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[00:57:14] <anniepoo_> 8cD Anybody robotifying this evening?
[00:58:26] <z64555> I might when I wake up. does that count? :D
[01:00:19] <anniepoo_> sure
[01:00:22] <anniepoo_> 8cD
[01:54:56] <orlock> togenshi: it depends these days i think
[01:55:01] <orlock> syslog is not longer a default
[01:55:05] <orlock> as its all systemd
[01:55:12] <orlock> doh
[02:21:58] <deshipu> got the half-duplex serial to work on attiny85
[02:22:06] <deshipu> (not my code, though)
[02:52:56] <rue_shop5> bit banged?
[02:53:17] <rue_shop5> ok, the only thing not wired or otherwise missing on the new cnc machine is the cutter
[02:53:30] <rue_shop5> but lets see if the x y z'ness works
[03:02:39] <deshipu> of course it's bit banged
[03:02:46] <deshipu> it's faster than USI
[03:03:06] <rue_house> do you know if the code will work on a tiny13?
[03:03:30] <deshipu> from the comments, apparently it worked for someone
[03:03:46] <deshipu> http://nerdralph.blogspot.ch/2014/01/avr-half-duplex-software-uart.html
[03:03:48] <deshipu> this is it
[03:04:00] <rue_house> wow, cautious and accurate answer
[03:04:34] <rue_house> oh dear god, when you said half, you meant it
[03:04:37] <deshipu> https://github.com/nerdralph/nerdralph/tree/master/avr/libs/bbuart <-- this seems to be a newer version
[03:05:23] <rue_house> you know
[03:05:42] <rue_house> it should be possable to make a 1 wire uart as a secondary chip
[03:05:53] <rue_house> have a recieve and transmitt register....
[03:09:57] <rue_house> ... is hong kong listed as a ltd company?
[03:10:17] <deshipu> I'm sure there are lots of companies with that name or similar
[05:40:06] <rue_shop5> ok its all connected
[07:02:49] <jhylands> deshipu, that wifi sd card reader is pretty neat
[07:03:18] <jhylands> I picked up one of these a while back:
https://store.onion.io/products/omega-dock
[07:03:51] <jhylands> looks like identical specs in terms of processor and memory
[07:04:09] <jhylands> just a lot more I/O available
[07:14:13] <deshipu> jhylands: yeah, they all use the same atheros cpu
[07:14:23] <deshipu> jhylands: also VoCore and UnwiredOne
[07:14:26] <jhylands> I have no idea what I'm going to do with mine
[07:14:34] <jhylands> but its a neat little package
[07:14:56] <jhylands> I like the Omega because it really is packaged for makers
[07:15:09] <deshipu> http://vocore.io/ http://www.unwireddevices.com/en/products-en/unwired-one
[07:15:48] <deshipu> they are all using wifi router chips with openwrt on them
[07:16:19] <jhylands> yep
[07:16:50] <deshipu> nice thing -- build-in wifi and usb host
[07:17:04] <deshipu> bad -- very little computing power
[07:17:24] <jhylands> well, compared to an ARM7 or AVR they are giants
[07:17:38] <deshipu> also, boot time is horrible
[10:07:33] <z64555> okay.
[10:07:47] <z64555> where did I put the reference sheet for the IMU...
[10:08:32] <z64555> perhaps in the folder labaled "datasheets"?
[10:32:11] <z64555> hm, I need some way of testing the ahrs
[10:51:32] <z64555> i need... some way of communicating between the PC and the uC.
[10:51:59] <z64555> a way to visualize the incoming data
[10:52:12] <z64555> and a way to capture the data to a list or spreadsheet
[11:04:51] <LiohAu> SpeedEvil: I have ordered a 8 awg (+/- 8mm2) cable, and it only fits inside 16mm2 electrical connector terminal blocks
[11:04:55] <LiohAu> any idea why?
[11:05:25] <LiohAu> also it's not copper I think, what can it be ?
[11:05:45] <LiohAu> (tin / silver color)
[11:06:42] <z64555> tin, tinned copper, or if your unlucky, aluminum
[11:07:40] <LiohAu> tried to tin it, it worked, so I guess it's not tin right? else the wires would have melt with the tin
[11:07:53] <z64555> no
[11:08:07] <z64555> solder is an alloy of tin
[11:08:17] <z64555> it has a much lower melting point than pure tin
[11:08:34] <LiohAu> I was around 250°
[11:08:44] <LiohAu> no 300°
[11:08:56] <z64555> if you managed to tin it, then it likely is a tin cable
[11:09:12] <anniepoo_> probably tinned copper. Tin's expensive
[11:09:26] <z64555> ah
[11:09:55] <anniepoo_> cut the end of a strand with a sharp tool and look at (maybe under magnification)
[11:10:38] <LiohAu> this is that wire :
http://www.turbines-rc.com/2525-thickbox_default/cable-silicone-souple-rouge-8-awg-1-metre.jpg
[11:10:55] <LiohAu> does the 200° indicates something? or it is only related to the silicon ?
[11:11:22] <LiohAu> silicon sheath*
[11:11:23] <z64555> that's related to the silicon insulation
[11:11:48] <z64555> (silicone, rather. but anyway)
[12:22:32] <jhylands> deshipu, you still around?
[12:29:13] * z64555 looks at some aircraft gauges
[12:52:40] <deshipu> jhylands: gotta run, be back in a few hours
[12:52:50] <jhylands> ok, no worries
[13:11:04] <LiohAu> the shop where I bought my battery tells me that I cannot use and charge at the same time
[13:11:30] <LiohAu> is there something I can do to fix this ?
[13:12:18] <z64555> er. Probably a lipo battery, right
[13:13:17] <z64555> you can, but you'd basically would have to make a charger/supply circuit that would monitor the voltages of each cell
[13:14:40] <z64555> gotta make sure the cells are at roughly the same voltage, and not overcharged
[13:15:59] <LiohAu> z64555: lifepo4 one
[13:16:38] <LiohAu> hm, why is a laptop for instance, able to reload while being used?
[13:17:01] <LiohAu> (reload or charge?)
[13:18:30] <z64555> because their charger is built-in
[13:18:51] <LiohAu> hu?
[13:18:51] <z64555> the thing you plug into the wall just converts the mains electricity into a DC supply
[13:18:56] <LiohAu> oh ok
[13:19:37] <z64555> the charger consists of a balancing circuit, which monitors each cell and discharges them a tiny bit to make sure they're even as possible
[13:20:02] <z64555> and can regulate how much current is supplied to the battery
[13:20:03] <veverak> this is the thing I am wainting to be available freeely for hobbist
[13:20:09] <LiohAu> so I have to open the battery if I want to achieve such a thing right?
[13:20:13] <veverak> have not yet seen circuit that allows this :/
[13:20:15] <z64555> no no no no
[13:20:41] <LiohAu> I mean I need direct access to all the cells (so open)
[13:21:03] <z64555> hm.
[13:21:13] <z64555> do you have a picture of your battery
[13:21:19] <LiohAu> hm
[13:21:25] <z64555> I might be confusing LiFePo4 with LiPo
[13:21:25] <LiohAu> probably let me 1 mn
[13:23:23] <z64555> also how does your charging side look like? solar panel?
[13:23:39] <LiohAu> hmm I have to retake a picture
[13:24:21] <veverak> actually
[13:24:36] <veverak> is there available online charging circuit for 2s li-po?
[13:26:07] <z64555> maybe look into robots/machines that feature regenerative braking
[13:26:21] <LiohAu> z64555:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b2j7ijpcjzp42t5/Photo%2020-05-2016%2019%2058%2002.jpg?dl=0
[13:26:27] <z64555> they might sell a seperate circuit, otherwise you'll have to hack one together
[13:27:18] <LiohAu> this is custom stuff
[13:27:34] <LiohAu> so I don't know if looking at the battery will really help you ^^
[13:28:21] <LiohAu> you only see the epoxy + tape
[13:32:24] <z64555> hm, I'm more interested in the connectors
[13:32:44] <z64555> the 3 socket barrel connector is likely power, what are the two red and black plugs?
[13:33:09] <z64555> unless I got that backward
[13:34:26] <LiohAu> anderson powerpole 75
[13:34:36] <LiohAu> brb
[13:34:59] <LiohAu> got an unexpected event :(
[13:43:54] <z64555> hm... an artificial horizon and heading indicator style guage would handle the angles
[13:44:22] <z64555> turn indicator would handle the turn rate, but I also need pitch and bank rates, as well as an indicator for the accelerometers
[14:12:49] <z64555> ah, think I've got it
[15:24:23] <z64555> ok, got a sketch made
[15:32:12] <z64555> thoughts?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ppychzvx9nn0k0o/gauges.png?dl=0
[15:38:18] <rue_shop5> icons or readouts?
[15:40:00] <z64555> readouts
[15:41:29] <rue_shop5> more colour, less yellow, take all the empty space and fill it with cool looking useless stuff
[15:41:47] <z64555> lol
[15:42:07] <rue_shop5> think "would it look like that in a james bond movie?"
[15:42:22] <z64555> yeah, this is more likely to be some simple HUD looking stuff
[15:42:37] <rue_shop5> just pixels man
[15:42:53] <z64555> I need some indicators like this to see what my IMU is doing
[15:43:14] <z64555> this covers the accelo's, gyro's, compass, and barometer
[15:44:11] <z64555> I guess I'm asking if the gauges "make sense"
[15:44:16] <z64555> just by looking at them
[15:45:57] <rue_shop5> so much wasted space and lack of catch-by-colour
[15:46:12] <rue_shop5> if you glance at a guage, you have to really LOOK at it to work out which one it is
[15:46:27] <rue_shop5> if they all havea different tone, you can locate the one you want to know about by colour
[15:47:22] <z64555> gotcha
[15:48:09] <rue_shop5> use pin striping to group them into related stuff, have dead diagrams that show how things relate
[15:51:09] <rue_shop5> by google searches, it looks like the console design people like the most is the ones on dr who, but they dont count, the TARDIS is a telapathic ship and it dosn't matter what you push/pull/turn, just what you intend to happen when you do it.
[15:51:13] <rue_shop5> *UGH*
[15:51:36] <z64555> lol
[16:03:34] <deshipu> jhylands: and back
[16:04:08] <jhylands> hey deshipu - I have to leave in ten minutes, but quickly - what's the resolution on the ToF sensor?
[16:04:29] <jhylands> i.e., how small a distance change can it resolve?
[16:07:52] <deshipu> jhylands: it returns the result in mm
[16:08:06] <deshipu> jhylands: but I never tested it precisely
[16:08:14] <deshipu> and never checked in the datasheet
[16:08:40] <deshipu> let me quickly check
[16:09:01] * deshipu reads https://cdn.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Sensors/Proximity/DM00112632.pdf
[16:10:06] <jhylands> I read it, couldn't figure it out
[16:10:13] <jhylands> I need to run - I'll be back in a while
[16:11:44] <deshipu> jhylands: seems it has up to 2mm noise and up to 15mm temperature drift
[16:17:49] <deshipu> jhylands: and all results are in mm
[17:45:47] <jhylands> deshipu, thanks - they won't help with the specific thing I was thinking of
[18:26:02] <rue_house> hahah while I was in the bathroom the weather went from clothesline-sunny to raining, to sunny enough to pretend nothing happened
[18:26:03] <rue_house> hahah
[18:28:48] <z64555> happens occasionally
[18:29:12] <z64555> what would've been funny if it was precisely synchronized to your actions in the bathroom
[18:30:47] <z64555> "there was a light sprinkle, then an increasing downpour from the heavens. And, as abruptly it started, it stopped with thunder"
[18:31:40] <TheFactory7> hello
[18:31:50] <z64555> ohai
[18:33:22] <TheFactory7> i want to build a small robot, a bit better than my previous ones, i think i've got a decent budget but looking for feedback on parts and ideas
[18:33:48] <TheFactory7> interested in a tank + 7 dof arm, or wheeled + 7 dof arm
[18:35:26] <TheFactory7> saw some combo kits but all relatively weak so i was thinking of getting the tank and the arm kits separately
[18:36:21] <TheFactory7> i'd like something with the power/build quality of the PhantomX Reactor or better for the arm
[18:37:09] <Snert> budget wise it's gonna cost.
[18:37:42] <TheFactory7> my budget is about $2000-2500
[18:38:42] <Snert> you've seen some of the planetary gear motors available I take it?
[18:38:59] <TheFactory7> and i have some hardware (couple of arduinos, + rpi + bbb + arm64 board)
[18:39:49] <TheFactory7> that's the thing, i'm super weak at mechanics, that's why i wanted to get solid kits and concentrate on programming (i can read data sheets and do some soldering but not great at that)
[18:40:50] <Snert> my budget is about the same. And I'm really disappointed with what that much $ buys you.
[18:41:18] <TheFactory7> yes i wanted to get a bunch of dynamixel and i was discouraged by the price, i was already over $1000
[18:41:32] <TheFactory7> so i thought maybe i'll go herkulex they seem pretty solid from what i read
[18:41:45] <Snert> if you want any strength in the arm it will take more than dynamixel.
[18:42:30] <TheFactory7> i was counting of getting an arm kit from trossenrobotics or a clone
[18:43:44] <Snert> I'm gonna do mine with planetary gear motors and absolute position encoders.
[18:43:50] <TheFactory7> where do you suggest buying things? I saw a few sites (trossen is one but also robotshop) but i saw a lot more on alibabaexpress
[18:43:51] <Snert> but to each their own.
[18:44:22] <TheFactory7> :) first i need to learn what a planetary gear motor is
[18:44:30] <Snert> I've been getting absolute gray code encoders from aliexpress for under 50bucks each.
[18:46:27] <Snert> I'm also looking at used linear slides with encoders on aliexpress.
[18:46:28] <TheFactory7> i saw very nice tanks on aliexpress, i have no idea however if they will stand the weight of the arm when fully extended
[18:47:12] <Snert> mount a linear slide vertically and have vertical positioning of the claw.
[18:48:34] <TheFactory7> i'd like to build a cheaper version of
http://www.robotshop.com/eu/en/dr-robot-jaguar-v6-tracked-mobile-platform-arm.html i'm just not prepared to drop $40k
[18:49:42] <TheFactory7> i see a lot of cheap toys and super expensive military toys, nothing in the middle for me to play with
[18:51:05] <Snert> I'd say check into the more precision gear motors and such on Ali.
[18:51:57] <Snert> but as you noticed, tthere is nothing of any quality in a 2,500.00 price range so I've come to think I'll haveta do so mechanical myself.
[18:52:31] <TheFactory7> yeah that kills all my enthusiasm, i need to partner up with someone good in mechanics
[18:57:20] <Snert> bed lifts are another source of powerful drive mechanics.
[18:59:26] <Snert> in the end you'll have to do it yourself I bet. So googles about those kinds of things are helpful - at least to know some of what is available.
[19:30:30] <SpeedEvil> There is a trade between price, volume, speed, ...
[19:30:46] <SpeedEvil> For example - you can make really strong positioners using threaded rod
[19:31:06] <SpeedEvil> but they may - even if oiled/greased only work for a few dozen to a few hundred cycles
[19:31:15] <SpeedEvil> (which can be fine)
[19:34:27] <z64555> threaded rod is also quite slow
[19:34:53] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:43:52] <rue_shop5> unless you have a 800+rpm motor to drive it
[19:50:29] <Snert> factors like that kinda make hydraulics start to sound interesting.
[19:51:03] <rue_shop5> heh
[19:51:05] <Snert> but of course, along with that comes the associated hydraulics factors like leaks.
[19:51:11] <rue_shop5> till you see the pricetag on the valves
[19:51:26] <rue_shop5> then you will rush over to pneumatics
[19:51:51] <rue_shop5> and just live with it-was-complicated-but-only-had-to-write-it-once control software
[19:53:05] <Snert> a quick look at ali shows hydraulic valves 50100 bucks. First glance, not too bad.
[19:53:16] <Snert> 50-100 bucks that is.
[19:54:53] <Snert> but there's a whole helluva lot more to it than just that I suppose.
[19:59:28] <Snert> 1 hydraulic leak on my carpet and the wife would shoot me. So that would put it have to be done entirely in the garage.
[20:05:09] <z64555> heh
[20:10:07] <Snert> prolly the only affordable hydraulic pump I could use would be from a snow plow - the kind of plow you mount on your pickup.
[20:25:58] <rue_shop5> proportionate hydraulic valvues are about $15000 ea
[20:28:45] <jhylands> The reality is you're biting off way more than you can chew, if you aren't good at mechanics
[20:29:15] <jhylands> you need to work your way up to that - I would recommend you look at spending your entire budget on building either an arm or a tracked base
[20:29:44] <Tom_itx> it's not the course of how things progress. they start at the top and fail their way to the bottom
[20:29:48] <Tom_itx> and quit halfway down
[20:29:54] <jhylands> you'll find out after you've spent most of your money that what you bought isn't going to work
[20:30:02] <jhylands> and then you'll quit in disgust
[20:30:08] <jhylands> seen it happen too many times
[20:31:16] <jhylands> if you want a solid tracked base to play around with, this one is hard to beat:
http://www.lynxmotion.com/c-120-no-electronics-kit.aspx
[20:31:54] <jhylands> you can put decent quality gearmotors with high-count encoders on it
[20:32:24] <rue_shop5> ok I have 3 robotic arms, 4.... maybe 5, I have to get ready to do something interesting for a maker faire
[20:32:43] <jhylands> I used that kit as a base to build this:
http://www.huv.com/blog/uploaded_images/BrainBot-TrackedBase-05-746466.jpg
[20:33:26] <jhylands> which then morphed into this:
http://www.huv.com/blog/uploaded_images/BrainBot-Production-758060.jpg
[20:34:38] <jhylands> but the original one, with just a simple arm, would probably do well for TheFactory7
[20:38:22] <TheFactory7> jhylands: that looks awesome
[20:38:38] <TheFactory7> (the morphed)
[20:38:48] <jhylands> That tracked base is by far the best quality I've seen in the hobby space
[20:40:28] <jhylands> If I was going to build an rpi-controlled tracked base robot, that's definitely the one I would get
[20:40:41] <jhylands> and the great thing is, its not very expensive either
[20:44:29] <jhylands> if you're looking to build a powerful arm, here's a video to watch that I made 7 years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nu9BYpMrwY
[20:45:54] <jhylands> that's an expensive servo, but you only need one of them
[20:46:55] <jhylands> I would use one of these:
http://www.trossenrobotics.com/p/mx-64t-dynamixel-robot-actuator.aspx
[20:47:03] <jhylands> along with a few AX-12's
[21:47:23] <Snert> how proprietary is dynamixek?
[21:54:39] <rue_shop5> aren't those about $250ea?
[21:55:37] <rue_shop5> with $250 I could build 8 robots, have 4 that end up as useless heaps, and still have $10 left over
[21:56:00] <jhylands> that servo (the MX-64) is $300
[21:56:20] <rue_shop5> see? thats crazy
[21:56:34] <jhylands> but if you want to lift some weight, and you don't know how to build that stuff yourself, then you can either buy it, or do without
[21:57:08] <jhylands> Snert, what do you mean by proprietary?
[21:57:30] <rue_shop5> for people who spend a fortune trying to build _1_ robot, never get any experience building things, and end up really discouraged when it dosn't work cause of their lack of experience building anything and decide to not bother building anything ever agian
[21:58:01] <jhylands> sure, which is why I suggested he buy a solid chassis that is relatively inexpensive
[21:58:10] <rue_shop5> and then they walk around saying that the only real way to do things it to just buy them finished
[21:58:58] <jhylands> you could say exactly the same thing about many different things in life
[21:59:09] <jhylands> vehicles, tools, furniture
[21:59:33] <Snert> never mind. googled up some libraries. Looks good.
[22:00:11] <rue_shop5> till you find out it plays the wav header as audio cause 'its not much data'
[22:00:21] <jhylands> you can build a car from scratch, but unless you like building cars, I can't imagine why anyone would go that route if they wanted a car to drive
[22:00:33] <rue_shop5> and that the sample timer is out by 40Hz cause they rounded
[22:01:01] <jhylands> sure, if you want something custom and perfect and exactly meeting your specs, you have to build it yourself
[22:01:45] <jhylands> I had the same problem with underwater robots
[22:02:13] <jhylands> but for someone who wants to play with software, buying a kit and thus paying someone else to do the R&D makes perfect sense
[22:05:51] <rue_shop5> perfect is not playing the header of a wav file as audio and rounding 14400Hz to 12000 cause the numbers work easier
[22:06:40] <jhylands> I assume there's some actual product you bought that does that?
[22:10:05] <rue_shop5> no, just the open source code that everyone uses in products cause nobody wants to pay real coders to make anything properly cause people are ok with producing cr** cause they feel its all just going to be thrown away a week down the road and by then they will have made their money and moved on.
[22:11:24] <Snert> I don't see that as an obstacle though. Rip the crap out and play whateverfile ya want, however.
[22:11:32] <jhylands> so you think people that want to work on the software side of robotics should have to spend almost no money and build everything from scratch because software you want to use sucks?
[22:12:22] <z64555> there's different paths that can be taken
[22:12:40] <rue_shop5> it would lead to more people knowing more, making better things and pulling up the grade of everything manufactured
[22:13:32] <jhylands> by that same logic, anyone who wants to drive a car should have to build one... That would also lead to more people knowing more, and making better things
[22:13:51] <jhylands> etc
[22:13:53] <z64555> it would also make the knowledge "common"
[22:14:06] <z64555> meaning, the people taht actually get paid for this skilled labor get lower wages
[22:14:39] <z64555> why pay somebody such a pricey wage, if it's common knowledg,e yah?
[22:15:02] <z64555> :)
[22:15:20] <jhylands> the reality is, probably way less than 1% of the people involved in any particular hobby (like robotics or RC planes or whatever) are capable of building better versions of what you can buy
