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[00:08:06] <DagoRed> .g programming language not equal foreign language chris hawkes
[00:08:07] <makepi> DagoRed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZnNWITP9j0
[00:11:30] <Snert> I maintain that C or C++ is every bit as foreign a language as any other language.
[00:12:30] <Snert> but I'd ratha see C on an arduino taught in schools.
[00:13:27] <Snert> in other words, an interpreted language doesn't count. Like python.
[00:13:31] <Snert> or perl.
[00:14:06] <DagoRed> Interpreted languages are handy. But I'm with you. Start with C.
[00:14:26] <DagoRed> This is a song that I showed rue a few years back.
[00:14:48] <DagoRed> .g write in c
[00:14:48] <makepi> DagoRed:
http://www.gdsw.at/languages/c/programming-bbrown/c_075.htm
[00:14:50] <Snert> I did alot of interpreted. I was amazed at how much of it transferred almost directly to C.
[00:14:54] <DagoRed> .g write in c youtube
[00:14:54] <makepi> DagoRed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S1fISh-pag
[00:16:24] <Jak_o_Shadows> Whatever you start with (I reckon python), start with the base distribution. Don't customise it one bit to make it easier.
[00:16:51] <z64555> assembler master language! :D
[00:17:04] <z64555> (no its not)
[00:19:11] <DagoRed> Well... I will say I'm seeing a problem with programmers getting out of school and taking jobs paying a lot for when the skills aren't that hard to learn.
[00:19:20] <DagoRed> Like $90k for python?
[00:19:23] <DagoRed> wtf
[00:34:26] <MarkX> http://i.imgur.com/KvEpjmy.gifv
[00:39:47] <Jak_o_Shadows> I have a friend who did some work with a baxter
[00:40:46] <DagoRed> Jak_o_Shadows: The pharma company?
[00:41:03] <Jak_o_Shadows> nah, the baxter robot that was in the link MarkX just linked
[00:44:30] <DagoRed> ahh
[00:44:52] <DagoRed> where is that robot from?
[00:45:44] <DagoRed> That looks like one I worked in college.
http://www.ece.iastate.edu/~alexs/lab/equipment/index.html
[00:54:13] <DagoRed> z64555: Are you still awake? And may I PM you?
[01:16:30] <rue_house> ahahahahaha
[01:16:35] <rue_house> oh I love that game move
[02:23:38] <SorcererX> DagoRed: just because it is written in Python, it doesn't make it simple. I know a lot of AI research and Physics Research done in Python
[02:25:19] <DagoRed> SorcererX: Python is slow. FYI, I've used python for testing of ASIC's and have built my own software defined radios using python. I'm well versed in it's limitations and still I use it when I can. But... I am not without complaints for the language.
[02:26:34] <SorcererX> yeah, I know it is slow
[02:27:34] <SorcererX> personally I code just about everything in C++, at work and at home
[02:28:03] <DagoRed> for me it depends .
[02:28:38] <DagoRed> Shit... speaking of which it looks like I am about to have to take on putting free rtos on an arduino due... because I HATE developing in arduino's IDE
[02:45:22] <z64555> yeah, its... really something
[02:45:33] <z64555> DagoRed: whats up?
[02:56:00] <z64555> I sleep, then I wake up.. Don't really have a sleep cycle anymore
[04:28:45] <rue_bed> oh, and antionic bond
[04:28:49] <rue_bed> of course
[04:36:16] <rue_bed> so take carbon and aluminum, add an extra electron to the carbon and it will form an ionic bond to the aluminum, which will be unstable
[04:37:08] <rue_bed> tho, gasses or fluids would be easier to handle
[04:37:55] <rue_bed> so introduce materials to help them along
[04:39:52] <rue_bed> I need a element chart thats oragnized by how many electrons its short of a full shell
[04:40:12] <rue_bed> oh look, gnumeric, have fun!
[04:40:13] <pokmo> hi
[04:40:14] <pokmo> Given that a part on a shaft needs a certain amount of torque to rotate, e.g., 500N-mm, could it be converted to static/dynamic friction values for the part-shaft contact surface?
[04:40:49] <rue_bed> hu?
[04:41:26] <Jak_o_Shadows> I used to use gnumeric, but nowadays I just jump straight to python. Or google docs
[04:42:09] <Jak_o_Shadows> pokmo, are you looking for a clutch like thing, where it only rotates once it reaches x-force, or are you loking at more securing the part to a shaft?
[04:42:51] <pokmo> Jak_o_Shadows: well, no. i'm trying to draw up a simulation in solidworks. i know the part needs 500N-mm to rotate, but solidworks only allows friction to be specified
[04:43:08] <pokmo> so i'm guessing i'd need to draw it up so that the part rubs against a shaft or something
[04:43:34] <pokmo> but i'll need to define the (equivalent) friction coefficients
[04:43:49] <Jak_o_Shadows> wait, so you're trying to make the thing stiff to rotation?
[04:43:56] <pokmo> yeah
[04:44:05] <pokmo> i measured the required amount of torque empirically
[04:44:26] <pokmo> i need to somehow convert that into friction which solidworks understands
[04:44:52] <Jak_o_Shadows> Could you do a spring thing on it?
[04:45:01] <Jak_o_Shadows> One of those fancy constant force springs
[04:45:06] <pokmo> hmm torsional spring?
[04:45:40] <Jak_o_Shadows> yeah
[04:45:52] <pokmo> yeah, i can do a spring. but the force of the spring is proportional to the distance travelled
[04:46:01] <pokmo> that's not quite the same as torque, right
[04:46:30] <pokmo> my part is just sticky to turn
[04:46:45] <Jak_o_Shadows> yeah.
[04:47:08] <Jak_o_Shadows> I wonder if it could do a constant force spring
[04:47:14] <pokmo> if i use a torsional spring, the amount of force would increase over distance
[04:47:24] <pokmo> constant force spring..
[04:47:26] <pokmo> hmm
[04:47:36] <Jak_o_Shadows> They do exist in the real world
[04:47:53] <pokmo> Jak_o_Shadows: well, the least it can do is linear
[04:48:03] <pokmo> the expression it uses kx^e
[04:48:19] <Jak_o_Shadows> dang
[04:48:26] <pokmo> [-4..-1] [1..4]
[04:48:29] <pokmo> no zero :(
[04:49:00] <pokmo> could torque be converted to friction.. somehow?
[04:49:31] <pokmo> t = Ia
[04:49:43] <pokmo> where I is moment of inertia, a is angular acc
[04:51:01] <Jak_o_Shadows> well, yeah, torque could be converted to friction.
[04:51:19] <Jak_o_Shadows> Depends on wehther you're looking at static friction or dynamic friction. It'd be a bit of modeling
[04:51:41] <pokmo> both, hopefully
[04:51:47] <pokmo> solidworks is happy to take both anyway
[04:52:29] <pokmo> i'm guessing static torque -> static friction?
[04:52:33] <z64555> rue_bed: IIRC, the periodic table is kinda already organized like that. Right-most columns have their valence shell filled, leftmost have only 1 valence electron in the shell
[04:53:44] <z64555> hmm.. columns 1 & 2 are S shells, the metals are F shells, the block next to that is P shells
[04:53:55] * z64555 brings up periodic table
[04:55:09] <z64555> I forget what the last two columns are, maybe S shells
[04:55:44] <z64555> ah, here we go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_configuration#/media/File:Periodic_table_blocks_spdf_%2832_column%29.svg
[04:57:10] <z64555> hm, I do remember something about overlap. so that general rule might not apply for the f block
[05:11:36] <rue_bed> yes and no
[05:12:12] <rue_bed> they show the electrons, but not the holes
[05:14:42] <rue_bed> what I need to work out is a good inverse ionic bond, not one that you put a charge into to take apart, one you put a charge into to hold togethor
[05:15:02] <rue_bed> an anti-ionic bond if you will
[05:23:52] <z64555> sounds... vaguely familiar
[05:26:33] <z64555> bleh. wish I retained more information from my chemsitry classes
[05:49:16] <Donitzo> oh look, there was a robotics channel
[05:50:04] <Donitzo> is there a kit for making a small (~10cm) electric manipulator arm somewhere?
[05:50:27] <Donitzo> with a simple grabbar at the end
[05:50:32] <Donitzo> grabber*
[05:51:45] <z64555> I believe seeing at least one or two
[05:52:00] <z64555> could always hack an armatron
[05:52:25] <Donitzo> armatron looks a bit heavy
[05:52:34] <Donitzo> I was thinking something more spidery
[05:52:47] <Donitzo> lightweight
[05:53:01] <z64555> k, so something tension based
[05:53:23] <Donitzo> tension and... well some kind of electric linear actors
[05:53:29] <Donitzo> I'm not sure what type that would be
[05:54:06] <Donitzo> actuator I guess is the correct word
[05:54:14] <z64555> well, spider's actually use more of a pnuematic/hydraulic system
[05:54:43] <Donitzo> indeed, they have pressure built up in their own exoskeleton
[05:54:48] <Donitzo> if you puncture them they can barely move
[05:55:14] <z64555> for an arm built on that, you'd have a 2-stage piston for each joint
[05:55:39] <Donitzo> well, it doesn't have to be built like it, as long as it's thin and lightweight
[05:55:51] <Donitzo> a linear actuator shouldn't have any problems going both ways
[05:56:37] <Donitzo> though of course I'm not sure if they have any way of detecting their current position, which I would need to do
[05:56:50] <Donitzo> to figure out how the arm is positioned
[05:57:39] <z64555> servo's do that easily. You can make a linear servo, but I'm not aware of any commercially available ones atm
[05:57:53] <z64555> Here's an arm from Lynxmotion that uses servos.
http://www.robotshop.com/en/lynxmotion-al5d-robot-arm-hardware-4dof.html
[05:58:19] <z64555> It's actually more massive than the armatron, but has a smaller profile and is sturdier than the armatron's simple plastic
[05:58:31] <z64555> massive/heavier
[05:58:58] <Donitzo> the linear actuators I've found where almost as expensive as that arm
[05:59:21] <z64555> hm, a flaw I can immediately see with this design, as with many others, is that the axis of rotation is on the servo itself
[05:59:43] <z64555> this puts stress on the servo, and can actually make it less durable
[06:00:23] <Donitzo> yepp, bad idea
[06:00:26] <z64555> it's better to put the servo on a simple gear system
[06:00:40] <z64555> but in light-duty applications it saves space and complexity
[06:01:49] <z64555> If you stick around for a few more hours, I'm sure the guys and gals that know more than me will wake up. :)
[06:01:49] <Donitzo> http://www.robotshop.com/en/firgelli-actuators.html
[06:01:53] <Donitzo> still pretty expensive
[06:02:22] <Donitzo> I wouldn't mind buying a bunch of mini linear actuators in bulk, but at 70 dollar
[06:03:00] <z64555> hmm. I believe those there are a screw in a tube type
[06:03:19] <z64555> motor turns the screw, and the tube which is threaded inside is pushed in/out
[06:03:24] <Donitzo> I'm going to guess that they don't keep track of their position
[06:04:04] <z64555> read the disctription. if it says "RC servo interface" then it keeps track of the position
[06:04:12] <Donitzo> http://www.robotshop.com/en/firgelli-technologies-l12-50-100-12-i.html
[06:04:18] <Donitzo> ah, I see
[06:04:27] <z64555> because a servo positions itself based on the pulse-width of the control signal
[06:05:58] <Donitzo> well, hopefully some company starts massproducing a cheaper version sometime in the future
[06:06:10] <z64555> supply and demand :)
[06:06:37] <z64555> also if it's a new company, or a new product line, the cost will be higher because they have to pay for tooling and engineering design costs
[06:07:15] <Donitzo> we need a bigger demand for people making robotic centipedes
[06:07:40] <z64555> heh, need a bigger demand for roboticists in general
[06:08:15] <Donitzo> though there must be more cost effective methods than making actual screws with a motor
[06:08:23] <Donitzo> the position can be detected with a simple sensor
[06:09:26] <Donitzo> maybe using electroactive polymers
[06:09:59] <z64555> linear potentiometers do well
[06:10:14] <z64555> although there's a concern about dirt
[06:10:49] <z64555> lienar pots work by having two lines of a resistive material between them, and the armature has a wiper that shorts across the lines
[06:11:09] <Jak_o_Shadows> They are also many times more expensive than rot pots for some reason
[06:11:20] <Jak_o_Shadows> annoyingly
[06:11:35] <z64555> because of the need of a dirt-resistant design
[06:11:43] <z64555> also, much much lower demand
[06:11:44] <Donitzo> yeah. I mean it shouldn't be too hard to make
[06:11:51] <Donitzo> you need a high resistance cable of some type
[06:11:55] <Donitzo> and something to grind up against it
[06:11:56] <Jak_o_Shadows> I think it's mostly lower demand, the ones i've been looking at
[06:12:18] <z64555> You only really see linear pots in like, audio switch boards
[06:12:30] <z64555> you know, the ones they use in recording and TV studios
[06:12:45] <Donitzo> yeah, switchboards
[06:12:47] <Donitzo> etc.
[06:52:04] <ideabile> I'm curious about the title of the room, where I can find the psyco robots?
[06:52:50] <z64555> check the website listed immediately after
[06:53:13] <z64555> Probably mean physically controlled, that's the newest control input method
[06:53:27] <z64555> *psychically
[06:53:42] <z64555> They put like an EKG hat on you
[06:53:52] <z64555> or drill a hole in your head and attach a sensor
[06:53:59] <z64555> :)
[07:03:48] <Donitzo> haha
[07:04:00] <Donitzo> the closest I get to that is using mindwave and an e3 lego robot
[07:04:46] <Donitzo> not sure why brainwave scanners are so expensive
[07:05:02] <Donitzo> literally just a bunch of electrodes measuring voltage between a bunch of points
[07:07:44] <z64555> filtering.
[07:07:46] <z64555> most likely
[07:09:07] <Donitzo> either way, I fully expect that some type of +100 electrode hats to be really cheap in the future
[07:09:33] <Donitzo> for comparison, my mindwave has a single electrode
[07:09:53] <Donitzo> but it's enough to get a general idea which brainwaves are the most active
[07:10:08] <Donitzo> and to see if your annoying eye muscles are messing up your data
[07:10:57] <z64555> hm.
[07:11:09] <z64555> a single sample point makes for complicated software
[07:11:25] <z64555> or maybe not, just spitballing here
[07:12:01] <Donitzo> complicated and rathe useless
[07:12:04] <Donitzo> rather*
[07:12:38] <z64555> hey you said it :P
[07:12:58] <Donitzo> if you create a hat with a grid of electrodes you could build a pretty nice map of your brain activity
[07:13:10] <Donitzo> well, to some degree
[07:16:59] <Donitzo> maybe you could try measuring the activity in your visual cortex as you go about your day, while recording what you see with google spyglass or something
[07:17:13] <Donitzo> and then using some machine learning trying to reproduce what you see
[07:17:35] <Donitzo> based on your brainactivity alone
[07:18:18] <Donitzo> it's a bit more difficult to read thoughts since you don't have anything to compare with
[07:20:39] <z64555> right, with sensory input, visual cortex and whatever handles audio, you could look for associations
[07:20:41] <z64555> hm
[07:21:05] <z64555> video input, audio, heart rate, temperature, breathing/oxygen levels
[07:21:13] <z64555> blood sugar, blood pressure
[07:21:58] <Donitzo> and I can only measure 6 out of thise 7
[07:22:00] <Donitzo> those*
[07:22:13] <Donitzo> no blood sugar monitor because I'm not diabetic
[07:22:34] <z64555> eh, blood sugar usually involves a blood sample
[07:22:54] <z64555> there was supposed to be a new checker lately, I don't know if that's anything different
[07:24:10] <z64555> tactile input would be difficult, since the pressure sensors would have to be right between the contact surface and, say, your fingertips
[07:24:30] <z64555> in that case it might be better to tap into the nerve cluster responsible for touch
[07:24:55] <Donitzo> or just have an object you can touch with sensors on it
[07:27:03] <z64555> ah, that would work
[07:27:18] <z64555> have like a ball or something with the imprint of a hand, and have sensors all along it
[07:27:43] <Donitzo> that works for tactile feedback
[07:27:55] <Donitzo> for temperature sensitive nerves just change the temperature
[07:28:44] <Donitzo> though you would have to assume that looking at something activates the memories of the things you're looking at
[07:28:48] <Donitzo> especially if you close your eyes
[07:29:27] <Donitzo> so it could be possible to use the different memories involved in a thought to roughly identify its content
[07:30:41] <Donitzo> see, now this would be a fun experiment
[07:30:48] <Donitzo> just need a really good brainwave scanner
[07:33:13] <z64555> heh
[07:33:26] <ideabile> zhanx: thanks if even I couldn't still found it
[07:33:35] <ideabile> ops I meant z64555
[07:33:37] <ideabile> :-)
[07:35:47] <z64555> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/index.php
[07:36:14] <z64555> that's the link on the room title, dunno if the psycho bots are on there or not
[07:48:22] <z64555> also, you're welcome. :)
[08:30:53] <z64555> kinda lame, but I figured out how staples work while out walking today
[08:31:19] <z64555> kinda steamed they didn't teach how simple fasteners like them work during shop class years ago
[08:31:39] <z64555> and I haven't really messed with them very much
[08:32:24] <z64555> anyway, You're supposed to shoot the staple perpendicular to the forces that will be acting on the material you're fastening
[08:33:05] <z64555> this is so that the staple grabs a tuft of the material
[08:34:00] <z64555> material that is behind the points where the staple punches through doesn't much at all
[08:34:10] <z64555> because it would just tear
[09:31:13] <theBear> wtf ? i hope yer still in school notcining things likethat and sounding impressed, and i don't mean adult school, i mean teh kinda with abc's and multiplication tables, err, i spose i mean non-scientific calculators
[11:33:14] * flyback bites Snert
[11:33:23] <flyback> alaska, close enough to a canuck
[11:37:43] <Snert__> where are you @ flyback?
[11:38:06] <Snert__> Are you in Canukistan?
[11:38:09] <flyback> pa, usa
[11:38:20] <Snert__> o. the right coast.
[11:39:09] <flyback> our winters suck
[11:39:12] <flyback> not as bad as yours
[11:39:14] <flyback> but still suck
[11:39:27] * flyback slipped on ice 2 months ago and canucked his shoulder
[11:39:29] <flyback> still hurts
[11:40:08] <Snert__> you gotta be kidding me :)
[11:40:21] <Snert__> We had a total of 3" of snow all last winter.
[11:40:22] <flyback> na I landed on it
[11:40:26] <Snert__> only snowed once.
[11:40:34] <flyback> yeah this year was short for us too
[11:40:46] <flyback> our driveway is paved, big mistake
[11:40:49] <flyback> turns into solid ice
[11:41:19] <Snert__> I'm in Love!!
[11:41:22] <Snert__> http://i.imgur.com/0DNUyzW.gifv
[11:41:42] <flyback> cool
[11:43:36] <flyback> I love how the alaskan pipeline uses heatpipes to keep the oil supports from melting the ground
[11:43:39] <joga> seems pretty slow
[11:43:45] <flyback> heatpipes own your "canuck"
[11:43:57] * flyback tazers rue_*.*
[11:45:15] <flyback> nice chattign wih you, work, bbl
[14:47:51] <z64555> woo, burgerbot
[14:48:16] <z64555> love how the ketchup and mustard are "christened in the heavens"
[14:49:15] <z64555> theBear: ikr? should've learned this stuff eons ago
[14:49:49] <z64555> but like I said, nobody taught this to me, and I haven't used them often. This is perhaps the first time I thought about staples in at least 5 years
[14:49:59] <z64555> aside from "shoot, the stapler's out again"
[19:17:08] <z64555> started on my bending jig
[19:17:37] <z64555> now... if I can remember how long each side of the dipole is supposed to be, I'd be in good shape!
[19:28:52] <z64555> poop. the bore bit that I have is too small
[19:30:14] <z64555> need a 1.325 diameter bore
[19:30:25] <z64555> which is. uh. 1 3/8"?
[19:31:37] <z64555> nope
[19:32:06] <Snert_> 1 and 1/8th I think.
[19:33:11] <z64555> no, it actually is closest to 1 3/8
[19:33:25] <Snert_> scyooze moi. that would be 1 and 1/8th imperial units.
[19:33:27] <z64555> rather, that's the size of the bit that can get
[19:33:47] <z64555> 1/8 = .125
[19:33:54] <Snert_> not meeta millers.
[19:34:43] <z64555> I have to select the next largest drill bit size so the pipe can fit in the hole
[19:35:12] <z64555> also, drill bits tend to be smaller than their marked size by like, 0.005 inches or so
[19:35:44] <z64555> If a hole needs to be an exact size, reamers are used after the hole has been drilled to expand it
[19:36:26] * z64555 makes a shopping list
[19:38:07] <Snert_> I just wallow the drill bit around.
[22:02:34] <z64555> friends wants a robot mini-fridge
[22:03:01] <z64555> like, have a robot arm that serves him beer or whatever when he calls for it
[22:07:19] <z64555> I'm thinking make a trike base to hold a mini fridge, attach a pair of arms on either side of the fridge, and have a tablet for a head
[22:07:52] <z64555> power would be from a scooter battery, might even be able to repurpose an electric wheelchair
