#robotics Logs
Mar 30 2017
#robotics Calendar
12:22 AM Snert: pretty cute! :)
12:44 AM Atomsk is now known as ace4016
05:17 AM Ahti_ is now known as Ahti
06:04 AM Braxenhielm: :o
06:04 AM Braxenhielm: are you all robot programmers?
06:08 AM malcom2073: Yes.
06:09 AM Braxenhielm: wow
06:10 AM Braxenhielm: i make programs on ABB robots
06:10 AM Braxenhielm: well... on a wery n00bie level
06:11 AM Braxenhielm: but its fun
06:13 AM Braxenhielm: would like to learn PLC too
06:14 AM Braxenhielm: trying to find a linux way to read the PLC's at work.. maybe scada or something
06:35 AM pokmo: should servos be able to turn as much as they can electronically as they can mechanically?
06:35 AM pokmo: for some reason, mine can turn by 190 degs mechanically, but just 120 degs electronically
06:36 AM Braxenhielm: strange.. what kind of servo?
06:37 AM Braxenhielm: 120 -190 is qite a large diffrence
06:38 AM deshipu: pokmo: do you have a limit on the pulse width you are sending?
06:38 AM deshipu: pokmo: in your program, I mean
06:39 AM deshipu: perhaps that servo accepts a range of pulse width that is outside of your limit
06:39 AM pokmo: Braxenhielm, it's a ES08A https://www.emaxmodel.com/es08a-ii.html
06:39 AM pokmo: it's fairly cheap. but still
06:40 AM Braxenhielm: ok.. sorry never seen that model
06:40 AM pokmo: deshipu, i'm using arduino code liks this https://dpaste.de/Ltwu
06:41 AM pokmo: i've tried leaving out the min and max pulse widths, i.e. using defaults
06:41 AM pokmo: same behaviour
06:41 AM pokmo: i believe the defaults are 544 and 2400
06:41 AM Braxenhielm: maybe a built in limit?
06:43 AM deshipu: pokmo: try 100 and 3000
06:43 AM deshipu: and see how that works
06:43 AM pokmo: hmm ok
06:43 AM deshipu: pokmo: also, it's better to use write_microseconds() and not write9)
06:44 AM deshipu: pokmo: you get better precision and more control that way
06:45 AM pokmo: yeah i've thought about that
06:45 AM pokmo: but looking at https://github.com/arduino-libraries/Servo/blob/master/src/avr/Servo.cpp#L272 the value to write() just gets converted microseconds
06:46 AM pokmo: well, only if the value is < MIN_PULSE_WIDTH
06:46 AM pokmo: which is 544
06:46 AM pokmo: so an angle 0-360 should get converted
06:47 AM pokmo: maybe i'm missing something
06:47 AM pokmo: an angle 0-180 rather
06:48 AM deshipu: well, if your min and max are 1500 and 1900
06:48 AM deshipu: then 0° maps to 1500 and 180° maps to 1900
06:50 AM pokmo: yeah, i was just messing with the min and max values by trial and error
06:50 AM pokmo: the defaults just didn't work
06:50 AM pokmo: the stupid arduino IDE really doesn't like mac's USB...
06:51 AM deshipu: wait, are you powering the servo from usb?
06:51 AM pokmo: deshipu, no, i have a separate supply giving it 5V
06:54 AM deshipu: most servos have their center at 1500us
06:54 AM deshipu: and the limits symmetrically on both sides of it
06:55 AM pokmo: i think i sort of know what the issue is
06:55 AM pokmo: it doesn't like the min
06:55 AM pokmo: the min is probably too low for the servo
06:55 AM pokmo: deshipu, the spec says "counter clockwise / pulse traveling 1500 to 1900us"
06:55 AM pokmo: https://www.emaxmodel.com/es08a-ii.html
06:58 AM pokmo: if my understanding is correct, if the defaults weren't overwritten, i.e. .attach(9), then .write(180) is essentially .writeMicroseconds(2400)
06:58 AM pokmo: but 2400 should be outside of the normal range
07:06 AM deshipu: just experiment what range your servo can actually physically handle
07:06 AM pokmo: now i've tried pretty ridiculous limits, like min = 0 max = 8000, but it still just gives 120 degs
07:06 AM deshipu: if 1500-1900 is ccw, then 1100-1500 should be cw
07:06 AM deshipu: so the range is 1100-1900
07:07 AM pokmo: deshipu, yeah. but if i were to use limits 0-8000, it should give the full angle of motion, right
07:07 AM pokmo: just that it'd pause before switching direction
07:09 AM deshipu: no
07:09 AM deshipu: if you go outside the mechanical limits, you can damage the servo
07:35 AM pokmo: hmm
07:45 AM pokmo: deshipu, looks like my servo's actual working range is 800 - 2300us for some reason
07:46 AM pokmo: but still, it gives just 120 degs
07:49 AM deshipu: probably the pot only has so much of its track
07:52 AM robotustra: if you need more than 180 degree it's better to put 360 degree encoder
07:53 AM deshipu: or two servos one on top of the other :P
07:53 AM deshipu: fed with the same signal
07:53 AM deshipu: you also get double the speed
07:54 AM robotustra: and two more chances that the whole mechanism will break
07:56 AM SpeedEvil: Add redundancy
07:56 AM SpeedEvil: three servos in series
07:57 AM robotustra: pokmo: here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2jpnyKPH64
07:58 AM robotustra: all about servo
08:07 AM deshipu: that accent...
08:09 AM robotustra: force you to recollect WW2?
08:09 AM robotustra: hande hoch
08:10 AM robotustra: accent is accent, but info is useful
08:11 AM robotustra: I don't care about accent any more because everyone in here has an accent
08:12 AM deshipu: it's distracting
08:12 AM deshipu: not that I don't have a heavy accent myself
08:13 AM robotustra: I have heavy russian accent and proud of it
08:14 AM Braxenhielm: we dont have an accent in sweden
08:14 AM Braxenhielm: :p
08:14 AM Braxenhielm: kidding.. swenglish is the most embarrasing
08:16 AM Braxenhielm: i can hear it when i try to speak english.. we have troble pronouncing th
08:17 AM robotustra: yep
08:17 AM Braxenhielm: it get tree or free.. never three
08:18 AM robotustra: the same issue with brasilian guys
08:18 AM Braxenhielm: ok :o
08:18 AM robotustra: they don't prononse good th
08:19 AM Braxenhielm: its time for me to visit my orange robot friends now
09:05 AM robotustra: interesting technique for flexible boards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwwA1d2s2OQ
09:09 AM deshipu: I vill rule ze vorld!
09:12 AM robotustra: u vill
09:14 AM robotustra: interesting way of doing PCB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNh0ubRcTYU
09:14 AM deshipu: robotustra: interesting technique, but I would prefer kapton tape to photo paper
09:17 AM deshipu: robotustra: hey, do you have any idea what a part marked 2AШ could be?
09:17 AM deshipu: or TEШ
09:17 AM deshipu: 6 pins
09:20 AM robotustra: no idea
09:20 AM robotustra: do you have a picture?
09:21 AM deshipu: no, I just saw someone asking that and got curious myself
09:21 AM deshipu: I can ask for a pic
09:22 AM robotustra: https://newauction.com.ua/offer/transformator_tv_2_ash-i6517348410.html
09:22 AM robotustra: may be a transformer
09:24 AM deshipu: that would be too obvious
09:24 AM deshipu: anyways, I thought it could be something common
09:24 AM deshipu: thank you
10:35 AM goppo: i'm trying to turn a shaft by 360 degs with reasonable precision with a servo that turns just 180 degs. would it be a good idea to mount a 32T on the servo and mesh it with a 16T?
10:35 AM goppo: but the precision would be fairly low, right?
10:36 AM goppo: angular precision
10:39 AM Snert: a 2:1 gear ratio would fit the scenario. What is the shaft connected to?
10:45 AM goppo: Snert, it's connected to a wheel with a pen attached to it
10:45 AM goppo: i wonder if i could achieve at least 1 deg accuracy
10:46 AM Snert: you'd need some sort of encoder to know what position it's at.
10:47 AM Snert: a hobby servo does not know where it is. It only knows that it's not at final position so therefore move to get there.
10:47 AM goppo: Snert, yeah, i'm just drying to drive the pen with the servo
10:47 AM goppo: *trying
10:47 AM Snert: assuming cheapo hobby servos.
10:47 AM goppo: yeah, cheapo
10:48 AM goppo: do gears with more teeth give better precision?
10:48 AM goppo: e.g., 32:16 vs 64:32?
10:48 AM goppo: or 16:8
10:51 AM SpeedEvil: It's complex.
10:51 AM SpeedEvil: Maybe. All else being equal, yes.
10:51 AM SpeedEvil: As 1/10th of a tooth slop is less.
10:51 AM SpeedEvil: But all else is rarely equal
10:51 AM goppo: right
10:56 AM robopal: maybe it is better to convert your servo for continuous rotation?
10:58 AM Snert: or spend more and get a servo that can report position to a controller like an arduino.
11:11 AM goppo: robopal, but you'll lose control of the angle then, right?
11:12 AM goppo: Snert, i've got quite a few of these cheapo servos, so i thought i'd just give them a try
11:15 AM robopal: you will need to add an encoder anyway in this senario I believe
12:15 PM ASRock_pc is now known as Tom_work
01:47 PM mrdata: did someone say tentacle?
01:47 PM mrdata: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/robotic-octopus-tentacle-festo
03:01 PM robotustra: rue_house: what does your new arm suppose to do?
03:02 PM robotustra: rue_house: I mean arm9
03:02 PM deshipu: they do something?
03:04 PM robotustra: not sure, looks like rue didn't finish it yet
05:00 PM anniepoo: I want TEW to be Festo some day
05:00 PM anniepoo: 8cD
05:06 PM robotustra: what is TEW?
05:11 PM anonnumberanon: robotustra, it is ARM-10
05:28 PM anniepoo: The Elgin Works
05:28 PM anniepoo: http://www.theelginworks.com
05:28 PM anniepoo: 8cD <-- half of it is me
05:37 PM Rez is now known as LoRez
05:49 PM ace4016: social robots
05:51 PM anniepoo: 8cD
05:52 PM Tom_L: 9qP
05:52 PM anonnumberanon: wow im banned from programming how to get back in
05:52 PM * anniepoo is working on a robotic snail - though she's been slacking recently
05:52 PM Tom_L: anonnumberanon, how did you do that?
05:52 PM Tom_L: pm somebody
05:52 PM anonnumberanon: I have no idea Tom_L .
05:53 PM anonnumberanon: how to list users in a channel, especially mods?
05:53 PM Tom_L: don't know that you can
05:53 PM Tom_L: you can list channels but i'm not sure about users
05:57 PM Tom_L: Tom_L: Have them ask in ##programming-ops probably
06:00 PM zhanx: Sterling is the op there
06:04 PM ace4016: are you banned or just not registered and they require you be registered?
06:04 PM ace4016: (and logged in)
06:05 PM Tom_L: they require registering
06:05 PM zhanx: i am not logged in and i got in fine
06:08 PM ace4016: you're totally logged in :P
06:08 PM ace4016: though most channels just prevent you from speaking when not logged in
06:12 PM zhanx: yea i logged after i said that, for the reason you mentioned for another channel
06:21 PM anonnumberanon: ace4016, I am "already logged in"
06:24 PM ace4016: hrm
06:24 PM Tom_L: take it up with the management then
06:27 PM robotustra: anniepoo: what is social robot?
06:28 PM anniepoo: a social robot is a robot whose purpose is to interact with humans
06:29 PM anniepoo: so a tickle me Elmo or Furby, or a Paro (seal like plushie robot used to interact with elderly people) and
06:30 PM anniepoo: often aspects of other robots - eg the face on a Baxter, are social robots
06:31 PM anniepoo: often even the most 'industrial' robots can benefit from some social features
06:31 PM anniepoo: eg a hospital delivery bot might need to understand how to interact with humanss crossing it's path so
06:32 PM robotustra: anniepoo: are programmers of robots humans too?
06:32 PM anniepoo: as not to scare the human, and negotiate moving around them
06:32 PM anniepoo: yes
06:32 PM anniepoo: that's a weird question
06:32 PM robotustra: so we can count that all robots are social?
06:33 PM anniepoo: uninteresting
06:34 PM robotustra: as soon as I understand - social robot is the robot which pretends to interact with humans human way
06:35 PM robotustra: as for me - it's very weak deviding of all robots into industrial and social
06:35 PM anniepoo: not necessarily, but often. It's a robot that interacts with a human in a way that's natural for the human
06:35 PM anniepoo: it's a weak division
06:36 PM robotustra: are sex robot dolls social robots?
06:36 PM anniepoo: of course
06:36 PM robotustra: are Rumba social robot?
06:36 PM anniepoo: they have social aspects
06:37 PM anniepoo: eg they call for help if they get stuck
06:37 PM anniepoo: so 'social robotics' (the field of study) is a better concept than 'social robot'
06:37 PM anniepoo: every social robot has some purpose.
06:37 PM robotustra: can I consider that if I can't input G-code into the robot directly - I will consider this robot social?
06:38 PM anniepoo: you can do what you want
06:38 PM * robotustra If you robot does not scare your neibours - let's think that it's social robot
06:39 PM robotustra: I would devide all robots on "social" and "asocial"
06:39 PM anniepoo: that's not a terrible definition - though in some sense Rue's giant mecha's a social robot whose purpose is to scare the neighbors
06:39 PM anniepoo: certainly Rue's not building it primarily to lift stuff
06:40 PM robotustra: http://i.imgur.com/xZEKXIT.png is this robot social?
06:40 PM anniepoo: and the primary purpose of a Roomba's to vacuum the floor, not to be entertaining
06:40 PM robotustra: ok
06:40 PM robotustra: key word
06:40 PM robotustra: entertaining
06:40 PM anniepoo: it has some social features
06:41 PM robotustra: namely:
06:41 PM anniepoo: not necc. I worked on a robot whose primary purpose was therapeutic
06:41 PM anonnumberanon: robotustra, this is not a robot this is a drawing ^_^
06:41 PM robotustra: anonnumberanon: it's a project
06:41 PM robotustra: of robot
06:41 PM anniepoo: and such ontolological distinctions are boring
06:42 PM robotustra: anniepoo: why are you interested in social robots?
06:42 PM anniepoo: it's a png file that contains a 3D graphic rendering of a design for a robot 8cD
06:42 PM anniepoo: because I'm interested in making people's lives better with technology,
06:42 PM anniepoo: and how technology interacts with people
06:42 PM anonnumberanon: it's a sequence of positive and negative buffers that......
06:43 PM robotustra: this is not a png picture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om_hhY21Tbg
06:44 PM anniepoo: it's firings of neurons in my brain because of ....
06:44 PM robotustra: anniepoo: you think that human like interaction with robot bring a lot of technology?
06:44 PM * anniepoo attaches a giant suction cup to robotrustra
06:45 PM anniepoo: I dunno, honestly - I'm more interested in real things
06:45 PM robotustra: yeah, me too
06:45 PM robotustra: real thing - it's when rbot does house cleaning without any command
06:45 PM robotustra: SILENTLY SEEMLESSLY
06:45 PM anniepoo: so who cares about these hair splitting definitional questions?
06:46 PM anniepoo: it's a real thing when it needs a bit of help too
06:46 PM anniepoo: I used to live with a guy with back issues who was very grateful he had a scooba and a roomba and could avoid two household tasks that were difficult for him
06:46 PM robotustra: anniepoo: are you sure social robot is what human really need to be happier?
06:47 PM anniepoo: nope
06:47 PM robotustra: I think so too
06:47 PM robotustra: I would like to have robot which does real things, which consume a lot of my time
06:48 PM robotustra: like cleaning, washing, not plaing guitar or dancing
06:48 PM anniepoo: do you have a dishwasher?
06:48 PM robotustra: drive me to my job in the car
06:48 PM anonnumberanon: personnally i would like a personal assistant who uses computer vision to remember where i put all my tools when I am working on cars
06:48 PM anniepoo: or a washer and dryer?
06:48 PM robotustra: dishwasher is an obsolet solutoin
06:48 PM robotustra: dishwasher does not wipe dust from shelves
06:48 PM anniepoo: doesn't seem obsolete to me
06:49 PM anniepoo: I use mine a lot
06:49 PM robotustra: it's a solution of the stone age, when there were almost no microcontorllers
06:49 PM robotustra: I want a universal robot
06:50 PM robotustra: it might be completely asocial and autonomus but keep all things done
06:50 PM anniepoo: good for you
06:50 PM robotustra: and it can scary neighbours as well :)
06:50 PM anniepoo: if you decide to acutally make one of those, you'll have questions
06:51 PM robotustra: I'm doing it btw
06:51 PM robotustra: whch questions?
06:51 PM robotustra: why it's not social?
06:51 PM * anniepoo realizes she could have done a bit on the snail instead of this
06:52 PM robotustra: ok
06:52 PM robotustra: escape from serious topic
06:52 PM robotustra: after you finish your snail you might understand that just lost your time :)
06:53 PM robotustra: people do not solve real problems, the prefer "make snail" :)
06:53 PM robotustra: but never mind
06:53 PM robotustra: do wnatever you want
06:55 PM robotustra: I started my robot build from th question: "What kind of robot could be the most useful"
06:55 PM robotustra: the answer is - autonomous adult size humaniod robot
06:56 PM robotustra: all other kind of robots - are toys
06:56 PM robotustra: it's equivalent to "blinking with LEDs"
06:58 PM robotustra: I'm too tough today
07:01 PM anonnumberanon: it smells like sweat
07:02 PM robotustra: anonnumberanon: what smells?
07:03 PM anonnumberanon: your toughness m8
07:04 PM robotustra: whatever
07:05 PM anniepoo: lol - is he still talking? I put him on ignore a while back
07:07 PM robotustra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcXNPI-IPPM&t=2m15s
07:08 PM robotustra: anniepoo: I dont' care
07:08 PM robotustra is now known as robotustra__
07:08 PM robotustra__: anniepoo: I don't care
07:08 PM robotustra__ is now known as robotustra
08:51 PM robotustra: GuShH: how are you?
11:09 PM anniepoo: 8cD we now have metal casting capability - first melt today
11:10 PM zhanx: nice pics or it did not happen
11:10 PM anniepoo: hmm... hang on, got pix other day of the first fire
11:10 PM anniepoo: but no pix today of the melt
11:12 PM zhanx: anniepoo: i want to do lost wax casting so, all the pics the better
11:13 PM anniepoo: that's what we're doing
11:13 PM anniepoo: 8cD
11:15 PM anniepoo: https://www.instagram.com/p/BSSbPivjkti/?taken-by=anneogborn
11:16 PM zhanx: way too loud for this time of night
11:16 PM anniepoo: sorry, not loud on my machine
11:17 PM anniepoo: it's not all that loud in person
11:17 PM anniepoo: it's louder now. 8cD
11:19 PM zhanx: nice
11:19 PM zhanx: i have the page open for tomorrow
11:20 PM anniepoo: fire!
11:20 PM anniepoo: well, we'll have plenty of oppty's to get better pix
11:59 PM anniepoo: zhanx - what are you casting?