#robotics Logs
May 08 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:13 AM mrdata: answer: at a snails pace
12:15 AM rue_shop3: huh, its bedtime and my system is dumping melatonin on me
12:15 AM rue_shop3: funny timing
12:15 AM rue_shop3: better eat supper quick, I ahve a half hour of being tired left
12:15 AM rue_shop3: (melatonin has a half hour half life, go figure)
12:16 AM orlock: yeah
12:16 AM orlock: i need to remind me better half of that fact
12:31 AM rue_house: well now thats odd
12:32 AM rue_house: cpu heatsinks dont come with thermal dissipation numbers
12:32 AM rue_house: */W
01:34 AM mrdata: no but you can calculate that, maybe
01:35 AM mrdata: given a typical heat sink material, (usually aluminum), and surface area and thickness
01:35 AM Anniepoo_: depends on many factors
01:35 AM mrdata: um,
01:35 AM mrdata: ok yes, like air flow
01:35 AM Anniepoo_: notably air flow
01:35 AM mrdata: :P
01:36 AM mrdata: maybe there's a calculator
01:37 AM mrdata: i wonder if 3d modelling tools will do that
01:37 AM mrdata: solidworks, comsol, etc
01:39 AM mrdata: rue_house, does your cpu heat sink have its own fan?
01:49 AM mrdata: let's say you have 6.5 cm^2 of aluminum, 1 cm thick ; Al thermal conductivity is 205.0 W/(m·K); 6.5 cm^2 * (0.01 m/cm)^2/(0.01 m) * 205 = 13.325 W/K, so that's 13 watts per degree C
01:51 AM mrdata: and air flow would be holding the open side at much closer to ambient temperature
01:51 AM mrdata: say 30C so if temperatur difference is 40C, then that would give 533 watts
01:54 AM mrdata: insert realistic numbers where needed
02:35 AM SpeedEvil: Or you do it the more sane way
02:35 AM SpeedEvil: you look up the CPU specs permitted for it, assume 35C case temp, look up CPU max watts, and back out C/W
02:35 AM SpeedEvil: (with a fan)
03:22 AM tttb2 is now known as tttb
04:01 AM veverak: hmm
04:01 AM * veverak got this crazy idea
04:01 AM veverak: typical i3, is moving heated bed on Y axis and still frame, yes?
04:01 AM veverak: what if I would make it the other way around?
04:02 AM veverak: static heated bed and moving entire frame on Y axis?
04:02 AM deshipu: consider inertia
04:03 AM deshipu: you want the moving parts to be as light as possible
04:04 AM veverak: yeah
04:05 AM veverak: but that way of moving could increase the heatedbed to 200x400mm
04:05 AM veverak: (without increasing the size of printing space it's pointless)
04:37 AM deshipu: there is also the problem of rigidity
04:37 AM deshipu: if you are moving a high frame, any small angle of vibration will get translated to a bigger angle, because of the lever
04:37 AM veverak: deshipu: I don't have standart i3 frame
04:38 AM veverak: http://www.geeetech.com/wiki/images/thumb/7/75/IMG_2077.jpg/500px-IMG_2077.jpg
04:39 AM veverak: in alu version, has quite nice rigidity
04:40 AM deshipu: veverak: a fraction of degree of tilt at the bottom will translate to millimeters of movement at the top of the frame
04:40 AM deshipu: veverak: and you need some play in the bearings for it to be able to move
04:40 AM synja: <veverak> but that way of moving could increase the heatedbed to 200x400mm
04:40 AM synja: <veverak> (without increasing the size of printing space it's pointless)
04:40 AM synja: yeah something like that would be desirable
04:41 AM veverak: deshipu: that's construction relevant
04:41 AM deshipu: veverak: have you seen the SCARA version of reprap? :)
04:41 AM veverak: deshipu: if you have '400mm' high frame
04:41 AM veverak: and carriage that is 200mm long, with bearings at it's start/end
04:42 AM veverak: and proper quality bearings
04:42 AM veverak: you won't be able to even notice the movement of top ;)
04:42 AM veverak: deshipu: yeah, not exactly fan of it
04:42 AM deshipu: why not?
04:42 AM deshipu: it's the same direction as the deltas -- small, light header and stationary bed
04:43 AM deshipu: only more compact than the deltas
04:43 AM veverak: got same problem as deltas
04:43 AM veverak: "bowden extruder"
04:43 AM veverak: and I believe that for same price, I can get delta which is more rigid
04:43 AM veverak: and size of the machine is not a problem anyway
04:44 AM deshipu: well, prices are going to change as the design evolves
04:45 AM veverak: I am not impressed enough to assert it can beat the deltas ;)
04:45 AM deshipu: if you have the room for the deltas, sure
04:47 AM deshipu: I think it also has a chance of being stronger than the deltas, perhaps even able to hold a small cnc tool
04:47 AM veverak: deshipu: I would like to be conviced otherwise
04:48 AM veverak: but I think that "cage" construction will beat this
04:50 AM deshipu: cage?
04:50 AM veverak: delta -> robot is moving inside frame/cage
04:51 AM veverak: while SCARA has something which is more like "arm stretching from the printer"
04:51 AM veverak: deshipu: what I am more interested now is hackerspace project
04:51 AM veverak: we has old server rack mount
04:51 AM veverak: *have
04:51 AM veverak: small one
04:52 AM veverak: -> we want to build a 3d printer inside
04:52 AM deshipu: from vegas
04:53 AM deshipu: https://youtu.be/tajyfVqfM1w?t=161
05:11 AM veverak: :D
05:11 AM veverak: deshipu: reminds me
05:12 AM veverak: http://www.china-cncrouter.com/upfile/product/Acrylic-CNC-3040-Router-with-USB-Controller-Box_2.jpg
05:12 AM veverak: we have this in hackerspace
05:12 AM veverak: basically, I would like to modify my i3 to same construction
05:12 AM deshipu: that probably involves a complete rebuild of the whole frame
05:13 AM veverak: I think I can avoid that
05:13 AM veverak: just completely new Y axis
05:13 AM veverak: with carriage for the frame
05:21 AM deshipu: veverak: just make a walking spider bot with an extruder
05:22 AM deshipu: looking like this: http://www.simonstalenhag.se/bilderbig/by_cablers_1920.jpg
07:09 AM veverak: good idea
07:14 AM deshipu: unlimited print volume
12:44 PM anniepoo: only problem with printing spider is locating the spider accurately
12:47 PM robotustra: did anybody worked with RN-42?
12:47 PM robotustra: did anybody work with RN-42?
01:09 PM mrdata: https://binaryloom.com/an-ai-just-defeated-human-fighter-pilots-in-an-air-combat-simulator/
01:11 PM robotustra: mrdata: AI autopilot was done even by russians during Buran-Energy program mant many years ago
01:11 PM robotustra: buran module landed by AI autopilot
01:11 PM mrdata: sure
01:12 PM mrdata: so are we going to have AIs fighting AIs?
01:12 PM anniepoo: We already are
01:13 PM mrdata: so terminator is on its way, then
01:13 PM robotustra: there are american pilots, ai pilots and russian pilots
01:13 PM robotustra: ai pilots can fuck up american pilots, and russian pilots still can fuck up AI pilots and american pilots
01:14 PM anniepoo: pretty much
01:15 PM anniepoo: Modern ASW and ASW defense is highly algorithmic, and uses search algorithms on both sides, so I'd say it's 'AI'
01:17 PM robotustra: no AI can fly like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMVtrruz3sY
01:19 PM robotustra: this one even better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVlmoNtcyhY
01:48 PM jesseg: robotustra, hmmm. I guess I would see there as being a difference between the autopilot and the AI
01:49 PM jesseg: the autopilot could certainly handle that kind of flying (and in fact those jets probably have a full time pilot controlled autopilot)
01:50 PM jesseg: but I really don't see why AI couldn't fly like that if the enemy was was flying like that.
01:51 PM robotustra: jesseg: ia does not exist yet, sorry
01:51 PM robotustra: jesseg: AI
01:53 PM jesseg: ahh well I'm glad we got that cleared up :D
01:53 PM SpeedEvil: 'AI doesn't exist' - but things that computers are better at than humans get called not AI
01:55 PM jesseg: It gets called not AI?
01:55 PM robotustra: computers are better than humans, agree
01:55 PM robotustra: they don't fuck your brain much
01:56 PM jesseg: I guess if we define intelligence to only be intelligence if it equals the most complex brain known to mankind, then yeah, there's no such thing as artificial intelligence...
01:57 PM jesseg: Because we'd have to have a computer that could start out as blank as a baby's brain, and learn everything a human could learn in all the same ways..
01:57 PM jesseg: i.e. the computer would have to learn to not pick up hot things because it'd cause it pain... how do you cause a computer pain? :P
01:58 PM jesseg: but, the only way we have a chance call something AI is to simply make a computer act human like in one small predefined realm
01:58 PM robotustra: no,
01:59 PM robotustra: intelligence - is just an ability to solve problems
01:59 PM jesseg: I think that oversimplifies it
01:59 PM robotustra: if you have a set of algorithms solving some class of problems - you already have an intelligence
01:59 PM jesseg: but anyway I have problems go solve so I must take leave for a bit :D
01:59 PM robotustra: it's a core definition of intelligence
02:00 PM jesseg: at least I hope I solve them and don't make them worse
02:00 PM jesseg: :P
02:00 PM jesseg: Cya
02:00 PM robotustra: bye
02:01 PM robotustra: to behave like human it's not necessary to have any intelligence
02:35 PM chatter29: hey guys
02:35 PM chatter29: allah is doing
02:35 PM chatter29: sun is not doing allah is doing
02:35 PM chatter29: to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
03:27 PM jandor: hi
03:28 PM jandor: how goes it?
03:35 PM Snert_: it goers. as it usually goes. On a day when going is the usual.
03:36 PM Snert_: We're here, we're no closer to AI.
03:53 PM jandor: :(
03:53 PM jandor: any project to share with me?
03:53 PM jandor: any help needed?
03:54 PM jandor: I want to participate in something
03:54 PM jandor: anything at all
03:54 PM jandor: involving python/list/haskell/whatever
03:54 PM jandor: p
03:55 PM deshipu: veverak: you were looking for encoders? https://hackaday.io/project/17079-mocoder-magnetic-encoder
03:55 PM veverak: lol
03:55 PM veverak: nice
03:55 PM veverak: !
03:55 PM veverak: deshipu: :)
03:57 PM robopal: 12bit magnetic encoder!
03:58 PM veverak: deshipu: that price is not favourable
03:58 PM veverak: but we have cnc machine in hackerspace for that
03:58 PM veverak: :)
03:59 PM deshipu: veverak: well, I bet that the chip itself is much cheaper
04:00 PM veverak: 1.5$ to be precise
04:00 PM veverak: :)
04:06 PM deshipu: it costs a lot to make a product for tindie in small quantities
04:07 PM veverak: makes sense
04:07 PM robotustra: have anybody tried RN-42 in HID mode?
04:07 PM veverak: deshipu: it's more like I would buy 2 of them to support him
04:07 PM deshipu: veverak: yeah
04:07 PM deshipu: veverak: if you can
05:36 PM chatter29: hey guys
05:36 PM chatter29: allah is doing
05:36 PM chatter29: sun is not doing allah is doing
05:36 PM chatter29: to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
07:50 PM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser
07:59 PM z64555: well, at least the spambot's frequency has gone down
08:01 PM mrdata: it's owner is trying to find that sweet spot where he doesnt get k-lined
08:04 PM z64555: really wish he'd change "slave" to "servant," it has less negative connotations
08:06 PM Tom_L: parent / child
08:17 PM rue_house: I have about 16usd I can spend
08:18 PM * rue_house rubs his hands and looks for his aliexpress tabs
08:20 PM rue_house: ok 10.21 left
08:25 PM rue_house: 5.19 left
08:26 PM rue_house: there was somethign i wanted to get...
08:35 PM rue_house: 2n7000 and piezeos!
08:37 PM rue_house: 2.67 left
08:41 PM mrdata: plus shipping
08:42 PM rue_house: nope, china, FREE
08:42 PM rue_house: therE! -$1.34 left!
08:43 PM rue_house: 50 peizos for pressure sensors, 100 transisitrso for pressure sensors, 500 leds for FUUUUUUUUN, 20 binding posts for POWER SUPPLIES
08:44 PM rue_house: dosnt seem like much for $25cad
08:45 PM rue_house: but it only look me like 3 hours to earn, so, whatever
08:45 PM * rue_house fondles the new panel meters that arrived for the new power supply he's gonna make
08:46 PM rue_house: and the 1/4" collette arrived for the new CNC
08:46 PM rue_house: i could go MILL SOMETHING
08:47 PM rue_house: ooo I could go mill the new cnc sacrificial peice flat
08:47 PM rue_house: or I could take a nap
08:47 PM rue_house: or cast some concrete
08:48 PM rue_house: or burry more solar powered lights in the yard
08:57 PM rue_house: or take a nap
09:43 PM zhanx: i vote nap
10:30 PM rue_house: oh crap
10:30 PM Tom_L: ?!?!?!?
10:31 PM rue_house: ok ok TOMMOROW is voting day ,and yea, 8pm and cutoff
10:31 PM Tom_L: phew
10:32 PM Tom_L: you got 24 hrs to miss it again
10:33 PM rue_shop3: hah, ... yea.