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[13:40:19] <jesseg> Hello?
[13:40:27] <jesseg> I'll wait around for an answer to that question.
[13:40:29] <jesseg> :D
[13:42:56] <robopal> hi jesse
[13:43:21] <theBear> that's a question? heh, that's rhetorical, i either already know the answer, or don't care what you think :)
[13:43:25] <robopal> I am the public relations officer, how may I help you?
[13:52:36] <anonnumberanon> what was the question?
[13:54:24] <theBear> "I am the public relations officer, how may I help you?" <grin> nah, it was "that's a question?"
[13:57:19] <anonnumberanon> jesseg lied, they said they'd "wait around"
[13:57:51] <anonnumberanon> and here i thought we were about to break the 80-user mark for this channel
[14:02:39] * theBear feels betrayed, although perhaps there was no malice or even ability for sentient thought involved
[14:02:56] <theBear> wowee ! 80 .... it's been a long ride
[14:03:50] * anonnumberanon wishes they had written a statistics module for IRC to know everything about channels and users
[14:04:20] <robopal> I saw a paper once
[14:04:43] <robopal> someone used an irc network to explain social interactions
[14:04:56] <robopal> he had some nice graphs
[14:06:36] <theBear> there's a php script to make em live from logs that been all over fer years
[14:07:46] <anonnumberanon> What would be nice is to get activity frequency, like "when do things happen". Also a thing that determines peoples' post quality, maybe, but that's harder because of trolling.
[14:12:32] <deshipu> that's raises some privacy concerns
[14:15:01] <theBear> how ? if you already got the full comprehensive logs to extract that data
[14:15:51] <anonnumberanon> deshipu, if you put your information out there you give up privacy
[14:17:03] <deshipu> anonnumberanon: not quite
[14:17:30] <deshipu> anonnumberanon: irc is intentionally arranged so that I can see who is on the channel, and I can choose what to disclose based on who is reading
[14:17:58] <deshipu> anonnumberanon: this models some aspects of meatspace
[14:20:27] <deshipu> if you collect and publish logs, you break that
[14:21:25] <anonnumberanon> deshipu, I don't know that that's relevant. You connect to a server by choice. You give it your nick, your connection time(assuming you're not always connected), your away times, and everything you type as messages.
[14:22:33] <anonnumberanon> The only private things are your real location and your identity (assuming you use a cloak/ghost and don't tell people your name).
[14:22:35] <deshipu> anonnumberanon: ah, yes, but I trust the owners of the sever that they keep my privacy
[14:23:30] <anonnumberanon> And the way this would work is not to save and publish logs, it would work as a stream, this is why it would take at least a full day to start pulling statistics.
[14:24:22] <deshipu> anonnumberanon: anybody can save a published stream
[14:24:43] <anonnumberanon> and everyone is doing it
[14:25:25] <anonnumberanon> well all users of irc or at least 75% of them
[14:25:29] <deshipu> that's the problem with digital data -- in meatspace, you don't care about small infractions on your privacy, because they usually go away, as it takes extra effort and preparation to save them
[14:25:35] <deshipu> that's why people hate google glass so much
[14:26:30] <anonnumberanon> tfw about to start working with HoloLens :)
[14:26:58] <anonnumberanon> but it's not the same thing, it's a lot more 3D stuff in it, not some type of HUD like the google glass
[14:27:24] <theBear> fuck people, if they think that well advertised and poorly hidden example is anything like the hidden cameras that are out there happily recording whatever they want without even having a name or brand to boast or lie about
[14:27:40] <deshipu> theBear: fuck yourself
[14:29:00] <theBear> heh, i miss socialisng all the time, i never get told to do that seriously or any other way these days
[14:29:29] <deshipu> no wonder
[14:29:40] <theBear> good to be reminded just what kinda self-serving sociopathic mother you are regularly, helps you stay sharp
[14:30:51] <deshipu> personally I'd rather focus on different things, without having to be vigilant all the time
[14:30:57] <anonnumberanon> I'm just tired of people who put other people down. Last night, roommate goes on about how nobody uses math anymore. He got me into a corner there because
[14:31:14] <theBear> totally, it's being objective and not hesitating to offend that crippled my miserable ass and got me to here, what a fool i was
[14:31:28] <anonnumberanon> if I start to explain to him how math is necessary for micro programming timing or robotics, he would get bored and act superior.
[14:31:38] <deshipu> "objective" is very subjective
[14:31:40] <theBear> i ranted on that last nigth with a pair of irishmen and my buddy
[14:31:52] <anonnumberanon> Meanwhile he spends thousands of dollars on the newest tech and doesn't know a line of C code to save himself.
[14:31:58] <deshipu> anonnumberanon: because that's not really much math
[14:32:28] <deshipu> anonnumberanon: usually it's just a bit of discrete mathematics and perhaps a little bit of linear algebra
[14:33:19] <theBear> oh, we focused more on the lowest denominator, literal, often non-fictional accounts involving people a few years younger than the youngest of ourselves literally not using or even being aware of the math it would take to solve theri problem instnatly, and we talking things like change from a $20 bil
[14:33:20] <theBear> l
[14:33:23] <deshipu> Haskell has some interesting logic and category theory, but nobody uses that seriously
[14:33:27] <anonnumberanon> Yeah but in the frame of reference of saying that 99% of people don't know how to even begin with those things, then yes, it is really math, and it is, really useful.
[14:33:33] <theBear> sure they do
[14:33:49] <deshipu> theBear: that's not math, that's calculations
[14:33:55] <theBear> not me, i say eff the art of functional programming
[14:34:17] <theBear> and how you do calculations without math or math without calculations ?
[14:34:17] <anonnumberanon> me too, but maybe because I don't understand it/know enough about it.
[14:34:27] <deshipu> theBear: the way computers do them
[14:34:41] <anonnumberanon> In my defense I never read anywhere "use functional programming it will help you finish this hard programming challenge".
[14:34:41] <deshipu> theBear: mindlessly copying symbols according to memorized patterns
[14:34:46] <theBear> i do know some of the smartest people/best programmers i ever known or bumped into have been right into it
[14:35:16] <deshipu> I'm not into functional programming myself
[14:35:26] <deshipu> but if you look for math in IT, you are going to find some there
[14:35:33] <theBear> deshipu, meh, i'll give yer that, but being able to do or even appreciate neither, is unacceptable
[14:35:35] <deshipu> there is also some in the "data science"
[14:36:14] <deshipu> theBear: you know Lockhart's Lament?
[14:36:47] <theBear> i dunno, i like and regularly paraphrase to the unenlightened that whole allegory of the cave deal tho
[14:37:47] <deshipu> theBear: I tend to agree with Lockhart -- there is no need for people not interested in math to be forced to learn it, outside of some very basic skills in calculus and geometry that are needed in everyday life
[14:38:17] <deshipu> theBear: forcing them to learn it only hurts the mathematics itself, by making is shallower and more boring
[14:38:30] <deshipu> s/is/it
[14:38:36] <Snert_> I think it's important to know that higher math exists and when to go there.
[14:38:45] <Snert_> but generally, I don't go there.
[14:39:10] <deshipu> exactly -- know it's there, in case you get interested and want to follow it, but don't force everyone into it
[14:39:10] <theBear> yeah, i'm talking about some very bsaic skills that are needed in everyday life
[14:39:18] <anonnumberanon> Back to the statistic module, would be nice if for example you get highlighted in a discussion and it shows you what that user's channels are. I could do a quick /whois which would tell me that. But a module that does it automagically seems like the more advanced level. More intuitive.
[14:39:30] <Snert_> I can go lookup equations for 3rd order butterworth filters anytime I need the info.
[14:39:45] <deshipu> theBear: perhaps if the schools focused on them, instead of trying to get the whole thing down our throats, they would be better understood :)
[14:39:49] <theBear> things like subtracting less than 100 from 100, rounded to the nearest 5, even if rounded before the question is asked
[14:40:45] <theBear> i dunno what the schools do really, like most things, they don't work right on me, and i can't understand if i observe them working right on others
[14:40:52] <Snert_> the whole point of math at the K-12 level is logical thought process. At college level it's a different story.
[14:42:01] <deshipu> there are some basic life skills that schools should teach in my opinion, such as the calculus, life drawing, calligraphy, at least two foreign languages, public speaking, effective learning techniques, logic, etc.
[14:42:10] <theBear> how did this become about the glory of what numbers can be used for ? it's about being surrounded by useless jackasses or how kids get old people down or something
[14:42:17] <anonnumberanon> theBear, you should put Windows 10 in your "real name"
[14:42:35] <deshipu> and there is some completely unnecessary crap that is there just to give us something to do while our parents are at work
[14:42:36] <anonnumberanon> the Windows 8 meme is no longer valid :)
[14:43:01] <anonnumberanon> but Windows 10 still sucks, some guy yesterday was trying to use Photoshop on it and it was all bugged to shit
[14:43:09] <anonnumberanon> working perfectly smooth on W7
[14:43:19] <theBear> oh, i thought that was just a do you even english bro ? kinda parameme
[14:43:44] <theBear> pfft, perfectly smooth and windows in the same country, that's hilarious :)
[14:43:59] <anonnumberanon> oh yeah, that's the other part of the meme, keep that, that's good, just make it better, newer, freshly updated to Winblows 10
[14:44:15] <deshipu> anonnumberanon: not like that photoshop works any better on linux ;-)
[14:45:03] <anonnumberanon> point granted
[14:45:17] <theBear> eff that, i haven't not had windows 10 enough to know any obscure silly thigns to say about it
[14:45:28] <deshipu> could it be that it was written by people who didn't read or follow the official documentation, and instead tried things until they worked, and now that the APIs changed in ways compatible with docs but not their code, there is a problem?
[14:45:36] <theBear> and yer don't wanna change too often or err, i dunno, migth wear yer name out or somethign
[14:45:54] <theBear> inkscape works better on everything
[14:46:02] <anonnumberanon> although man thinking about developing in windows gives me shivers, and my linux development toolset is mediocre at best on linux, but better than it would be on windows with cygwin or mingw.
[14:46:06] <theBear> oh photoshop, i mean gimp
[14:46:25] <deshipu> gimp does something kinda different than photoshop, though
[14:46:27] <anonnumberanon> although when one finds themselves on windows and in need of development, those means are a breath of fresh air
[14:46:40] <deshipu> sure, they overlap a lot, but not entirely
[14:46:48] <anonnumberanon> I hope I'm not completely forced to work on windows for this job coming up though.
[14:47:00] <theBear> heh, pure win on native win compiler/languages/apis is less than mediocre at best
[14:47:25] <deshipu> MyPaint + GIMP + Krita can kinda replace Photoshop, though
[14:47:39] <theBear> gimp is free, it can doctor images and don't do vectoring cos it's not in the mood
[14:47:54] <deshipu> throw in Inkscape and Scribus into the mix, and you are covered
[14:48:04] <theBear> that more than satisfied the criteria for me to mention them
[14:48:17] <theBear> meh, sleepy, i'm out
[14:48:41] <anonnumberanon> yeah gimp is powerful although quirky
[14:49:04] <deshipu> the recent ui overhhaul broke a lot of my workflows :(
[14:49:35] <theBear> less quirky in recent years i found, specially the not including ever plugin anyone even dreamed about like it was for a few years there
[14:49:40] <anonnumberanon> I preyed to the altar of gimp yesterday, it let me open a PDF, erase stuff from it and re-export it as PDF. I did more work in 30 minutes than a windows corporate worker would ever dream to achieve with $300 and a work day.
[14:50:06] <theBear> woop, i'm goin to sleep
[14:50:20] <anonnumberanon> Well personally I find myself having to google stuff I want to do with it. Thus my quirky remark about it.
[14:50:23] <deshipu> anonnumberanon: I usually use inkscape for pdfs
[14:50:32] <anonnumberanon> i should try it
[14:50:53] <deshipu> it's really nice, more like cutting stuff out of paper than drawing, though
[14:51:24] <anonnumberanon> oops 89MB, not gonna install it on this 3G connection :)
[14:53:28] <anonnumberanon> ok ill go back to some tough K&R problem now sigh.. gotta pull through
[14:54:00] <deshipu> enjoy
[15:00:51] <anonnumberanon> It's kinda nice actually it wants me to do a program were you write arguments for the program. That part will be easy but it incorporates into a reverse polish calculator which is an earlier problem that I kinda hated.
[15:08:43] <JT-Shop> dang killed my printer till I figured out the marlin it uses is older so I had to use and older version of arduino
[17:17:54] <TheMadDrizzle> Wondering if anyone can tell me why my shits isn't working? Uno with SeeedStudio Motorshield v2, Parallax 2 Axis Joystick, and 2 brushed dc motors. Code:
http://pastebin.com/4AQSBhtC
[17:28:02] <ace4016> what does not working mean?
[17:29:20] <TheMadDrizzle> I'm getting no response from motors at all. I think i found it though, I think I fuckered the use of the map() function
[17:29:34] <ace4016> hehe
[17:29:50] <TheMadDrizzle> Serial output from reading the joystick is working right, and I'll be able to see if i'm right in the next few minutes..
[17:35:18] <TheMadDrizzle> Alright, I think my problem is trying to pass a reference to an object ( the motor ) to another function?
[17:39:26] <ace4016> C++ or C?
[17:40:50] <TheMadDrizzle> C++, i'm not able to see if theres a difference between C++ and what arduino is written in
[17:41:25] <ace4016> C and C++ will look very similar, but that'll get you in trouble
[17:41:28] <TheMadDrizzle> Im thinkin that I"m passing the wrong data type of a variable, or it's declared wrong.
[17:42:40] <TheMadDrizzle> I'm fairly certain it's C++ because it handles objects
[17:48:29] <ace4016> structs or classes? :P
[17:50:45] <TheMadDrizzle> Never used structs, and honestly barely familliar with classes.
[17:52:32] <TheMadDrizzle> I'm just trying to get an arduino to control a tank drive rc car. My son is extremely interested in robots and battlebots in particular, so I wanted to build him something pretty nifty. Had these parts laying arround and thought, I'm a semi-smart individual - how hard can it be?
[17:52:57] <TheMadDrizzle> The semi-smart portion of that statement is very quickly being rethought.
[17:53:51] <Loshki> TheMadDrizzle: put print statements before and after the call to map() and you should quickly be able to see what's going on
[17:54:51] <TheMadDrizzle> I've dabbled in programming a bit in the past, and I'm getting back into college after a looong time out hoping to major in robotics... Maybe rethinking the robotics bit as well.
[17:54:52] <TheMadDrizzle> lol
[17:56:01] <TheMadDrizzle> Loshki, that's what i'm into now. I've got the motors running, but they're unresponsive to the joystick mappings.
[17:58:47] <Loshki> TheMadDrizzle: dunno what your past experience with programming has been, but get used to debugging, because that's where a lot of the time goes. Hardware is, imo, even worse. No undo button.
[18:02:53] <TheMadDrizzle> Its honestly very limited - About 10 years ago I wanted to design video games, joined the military, and now I'm trying to get back into it.
[18:07:35] <TheMadDrizzle> Whelp, kids home from school theres my hour of work. Gotta put everything away before the little one tries to swallow a jumper wire
[18:44:20] <ace4016> :P
[21:52:18] <ace4016> rue, is this you?
https://youtu.be/KBs_7_fNNjM?t=1372
[21:56:39] <anonnumberanon> http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=ATmega32U4&isNewKw=1&isRefine=true&mfs=GOCLK&acimp=0&_trksid=p2056088.m2428.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xatmega32u4&sqp=atmega32u4
[21:56:45] <rue_bed> no...
[21:58:08] <anonnumberanon> does usb magically replace uart in these devices or does it reduce the chip's usefullness
[21:58:26] <anonnumberanon> lets say youd be using th LUFA USB libraries
[21:58:52] <rue_bed> dont ask me, I just use serial thru a usb adapter
[22:00:40] <anonnumberanon> yeah
[22:31:25] <rue_house> ana! I tiny13 can do this!
[22:31:30] <rue_house> aha
[22:31:34] <rue_house> ok
[22:31:46] <rue_house> tilt and pan (kinda) laser line thats remote controlled
[22:33:55] <orlock> rue: See my bot pics?
[22:34:36] <orlock> rue:
http://en.crypt.net.au/MyBot/
[22:34:46] <orlock> Rematch in a month - i want to add manual control
[22:35:11] <orlock> looking at using a potentiometer (throttle), and a rotary encoder (steering)
[22:35:12] <anonnumberanon> yeah orlock whos is yours and who owns the other one?
[22:35:17] <orlock> pushbutton to signal reverse
[22:35:37] <orlock> Mines pink and green with no edge detectors working, so was just spinning
[22:35:48] <orlock> the other one was one of the many engineers
[22:36:05] <anonnumberanon> man..
[22:36:17] <anonnumberanon> sounds like a cool community
[22:36:19] <orlock> the kids loved it
[22:36:26] <orlock> because it was loud and fast
[22:36:38] <anonnumberanon> rue_house I have a job for you.
[22:36:55] <orlock> anonnumberanon: my employer makes "robots"
[22:37:06] <orlock> so this display is more for the kids
[22:39:00] <anonnumberanon> thats pretty vague orlock
[22:39:43] <orlock> Well, if you have an idea, give them money, they will make it a reality
[22:40:21] <orlock> Want to make a machine that lets people customm-mix their fixxy drink of choice from a list of flavours and types? they will do it
[22:40:30] <orlock> s/fixxy/fizzy/
[22:40:39] <anonnumberanon> aaah yeah i remember hehe
[22:40:46] <orlock> better mousetrap?
[22:40:55] <orlock> automated machine for doing custom pproduction line stuff?
[22:40:57] <orlock> etc etc
[22:41:15] <orlock> the parent company also owns fluke and tektronix
[22:41:18] <anonnumberanon> PLC stuff or not much?
[22:42:07] <anonnumberanon> iv been pondering whether i should learn PLC but its a lot stuff to learn
[22:42:18] <orlock> Sure, i guess, if it's relevant
[22:42:26] <anonnumberanon> seems like the job market for it is large
[22:43:08] <orlock> Now, i want to make a simple rotary encoder, i dont want to spend $60 for a 200/rotation model
[22:43:16] <orlock> but i dont want one of the 12/24 count per rotation types
[22:43:23] <orlock> I've got several quality encoder rings
[22:43:31] <orlock> and i've got a few optical sensors
[22:46:12] <anonnumberanon> so whatcha gotta do to make it happen?
[22:46:35] <anonnumberanon> can i help?
[22:57:57] <jesseg> orlock,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pc-New-200P-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder-200p-r-6mm-Shaft-5-24vdc-/221964724695 and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400P-R-Rotary-Encoder-6mm-Incremental-Optical-Shaft-Working-Measurement-5-24V-US-/361402482978
[22:58:27] <jesseg> orlock, I don't know the quality, but I just got 3 of the 400P/R ones and haven't tested them yet
[23:03:40] <orlock> jesseg: how much?
[23:59:58] <jesseg> orlock, $10-$20 each, depending on seller and pulse count