#robotics Logs
Jun 30 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:00 AM rue_shop3: got both?
12:04 AM rue_shop3: if so, open up the main.dxf and take a quick look
12:04 AM rue_shop3: the high points are that its a closed profile
12:04 AM rue_shop3: and its on layer 0
12:04 AM rue_shop3: tell me when you have had a chance to take a look
12:04 AM rue_shop3: the noise of the two cnc machines is getting to me, I'm gonna go to me room
12:04 AM rue_house: k
12:04 AM rue_house: much quieter
12:04 AM theBear: don't be silly, recad be built and installed in a few minutes, then scad gets to build :)
12:04 AM rue_house: compiling it!?
12:04 AM rue_house: huh
12:04 AM theBear: woop there it is, and i hiope yer don't expect me to use any silly emacs support, cos i don't emacs, no more than i vi :)
12:04 AM rue_house: no your good
12:04 AM rue_house: check out the dxf
12:04 AM rue_house: see what I did
12:04 AM rue_house: say when ready for more
12:05 AM theBear: and yeah, it's just how my distro works... on the upside i haven't had a production server of a client or my own get stuck with a non-upgradable lib/dep dead-end meaning unexpected and instant downtime AND needing a more or less fresh install of the newer version (thanks very much rpm/pre-fedora redhat ! jaded for life ...) of the whole effing os when i didn't have the time, and wasn't even in the right suburb at the time
12:06 AM rue_house: :) thats when you start jabbing in files copied from other freshly installed systems and outright lieing about what distribution is installed :)
12:07 AM rue_house: this machine was installed 2001, and has never had a reinstall since
12:07 AM theBear: the important thing is, i'm happier than i was before, and i really do like the way my avr toolchain is as native and integrated as my x86/64, or my sparc32 or bcm???? etc ones are, very smooth in my mind
12:07 AM rue_house: ___16 years___
12:07 AM theBear: this one was kinda 2004, tho technically the hw has updated a lot since then
12:07 AM rue_house: well, hey, whatever floats your boat :)
12:07 AM rue_house: I'v done lots of hw upgrades
12:08 AM rue_house: only the case is the same...
12:08 AM theBear: and i know that i don't gotta update much, this ain't a production web/db/dns/mail server for a client or even me, but it's all just so effortless, albeit a little slower.... tho compared to recent windows nonsense and updates and general size of everything, i pretty sure that everything i do is quicker, even accounting for dloading full source AND building it <grin>
12:09 AM rue_house: keeps things slimmer, likley faster
12:09 AM theBear: my server is last-century hw btw <grin> p3 coppermine 1ghz topped out a 512mb ram, doing all that stuff i jsut mentioned and a bunch more, and my security cams and prboly some other craqp i forgot
12:09 AM rue_house: OOOooo coppermine... those were fast.... iirc
12:09 AM theBear: it's efing criminal how outta hand ms cpu/mem/disk/download(updates)/3rd-party-bin-apps have gotten the last few years, really mindblowingly fucked up
12:10 AM rue_house: yup
12:10 AM theBear: i can't believe even normal plebs still using it
12:10 AM rue_house: people are just packing code on code
12:10 AM rue_house: I'd like to make an execution path optimizer
12:10 AM rue_house: takes a binary and stripps out the stuff that never happens
12:12 AM theBear: mmm, what gets me is the INSANE amount of cpu and ram and disk activity ms can make simple copy in place binary zero-thinking patches and updates use to install, not to mention the amount of thinking and general new-machine-crippling waiting that they seem able to involve in just getting that list from their net/web-servers and comparing to the local machine to even decide which ones to download and install
12:12 AM theBear: really hurts my head everytime i think about any of it ! IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM POSSIBLE TO WASTE THAT MUCH COMPUTING TO DO SO VERY VERY VEEEEEERY LITTLE !!!!
12:13 AM rue_house: yea
12:14 AM rue_house: you just look at what a 16Mhz avr can do, and you start to really appreciate it all
12:14 AM rue_house: were talking trig calculations in a hair of a second
12:14 AM rue_house: 8 bit, 16Mhz
12:15 AM rue_house: I'm still working out what to use the 32 bit, 72Mhz stm32 baords for thats worthy
12:15 AM theBear: mmm, and that tiny chip doing more than what a whole pc did even at the start of the 90s, well, apart from the 10kgs shoebox sized 10 or 20mb hd that is, course the avr can easily do that with a teeny weeny sdcard <grin>
12:25 AM rue_house: wow, I need to totally turn over my room and clean it all up
12:25 AM theBear: ooh,pretty icons magically in my stuff-menus and all
12:25 AM rue_house: :)
12:25 AM theBear: woah, that's an uninspiring way of expressing a 3d axis fer first impressions
12:25 AM theBear: at least it got dots on half the quadrants or so
12:25 AM rue_house: okok, hold on
12:25 AM theBear: i dunno, 3d math was never my strong suit outside puters
12:25 AM rue_house: first, open librecad
12:25 AM rue_house: and check out the dxf
12:25 AM theBear: don't panic, i gotta get outta the house and do a couple important things before the working week is over
12:25 AM rue_house: I just started the rice burner, not too much time left tonight
12:26 AM rue_house: I just want to quick and zip thru like 3 things
12:26 AM rue_house: superfast, lots of details can come later
12:27 AM rue_house: beaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar....
12:29 AM theBear: maaaaaaan, you heard how i ain't been able to see my bed, even the cover, for some years now just earlier, that i seem to have lost entire open laptops on the thing, etc etc... all but my crappy 25w noname ratshack 100% no-controlled-anything shitty grub-screw chopped-off-flathead-screwdriver-tip style iron been broked for over a year now, don't encourage me to indulge my fondness of sidetrackerey <grin>
12:29 AM rue_house: ... cmon, like 2 mins?
12:30 AM theBear: awww maaaaaaaaaaan
12:30 AM theBear: c'
12:30 AM rue_house: got that dxf open?
12:30 AM rue_house: 120 seconds, cmon
12:30 AM theBear: c'mon, i got it all good and installed, i got the demo archive open in front of me, i even open the program ready fer when i get back in a few hours :)
12:30 AM rue_house: non no screw it
12:31 AM rue_house: just open the dxf in that archive I sent ya
12:31 AM rue_house: in librecad
12:31 AM rue_house: doing 3d objects from 2d in openscad is WAY faster than using their crap CSG system
12:32 AM rue_house: (CSG is a good thing, but they have made a mockery of how they process it)
12:32 AM rue_house: cmon, cmon, open the dxf
12:32 AM theBear: oooh i get it ! Libre` CAD, not lib-recad <grin> that makes some more sense
12:32 AM rue_house: 8-| did you somehow install the wrong thing!?
12:33 AM theBear: wtf is that pointy thing ? and why did it land half off the screen first open ? that's as shitty as old versions of eagle, and for all i know recent ones too <grin>
12:33 AM rue_house: yea yea open the dxf
12:33 AM theBear: no silly, i just didn't understand the name in my head
12:33 AM theBear: i got it, it's a pointy thing
12:33 AM rue_house: ah
12:33 AM rue_house: yea
12:33 AM rue_house: see on the right, layer is 0
12:33 AM rue_house: yes?
12:34 AM z64555: yay, I'm unbanned
12:34 AM rue_house: and its a closed shape, you can have things in the middle, the extruder works like a fill bucket in a paint program
12:34 AM rue_house: theBear, ?
12:35 AM theBear: woah, i gonna have to change some keys, it wiggles when it should be zooming :) but that comes later
12:35 AM theBear: so err, where do i find this fill bucket ?
12:36 AM rue_house: no
12:36 AM rue_house: you see the layer name and the fact its a closed shape, right?
12:36 AM theBear: heh, i saw explode, damn it was hard not to just click on that fer fun
12:37 AM rue_house: ok, open the main.scad file in openscad next
12:37 AM theBear: umm, i see it's closed with my eyes, and i see the layer list
12:37 AM theBear: oh yeah, i'm still in 2dland
12:37 AM rue_house: yea, librecad is just 2d
12:37 AM rue_house: we use openscad to 3d it
12:39 AM rue_house: say when you have the main.scad open in openscad
12:39 AM theBear: woah broooo! and suddenly all that stuff about which dimension i'm mousing in or wiggling or moving along comes at me
12:39 AM theBear: ooh, i can understand the code on the left tho
12:39 AM rue_house: ok, so
12:39 AM theBear: that looks much easier than grappling around with this caveman-esque analogue ball-based interfacery
12:39 AM rue_house: sets a variable called profile that is the file were getting our 2d shapes from
12:40 AM rue_house: then it does a linear extrusion of that 120mm on the Z axis
12:40 AM rue_house: k?
12:40 AM rue_house: push F5 and it'll generate the 3d shape
12:40 AM rue_house: say when you have that done
12:41 AM rue_house: the linear extrude does layer "0"
12:41 AM theBear: hmmm.... can i set it to auto-render or preview, or i gotta f5 evey time
12:41 AM rue_house: I just use F5
12:41 AM rue_house: dont want it trying to compile while I'm half way thru a rewrite
12:41 AM theBear: oooh, loooks a lot nicer when i make the left bit more than 6 or 8 characters wide <grin>
12:41 AM rue_house: but you got it yes?
12:41 AM rue_house: ok
12:41 AM rue_house: so, here
12:42 AM rue_house: change linear_extrude to rotary_extrude and hit F5 again
12:42 AM theBear: yeah, i do got it... i mean, you wasted a whole 4.7minutes rather than the <=2.000 you sold me on <cheeky grin> but i totally get it :)
12:42 AM rue_house: it should make a tower
12:43 AM theBear: yeah, i gets it... where i find my list of erm, functions or err, commands or whatever yer call things like XYZ_extrude (){} ?
12:43 AM rue_house: now, what I mostly do is linear extrude, and I use different 2d layers, and stack them
12:43 AM rue_house: I can show you more later
12:44 AM rue_house: http://www.openscad.org/cheatsheet/
12:44 AM rue_house: did the rotary extrude work?
12:44 AM rue_house: damn
12:44 AM rue_house: its called rotate_extrude
12:44 AM rue_house: its good for making knobs and things
12:45 AM rue_house: --end of todays lesson--
12:46 AM rue_house: https://www.thingiverse.com/rue_mohr/designs
12:46 AM theBear: close enuf :) and with the cheatsheet, i'm off and runnin, thanx buddy !
12:46 AM rue_house: I use that technique for almost everything,
12:47 AM theBear: buggin' people till they give in and do what you want, when you want it ?
12:47 AM theBear: hehe
12:47 AM rue_house: I mix it with a bit of CSG, cause sometimes its an easier way to make a ball, or punch a hole in someting
12:48 AM theBear: erm if you say so.... i assume csg is some kinda futuristic synthetic dry molybdenum based lubricant ?
12:48 AM rue_house: do the rotate_extrude, it does it around the Y axis instead of the Z like linear does
12:49 AM rue_house: Constructive Solid Geometry, think povray
12:50 AM rue_house: ugh, the rice maker popped, that means its burnt
12:50 AM rue_house: and the stew boiled, that means its burnt
12:50 AM rue_house: *sigh* normal supper....
12:51 AM rue_house: sometimes I'd really appreciate a carbon-free supper
12:51 AM theBear: lol, last time i povray'd windows 3.0 hadn't been invented, autocad full top of the line version fit on a single floppy, and morphing two faces together based on only a handful of defined points was cutting edge stuff ;-) when dad was sent on overseas trips for work i'd get a night or so window either end of the trip to use the companies only/best lappy, 386dx40 or so, man, it could render a basic povray file, you know, maybe a reflectey plane and
12:51 AM theBear: a couple spheres or something, in under 8 hours !
12:52 AM theBear: i did like doing it tho :)
12:52 AM theBear: man i dreamed of having the kinda power to render things like chessboards floating in glassy looking space, or maybe simple buildings :)
12:52 AM rue_house: yea, there was nothing like setting it to 600x800x256 and hoping it all came out ok in the morning
12:54 AM rue_house: theBear, so, thats a pretty crash course on how I do 3d modeling
12:54 AM rue_house: https://www.thingiverse.com/rue_mohr/designs/page:1 <-- again, lots of stuff I'v done
12:54 AM rue_house: I should post more tho
12:54 AM theBear: good thing theBear is a pretty crash kinda a tech then, innit?
12:54 AM rue_house: theBear, your challange is to make a to-scale 3.5" floppy blank
12:55 AM rue_house: I think the units in librecad are interpreted by openscad as mm in any case
12:55 AM rue_house: so, do everything by mm
12:55 AM rue_house: *to make it printable*
12:56 AM theBear: you seen the pics of that memcard-floppy adapter i came across last year, with the 2 TINY skinny coin cells to power it, and from memory no moving parts at all (i think there was just a blank center metal circle bit so the mech of the drive wouldn't freak out, 3.5" standard floppy)
12:56 AM rue_house: when the F5 looks good, do an F6, this makes an stl-exportable memory model
12:56 AM theBear: was just thinking bout picking up the RIGHT tiny coins thisafternoon to finally test it
12:56 AM rue_house: from there you can export it as a STL
12:56 AM rue_house: which anyone cad 3d print
12:57 AM theBear: when ya think about it, conceptually it should be alot easier to implement than making a little 8bit micro pretend to be a floppy drive interface, all that archaic "tell the mechanics of the thing what to do, and this will lead to a working floppy drive" kinda interface that they "still" use
12:59 AM rue_house: or, say you need to make a key for an old bedroom door lock, thats not had a key for as long as people can remmeber
01:00 AM rue_house: *little peices of plastic* thats what 3d printers are all about
01:00 AM rue_house: * some peices not that little *
01:02 AM rue_house: there was a job site they wouldn't give me a copy of the key I kept needing to do the things they wanted me to
01:02 AM rue_house: they had given me a lower level key
01:02 AM rue_house: one day I took a pic of the higher level key
01:02 AM rue_house: before I got around to modeling the key I kept needing they found me one
01:02 AM rue_house: -- but I was close --
01:03 AM rue_house: harassing the manger to get me a key 6 times a day worked
01:03 AM rue_house: damnit
01:03 AM theBear: pfft, i can make keys with just a hammer and a hard metal something and an old bike spoke, even traditional lock picks if need be, but olden-days keys ain't worth picking, most of em yer get something that remotely fits in the hole and it's hard not to hit the wobbly old tumbley whatsits :)
01:04 AM rue_house: "yea, I need to go in that door now"
01:04 AM theBear: anyway, i just lined up my next couple stops in the city, i'm out, 3d-cad artist capable as i now am and all :)
01:04 AM theBear: l8r tater, don't do anything i would do <wink>
01:05 AM rue_house: break a leg
01:05 AM rue_house: NOT LITERALLY!
01:05 AM rue_house: OK, yay, I introduced bear to 3d design
01:06 AM rue_house: thats *something* for today anyhow
01:08 AM rue_house: Tom_itx, 120G?
02:22 AM mrdata: http://amechanicalmind.deviantart.com/art/Watch-Parts-Creature-Jules-553015732
05:06 AM deshipu: that would never work
05:09 AM deshipu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA
09:08 AM rue_house: heh watch pins, thats great
09:09 AM rue_house: lots of watch and clock parts
11:59 AM veverak: another article about why OOP is bullshit
11:59 AM veverak: another bullshit article that just says "author doesn't know how to code"
12:01 PM * veverak starts to get trigger automatically on this topic
12:01 PM veverak: meantime
12:01 PM veverak: XBOX joysticks arrived
12:02 PM veverak: they are smaller than I expected
12:27 PM armyofevilrobots: @veverak OOP _is_ bullshit, but usually because people misuse OOP.
12:28 PM armyofevilrobots: OOP itself is fine, but people try to square-peg the round holes.
12:28 PM veverak: armyofevilrobots: well said
12:28 PM armyofevilrobots: Don’t even get me started on DI containers and transitive dependency resolution :#
12:28 PM armyofevilrobots: Too much magic these days. YAGNI.
12:29 PM veverak: yeah
12:29 PM veverak: OOP is awesome as you realize why you use it
12:29 PM veverak: "to make code cleaner and easier to understand"
12:29 PM veverak: "it's a tool, not religion"
12:30 PM veverak: somehow this is problem for a lot of people
12:30 PM veverak: but I don't blame them, one needs experience to understand it
12:30 PM veverak: but hey, than there you have those haters of it...
03:07 PM Sol is now known as Guest21286
04:13 PM anniepoo: yes, oop is fine. It's just that it's become the hammer that makes everything a nail
04:17 PM deshipu: it's just the java/c++ is all that is taught these days
04:17 PM deshipu: and java's oop style is particularly nasty
04:18 PM deshipu: the kingdom of nouns
04:53 PM deshipu: veverak: https://hackaday.io/project/21904-hexapod-modelling-path-planning-and-control
05:02 PM veverak: deshipu: seen that
05:02 PM veverak: A* for path planning, nah, boring :)
07:07 PM theBear: oop is stupid, regardless of why you think there's a reason to ever use it, and i know, i come from a time before it existed
07:07 PM theBear: :)
07:08 PM theBear: plus ya know, i AM theBear, and there's no valid argument against that <grin>
07:20 PM veverak: " flamewar initialization detected" :)
07:28 PM * mumptai smells troll
07:29 PM anniepoo: 8cD ground down a few bits inside the shell, about to go blow it out, clean it up, and attach the mesh for touch sensors
07:40 PM rue_house: my stethoscope arrived today, I can spend tonight listening to myself
08:13 PM anniepoo: 8cD gave it a coat of plastidip inside so I don't have to deal with oochie fiberglass
08:14 PM anniepoo: I didn't have any shielded cable, so ordered some. Won't put int the touch sensor mesh until it arrives
08:15 PM anniepoo: meanwhile, am going to make a clay model for the dancing robot body
08:17 PM veverak: it compiles!
08:17 PM veverak: and basic test works
08:17 PM veverak: goood
08:17 PM rue_house: theBear, ideas for 3d things?
08:26 PM rue_house: can onyone find a part on aliexpress that would be fun to play with and costs about $4usd?
08:32 PM veverak: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10PC-LOT-Original-3D-repair-parts-thumbsticks-original-replacement-Parts-Thumbsticks-for-Xbox-360-Controller/32480709735.html
08:32 PM veverak: rue_house: just got these ^^
08:32 PM veverak: I think it will be fun to make controller with these
08:52 PM rue_house: already got some
08:53 PM veverak: hmm
08:53 PM veverak: rue_house: got any tips for loosing them?
08:53 PM veverak: feels somehow stiff
08:54 PM rue_house: ? the ones I got are fine
08:54 PM veverak: seems stiff for me to move with one finger freely
08:54 PM veverak: but hey
08:54 PM veverak: I don't even have cap on them, can change things quite a lot
08:56 PM Sol is now known as Guest51121
08:56 PM Guest51121 is now known as Solgriffin
09:17 PM z64555: yeah, put the cap on them. you'll get much more torque (or at least you should)
09:21 PM rue_house: asaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh
09:21 PM rue_house: I have a 3d printer!
09:21 PM rue_house: I can make holders for pens for my plotter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:25 PM z64555: among other things
09:51 PM theBear: rue_house, howbout those molded sata connectors i just salvaged to make this little 90deg adaapter/"extender" for this lappy with a stupid wrong-angle sata plug and a missing caddy/hd due to being salvaged by a err, not theBear, which of course should never be allowed to happen to anything technical
09:52 PM theBear: tho like i said to the poor new dude at the local 'tronics store yesterday, if i got it off ebay or the deepest darkest amazon jungles then it wouldn't be here today :P
09:52 PM * joga tries but fails
09:54 PM theBear: failure is acceptable, barely, but regardless of success, losing one-of-a-kind stupid plugs or cables or adaptey somethings while you doing that, is err, as the kids probly wouldn't say; "not cool, dude.... far from aiiiiight, that's what the little mess you made for yerself there is, old bean !"
10:26 PM ace4016: what a wonderful channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAawhg6JtyY
10:49 PM anniepoo: okey dokey, see you all from home