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[00:31:31] <rue_house> interesting problem, it looks like there can be multiple G commands on one line, so I suspect I get multiple oks, which screws up the one line per ok design
[02:16:24] <Jak_o_Shadows> HELP! Who was it that knew about telescopes and stuff?
[02:16:48] <Jak_o_Shadows> I have to convert from right ascension/declination of stars, to where in the image they would show up (ie. pixels)
[02:18:00] <Jak_o_Shadows> Knowing that the lens boresight is pointing at a specific rac/dec
[02:33:31] <synja> sounds neat, but alas, i would be no help :P
[02:33:45] <synja> what's your project, Jak_o_Shadows?
[02:35:32] <Jak_o_Shadows> Looking at stars. I need to generate a map of the stars based on some camera params
[03:01:43] <Jak_o_Shadows> ah. I think it might've been orlock
[09:17:01] <rue_house> the ozy'
[09:17:37] <rue_house> arg, whats his nick
[10:18:40] <tsglove> NickTheOzy
[12:27:52] <i-make-robots> force a \n after every OK?
[13:48:06] <Snert_> self-driving smart cars aren't gonna really take off until 1/2 of the intelligence resides in the roadway itself.
[13:48:20] <Snert_> or is built into the lamp poles alongside the roadway.
[13:48:40] <Snert_> that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
[14:50:37] <i-make-robots> Snert - i disagree. putting half the intelligence in another system adds a new way for the system to fail.
[14:50:59] <i-make-robots> for example, if there's a power outage then your car can't go anywhere.
[14:51:14] <i-make-robots> because it was just temporarily lobotomized
[14:56:46] <deshipu> I don't think that optimizing for performance during outages is a good strategy in this case
[14:56:55] <deshipu> you can always drive it yourself, you know
[14:57:22] <deshipu> Snert_: I'm very hopeful for this, because there is a chance that this infrastructure will be public and possible to be used for other things
[14:57:54] <deshipu> Snert_: it will start with the roads, but as more stuff starts making use of it, it will spread
[14:59:38] <deshipu> and the sensors will get cheaper and better, just like all the smartphone stuff recently
[15:05:16] <SpeedEvil> The smartphone stuff is damn near adequate for cars.
[15:06:52] <deshipu> well, it doesn't have stuff like proximity sensors
[15:07:06] <deshipu> or cheap lidars
[15:18:19] <i-make-robots> self-driving cars are already here. You're suggesting a *downgrade* to existing technology. it sounds to me like you're not with the times.
[15:27:49] <z64555> there should _always_ be a manual override for machines that have the capability of killing animals and humans.
[15:30:31] <deshipu> z64555: tell that to USA army
[15:31:00] <z64555> different kind of machine
[15:32:49] <deshipu> no real scottsman
[15:33:24] <i-make-robots> suddenly adding offensive weapons to this discussion... wut.
[15:34:00] <deshipu> i-make-robots: you think what will be the favorite use of self-driving cars for terrorists?
[15:34:37] <i-make-robots> i can't parse that sentence.
[15:35:29] <i-make-robots> i think there will be self driving busses for most people, self driving cars for the middle class, and human-driven limosines for the rich.
[15:35:31] <deshipu> get a cheap Tesla (once they make them cheap), put a bomb on it, tell it to drive to the embassy
[15:35:46] <SpeedEvil> deshipu: the counter is easy
[15:35:47] <i-make-robots> so? embassies are armed against vehicle attacks
[15:35:54] <deshipu> i-make-robots: then school
[15:35:56] <SpeedEvil> deshipu: get another tesla, tell it to drive to iran
[15:36:07] <i-make-robots> schools are, too.
[15:36:07] <deshipu> SpeedEvil: they did it already
[15:36:25] <z64555> going off a tangent here, guys.
[15:36:35] <i-make-robots> so the self driving car will stop at the school parking lot? not close enough to do real damage.
[15:36:53] <i-make-robots> a tangent on a dumb discussion makes no difference.
[15:36:54] <z64555> I was referring to the machine itself being able to cause deadly harm, without any assistance from weaponry
[15:37:09] <SpeedEvil> I note that many tens of thousands could be killed by terrorsts enabled by self-drive and it'd be a net win
[15:38:40] <z64555> Should the self-driving AI malfunction, the presence of a manual override can allow its occupants to regain control
[15:38:54] <deshipu> i-make-robots: you seem to fail to realise how the "terror" in "terrorism" works, you don't need real damage
[15:39:14] <i-make-robots> i'm not easily scared, either.
[15:39:36] <deshipu> i-make-robots: all the terrorist attacks in USA in history killed fewer people than babies playing with their parent's guns within a year
[15:39:50] <i-make-robots> irrelevant.
[15:40:21] <z64555> Things are "overbuilt" in many cases because of psycological factors
[15:40:34] <deshipu> but babies are not scary, so they don't cause politicians to introduce stupid laws
[15:41:02] <z64555> For example, a walkway catastrophically collapsed underneath expected normal load due to a fabrication error
[15:41:05] <i-make-robots> let's imagine half the brain of the self-driving cars was in the city grid. someone will hack the city grid and cause accidents that way. the terror will be that maybe your car will be the one being attacked this time. that's more insidious than a bomb in a tesla. there's no technical solution to a social problem (unrest).
[15:41:45] <z64555> The replacement walkway had to be look and feel 10 times more solid than the previous, just so that people would feel comfortable to walk on the new one
[15:42:04] <deshipu> z64555: right, and that costs
[15:42:36] <z64555> Yes, it's more expensive. But if they didn't do it then they'd have 0 income anyway
[15:43:12] <deshipu> z64555: it would be less expensive to not have the first one collapse in the first place
[15:43:21] <deshipu> z64555: that was an accident of course
[15:43:36] <z64555> it was no accident
[15:44:01] <deshipu> z64555: but if you wanted to bring such a company down, you could cause such an accident on purpose -- even if nobody was hurt, if you just pubicized it enough, you would get your effect
[15:44:02] <z64555> I forget where it happened, but it involved all-thread for the suspension
[15:44:14] <deshipu> z64555: that hotel
[15:44:33] <z64555> it wasn't intentional, either. The foreman was incompetant and wanted to do things the easy way
[15:44:38] <deshipu> z64555: I know what you mean -- it was an accident, it was a design (or re-design, rather) error -- nobody did it intentionally to endanger people
[15:44:46] <z64555> yes
[15:47:16] <deshipu> in any case, I can easily see someone putting a bomb in a self-driving car just to slow down the development
[15:47:52] <deshipu> someone who has invested a lot in traditional fuel, for instance
[15:48:28] <deshipu> say, someone who recently bought a lot of actions of a russian oil company
[15:49:43] <i-make-robots> i think you mean to be in #conspiracy
[15:49:51] <i-make-robots> this is #robotics
[15:50:08] <deshipu> i-make-robots: so what robots have you made recently?
[15:50:20] <i-make-robots> ha! lots. marginallyclever.com
[15:50:45] <i-make-robots> i have five deltas on my desk and i'm currently trying to perfect an open source stepper servo.
[15:51:13] <i-make-robots> the physical servo is built. the library is proving to be a real challenge.
[15:51:50] <i-make-robots> smooth motion isn't hard. detecting interference and behaving appropriately is the trick.
[15:52:04] <deshipu> I think I saw some guys doing a kickstarter for that
[15:53:07] <i-make-robots> yeah. their model has the sensor on the stepper motor. mine is separate. so you can detect the backlash and measure the actual position of your device instead of the shaft position.
[15:53:35] <i-make-robots> what have you made lately?
[15:54:32] <deshipu> I'm working on the sixth version of my quadruped, got it to be cheap enough, now working on making it easier to program
[15:54:42] <i-make-robots> pics?
[15:54:57] <i-make-robots> crab style quad or dog/horse style quad?
[15:55:01] <deshipu> https://hackaday.io/project/19603-d1-mini-tote
[15:55:04] <deshipu> crab
[15:55:13] <deshipu> but I did mammals too
[15:55:16] <i-make-robots> nice. esp8266?
[15:55:39] <deshipu> yes, with micropython -- the previous version had a Pro Mini, but people don't really like C++
[15:55:39] <i-make-robots> my last hackaday.io project:
https://hackaday.io/project/945-5-axis-robot-arm
[15:55:44] <i-make-robots> i have a few on there.
[15:56:09] <deshipu> that is a bit larger than I'm comfortable with
[15:56:55] <deshipu> got my robots to below $30
[15:57:51] <i-make-robots> nice! $150 (4xCOGS) is an affordable robot.
[15:58:06] <deshipu> COGS?
[15:58:17] <i-make-robots> cost of goods sold - total cost to manufacture the robot.
[15:58:29] <i-make-robots> including human labor, parts, overhead, packaging, etc.
[15:58:51] <deshipu> ah, right, well, I don't plan to ever manufacture it
[15:58:58] <i-make-robots> sure. your call.
[15:59:18] <deshipu> *maybe* I will sell some kits on tindie one day
[16:00:00] <i-make-robots> yeah. i might start with unassembled kits and a youtube video tutorial, see if tindie likes it. then try a KS.
[16:00:13] <deshipu> I don't want to get rich on it, I want to make more people make cooler robots
[16:00:46] <deshipu> by giving them a better starting point -- but I don't want to just give them a ready toy
[16:01:54] <deshipu> this is actually one of the reasons why I'm working on making the programming better now -- because with arduino and with tv remote as a controller, it was pretty much just a toy
[16:02:18] <deshipu> I want to encourage programming instead of just remote control
[16:02:20] <veverak> :)
[16:02:20] <i-make-robots> i feel that. still... the # of people who want to build a robot is WAAAAAY smaller than the people who want to play.
[16:02:39] <i-make-robots> imo the way to encourage programming is to make programming suck less.
[16:03:07] <deshipu> right, one reason why I switched to a high-level language
[16:03:27] <deshipu> also, the interactive console is very helpful for experimenting
[16:04:14] <i-make-robots> -_- that... doesn't make coding suck less. it abstracts away what the machine is doing, which is harder for new people to understand. makes your life easier, probably doesn't solve the problem you're trying to tackle.
[16:04:43] <i-make-robots> scratch is a shit language for you and I, but great for starters. they've eliminated the chance of a syntax error, which is a huge amount of time wasted
[16:05:09] <i-make-robots> now if they could build on that, find ways to detect obvious logical errors....
[16:06:15] <i-make-robots> speaking of programming = hard:
https://vimeo.com/71278954
[16:08:19] <deshipu> i-make-robots: there is already ongoing work for a code blocks editor for micropython, and I'm also participating in that
[16:08:28] <i-make-robots> nice.
[16:08:51] <deshipu> it's actually very nice, because it has two windows side-by-side
[16:08:59] <deshipu> and as you add blocks, it generates python code
[16:09:10] <z64555> high/mid level languages makes it easier to make functions and use libraries. So you can offload the work to what's done before and focus on the parts of the logic that you want to
[16:09:10] <deshipu> so that you can transition more easily
[16:09:45] <deshipu> and they are leaving out some things from the block editor on purpose -- to encourage people to switch to code at some point to do more
[16:10:41] <z64555> You can do some neat tricks in assembler, and even use "special" opcodes that most higher level languages don't have the ability to. But if you have a language which can accept assembler (like C) then you can get the best of both
[16:12:52] <i-make-robots> why stop there? why not show the assembler in a third window?
[16:12:56] <deshipu> I also need a more gradual tutorial for building that robot
[16:13:10] <deshipu> starting with blinking a led, controlling a single servo, etc.
[16:13:27] <deshipu> then IK for a single leg
[16:13:35] <deshipu> etc.
[16:13:39] <z64555> i-make-robots: what would be the point or purpose?
[16:13:56] <i-make-robots> z6 - exactly what i'm wondering about the second window. if blocks work, just use those.
[16:13:57] <z64555> opmtimize for speed? optimize for program size?
[16:14:27] <deshipu> i-make-robots: the point is to teach a real-world programming language
[16:14:36] <deshipu> i-make-robots: not a toy
[16:15:10] <i-make-robots> if your block language isn't a real language, who the fuck is going to care? it'll be LOGO all over again.
[16:15:21] <i-make-robots> learned it as a kid, never used it again. stupid.
[16:15:26] <deshipu> logo is turing-complete
[16:15:43] <deshipu> why aren't you programming your robots in logo then?
[16:15:45] <i-make-robots> and so is your block language, right?
[16:16:09] <deshipu> it's not mine, and it's proper python, not some made-up toy language
[16:16:44] <z64555> graphical programming languages are victim to display clutter, as much as any
[16:16:49] <i-make-robots> 9_9 yes, fine, not YOURS. is the block language of which you've spoken turing complete?
[16:17:05] <deshipu> i-make-robots: yes, python is turing-complete
[16:17:44] <i-make-robots> then why would I use text-python when i could use the better block-python that has no syntax errors?
[16:17:59] <i-make-robots> what makes it not a "real language"?
[16:18:08] <deshipu> i-make-robots: try to write a long program in scratch and you will see
[16:18:15] <z64555> text-based programming languages have an avantage of being more mature, and can be fed to a huge array of word processors
[16:18:30] <deshipu> i-make-robots: text is just much more compact and easy to read, not to mention faster to write
[16:18:43] <i-make-robots> for you. did you watch that link I posted?
[16:18:55] <deshipu> i-make-robots: years ago
[16:19:07] <i-make-robots> we're dinosaurs who do things the way we've always done them for Reasons, mostly because it's all we're good at.
[16:19:27] <z64555> gpl's have the advantage of showing all of the callers and callees to the various functions
[16:19:28] <i-make-robots> some smart kid will find a fast way to lego blocks and that'll be it.
[16:19:36] <deshipu> i-make-robots: Bret Victor makes some great points, but he also makes some pretty ridiculous simiplifications -- he's a graphic designer, so it's ok
[16:20:14] <z64555> but, the caller graph can just as easily be made by chucking the code base through a program like graphviz
[16:20:50] <i-make-robots> ok. text being "compact" only means your GPL is wasting screen real-estate. faster to write is a HID problem or a user comfort problem.
[16:21:06] <i-make-robots> z64555 - updated in real time, as you type.
[16:21:40] <i-make-robots> running a third party app might as well be mailing it to head office by carrier pidgeon.
[16:21:59] <deshipu> i-make-robots: note that there is no difference between that "block language python" and "text python" -- it's all the same language all the time, the only thing that is different is the editor
[16:21:59] <z64555> not really
[16:22:19] <deshipu> i-make-robots: so what you are talking about is just the presentation
[16:22:29] <z64555> of course, now you've diverged from talking about programming languages to IDE's
[16:22:43] <i-make-robots> yes. if the gui can make programming better, great!
[16:22:54] <i-make-robots> can the medium be separated from the meaning?
[16:23:02] <z64555> yes
[16:23:22] <deshipu> WYSIWYG is a horrible paradigm
[16:23:32] <Tom_L> WYSINWYG
[16:23:38] <z64555> not horrible, just used wrong
[16:24:09] <Snert_> deshipu: situtational awareness, far ahead of what local sensors can provide if all sensing is done within the vehicle. Vehicle radius of awareness is very small.
[16:24:24] <z64555> WYSIWYG's should only ever be used for GUI design and placement
[16:24:34] <z64555> *graphic design
[16:24:35] <deshipu> Snert_: but then you run into access control problems
[16:24:37] <Snert_> humans can look ahead and see quite a distance.
[16:24:42] <deshipu> Snert_: and privacy problems
[16:25:01] <Snert_> your car picks up traffic situations way ahead.
[16:25:17] <Tom_L> Snert very true. i can see the moon, stars planets etc
[16:25:25] <Tom_L> get a sensor to do that
[16:25:31] <Snert_> weather ahead may change in a couple miles.
[16:25:40] <z64555> Trying to do WYSIWYG on a programming level means that you get a _LOT_ of clutter
[16:25:41] <deshipu> Tom_L: I think they did it with the Hubble ;)
[16:26:03] <Tom_L> after a couple trys
[16:26:17] <z64555> To be effective with it, you'd have to have several levels of being able to collapse/condense blocks
[16:26:37] <deshipu> z64555: for a general-purpose language yes, but the whole point is really that you don't want a general purpose language -- you want a domain-specific presentation that makes the given task easy
[16:26:52] <deshipu> z64555: the problem with that, however, is that you need a spearate one for every task
[16:27:20] <deshipu> z64555: a general purpose language lets you do anything that a computer can do
[16:27:43] <z64555> yup
[16:31:07] <i-make-robots> to me text based languages look horribly cluttered. and the formatting arguments!
[16:31:30] <i-make-robots> make a gui that simplifies organizing the clutter. collapsing blocks is a good start.
[16:31:53] <deshipu> so why are you not using logo if you learned it? why did you switch languages?
[16:32:11] <deshipu> what was wrong with it?
[16:32:56] <i-make-robots> where are you going with this? I brought up logo as an argument that any new language should be a "real" language.
[16:33:07] <deshipu> so why is logo "unreal"?
[16:33:17] <deshipu> I can't see what you mean by "real"
[16:33:25] <i-make-robots> i didn't say it's unreal. I said I learned it and never used it again, so it was a stupid use of my time.
[16:33:41] <deshipu> then why did you choose to not use it?
[16:33:55] <i-make-robots> never used a commodore again.
[16:34:06] <i-make-robots> all my current ides are for other languages
[16:34:11] <deshipu> logo is availabe on pretty much any platform
[16:34:19] <i-make-robots> great. so what.
[16:34:26] <deshipu> and there are ides for it too
[16:34:42] <deshipu> so that can't be the real reason
[16:34:52] <i-make-robots> get to your point.
[16:35:48] <deshipu> I'm trying to pin-point what you mean by a language being "real". Your answer syggests that languages that run on a commodore are not real, if taken at the face value -- but that can't be right
[16:36:02] <deshipu> so there must be something else
[16:36:25] <i-make-robots> "<deshipu> it's not mine, and it's proper python, not some made-up toy language" <-- you started the real/fake talk.
[16:36:43] <z64555> toy != fake
[16:37:30] <deshipu> i-make-robots: I know what *I* mean by "toy language", but that doesn't match your statements, so I'm trying to understand
[16:37:52] <i-make-robots> z64555 - doesn't it?
[16:38:00] <deshipu> i-make-robots: in particular, for me, a block-based language would be a toy language
[16:38:02] <z64555> no
[16:38:10] <deshipu> i-make-robots: by its limitations
[16:38:14] <z64555> a fake language is useless. a toy language as limited use
[16:39:27] <i-make-robots> i don't split hairs as much as you appear to. to me a limited use language is a fake language.
[16:40:52] <z64555> An apple is an apple, yeah?
[16:41:06] <deshipu> in any case, I will focus on making that robot run on python, and I will let others invent the next revolutionary visual language
[16:41:11] <i-make-robots> i'm glad you like to eat rotten fruit.
[16:41:22] <i-make-robots> deshipu - cool.
[16:42:05] <z64555> nevermind mind that you use granny smiths for cooking, and honey crisps for eating
[16:42:22] <z64555> and red delicious apples to annoy people
[16:42:44] * z64555 noms a gaia apple
[16:43:20] <i-make-robots> you just moved the goal posts. a rotten apple or a good apple, flavor of apple is not relevant.
[16:43:30] <z64555> yes it is
[16:44:15] <i-make-robots> flavors of apple are all "real". rotten apple is "fake".
[16:44:56] <z64555> no, a wax apple is fake
[16:45:40] <z64555> rotten apples have an unappealing skin, in addition to a mushy feel to them
[16:45:59] <deshipu> is this conversation going somewhere?
[16:46:03] <i-make-robots> no.
[16:46:12] <Snert_> hey. now. now. How else would man have discovered alcohol?
[16:46:29] <i-make-robots> grapes
[16:46:35] <z64555> not while i-make-robots doesn't get the idea behind toy != fake
[16:46:41] <Snert_> you know Mr. Caveman ate a rotten apple and got buzzed.
[16:47:55] <z64555> fake languages are like wax apples. They look nice, but they neither taste very appealing nor do they provide nurishment
[16:48:28] <z64555> toy apples are like washington apples, they tast and look good, but they're only really suited for a snack
[16:48:34] <z64555> *toy languages
[16:51:22] <z64555> hm
[16:51:34] * z64555 looks at the bag again to see what the cultivar actually is
[16:57:26] <z64555> this is probably a Mac apple
[17:48:33] <i-make-robots> so i have three sections to the code for this servo. part 1, sense things (collect data). part 2, decide how to act. part 3, act. part 2 is like the ? before "profit!" i can't seem to make it behave as smoothly as I'd like.
[17:49:36] <i-make-robots> it should move to a target position when there is no interference. it should "go limp" when there is interference. after a short delay in limp mode it should try to move again. and yet... maybe my desire for smooth behavior exceeds my abilities.
[17:50:36] <i-make-robots> wierdest part is that it is far more passive (limp) in one direction than the other.
[18:35:18] <z64555> whats your planner algo look like
[18:35:31] <z64555> and is this for a monkey bot climber?
[18:40:51] <i-make-robots> ...i don't know where you got monkey bot from... i'm making a youtube video describing the issue and then uploading the code to github.
[18:43:41] <z64555> somebody shouled a 3 servo monkey bot earlier that would climb up a board with some pegs/screws in it at certain points
[18:44:03] <z64555> presumably your bot is a walker
[18:44:08] * z64555 reads backscroll
[18:45:33] <z64555> oh that was deshipu
[18:48:38] <synja> only 3 servo?
[18:49:30] <z64555> yeah, 1 per grabber, and 1 for the link between them
[18:49:44] <synja> sounds really basic, but cool nonetheless
[18:50:42] <z64555> It's enough to play with different IK solutions
[18:52:38] <synja> IK?
[18:53:11] <z64555> inverse kinematics
[18:56:48] <synja> ah, thanks
[18:59:57] <synja> i'm sure everyone in here knows this, but you can easily convert servos to be continuous
[19:00:14] <synja> just by taking apart the top cover and removing the stopper
[19:00:20] <synja> on the gear
[19:26:07] <z64555> depends on the pot, sometimes they have stops too
[19:31:13] <synja> really? i've never encountered that
[19:34:12] <z64555> you, uh, might've broken them o.0
[19:39:40] <synja> nope
[19:55:56] <anniepoo> I watched a guy clip the pot leads and wire in a fixed divider as part of converting to a continuous rotation servo
[19:56:17] <anniepoo> this was cheapy 9g servo
[20:02:05] <z64555> That basically just changed it into a motor
[20:02:35] <z64555> converted the position controller into a speed controller
[20:02:50] <Snert_> do not let this guy work on your stuff.
[20:03:43] <z64555> who me? D:
[20:03:57] <Snert_> heck no.
[20:04:07] <Snert_> the servo destroyer mentioned before.
[20:05:07] <z64555> oh ok
[20:06:04] * z64555 dodged a bullet
[20:06:30] <Snert_> I have cold beer at home and a car to get me to it
[20:08:37] <synja> lol Snert_. w/e. i'm the fastest programmer anyone has ever seen :P idk about the best tho
[20:16:15] <rue_house> anyone here on the east end of canada?
[20:16:36] <rue_house> I need to get around the vancouver customs office
[20:16:37] <Tom_L> why would i be there?
[20:16:43] <rue_house> they are backed up 42 days
[20:17:52] <Tom_L> seems you're on the wrong side of the line
[20:23:09] <anniepoo> sorry rue
[20:36:10] <rue_house> theBear!!! >:}
[20:36:14] <rue_house> wake up bear
[20:50:14] <Tom_L> rue_house, what are you needing that customs wants to play with a while?
[20:50:47] <rue_house> customs is backlogged 45 days on all backages from china to canada thru burnaby
[20:50:52] <rue_house> THIS IS ANNOYING
[20:51:05] <rue_house> packages are taking from 45 to 65 days to arrive
[20:51:05] <Tom_L> it's not the chinese holiday doing it is it?
[20:51:09] <rue_house> no
[20:51:13] <Tom_L> huh
[20:51:15] <rue_house> its canada customs
[20:51:21] <Tom_L> gotta love em
[20:51:38] <rue_house> the packages are arriving in canada ~4-5 days after ordering
[20:51:58] <Tom_L> what have they got against china?
[20:52:04] <rue_house> then they take 40+ days for customs to process
[20:52:07] <rue_house> drugs
[20:52:11] <rue_house> apparently
[20:52:27] <Tom_L> well stop mail ordering drugs...
[20:52:32] <rue_house> I hope their finding lots cause this is really annoying
[20:52:38] <rue_house> illegal drugs
[20:52:44] <Tom_L> i know :D
[20:52:46] <rue_house> the kind killing addicts
[20:53:04] <rue_house> if addicts weren't dieing, they wouldn't care
[20:53:17] <rue_house> was it not a self-solving problem?
[20:53:31] <Tom_L> seems so
[20:53:48] <rue_house> those addicts are the ones breaking into the storage at work 2-3x a year stealing wire
[20:53:53] <Tom_L> but then you know the govt always must interfere with the flow of things
[20:54:15] <rue_house> I dont think customs is using fifo
[20:54:19] <rue_house> I think its filo
[20:54:27] <Tom_L> they're starting to use copper coated wire here
[20:54:34] <rue_house> bad stuff
[20:54:42] <rue_house> not even approved
[20:54:47] <Tom_L> they steal it from street lights
[20:54:55] <Tom_L> from inside the poles
[20:55:09] <rue_house> about 2 years ago they started stealing aluminum wire too, that was new
[20:55:12] <rue_house> yea
[20:55:18] <Tom_L> naw, this is for power company stuff
[20:55:24] <rue_house> its usually #6 copper, 4 consuctors
[20:55:27] <Tom_L> they're getting their stations broke into too
[20:56:16] <Tom_L> that and copper plumbing from vacant houses
[20:56:17] <rue_house> wouldn't happen if scrappers didn't work like they did
[20:56:26] <rue_house> not in your arae?
[20:56:36] <Tom_L> sure do
[20:56:41] <rue_house> kat was saying about the trailers having the siding stripped off
[20:56:58] <Tom_L> not surprised
[20:57:09] <rue_house> wow, the usa is going rotten from the inside out
[20:57:25] <anniepoo> lol
[20:57:32] <anniepoo> you noticed?
[20:57:35] <rue_house> this is how easter island fell, this is just the tip of the iceberg
[20:58:02] <anniepoo> sorry - uh, I advocated for staying off politics
[20:58:11] <anniepoo> I should do it myself
[20:58:19] <rue_house> you heard about canada putting up a wall to keep us immigrants out?
[20:58:36] <rue_house> US
[20:58:36] <Tom_L> it didn't used to be like this
[20:58:45] <Tom_L> we've got too many permanent visitors now
[20:58:47] <rue_house> no, metal wasn't a commodity
[21:00:40] <Tom_L> other than kicking my garage door in, i've been pretty lucky
[21:01:15] <rue_house> ugh
[21:01:30] <rue_house> my tent collapsed and I cant put it up alone
[21:01:47] <Tom_L> they won't do it again...
[21:02:04] <Tom_L> too bad you don't live around the corner..
[21:02:55] <rue_house> need a 12' mecha I can hold it up with while I put the legs back on
[21:03:25] <Tom_L> can't do one end at a time?
[21:03:50] <rue_house> sides
[21:03:53] <rue_house> not really
[21:04:08] <Tom_L> rope it off to something while you get the other side
[21:04:15] <rue_house> I only have one set of repalcement couplings for the leds, and if any break, I'm in a mess
[21:04:23] <rue_house> I want a 12' mecha
[21:05:50] <rue_house> I heard a song today
[21:05:56] <rue_house> I song I'v know well for a long time
[21:06:00] <rue_house> but today i heard it
[21:06:14] <rue_house> "dreamer, nothing but a dreamer..."
[21:06:31] <Tom_L> i forgot who sings that
[21:06:35] <Tom_L> supertramp?
[21:10:13] <Tom_shop> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrj3-MhbEmY
[21:15:47] <rue_house> :)
[21:16:07] <rue_house> it pissed me off, I dont want to be just a dreamer
[21:16:36] <rue_house> I want to be the "WHOLY MOTHER OF **** HE ACTAULLY DID IT!!!!!" guy
[21:16:43] <rue_house> :)
[22:32:56] * rue_house wakes up
[22:33:00] <rue_house> !!
[22:48:27] <synja> rue_house, give me enough funding and i'll build you that 12' mecha :}
[22:59:29] <rue_house> the budget is $240
[22:59:52] <rue_house> but I'v got all the main structural steel
[23:00:03] <synja> sorry
[23:00:05] <synja> :(
[23:00:14] <rue_house> and about 20% of the pneumatic valves
[23:00:29] <rue_house> and microcontrollers
[23:00:39] <rue_house> and the compressors
[23:00:40] <synja> if you multiplied that by 100, then we're talking
[23:01:15] <rue_house> no, this one you have to know what your doing
[23:01:40] <synja> sorry
[23:01:42] <synja> 1000*
[23:01:49] <rue_house> I need wifi adapters for the tripple bonded wifi link to the controller
[23:03:01] <rue_house> and I need to work out how to do stereo vision in one analog video stream
[23:03:45] <synja> you can spend another $5 if you're talking about hydraulics
[23:04:07] <synja> ...for another webcam
[23:13:05] <rue_house> no, it cant be digitial
[23:13:14] <rue_house> digital cameras have tooooooo much latency
[23:13:20] <rue_house> has to be analog
[23:13:22] <rue_house> no buffering
[23:14:05] <rue_house> (nobody can seem to implement a digital video stream without adding a whole bunch of frame-delay buffers to it)
[23:14:43] <rue_house> so, it needs to be done with analog video tech
[23:16:24] <rue_house> I'm wondering if I can sync two camears
[23:16:29] <rue_house> and split the scan lines
[23:16:36] <rue_house> via video switch
[23:16:43] <rue_house> !!!! ja
[23:17:18] <synja> no delay there...
[23:17:57] <rue_house> switch, no delay
[23:23:31] <synja> if you have low resolution, the framesize is lower, causing lower latency. idk much about analog video connections
[23:24:31] <synja> i've been able to get picture real-time
[23:24:40] <synja> idk how much better you would want it
[23:28:14] <rue_house> maybe I could make a reverse google-cardboard
[23:31:25] <z64555> most of that filtering is coming from the camera's codec
[23:31:34] <z64555> You should be able to bypass it and get the raw feed
[23:31:53] <rue_house> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HD-700TVL-CCD-Mini-Security-Video-PCB-Board-FPV-Color-Digital-CCD-Camera-RC-Quadcopter-Accessories/32782675665.html
[23:32:02] <rue_house> why does a camera ahve a 16k eeprom on it?
[23:32:34] <z64555> to use a filter so it can make a pretty picture with a crummy sensor array
[23:33:56] <rue_house> :/ oh, right
[23:45:25] <z64555> ah, it also looks like CMOS has to scan the sensor surface
[23:45:57] <z64555> rue_house: I think CCD is the other tech, the "analog" one
[23:46:29] <z64555> oh, no, that's also a digital
[23:47:30] <rue_house> its analog output, usually a tap on the ccd stream
[23:51:53] <z64555> ah, I thought you were referring to the tubes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_camera_tube
[23:51:57] <z64555> ok
[23:54:22] <rue_house> no, that would clash with my bronze-age keyboard