#robotics Logs

Apr 12 2017

01:31 AM anniepoo: starting the cuts
02:25 AM Guest57405 is now known as CrazEd
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04:13 AM anniepoo: 8cD almost done cutting snail shell layers
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08:56 AM rue_bed: new ones?
09:03 AM Snert: anniepoo do you think your snail has use for handicapper grade and middle schoolers?
09:03 AM Snert: or is it meant more for littler kids?
09:08 AM Snert: oh well, I'll catch her later.
01:15 PM anniepoo: Snert - it's most useful for K3 students
01:16 PM anniepoo: although this is one of the questions we want to answer
01:20 PM anniepoo: The education people I've consulted have said after 3rd grade or so kids won't feel like itg's 'grown up'
01:21 PM anniepoo: now, if there's one snail for the room, as a sort of performer, that may be different
01:25 PM Snert_: well, I'm gonna say this strait out.
01:26 PM Snert_: I'm talking about the 14yo. droolers in a wheelchair that can't tie their shoes and never will tie their shoes.
01:27 PM Snert_: possibly lower ages depending on the particular handicap.
01:29 PM Snert_: and any little bit of hand-eye co-ordination practice. The teachers like games cuz it helps with the hand eye stuff.
01:30 PM Snert_: but I'm not a teacher so I guess I can't really vouch for what they might think is valuable.
01:31 PM Snert_: when I look at the $ spent on Don Johnson input devices and such it seems like a good niche market.
01:33 PM Snert_: http://donjohnston.com/don-johnston-products/
01:34 PM Snert_: autism and dyslexia kinda seem like prime candidates for a device of some sort.
01:36 PM veverak: so
01:36 PM veverak: astar was still too slow
01:36 PM veverak: thought about it
01:36 PM veverak: "do I need perfectly optimal solution? nope"
01:36 PM veverak: "do I appreciate massive performance boost? hell yeah"
01:37 PM veverak: fu it, let's just multiply astar heuristic by 2* and enjoy 5x speed boost
01:38 PM jandor_: hello
01:40 PM Snert_: anniepoo: for instance.... http://donjohnston.com/step-by-step-with-levels-by-ablenet/
01:49 PM anniepoo: yes, this kind of interaction
01:50 PM anniepoo: building social skills is a big application area
03:03 PM anniepoo: veverak, if you do that you may not be fullfilling the conditions of admissability
03:03 PM anniepoo: so you may lose fastest path in some circumstances
03:04 PM veverak: I know
03:04 PM veverak: "do I need perfectly optimal solution? nope"
03:05 PM anniepoo: ok
03:06 PM anniepoo: Snert - yes, low functioning autistic students are a prime target
03:07 PM anniepoo: The ideal teacher for a severely autistic child would be somebody who could repeat the same action for several hours with exactly the same facial expression
03:07 PM anniepoo: while being pummeled
03:08 PM anniepoo: DDD - dull, dirty, dangerous
03:09 PM anniepoo: sometimes add difficult
03:52 PM Snert_: 2 big buttons. red and green. kid punds red button...snail dances and sends text to caretaker.
03:53 PM Snert_: yes, there's the violent ones at times. But I mean the ones that can't be violent because they're just too fucked up.
03:53 PM beanbag-: BMCC
04:04 PM Snert_: anniepoo: at least you have awareness of a possible niche market. Don Johnston prices just appal me.
04:06 PM anniepoo: me too
04:07 PM anniepoo: over the years I've run into various people with disabilities and made adaptive aids for them
04:07 PM anniepoo: the commercial stuff's always obscenely expensive
04:08 PM anniepoo: even thought about marketing myself that way - just making things one off
04:08 PM anniepoo: but to get compensated have to buy into the paperwork nightmare
04:12 PM Snert_: it's a gravy train though.
04:12 PM Snert_: but I understand.
04:13 PM anniepoo: sure
04:13 PM anniepoo: you know, I've never been interested in security as a field within CS
04:14 PM anniepoo: it always seemed boring and kind of negative - of course I know what I need to know, but it never was 'my thing'
04:15 PM anniepoo: but now I'm watching some machine learning stuff, and this morning watched a video on password cracking
04:15 PM anniepoo: 8c/ if I wanted to be unethical, there's tons of ways to make money
04:16 PM anniepoo: anyway, kid pounds red button, snail dances - whats the purpose here?
04:22 PM SpeedEvil: ##philosophy
04:57 PM Snert_: anniepoo: sometimes there's a glimmer of intelligence there but it's all locked up. Angry, pound the blue button.
04:58 PM Snert_: happy.....green button.
04:58 PM Snert_: the snail dancing and possibly lighting up provids the feedback/entertainment for the kid.
04:59 PM Snert_: a text to the caretaker would be a setup option that may or may not be wantd/used.
05:00 PM Snert_: I dunno, just brainstorming
05:03 PM anniepoo: back
05:03 PM anniepoo: ah, I see
05:03 PM anniepoo: yep, good idea
05:04 PM Snert_: the kid can be trained to hit the button for potty time or whatever.
05:04 PM anniepoo: I wonder how many buttons before it's overwhelming
05:04 PM anniepoo: many higher functioning autistic people can communicate by using a keyboard
05:05 PM anniepoo: often with an adapter - a plastic gizmo with a hole for each key to make it easier to hit key with poor motor control
05:06 PM anniepoo: you know, I hadn't thought of this
05:06 PM Snert_: those would be the high functioning ones, as you say.
05:06 PM Snert_: but for the really lower ones maybe 3 4" round buttons.
05:06 PM anniepoo: but what if we let the autistic user be center of control of the robot
05:07 PM anniepoo: I wonder if they'd use the robot to communicate
05:07 PM Snert_: maybe the kid could handle it, yes.
05:07 PM anniepoo: right - depends on the user's functional abilities
05:08 PM Snert_: speech module - $229.95
05:08 PM anniepoo: I'm planning on controlling the robot wth high level commands - 'do the numbers song'
05:08 PM anniepoo: and then the robot does that routine
05:09 PM anniepoo: using one of those 'air mouse' things
05:09 PM Snert_: basic snail that dances and lights up - rugged as hell. $399.95
05:09 PM Snert_: market survey and research...but the price range is there I beleive.
05:09 PM anniepoo: yah, one reason to build the snail is to gather a body of praxis around constructing ruggedized robots for child contact service
05:11 PM Snert_: go on shark tank lol
05:11 PM anniepoo: we're a long way from worrying about corporate stuff
05:12 PM anniepoo: jandor was interested in the snail project, I shared my design docs with him/her
05:12 PM anniepoo: s/he liked the sections on child survivable designs
05:13 PM Snert_: an ipad that responds to buttons is one form of entertainment. Tactile feedback or motion, or a solid object to draw their attention might be seen as a different desirable form of the same thing.
05:13 PM Snert_: I dunno what these spec ed teachers value, I admit.
05:14 PM anniepoo: rather than a game jam, it'd be neat to just get a bunch of autistic people, spec ed teachers, and engineers in a room with machinery
05:14 PM anniepoo: and have a sort of hackathon
05:16 PM anniepoo: wonder if a kinect would be a useful tool
05:16 PM Snert_: it needs to be dead simple for the teacher to setup and use. Teachers and para educators may or may not be into the technology.
05:17 PM Snert_: they look for ways to "reach" the kid.
05:18 PM anniepoo: right
05:18 PM SpeedEvil: Maybe one of those sticks with a magnet on the end?
05:18 PM anniepoo: I've worked in ed tech, seen that over and over
05:18 PM anniepoo: stick with magnet on end?
05:19 PM SpeedEvil: 'reach' - nvm.
05:19 PM Snert_: yea.
05:19 PM SpeedEvil: Sorry - just wishing there was assistive stuff that'd easily work for me.
05:19 PM Snert_: the kids can't communicate. can't say that they are happy or sad.
05:19 PM Snert_: or hungry.
05:19 PM Snert_: or gotta pee.
05:20 PM anniepoo: Speed, what do you mean?
05:20 PM anniepoo: yah, Snert - just feel like there's a place for close collaboration there
05:22 PM SpeedEvil: anniepoo: Exhausted nearly all the time, and needing cognitive /physical performance monitoring so I don't overdo stuff with future consequences.
05:23 PM anniepoo: wow-
05:26 PM anniepoo: can you say more about that?
05:27 PM anniepoo: if you're willing to
05:27 PM anniepoo: I mean, you have an audience here of people who can make things
05:27 PM anniepoo: if there's something that could help, maybe we can think it up
05:29 PM SpeedEvil: Chronic fatigue syndrome. Trivial exercise is dangerously exhausting to the point that (for example) making a bacon omelette the next day may be impossibly hard.
05:29 PM SpeedEvil: And it varies, so I never know how much is too much.
05:30 PM anniepoo: ah
05:34 PM anniepoo: is there some physiological correlate you could measure?
05:35 PM SpeedEvil: Most of the nice ones are ridiculous.
05:35 PM SpeedEvil: As in require $1M labs.
05:36 PM SpeedEvil: The research into simple measures is unfortunately limited.
05:36 PM anniepoo: I'm thinking things like heart rate, metabolic energy expenditure, etc.
05:37 PM SpeedEvil: HRV seems plausible.
05:37 PM SpeedEvil: I've yet to find a nice sensor for this though.
05:37 PM SpeedEvil: I have one on my wrist which can almost certainly do it cheaply and well.
05:37 PM anniepoo: HRV?
05:37 PM SpeedEvil: But tehre is no way to export the data.
05:38 PM SpeedEvil: Heart rate variability
05:38 PM anniepoo: heck, we can cobble together a thing that'll measure your heart rate and export it
05:39 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MUDU6BU - the fitbit is similar, but bins the data inappropriately and is as such useless.
05:39 PM anniepoo: right, you want timing for individual beats
05:40 PM SpeedEvil: Ideally, yes. Somewhat longer timescales may work, but fitbit IIRC bins for 5 min, which is useless.
05:41 PM anniepoo: well, whatever they've got for a sensor in there
05:42 PM SpeedEvil: Indeed. I just find it frustrating that the device is there, with almost suitable firmware.
05:45 PM anniepoo: I'm looking around, trying to find out what the actual sensor is
05:48 PM anniepoo: https://www.amazon.com/Pulse-Sensor-PulseSensor-864620000204/dp/B01CPP4QM0/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1492035461&sr=8-8&keywords=heart+rate+sensor
05:49 PM anniepoo: https://pulsesensor.com/pages/hrv-poincare-plot
05:50 PM SpeedEvil: yes, I have one of those to play with
05:53 PM anniepoo: so you should be able to cobble up what you need
07:19 PM Snert_: how about a case where a poor student gets sexually abused. How could they communicate that to the caretaker
07:19 PM Snert_: or nursing home resident.
07:19 PM anniepoo: 8c(
07:20 PM Snert_: I dunno how your snail might play into that but there's bound to be a way.
07:20 PM anniepoo: hmm
07:21 PM Snert_: might just be a camera for "who done it".
07:22 PM Snert_: a board game where the snail trucks around the board.
07:23 PM Snert_: meds timer.
07:24 PM Snert_: hooking into a meds schedule sounds good.
07:25 PM anniepoo: well, assaulting the snail's actually probably a good outcome. The snail's not hurt, and staff gets flagged.
07:47 PM Snert_: a whole lot of this is prolly already covered with phone apps I bet.
07:55 PM Snert_: welp, I'm out of ideas. If ya get rich, gimme a grand or something....lol...I could maybe come up with a spec. ed. person or purchasing agent saying how much we've spent on Don Johnston stuff.
07:57 PM Snert_: but I'm a network hack with not a whole lot of arduino skill. Scope and voltmeter stuff is what I do.