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[00:59:30] <rue_shop3> ?
[01:25:23] <Jak_o_Shadows> I wish ZIF sockets fit nicely into DIP sockets
[01:53:42] <rue_house> :)
[02:04:42] <Anniepoo__> some years ago I had a wire wrap ZIF socket stuck into a DIP socket
[02:05:02] <Anniepoo__> I probably ruined the DIP socket for normal use
[02:26:44] <rue_shop3> not tooooooo bad for a late night casting
[02:27:34] <Anniepoo__> 8cD you are casting late at night?
[02:27:40] <Anniepoo__> in what substance?
[02:27:46] * Anniepoo__ love casting
[02:28:02] <Anniepoo__> 8cD <-- once had a little business doing urethane castings
[02:51:57] <rue_shop3> might have all been for not
[02:52:12] <rue_shop3> I didn't degass it, there's lots of bubbles in it
[02:52:18] <rue_shop3> aluminum
[02:52:27] <rue_shop3> aaaarg
[02:53:02] <rue_shop3> damn near had to hold the propane tank in the flames with this weather to get it to melt the stuff in the first place
[02:53:45] <rue_shop3> that sucks
[02:54:14] <rue_shop3> its 12:30am
[02:55:40] <rue_shop3> anniepoo, entertainment industry?
[06:11:06] <fishbulb> hey has anyone used one of those tank chassis things from aliexpress ?
[06:11:20] <fishbulb> the alloy ones, there are a couple with bearings that I've seen videos of that can actually get over things
[07:05:44] <fishbulb> does anyone here have experience with the 200 dollar ish "alloy tank/robot chassis" with treads and brushed motors from aliexpress
[07:42:38] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/n6h63j0
[07:59:13] <tsglove> fishbulb, I've seen them, yet no first-hand experience
[07:59:18] <tsglove> there's a couple of them online
[07:59:41] <fishbulb> online where?
[08:01:26] <fishbulb> I can see them on aliexpress but I can't see them doing anything
[08:01:39] <fishbulb> they could be utter shit
[08:02:12] <fishbulb> there's one that looks like it could go over obstacles and carry a payload for at least the duration of the youtube video, but it's nearly 400USD
[08:05:15] <tsglove> fishbulb, sorry, not online as in a blog... online directly on aliexpress
[08:05:28] <tsglove> yet haven´t seen a link of anyone that has used them
[08:05:49] <tsglove> Would be good to now if they're any good... yet double-check the dimensions. From what I remember, they were quite small.
[08:06:20] <tsglove> I mean, maybe that's what you want, so cool. Yet I think they were like under a foot in length.
[08:06:42] <fishbulb> the dimensions don't tell me if the tracks come off after 10 minutes, the motors burn out after 10 minutes, or they just disintegrate because they are stamped alloy held together with risers
[08:07:16] <fishbulb> there was one that had bearings on spring tensioned kind of shock absorber things, and that one looked lke it could hold up to 10 minutes of punishment, going over obstacles, it carried a brick pretty fast
[08:07:21] <fishbulb> but it was close to 400 bucks
[08:07:49] <fishbulb> aliexpress says the dimensions but tracks are the most complicated way of making anything move around
[08:08:00] <fishbulb> they'll disintegrate very fast and very easily
[08:08:01] <tsglove> I would think they are more on the crap side of the Sponge Bob Quality scale
[08:08:32] <fishbulb> there's one that
[08:08:42] <fishbulb> looks pretty good
[08:08:45] <tsglove> There's a company that sells a lot of parts for the "Robotics" competition (in the USA?)... and I remember they have tracks.
[08:38:03] <SpeedEvil> fishbulb: legs can exceed tracks in complexity
[08:38:37] <SpeedEvil> twenty four axes, at least twenty two are guaranteed working at the time of delivery
[08:39:02] <zhanx> splurged and ordered one
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=428-3390-ND
[08:39:26] <zhanx> If my robot only had a brain
[08:40:15] <SpeedEvil> https://macsbug.wordpress.com/2016/12/27/raytracing-with-esp32/
[08:41:28] <zhanx> nice, i got both of those (the same esp and lcd)
[08:42:35] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly, the ESP32 modules aree now $30 or so
[08:43:26] <zhanx> well i can peer review the results on that page
[08:43:42] <Anniepoo__> I just bought a set of OSEPP tracks, their 'tank' kit, for $99, and am quite happy with it
[08:43:49] <SpeedEvil> I suspect (though have no proof whatsoever) that esp are concentrating on getting the next chip revision out before ramping volume
[08:44:12] <SpeedEvil> I'm approaching this another way - and using six hoverboard motors in a rocker-bogie suspension
[08:44:45] <Anniepoo__> I'm partners in a little engineering firm, my partner picked the thing up and said 'how can they make this for $100?'
[08:45:05] <zhanx> SpeedEvil: i think your right
[08:46:26] <SpeedEvil> Anniepoo__: not quite slave labour, a disregard of IP, and lots of firms locally making random crap
[08:46:38] <SpeedEvil> And a disregard of QC very often
[08:47:03] <SpeedEvil> (slave labour is the wrong term, but it's much cheaper)
[08:47:25] <Anniepoo__> agreed. Though this has the look of domestic production
[08:47:53] <Anniepoo__> in this case I think the answer's clever design for manufacturing
[08:47:57] <zhanx> SpeedEvil: aliexpress is slim picking for the ESP32 modules, so they know something is up
[08:48:17] <SpeedEvil> In principle it's become possible through clever design and manufacturing with 'limited' robotics to do a hell of a lot.
[08:48:48] <SpeedEvil> The amount someone clever with a few servos and linuxcnc and opencv can do is quite startling
[08:49:28] <Anniepoo__> but anyway, if you're looking for a robust set of treads, I recommend this set
[08:49:49] <Anniepoo__> rubber track segments joined with steel pins,
[08:50:11] <Anniepoo__> aluminum drive wheels with involute teeth
[08:50:34] <Anniepoo__> body is bolted together from extrusions
[08:51:21] <Anniepoo__> there's a couple things that are iffy - plastic standoffs, and some plastic 2 piece rivets.
[08:51:22] <SpeedEvil> aluminium drive wheels are expensive to buy. Not so much if you buy 4*8' sheets of 4mm aluminium and load them into your cnc and crank out a thousand overnight
[08:51:33] <Anniepoo__> right
[08:51:49] <Anniepoo__> though, as somebody who does crank out 1000 overnight of stuff
[08:51:53] <Anniepoo__> it's not so simple
[08:53:47] <Anniepoo__> https://cutebouncingbunnies.wordpress.com/2015/03/21/ok-once-you-have-boxes-of-product/
[08:54:21] <Anniepoo__> https://cutebouncingbunnies.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/to-make-a-cardboard-hex/
[08:56:19] <SpeedEvil> Oh yes.
[08:56:41] <SpeedEvil> But getting the thousand things made is of course a prerequisite to selling them or not
[08:57:26] <SpeedEvil> reminds me of
http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt - which I wrote on why making a open source mobile phone is not like compiling software.
[08:57:56] <SpeedEvil> (less true for simpler electronic devices you can do on veroboard in an afternoon with $3 of parts)
[08:59:08] <Anniepoo__> yup
[08:59:29] <Anniepoo__> I have a big box behind me as I write this
[08:59:33] <Anniepoo__> (in my living room)
[09:00:05] <Anniepoo__> it's full of plant hangers - steel rod weldments
[09:00:38] <Anniepoo__> it's there because Fedex completely sucks in this area and the customer insisted on using Fedex to ship
[09:01:04] <SpeedEvil> They've not collected?
[09:05:10] <SpeedEvil> I presume you've thought of this, but might only semi-cutting them apart with LASER into coupons of say 15 each, which you then cut out fully in the same operation and can then stick in the bag easily.
[09:05:14] <Anniepoo__> oh, it's nonsense with customer supplied label and fedex not taking the kind of label they supplied
[09:05:20] <SpeedEvil> ah
[09:06:21] <Anniepoo__> cutting what? the hexes? Yes, I put the grass on the whole sheet, then cut them all out and scoop up
[09:06:50] <SpeedEvil> I suppose not a useful optimisation
[09:07:10] <Anniepoo__> well, that's just not the hard part
[09:07:19] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[09:07:24] <Anniepoo__> (cleaning bits of foam rubber out of the laser's a bigger issue)
[09:07:55] <Anniepoo__> the bigger point is, even something that seems trivial to make is a struggle to turn into a product
[09:08:03] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[09:08:23] <SpeedEvil> And for a robot, you've got at least 20 of those parts. Which actually have to fit with other parts.
[09:08:28] <Anniepoo__> right
[09:09:04] <Anniepoo__> not to mention that it's got electronics, which means dealing iwth FCC part 15, RoHS, CE, etc ad nauseum
[09:10:53] <Anniepoo__> I'm hassling with workers comp taxes.
[09:13:51] <Anniepoo__> besides manufacturing things, we of course use the shop for personal stuff
[09:14:14] <Anniepoo__> (it's not entirely a commercial shop, it's sorta half commercial shop, half play space)
[09:15:09] <Anniepoo__> the personal stuff is often more complex, but invariably much faster to make, simply because we don't have to deal with all the issues that come up if you're making lots of them
[09:16:17] <SpeedEvil> yeah. Not having to prove it won't poison kids, ...
[09:16:25] <Anniepoo__> yup
[09:17:23] <Anniepoo__> if you make a wooden toy, and it sells well, the day you make your 10,001st one, you'll have to pay $10,000 for each part in the toy to have it lead tested.
[09:18:28] <Anniepoo__> it used to be it was the FIRST one.
[09:19:03] <Anniepoo__> mom and pop manufacturers, most of whom were women who were frustrated with mass marketed toys and wanted to make something better,
[09:19:27] <Anniepoo__> were driven out of business by the boatload until they got together
[09:19:49] <Anniepoo__> made a manufacturer's assn, and lobbied for reform of the law
[09:20:35] <Anniepoo__> stupidly, you can still easily find imported toys that OBVIOUSLY haven't been through this process
[09:20:41] <Anniepoo__> c(
[09:21:09] <Anniepoo__> |c(
[09:27:57] <SpeedEvil> $10K seems unlikely
[09:28:05] <SpeedEvil> unless it's a specified test by a limited lab
[09:30:02] <Anniepoo__> it is
[09:30:09] <Anniepoo__> it's an X-ray test for lead
[09:31:30] <Anniepoo__> which is kind of silly, lead appears in cheap castings, and in paints.
[09:39:42] <Anniepoo__> and you can't buy lead bearing paint in the US
[09:40:03] <Anniepoo__> anyway, I'm getting sleepy again, headed back to bed
[09:42:00] <SpeedEvil> nugt
[10:32:42] <veverak> here we go
[10:32:48] <veverak> I just had to use variadic templates and tuple
[12:27:16] <winsoff> SpeedEvil, are you an actual engineering student?
[12:47:51] <robopal> he is like 50 years old
[12:48:06] <robopal> geia sou Vangelis
[12:48:31] <robopal> winsoff :)
[12:49:09] <winsoff> heh
[13:19:27] <SpeedEvil> I am neither.
[13:20:32] <SpeedEvil> I dropped out of uni cs/maths/phys degree at 3 semesters in due to health.
[13:37:16] <winsoff> Ah, darn. What do you do instead?
[13:46:16] <robopal> he likes to correct people on irc ;p
[13:52:07] <robopal> has anybody here taken coursera courses on arduino or rpi or similar?
[13:52:27] <Anniepoo_> no
[13:52:59] <Anniepoo_> I mean, I think I understand those platforms, but it's an odd thing to take a coursera course on
[13:53:27] <Anniepoo_> or am I being obtuse here?
[13:53:47] <Anniepoo_> I usually think of coursera courses as academic courses
[13:55:03] <robopal> nah not really, not all of them
[13:55:57] <robopal> I just finished 4 courses on python, the python for everybody series from Michigan university, I have now only left the capstone project it will start this january, this I have to pay
[13:56:13] <robopal> all these courses were based on a single book
[13:56:36] <robopal> and it was really easy for someone like me who already knows programming
[13:56:49] <SpeedEvil> winsoff: Barely cope with the absolute basics of life.
[13:58:02] <robopal> now I am thinking on taking some other course that involves python but I might pospone that because I care more about some other courses on edx platform that start next month
[13:59:26] <Anniepoo_> There's a great value in learning to learn on your own. Not knocking coursera,
[13:59:59] <Anniepoo_> just saying there are many subjects in CS for which you'll just find documentation.
[14:00:11] <robopal> although I just began following a new course, Machine Learning on coursera, it is more challenging
[14:00:12] <Anniepoo_> Arduino and Pi have many, many good tutorials online
[14:00:28] <Anniepoo_> yes, machine learning's definitely something where a course will help
[14:00:45] <Anniepoo_> because it's a deep enough subject that it's not obvious what you need to study
[14:01:01] <winsoff> SpeedEvil, well, damn.
[14:02:49] <Anniepoo_> may be slow responding, I'm making beef stew 8c9
[14:19:28] <justanotheruser> oh winsoff
[14:19:30] <Anniepoo_> back
[14:21:29] <Anniepoo_> oh winsoff, how loyal are your git branches
[14:21:45] <Anniepoo_> your unit tests are green in snow
[14:21:47] <justanotheruser> how do you measure git branch loyalty
[14:22:04] <Anniepoo_> and summers season they're aglow
[14:22:13] <Anniepoo_> oh winsoff oh winsoff
[14:22:19] <Anniepoo_> how loyal are your branches
[14:22:21] <Anniepoo_> 8cD
[14:22:23] <justanotheruser> oh my
[14:31:34] <Vangelis> Geia sou robopal :-)
[15:28:01] <i-make-robots> rue around?
[15:28:25] <i-make-robots> rue_bed rue_house rue_shop rue_shop1 rue_shop3 hello? :)
[15:29:00] <i-make-robots> i'm looking for pictures of your arm from the last maker faire. if you can pm me a url, please do so.
[15:29:30] <i-make-robots> i keep asking and then losing it, because i'm sloppy :(
[15:30:29] <i-make-robots> all i've got is
https://hackaday.io/project/2189-robot-arm
[15:37:10] <justanotheruser> thats a cool robit arm
[15:39:53] <i-make-robots> rue built another that's cable driven in a pull/pull system, that's what I'm looking for.
[15:40:09] <i-make-robots> so sick of trying to buil dna arm with the steppers build on the bones. Want to try it his way.
[15:40:19] <i-make-robots> looking to study what's already been done.
[15:43:20] <justanotheruser> has he actually helped you?
[15:46:41] <i-make-robots> ...he hasn't answered me today. i took pics at the last vancouver maker faire, lost 'em. rue's shown me online pics in the past, but I don't have my book marks any more :(
[15:47:10] <justanotheruser> from what I've seen he just trolls
[15:56:21] <robopal> ,help
[15:56:25] <robopal> !help
[16:30:35] <i-make-robots> justanotheruser i'm sorry to hear that. I've always thought he has a lot of talent.
[16:30:51] <i-make-robots> had? has? had? *shrug*
[17:22:56] <rue_shop3> oo I wonder if doing an extended smart test on all drive at once was a bad idea
[17:59:46] * Anniepoo_ is consuming beef stew
[18:01:08] <rue_shop3> the poor little beefs
[19:06:41] * z64555 flips on the soldering iron
[19:33:56] * rue_shop3 stealthly flips it back off
[19:34:12] * rue_shop3 whistles innocently and wanders off
[19:37:56] * z64555 wonders why the joint is too cold
[19:38:02] * z64555 looks at station
[19:38:07] <z64555> rue!
[19:38:25] <rue_shop3> yes?
[19:38:36] <z64555> hows it going
[19:46:49] <z64555> ugh, this is a sorry looking splice, but it should suffice
[20:22:39] <zhanx> anyone so i can bounce idea's off of?
[20:22:50] <Jak_o_Shadows> hi
[20:22:55] <zhanx> cool
[20:23:25] <zhanx> OK jak using a mic setup to detect sound. and give location based of a circle array of mics
[20:23:42] <Jak_o_Shadows> ok
[20:23:49] <zhanx> I am trying to think of a good way to calibrate it
[20:25:28] <Jak_o_Shadows> How does it need calibrating? Different sensitivites of the microphones?
[20:25:56] <zhanx> well that ( they are all the same but you know how that goes)
[20:26:23] <Jak_o_Shadows> Can you not just put a sound source equidistant?
[20:26:33] <zhanx> its like calibrating anything. It needs to be done to ensure its right.
[20:26:57] <zhanx> I thought of that, one mic at a time etc but wasn't sure when they all on if it would work
[20:27:39] <zhanx> plus i know i need the Uc to fire the sound and base the time of know speed of sound
[20:27:55] <zhanx> along with temp and humidity measurement
[20:28:39] <zhanx> Jak_o_Shadows: heard of the gun mics they have in cities to detect gun shots? its like that minus the gun
[20:28:40] <z64555> Yeah, place 3 sound sources that's a triangle centered on the mic array for calibration
[20:29:01] <Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah, I had an idea of it
[20:29:07] <Jak_o_Shadows> What would you use for the sound source?
[20:29:10] <zhanx> thanks z64555 i didn't think of three, I am n deep etc
[20:29:16] <zhanx> speakers with a tone
[20:29:27] <z64555> They do require calibration, differences in sensitivities etc
[20:30:05] <zhanx> all the parts will be here Wednesday so the real fun begins
[20:30:09] <z64555> A speaker with a tone (preferably a sine wave)
[20:30:16] <zhanx> sine yes
[20:30:44] <zhanx> 20hrtz and then move up 10 at a time to test
[20:30:45] <z64555> If you can't have three sounders, just rotate the bot 120degrees 3 times
[20:31:07] <zhanx> this is a sub system for the bot. so i can do what ever
[20:31:31] <zhanx> i need a welder and 500 more feet of 18 gauge wire to finish the frame
[20:31:36] <z64555> An added benifit of calibrating it like this, means that your virtual ear will be on the rotational axis of the bot
[20:32:14] <z64555> or possibly a deteriment, if you need to do dopplar calculations
[20:32:17] <zhanx> then i need to calibrate also for above and below the ear
[20:32:38] <zhanx> Doppler is gonna suck
[20:32:46] <zhanx> but is a hobby
[20:32:54] <Jak_o_Shadows> How big is this robot?
[20:33:00] <Jak_o_Shadows> also, what is the sound system gonna be used for?
[20:33:05] <z64555> Eh, don't think you'll need to calibrate for azimuth angle
[20:33:08] <zhanx> umm about 6'4"
[20:33:36] <zhanx> sound for location, in conjunction with camera's
[20:34:01] <z64555> You can do the azimuth angle calibration, if you know the height of the ear relative to the ground
[20:34:03] <Jak_o_Shadows> nice
[20:34:06] <zhanx> z64555: azimuth i can do easy, its the polar planes off it
[20:34:27] <zhanx> just more math is all
[20:36:29] <zhanx> all i know is the 8-bit avr's are now sensors probes now and i am switching to ARM's now
[20:36:40] <z64555> zhanx: If your microphones are in a circle, you can calculate the azimuth by using a hyperbolic sine (cos? tan?) between two points on the circle
[20:37:05] <zhanx> z64555: correct
[20:37:32] <zhanx> and with timing off the first / 2nd 3rd etc to hear it i an pin point better in theory
[20:37:41] <Jak_o_Shadows> What ARM?
[20:37:44] <zhanx> can not an
[20:38:22] <zhanx> Jak_o_Shadows: still looking, need something i can program in linux easy, and has a super fast ADC
[20:38:33] <z64555> zhanx: Look up on smart antennas, they probably have the same or similar algorithm that would be applicable
[20:38:44] <z64555> smart antennas/antenna arrays
[20:38:52] <zhanx> k
[20:39:26] <zhanx> gonna layout my white board tomorrow so start this project. I got like 30 subsystems to build
[20:40:01] <z64555> They professionally use it to find cell phone signals and use constructive interferance to modify the antenna's beam pattern to reach out
[20:40:29] <zhanx> gonna build on the code from my last octopod and add a lot more features and drop 6 legs
[20:41:28] <zhanx> i figure i bit off more that i can chew in one bite but if i do it, its worth it
[20:42:02] <zhanx> and its all gonna be opensource free
[20:42:11] <zhanx> since i am using the same to help me
[20:43:20] <zhanx> plus Rue would not like me if i didn't
[20:56:13] <Jak_o_Shadows> Oh geez, if you want something with actual specs for the ADC
[20:56:27] <Jak_o_Shadows> I am using the stm32's, under linux which is easy enough, but I have no idea about how good the ADC is
[20:56:30] <Jak_o_Shadows> I mean, it's working
[20:56:33] <Jak_o_Shadows> but...
[20:58:02] <zhanx> lots of data sheet reading
[23:07:21] <i-make-robots> rue?
[23:10:06] <zhanx> rue is not here
[23:11:52] <z64555> He's got 5 clients logged in, and he's not here -_-
[23:53:45] <Jak_o_Shadows> I really wonder how rue does that. Like, just walk form room to room and it's always on?
[23:57:20] <z64555> He's probably got a terminal at different places
[23:57:59] <z64555> Like people have a TV in every house...
[23:58:59] <Anniepoo__> I'm often on in 3 places
[23:59:19] <Anniepoo__> my laptop at home, my windows machine at work, and my linux machine at work