Back
[00:34:25] <DagoRed> zzz64: fyi, the moment of torque is the same across the whole air craft. Surprisingly the center of gravity does not matter as the control system will automatically compensate for that.
[00:34:38] <Jak_o_Shadows> http://jak-o-shadows.github.io/picturedump/3dp/sg/1.jpg, http://jak-o-shadows.github.io/picturedump/3dp/sg/2.jpg, http://jak-o-shadows.github.io/picturedump/3dp/sg/3.jpg, http://jak-o-shadows.github.io/picturedump/3dp/sg/4.jpg, http://jak-o-shadows.github.io/picturedump/3dp/sg/5.jpg, http://jak-o-shadows.github.io/picturedump/3dp/sg/6.jpg, http://jak-o-shadows.github.io/picturedump/3dp/sg/7.jpg, http://jak-o-shadows.github.io/pic
[01:00:22] <Hyratel> use a gallery forgodsake
[01:01:02] <Jak_o_Shadows> haha.
[01:01:11] <Jak_o_Shadows> This is only temporary, I'll write it up later
[01:47:46] <anonnumberanon> Jak_o_Shadows, how will you command the platform at the top of that device?
[01:48:05] <Jak_o_Shadows> I won't command it
[01:48:07] <Jak_o_Shadows> It's a sensor
[01:51:16] <Jak_o_Shadows> I have a spare atmega 2560 to read stuff in
[02:08:08] <anonnumberanon> how will you move the platform at the top?
[02:08:23] <anonnumberanon> It needs to move for your sensor to give any kind of readout.
[02:23:27] <Jak_o_Shadows> Using my hand
[02:33:41] <DagoRed> I'm assuming Jak_o_Shadows is using the analog input on the pots to tell where they are located.
[02:33:51] <DagoRed> Problem... They need to be calibrated.
[02:39:31] <anonnumberanon> so you're gonna measure you're heands orientation? can't possibly be that silly :)
[02:40:11] <anonnumberanon> nvm im acting touch
[02:40:13] <anonnumberanon> tough
[02:40:37] <anonnumberanon> heh i don't can't really thingk of a way to calibrate it either
[02:40:58] <anonnumberanon> except for good results you could use an IMU
[02:41:41] <DagoRed> .... Push it to the extremes and measure the values. Interpolate from there.
[02:42:03] <DagoRed> If it's not linear, look up tables. If linear, math or look up tables.
[02:42:39] <DagoRed> It is no different than late 80's early 90's joysticks for computers.
[02:42:56] <DagoRed> I bet you don't remember calibrating those do you anonnumberanon?
[02:45:22] <anonnumberanon> calibrating pots or an IMU?
[02:49:07] <DagoRed> Pots
[02:49:41] <DagoRed> An imu traditionally doesn't need to be calibrated. Gyros do need to be not moved to initialize however.
[02:50:38] <DagoRed> That also assumes its only accelerometers and gyroscopes.
[02:51:28] <anonnumberanon> I need to calibrate my motors according to the position of the body that they are in. Also a left foot and a right foot will not be installed exactly in the same position so need to calibrate for that
[02:52:11] <anonnumberanon> I'll do it by eye.
[02:52:15] <Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah, pretty much
[02:52:51] <Jak_o_Shadows> TBH, haven't started the software side
[02:53:53] <anonnumberanon> Yeah better have a strong object that works well mechanically before daring to program it.
[02:54:01] <anonnumberanon> You're doing good imo.
[02:54:44] <Jak_o_Shadows> I have most of the mathsy software and visualisatoin done.
[02:54:52] <Jak_o_Shadows> Just need to get the values and shove em to the computer
[08:35:56] <robotust1a> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXXikLMXhtY
[08:36:47] <robotustra_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG442JPwkPo
[08:38:07] <robotustra_> all are good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOsV0JSInZI&list=PLE0EDDFB62FEA32EA&index=6
[08:41:46] <robotustra_> somebody wanted robot climbing robot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct8avh34zx4
[08:44:02] <jhylands> Roz's new head:
https://app.box.com/s/vbj5vmr67pw32jbk8j33sjgbkfelrqyg
[08:45:36] <robotustra_> laser and receiver?
[08:45:45] <jhylands> yeah, its a LIDAR-Lite
[08:45:51] <robotustra_> and side sensors?
[08:46:07] <jhylands> Those are the new smaller Sharp IR sensors from Pololu
[08:46:29] <robotustra_> proximity sensors
[08:46:40] <jhylands> yeah, they are analog range sensors
[08:46:54] <jhylands> https://www.pololu.com/product/2476
[08:47:19] <jhylands> that reminds me, I need to remove a resistor to convert them from 5V to 3.3V
[08:47:30] <robotustra_> i think similar ones are in neato robot
[08:48:13] <jhylands> the Neato actually has a spinning lidar
[08:48:51] <robotustra_> there are a lot of other sensors on the fromt of the robot
[08:49:02] <robotustra_> and on the bottom
[08:49:08] <jhylands> oh okay, I've never seen one up close
[08:49:24] <robotustra_> to prevent fall down from stairs
[08:49:40] <robotustra_> to walk along with wall
[08:51:05] <deshipu> there is even a sensor inside the brushed
[08:51:07] <deshipu> brushes
[08:51:21] <deshipu> for detecting where it's especially dirty
[08:51:27] <deshipu> not sure how it works, though
[08:51:30] <deshipu> looks like a piezo
[08:53:29] <jhylands> damn, gotta run - talk to you all later
[08:53:57] <deshipu> have fun
[08:54:18] <deshipu> I should really adjust and trim the servos on my robot
[08:54:24] <deshipu> but I'm too lazy
[08:54:42] <deshipu> also, figure out which servo is on which pin
[08:55:51] <z64555> I'm smiling too much at pololu's voltage regulator page
[09:00:06] <deshipu> why?
[09:00:25] <deshipu> just get a chinese XM1584-based regulator and done :P
[09:01:27] <z64555> 5 years ago, they didn't have switch-mode regulators. We had to make due with the simpler transistor based regulators or make our own
[09:01:49] * z64555 is starting to sound old
[09:02:11] <deshipu> and it was uphill both ways
[09:02:25] <deshipu> in snow
[09:02:40] <z64555> figuratively, yes.
[09:02:53] <z64555> the engineering department was quite frugal to acquisitions
[09:06:05] <z64555> (yes, I've heard that joke before :P)
[09:12:12] <deshipu> everyone did, it's one of the better Monty Python sketches
[09:19:01] <z64555> trying to come up with some better engine mounts for my quadrotor, I don't think a threaded D shaft is a good thing
[09:21:54] <z64555> I may end up folding and going with the square tubing like everybody else is doing
[09:53:45] <LiohAu> hey guys
[09:55:32] <robotustra_> bonjour
[09:57:02] <LiohAu> I'm looking at the TV where they are talking about terrosists attacks in france, and I was thinking about an object that could be really usefull, but I'm wonder if it's feasible
[09:57:31] <LiohAu> A kind of exoskleton with a single arm that could stop a bullet that is being shoot on you
[09:57:34] <LiohAu> like a shiled
[09:57:36] <LiohAu> shield*
[09:58:26] <LiohAu> from what I read, a bullet speed can reach 1km/s
[09:58:48] <LiohAu> but sound speed is only 1/3 of that, so detecting the bullet with sound seems impossible
[09:59:40] <LiohAu> I don't think cameras would be accurate enough for a small object like that (and moving so fast)
[09:59:49] <robotustra_> shield of armor is much simpler and more effective
[10:00:13] <LiohAu> yes, but it's too heavy and kevlar is really expensive
[10:00:24] <LiohAu> so nobody wears them
[10:01:10] <LiohAu> but if we think that humans in the future (10, 20 years) will have an exoskleton, maybe it would be a smart feature to invent
[10:02:32] <LiohAu> anyway, I was just speaking about it for fun as I already have enough projects to take care about :)
[10:05:14] <LiohAu> I have to go, but I thought it would be a fun sci-fi topic to address here :)
[10:14:18] <z64555> heh. infeasible indeed
[10:15:04] <z64555> kevlar's pricing has dropped down over the years. the problem is that ammunition's capability to puncture it has improved, too
[10:23:13] <SpeedEvil> You can in principle dodge bullets at only modest distances, ifyou can react perfectly to them
[10:23:41] <SpeedEvil> If you can generate 10g,and you can determine the exact trajectory
[10:23:59] <SpeedEvil> It's rather easier to move a 'bat' around
[10:24:11] <SpeedEvil> Tracking is of course hard
[10:32:22] <robotustra_> estimated the number of motors needed for my arm
[10:32:38] <robotustra_> the answer is 24
[10:34:13] * z64555 counted 20 joints in his biological arm
[10:34:45] <robotustra_> some joints have 2 DOF
[10:35:04] <robotustra_> did you see my arm?
[10:35:34] <z64555> no, I'm out of bandwidth for this month :(
[10:35:40] <z64555> stupid verizon internet
[10:43:05] <SpeedEvil> z64555: the arm has 23 muscles
[10:44:07] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_muscles_of_the_human_body#Arm
[10:44:12] <robotustra_> SpeedEvil: where did you find it?
[10:44:32] <SpeedEvil> Some are probably not unique though
[10:45:14] <robotustra_> I got a list of something
[10:49:19] <robotustra_> I counted the number of motors I need for palm and elbow, not highed than elbow joint
[10:49:42] <deshipu> you have a separate muscle for every hair on your arm
[10:50:17] <robotustra_> https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12507106_1193552434006208_8110251610537459037_n.jpg?oh=415f8dc62c3f266fe54bf95c0cc199ab&oe=5708DDAB
[10:51:09] <robotustra_> deshipu: not all of them will be pulled by motor, some of them will be pulled by spring or rubber
[10:51:32] <SpeedEvil> robotustra_: the arm has several dependant axes
[10:51:45] <SpeedEvil> robotustra_: there are a number of motions that you simply can't make
[10:51:58] <deshipu> I'm just trying to say that copying nature in this case doesn't make much sense -- for nature another separate muscle is cheap
[10:52:14] <deshipu> as long as you don't need to control them individually
[10:52:28] <SpeedEvil> For example, you can't flex the last joint of your fingers at all without flexing the second last joint
[10:52:43] <deshipu> for us, controlling each actuator individually is cheap, but the actuators themselves are expensive
[10:53:03] <robotustra_> deshipu: that's the chalenge for me - I need to make control of 24 motors in sync
[10:53:22] <robotustra_> SpeedEvil: it's all details
[10:53:24] <SpeedEvil> robotustra_: why is that a challenge?
[10:53:30] <deshipu> just design an arm that makes more sense for your materials
[10:53:34] <SpeedEvil> robotustra_: do you mean from a hardware or software aspect?
[10:53:38] <SpeedEvil> deshipu: quite
[10:54:27] <robotustra_> deshipu: it's the next step when I will work on skin sensors
[10:54:29] <SpeedEvil> The hand is very,very flexible with many ways to do almost every task.
[10:54:46] <robotustra_> SpeedEvil: hardware and software
[10:54:57] <SpeedEvil> this sort-of-implies that you can reduce the degrees of actuation, with little effect.
[10:55:33] <robotustra_> SpeedEvil: I try to comply as much human motions as possible
[10:55:58] <robotustra_> to provide enough of dexterity
[10:56:05] <SpeedEvil> Whoever comes up with a replacement articulated skeleton for realdolls will make a mint.
[10:56:30] <SpeedEvil> I wish there were bone magnets.
[10:57:11] <SpeedEvil> It would make augmentation exoskeletons so much easier
[11:00:11] <SpeedEvil> Things you never knew:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_muscles_of_the_human_body ' gluteus maximus muscle ... chief antigravity muscle'
[11:01:31] <z64555> bone magnets?
[11:01:59] <SpeedEvil> z64555: Magnets that can pull on bone through the skin to fix exoskeleton components
[11:02:13] <z64555> oh
[11:02:47] <z64555> well... you could drill some metal plates into the bone
[11:02:59] <z64555> and have the exo with the magnets on them
[11:03:21] <SpeedEvil> Not enough force in reality
[11:03:27] <SpeedEvil> even neglecting the difficulty
[11:03:46] <z64555> and the fact you'd probably break the bone
[11:03:55] <z64555> but you can do it!
[11:04:23] <robotustra_> exoskeleton should not be attached to endoskeleton
[11:04:34] <robotustra_> no need
[11:05:03] <SpeedEvil> robotustra_: if it isn't, that implies a whole body suit in many cases,or nearly so
[11:05:16] <robotustra_> but it's ok
[11:05:17] <deshipu> SpeedEvil: you actually have to learn all those when you learn to draw properly
[11:05:34] <deshipu> SpeedEvil: well, not the names, but the layout
[11:05:44] <robotustra_> who cates about suit if exoskeleton carries it
[11:05:46] <SpeedEvil> Because otherwise you are trying to offload the load to the skeleton in portions of anatomy that don't usually take the load
[11:06:16] <SpeedEvil> robotustra_: For disabled/elderly assistance purposes,not walking around like iron-man purposes
[11:06:47] <robotustra_> SpeedEvil: disabled do not need to use exoskeleton imho
[11:07:03] <robotustra_> they can ruin themself faster
[11:07:05] <SpeedEvil> robotustra_: sure they do
[11:07:22] <SpeedEvil> robotustra_: sitting all the time worsens a lot of conditions.
[11:07:34] <SpeedEvil> But many people don't have balance or strength to stand
[11:07:58] <robotustra_> I don't think they will live longer lives and happer in exosuits
[11:08:13] <robotustra_> happier
[11:08:25] <SpeedEvil> If it enables you to go out and meet people, yes, ithelps.
[11:08:50] <SpeedEvil> The exact same argument can be made for why wheelchairs are bad.
[11:11:26] <SpeedEvil> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2384930/Robotic-exoskeleton-help-rehabilitate-disabled-people-passes-safety-tests--paving-way-sale-UK.html
[11:11:30] <SpeedEvil> this sort of stuff
[11:12:04] <robotustra_> SpeedEvil: who will pay for such exiskeleton?
[11:12:08] <robotustra_> disapled?
[11:12:22] <robotustra_> where he or she will get money for that?
[11:12:24] <SpeedEvil> If it can enable them to continue working it may be a very worthwhile investment
[11:12:43] <SpeedEvil> Plus - a large fraction of the cost is due tosmall quantities
[11:13:16] <robotustra_> SpeedEvil: let's say I'm not disabled - do I need this exosuit?
[11:13:22] <SpeedEvil> No
[11:13:31] <robotustra_> but why?
[11:13:41] <SpeedEvil> there are a shitload of people in wheelchairs.
[11:13:46] <robotustra_> I would like to run 40-50 km/h
[11:13:51] <robotustra_> without car
[11:13:59] <SpeedEvil> Well,that's a completely different issue
[11:15:23] <robotustra_> could you tell me what is the percentage of people in wheelchairs who could recover with exoskeleton?
[11:15:42] <SpeedEvil> The question is misguided.
[11:15:44] <robotustra_> of total amount wheelchared people
[11:15:57] <robotustra_> let's say 20%
[11:16:04] <SpeedEvil> 'recover' implies their disease state will get better.
[11:16:25] <robotustra_> I mean recover to the extent to get rid of chair
[11:16:30] <robotustra_> completely
[11:16:32] <SpeedEvil> The suit however may help to slow progression, improve mental and physical health - by being able to get out and talk to people.
[11:16:52] <SpeedEvil> Well, by definition pretty much all, other than the cognitively disabled.
[11:17:25] <robotustra_> as for me I'll see no difference between guy in wheel chair and the guy in aid skeleton
[11:17:54] <SpeedEvil> Except the guy in the exoskeleton can do a _lot_ more socially.
[11:18:01] <robotustra_> SpeedEvil: I think you are not too deep into the question to give right answers
[11:18:26] <SpeedEvil> Wheelchairs are very limiting, and the sitting posture is not good for health.
[11:18:27] <robotustra_> I would investigate dipper to understand the need of exosuits for disabled
[11:18:34] <SpeedEvil> I am disabled.
[11:18:42] <robotustra_> ok
[11:18:47] <SpeedEvil> I have considered trying to apply for an electric wheelchair.
[11:18:49] <robotustra_> Are you in wheelchar?
[11:19:15] <robotustra_> are your arms working?
[11:19:25] <SpeedEvil> I do not have the physical strength to wheel one round, and don't have anyone to aid.
[11:19:41] <SpeedEvil> It is a complex problem, which can be summed up as no.
[11:19:46] <robotustra_> distrophy?
[11:20:12] <SpeedEvil> Chronic fatigue syndrome.
[11:20:43] <SpeedEvil> I'm often wobbly enough I can't get up, or stand for long. Arms are certainly not strong enough to wheel me any distance.
[11:21:25] <robotustra_> but can you make your own wheel chair?
[11:21:36] <SpeedEvil> What?
[11:22:29] <SpeedEvil> A wheelchair is very limited in some situations. It requires an adapted environment which is not always in place.
[11:22:56] <robotustra_> ok, I have to go, talk later a bit about it
[12:53:03] <deshipu> hmm, can't get that tiny core linux to boot properly :/
[13:25:41] <rue_shop3> what arch?
[13:26:18] <deshipu> arm6
[13:26:38] <deshipu> nevermind, I just tried to search on their phpbb-based forum
[13:26:47] <deshipu> and it told me I don't have the right to do it
[13:26:57] <robotustra_> fock
[13:27:00] <deshipu> so I decided I don't want to have anything to do with that community
[13:27:10] <deshipu> installing archlinux now :)
[13:27:17] <robotustra_> all my pla parts on the base have cracks
[13:27:29] <rue_shop3> not the sides?
[13:27:29] <deshipu> ugh
[13:27:33] <rue_shop3> robotustra, ?
[13:27:43] <robotustra_> what sides?
[13:27:53] <rue_shop3> robotustra, were they just printed or are they old?
[13:28:15] <rue_shop3> robotustra, is it the bottom of the print that has the cracks that you were just talking about or is it the sides of the print
[13:30:08] <robotustra_> actually not all
[13:30:39] <robotustra_> it's good, it means that I have to redesign them, because they where inter the stress
[13:30:47] <robotustra_> bolted too hard
[13:32:08] <robotustra_> may be have to make it a bit massive
[13:34:07] * deshipu supresses a mum joke
[13:34:25] <robotustra_> deshipu: ?
[13:34:30] <robotustra_> what joke?
[13:34:53] <robotustra_> it's quite simple to fix
[13:35:07] <deshipu> nevermind
[13:35:12] <robotustra_> redisign 2 parts only
[14:00:33] <robotustra_> so, Hatchbox PLA is shitty
[14:00:50] <robotustra_> that's my conclusion, it's cracky
[14:00:55] <deshipu> who would have thunk
[14:06:18] <robotustra_> I
[14:06:26] <robotustra_> 120 -> 220
[14:06:35] <robotustra_> 2kWt
[15:13:05] <Hyratel> I need to attach charging leads to a phone, but the cutouts to clip onto the spring pads are too small for any of the gator clips I have on hand, and I don't want to solder to them. anyone have a suggestion>?
[15:15:58] <robopal> i used cloth pins in the past to jammed them between the thin metal pins on the connector and the plastic casing
[15:16:25] <robopal> not very stable or safe, but if you jam them really good and apply some hot glue...
[15:16:28] <robopal> ;p
[15:18:23] <deshipu> Hyratel: find and buy the original plug for that
[15:18:40] <deshipu> Hyratel: if it's an old phone, then you might be able to buy an old charger for it cheaply
[15:19:21] <Hyratel> it's the inductive charging pad connector contacts for a Galaxy S3
[15:21:27] <deshipu> I'm sure you can get a charger on aliexpress
[15:31:25] <Hyratel> my benchtop PSU isn't a controlled type. just a small variac model
[15:31:43] <Hyratel> small as in, 3Amp
[15:49:10] <robotustra_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5esLllaR81E
[16:30:51] <Hyratel> deshipu, meh
[16:30:59] <robotustra_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSJY79ZXQMg
[22:12:56] * robotustra_ musik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuoWQ-gN0-U
[22:14:35] <robotustra_> eine kleine nacht musik
[22:26:08] <anonnumberanon> with the buck converters I have i don't really see the point of a benchtop PSU
[22:32:35] <z64555> hmm?
[22:33:15] <robotustra_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TPLiTb-0KU
[22:37:03] <anonnumberanon> I like that a lot.
[22:37:19] <robotustra_> what?
[22:38:54] <robotustra_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uee_mcxvrw&t=18s
[22:39:27] <robotustra_> NSFM
[22:40:52] <anonnumberanon> heh
[22:40:57] <anonnumberanon> my favorite band
[22:41:21] <robotustra_> SpeedEvil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_k30yeCk4c
[22:41:49] <robotustra_> I listen it sometimes
[22:43:24] <robotustra_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDleH4RgmZ8
[22:46:11] <robotustra_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3Jv9fNPjgk
[23:08:32] <robotustra_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDboaDrHGbA
[23:16:06] <anonnumberanon> I'm building one this year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42VeT_OYnkI
[23:17:30] <robotustra_> mustang?
