Back
[00:01:02] <rue_house> meaning I should fix up arm8 and put it back to work on this one
[00:01:28] <codepython7771> rue_house: how long did it take you to code opencv for that one?
[00:03:12] <rue_house> I bet you think its got inverse kinematics too
[00:03:28] <rue_house> nobody can see them, but there are sensors under the end of each track
[00:03:43] <rue_house> its a radically simpler way to detect the marble
[00:04:18] <rue_house> instead of a fast processor, lots of math, and a whole bunch of power, it just uses an IR diode and a IR phototransistor
[00:04:54] <rue_house> takes about 10mW instead of a processor pushing 450W just to use a video stream to unreliably do the same thing
[00:05:01] <rue_house> amazing eh?
[00:05:11] <rue_house> they dont teach this stuff at universities
[00:05:58] <rue_house> grrr frustrating day
[00:06:14] <rue_house> arm9 needs a new controller, there is a short in the existing one
[00:06:55] <rue_house> it randomly makes the arm pull into a curled up posiiton and twitch violently
[00:07:48] <rue_house> but I got more adjustments to the training software
[00:08:13] <rue_house> I'd next like to add something I can go thru the positions in a file and tweek them
[09:21:13] <pokmo> hi
[09:21:34] <pokmo> i see that Tower Pro and EMAX servos are quite cheap, yet quite a few use Futaba
[09:21:40] <pokmo> are TP and EMAX any good?
[09:21:44] <pokmo> what are the considerations?
[09:22:27] <deshipu> 99% of the tower pro servos you see out there are clones
[09:22:42] <deshipu> and their quality varies greatly depending on who clones them
[09:22:52] <pokmo> oh
[09:22:55] <pokmo> how about EMAX?
[09:22:59] <deshipu> no idea
[09:23:56] <pokmo> i'm looking at this
http://www.banggood.com/EMAX-ES3103-17g-Analog-Servo-For-RC-Model-p-77476.html
[09:24:16] <pokmo> 2.5kg-cm torque, if that's to be trusted
[09:26:19] <deshipu> I never used those
[09:26:44] <pokmo> deshipu, what do you use?
[09:29:00] <deshipu> pokmo: mostly the clones of Tower Pro SG90 servos -- because I need a lot of them and don't care about the quality so much
[09:29:18] <deshipu> pokmo: also SG92R, which are *much* better
[09:29:35] <pokmo> deshipu, so what are the lesser quality ones like?
[09:29:51] <pokmo> what issues do they have
[09:29:56] <deshipu> very uneven, depending on the batch
[09:30:17] <deshipu> even the servo horns from one batch won't fit the servos from another
[09:30:47] <pokmo> ooh
[09:31:03] <deshipu> about 1 in 20 will be faulty in some way -- too sensitive, or too weak, or just broken
[09:31:18] <rue_house> the difference is in the positioning stability
[09:31:23] <pokmo> i'm just looking for something cheap and liable. i wonder what toys use
[09:31:28] <pokmo> rather than futaba
[09:31:30] <rue_house> a really cheap one, will have slop or jitter on its own
[09:31:38] <rue_house> a good one will hold its position really well
[09:32:21] <pokmo> wonder why there are TP clones but no futaba clones?
[09:32:24] <pokmo> or are there
[09:32:44] <rue_house> its a standard case size, what do you mean by clone? the spline?
[09:33:05] <deshipu> the markings
[09:33:26] <rue_house> the stickers?
[09:33:52] <pokmo> is the drive train the same though?
[09:34:05] <pokmo> between the genuine and clone
[09:34:45] <deshipu> same number of gears, slightly different sizes, likely different materials
[09:35:06] <deshipu> the lectronics vary too
[09:35:10] <deshipu> electronics
[09:35:30] <deshipu> and the quality of the pot
[09:35:35] <pokmo> right
[09:36:30] <deshipu> what are you building?
[09:37:54] <pokmo> i'm making a clamp
[09:38:05] <pokmo> i'm hoping to find something reliable
[09:38:21] <deshipu> a clamp?
[09:39:18] <pokmo> a robotic claw
[09:39:20] <rue_house> if your using one servo, spend like $12 on it and get a good one
[09:39:41] <pokmo> rue_house, right. what might be a good one?
[09:39:54] <rue_house> anything over $10 is a good one
[09:40:06] <rue_house> unless its hobbyking
[09:40:23] <rue_house> ? I thik
[09:40:25] <deshipu> rue_house: so those sg90 clones sold for $20 are good?
[09:40:39] <rue_house> hah, er
[09:40:42] <pokmo> yeah
[09:40:43] <pokmo> ha
[09:40:54] <pokmo> i'll actually need to make quite a few
[09:40:55] <rue_house> something not sold on ebay
[09:41:15] <rue_house> USA sellers like to buy china stuff and then resell it for 10x markup
[09:41:17] <pokmo> are there specific brands?
[09:41:28] <rue_house> I like the futaba ones I have
[09:41:33] <pokmo> futaba :(
[09:41:47] <deshipu> I actually like the sub-micro servos I got fro hobbyking
[09:41:48] <pokmo> that's high end
[09:41:59] <rue_house> what country are you in?
[09:42:01] <pokmo> what do mid range RC cars typically use?
[09:42:06] <deshipu> I guess it's not the same as the ones they sold 20 years ago
[09:42:11] <pokmo> australia
[09:42:16] <deshipu> ouch
[09:42:22] <rue_house> I'm in canada, hobby king screwed me on the shipping
[09:42:35] <deshipu> rue_house: and that means their servos are bad?
[09:42:56] <rue_house> yea the servos were crap too
[09:42:59] <pokmo> hobbyking prices are high
[09:43:08] <pokmo> compared to local chinese prices
[09:43:13] <deshipu> haha
[09:43:36] <deshipu> the 'local chinese' are usually very bad clones
[09:43:52] <pokmo> deshipu, but are hobbyking ones genuine?
[09:44:03] <deshipu> pokmo: yes
[09:44:19] <pokmo> isn't hobbyking based in hong kong
[09:44:52] <rue_house> http://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=EMXES08MAII
[09:45:07] <pokmo> rue_house, yeah, i was looking at emax
[09:45:09] <deshipu> they are a little less shady than your average chinese ebay seller
[09:45:11] <rue_house> I'd expect that one to pretty descent
[09:45:44] <deshipu> though of course they are still shadier than your local bricks-and-mortar store, probably
[09:45:46] <pokmo> i've got the ES08MA II, but mine has plastic gears
[09:45:50] <pokmo> very quiet
[09:46:04] <rue_house> how can digital servos still cost $300?
[09:46:44] <deshipu> free market \o/
[09:46:55] <rue_house> http://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=HITHS311S
[09:47:04] <rue_house> these ones have done really well for me
[09:47:06] <pokmo> greed /o\
[09:47:15] <rue_house> compared to even chinese ones that cost more
[09:48:28] <rue_house> or just make your own servos
[09:48:35] <pokmo> i was just hoping to go for what my RC car uses
[09:48:41] <deshipu> with blackjack and hookers
[09:48:43] <rue_house> I have a 4 channel loop controller based on an atmega32
[09:48:44] <pokmo> but it's got no marking..
[09:50:25] <rue_house> no, I dont understand why the average prince of a servo is $60-$100
[09:50:34] <pokmo> all of the branded servos i've seen in commercial products are futaba
[09:50:44] <pokmo> like in RC helicopters etc
[09:50:54] <deshipu> rue_house: *hobby* servos
[09:50:59] <deshipu> rue_house: a hobby has to cost
[09:51:15] <pokmo> rue_house, is the average price that high though?
[09:51:30] <rue_house> yea
[09:51:48] <pokmo> rue_house, the hitech one you linked to is just $10
[09:51:56] <deshipu> rue_house: you know how a replacemenet plastic lever for one of those helis costs?
[09:52:26] <rue_house> yea, $10 is about as low as you go before its quite chineese
[09:53:00] <rue_house> no idea, every servo uses a different spline, if you wanted to know whats in your car, find a matching spline
[09:54:09] <deshipu> http://www.bladehelis.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLH1157
[09:54:11] <pokmo> the plastic rockers for the EMAX one costs just $0.5
[09:54:22] <deshipu> http://www.bladehelis.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLH1156
[09:55:01] <deshipu> hobby \o/
[09:55:46] <rue_house> there is a production volume thing too
[09:56:12] <rue_house> why arduino are dirt cheap
[09:56:47] <deshipu> ardunio are super-expensive
[09:57:00] <deshipu> arduino clones are cheap
[09:57:09] <rue_house> good point
[09:57:46] <pokmo> i haven't had any issue with arduino clones
[09:57:53] <rue_house> nor me
[09:58:02] <pokmo> maybe i just haven't pushed it hard enough
[09:58:21] <deshipu> most clones are fine
[09:58:25] <pokmo> the Uno, nano clones.. all quite fine
[09:58:33] <rue_house> I dont use them as arduino, I just flash them with my C programs
[09:58:36] <deshipu> as long as they don't start removing "unnecessary" parts from the design
[09:58:42] <rue_house> its just a chip carrier
[09:58:45] <pokmo> even the raspberry pi "clone" works fine :0
[09:58:55] <deshipu> pokmo: they clone pis?
[09:58:58] <pokmo> orange pi
[09:59:03] <deshipu> that's no clone
[09:59:11] <deshipu> different design
[09:59:15] <deshipu> different cpu even
[09:59:17] <pokmo> well
[10:00:04] <deshipu> the raspberry pi foundation has a deal with the chip producer to get the chips cheaper, nobody else can clone them and make them cheaper
[10:00:33] <rue_house> thats no way to secure a market
[10:00:59] <deshipu> well, no clones so far
[10:01:12] <deshipu> competing products -- sure
[10:01:20] <deshipu> but that's to be expected
[10:01:55] <pokmo> same architecture :)
[10:02:18] <pokmo> deshipu, with broadcom?
[10:02:30] <pokmo> or its distributor
[10:02:38] <deshipu> with broadcom
[10:03:09] <deshipu> it helps that it's some super-old obsolete chip that nobody wants anyways
[10:03:14] <pokmo> the allwinner chips work quite fine
[10:03:33] <pokmo> pretty happy with the orange pi
[10:03:38] <deshipu> yes, but you need a different design and a different kernel for those
[10:03:45] <deshipu> so straight cloning is not possible
[10:03:54] <deshipu> to have to actually hire engineers and pay them
[10:04:02] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Upton
[10:04:12] <SpeedEvil> Eben Christopher Upton (born 5 April 1978) is a Technical Director and ASIC architect for Broadcom. He is also a founder and former trustee of the Raspberry Pi Foundation, and now CEO[4] of Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.,[5
[10:04:20] <pokmo> well, the reality is that it's already being done
[10:04:33] <pokmo> whilst chinese labour is still cheap...
[10:04:38] <deshipu> SpeedEvil: what a coincidence
[10:05:03] <deshipu> pokmo: experienced engineers are never cheap, not even in China
[10:05:06] <pokmo> he's actually working for Broadcom?
[10:05:11] <deshipu> though admittedly they are cheaper there
[10:05:17] <pokmo> wouldn't there be some sort of conflict of interest
[10:05:23] <SpeedEvil> The most problematic bit of this is that it inherently ties the Pi to non-hardware-independance.
[10:05:29] <SpeedEvil> By design.
[10:05:57] <SpeedEvil> They can't - for example - choose a nice x86 chip from intel if it were to be offered
[10:06:55] <deshipu> intel chips could be useful for all those iot home heating projects
[10:07:04] <deshipu> you need a heating element anyways
[10:09:20] <rue_house> all my intel chips are on the internet
[10:09:28] <rue_house> and they are all heating
[10:09:39] <rue_house> so that must mean I'm heating with iot
[10:09:52] <deshipu> global warming is all because of you!
[10:09:55] <rue_house> I have AMD heaters too
[10:10:12] <rue_house> what if I'm using solar?
[10:10:38] <deshipu> accumulating energy and releasing it into the atmosphere
[10:10:58] <deshipu> all energy on Earth is solar, ultimately
[10:11:01] <rue_house> just like a rock in the sun!
[10:11:14] <deshipu> rock reflects more
[10:11:43] <rue_house> yes, everyone bounce their sunlight over to the usa
[10:11:54] <rue_house> togethor we can make a difference
[10:12:18] <deshipu> I'm not sure I have a line of sight
[10:12:33] <deshipu> although the idea is very appealing
[10:12:40] <rue_house> relect it off the upper atmosphere
[10:12:56] <rue_house> or lower, whatever
[10:13:28] <SpeedEvil> The Pi CPU is not especially low power
[10:13:38] <deshipu> no, it's a GPU in fact
[10:13:52] <deshipu> with a small arm cpu on the side
[10:14:03] <SpeedEvil> quite
[10:14:12] <deshipu> because they had some free space and didn't know what to put there
[10:14:15] <rue_house> people want graphics more than procsssing power
[10:14:29] <deshipu> don't get me started about people
[10:14:35] <rue_house> haha
[10:14:36] <deshipu> I don't even like the sound of that word
[10:14:58] <rue_house> http://bemelab.xyz/index.php/2015/10/09/scale-with-hx711-and-pic-microcontroller-and-i2c-2x16-lcd-display/
[10:15:04] <rue_house> do you think I can port it to avr?
[10:16:01] <deshipu> can't see any immediately obvious problems
[10:17:31] <rue_house> I'm sure the 711 will work with the tire pressure sensors
[10:19:42] <rue_house> see if I can use two sensors on one chip to get a whole counteracting air muscle going
[10:20:14] <rue_house> I'v worked out the equation for knowing if the air should be added to one side or dumped from the other
[11:56:07] <veverak> hmm
[11:56:16] <veverak> anybody experience with silicion heater on reprap?
[11:56:21] <veverak> thinking about getting one
[11:56:27] <veverak> my standart 12V PCB is doo damn slow
[13:16:27] <codepython777> rue_house: you around?
[16:27:53] <deshipu> https://hackaday.com/2016/06/03/hexapod-tank-from-ghost-in-the-shell-brought-to-life/
[16:30:53] <Snert_> looks like a great excuse for a 3d printer.
[16:36:44] <deshipu> I don't know, you could do it with greenstuff
[16:37:19] <deshipu> but a great job at hiding the servos and the cables
[16:44:01] <veverak> cool
[18:06:29] <anonnumberanon> hey mods how many people were kicked? i cant see the number because i am using an IoT chat client
[18:18:28] <ace4016> Internet of Things...really?
[18:27:51] <veverak> ok
[18:27:55] <veverak> I need a buildfarm
[18:27:57] <veverak> or something
[18:27:59] <veverak> damn it :/
[18:32:13] <anonnumberanon> ace4016: my cell phone haha
[18:32:44] <ace4016> statement still stands :P
[18:35:26] <anonnumberanon> I'm not forcing IoT on you you know ;)
[20:18:56] <rue_house> codepython777, square-ish
[21:17:47] <codepython777> rue_house: around?
[22:04:42] <rue_house> no
[22:04:48] <DeadLighter> http://wikisend.com/download/971354/BasketBallDemo.zip
[22:14:45] <rue_house> http://www.haneycodes.net/npm-left-pad-have-we-forgotten-how-to-program/
[22:14:47] <rue_house> hah