#robotics Logs
Apr 23 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:48 AM rue_shop3: who knows the proper spacing for bannnannna plugs?
12:58 AM Tom_itx: 3/4"
12:59 AM Tom_itx: home theater is 1"
01:24 AM chatter29: hey guys
01:24 AM chatter29: allah is doing
01:24 AM chatter29: sun is not doing allah is doing
01:24 AM chatter29: to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
02:30 AM z64555: yep
02:30 AM z64555: wonder if the bot is shooting for "once a day" now
02:50 AM rue_shop3: ann....
02:50 AM rue_shop3: wtf, where do they come from?
02:51 AM rue_shop3: wonder if I can make a bot that kicks people who say "allah is doing"
02:51 AM rue_shop3: making power supply
02:51 AM rue_shop3: doing face layout now
03:03 AM jandor: ha
03:03 AM jandor: that's funny
03:03 AM jandor: I live in officially islamic part of russia
03:03 AM jandor: and nobody here does that ^
03:06 AM jandor: only people coming from , say, Egypt
03:06 AM jandor: or Iran
03:06 AM jandor: even Syrian don't do that
03:07 AM jandor: it might be unpolite to use "even" ^\
03:08 AM jandor: Hello,
03:08 AM jandor: I'm a network administrator of Interlinked. I've noticed we've had a lot of problems with a spammer who is using KiwiIRC to send out spam in this format (mostly elided to prevent spreading spam around):
03:08 AM jandor: > <Guest_84847> allah is doing
03:08 AM jandor: > <Guest_84847> sun is not doing allah is doing
03:08 AM jandor: > ...
03:09 AM jandor: A cursory Googling shows that this spammer has plagued other networks as well. This person seems to be using proxies to do this.
03:09 AM jandor: Is there anything that can be done KiwiIRC side to stop this? I don't want to resort to "big stick" remedies like spamfilter.
03:09 AM jandor: Regards,
03:09 AM jandor: Elizabeth
03:12 AM z64555: looks good, send it
03:12 AM z64555: :)
03:17 AM rue_shop3: theBear, you awake?
03:34 AM Jak_o_Shadows: It's 5:30 or 6pm in aus
03:52 AM jandor: it's a quote!
03:52 AM jandor: not my letter
04:14 AM rue_shop3: theBear, you up!?
08:27 AM rue_house: I best get to bed tonight
12:43 PM teurastaja: hey i implemented a PID controller now i need a turning mechanism. 4 wheel drive, no steering. need to turn by controlling left/right wheels independently
12:43 PM teurastaja: equations? anything?
12:46 PM teurastaja: using a DAC. 0x200 means no movement, 0x0000 means fully backwards and 0x03FF means fully forward
12:54 PM rue_bed: ok, its signedd
12:55 PM teurastaja: signed? no its an unsigned short int
12:55 PM rue_bed: what you described is a funny signed value
12:56 PM rue_bed: its sshifted one place
12:56 PM teurastaja: dont worry about the values say its -1 to 1
12:57 PM rue_bed: its pid
12:57 PM rue_bed: what of the 3 types of pid is it?
12:57 PM teurastaja: there are 3 types?
12:57 PM rue_bed: ... iirc basic, standard, and ideal
12:58 PM rue_bed: it effects tuning
12:58 PM teurastaja: dont know about those...?
12:58 PM rue_bed: cause the values have different meanings
12:58 PM teurastaja: ill tune it manually
12:58 PM rue_bed: well google / youtube it
12:58 PM rue_bed: basic is a snot to tune
12:59 PM rue_bed: I finished the power supply last night,
12:59 PM rue_bed: well, at 4am
01:00 PM rue_bed: used digital meters :/
01:01 PM rue_bed: and had to use a larger case than I wanted to, to fit the '20v' transformer
01:01 PM teurastaja: https://pastebin.com/nb7pnVPH
01:01 PM teurastaja: here it is
01:01 PM teurastaja: dont know what kind of PID that is
01:02 PM teurastaja: a simple type?
01:02 PM rue_bed: I think its ideal
01:03 PM teurastaja: anyway i need a turning mechanism on a 4-wheel drive, no steering
01:03 PM rue_bed: o turning
01:03 PM rue_bed: thought you said tuning
01:04 PM rue_bed: do you have omni wheels or are you just breaking things to try to turn'?
01:05 PM teurastaja: i have a DAC, 4 channels on 4 motors
01:05 PM rue_bed: calc now - 4am
01:05 PM rue_bed: its 6hrs isn't it
01:05 PM rue_bed: hmmm
01:05 PM teurastaja: i have to turn by having a speed difference left vs right wheels
01:06 PM rue_bed: so your just dragging wheels...
01:06 PM teurastaja: yes
01:07 PM rue_bed: you will have to use location feedback and big batteries
01:07 PM rue_bed: even tracks dont give you repeatable turning
01:07 PM teurastaja: i do have an array of 5 sensors
01:07 PM teurastaja: its all taken care of
01:07 PM teurastaja: by me of course
01:09 PM teurastaja: just wrote the driver for the DAC and i have the PID. now i just need to translate -1 to 1 into turning left and right
01:09 PM teurastaja: any existing equation?
01:11 PM teurastaja: maybe i dont need an equation if the time lapse is short enough i could temporarily turn full spin
01:11 PM teurastaja: what do you think?
01:47 PM rue_house: I dont like the 4 wheel independent drive platforms unless they use omniwheels
01:55 PM branjb: what does IPS refer to when it comes to drawings/CAD work?
01:55 PM jandor: hi
05:43 PM z64555: I'm wondering if I should put a tachometer on the motors. Not sure if it would be any help in controlling the quad, tho
05:46 PM z64555: I'm thinking it would just bog down the MCU, since it would essentially need an ISR each time the tach picked up the reference position on the motor
05:48 PM z64555: although I could offload it to a slave chip, like an ATtiny
05:54 PM SpeedEvil: or use smarter ESCs
05:54 PM SpeedEvil: some can report
06:16 PM z64555: that would be the better choice
06:32 PM branjb: what MCU is it? you could do an timer input capture and just read from the register periodically
06:39 PM zhanx: z64555: what kind of quad?
06:51 PM z64555: zhanx: home built. X configuration, somewhere between 1Kg to 2Kg, depending on which batteries I put on it
06:52 PM z64555: branjb: I've got two MCU's that I use. a MiniDragon+ (Freescale HC9S12) that I originally used, and an Steallaris launchpad (TI's LM4F120XL) that I haven't gotten around to programming yet
06:54 PM z64555: I don't remember if the minidragon could do a continous input capture, but I know the launchpad can
06:54 PM branjb: i used that for odometry in one of my robots, as long as the register is 12-32 bits you should have plenty of time for it to accumulate between reads
06:55 PM branjb: 8 bit timer might overflow too quickly
06:55 PM branjb: let the hardware do the work, not the software
06:56 PM z64555: doh, why didn't I think of that
06:56 PM z64555: input capture would count the number of pulses from the motor, then you can divide the number of pulses by the check times to get the average speed
06:57 PM branjb: if your PID loop is timed at say 100 hz, it's super easy to take the current - previous value, and divide by the elapsed time
06:57 PM z64555: *check time delta, period, w/e the actual term is
06:57 PM branjb: yup
07:00 PM z64555: I've been putting off programing the LM4F because I haven't found a way to make the learning process less boring :P
07:01 PM z64555: "Use these tutorials to blink an LED!"
07:01 PM branjb: i keep wanting to learn some of TIs ecosystem, no time for anything fun lately
07:01 PM z64555: --zzz
07:10 PM z64555: unrelated note, Found out today that you shouldn't try to enlarge the hole of a propane torch nozzle
07:10 PM z64555: the brass tube acts as a pressure regulator, in case some liquid gets in there, it won't change the output jet a whole lot
07:11 PM z64555: but if you make the whole too large then you get too much fuel output and not enough air mixture
07:12 PM branjb: how'd you find that out?
07:12 PM z64555: experimentation
07:13 PM z64555: I thought it was odd that you can open the valve all the way and it wouldn't affect the fuel rate at all
07:13 PM z64555: so I tried enlarging the hole, and the rest you know
07:14 PM z64555: Thankfully was able to cold-work the hole to a smaller size, but it isn't the pinhole size it was before
07:16 PM z64555: I should take another round at hitting it with the hammer
07:31 PM * rue_shop3 breathes for a second
07:55 PM rue_shop3: leds flash when they fail
07:55 PM rue_shop3: they fail because the silicone over the die has pulled off the bond wires
07:55 PM rue_shop3: the thermal difference causes them to disconnect, and then reconnect, hence they flash
07:56 PM orlock: i have some real tools now
07:56 PM orlock: yay
07:56 PM orlock: i have a drill press, with a vise that fits it
07:56 PM orlock: and a sliding mitre saw
07:56 PM orlock: so now i can accuratly cut things and put holes in them yay
07:59 PM z64555: woo
08:00 PM rue_shop3: :)
08:00 PM z64555: rue, why are you killing leds
08:00 PM rue_shop3: its nice to be able to drill holes square to the surface of a projet
08:00 PM rue_shop3: I been analizing failed leds
08:00 PM rue_shop3: ... your not reading my speeling right?
08:01 PM z64555: I'm reading your spelling, I am politely ignoring it
08:01 PM rue_shop3: fewh
08:01 PM z64555: as long as I can understand what it is you are trying to spell :P
08:01 PM rue_shop3: I'll post pics of the power supply I made up last night
08:01 PM z64555: cool
08:02 PM rue_shop3: if Id known the schematic for the chineese power supply kit I got, I'd have just made my own tho
08:02 PM rue_shop3: I finished the supply just to drive a nail in it, I'm gonna do another one (improved, so I may never finish it)
08:03 PM z64555: lol.
08:04 PM cnnx: how useful are 3d printers to create real robot parts?
08:04 PM rue_shop3: amazingly
08:04 PM branjb: define real robot
08:04 PM cnnx: something with 4 wheel
08:04 PM cnnx: rover
08:05 PM cnnx: outside
08:05 PM z64555: presumably, parts that don't break when you look at it wierd
08:05 PM rue_shop3: yesterday we made some light hangers for a curtin rail, gave up on the break-test at 17kg
08:05 PM orlock: I've got a pile of lightweight extrusion, not quite 2020 , that i want to do something with
08:05 PM rue_shop3: decided they were more than strong enough
08:05 PM z64555: what material? PLA? ...or whatever it is
08:06 PM rue_shop3: pla
08:06 PM orlock: cnnx: We use them here
08:06 PM rue_shop3: generally parts are comming out crazy strong at 30-40% fill
08:06 PM cnnx: orlock: for robots?
08:06 PM rue_shop3: or was it 20%
08:06 PM orlock: Yes
08:06 PM cnnx: orlock: plastic pieces?
08:06 PM rue_shop3: did you see arm10?
08:07 PM z64555: I've heard good things about PLA. ABS is a different animal
08:07 PM orlock: cnnx: yes
08:07 PM cnnx: orlock: what kind of parts for example?
08:07 PM rue_shop3: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm10/p1080879.jpg
08:07 PM branjb: PETG is great
08:07 PM cnnx: rue_shop3: nice model M keyboard
08:07 PM branjb: a lot more durable than PLA
08:07 PM rue_shop3: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm10/p1080874.jpg
08:07 PM cnnx: nice klein cutters too
08:07 PM cnnx: i have the same ones
08:07 PM rue_shop3: thanks, its missing a few caps
08:07 PM orlock: cnnx: Little widgets that are cheaper to print than machine?
08:08 PM rue_shop3: $60 grumble grumble
08:08 PM cnnx: i'm an electrican in my past life
08:08 PM cnnx: still have my full tool set
08:08 PM orlock: cnnx: We have some stupidly expensive printers here though
08:08 PM ferdna: can i make this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/433MHz-ASK-Transmit-Module-w-One-Spring-antenna-VCC-DATA-GND-/301309888429?hash=item46277807ad:g:3OYAAOSwzrxUzxfp
08:08 PM ferdna: transmit at 488
08:08 PM ferdna: as well?
08:08 PM rue_shop3: the OLDE knein pliers I had were SO much better than even the hardened new ones
08:08 PM rue_shop3: they got lost :(
08:09 PM cnnx: rue_shop3: use lubricant
08:09 PM rue_shop3: ?
08:09 PM cnnx: sometimes they get stuck
08:09 PM rue_shop3: these are all used enough to stay free
08:10 PM cnnx: i was looking for some linux or windows software to design all the components of my next robot, like a specialized CAD program for robotics, does that exist?
08:10 PM rue_shop3: ASK, .. ugh
08:10 PM rue_shop3: and do the modules have a max duty on the data line? cause that sucks
08:10 PM rue_shop3: cnnx, no
08:10 PM orlock: cnnx: i use OpenSCAD
08:10 PM cnnx: ok
08:10 PM cnnx: would be nice
08:10 PM rue_shop3: I use librecad and openscad
08:10 PM cnnx: with caclulators for dc motor and wheel sizes
08:10 PM cnnx: and shafts
08:10 PM cnnx: etc
08:11 PM z64555: cnnx: anything marketed for general machinery should do
08:11 PM orlock: cnnx: here, they use a whole pile of tools. - NX, Solidworks, Altium
08:11 PM z64555: Which, uh. is basically any CAD tool
08:11 PM cnnx: i've used freecad for woodworking parts
08:11 PM orlock: https://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/nx/
08:12 PM cnnx: i told alexa i was lonely earlier, she said music, a walk or calling a friend can help
08:12 PM cnnx: :)
08:12 PM cnnx: alexa is my amazon robot
08:13 PM z64555: I'd opt for a walk if you're in a neighborhood that doesn't require an armed escort
08:13 PM rue_shop3: all the 3d printed parts that I made my cnc with are holding up fine too
08:13 PM rue_shop3: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2108811
08:13 PM cnnx: i'm in a neighbourhood with low iq levels
08:13 PM rue_shop3: that would be a fine example of the method I use to design parts
08:13 PM cnnx: so i don't like to go out much
08:13 PM rue_shop3: so far everything is just stacked extrusions with the occasional hole punched thru it
08:13 PM z64555: which, uh, is basically the 90% of the world
08:13 PM orlock: cnnx: one of my toy robots used printed chassis and gears and motor mounts and they held up find
08:14 PM orlock: cnnx: the motors were a pair of cordless drill motors being driven at 14.8v, everything held up fine
08:14 PM cnnx: i finally found the dc motor with the specs i need today
08:14 PM cnnx: a company called servocity.com
08:14 PM cnnx: can handle a 50lbs payload
08:14 PM cnnx: 40$ each
08:15 PM cnnx: the stall toruqe is the torque X 2
08:15 PM cnnx: just to be safe
08:15 PM cnnx: so 50lbs should be no problem
08:15 PM orlock: but at what distance?
08:16 PM z64555: probably in foot-pounds
08:16 PM rue_shop3: I think he means side shaft load
08:16 PM cnnx: basically i went to robotshop.com's dc motor size tool
08:16 PM cnnx: got the specs for the load i need
08:16 PM cnnx: and matched them with their website motor
08:17 PM cnnx: i book marked it
08:17 PM cnnx: hang on
08:17 PM cnnx: https://www.servocity.com/165-rpm-hd-premium-planetary-gear-motor
08:17 PM cnnx: it says 680 oz-in
08:17 PM cnnx: thats the stall torque
08:17 PM cnnx: but for 50lbs load you need half of that
08:18 PM cnnx: you dont want to be anywhere close to the stall obviously
08:19 PM rue_shop3: cnnx, can you see how I designed that?
08:19 PM cnnx: designed what?
08:19 PM rue_shop3: <rue_shop3> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2108811
08:19 PM rue_shop3: <rue_shop3> that would be a fine example of the method I use to design parts
08:19 PM rue_shop3: <rue_shop3> that would be a fine example of the method I use to design parts
08:19 PM rue_shop3: <rue_shop3> that would be a fine example of the method I use to design parts
08:20 PM cnnx: cool
08:20 PM cnnx: fancy equipment
08:20 PM cnnx: excuse me
08:20 PM cnnx: i'm just an amateur
08:21 PM cnnx: with a computer and electrical background
08:21 PM rue_shop3: I'm a level 8 hardware hacker
08:21 PM cnnx: not sure what that is but I used to work for level(3) communications in 1999-2001
08:23 PM * rue_shop3 counters cnnx' level(3) communications with his level 9 software programmer skills
08:23 PM z64555: rue means he breaks stuff, fixes them, breaks them again, them build something entirely different
08:23 PM z64555: :D
08:23 PM rue_shop3: * for fun
08:23 PM * cnnx counters rue_shop3's level 9 with his federal goverment level II security clearance valid for 10 years :)
08:24 PM rue_shop3: I once diagnosed a 6502 stuck in a loop polling a flag in a timer chip with just a scope
08:24 PM cnnx: i bought a 6502 computer 2 years ago
08:24 PM cnnx: an apple //c
08:24 PM cnnx: and did some assembly on it
08:24 PM cnnx: was fun
08:24 PM * z64555 wonders how many printers are in a "lathe" configuration
08:24 PM rue_shop3: pff, I'v had my IIe for .... like 22 years now
08:25 PM cnnx: actually its a 65c02
08:25 PM orlock: rue_shop3: the holders single part, press fit?
08:25 PM rue_shop3: mine runs at a whopping 1.023Mhz and has a mouse!
08:25 PM rue_shop3: the bearing holder? yea
08:26 PM rue_shop3: push fit even
08:26 PM cnnx: i just baught it cause it was my first computer but got rid of it in the 1990s
08:26 PM cnnx: so i wanted one back again
08:26 PM orlock: https://www.servocity.com/aluminum-beams-bundle what the fuck is with that sizing
08:26 PM orlock: 1.54"
08:26 PM orlock: ?
08:26 PM orlock: 12.32" ?
08:26 PM orlock: and thats hole to hole
08:27 PM z64555: close to 40mm
08:27 PM rue_shop3: units 3.08inch mm
08:27 PM rue_shop3: * 78.232
08:27 PM rue_shop3: !?!? no idea
08:27 PM z64555: for 1.54"
08:27 PM rue_shop3: root@blackie2:/tmp# units 2.31inch mm
08:27 PM rue_shop3: * 58.674
08:27 PM rue_shop3: no, its not metric
08:27 PM rue_shop3: root@blackie2:/tmp# units 2.31inch lightyears
08:27 PM rue_shop3: * 6.2018467e-18
08:28 PM rue_shop3: its not based on lightyears
08:28 PM z64555: :|
08:28 PM cnnx: i can't buy any parts now cause i have no job :(
08:28 PM rue_shop3: root@blackie2:/tmp# units 2.31inch fathom
08:28 PM rue_shop3: * 0.032083333
08:28 PM rue_shop3: nope
08:28 PM cnnx: so i'm just gonna design
08:28 PM rue_shop3: units 2.31inch chains
08:28 PM rue_shop3: * 0.0029166667
08:28 PM rue_shop3: maybe its .003 chain
08:29 PM z64555: never heard of a "chain" as a unit of measure
08:29 PM cnnx: hows that gal's snail comming along?
08:29 PM rue_shop3: surveying
08:29 PM cnnx: forgot her name
08:29 PM z64555: ah
08:29 PM rue_shop3: I think anniepoo got annoyed at the gender refs and left...
08:29 PM z64555: cnxx: you mean anniepoo. Last I heard, she managed to fabricate the snail's shell
08:30 PM cnnx: rue_shop3: she didn't want to be reffered as a fem?
08:30 PM z64555: It's not that
08:30 PM z64555: It's just how one or two users acted
08:30 PM rue_shop3: well no, she just wants to be somone
08:30 PM cnnx: its too bad
08:30 PM cnnx: would have been fun to have her around
08:30 PM jandor: how goes it
08:31 PM z64555: it's going
08:31 PM z64555: and going
08:31 PM rue_shop3: its always nice to have SOME people around working on a project
08:31 PM z64555: and going. I just put in fresh batteries
08:31 PM rue_shop3: I have like 3 hours left to live
08:31 PM cnnx: i put a new battery in a new ear trimmer i baught this morning
08:31 PM rue_shop3: hmm
08:31 PM cnnx: made the old one look gross
08:31 PM cnnx: trew it out
08:31 PM z64555: what happens in 3 hours rue?
08:31 PM rue_shop3: I wonder if I should put the controller in the new robot arm
08:31 PM orlock: ear trimmer
08:32 PM orlock: or ear hair trimmer?
08:32 PM cnnx: ear hair
08:32 PM cnnx: ;p;
08:32 PM jandor: 3 hour? what?
08:32 PM cnnx: lol
08:32 PM rue_shop3: last night I finished a bench power supply, so I'm kinda progressed out
08:32 PM rue_shop3: in about 3 hours I vaporize
08:32 PM rue_shop3: for 5 days
08:32 PM jandor: what?
08:32 PM jandor: I don't get it
08:32 PM orlock: Jusr Duty?
08:32 PM orlock: Jury, even
08:33 PM rue_shop3: I dont exist for 5 of 7 days
08:33 PM z64555: he's going to be swamped at work
08:33 PM z64555: so he can't do any of the fun stuff
08:33 PM cnnx: why would I need a shaft coupler? to extend the shaft?
08:33 PM cnnx: and put a larger wheel hub?
08:33 PM z64555: to couple shafts. duh
08:34 PM z64555: Uh, less snarky remark to follow
08:34 PM cnnx: whats wrong with the shaft that comes with it
08:34 PM cnnx: why do you need to couple it to another
08:34 PM z64555: With a shaft coupler, you can make the fail point at the coupler rather instead of inside of the motor
08:34 PM cnnx: ok
08:34 PM cnnx: so it makes it stronger?
08:34 PM cnnx: but not necessary
08:35 PM z64555: doesn't make it stronger, makes it more survivable
08:35 PM z64555: it's just like a fuse, but for your mechanical bits
08:35 PM cnnx: okay
08:35 PM cnnx: that i understand
08:35 PM cnnx: if it fails it doesn't damage the source
08:35 PM z64555: provided that the coupler is weaker than the source
08:36 PM cnnx: oh well I learned something new
08:36 PM z64555: just like putting in a 10A fuse on a 5A source
08:36 PM cnnx: that won't protect it
08:36 PM z64555: yup
08:36 PM z64555: A coupler can also adapt different shafts
08:36 PM cnnx: convert sizes?
08:37 PM z64555: like a D shaft to a standard shaft
08:37 PM jandor: so
08:37 PM jandor: no more annie on this channel?
08:37 PM cnnx: but there's nothing stopping me from screwing a hub directly to a motor shaft's 6mm shaft and then the wheel to the hub right?
08:37 PM z64555: cnnx: go right ahead
08:38 PM cnnx: sarcasm?
08:38 PM z64555: none
08:38 PM cnnx: ok
08:38 PM cnnx: brb
08:39 PM cnnx: had some kids trying to spam me with links
08:39 PM cnnx: was amusing
08:44 PM cnnx: what you guys think of this?
08:44 PM cnnx: https://www.amazon.com/Shepherd-Hardware-9610-Semi-Pneumatic-Replacement/dp/B000N6BR3A
08:44 PM cnnx: not expensive
08:44 PM cnnx: but its semi-pneumatic
08:44 PM cnnx: is it good for grass?
08:44 PM cnnx: and carry a solar panel /deep cycle battery
08:45 PM orlock: that wheel's probably not made to be driven
08:45 PM orlock: not saying you cannot
08:45 PM cnnx: its 6 inch
08:45 PM cnnx: what do you mean driven
08:46 PM cnnx: i put a 6mm motor shaft into it
08:46 PM cnnx: 1/2" = 6mm
08:46 PM cnnx: oh wait
08:46 PM cnnx: there's no hub mount holes
08:46 PM cnnx: something is wrong
08:47 PM cnnx: https://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.aspx/atr-wheel-shaft-set-pair-6mm-bore-6-inch-pneumatic/1991/
08:47 PM cnnx: this is better
08:48 PM Guest21377 is now known as CrazEd
08:49 PM CrazEd is now known as Guest6677
09:47 PM _Axis_ is now known as OS-18597
09:49 PM Guest6677 is now known as CrazEd
09:50 PM CrazEd is now known as Guest56448
10:00 PM * z64555 looks at specs for a filament extruder
10:02 PM OS-18597 is now known as _axis_
10:11 PM z64555: hm, ok. It uses a "band heater" for the heat source, a brass "water tap extension" to transfer heat from the heater to the barrel. and the barrel is capped off with the extruder nozzle and a wire filter
10:14 PM z64555: oh, the faucet/water tap extension is the barrel
10:17 PM z64555: no, that's two different things -_-
10:27 PM cnnx: hi
10:27 PM cnnx: i found my morningstar solar charge controller in a box in the basement!
10:27 PM cnnx: woohoo
10:27 PM cnnx: its worth 200$
10:27 PM cnnx: i love that thing
10:27 PM cnnx: even found my p3 watt monitor
10:50 PM Guest56448 is now known as CrazEd
10:51 PM CrazEd is now known as Guest5653
11:16 PM rue_bed: well, what a day
11:16 PM rue_bed: lots of progress this weekend
11:17 PM rue_bed: made a new bench power supply, planted plants, cleaned yard stuff
11:17 PM rue_bed: helped people with projects
11:18 PM rue_bed: I think 4am is the record for staying up for the year
11:18 PM rue_bed: last year was like somewhere between 6am and 7am
11:18 PM gottaname|wurk: bench power supply?
11:18 PM rue_bed: yea
11:18 PM gottaname|wurk: I am curious on how to make one
11:18 PM rue_bed: I'll do images later
11:18 PM gottaname|wurk: without killing myself.
11:18 PM gottaname|wurk: :3
11:18 PM rue_bed: well, dont buy the chineese board like i did
11:19 PM rue_bed: its got all kinds of design problems
11:19 PM rue_bed: it works, but
11:19 PM z64555: step down transformer -> rectifier -> big-ass capacitor
11:19 PM z64555: there, you've got a power supply
11:19 PM rue_bed: cant put 44V across a chip with an abs max rating of 36 and have it live long
11:20 PM gottaname|wurk: how about using the old method of turning a computer power supply into one?
11:20 PM rue_bed: the main transistor died that it came with, no knwn reason
11:20 PM gottaname|wurk: 5v, 12v rails
11:20 PM z64555: you'd think "absolute max" would mean "absolute max" :P
11:20 PM rue_bed: the one I made is variable
11:20 PM rue_bed: 0-22V 0-4.25A
11:21 PM z64555: switched-mode power supply, right?
11:23 PM rue_bed: nope
11:23 PM rue_bed: its linear
11:23 PM z64555: ogod
11:23 PM rue_bed: I have a switched mode one in the works
11:23 PM rue_bed: 250Khz
11:24 PM rue_bed: having issues with the filter design tho
11:24 PM z64555: hows that"
11:24 PM z64555: ?
11:25 PM rue_bed: horrid output
11:25 PM z64555: what's the waveform look like?
11:25 PM rue_bed: you would think filtering 250Khz is easy
11:25 PM rue_bed: its gt all sorts of resonants in it
11:26 PM z64555: hmmm. and this is on the linear regulator?
11:26 PM rue_bed: no the filter for the 250khz pwm regulator
11:26 PM rue_bed: the linear one just works, lots of heat
11:27 PM z64555: well, yeah.
11:27 PM rue_bed: well, lots of watts, I used a cpu heatsink/fan on the linear one
11:27 PM z64555: got all the lines short as you can manage?
11:28 PM z64555: might have to put in a few chokes
11:28 PM rue_bed: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/newpower/
11:28 PM z64555: jan2016 is the newest?
11:28 PM rue_bed: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/newpower/p1070742.jpg
11:29 PM z64555: yeah, that's the one I'm looking at
11:29 PM rue_bed: I'v had some life detours
11:29 PM * z64555 nods in understanding
11:30 PM rue_bed: like that arm10
11:30 PM rue_bed: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/newpower/Interface.png
11:30 PM rue_bed: a two channel usb controllable power supply excites me tho
11:31 PM rue_bed: I did it as a serial device that presents a terminal that isn't statefull, so a program can operate it
11:32 PM rue_bed: "Bench power, 2 channel, 30V 5A
11:32 PM rue_bed: "
11:33 PM rue_bed: the origional idea was to just use adjustable dc-dc cnverters form china, but they do the current regulation on the - rail, so if you cross the two ouputs, they cant do current regulation and blow up
11:34 PM z64555: lovely
11:34 PM rue_bed: which is what happened at 2am when I was done wiring it up and decided to do a short-circuit test
11:34 PM rue_bed: I got the -'s crossed on the internal wiring
11:34 PM z64555: What's with the tripple NOT gate going into pins 2 and 12 of the 4093?
11:35 PM rue_bed: which dig?
11:35 PM z64555: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/newpower/p1070742.jpg
11:35 PM z64555: over on the right-hand side
11:35 PM rue_bed: oh delay
11:35 PM rue_bed: you need a tiny delay in that signal to make up for the flipflop delay
11:36 PM z64555: hm, so that also explains the "250ns"
11:36 PM rue_bed: this is an old diaagram....
11:36 PM z64555: ok
11:36 PM rue_bed: I switched it out for a 4060
11:36 PM rue_bed: with a crystal on it
11:37 PM rue_bed: and got 250Khz on the button
11:37 PM rue_bed: without the delay there were tiny glitches
11:37 PM z64555: race conditions?
11:37 PM rue_bed: yea
11:37 PM z64555: hm.
11:38 PM rue_bed: the two signals would couse a double-bounce and something-something
11:38 PM rue_bed: the origional proto was on a breadboard, and with all the stray capacitance I'd been fine
11:38 PM rue_bed: when I built it there were all kinds of issues
11:39 PM rue_bed: the 4060 simplified things a lot
11:39 PM rue_bed: 1 or 2Mhz crystal...
11:40 PM rue_bed: of course, thats just the output amp, the regulator is all back from that
11:40 PM z64555: I'm not seeing anything on the circuit that might cause a resonance, sadly
11:40 PM rue_bed: I did the regulation in analog, with a dac feeding the error amp
11:40 PM rue_bed: thats not the power stage
11:41 PM rue_bed: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/newpower/p1070572.jpg
11:41 PM rue_bed: I learned that big fets are a bad idea when trying to do fast swtiching
11:41 PM rue_bed: I actually found a P channel fet that didn't have a stupidly high gate capacitance
11:42 PM z64555: don't they usually use mosfets?
11:42 PM rue_bed: the reason for splitting it into 2 channels was so that the drive on each fet would be under 50%, so I could do the voltage offset with a series capacitor
11:43 PM rue_bed: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/newpower/p1070122.jpg
11:43 PM rue_bed: I'v had lots of design battles during the project
11:48 PM rue_bed: my regulator board is seperate from the output amp, so I can put a linear stage on it if I give up on the swtiching
11:49 PM z64555: gotcha
11:51 PM Guest5653 is now known as CrazEd
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11:53 PM z64555: hmm. How are those inductors wound?
11:53 PM rue_bed: thru the middle :)
11:54 PM rue_bed: it was a long time ago
11:54 PM z64555: I mean do they have a toroid core, air core?
11:54 PM rue_bed: Its not litz iirc
11:54 PM rue_bed: oh, toroids
11:54 PM rue_bed: ungapped
11:54 PM z64555: ok, so the eleminates those
11:55 PM z64555: *that
11:55 PM rue_bed: I'll pull it all out again sometime prolly soon
11:58 PM z64555: Maybe try placing some caps on the signal wires to prevent DC on them. You mentioned that the stray capacitance on the breadboard was the probable reason for it working so well
11:59 PM z64555: the uh, signals to the FET's. should probably also double check their biasing