM rue_shop3: L297
01:51 AM rue_shop3: the L297 is a 20 pin chip
01:52 AM rue_shop3: the tiny26 is a 20 pin chip
01:52 AM rue_shop3: to run a H bridge, the L297 needs 4 external and gates
01:54 AM rue_shop3: with the pin count on the tiny26, I could run 2x motors better than the L297 in the same space
01:55 AM rue_shop3: this is what it means to be obsolete
01:57 AM rue_shop3: jester would have a field day, I just pulled the 3rd metal sliver out of my foot in a week
01:58 AM rue_shop3: "your shop is NOT safe to have bare feet Rue!" pfffff
01:59 AM rue_shop3: the L6202 are usefull
01:59 AM rue_shop3: the HCTL-1100 I'm not so sure about
02:04 AM rue_shop3: somehow I suspect, if I try, I can make a good PID system in something smaller than the 40 pin DIP they are...
02:05 AM LuminaxWk: mmmm metal sliver
02:06 AM LuminaxWk: I used to have a magnifying eyepiece and a tweezer and nail clip handy just in case
02:06 AM LuminaxWk: those pieces from milling mild-steel / hardened steel sticks down reaaally well
02:07 AM LuminaxWk: one time I had to slice some hardened skin off just to get it out <_<
02:07 AM rue_shop3: I dont go bare footed in my shop if there has been any stainless work done
02:07 AM rue_shop3: not till there have been a few good sweepings
02:10 AM LuminaxWk: and aluminium shavings can fly extremely far
02:12 AM rue_shop3: waaait a sec, the 1100 dosn't output pwm
02:12 AM rue_shop3: so... how did they manage that
02:15 AM rue_shop3: wait wait
02:15 AM rue_shop3: so, they use the 1100 for processing, read the result values, and generate their own pwm?
02:16 AM rue_shop3: oooh nono it can generate pwm
02:17 AM LuminaxWk: 1100?
02:18 AM rue_shop3: HCTL-1100 its ~$50 chip
02:18 AM rue_shop3: there are 5 on this board
02:20 AM LuminaxWk: Broadcom general purpose motion control :o
02:20 AM rue_shop3: aligent
02:21 AM LuminaxWk: ah HP
02:21 AM rue_shop3: I with people would stop buying people
02:21 AM rue_shop3: wish
02:22 AM LuminaxWk: o.O you mean M&A ?
02:22 AM rue_shop3: this chip does a LOT of things tho
02:22 AM rue_shop3: like controlling brushless motor commutation
02:23 AM rue_shop3: while controlling trapazoidal velocity profiles
02:23 AM rue_shop3: with encoder feedback
02:24 AM Snert: who begat who? Is it it HP or is it Agilent now?
02:24 AM Snert: who ate up who?
02:24 AM LuminaxWk: sounds like high end servo controller chip
02:24 AM rue_shop3: I dont care
02:24 AM LuminaxWk: it's Keysight now
02:24 AM rue_shop3: it could be Wonka himself, I dont care
02:25 AM LuminaxWk: Agilent has been bestowed upon their more niche instrument market
02:25 AM LuminaxWk: heh wonka...
02:25 AM Snert: ok...so agilent is most likely the one I need for replacement displays for my project.
02:25 AM rue_shop3: ? what kinda display
02:26 AM LuminaxWk: Agilent: Chemical Analysis and Diagnostics
02:26 AM rue_shop3: why do you people start talking on midnight sunday?
02:26 AM LuminaxWk: Keysight: Test equipments
02:26 AM rue_shop3: aligent makes cool stuff
02:26 AM LuminaxWk: it's... 14:55 here
02:26 AM LuminaxWk: I'm at work :3
02:26 AM Snert: they're hi end milspec 8 digit intelligent displays.
02:26 AM rue_shop3: if you get an aligent chip, its probably something cool
02:26 AM rue_shop3: "high end"
02:26 AM rue_shop3: = good refresh rate?
02:27 AM Snert: good enuff to put in a tank.
02:27 AM LuminaxWk: milspec so probably quite robust
02:27 AM Snert: or an F16.
02:27 AM rue_shop3: or when you write a 6, you get it with a hat and not just the cheap 6 like from a 7447
02:27 AM rue_shop3: ?
02:27 AM LuminaxWk: it might not even be LED
02:27 AM LuminaxWk: VFD ?
02:28 AM rue_shop3: mil spec is usually just expanded temp range
02:28 AM rue_shop3: so, for an assembly, I'd be curious
02:28 AM LuminaxWk: and a bit more robust mechanical design usually
02:28 AM LuminaxWk: they're going to charge you through the nose for those 'robust design'
02:28 AM Snert: HDSP-2133. Right, good down to -30 or somesuch.
02:29 AM Snert: I only have 1 I'm playing with.
02:29 AM Snert: driving it via SPI.
02:29 AM LuminaxWk: ah, dot matrix
02:29 AM Snert: with built in decoder.
02:29 AM Snert: vewy vewy cool and fun to work with.
02:30 AM LuminaxWk: hmmm... so my guess is that HP and Agilent's optical division has been acquired by Broadcom Limited
02:31 AM LuminaxWk: http://bit.ly/2sVMjJC
02:31 AM Snert: price went up I see.
02:32 AM Snert: because of $ I dropped down to the HDSP-2533.
03:08 AM rue_shop3: .. its not pid
03:08 AM rue_shop3: I had the idea is was a PID controller
07:02 AM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser
10:51 AM rue_bed2: neural plasticity
10:53 AM rue_bed2: void InitMotion(trapMotion_t *this, float start, float end, float accel, float topSpeed)
10:54 AM rue_bed2: getPos(trapMotion_t *this, float * offset, float t)
10:55 AM rue_bed2: there is an effect here
10:55 AM rue_bed2: when you scale time
10:55 AM rue_bed2: /-----\
10:55 AM rue_bed2: think rue
10:56 AM rue_bed2: less time makes the peak volocity (lower | higher )
10:56 AM rue_bed2: higher
10:56 AM rue_bed2: ?
10:57 AM rue_bed2: less time makes the acceleration (lower | higher)
10:58 AM rue_bed2: higher
10:59 AM rue_bed2: what are you trying to do
11:00 AM rue_bed2: I'm trying to say, that the point where you saturate your velocity can be changed with accel and max vel, but also by modifying time
11:01 AM rue_bed2: the profile code takes time, and gives back the posiiton we need to be at
11:02 AM rue_bed2: the hctl-1100 uses that same method, and updates the drive to the motor based on that as a servo command position
11:02 AM rue_bed2: your trying to use it for stepper steps
11:02 AM rue_bed2: do you remember this folley with the linear interpolator?
11:03 AM rue_bed2: the linear interpolator dosn't do trapazoidal profiles
11:03 AM z64555: why not?
11:03 AM rue_bed2: right, and your plugin for it means you need to know the time between the updates
11:04 AM rue_bed2: z64555, I use the temporal dimension to control velocity in my interpolator
11:04 AM rue_bed2: casue its not part of the interpolator itself
11:05 AM rue_bed2: but synchronizing multiple trapazoidal velocity profiles can be a bit different
11:05 AM rue_bed2: no rue, its not, just have to finish your accelerations at the same time
11:05 AM rue_bed2: thats how the interpolator was design to be used
11:06 AM rue_bed2: so we need to redo the trapazoidal gen to give back the time between the positions
11:06 AM rue_bed2: and you have to carefully choose the axis you build the profile on
11:06 AM rue_bed2: so that you dont overspeed the slave axies
11:07 AM rue_bed2: the interpolator uses the longest travel axis as the master
11:07 AM rue_bed2: brb I need to hit the bathroom
11:10 AM rue_house: so, the interpolator says where I need to be, and I need a profiler that says WHEN I need to be there
11:10 AM rue_house: yes
11:10 AM Tom_itx: not working today?
11:11 AM rue_house: its important to manage the velocities so that you dont overspeed the slowest axis, you CAN underspeed the fastest ones
11:11 AM rue_house: Tom_itx, vaccation for the week
11:11 AM Tom_itx: lucky dog
11:12 AM rue_house: so, how do I know which axis is master for the profiler?
11:12 AM Tom_itx: you should get alot done this week then
11:12 AM rue_house: *should*
11:12 AM Tom_itx: why is the longest travel master?
11:13 AM Tom_itx: because he as further to walk?
11:13 AM rue_house: Tom_itx, highest resolution for the slave axies
11:13 AM rue_house: I need to go get some breakfast
11:13 AM Tom_itx: sounds like you're re'creating lcnc to an extent
11:13 AM rue_house: no wait, you need to tell me the answer to the profiler!
11:14 AM rue_house: no, you need to figure it out, I'm just here to help
11:14 AM rue_house: well then I need to wake up more
11:14 AM rue_house: Tom_itx, its an age old problem
11:15 AM rue_house: see the thing is, by controling the motion profile with time, any profile can be done
11:15 AM rue_house: could do a sinusoidal profile if he wanted
11:15 AM rue_house: but we need a function that takes a position, and works out the delay to get there
11:16 AM rue_house: then those positions go into a servo loop
11:16 AM rue_house: did you get breakfast?
11:16 AM rue_house: no, no i"m going....
11:40 AM rue_house: what is it about showers and amazing ideas
11:40 AM rue_house: did you get breakfast yet?
11:40 AM rue_house: *erp*
11:47 AM rue_shop3: this is the life
11:48 AM rue_shop3: all the time I want to eat as much breakfast as I want
11:48 AM rue_shop3: even if I get caught by an imugr link in the middle and it takes 2 hours to get away from it
11:51 AM rue_shop3: I had the screw car going back and forth all night
11:51 AM rue_shop3: the good news is its still going
11:51 AM rue_shop3: the bad news is that the belt does have some slip to it, it krept to the right
11:52 AM rue_shop3: but I still need acceleration for it
11:52 AM rue_shop3: can I use the temporal profiler without the interpolator?
11:52 AM rue_shop3: yes, you just need to know your position increments
11:53 AM rue_shop3: then I can set up a timer to tell me when to be at the next posision
11:53 AM rue_shop3: I still cant work out how to use that to time steps tho
11:53 AM rue_shop3: you could use a step timer in a closed loop, but that seems silly
11:54 AM rue_shop3: maybe if time is just dialed up so fast that you only ever take 0 or 1 steps at a time
11:54 AM rue_shop3: no your backwards
11:54 AM rue_shop3: ah, your saying I'm always taking 1 step
11:54 AM rue_shop3: right you need to know the delay before taking the step
11:55 AM rue_shop3: so steppers are a specific use case
11:55 AM rue_shop3: prettymuch
11:55 AM rue_shop3: ok, so
11:55 AM rue_shop3: so?
11:55 AM rue_shop3: how does the profiler do it
11:56 AM rue_shop3: the profiler needs to know the distance your going, the acceleration and the max velocity
11:56 AM rue_shop3: ok
11:56 AM rue_shop3: your going to tell it where you want to go, its going to give you a time
11:56 AM rue_shop3: ok
11:56 AM rue_shop3: you diff that time from the time of the last step
11:56 AM rue_shop3: position
11:56 AM rue_shop3: right
11:56 AM rue_shop3: ok
11:57 AM rue_shop3: I wait that long, and then take my step
11:57 AM rue_shop3: what if I just have a master system clock that counts time?
11:57 AM rue_shop3: whatever, same difference
11:58 AM rue_shop3: so, I register the motion with the profiler
11:58 AM rue_shop3: take a step
11:58 AM rue_shop3: then propose the next step to get the time, wait till then, repeat
11:58 AM rue_shop3: yup
11:58 AM rue_shop3: got it
12:00 PM rue_shop3: using it with the interpolator is basically the same thing
12:01 PM rue_shop3: right now I'm just interpolating 1 axis
12:01 PM rue_shop3: so, I need to turn that function I wrote inside out
12:02 PM rue_shop3: and I need to go shopping
12:02 PM rue_shop3: finish building a pipe bender
02:25 PM rue_shop3: !!! I BROKE A CLAW, dangit
02:25 PM rue_shop3: nail, whatever...
02:25 PM rue_shop3: ok plywood
02:25 PM rue_shop3: or should I work on
02:25 PM rue_shop3: I need focus
02:26 PM rue_shop3: food
02:34 PM Tom_itx: claw?
02:34 PM Tom_itx: you have claws on your digits?
02:46 PM JT-Shop: lol
02:54 PM weyland|yutani: i think rue_shop3 needs a vacation
02:55 PM weyland|yutani: im still not entirely sure the massive wall of text he posted earlier was a repoast with another person or he talked to himself on irc
03:05 PM robopal: he talks to himself regulary
03:05 PM robopal: weyland|yutani, new here?
03:06 PM weyland|yutani: never saw hin write this much to himself
03:14 PM youngiif2: i think he's going through some things so probably trying to work them out
03:48 PM rue_shop3: just made a jig
03:48 PM rue_shop3: and about 100 solder gun tips
03:48 PM rue_shop3: :))))
03:49 PM rue_shop3: 1:00, perfect
03:49 PM rue_shop3: where is my tea?
03:53 PM rue_shop3: ok, 1:30ish
03:53 PM rue_shop3: need to think
03:54 PM rue_shop3: anyone wanna do some math?
03:54 PM rue_shop3: thinking problem, cmon
03:54 PM rue_shop3: eh?
03:54 PM rue_shop3: nay?
03:55 PM rue_shop3: pipe bender, you should work on the pipe bender
04:03 PM rue_shop3: never anyone here
04:04 PM rue_house: dude, thats insulting, I'm right _here_
04:04 PM z64555: :P
04:08 PM youngiif2: whats your math rue
04:20 PM rue_shop3: I have a chart
04:20 PM rue_shop3: X is time
04:20 PM rue_shop3: Y is velocity
04:21 PM rue_shop3: what I need to know, is, for two given POSITIONS (integrate velocity) what is the time difference
04:21 PM rue_shop3: https://paste.debian.net/975747/
04:21 PM rue_shop3: hmm
04:22 PM rue_shop3: there are 3 parts, cause its a trapazoidal velocity profile
04:22 PM rue_shop3: you know, its fine to just start with constant velocity
04:22 PM rue_shop3: the ramped velocity can be worked out later
04:22 PM rue_shop3: I dont even know if thats enough to work with
04:23 PM rue_shop3: t1 and t2 are the times of the corners on the trapazoidal profile
04:23 PM rue_shop3: x1 and x2 are the positions of the two points
04:24 PM rue_shop3: ^
04:24 PM rue_shop3: |
04:24 PM rue_shop3: t
04:24 PM rue_shop3: + -> X
04:24 PM rue_shop3: no
04:24 PM rue_shop3: no no
04:24 PM rue_shop3: V
04:24 PM rue_shop3: ^
04:24 PM rue_shop3: |
04:24 PM rue_shop3: + -> t
04:24 PM rue_shop3: /--\
04:25 PM rue_shop3: ....
04:25 PM rue_shop3: V
04:25 PM rue_shop3: ^
04:25 PM rue_shop3: |/------\
04:25 PM rue_shop3: + -> t
04:27 PM rue_shop3: void getTime(trapMotion_t * this, float * time, float x) { // position is the input, time is the output
04:27 PM rue_shop3: it should be possable to give a person the X, and get back the t (from start) of that position
04:27 PM rue_shop3: instead of two positions
04:36 PM rue_shop3: ok I need to think of things that need doing while the rest of the world exists
04:36 PM rue_shop3: its 2:00
04:37 PM rue_shop3: right, bottle recycler is closed on monday
05:29 PM zhanx: rue_shop3: oh yea i got distracted again :\
05:43 PM rue_shop3: I did it
05:43 PM rue_shop3: I concentrated
05:43 PM rue_shop3: I finished off the medical machine
05:43 PM rue_shop3: THAT makes some deck space
05:43 PM rue_shop3: (about 6 square feet), maybe 9
05:45 PM rue_shop3: that took like 2 years
05:45 PM rue_shop3: tho, by the time is was too late I realized I probably could have made a silicone/was 3d printer out of it
05:45 PM rue_shop3: if I get another one, I'll know what to do
05:46 PM rue_shop3: I dont expect $80k medical machines to fall into my lap often tho
05:47 PM zhanx: lol
05:59 PM * rue_shop3 drolls over the pile of rainbow ribbon cable from it
05:59 PM rue_shop3: drolls even
05:59 PM rue_shop3: :(
05:59 PM rue_shop3: f a i l
05:59 PM rue_shop3: drooooooools
06:23 PM rue_shop3: ok I mowed some yard, is my mind clear yet?
06:23 PM rue_shop3: 4:00
06:27 PM rue_house: yea, where is the tea
06:29 PM rue_house: ah there's a todo item, clear the deck couch so I can sleep on it for a night
06:30 PM rue_house: I need to finish the pipe bender too
06:31 PM rue_house: I have a big-ass steel pipe in the driveway
06:31 PM rue_house: 2 problems
06:31 PM rue_house: a) I need to move it
06:31 PM rue_house: b) I need somewhere to put it
06:32 PM rue_house: 1/4" thick, 16" steel pipe, 8' long
06:32 PM rue_house: full of soil
06:33 PM rue_house: I think the chain hoist can lift it
06:33 PM rue_house: pour the soil out
06:35 PM rue_house: I wonder if I can grab it
06:35 PM rue_house: I might need to weld a hook to it
06:37 PM -!- #robotics mode set to +o by ChanServ
06:38 PM rue_house changed topic of #robotics to: If you ask a question, you must wait for the answer. | http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/index.php | L is for LinearInterpolationAlgorythm, which has a good beat.
06:38 PM -!- #robotics mode set to -o by rue_house
06:39 PM rue_house: even if I pick it up and pour the dirt out, its too heavy to move
06:39 PM rue_house: so drag it
06:39 PM rue_house: oh, right
06:40 PM rue_house: your welcome
06:40 PM rue_house: thanks, I think
06:40 PM rue_house: ?
06:40 PM rue_house: dont know if I have anything with enough traction to drag that
06:40 PM rue_house: maybe if one end is sitting on a dolley?
06:40 PM rue_house: dunno
06:40 PM rue_house: you wont till you try it
06:41 PM rue_house: ok, how am I gonna attach a chain to it?
06:41 PM rue_house: you drilled a hole in it last time, to drag it out of the bush
06:41 PM rue_house: ... I did?
06:41 PM rue_house: yea, the C clamps kept breaking
06:41 PM rue_house: ok
06:41 PM rue_house: your still sitting
06:42 PM rue_house: yea, my ass is stuck
06:42 PM rue_house: ok
06:44 PM zhanx: rue that is easy to move
06:44 PM rue_shop3: not when its full of soil
06:45 PM zhanx: use water to displace it
06:45 PM rue_shop3: just gonna get the gantry to lift and empty it
06:45 PM rue_shop3: its an 16-18" pipe
06:45 PM rue_shop3: the soil is packed in
06:45 PM rue_shop3: think if it fell from a plane and landed end-down in the dirt
06:45 PM rue_shop3: then tipped over, keeping the dirt in
06:45 PM rue_shop3: NO idea what the story is with this thing, but I want it
06:46 PM zhanx: so dig it out then
06:46 PM zhanx: or weld a eye on it and lift it like that
06:47 PM rue_shop3: I was breaking chains trying to pull it out of the bush with my S10, that was having issues trying to pull it
06:48 PM rue_shop3: I drilled a hole in it back when, turns out I did too
06:48 PM rue_shop3: I wasn't fibbing
06:48 PM rue_shop3: from what I can tell I can bolt a chain to it
06:48 PM rue_shop3: I can use the chain hoist and gantry to lift it
06:48 PM rue_shop3: then what, I'm not sure
06:48 PM zhanx: well then you need my explorer to pull it out
06:48 PM rue_shop3: :)
06:49 PM rue_shop3: someone with a good winch
06:49 PM zhanx: i got a granny gear in it
07:19 PM rue_shop3: I feel stupid, its up, but not pouring out!
07:19 PM * rue_shop3 grabs the sledge and goes back to it
07:20 PM rue_shop3: ok, thats as intense as one of those damn large guns
07:21 PM * rue_shop3 grabs earmuffs and goes back
07:34 PM zhanx: loud ringing eh?
07:36 PM rue_shop3: its thicker than 1/4
07:36 PM rue_shop3: there wasn't THAT much dirt in it, maybe 5-8 gal
07:36 PM rue_shop3: but I can lift one end now, *kinda*
07:37 PM rue_shop3: it was doing that insulting thing, where you lift up as hard as you can and it dosn't budge a bit
07:39 PM zhanx: yes the ha ha you thought you were stronger thing, I hate that
07:39 PM zhanx: rue make a smoker out of it and eat some meat
07:41 PM rue_house: I mean, atleast when you lift on the bumper of a truck the suspension gives you some
07:47 PM zhanx: it teases you it all rue
07:47 PM zhanx: also lift with your knees not your back old me
07:47 PM zhanx: man
07:48 PM * rue_house grumbles about 12' mecha
07:48 PM zhanx: snapon guy stopped at work today to give out freebies instead of taking my money
07:48 PM rue_house: ok, 40 AG13 batteries, see how long that lasts
07:48 PM rue_house: no idea what needed them
07:50 PM Luminax-Work is now known as LuminaxWk
09:47 PM rue_shop3: tractor cant pull it
09:53 PM zhanx: really
09:53 PM zhanx: got a pto on it?
10:01 PM rue_shop3: lawn tractor
10:01 PM rue_shop3: not enough traction
10:01 PM rue_shop3: all that work, and all I really did was to get the dirt out of it
11:26 PM rue_shop3: so I'm thinking that I should make a metal stand for the pipe bender itself
11:26 PM rue_shop3: and have flanges that the surrounding table interfaces with
11:29 PM rue_shop3: new resolution, DO ANYTHING
11:50 PM mrdata: points if your pipe bender drinks alcohol