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[03:06:29] <veverak> deshipu:
http://metabot.cc/ seen?
[03:09:15] <deshipu> yeah, I even had a pull request to their repo fixing their IK back when it was still called 'spidy'
[03:09:54] <deshipu> spidey
[03:12:16] <veverak> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1265766 nice :D
[03:12:43] <deshipu> 2dof :(
[03:13:00] <veverak> yeah, but still awesome :D
[03:13:49] <veverak> nah, that servos they use looks awesome :/
[03:14:32] <deshipu> and expensive
[03:16:55] <veverak> yeah
[03:29:26] <vicarion> 3d printed eh? what it needs are 8 legs, a spider like body, and massive size. just to make it more lovable
[03:42:35] <deshipu> why 8?
[03:43:56] <vicarion> because that's the traditional number for spiders
[03:44:27] <vicarion> the idea being to have it look like a giant spider and terrify people
[03:44:55] <vicarion> assuming the plastic parts didn't collapse under their own weight
[03:46:02] <deshipu> vicarion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfiHOpv6HtI
[03:48:26] <vicarion> sweet..how big is it?
[03:49:06] <deshipu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vVblGlIMgw
[03:49:07] <vicarion> we'll put some bristles and fangs on that puppy, and remove that light thing, it'll look real enough...most people have only a vague idea of what spiders look like anyway
[03:49:08] <deshipu> this big
[03:50:58] <vicarion> hmm...that's pretty good...but let's make it bigger...can you reinforce plastic parts with metal to make them stronger?
[03:51:33] <deshipu> better with carbon fiber
[03:51:42] <vicarion> actually what i really want to make is one of those giant extinct scorpions, or maybe a trilobite
[03:52:20] <vicarion> well, carbon fiber requires autoclaves, no? i want my creation to be buildable by anyone with a 3d printer
[03:52:51] <vicarion> humans are like that...soft flesh, reinforced by stronger bone
[03:53:28] <vicarion> but would it work with robots, where you have plastics encasing metal rods?
[03:54:04] <deshipu> autoclaves? why?
[03:54:14] <deshipu> just embed the fibers while you are printing
[03:54:20] <vicarion> don't you need to cure the resin?
[03:54:30] <deshipu> if you use resin, then yes
[03:54:38] <Hyratel> to get the strength, the fibers need to be a mesh, not a spool of string
[03:54:42] <deshipu> if you use plastic with embedded carbon fibers, then no
[03:55:06] <vicarion> i don't think that stuff is nearly as strong as real carbon fiber, although i'd love to be wrong
[03:55:13] <Hyratel> you only get intra-layer strength, and then only within a single track of the print head
[03:55:20] <deshipu> no, but stronger than just plastic
[03:55:40] <Hyratel> carbon fiber plastic is just as prone to layer-layer shearing and splitting as any other filament printing
[03:56:23] <vicarion> do we have any data on it?
[03:56:57] <Hyratel> your infill will be strong if you use a crosshatch pattern, but any forces that try to pull it apart on the layers or seams between tracks will see no benefit
[03:57:12] <Hyratel> look at the lay of the fibers
[03:57:21] <Hyratel> there is no fiber interconnect at seams
[03:57:26] <Hyratel> layer seams
[03:57:47] <Hyratel> carbon fiber lay-up involves making crossed layers
[03:57:56] <Hyratel> \\\\\\\\
[03:57:59] <Hyratel> ////////
[03:58:00] <vicarion> Hyratel: yeah, that's what i thought. it needs to be in that fabric stuff
[03:58:01] <Hyratel> etc
[03:58:08] <vicarion> and held fast by resin
[03:58:09] <deshipu> just plan your parts well :)
[03:58:12] <Hyratel> either fabric or layer by layer crosshatch
[03:58:28] <Hyratel> CF tubes are lattice, not woven
[03:58:29] <deshipu> so that the stress is along the right axis
[03:58:34] <vicarion> Hyratel: so do you have any ideas for increasing the rigidity of 3d printed parts?
[03:58:42] <Hyratel> rigidity?
[03:58:50] <Hyratel> use the right infill for your part.
[03:59:00] <Hyratel> there is nothing you can do for the layer shear
[03:59:28] <Hyratel> intralayer strength is dependent on the interlayer bond quality
[03:59:38] <vicarion> adding metal reinforcement won't help?
[03:59:55] <Hyratel> vicarion, metal reinforcements are not inherent to the print
[04:00:02] <Hyratel> so that's outside scope
[04:00:04] <deshipu> yeah, pour a bushel of bolts on it while it's printing ;)
[04:00:51] <vicarion> i know, but inserting metal rods into empty spaces in the 3d printed parts sounds easy, my question was, would it make much difference from a structural viewpoint?
[04:01:08] <hypodyne> howdy
[04:01:17] <Hyratel> there's several forces to consider
[04:01:22] <vicarion> animals do that with bone, so why not robots?
[04:02:09] <Hyratel> layer-layer compression ; shear ; cantilever (flexing) ; tension
[04:02:33] <Hyratel> each of those requires a different approach
[04:03:05] <Hyratel> for compression, loadbearing pins would help, if they're in the right places
[04:03:07] <SpeedEvil> Adding metal reinforcement can preload the part in ways that make layer shear not an issue
[04:03:21] <deshipu> vicarion: you won't get very far trying to blindly copy animals
[04:03:39] <Hyratel> for shearing forces, you want strong tunnels through the part that can transfer the shearing force to the pins
[04:03:52] <SpeedEvil> Or just give up.
[04:04:00] <SpeedEvil> And use lost PLA casting of nice aluminium
[04:04:04] <Hyratel> for flexion, it's a combination of compression, shear and tension
[04:04:13] <vicarion> deshipu: i'll go as far as i can
[04:04:31] <Hyratel> so you want to know which way your forces will be and maximise the strength
[04:04:34] <vicarion> is there some equivalent to loadbearing pins in the long bones of animals?
[04:05:02] <Hyratel> so say you've got a 2" OD tube, 1/2" walls
[04:05:04] <vicarion> let's imagine we're doing legs and our main loads are compressive, layer to layer
[04:05:07] <Hyratel> 6" long
[04:05:19] <Hyratel> vicarion, there's also flexion
[04:05:31] <Hyratel> vicarion, the bones *are* the loadbearing pins
[04:05:57] <Hyratel> ok lemme revise my example
[04:06:07] <vicarion> how do forces get transfered to them from soft tissue?
[04:06:09] <Hyratel> 12" long, 2" OD, 1/4" wall
[04:06:23] <Hyratel> with pads
[04:06:36] <Hyratel> rather, directly
[04:06:40] <Hyratel> look at your fingers
[04:06:49] <Hyratel> there's no padding on the back
[04:07:08] <Hyratel> but on the palm, there's some muscles, a bunch of tendons, and skin
[04:07:10] <vicarion> i am. i don't see bits sticking out perpendicular to the bones all along the bone shaft
[04:07:14] <Hyratel> also fatty padding
[04:07:25] <Hyratel> I never said perpendicular
[04:07:44] <SpeedEvil> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Carpal-Tunnel.svg
[04:07:47] <SpeedEvil> beautiful
[04:08:17] <deshipu> very bad design :)
[04:08:30] <deshipu> that's why so many people have problems with too much typing
[04:08:42] <deshipu> putting nerves where there is stress
[04:08:54] <vicarion> guys, we'd all better stop using computers. right now. forever
[04:09:14] <Hyratel> http://corewalking.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Cross_section_of_wrist-polso-mediano-tunnel-carpo.jpg
[04:09:17] <Hyratel> vicarion,
[04:09:39] <Hyratel> vicarion, you asked how forces are transfered to bone
[04:09:46] <SpeedEvil> tendons
[04:09:51] <Hyratel> tendons are bonded directly to the bone
[04:09:51] <SpeedEvil> which insert into muscles
[04:09:58] <vicarion> yeah, i was thinking of long bones
[04:10:08] <Hyratel> 'floating'
[04:10:19] <Hyratel> the skin, fat etc is not actually bonded to the bone
[04:10:36] <vicarion> that's how muscles attach to bone. is most the body weight muscle?
[04:10:39] <Hyratel> pinch the skin on your fingertip
[04:10:48] <Hyratel> water weight actually
[04:11:00] <deshipu> mostly water in fat
[04:11:12] <Hyratel> but most of the body's bulk outside the torso core organs is muscle
[04:11:47] <Hyratel> bone, muscle, fat, skin, from innermost to outermost
[04:12:31] <deshipu> vicarion: you can find all those answers on wikipedia
[04:12:43] <vicarion> i'm thinking there's a lot of weight in the torso
[04:13:03] <vicarion> and that the ribcage looks like long loading pins sticking out from the spine
[04:13:05] <deshipu> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=human+skeleton+weight&dataset=
[04:13:07] <SpeedEvil> deshipu: There is not much water in fat, unless you mean as hydrogen
[04:13:17] <hypodyne> Has anyone tried building an InMoov robot?
[04:14:37] <vicarion> hypodyne: no, but it's 3d printed right? and it can hold its own weight without collapsing
[04:15:24] <hypodyne> yes.. as far as I know it doesnt have legs yet.. so it can hold its torso upright.. wave its arms
[04:15:26] <deshipu> vicarion: it doesn't have legs?
[04:15:39] <vicarion> not that i've noticed
[04:15:59] <vicarion> i think there's been some talk of building legs
[04:16:01] <deshipu> so no, it can't hold its own weight
[04:16:19] <deshipu> only the weight of its hands
[04:16:27] <hypodyne> might try to build a dalek type base so it can move around on wheels
[04:16:31] <vicarion> it does seem to be a bit of an oversight on the designers part, building a humanoid robot and forgetting the bottom half
[04:16:39] <deshipu> hypodyne: rockets!
[04:16:45] <hypodyne> lol
[04:17:04] <deshipu> vicarion: yeah, some users here would start with the bottom part
[04:17:06] <hypodyne> bit of a fire hazard when doing the house work
[04:17:30] <vicarion> indeed :P
[04:17:52] <deshipu> I suppose it depends on what you want it to do: work or look
[04:18:11] <hypodyne> not even sure if it has to be hooked up to power yet.. or can it run off a battery
[04:19:23] <hypodyne> guess I will find out when I get my 3d printer working.
[04:21:00] <deshipu> vicarion:
http://smartdoll.jp
[04:21:01] <SpeedEvil> vicarion: there is some important stuff in the bottom part.
[04:22:10] <deshipu> vicarion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU57vhEg7hM
[04:23:09] <vicarion> deshipu: i like, but they don't look 3d printable
[04:24:42] <deshipu> why not?
[04:25:35] <hypodyne> looks cool. although it looks like just a doll
[04:26:14] <deshipu> not sure what you mean by that
[04:26:33] <hypodyne> its not a robot
[04:26:43] <deshipu> what is a robot?
[04:27:02] <deshipu> if that's not a robot, then inmoov is not a robot either
[04:27:06] <deshipu> or that spider I linked
[04:27:55] <hypodyne> yeah.. just watching the video..
[04:28:38] <deshipu> ah, yeah, what they sell is just a doll, for now
[04:28:42] <deshipu> the video is of a prototype
[04:29:05] <vicarion> i like the dancing storm trooper with the smart doll on his shoulder
[04:29:48] <hypodyne> ahh. they did well to make the prototype move., with something so thin you would need small motors
[04:29:48] <deshipu> I think they want them to replace cellphones at some point
[04:30:08] <deshipu> with a siri-like interface
[04:31:04] <vicarion> ...and they're making a 1.2 meter tall version
[04:31:25] <deshipu> but that one is just a doll too
[04:31:40] <vicarion> ...I was specifically forbidden to sell this technology to any military body.
[04:31:41] <vicarion> I do however believe strongly that humans have the right to defend themselves so I have programmed Smart Doll Plus to also be able to deal with burglars but deal with them in such a manner that they do not come to harm - I felt it was important to obey the 3 laws of robotics which are..
[04:32:11] <vicarion> goes on to talk about flame throwers. this will be awesome
[04:32:28] <deshipu> this is mostly show
[04:32:37] <deshipu> to make the "just dolls" sell
[04:32:52] <vicarion> ahh, they're using stereolithography for 3d printing, not fdm
[04:33:00] <hypodyne> 4 laws of robotics
[04:35:27] <deshipu> 3
[04:35:38] <hypodyne> asimov added another one
[04:35:43] <deshipu> also, that's fiction
[04:35:53] <deshipu> it sounds nice, but it's impossible
[04:36:00] <SpeedEvil> Laws of robotics don't work.
[04:36:07] <hypodyne> good fiction though
[04:36:13] <deshipu> especially since even humans can't agree what "harm" means
[04:36:13] <SpeedEvil> They need to understand what the world is, and what humans are.
[04:36:38] <SpeedEvil> Indeed - many of the stories go into exactly that dichotomy - with ridiculously more powerful robots than are possible
[04:37:04] <SpeedEvil> The laws in the books are very much not presented as perfect
[04:37:13] <SpeedEvil> that's the whole point, if they were, it'd be rather boring
[04:38:02] <veverak> not to mention implementation flaws :)
[04:38:13] <deshipu> hypodyne: what did he add? "so help me God"?
[04:41:21] <vicarion> 4th law - it's ok to kill lots of people if you think it's for the best. basically, the same rule politicians have been using to defend wars forever
[04:41:45] <deshipu> it's ok to kill people
[04:41:47] <deshipu> really
[04:42:07] <deshipu> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Tz0jh270BOA/T1Kj8TNkpXI/AAAAAAAAA5Q/viPar3WHw0g/s1600/Bender%2Bcampaign.jpg
[04:42:42] <deshipu> that's why I'm building robots
[04:43:03] <hypodyne> I am not sure.. I think it was just to clear up a loop hole someone pointed out.
[04:43:27] <deshipu> the stupid cart and tracks problem
[04:43:32] <hypodyne> the 3 laws are clear enough for me.
[04:44:13] <vicarion> yeah, humans have had their turn. time to let the anime dolls take over
[04:44:24] <deshipu> hypodyne: it was basically the "can you kill one human to save 10 humans"
[04:44:44] <hypodyne> ahhh..
[04:45:10] <deshipu> which doesn't make sense once you realize that all the human morality is just a synchronization algorithm and is based on signalling, not on outcomes
[04:46:08] <vicarion> what if the robot can pull a toddler out from the path of a speeding car and push a criminal in front of it? does that count?
[04:46:28] <deshipu> and the easiest way to be innocent, no matter the situation, is to not know what you are doing
[04:46:33] <deshipu> which robots do by default
[04:47:30] <robopal> have you seen the computerphile video about the three laws?
[04:48:02] <deshipu> I think I did, it's beating the dead horse, really
[04:48:14] <robopal> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PKx3kS7f4A
[04:48:15] <hypodyne> ahh no.. but I should watch that
[06:58:52] <spacer> Hello
[07:01:46] <deshipu> hi spacer
[07:02:03] <deshipu> any progress on the climbing?
[07:03:13] <spacer> I think my pi is crazy
[07:03:33] <spacer> He doesn't like any of my ideas
[07:03:50] <deshipu> as in, raspberry pi?
[07:04:23] <spacer> Principal investigator
[07:04:35] <spacer> Of the project I'm working on
[07:04:52] <deshipu> does he have to like them?
[07:05:12] <deshipu> I mean, it's hard to argue with a working prototype...
[07:05:40] <spacer> I need the funds to build a prototype
[07:06:55] <deshipu> ah-ha!
[07:08:03] <deshipu> so what did you try so far?
[07:10:56] <spacer> Just looking for other ways to climb
[07:13:29] <deshipu> I mean, which ideas he didn't like?
[07:14:04] <spacer> The microspines
[07:14:42] <deshipu> well, I wouldn't expect those to work on a tree
[07:14:46] <spacer> I really think it will work
[07:15:01] <deshipu> can you do some small-scale test somehow?
[07:15:14] <spacer> Will see
[07:15:59] <deshipu> have you considered doing it like the coconut crab? :)
[07:16:08] <deshipu> just pinching the tree hard
[07:18:30] <spacer> Was contemplating it
[08:15:33] <jhylands> deshipu, here's the power board:
https://app.box.com/s/w1xwknjv773wfdrmtbgc8vp6ij2khapl
[08:15:52] <jhylands> I messed up one of the P-channel MOSFETs, so I have to jumper-mount it
[08:26:57] <spacer> Has anyone tried building a jarvis type ai
[08:27:01] <spacer> ?
[08:28:25] <jhylands> spacer - if you google "jarvis type ai" (without the quotes) you'll see
[08:29:20] <spacer> I mean does anyone have any personal experience. I want to try and build one
[08:35:43] <anonnumberanon> spacer,
http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-JARVIS-Like-AI-Assistant
[08:35:50] <anonnumberanon> just do it and tell us how it went
[08:39:48] <spacer> Do you know of any open source voice recognition software
[08:39:54] <deshipu_> there is siri...
[08:40:14] <deshipu_> spacer: there are some publick online services you could use
[08:40:18] <deshipu_> spacer: google has one
[08:40:47] <jhylands> spacer - ask google - really
[08:40:55] <spacer> I want to integrate one with cleverbot
[08:41:11] <jhylands> there are piles of open source speech recognition systems out there
[08:42:15] <spacer> You guys heard of sci-fi.io?
[08:42:37] <spacer> sci-hub.io
[08:43:05] <deshipu_> no
[08:43:25] <jhylands> it certainly isn't the first website to do that
[08:43:35] <jhylands> "the first website in the world to provide mass & public access to research papers"
[08:44:14] <jhylands> citeseer has been doing it for years
[08:44:26] <jhylands> google scholar has as well, although not as long as citeseer
[08:44:48] <spacer> Yeah but you get paid papers as well
[08:44:52] <jhylands> heh
[08:45:06] <jhylands> on the about page: "the first pirate website in the world to provide mass and public access to tens of millions of research papers"
[08:45:19] <jhylands> funny, missing a word on the main page description
[08:45:31] <spacer> You just have to put in the links and any paper you wish access to is yours
[08:45:36] <deshipu_> arrr! shiver me timbers!
[08:46:42] <deshipu_> it always makes me laugh when someone calls the normal thing that people have always been doing "pirating"
[08:47:07] <jhylands> its pretty funny that the site (once you do a search) attempts to look like google scholar
[08:47:28] <jhylands> well, I ended up on a page with some russian
[08:47:42] <spacer> Yeah
[08:47:54] <spacer> Click the obvious button
[08:47:56] <jhylands> "This article does not have access to this proxy"
[08:48:09] <spacer> Damn
[08:48:39] <jhylands> I was searching for this paper:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/abstractAuthors.jsp?tp=&arnumber=7158825&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D7158825
[08:48:59] <jhylands> I can buy it through IEEE for $13 (which I'll probably end up doing)
[08:53:16] <spacer> Guess it doesn't work for all papers
[08:53:30] <spacer> Worked on science direct for me
[08:54:37] <jhylands> that is a relatively recent paper though
[08:54:40] <jhylands> just last summer
[09:00:04] <jhylands> I just love their search url
[09:00:21] <jhylands> scholar.google.com.secure.sci-hub.io
[09:02:27] <spacer> Strange I got the paper
[09:02:39] <spacer> You want it?
[09:02:48] <jhylands> sure
[09:02:54] <spacer> Email
[09:02:57] <jhylands> jhylands@gmail.com
[09:05:44] <spacer> Is it the right one
[09:06:01] <jhylands> yep - thanks!
[09:07:03] <spacer> Np
[09:25:28] <spacer> You planning on making a uav?
[09:25:48] <jhylands> no, I'm designing a tether system for a UAV for a client
[09:26:29] <jhylands> I bought a UAV to play with
[09:27:19] <spacer> Cool where do you work
[09:27:42] <jhylands> I work for Mozilla, but I'm on a 3-month sabbatical
[09:27:51] <jhylands> doing a contract for a company in South Africa
[09:34:40] <spacer> Are you a software engineer
[09:35:00] <jhylands> well, yes, but lately I do more hardware than software
[10:23:51] <spacer> Chek out wade
[10:26:35] <spacer> Virtual assistant
[10:31:01] <jhylands> Google now can do just about everything they showed in their demo video
[10:38:15] <spacer> Do you know what language Google now is written in
[10:40:51] <jhylands> probably Go
[12:03:36] <deshipu_> "Google" is a company, not a single application, they use many different languages for different things
[12:03:56] <deshipu_> even the search service is composed of many small applications written in different languages
[12:23:10] <jhylands> deshipu, he was asking about Google Now
[12:27:35] <deshipu> that is even more small services
[13:38:26] <jhylands> best first person shooter video ever -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p747PrxmZJ4
[13:48:23] <robopal> lol
[18:34:09] <robotustra> how do you think, do aliens monitor IRC channels?
[18:54:48] <Snert_> I swear some of the channels are inhabited by reptilians
[18:57:32] <Casper> quite possible
[20:53:17] <robotustra> who told that aliens are reptiloids? it's urban legend
[21:08:21] <mrdata> robotustra, that's david icke shit
[21:09:27] <mrdata> stuff he worked out after being hit too many times on the head with a soccer ball
[21:34:41] <Casper> robotustra: prove it that aliens are not reptiloids!<
[21:37:27] <robotustra> I'm not reptiloid
[21:37:37] <robotustra> :)
[21:42:09] <Casper> still not a proof :D
[21:43:28] <robotustra> we are all aliens
