#robotics Logs
Jun 15 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:06 AM rue_house: armyofevilrobots, ah there you are :)
12:08 AM rue_house: now where is moon
12:08 AM rue_house: armyofevilrobots, so its a 2 cyl, parallel, 1.5Hp 100psi
12:08 AM rue_house: no hesitation after putting on the 1.5Hp motor
12:09 AM rue_house: The_Jester, you have led strip for those?
12:17 AM The_Jester: yeah, I have that reel of bluish stuff you offered up
12:17 AM rue_house: the translucent?!
12:17 AM rue_house: oh the leds
12:17 AM rue_house: right
12:18 AM The_Jester: do you want to post a link of your pcb?
12:18 AM rue_house: not sure what I called it just now
12:18 AM rue_house: I best dig it up tommorow
12:18 AM The_Jester: kk
12:19 AM The_Jester: http://reprap.org/wiki/Cyclone_PCB_Factory
12:20 AM The_Jester: ^^^^for all who are present
12:20 AM rue_house: only like 3 others have a printer...
12:21 AM The_Jester: strange
12:21 AM The_Jester: its like computing in the 80s, only 3ppl you know aqctually own printers..lol
12:24 AM rue_house: armyofevilrobots, spot welding?
12:25 AM The_Jester: still find it ironic you know that guy and he's a creeker
12:27 AM The_Jester: saw joes name in the crits of some movie the otherday
12:27 AM The_Jester: star trek i think
12:27 AM The_Jester: production deisgner
12:30 AM rue_house: :)
12:31 AM rue_house: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RepRap-3D-Printer-THSL-300-8D-Lead-Screw-Dia-8MM-Thread-8mm-Length-300mm-with-Copper/1845020845.html
12:31 AM rue_house: I'm not trying to lead you astray...
12:33 AM The_Jester: thats an alright price isnt it
12:34 AM Anniepoo_: 8cD
12:34 AM The_Jester: gonna buy me some?
12:38 AM Anniepoo_: life is good
12:38 AM Anniepoo_: thinking about the snail's skin
12:39 AM Anniepoo_: can anybody explain how the capacitive touch sensor thingums work?
12:40 AM rue_house: I have it on my maybe lsit
12:41 AM rue_house: they use the capacitance against yourself to sense proximity
12:42 AM Anniepoo_: so do they excite with rf, or?
12:43 AM The_Jester: the pad has a certain capaciance and rings a certain way, when you touch it the capacitance changes and it rings differantly
12:43 AM The_Jester: i think thats kinda right
12:43 AM Anniepoo_: ah, thanks
12:46 AM The_Jester: cold end fan is too loud
12:48 AM rue_house: hehe
12:48 AM rue_house: water cooled....
12:48 AM Anniepoo_: stupid question - has anybody checked to see if lurex is conductive?
12:50 AM * Anniepoo_ is here, in a silver dress, standing between the robot and the wifi
12:50 AM Anniepoo_: Why is the robot crashing into the aquarium?
12:51 AM The_Jester: 4chan
12:53 AM rue_bed: zack wanted to play tetris against me again
12:53 AM rue_bed: anniepoo, have you ever used an avr with an led as a light sensor?
12:53 AM * Anniepoo_ is eating freezer quiches
12:54 AM Anniepoo_: no
12:54 AM rue_bed: you reverse charge the led, and then monitor the voltage, if light is falling on it, it'll discharge faster
12:54 AM Anniepoo_: ah, neat
12:54 AM rue_bed: an led can take as much as .25 sec to discharge
12:55 AM Anniepoo_: One of the first LEDs I ever saw was a 1n914
12:55 AM rue_bed: IR?
12:55 AM Anniepoo_: I put it in backwards and before it fried it glowed with an interesting greenish glow
12:56 AM rue_bed: I'v heard of it
12:56 AM Anniepoo_: def not incandescent
12:56 AM rue_bed: eproms plugged in backwards
01:00 AM Anniepoo_: So, I'm thinking about Pomatia's skin
01:01 AM rue_bed: silicone is too tearable
01:01 AM rue_bed: needs fiber
01:01 AM Anniepoo_: I was going to sew pieces of green Antron fleece
01:01 AM Anniepoo_: like a puppet
01:02 AM Anniepoo_: wondering what proprioception she needs
01:04 AM Anniepoo_: capacitive touch, and maybe force feedback
01:04 AM Anniepoo_: rue, in your servo wanderings, have you found a way to get a servo's actual (as opposed to commanded) position?
01:06 AM rue_bed: tap the pot
01:06 AM rue_bed: its a voltage divider on a 2.5V ref
01:06 AM Anniepoo_: ah
01:06 AM Anniepoo_: ok
01:07 AM Anniepoo_: I can mux those and convert
01:32 AM The_Jester: okay im out
01:32 AM The_Jester: goodnight folks
01:38 AM Anniepoo_: ok, next snail project - make a bunch of force and touch sensors
06:01 AM Jak_o_Shadows: anniepoo, lemme know, I'll contrib I think
07:10 AM pokmo: hi
07:10 AM pokmo: i'm trying to measure the current a 3V servo draws. is it a good idea to use this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141666267258
08:11 AM rue_bed: is it an sg90
08:29 AM SpeedEvil: 20A full-scale is probably too large
08:30 AM SpeedEvil: in that the output at 1A is 100mV
08:30 AM SpeedEvil: meaning you'll get lots of noise
08:49 AM rue_bed: SG90 pulls 0.4A
08:50 AM rue_bed: pokmo, you here anymore?
08:50 AM pokmo: rue_house, hi
08:50 AM rue_bed: SG90?
08:50 AM rue_bed: I suggest a resistor and an oscilloscope
08:50 AM pokmo: SpeedEvil, yeah. i think each count represents some 20mA
08:51 AM pokmo: rue_house, no, not SG90. it's this: https://www.seeedstudio.com/EMAX-9g-ES08A-High-Sensitive-Mini-Servo-p-760.html
08:51 AM pokmo: my rough measurements show around 100mA
08:52 AM pokmo: rue_house, yeah, i think i'll just use a 1ohm
08:55 AM pokmo: rue_bed, ^
09:12 AM pokmo: rue_bed, did you say SG90 pulls 0.4A? is that under load?
09:12 AM rue_house: you know its pulsed?
09:13 AM rue_house: you probably dont
09:13 AM pokmo: rue_house, yeah
09:14 AM rue_house: if you take it to 100%, thats the pulse current
09:15 AM rue_house: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/images/servocurrent.jpg
09:15 AM rue_house: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
09:16 AM rue_house: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo2/p1080887.jpg lower trace is control pulse, upper trace is a current detect (the motor is on), under 60% or so load
09:17 AM pokmo: rue_house, hmm let me digest that
09:21 AM pokmo: rue_house, so does that mean the amount of current a servo draws does not depend on the load?
09:21 AM rue_house: depends if your talking about the average or not
09:22 AM rue_house: if each servo pulls 0.5A, you can have 8 servos going and only be supplying 0.5A to the lot of them
09:22 AM pokmo: this page seems to suggest 220mA when no load and 650mA when horn locked? https://www.addicore.com/Addicore-SG90-Mini-Servo-p/113.htm
09:22 AM rue_house: they can also be pulling 4A
09:23 AM * rue_house sneaks up behind CrazyEddy and says "CLAMPS!"
09:23 AM rue_house: it might
09:24 AM pokmo: so the amount of current does vary with load?
09:24 AM rue_house: well think on this
09:25 AM rue_house: if the motor draws 1A for 10ms and then 0A for 10ms is is pulling 1A or 0.5A?
09:25 AM rue_house: the peak is 1A, the average is 0.5A
09:25 AM pokmo: because when there's a load, the servo will need to correct then horn's position?
09:25 AM pokmo: thus higher current draw
09:25 AM pokmo: s/then/the
09:26 AM z64555: <.<
09:26 AM rue_house: there is a lot of drop in the driver, its almost a constant current supply to the motor
09:26 AM rue_house: I should measure how much...
09:26 AM z64555: Higher load means higher current draw. But if the horn is in position and there is no forces on it, then the motor doesn't draw current
09:27 AM rue_house: usually, this is a pulse world tho
09:27 AM pokmo: z64555, because a higher load means more correction?
09:27 AM z64555: no, higher load means it needs more force to move it to the commanded position
09:27 AM z64555: more force -> more current
09:27 AM rue_house: I been all over it with a scope
09:28 AM rue_house: iirc, the pulse current goes up with load, proportionally to the pulse time
09:28 AM rue_house: see how the current slumps off?
09:28 AM pokmo: yeah
09:29 AM rue_house: it does that right across the load range
09:29 AM rue_house: I was playing with all sorts of things to try to grab the right values to monitor the current
09:29 AM rue_house: there is no point
09:30 AM rue_house: well, if your trying to measure load anyhow
09:30 AM rue_house: your designing the power supply for a bunch of servos I presume?
09:30 AM pokmo: z64555, but it needs more force because the horn is out of place, right? it "fights" to put itself into position
09:31 AM pokmo: >
09:31 AM pokmo: ?
09:31 AM rue_house: it needs a bigger correction with a larger postiion error
09:31 AM pokmo: yeah
09:31 AM rue_house: so it sends a longer pulse
09:32 AM z64555: listen to rue, he's a servo guru
09:32 AM pokmo: i know :D
09:32 AM rue_house: I can do a sweep of an SG90 later if you want
09:32 AM pokmo: i just wonder if i can "reasonably" power a small servo with a LIR2477
09:32 AM rue_house: we can compare it against the values they say
09:33 AM pokmo: rue_house, that'd be great :)
09:33 AM rue_house: not under load
09:33 AM pokmo: although mine isn't a SG90, it should have fairly similar characteristics
09:33 AM pokmo: electrical characteristics
09:33 AM rue_house: button cells have a peak current, thats why you can jam an led across them and not blow it up
09:34 AM pokmo: rue_house, max discharge is around 300mA http://www.powerstream.com/p/Lir2477.pdf
09:35 AM pokmo: but i think it won't be a good idea drawing so much from it
09:35 AM rue_house: oh its li-ion,....
09:36 AM pokmo: the capacity is just 150mAh at 75mA
09:36 AM rue_house: 300mR
09:36 AM pokmo: yeah
09:36 AM pokmo: rue_house, that's relatively low, right?
09:37 AM rue_house: so at 300mA, 4.2V with mm, only .09V loss, sounds like you could mostly run the servo with it
09:37 AM z64555: mR? Reinkin?
09:37 AM rue_house: R = nonunicode ohm
09:37 AM rue_house: ega
09:38 AM pokmo: rue_house, "4.2V with mm" what's mm?
09:38 AM rue_house: heh 5h charge time...
09:38 AM rue_house: mm is hmmm
09:39 AM pokmo: XD
09:39 AM rue_house: I'd suggest 4 cells, 2S2P
09:39 AM rue_house: atleast
09:39 AM pokmo: rue_house, how did you arrive at 0.09V loss?
09:39 AM rue_house: whent eh servos are idle, they pull almost nothing
09:40 AM rue_house: .3R @ .3A
09:40 AM pokmo: oh, of course
09:40 AM rue_house: http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechManual_2014.pdf
09:40 AM pokmo: but drawing 300mA from it wouldn't give 150mAh
09:41 AM rue_house: crap, wrong pdf, worry
09:41 AM pokmo: lol
09:42 AM rue_house: http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/technical/1277751263_20100627-TechManual-Lo.pdf
09:42 AM rue_house: that one
09:42 AM rue_house: page..
09:42 AM pokmo: rue_house, that page earlier seems to suggest an idle current is 6mA
09:42 AM pokmo: that's fairly significant given 150mAh
09:42 AM rue_house: page 10
09:42 AM rue_house: the sg90 was under 1mA
09:43 AM rue_house: this chart can be scaled
09:43 AM rue_house: but we dont ahve to
09:44 AM rue_house: if you pull 600mA from a 300mAh battery, your runtime is about 12 mins
09:44 AM pokmo: so number of cycles is reduced by half at 100% discharge
09:44 AM pokmo: compared to 50%
09:44 AM rue_house: "discharge cutoff 3V"
09:45 AM rue_house: you get 71% discharge max
09:45 AM rue_house: er, hah
09:45 AM rue_house: (other way)
09:45 AM rue_house: 30%
09:45 AM pokmo: how come?
09:45 AM rue_house: otherwise you ruin the battery
09:45 AM pokmo: how did you arrive at 30%?
09:46 AM rue_house: percent(1-(3/4.2))
09:46 AM rue_house: you can take it down to 71%
09:46 AM rue_house: lead acid is down to 80%
09:47 AM rue_house: you cant get 1h from a 1Ah battery at 1A
09:47 AM rue_house: did you look at that chart?
09:47 AM pokmo: sure
09:47 AM rue_house: http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/technical/1277751263_20100627-TechManual-Lo.pdf
09:47 AM pokmo: but isn't it 150mAh until 3V?
09:47 AM rue_house: ^^ the link again, just incase, page 10
09:47 AM pokmo: rue_house, hmm you mean Figure 9?
09:47 AM rue_house: I used .3Ah
09:48 AM rue_house: they didn't put a figure number on it
09:48 AM rue_house: pdf page 10, or page 7
09:48 AM pokmo: oh, page 8
09:48 AM rue_house: 10/28 (pdf page)
09:48 AM pokmo: that too
09:49 AM rue_house: its for lead acid, but its generally applicable
09:49 AM pokmo: right
09:50 AM rue_house: after that top 30%, the remaining energy is piffle
09:50 AM rue_house: just how batteries go
09:51 AM rue_house: 6v, 2S2P dont keep it under lots of load and you might get a few hours
09:51 AM rue_house: dont use linear regulators
09:52 AM pokmo: rue_house, but looking at the battery's spec again, page 2 says "Discharge Capacity: Within 1hr after full charge, discharge until final discharge at 0.2C"
09:53 AM pokmo: what doe sit mean by "full discharge"? until 3V?
09:53 AM pokmo: or until 0V?
09:53 AM z64555: it tells you right there, 0.2C
09:53 AM rue_house: 3V
09:54 AM pokmo: z64555, but that's discharge rate, right
09:54 AM rue_house: 0.2C for a 150mAh battery is 30mA
09:55 AM pokmo: yeah
10:03 AM pokmo: rue_house, thanks for that useful chart
10:29 AM pokmo: rue_house, looking at that chart again, 0.05A discharge rate gives 100% capacity and at 0.2A gives around 75% capacity. by that logic, for LIR2477, if 0.5C gives 150mAh, would 2C (300mA) give roughly 75% capacity as well?
04:32 PM batman_: hey anyone ever work with a esp32 before??
04:36 PM deshipu: no, nobody in the world ever had
04:41 PM batman_: well esp12e then?
04:42 PM deshipu: nobody
04:43 PM deshipu: ever
04:43 PM deshipu: maybe you should ask your real question instead
04:43 PM deshipu: unless you are trying to collect soem kind of statistics?
04:43 PM batman_: no, not at all
04:44 PM batman_: i wanted to reduce the precision of ADC on ESP chips
04:44 PM batman_: but couldn't find any way to do it
04:45 PM deshipu: you can always just right-shift the result
04:45 PM batman_: yes i am currently doing that
04:46 PM deshipu: what's wrong with it?
04:47 PM batman_: but it would proper to reduce the precision as I am working with a startup and we would like the quantization error to be min
04:48 PM deshipu: I'm afraid the adc on the esp8266 is rather primitive
04:48 PM deshipu: the esp32 might be much better
04:49 PM deshipu: by the way, there is an #esp8266 channel where you can get better help
04:49 PM batman_: oh ok nice, thanks
07:01 PM anniepoo: Thinking about head design
07:02 PM Tom_itx: it's like a sucker on a stick profile
07:04 PM anniepoo: 8cD
07:05 PM anniepoo: in some ideal world, the head and neck would be capable of tilting all the way to floor, and
07:05 PM theBear: my head is more like a err, some kinda melon on a err, toothstick ? smaller than a water, bigger than a rock melon, a medium kinda melon
07:05 PM anniepoo: of retracting back inside the shell
07:05 PM theBear: and they do tilt that far, even while back-crippled, due to hyper-flexible nature of theBear's species ;-)
07:06 PM anniepoo: I'm pretty set on the idea that the servos are inside the shell
07:07 PM anniepoo: http://partyserver.rocks/anniepoo/snailxray.png
07:08 PM theBear: holy crap ! nice plans
07:08 PM anniepoo: wondering if I make the whole thing soft, run by tigertail 'strings', if I can pull all the strings back
07:08 PM zhanx: wow 12 servos and evening
07:09 PM anniepoo: by moving the bodies of the servos (eg mount them on a board that itself moves)
07:09 PM anniepoo: yah, it's getting crazy
07:09 PM anniepoo: I'm real concerned about power
07:10 PM zhanx: i was thinking of just trac mounting mine and hiding the tracks
07:10 PM anniepoo: it's what I'm doing
07:10 PM anniepoo: I decided 'real' snail motion would consume too much power
07:10 PM * zhanx got the the cardboard today for it, (free)
07:11 PM anniepoo: now mbrumlow tells me he's had issues with tracks on carpet
07:11 PM zhanx: next i need to print the layout and cut them out with a knife
07:11 PM Tom_itx: use cables to control the head
07:11 PM anniepoo: yes
07:11 PM anniepoo: thinking it'll all be cables.
07:11 PM anniepoo: inside will be layered, laser cut open cell foam
07:12 PM zhanx: anniepoo: food for thought, cables are cheap at walmart (bike shift cables)
07:12 PM anniepoo: so even if one of the little darlings jumps up and down on the head, it won't be damaged
07:12 PM anniepoo: ooh, good observation zhanx
07:12 PM zhanx: it was my thought on the head could for mini snail bot
07:12 PM zhanx: control not could
07:13 PM zhanx: i only planed 4 servos for it
07:13 PM anniepoo: I was thinking push cables - goldenrod cables for model aircraft
07:14 PM zhanx: but then also i thought about making it out of metal and plasma cutting it out
07:14 PM anniepoo: =8cO
07:14 PM anniepoo: the sensor head on the bottom, I'll mill out some UHMW to make a 'cage'
07:15 PM zhanx: granted mine is limited to max size printed on standard paper, which will make it good sized still
07:15 PM anniepoo: so, latest but by no means final, I'm thinking a hinge that makes the jamming gripper and sensor head swing back and up
07:16 PM anniepoo: (so the camera ends up staring at ground)
07:16 PM zhanx: why not use two camera's? I thought you were using 3 to be honest (or maybe a 4th for backup)
07:16 PM anniepoo: and the head and necsk get sucked back into a scrunched up ball with eyes still sticking out
07:17 PM anniepoo: I'm using two cameras
07:17 PM zhanx: i figured 2 for the eyes, 1 for forward motion and 1 "maybe" for backing up
07:17 PM anniepoo: one facing down to adjust position when using jamming gripper, for reading floor fiducials, and reading flat items placed on floor
07:18 PM anniepoo: she also has a specialized IR sensor for edge of table
07:18 PM zhanx: k, i didn't think of an ir sensor for that
07:18 PM anniepoo: and an acoustic rangefinder and PIR sensor mounted in a swiveling sensor head
07:18 PM anniepoo: you can see main camera at very bottom of her neck
07:19 PM anniepoo: above it the swiveling sensor head
07:19 PM zhanx: wow. i was just gonna use a sbc, and 3 cameras to control it all
07:19 PM anniepoo: she'll be semi-autonomous
07:20 PM anniepoo: that demands better sensor suite
07:20 PM zhanx: true
07:20 PM anniepoo: she'll have capacitive touch sensors on skin. Be nice to have force feedback, but I don't think that'll work with a soft robot
07:21 PM anniepoo: (which is the other way to do this - cast the whole thing as a soft robot, mass of air valves inside
07:21 PM zhanx: not unless you plan on using capacitive foam and lots of servos or something
07:21 PM anniepoo: I'd love that except that the pump makes noise
07:21 PM zhanx: and valves dump air and make noise
07:21 PM anniepoo: yes
07:22 PM anniepoo: I actually have an air pump aboard to run the jamming gripper
07:22 PM anniepoo: and the cutter on the printer
07:22 PM zhanx: if you go air let me know, i can source some cheap valves or help with the layout. Its not an airbrake system but its similar
07:22 PM anniepoo: but I'd like to avoid air
07:22 PM anniepoo: Ooh!
07:23 PM zhanx: Certified Air brake diagnostic and repair in New York
07:23 PM anniepoo: I think the industrial automation type of valves are too hefty for this
07:23 PM zhanx: yep
07:23 PM zhanx: you need trailer ones
07:23 PM zhanx: at max
07:24 PM anniepoo: whats a trailer valve?
07:24 PM anniepoo: hmm
07:24 PM anniepoo: sounds interesting
07:24 PM zhanx: I know the brands that are made of abs plastics etc
07:24 PM anniepoo: link?
07:24 PM anniepoo: (1 sec)
07:24 PM zhanx: let me get you one
07:25 PM zhanx: http://www.meritorwabco.com/MeritorWABCO_document/pb9926.pdf
07:25 PM zhanx: page 10 on
07:27 PM zhanx: make sure its EGC for the type (its plastic with fancy words)
07:28 PM anniepoo: none of these seem to be electrically actuated
07:29 PM zhanx: they are air actuated
07:29 PM anniepoo: ah - ok, something I didn't think of
07:29 PM anniepoo: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007D1U64E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
07:29 PM anniepoo: I bought a few of these
07:30 PM anniepoo: they don't have a lot of restriction when open
07:30 PM anniepoo: seemed to work pretty good
07:31 PM anniepoo: I made a prototype jamming gripper a while back, I tried my pump and valve with this, it worked pretty good
07:31 PM zhanx: well i am gonna tell you this air systems operate at a high psi (over 60 psi min) but you can open the valves on most and change the springs
07:32 PM anniepoo: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017QD2M5E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
07:32 PM anniepoo: my pump
07:32 PM anniepoo: 8cD hopefully I don't have to stop a truck
07:32 PM anniepoo: just a snail
07:33 PM zhanx: well with that you would be better off, making your own based off that pdf for what you need. but only 3 printed
07:33 PM zhanx: 3d*
07:33 PM anniepoo: with which?
07:34 PM anniepoo: ah, take it apart and 3D print it?
07:34 PM zhanx: and make it smaller
07:34 PM anniepoo: I made a 'fat reducing belt
07:34 PM zhanx: or use the bade design you see as a guide
07:34 PM anniepoo: for a guy once
07:34 PM anniepoo: (no kidding)
07:35 PM anniepoo: machine shop - they made incredibly tiny valves, about 1cm dia 1cm long with 1/8" ID hose barb on each end
07:35 PM anniepoo: ball bearing ball inside, lifted by a solenoid
07:36 PM anniepoo: if the rest of the robot wasn't so heavy I'd worry about the weight of the air stuff
07:36 PM anniepoo: as it is, I just need one valve.
07:37 PM anniepoo: sorry, 2
07:37 PM zhanx: straws then
07:37 PM anniepoo: straws?
07:37 PM anniepoo: I have a machine shop and 3D printer
07:38 PM anniepoo: but am not philosophically opposed to bodging 8cD
07:38 PM zhanx: ball bearing in a straw, air one way moves this way. air the other etc
07:38 PM anniepoo: I have, in current design, two air activated items
07:39 PM anniepoo: knife that cuts the paper and jamming gripper
07:39 PM zhanx: brb testing newly fixed dryer out
07:40 PM anniepoo: I actuate the pump, output side feeds knife, valve 1 exhausts
07:41 PM anniepoo: inlet side connects to jamming gripper and to valve 2
07:41 PM anniepoo: open valve 1 and close 2, turn on pump, jamming gripper actuates
07:42 PM anniepoo: open valve 2, close valve 1, turn on pump, knife actuates
07:44 PM anniepoo: hmm....
07:45 PM anniepoo: I can get rid of the sensor turret - just add ability to deform there
07:45 PM anniepoo: software has to be smart enough to keep moving that area
07:46 PM anniepoo: 3 mins
07:52 PM anniepoo: back
07:52 PM anniepoo: I need to run a mass of laundry
07:53 PM anniepoo: I'll be back on in 10 mins, going home
08:08 PM Anniepoo_: So, back
08:09 PM Anniepoo_: I can see rubber parts in my future
08:10 PM Anniepoo_: what do I need to print with ninjaflex?
08:15 PM theBear: err, rubber parts i guess ?
08:15 PM Anniepoo_: yes
08:15 PM Anniepoo_: well, I mean, do I need a certain extruder, or ???
08:15 PM theBear: orright, sounds like a plan to me <cheeky grin>
08:20 PM Anniepoo_: 15 mins, going to load the laundry
08:25 PM Guest15150: ninjaflex eh?
08:26 PM Guest15150: its my understanding the primary differance is temp and feel rate, Likes a heated bed aswell.
08:26 PM Guest15150: I have a cpl meters at rue's shop but i havent tried it yet
08:39 PM Anniepoo_: sounds interesting
08:39 PM Anniepoo_: I might have to try a roll
08:40 PM Anniepoo_: also looking at LAYFOMM
08:58 PM Anniepoo_: yup
08:59 PM Anniepoo_: hmm.... now I'm other filament curious
09:07 PM zhanx: took a chance, i had to run to the inlaws house on the way back mini fridge on the side of the road, needs cleaning but works fine
09:08 PM z64555: heh
09:09 PM zhanx: its one of the hundred dollar dorm ones.
09:10 PM Anniepoo_: nice!
09:12 PM zhanx: i figured if it didn't run. vacuum pump a/c conversion out of the compressor. nope. BEER fridge
09:13 PM zhanx: use the insulated box to keep my new to me as i have not bought yet welding stuff dry. but hey it works
09:15 PM Anniepoo_: sounds like a good deal!
09:16 PM zhanx: free is great
09:16 PM Anniepoo_: 8cD free is always great
09:17 PM z64555: do you have any refridgeration tools to check it
09:17 PM * Anniepoo_ is sitting on chair she bought at garage sale for $5 or something, and fabulous old 1953 dining table she bought for $50
09:17 PM z64555: at the very least a fridge thermometer
09:17 PM zhanx: z64555: yea just a few
09:18 PM zhanx: i am EPA universal certified with all the tools etc
09:18 PM z64555: nice
09:18 PM Anniepoo_: =8cD
09:18 PM z64555: so that means I can take my old window units to you to drain them, right? :D
09:18 PM zhanx: yes
09:18 PM z64555: neat
09:19 PM zhanx: i can certified drained
09:19 PM Guest15150: If your in canada i could do it for you..lol
09:19 PM Guest15150: Ive drained about 400 fidges over the last 4 months
09:20 PM Guest15150 is now known as The_jester
09:20 PM zhanx: i mainly seem to do 404a right now.
09:21 PM The_jester: I mostly see very young 134A fridges that have dead compressors.. SHits garbage now days
09:21 PM synja: i dare not open my minifridge
09:21 PM synja: years old chinese food
09:21 PM zhanx: which is funny as the place i work for does not know what uni is and the guy they contracted out to messed it up etc.
09:22 PM synja: jeez The_jester
09:22 PM zhanx: synja: my neighbor has a 15 year old fridge with no power on it never opened. that is scary
09:22 PM zhanx: The_jester: you are right they are junk now
09:22 PM The_jester: work for a company who has the recovery contract with the landfill
09:23 PM zhanx: naa i got paid 44.75 an hour to drive 6 hours today for 4 minutes of work
09:23 PM z64555: lol
09:24 PM theBear: zhanx, experience more than a couple times here and there tells me that the worst of things in that long dead fridge passed by years ago, might still have some odor and likely some goopey nasty melted ex-stuff here and there, but it's the first year or two imh-exp. that the really heavy cartoonish instant-gag/vomit kinda responses are likely to be caused
09:24 PM zhanx: boss is still mad cause i don't care if i work or not
09:25 PM zhanx: theBear: true. i got 20 doing this so i agree, hence the i took a chance it was dirty not nasty
09:25 PM theBear: ooh, and pro-tip, if yer worried and don't wanna deal with whatever is or isn't in the thing, gaffer tape or strap the thing closed, take it to a old style landfill tip/dump and dump it without ever looking in there :)
09:26 PM theBear: zhanx, lol, of all te things fer a boss to be grumpy bout, what kinda headcase would choose your feelings about if you work to bother 'em
09:26 PM zhanx: theBear: if i open it and i want to throw up its not coming with me
09:26 PM z64555: he could just be envious
09:26 PM synja: zhanx, that would be mine
09:26 PM zhanx: he wants people that need to work. I make more from etc than there
09:27 PM theBear: zhanx, oh yeah, i forgot to mention something like a ute or a small truck should be used, something where the big stuff isn't in the same box as you are :)
09:27 PM synja: ^ lol
09:27 PM synja: even still
09:27 PM synja: need like a PPE with clorox pressure washer
09:27 PM theBear: zhanx, and note, i said seal it and dump it WITHOUT looking inside, if you choose that approach, cos ya know, can't go wrong if ya never open the thing
09:27 PM z64555: sanitize it with a kerosean bath
09:27 PM z64555: and a match
09:28 PM synja: with some fridges, i'm sure their contents have fermented enough to omit the kerosene
09:28 PM zhanx: theBear: it was on the side of the road, check it clean and send it
09:28 PM theBear: dig a double wide grave hole in the backyard and chuck it in, then order a concrete mixey truck worth of concrete or super fancy straight cement and just tell em to back up to the hole adn dump all they got :)
09:28 PM zhanx: it was not nasty
09:29 PM theBear: contacts ? kerosene ? i thought we were talking about long-dead foodstuffs inside nasty
09:29 PM synja: so you're just taking the coolant out of it?
09:29 PM zhanx: if it was it could stay there
09:29 PM zhanx: synja: nope
09:29 PM z64555: synja: nah, he's using it for something
09:30 PM z64555: I sidetracked him by asking if he had tools/experiance with maintaining it
09:30 PM zhanx: i am like rue i re-purpose everything
09:30 PM zhanx: side tracked them z64555
09:30 PM z64555: oh, guess I did
09:30 PM theBear: synja, i didn't say that, note i said a few times that this is the "i do NOT want to deal with this potentially nightmarish white box i wanna get outta my place" approach, not the do the right thing and salvage/dismantle in a responsible and appropriate manner :)
09:31 PM synja: i was talking to zhanx & The_jester, moreso
09:34 PM theBear: oh, don't worry, either way i wasn't offended, just clarifying my hint/tip
09:34 PM zhanx: aka theBear if it stinks don't touch it, and yea synja i got it
09:34 PM zhanx: fyi dryer hack is like sucking
09:34 PM zhanx: need to change the high temp limit some
09:35 PM theBear: zhanx, basically, but i'd word it more like "if it probably stinks BAAAAAD, make sure you never confirm or err, un-confirm that probably"
09:35 PM zhanx: i am probably the lazy hacker of stuff on the plant
09:35 PM zhanx: planet
09:36 PM synja: meh not that easy to determine the smell without opening them
09:36 PM synja: esp if the seal is still good
09:36 PM zhanx: synja: open if you want to barf leave it there
09:37 PM theBear: cos a bad one is just SO very bad, and this coming from a dude that doesn't particularly mind crawling round under strangers bathroom floors with only inches to move vertically, almost face-to-pvc with some busted sewer/toilet pipe you down there to fix for 'em , and y aknow, toilet out pipes ain't exactly known for the way they only ever pass crystal clear fresh water , if ya know what i mean :)
09:38 PM zhanx: theBear: true
09:39 PM theBear: i don't exactly volunteer for those kinda jobs either btw, but ya know, short version "theBear ain't no princess that has a need to be shielded from the nasties out in the wild world"
09:39 PM zhanx: think this thing is getting motor street ready red as a paint job
09:40 PM theBear: zhanx, that's a good start, but remember that a racing number and a stripe or two in cool looking locations make it even faster than red alone :)
09:41 PM zhanx: true 55 mph or 500 feet you need to read it
09:43 PM theBear: i think it might be a bit like that slot quantum experiment, the reading isn't important, sure it changes the trip, but the result is ultimately the same :)
09:52 PM aberon: hello Linux my old friend :.)
09:57 PM theBear: umm, hello mmm, libssl, your honor
09:58 PM Anniepoo_: i've come to segfault you again
09:58 PM Anniepoo_: while your streams were softly beeping
09:59 PM Anniepoo_: gcced while I was sleeping
10:00 PM Anniepoo_: and my vision, it's tied up in gstreamer... I can't hear
10:00 PM Anniepoo_: cause alsas....
10:00 PM Anniepoo_: on the fritz....
10:01 PM z64555: nevermind the dusty windows box napping in the corner
10:01 PM z64555: :D
10:07 PM aberon: Anniepoo_, very nice.
10:07 PM synja: heh
10:07 PM Anniepoo_: 8cD
10:28 PM * z64555 tries to remember what a voltage regulator circuit looks like
10:32 PM theBear is now known as theBearBear
10:32 PM theBearBear is now known as theBear
10:35 PM aberon: z64555, with an LM chip or without a chip?
10:36 PM z64555: without
10:37 PM * aberon prepares long-lasting travel cookies for z64555 , adds a pipe with the fines tobacco in the Shire
10:37 PM aberon: go on then
10:38 PM * aberon maliciously doesn't mention a dozen transistors he also threw in the travel bag
10:39 PM z64555: I think it's a FET
10:39 PM Anniepoo_: as long as you didn't throw them in the travel cookies
10:40 PM * Anniepoo_ hands aberon a cookie. Now he gets lots of strange ads
10:41 PM Anniepoo_: at one point I and some friends all ran a little program that took cookies in our local cache that were from known ad servers and randomly swapped them with each other
10:41 PM z64555: of course I could try the op-amp approach
10:44 PM aberon: Anniepoo_, how randomly?
10:44 PM aberon: nicely distributed random?
10:44 PM Anniepoo_: yup
10:46 PM Anniepoo_: at random intervals it randomly called the central server and said "here's a cookie for doubleclick" and it would hand you somebody else's back
10:46 PM Anniepoo_: 8cD we figured this would drive them nuts
10:46 PM Anniepoo_: I think the guy who started it imagined half the computers on the net doing this
10:47 PM Anniepoo_: in practice it was about a dozen peopple, and most of us
10:47 PM Anniepoo_: eventually quit using it
10:47 PM aberon: lol
10:51 PM Anniepoo_: I'm back to my weird fascination with foam rubber
11:03 PM rue_house: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIi'm baaaack!!!!!!!!!!
11:03 PM rue_house: the ups oopsed again, I checked out the batteries, one of them drops to 1V with a 1R load
11:03 PM rue_house: :/
11:03 PM rue_house: so I put in my spare
11:04 PM rue_house: turns out, its a 74Ah battery
11:04 PM rue_house: and at that I'm out of spares, I might have to buy new battereis
11:08 PM rue_house: ... or 84... damn
11:08 PM rue_house: https://www.altestore.com/store/deep-cycle-batteries/sealed-agm-batteries/concorde-sun-xtender-pvx-840t-12v-84ah-agm-battery-p310/
11:08 PM rue_house: hmm I have a feeling the going price might hurt
11:10 PM z64555: oh, nice, I have a LM317K I can use
11:10 PM z64555: er, somewhere
11:11 PM rue_house: BENCH SUPPLY!
11:11 PM rue_house: all of 3A, at 72W heat dissipation
11:16 PM theBear: heh, was trying to find a short on a psu rail ona little digital + analog kinda 20x15cm size thru hole board yesterday.... was forcing a solid 25+A outta my crazy modern switchey bench psu at the very few volts it was managing to pull across the short and the not MASSIVE clip leads i usually use cos they already hooked up to it, at ya know, maybe 3-5 volts on a 12v rail (including my clip/test leads drop, but was pumping it into this thing) and i
11:16 PM theBear: literally couldn't get anything to smoke or even detect a warm area on the pcb ! eventualyl i got bored and just rerouted some stuff to avoid the problem area, and it all seems to still do what it sposed to do perfectly, but it blows my mind that the psu was pumping out that kinda wattage and nothing was smoking !
11:18 PM Anniepoo_: you sure you werent in current limit mode?
11:19 PM rue_shop3: hmm thats bad, the 3d printer just broke the OTHER gear
11:21 PM Anniepoo_: rue, you have lots of stuff that breaks
11:23 PM * aberon stares
11:23 PM theBear: Anniepoo_, yep, cos you can hear the switchey whine change really easily cos it got some rattley cheap inductors or something in there that you can hear easily while you using (handy as a kinda orugh no-look current/misconnection indicator for various bench/whatever uses) and on top of that the voltage and current meters instantly drop to 0 and the little red led comes on and it needs a power cycle to wake back up (it's the craziest effing bench
11:23 PM theBear: supply spec i can imagine, but it was gifted/inherited from a good buddy i help out a lot where i can, so i wasn't gonna turn down a non-home-made huge eff-off bench supply complete with fancy spensive connectey nana screwterms and two little vu/panel-meters on the front panel etc
11:25 PM Anniepoo_: 8cD
11:26 PM rue_shop3: I cant find the model for it...
11:27 PM rue_shop3: maybe I should just cnc some metal gears for it
11:27 PM Anniepoo_: =8cO hob them!
11:27 PM rue_shop3: aha
11:28 PM rue_shop3: extrudergearmod
11:31 PM rue_shop3: ok, printing 3
11:39 PM Anniepoo_: silly question
11:39 PM rue_house: its not a design flaw
11:40 PM Anniepoo_: I have this dancing robot I'm making
11:40 PM rue_house: twisted wire
11:40 PM rue_house: groot
11:40 PM rue_house: silicone
11:40 PM rue_house: 3d printed
11:40 PM rue_house: modded i2
11:40 PM Anniepoo_: I figured I'd use 1/8" welding rod, thread each end and use nuts and washers to attach
11:41 PM rue_house: I'v discovered something that feels like the meaning to life, the universe, and everything
11:41 PM Anniepoo_: in between it passes through a hole with a little clearance
11:41 PM rue_house: 6-32
11:41 PM rue_house: low % thread tho, carefull tightening
11:41 PM Anniepoo_: is it normally possible to thread 1/8" rod with 6-32?
11:41 PM rue_house: yes
11:41 PM Anniepoo_: I couldn't get our only 6-32 die on it
11:41 PM Anniepoo_: ok, then the die was just borked
11:41 PM rue_house: might help if you make custom nuts tho
11:42 PM rue_house: die in vise, rod in drill
11:42 PM rue_house: OIL
11:42 PM Anniepoo_: 8cD why? I and out on #robotics, I have lots of custom nuts
11:42 PM rue_house: sharp die is your friend
11:42 PM Anniepoo_: s/and/hang/
11:42 PM rue_house: nuthang?
11:43 PM rue_house: I dont think the regex applied correctly
11:43 PM Anniepoo_: I see Nuthang, nuthang!
11:43 PM Anniepoo_: 8cD
11:43 PM rue_house: oh the regex itself was parsed wrong
11:43 PM rue_house: ah, fixed
11:44 PM Anniepoo_: <-C8c)
11:44 PM rue_house: not the corner!!!!
11:45 PM Anniepoo_: Haven't thouht about Hogans Heros in many years
11:45 PM rue_house: I forgot to do my wiener, brb
11:45 PM Anniepoo_: probably for the best
11:46 PM rue_house: almost left it on high
11:47 PM rue_house: I have to go shopping
11:47 PM rue_house: hashbrowns and wiener
11:47 PM rue_house: and no gravy damnit
11:47 PM rue_house: I think I know a lot more about how I work today
11:48 PM rue_house: there is still something I dont get tho
11:48 PM rue_house: oh, drat there was an led chaser circuit I didn't follow up on
11:49 PM rue_house: http://har-dwareb-log.blogspot.ca/2011/08/polarized-light-art-polframe.html
11:49 PM rue_house: anniepoo, there is a cool distraction project
11:50 PM rue_house: http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/MOSFET/images/3-ChaserWithFETs.gif
11:50 PM rue_house: good thing I didn't try to think it up using bipolar
11:53 PM Anniepoo_: gasp, analog
11:53 PM theBear: rue_house, "<rue_house> anniepoo, there is a cool distraction project" dammit ! quiet man ! you'll bungle the whole project, all the work that we put in to be unnoticed and considered human here, not to mention the world class nonsense programmery from which i was ultimately borned :)
11:54 PM rue_house: anniepoo, thats not analog
11:54 PM rue_house: its digital
11:54 PM rue_house: like that pwm circuit
11:55 PM rue_house: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/micropwm/p1080966.jpg
11:55 PM rue_house: its digital
11:55 PM Anniepoo_: =8cO also analog
11:56 PM rue_house: lets say I have a state machine with 2 inputs, and 1 output
11:56 PM rue_house: inputs A, B output Y
11:56 PM rue_house: if Y is triggered when A is triggered first, then B, how do I write a formula for that
11:56 PM Anniepoo_: Pomatia should steal a leaf from a plant in the libra\ry
11:57 PM * rue_house thinks, and changes clothes...
11:58 PM rue_house: Y = A,B
11:58 PM rue_house: but what if there is a C, and I want Y to trigger if A or B, then C
11:58 PM rue_house: Y = (A|B),C
11:58 PM rue_house: ok smartass