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[11:30:47] <rue_house> nice boardx
[11:31:56] <rue_house> mrdata, the middle chip is a logic level converter
[11:32:12] <rue_house> the top board isn't RF
[11:32:27] <rue_house> I think its an accelerometer
[11:32:40] <rue_house> so I think thats an accelerometer hooked up to an arduino
[11:32:55] <Casper> rue_house: do you tig?
[11:33:04] <rue_house> yea
[11:33:09] <rue_house> what do you want to know
[11:36:22] <Casper> do you have some good doc/video on how to? because... the way I do it is obiviously wrong...
[11:36:55] <Casper> I get blow throught AND no melt on the same piece...
[11:37:09] <Casper> 1/8" bar, inside corner
[11:47:21] <rue_house> tell me what your welding to what
[11:47:41] <rue_house> and how thick they are
[11:48:13] <rue_house> what shielding gas are youusing
[11:48:24] <rue_house> how much current are you using
[12:10:26] <deshipu> phew, that was a long day
[12:10:40] <deshipu> a friend came over and we made his version of Tote
[12:20:59] <Casper> Argon, 1/8x3/4 steel bars, grinded first, tungsten is grey tipped, pedal, machine automagically set to whatever it said to 10 gauge
[12:21:09] <Casper> and I beleive 20cfm
[12:22:45] <Casper> from what I know, 20 is a bit high... just wastefull afaik
[13:22:23] <rue_shop3> can you take me a pic of how you ground the tip?
[13:27:02] <rue_shop3> <rue_house> how much current are you using?
[13:30:09] <Tom_itx> like a pencil lead
[14:24:54] <rue_shop3> but did he ground around it or along it
[14:26:45] <Hyratel> duuude
https://blog.adafruit.com/2016/01/23/worlds-first-3d-glass-printer-creates-works-of-molten-magnificence/
[15:00:02] <Casper> rue_shop3: tungsten is grounded the right way
[15:00:38] <rue_shop3> so the scratches go to its tip?
[15:01:12] <rue_shop3> your current setting should be about 30 or 40A
[15:01:14] <Casper> yes, axial
[15:03:38] <rue_shop3> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0NpRA7SMRHd6_QAGG7cW2sa9sAzv1CJFEmBdbSZ0cd_t-WyFI
[15:03:40] <rue_shop3> yes?
[15:04:01] <rue_shop3> do you have the tip - aor +
[15:04:14] <rue_shop3> Casper, you have to actually be here for me to help you
[15:04:24] <Casper> correct way
[15:04:38] <rue_shop3> what current did you use?
[15:04:39] <Casper> and tip... hmmm I forgot, but that's how the machine said to connect
[15:04:46] <Casper> the current the machine said to use :D
[15:04:57] <Casper> let me go check
[15:05:01] <rue_shop3> look and see if thats tip + or -
[15:09:11] <Casper> tip is negative
[15:09:24] <Casper> 3/32 tungsten
[15:09:27] <Casper> 125A it seems
[15:11:39] <rue_shop3> use 30-40A
[15:11:45] <rue_shop3> for that metal thickness
[15:14:09] <Casper> hmmm... who to beleive... the machine setting or you :D
[15:14:16] <Casper> big difference in power
[15:14:26] <Casper> the machine say 100A without pedal, 125A with pedal
[15:43:14] <hypodyne> howdy
[15:44:39] <emeraldgreen> good
[15:49:23] <emeraldgreen> >tfw no
http://i.imgur.com/7vfdfp3.jpg
[15:49:36] <ace4016> ?
[15:49:51] <ace4016> reminds me of Phantasy Star Online
[15:50:01] <emeraldgreen> consumer biped robots when?
[15:50:12] <emeraldgreen> its from PSO, yup
[15:50:42] <emeraldgreen> HRP-4C is not that far from that pic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbAqw0sk6M
[15:52:10] <Conner05> So I got this robot and I am trying to hack into it (it has no docs and is over 10 yrs old). I plugged an ethernet cable into it and it has an IP with port 8009 open. Any ideas?
[15:52:41] <SpeedEvil> nmap it
[15:52:46] <ace4016> too bad HRP-4C doesn't actually mimic the human walk....would be more efficient at walking if it did
[15:52:51] <emeraldgreen> google the serial number + pdf ?
[15:52:52] <SpeedEvil> Conner05: then google
[15:53:37] <Conner05> serial number + pdf.. will try that first.
[15:53:48] <emeraldgreen> ace4016 To me it looks like semi-dynamic walk. It's much better than vanilla ZMP. I think lots and lots of hours of fine tuning were done before they shot this video.
[15:54:06] <deshipu> bipeds are stupid
[15:54:40] <emeraldgreen> deshipu You have a point, though we don't have much choice if we want a machine to operate in the word designed for humans.
[15:54:48] <emeraldgreen> *world
[15:55:00] <deshipu> it's just a cargo cult -- let's mimick nature, and we will get its powers
[15:55:02] <ace4016> aye, but you can see she lifts her feet to take a step...which is characterstic of robot walks
[15:55:16] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: there is no world designed for humans
[15:55:33] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: last time I checked, dogs and monkeys operated in that world just fine
[15:55:57] <deshipu> ace4016: I think lifting your feet while walking is pretty common among animals too
[15:56:02] <emeraldgreen> deshipu all these stairs, tables, tools etc? Darpa Robotics Challenge hadmostly bipeds for this reason.
[15:56:51] <hypodyne> but they (animals) mainly use 4 legs
[15:56:57] <ace4016> deshipu, kind of; if you look at the gait, the lift happens in the pass; HRP didn't roll her foot, then swing to pass
[15:56:58] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: I know of no dog that would have problems with stairs, maybe except especially dumb chihuahuas
[15:57:05] <emeraldgreen> Not to say only bipeds should be built. I'm currently at wheeled/hexapod level heh.
[15:57:43] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: a chimp is several times faster than the fastest running human
[15:58:06] <emeraldgreen> deshipu Sure, but it is very similar to a biped
[15:58:09] <ace4016> but not nearly as endurant :P
[15:58:31] <deshipu> right, but robots don't have to be endurant, just put a larger battery in them
[15:58:48] <ace4016> because that's not a challenge...
[15:59:00] <ace4016> (for capacity and such)
[15:59:03] <emeraldgreen> if we had to build a service robot for, say, help the elderly, we'd had to give it a couple of manipulators and a legged base (if climbing stairs were a necessary feature)
[15:59:45] <deshipu> there are wheeled platforms perfectly capable of climbing stairs
[15:59:55] <deshipu> also hybrid solutions
[16:00:26] <emeraldgreen> hmm, ok
[16:00:39] <deshipu> face it, people build bipeds because they want to build something that looks like a human
[16:00:51] <emeraldgreen> that's a part of it
[16:01:07] <deshipu> and then they retroactively find justifications
[16:01:13] <emeraldgreen> But I'm sure that boston dynamics guys wouldn't build ATLAS just for that reason
[16:01:17] <ace4016> common wheeled design for stair climbing:
http://techvault.poornima.org/images/robo/ball2.jpg
[16:01:42] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: they are sponsored by the army, they built it to get grants from the dumb generals
[16:01:55] <emeraldgreen> deshipu then elaborate please on wheeled solutions for stair climbing (which sould suit a vertical robot platform with high center of mass)
[16:02:09] <ace4016> most of the robots built are about as agile as a sloth...
[16:02:12] <hypodyne> fridge trolleys have a similar design
[16:02:17] <emeraldgreen> deshipu You have a point, though it'd be only 50% of their motivation
[16:02:37] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: yeah, they also want to work on something cool and fun
[16:02:39] <ace4016> emeraldgreen, the darpa challenge features a wheeled robot that did just that
[16:02:42] <ace4016> iirc it was from MIT
[16:02:43] <emeraldgreen> the other 50% being that disaster response requires interaction with environment build for human workers
[16:02:51] <emeraldgreen> ace4016 It still had legs
[16:03:22] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: that environment is not "for human workers" anymore after an earthquake and several explosions, though
[16:03:42] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: what you need is a robot with mobility and reach *greater* than human's
[16:03:55] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: and that most likely means primates or even spiders
[16:03:56] <emeraldgreen> deshipu This is a strong argument. The scenario had stairs, doors and human tools after all.
[16:04:23] <emeraldgreen> I'm not saying that bipeds are the best/coolest/etc, but they have their niche
[16:04:38] <deshipu> right, but you don't have to be human-shaped to handle doors and stairs -- you can do better
[16:04:39] <emeraldgreen> deshipu I like hexapods
[16:05:02] <deshipu> there is nothing stopping a hexapod from getting through a door
[16:05:06] <ace4016> emeraldgreen, i don't think any arguement was played against legs; just bipeds :P
[16:05:08] <deshipu> as long as it has enough reach
[16:05:18] <ace4016> though the other primates can be bipedal
[16:05:29] <veverak> 2 legs sucks
[16:05:31] <deshipu> ace4016: dogs can be bipedal :P
[16:05:31] <emeraldgreen> ace4016 bipeds have bonuses in mobility
[16:05:36] <veverak> you always get much better solution with 3+ legs
[16:06:11] <ace4016> emeraldgreen, eh...can't say i've seen dogs not able to navigate well in even tight spaces
[16:06:12] <emeraldgreen> Still, I think that potential market for biped human-like robots is huge.
[16:06:13] <SpeedEvil> veverak: bipeds can sidle
[16:06:37] <deshipu> human's bipedalism is basically for long-distance running
[16:06:39] <SpeedEvil> And sit.
[16:07:10] <deshipu> I think I've seen a dog sit once ;)
[16:08:42] <ace4016> though...humans aren't the only bipeds
[16:08:51] <SpeedEvil> Lies!
[16:08:52] <deshipu> lots of birds out there
[16:08:58] <emeraldgreen> You have some good points about hybrid solutions and multi-legged systems, they require deeper technical review.
[16:09:03] <deshipu> and some lizards
[16:09:08] <SpeedEvil> Humans are teh only biped, it's just a media conspiracy.
[16:09:22] <deshipu> SpeedEvil: the only biped without feathers
[16:09:32] <deshipu> SpeedEvil: at least that's what Aristotle claimed
[16:09:38] <veverak> biped robot with feathers
[16:09:40] <veverak> hmmm
[16:09:42] <veverak> :)
[16:09:44] <deshipu> Aristotle wouldn't lie, would he?
[16:09:47] <ace4016> deshipu, i guess kangaroos have feathers?
[16:10:03] <deshipu> ace4016: they keep them in the pouches, probably
[16:10:04] <veverak> deshipu: was thinking about adding wheels to tote
[16:10:10] <veverak> with 3xdof at least on leg movement
[16:10:15] <veverak> too complicated in final :/
[16:10:19] <ace4016> and wallabies too :P
[16:10:24] <deshipu> veverak: sure, I figured out how to connect 18 servos to a pro mini
[16:10:27] <veverak> or, it would propably be heavier than what those servos can handle
[16:10:35] <deshipu> veverak: so your can use continous rotation servos
[16:10:47] <veverak> deshipu: I am afradi just adding wheel at ends will sucks
[16:10:50] <veverak> :)
[16:10:50] <veverak> *afraid
[16:11:02] <deshipu> veverak: you can make it cartwheel ;)
[16:11:10] <SpeedEvil> veverak: Well, if it's hard-braked, it's not so bad
[16:11:16] <deshipu> veverak: actually, Tote is capable of bipedal walking
[16:11:18] <emeraldgreen> I have 12+6 microservos left. I already have 1 hexapod. I guess the next robot will be a couple of manipulators on 2-wheeled base.
[16:11:20] <SpeedEvil> (when you want to use it as a leg)
[16:11:42] <veverak> deshipu: most stable pose (= the best for riding around) is when each leg got base servo in middle
[16:11:51] <veverak> (so they are 90degress spaced from each other)
[16:11:58] <veverak> in that case, you will only spin on place with wheels
[16:12:27] <veverak> so you need to be able to rotate with the wheels, than it's doable
[16:12:29] <veverak> :)
[16:12:52] <deshipu> if you put them at the ends, you can do all sorts of crazy stuff
[16:13:05] <deshipu> and it's not so hard to control with IK
[16:13:15] <veverak> yeah, it get s interesting after that
[16:13:17] <veverak> :D
[16:13:55] <deshipu> sure, it would be nice to have another servo at the end to rotate the wheel
[16:14:02] <deshipu> I mean, horizontally
[16:14:20] <deshipu> in the vertical axis
[16:14:40] <deshipu> that gives you a nice number of 20 servos
[16:14:42] <veverak> I think we both understand
[16:14:44] <veverak> :D
[16:14:46] <veverak> yeah
[16:14:56] <deshipu> and twice the mass
[16:14:59] <veverak> yeah
[16:15:02] <veverak> :)
[16:15:10] <veverak> that's exactly the point where I stopped
[16:15:22] <deshipu> get it to walk first
[16:15:37] <deshipu> btw, we've build another tote today, with my friend
[16:15:39] <deshipu> for him
[16:15:53] <veverak> yeah
[16:15:55] <veverak> got ap ics?
[16:15:57] <veverak> :)
[16:16:03] * veverak wants to get it walk ,but naaaah
[16:16:05] <veverak> time 404
[16:16:06] <deshipu> unfortunately I didn't think about pics
[16:16:10] <deshipu> I can ask him to make some
[16:16:27] <deshipu> veverak: oh, in that case adding wheels should definitely help!
[16:16:48] <veverak> :P
[16:16:50] <veverak> :)
[16:22:13] <deshipu> veverak: got the phot!
[16:22:17] <deshipu> veverak:
https://hackaday.io/project/6050-tote/log/30721-another-tote-in-the-wild
[16:22:53] <veverak> awesome
[16:22:56] <veverak> :D
[16:22:58] <veverak> qute
[16:23:08] <emeraldgreen> qt robo
[16:25:33] <deshipu> the eyes really help
[16:26:17] <emeraldgreen> would be cool to build a wheeled robot with 1-2 manipulators that allow it to build something with lego blocks. I should try that in the future, when I'll have more time.
[16:26:49] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: I think you need quite strong and precise manipulators to handle lego blocks
[16:27:24] <emeraldgreen> deshipu That's the question - how can it be done with relatively cheap servos
[16:27:26] <deshipu> I'm thinking about making a small roomba-like robot with a magnet
[16:27:34] <deshipu> that would collect lost screws for me
[16:27:37] <emeraldgreen> cool
[16:27:45] <veverak> deshipu: tote on wheels
[16:27:47] <veverak> ?
[16:27:49] <veverak> :D
[16:27:55] <deshipu> veverak: no, something really small
[16:28:18] <emeraldgreen> We have discussed charging circuits for roomba-like robots yesterday in this irc
[16:28:25] <veverak> deshipu: so you can step on it?
[16:29:04] <deshipu> yup
[16:29:58] <deshipu> if I make it flat and strong enough, it should survive the stepping
[16:30:08] <veverak> and would you?
[16:30:10] <veverak> :)
[16:30:25] <veverak> (don't forget that when you step on it it will propably don't have enough traction)
[16:30:28] <deshipu> or I could make it small and too fast to step on it
[16:30:59] <deshipu> but you gave me an idea for a name for it
[16:31:03] <veverak> ?
[16:31:03] <deshipu> crunchie
[16:31:05] <veverak> :D
[16:32:35] <deshipu> I wish they fixed the timer code on WiPy
[16:32:46] <deshipu> then I could put it in Logicoma-kun
[16:41:49] <emeraldgreen> the coolest thing though would be the following:
[16:41:49] <emeraldgreen> 1. define/make a set of simple standard parts that fit with each other like legos: servos, batteries, controllers and sensors
[16:41:49] <emeraldgreen> 2. build a robot using only these parts and program it in such a way that it can (with large probability) successfully assemble another such robot from a set of parts randomly lying on the table.
[16:42:34] <emeraldgreen> that's quite ambitious, I know..
[16:51:47] <deshipu> depends on how large you make those parts :)
[16:51:59] <deshipu> if it's just two large halves of a robot, for instance...
[16:52:03] <emeraldgreen> sure, there are degenerate solutions
[16:52:42] <deshipu> unless you have a specific goal in mind, they are valid
[16:52:52] <veverak> fuck me
[16:53:03] <deshipu> veverak: you are not my type
[16:53:10] <veverak> raspi gives me headache this day
[16:53:48] <emeraldgreen> deshipu Of course I want the parts that maximize design&functional space and minimize costs&self-assembly errors. Some fun optimization problem here :)
[16:54:29] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: just make grey goo
[16:54:37] <emeraldgreen> deshipu Too sci-fi
[16:54:57] <emeraldgreen> I'm a practitioner, after all *glances at his old hexapod* :)
[16:55:17] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: what sensors does the hexapod have?
[16:55:32] <emeraldgreen> deshipu just a usb webcam
[16:55:42] <deshipu> does it do image processing?
[16:55:48] <emeraldgreen> I have analog inputs but didn't get to attaching them to something
[16:55:54] <emeraldgreen> deshipu it did ball detection
[16:56:14] <emeraldgreen> had to calibrate for The One True Ball I happened to have
[16:56:15] <deshipu> I can do furniture detection with my shins
[16:56:29] <emeraldgreen> cool
[16:56:56] <emeraldgreen> these days I'd put digit recognition and face recognition there
[16:57:13] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: did it follow the ball, or just stand there knowing where it is? :)
[16:57:25] <emeraldgreen> deshipu It followed, albeit slowly
[16:57:30] <emeraldgreen> I have to resurrect it
[16:57:49] <deshipu> hexapods can be super-fast
[16:58:01] <deshipu> compared to quadrupeds of the same size
[16:58:18] <emeraldgreen> this is the fastest I have seen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlxTxyLp2qk
[16:58:29] <deshipu> they are basically like bipeds with hyge, overlaping feet
[16:58:41] <emeraldgreen> hexapods are easier than bipeds, sure
[16:58:46] <emeraldgreen> static stability
[17:00:37] <deshipu> although my quadruped is quite fast in the trot gait mode
[17:00:48] <deshipu> not as stable then, though
[17:01:01] <veverak> hmm
[17:01:07] <veverak> as backups of raspberry pi
[17:01:10] <veverak> do I want .img files
[17:01:11] <veverak> OR
[17:01:14] <veverak> rsync file content?
[17:01:21] <deshipu> emeraldgreen: I wonder if you could program your hexapod to use the four hind legs for a quadriped gait, and use the front legs as hands
[17:01:36] <emeraldgreen> deshipu It would break, I made it too heavy
[17:01:41] <deshipu> veverak: rsync won't work with broken filesystem
[17:02:00] <emeraldgreen> but I'm interested in manipulators, sure
[17:02:27] <emeraldgreen> In the end I need robots to automate physical labor. Manipulators are ineviatables.
[17:02:57] <deshipu> robots are not very good at automation, surprisingly
[17:03:21] <deshipu> dedicated tools usually work better
[17:04:01] <emeraldgreen> sure, but so much work is still done by humans
[17:04:34] <emeraldgreen> I think its not that robots are much worse at it, it's a question of economical incentives
[17:06:15] <deshipu> usually doing them by hand is easier and cheaper than robot maintenance
[17:06:38] <deshipu> perhaps we need robots that are easier and cheaper to maintain
[17:06:57] <emeraldgreen> yup, and cheaper/standard servos
[17:07:08] <deshipu> $1.5 is pretty cheap already
[17:07:50] <emeraldgreen> hobby microservos are nice for some purposes but for more precision/power people by dynamixels and even harmonic drives
[17:07:55] <emeraldgreen> *buy
[17:08:07] <emeraldgreen> I don't have money for 20 dynamixels :)
[17:08:36] <deshipu> meh, they are overengineered
[17:08:59] <deshipu> you don't need that precision for legs of a hexapod
[17:09:12] <emeraldgreen> >usually doing them by hand is easier and cheaper than robot maintenance
[17:09:12] <emeraldgreen> I think it's a hard problem, but with right engineering it should be possible to automate 99% of physical labor. The problem is that there is no incentive for doing/researching this.
[17:09:19] <emeraldgreen> deshipu yup
[17:09:47] <emeraldgreen> after doing a legged machine I'm much more interested in manipulation
[17:09:48] <veverak> deshipu: rsync + rdfii backup
[17:10:32] <deshipu> veverak: have you seen borgbackup?
[17:10:57] <deshipu> a friend of mine works on that
http://borgbackup.readthedocs.org/en/stable/
[17:11:31] <veverak> dunno
[17:11:49] <veverak> [ 91.322730] EXT4-fs error (device mmcblk0p2): ext4_iget:4077: inode #260609: comm ls: bad extra_isize (65663 != 256)
[17:11:50] <veverak> yeah
[17:11:53] <veverak> awesome
[17:12:06] <deshipu> toldya
[17:12:38] <veverak> nah
[17:12:44] * deshipu heads to bed
[17:12:45] <veverak> so at first I propably broke my system
[17:12:53] <veverak> and than I found out my backup sucks as hell
[17:12:55] <veverak> awesome
[17:12:57] <veverak> just awesome
[17:13:07] <deshipu> veverak: that's typical on a pi
[17:13:21] <deshipu> veverak: copy your user files and make a fresh system
[17:13:31] <veverak> that are in git
[17:13:40] * veverak can replicate it easily but it still sucks
[17:13:42] <deshipu> veverak: install/compile whatever you need on it, then make an .img of it
[17:13:51] <veverak> that I did last time
[17:13:58] <veverak> now I tried to use it
[17:14:01] <deshipu> veverak: use jhylands's power board to avoid that problem
[17:14:01] <veverak> and it failed
[17:14:07] <deshipu> or mount the filesystem read-only
[17:14:19] <deshipu> and only have some small partition for user files
[17:15:10] <veverak> hmm
[17:15:15] <deshipu> sometimes I wonder what does ext4 have that journal file for
[17:15:15] * veverak will have to think it through
[17:15:29] <deshipu> it should be robust against power loss with that
[17:15:45] <deshipu> but no, it still gets corrupted
[17:16:00] <deshipu> anyways, bed
[17:39:15] <jhylands> I just ordered a new version of my power board
[17:39:46] <jhylands> fixed a couple major problems and a few minor ones, added a few new things
[17:48:04] <emeraldgreen> jhylands cool, does it charge lipo?
[20:34:55] <Casper> rue_house: re: tig... looking online, I see a few ranges... DC- 30-50A, DC- 100-150A, DC+ 100-150A ... grrr
[20:36:13] <Hyratel> I thrifted one of these screens for ~ $7 the other day :D
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c00278911
[20:37:27] <Jak_o_Shadows> I wish those laptop LVDS things weren't so expensive
[20:37:53] <Hyratel> Jak_o_Shadows, ~$30 for a single one?
[20:38:00] <Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah
[20:38:04] <Hyratel> what's a comparable new monitor cost all-in?
[20:38:42] <Jak_o_Shadows> Most people are moving to laptops, I haven't bought a monitor for years :P
[20:39:56] <Hyratel> 'most people' (who don't need the processing power or servicability of a tower)
[20:40:29] <Hyratel> for me, servicability is key
[20:40:43] <Hyratel> because i get a lot of secondhand parts
[20:46:56] <Jak_o_Shadows> For me it's more cost
[20:47:18] <Jak_o_Shadows> Through I also feel sorta bad about using Laptops for home servers
[20:48:02] <Hyratel> you get way more performance per cost with desktops
[20:48:23] <Hyratel> the size is still a problem though
[20:48:54] <Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah, it is.
[20:49:12] <Jak_o_Shadows> That has come a concern for me recently
