Back
[00:00:36] <anonnumberanon> akem, I'll order that one you found when I have time to see how performant it is, take it apart, see if the bracket can be used with my frame and other things
[00:03:03] <akem> i just quickly tested one, but it looks nice you ll tell me about it then, i feel like there is no much different brands got to look on servodatabase or something like that.
[00:14:31] <akem> actually i'm more interested into step motors only 1 arm, i would try one just 3 or 4 motors.
[00:18:21] <Jak_o_Shadows> In short, I need UV joints, and then preferably a ball joint
[00:18:22] <Jak_o_Shadows> hmmmm
[00:36:08] * Anniepoo__ is firing a laser at photopaper
[01:19:32] <anonnumberanon> Jak_o_Shadows, hasn't it been a while since you've been looking?
[01:21:01] <Jak_o_Shadows> couple of days
[01:27:13] <anonnumberanon> did you find something close to what you want yet?
[01:28:42] <rue_shop3> can I cheat the schmitt on a 555
[01:30:23] <rue_shop3> I think that the threshold and the output are opposite polarity, so one of them could be tied back to the control votlage pin
[01:31:11] <Jak_o_Shadows> TBH, I'm looking at buying lego bits
[01:31:13] <anonnumberanon> >cheat the schmitt
[01:31:16] <anonnumberanon> 10/10
[01:31:50] <anonnumberanon> rue_shop3, good question I'd have to see schematics/drawing
[01:32:04] <anonnumberanon> wait no,
[01:32:10] <rue_shop3> resistor from pin 5 to either 3 or 7
[01:32:17] <rue_shop3> polarity pending
[01:32:17] <anonnumberanon> i wouldnt be any use I haven't played with 555
[01:32:33] <anonnumberanon> are you making a smps?
[01:32:39] <rue_shop3> yea
[01:32:45] <anonnumberanon> good man
[01:33:31] <rue_shop3> https://hackaday.io/project/296-bench-power-supply
[01:33:37] <rue_shop3> its not going awesome yet
[01:34:27] <rue_shop3> looks like I'm redoing the osc, again
[01:34:29] <Jak_o_Shadows> It is a nice box
[01:34:44] <rue_shop3> I have a 5Mhz ring screwing up the pwm comparitor
[01:34:50] <rue_shop3> it wasn't there on the breadboard
[01:35:12] <rue_shop3> its about .03V
[01:35:27] <rue_shop3> 0.2us long
[01:35:40] <rue_shop3> and it causes a false output spike
[01:41:53] <anonnumberanon> that hackaday work log of yours was interesting
[01:42:09] <anonnumberanon> makes me want to make an smps
[01:42:29] <anonnumberanon> it
[01:42:39] <anonnumberanon> 's a small want, not a big want
[01:42:46] <anonnumberanon> :)
[01:43:27] <rue_shop3> I have some ideas to lock out the problems I'm having that I dont want to implemnt yet
[01:43:58] <anonnumberanon> sounds familiar
[01:44:25] <anonnumberanon> sometimes i want to understand why something doesn't work before trying something that is very likely to work
[01:44:37] <rue_house> how many 80Mhz cycles are in 250Khz
[01:45:07] <Jak_o_Shadows> 320?
[01:45:09] <rue_house> hmm
[01:45:27] <rue_house> so if I use a latch at 80Mhz on the output of the pwm comp...
[01:45:51] <anonnumberanon> answer is 0.003125
[01:47:19] * rue_house turns anonnumberanon upside down
[01:48:08] <rue_house> too bad I dont have a rom fast enough to generate the pwm digitally
[01:48:13] <anonnumberanon> answer is 320
[01:48:47] * rue_house points to the answer for anonnumberanon OZE
[01:49:04] <anonnumberanon> ezo, oze? what the hell
[01:49:30] <anonnumberanon> you have gone down the road of analog design, prepare to become insane
[01:49:38] <rue_house> yea
[01:50:03] <rue_house> its all the fault of a 0.2us 5Mhz oscillation thats only about .02V p-p
[01:50:32] <rue_house> it occurs when the comparitor crosses
[01:51:18] <anonnumberanon> post picture of output
[01:51:47] <anonnumberanon> i think you meant 0.2
[01:51:48] <anonnumberanon> V
[01:51:51] <rue_house> no
[01:51:58] <rue_house> this is a tiny little ring
[01:52:39] <rue_house> it causes a 0.7V spike in the comparitor output that is taken to 5V by the 74ls14 schmidtt which is amplified to 12V by the fet driver
[01:54:03] <rue_house> maybe I shoudl drop the bottom off the signal to the 74ls14
[01:54:25] <rue_house> I'd like to just clean the ramp signal
[01:54:52] <rue_house> I almost wonder if using a seperate op-amp chip would work, it might be a crosstalk issue
[03:49:02] <RyanS> so the differentials on my rc car are 3:1 and i want 3km/h for a 2.5kg robot platform -- does this look like itd do the trick?
https://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/726-19-1-Metal-Gearmotor-37D-x-52L-mm-12V
[03:50:25] <RyanS> i used robotshops motor size calculator
http://www.robotshop.com/blog/en/drive-motor-sizing-tool-9698
[10:06:53] <LiohAu> Is there a shape for the motor shaft that is better than another?
[10:07:11] <LiohAu> I have seen motor with "D" shaft
[10:07:51] <LiohAu> and I guess it's better, but I see quality motors with a basic cylindric shaft
[10:08:15] <zzz64> define better
[10:09:05] <LiohAu> well actually I don't see how you can couple a motor with a cylindric shaft with a pulley for instance
[10:10:40] <LiohAu> when the shaft will turn, why would the pulley follow ?
[10:10:58] <femtogram> LiohAu: set screws?
[10:11:05] <femtogram> i'm confused as to what you mean
[10:11:26] <LiohAu> https://www.servocity.com/assets/images/Servo_Shaft_Couplers_group.jpg
[10:11:29] <LiohAu> this kind of screws ?
[10:11:56] <LiohAu> isn't this less efficient than a D shaft ?
[10:12:20] <z64555> uh, no, those would work with a D shaft
[10:12:25] <LiohAu> I mean 2 or 1 contact points (depending on the number of screws) vs a surface (the flat one on the D shaft)
[10:13:33] <z64555> re-shaft profile. D shafts are simple to make and are more reliable than the keyed type
[10:14:27] <z64555> the "best" profile would be a regular polygon, such as a square or hexagon, but they're not simple to construct nor is it easy to use set screws large enough for human hands to manipulate
[10:15:00] <jhylands> sometimes D shafts fit into a D-shaped hole, but most of the time D-shafts just give you a flat that a set screw can tighten against
[10:16:58] <z64555> the polygonal shaft would require a retaining collar or something to prevent the mounted wheel/pulley from falling off
[10:19:34] <jhylands> for instance, one of my mini-sumo robots, Seeker 2x, has a D-shaft motor, but round holes in the wheels
[10:19:42] <jhylands> I use the D-shaft for a set screw
[10:19:50] <jhylands> http://huv.com/miniSumo/seeker2x/Seeker2x-Tire-01.jpg
[10:20:08] <z64555> both keyed shafts and D shafts use friction between the shaft and output to transmit power
[10:20:08] <jhylands> you can see the flat in the shaft of the motor (which doesn't extend all the way to the end)
[10:20:12] <femtogram> LiohAu: are you talking about D shaft vs cylindrical shaft? a set screw directly on a cylindrical shaft is prone to slipping. prefer D shaft with set screw.
[10:20:27] <jhylands> the wheel has a small tapped #4-40 hole with a set screw from each side
[10:20:43] <jhylands> one side gets a flat, the other goes up against the round part of the shaft
[10:20:49] <femtogram> you can mill down a cylindrical shaft a bit to make it a D shaft.
[10:21:01] <z64555> which is preferred
[10:21:45] <deshipu> boy, does that pi zero eat batteries
[10:21:51] <femtogram> i still don't think i understand LiohAu's original question
[10:22:00] <femtogram> deshipu: does it? i'd been meaning to get one.
[10:22:05] <jhylands> deshipu, what are you running it on?
[10:22:17] <deshipu> jhylands: stanard raspbian for now
[10:22:24] <jhylands> no, I mean power wise
[10:22:28] <deshipu> jhylands: I probably shouldn't have ran apt-get while on battery
[10:22:38] <deshipu> ah, 2S 610mAh lipo
[10:22:52] <deshipu> and a switching voltage regulator to 5V
[10:23:09] <jhylands> from what I've seen, it consumes about 100 mA at idle, probably more with wifi attached
[10:23:26] <jhylands> and a bunch more than that when its actually processing
[10:23:56] <z64555> definitely more with wifi on
[10:24:01] <jhylands> I'm going to be doing a lot of very precise power monitoring of a pi zero as soon as I get mine
[10:24:30] <jhylands> We're going to use it in a low power application, so I'm going to have a microcontroller with a mosfet setup to switch it off completely
[10:24:35] <femtogram> isn't raspbian pretty bad power consumption wise? i would imagine something more stripped down would be better.
[10:24:35] <jhylands> and only power it on periodically
[10:25:09] <deshipu> femtogram: I will probably play with that once I get this thing to walk
[10:25:23] <femtogram> alright, fair enough
[10:25:49] <deshipu> I want to try to make the pi zero behave like a pyboard
[10:26:14] <jhylands> I'm probably going to use Tiny Core Linux
[10:26:17] <deshipu> that is, make a python repl available as serial over usb, and some directory as storage, and run main.py from that storage on startup
[10:26:21] <jhylands> we've gotten it running on a PI 2
[10:26:44] <jhylands> deshipu, MicroPython is available natively on Tiny Core Linux
[10:26:54] <deshipu> jhylands: I want real python
[10:27:01] <jhylands> ah, okay
[10:27:05] <jhylands> well, you can load that if you want
[10:27:34] <deshipu> I will just wait for someone to figure out how to do mass storage with usb gadgets
[10:28:03] <z64555> mass storage is easy to do with the SMD cards
[10:28:29] <z64555> oh, whats the name of the protocol... I know the HC9S12 can talk to them directly
[10:28:31] <femtogram> buildroot is super cool for embedded linux btw
[10:28:36] <deshipu> z64555: I mean to make the pi appear as mass storage over the usb otg port
[10:28:44] <femtogram> https://buildroot.uclibc.org/
[10:28:57] <jhylands> nice thing with Tiny Core Linux - it boots from power up to login prompt in 12 seconds
[10:29:15] <deshipu> jhylands: on pi zero that's more like 20s
[10:29:20] <deshipu> jhylands: but still acceptable
[10:29:25] <z64555> deshipu: ah, gotcha. In that case you'd want to look at the protocol used by them and emulate that
[10:29:39] <femtogram> jhylands: have you tried buildroot?
[10:29:44] <deshipu> z64555: it's all done in the kernel, there are ready drivers
[10:29:45] <jhylands> no
[10:29:56] <deshipu> z64555: someone just has to figure out how to configure them :)
[10:30:00] <deshipu> z64555: and I'm too lazy
[10:30:12] <z64555> ah, the truth surfaces! :P
[10:30:20] <femtogram> jhylands: you can configure to the bare minimum of what you need and so boot times become much much faster
[10:30:34] <femtogram> for some applications that means under a second on the original raspberry pi
[10:31:13] <deshipu> hmm, I would call it pipy, to confuse everyone
[10:31:31] <femtogram> it's similar to gentoo in the sense that you compile everything specifically for the system, but everything is preconfigured instead via cross-compilation
[10:32:18] <deshipu> also, all filesystems, except for the small user space, mounted ro
[10:32:29] <deshipu> so that there is no filesystem corruption on sudden poweroffs
[10:33:51] <z64555> ...not SMD, SD card
[10:34:07] <z64555> common brain. get with the accronyms
[10:34:21] <jhylands> deshipu, that's one thing Tiny Core Linux gives you - its all RAM based, so no file issues
[10:36:36] <jhylands> femtogram, that looks interesting
[10:36:46] <z64555> anybody study or know UML here? I keep being lazy
[10:38:21] <deshipu> z64555: I know uml enough to know it's useless :)
[10:38:48] <femtogram> jhylands: yup, it's basically like a wizard based linux from scratch specifically for embedded systems.
[10:38:50] <deshipu> jhylands: yeah, most those small distros do that
[10:38:55] <z64555> oh poo.
[10:38:58] <LiohAu> femtogram the original meaning of my question was : is D shaft better than cylindral shaft
[10:39:22] <femtogram> LiohAu: yes.
[10:39:32] <z64555> UML 2.0 is supposed to be much better, but I don't have anybody that knows enough to say if that's true or not
[10:39:54] <LiohAu> and you said : "a set screw directly on a cylindrical shaft is prone to slipping. prefer D shaft with set screw.", so why do I see cylindrical shaft on Faulhaber motors for instance
[10:39:54] <femtogram> z64555: that's because no one uses uml in real world projects.
[10:40:09] <z64555> what do they use, then?
[10:40:19] <LiohAu> z64555 no conception
[10:41:00] <z64555> so I've been doing this project right after all. :D
[10:41:02] <z64555> lol
[10:41:15] <deshipu> LiohAu: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
[10:41:25] <femtogram> z64555: the problem is uml is too low level typically. you might use larger block diagrams. i'm sure there are plenty of people who do use it, but i haven't met anyone who does on any regular basis.
[10:41:38] <femtogram> s/larger/higher level/
[10:41:51] <LiohAu> "Working software over comprehensive documentation"
[10:42:07] <LiohAu> UML is a kind of documentation
[10:42:14] <deshipu> my problem with uml is that it's too hard to change once you draw the diagram
[10:42:23] <deshipu> so you can't really use it to reason about designs
[10:42:26] <LiohAu> time wasted in producing it, makes you less agile
[10:42:45] <deshipu> you get stuck in your initial design
[10:43:08] <deshipu> LiohAu: I'm not sure being more agile is always a good thing
[10:43:13] <femtogram> deshipu: some packages can generate uml
[10:43:19] <femtogram> i find that can be somewhat useful
[10:43:29] <femtogram> and other packages can generate code from uml
[10:43:34] <deshipu> femtogram: that only shows that it contains no actual information :)
[10:44:56] <femtogram> hehe yup.
[10:44:56] <femtogram> i think the uml fad has mostly gone away
[10:44:56] <femtogram> it peaked like 10 years ago
[10:46:21] <z64555> Hm. what about signal graphs? are they good for anything other than state machines? :P
[10:47:43] <femtogram> actually, i didn't know sequence diagrams were a part of uml
[10:47:53] <femtogram> z64555: sequence diagrams are actually kinda useful
[10:48:21] <femtogram> and i'm not the right person to ask but i'm pretty sure signal graphs are pretty specialized to state machines
[10:49:21] <femtogram> actually, looking at wikipedia that sounds totally wrong.
[10:49:32] * femtogram is spreading lies
[10:49:34] <z64555> thought I saw somewhere a signal graph that simulated a fuzzy logic or neural net
[10:51:00] <femtogram> yeah, we use something like that for neural nets. that's standard. dunno if it's a signal graph though
[10:51:02] <femtogram> maybe it is
[10:51:24] <z64555> ah, aside from states, the nodes can represent variables
[10:51:30] <femtogram> oh, i guess it is
[10:51:54] <z64555> so you could use it to model, say, a kalman filter or some other sensor fusion technique
[10:52:36] <femtogram> what's the term for the block diagrams used in control theory?
[10:53:44] * z64555 's gears spin
[10:53:48] <deshipu> control flow?
[10:55:34] <z64555> block diagram is the only thing that come to mind, although it could be called a system control diagram, or something
[13:41:48] <knob2> Anybody see the Segway robot? Looks cool!
[13:44:30] <deshipu> it's been around for a while
[14:13:19] * z64555 reads a bit more about signal graphs
[14:15:17] <z64555> ok.
[14:15:26] <z64555> That's the thing I was most concerned about
[14:15:34] <z64555> Paths to the nodes are summed
[15:58:27] <z64555> hm.
[15:59:04] <z64555> Well, I get the general idea of how kalman filters work. But I'm not sure what kind of transition models they're using on the AHRS
[18:11:08] <veverak> ok
[18:11:18] <veverak> so my nodes in ros do just too much now
[18:11:21] <veverak> let's start splitting
[18:19:04] <Jak_o_Shadows> where the heck is this bearing sticking
[18:19:08] <Jak_o_Shadows> (3D printed)
[18:25:52] <veverak> deshipu: really thinking about stripping cables from servos for tote
[18:26:00] <veverak> the fact that each servo needs S,+,-
[18:26:03] <veverak> takes a lot of space
[18:26:30] <robotustra> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD1aWOoUwA4
[18:29:02] <Snert__> I think the wire gauges on servos is too big.
[18:38:27] <Snert__> I usually peel off the juice and ground wires and terminate them elsewhere out of the fray.
[18:41:32] <Jak_o_Shadows> robotustra, you find cool videos
[18:42:27] <robotustra> yeah, in science it's called "review"
[18:42:52] <robotustra> I'm trying to review what's already been done
[18:43:01] <robotustra> may be find some cool ideas
[18:44:06] <jhylands> http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/sensors/quanergy-solid-state-lidar
[18:45:47] <robotustra> phase grid principles
[18:46:33] <robotustra> par pire pas pire
[18:46:42] <jhylands> yeah, I can't wait to see the $100 smaller version they're talking about
[18:48:25] <robotustra> may be in 5 years
[18:48:52] <robotustra> china will not repeat it soon
[18:50:04] <Jak_o_Shadows> ah, flywheels.
[18:50:11] <Jak_o_Shadows> Simple solution
[18:50:31] <robotustra> yeah, but flywheels could drop in price
[18:51:32] <robotustra> usually it takes 3-5 year for china to copy technology
[18:51:50] * z64555 wonders how that LIDAR chip actually works
[18:52:10] <jhylands> it works by bending the light
[18:52:19] <robotustra> z64555: do you know what is difraction and interference?
[18:52:33] <z64555> yes
[18:52:37] <robotustra> z64555: or what is phase mesh?
[18:52:48] <z64555> no idea about phase mesh
[18:52:56] <robotustra> phase greed?
[18:53:00] <z64555> nope
[18:54:31] <robotustra> Huygens principle?
[18:54:39] <z64555> never heard of it
[18:54:45] <z64555> I'm a rookie EEEN
[18:55:05] <z64555> hehe, I can hear the channel groan already
[18:55:09] <robotustra> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction_grating
[18:55:14] <z64555> ohhh man, one of THOSE guys
[18:55:39] <z64555> ok, now diffraction grating I have heard about
[18:55:47] <robotustra> to turn the beam of laser you do not need mirror
[18:55:51] <z64555> chemists use that
[18:56:24] <robotustra> lidar is actually a scanning laser beam
[18:56:39] <Snert__> so is a laser printer
[18:56:57] <robotustra> IR laser beam
[18:57:13] <z64555> yes, I've heard about lidar :)
[18:57:23] <robotustra> in this lidar they just send it in different directions using difracion
[18:57:27] <z64555> as the article mentioned, they've historically used mirrors to direct the beam
[18:57:48] <z64555> yes
[18:58:47] <z64555> so how's this chip control the diffraction grating? or does it use a passive grating and just switch on different laser diodes in a matrix?
[19:00:57] <jhylands> no, there's only one laser
[19:01:12] <jhylands> the diffraction grating is like a lens that can be aimed electronically
[19:03:41] <z64555> neat.
[19:06:19] <adv_> can anyone help with some inverse kinematics code?
[19:08:56] <robotustra> adv_: do it yourself?
[19:09:15] <adv_> robotustra: i said help
[19:10:41] <robotustra> did you find some example of IK?
[19:13:49] <robotustra> adv_: did you try some search?
[19:13:58] <adv_> yes
[19:14:30] <robotustra> and what is the result?
[19:14:35] <adv_> i need help with curling of the nodes
[19:14:55] <robotustra> jhylands could help you
[19:15:14] <robotustra> he uses IK for his quadruped robot
[19:15:24] <jhylands> possibly
[19:15:31] <robotustra> I saw some code on his github
[19:15:38] <jhylands> what the heck is curling of the nodes?
[19:15:50] <adv_> instead of keeping the node straight
[19:16:35] <adv_> make it curl
[19:16:44] <jhylands> what's the node?
[19:16:53] <robotustra> joint?
[19:17:10] <adv_> http://codepen.io/soulwire/pen/KLrBz/
[19:17:23] <adv_> line 42 of the js is the IK code
[19:17:42] <robotustra> wtf
[19:17:58] <robotustra> it's not IK
[19:18:04] <adv_> it is
[19:18:11] <adv_> why not?
[19:18:53] <robotustra> you mean as it pass throug the prefious position the all shapes are recalculated?
[19:19:05] <jhylands> IK is specifying a location for the end of an appendage, and then calculating how the joints bend to put the end in that position
[19:19:07] <adv_> i want the tentacles to curl instead of them being straight
[19:20:03] <jhylands> none of them look very straight to me
[19:20:25] <adv_> jhylands: increase friction to 0.6 or so
[19:20:29] <adv_> and you'll see what i mean
[19:21:20] <adv_> i want them to curl on inactivity, like a 'star' shape
[19:22:12] <jhylands> sorry, no idea
[19:22:14] <Jak_o_Shadows> tha'ts not kinematics
[19:22:18] <Jak_o_Shadows> You have gravity and frction
[19:22:22] <Jak_o_Shadows> You have dynamics
[19:22:42] <adv_> it's IK with other stuff as well
[19:22:58] <robotustra> replace quadraticCurveTo with some other curve
[19:23:27] <robotustra> and rigidity of the thing
[19:23:29] <adv_> i want something like gravity but instead of the tentacles dropping down to curl around themselves
[19:23:39] <adv_> rigidity?
[19:24:30] <robotustra> first I would propose to play with parameters
[19:24:40] <robotustra> there is no IK in here
[19:24:58] <robotustra> just curves drawing trough some points
[19:25:15] <robotustra> reduce the distance between nodes
[19:25:58] <adv_> what kind of curve would be more appropriate?
[19:26:58] <robotustra> I don't know what there in the library, but I would use spline
[19:27:26] <robotustra> they use sines and cosines
[19:27:48] <adv_> there's bezier
[19:28:22] <robotustra> might work but there are some extra parameters
[19:31:00] <adv_> robotustra: thanks this helps
[19:33:21] <adv_> how do i do a spiral with quadraticcurve or bezier?
[19:34:51] <robotustra> do you know equation of spiral?
[19:34:59] <robotustra> in any coordinates?
[19:35:56] <robotustra> in polar coordinates it will be R = R0 + Altpha * const
[19:36:20] <robotustra> R - is distance from the center
[19:36:35] <robotustra> Alpha - is angle
[19:36:56] <robotustra> R0 - is starting radius, i.e. constant
[19:37:14] <robotustra> const - the "curliness"
[19:37:28] <robotustra> and direction of curliness
[19:38:59] <robotustra> use transition to XY plane using equations X = R * cos(Alpha); Y = R* sin(Alpha)
[19:40:01] <robotustra> adv_:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylindrical_coordinate_system
[19:40:15] <robotustra> actually you need only XY plane
[19:47:31] <adv_> robotustra: what are some good values for alpha and r?
[19:48:11] <adv_> i've created a monster lol
[19:48:25] <adv_> http://codepen.io/anon/pen/qbmZvd
[19:49:52] <veverak> I wonder
[19:50:00] <veverak> how my "time estimate" for cheap chinese servo will work
[19:50:02] <veverak> (code only)
[20:20:12] <vicarion> noobish question, but what sort of problems are stopping robots from having human level biped movement and agility?
[20:21:04] <Casper> my uneducated guess: programs
[20:21:42] <DagoRed> Large amounts of math, resources, and the fact that the amount of money to make that happen properly is considered a waste since there is next to nothing in terms of return on investment.
[20:21:53] <Casper> and also... the actuators they use may be pneumatic, which is small, but springy
[20:21:55] <vicarion> casper: thanks, but i'm really interested in an educated answer in this situation
[20:22:21] <DagoRed> Casper: have you seen rue's air muscles?
[20:22:25] <vicarion> so - more POWER
[20:23:01] <DagoRed> https://hackaday.com/2011/11/21/experimenting-with-an-air-muscle-and-sensor-feedback/
[20:23:03] <DagoRed> .title
[20:23:05] <makepi> DagoRed: Experimenting with an air muscle and sensor feedback | Hackaday
[20:23:20] <Casper> DagoRed: no, but you still can't control an air muscle in a very precise maner... it get better...
[20:24:24] <DagoRed> Kind of. Most of the robots tend to use servo's anyway.
[20:25:02] <Casper> servo tend to be big
[20:25:10] <Casper> which cause other kind of issues
[20:25:46] <DagoRed> Agreed, but for smaller robots they tend to be lighter weight for the smaller robots.
[20:26:17] <jasonj8> Here's the best humanoid robot I know of:
https://youtu.be/NwrjAa1SgjQ?t=11
[20:27:06] <DagoRed> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdQL11uWWcI
[20:27:20] <DagoRed> .info
[20:27:22] <makepi> DagoRed: Honda's Asimo: the penalty-taking, bar-tending robot - YouTube-
http://j.mp/1ZdHjdk
[20:27:41] <DagoRed> That one has been in the news for over a decade. Honda's done a lot of good work.
[20:27:43] <vicarion> wow, pretty impressive
[20:27:49] <Jak_o_Shadows> Dago, I very much like how you linked our own rue_'s video
[20:27:50] <z64555> power and a balance control system that can learn how to walk with varing conditions
[20:28:27] <vicarion> although it doesn't move like a human - why not?
[20:28:32] <DagoRed> Jak_o_Shadows: I remember when he posted that before hackaday found it.
[20:28:39] <z64555> simplification
[20:29:07] <vicarion> z64555: yeah, but what advantages do humans get by walking how they do, rather than how that robot does?
[20:29:27] <vicarion> is it just a function of anatomy, and having muscles rather than motors?
[20:29:34] <DagoRed> You need to study control systems and inverse kinematics to fully understand how to make a robot move mroe like a human.... truth is humans are complicated.
[20:30:10] <z64555> human's physiology are much more flexible, and we have the advatage of figuring out how to adapt to varying terrain for... thousands of years
[20:30:16] <vicarion> DagoRed: does this field have a name?
[20:30:20] <DagoRed> vicarion: stuffing all the motors, pnuematics, and then having the compuational power for all the sensors is a challenge by itself.
[20:30:24] <vicarion> robo kinesiology or something?
[20:31:02] <z64555> electric motors are usually rotational.
[20:31:11] <z64555> there are some linear motors, but those tend to be weak
[20:31:34] <z64555> pnuematic and hydraulic have the power, at cost of speed and weight
[20:31:51] <DagoRed> z64555: stepper motors have been used
[20:32:08] <DagoRed> feedback is an issue though.
[20:32:11] <z64555> yes
[20:32:37] <jhylands> Series elastic actuators are the way to go for large limbed robots
[20:32:59] <DagoRed> hey theBear
[20:33:07] <Casper> from what I understand, the actual issue with robots is: motor size and power source
[20:33:09] <z64555> yeah that's the new motors, um. I think they're based on memory wire
[20:33:17] * z64555 researches
[20:33:19] <jhylands> no, not memory wire
[20:33:25] <jhylands> they are compliant and force-driven
[20:33:31] <DagoRed> Casper: bingo
[20:33:47] <DagoRed> dexterity costs weight + power.
[20:34:01] <Casper> to get better movement, you need more powerfull and faster motor, which become bigger, and heavier, which need way more power...
[20:34:27] <jhylands> So far, I've only seen one company that knows how to build robots that use reasonable actuators that can react in real time to outside forces
[20:34:39] <vicarion> when i google 'series elastic actuator' the first article that comes back is from 21 years ago - has the field been moving forward since then?
[20:34:51] <Casper> which is why lots of those robots are tethered... so they can offload the power source (and often the hydraulic/pneumatic) outside the robot..
[20:35:04] <jhylands> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8YjvHYbZ9w
[20:35:05] <z64555> http://www.cc.gatech.edu/fac/Chris.Atkeson/legs/jh1c.pdf
[20:35:09] <z64555> neat
[20:35:13] <robotustra> oh, I forget to draw knee or my robot
[20:35:33] <jhylands> vicarion, MIT spun off a company to try and commercialize them (and patented them as well)
[20:35:38] <jhylands> but I don't think it was successful
[20:36:33] <vicarion> that sounds like 'not really'
[20:36:59] <jhylands> the problem is, everyone spins their own
[20:37:06] <jhylands> just like how we used to write code
[20:37:09] <vicarion> yah
[20:37:14] <z64555> "used to" :P
[20:37:25] <jhylands> way back when, everyone wrote code from scratch for everything
[20:37:47] <vicarion> is there some sort of standard software most people use to control their robots now?
[20:37:51] <jhylands> right now, everyone builds their robots from scratch also
[20:37:58] <jhylands> ROS is gaining a lot of momentum
[20:38:15] <DagoRed> ROS?
[20:38:22] <robotustra> ROS - is a bricks, and robot also will be a brick
[20:38:27] <robotustra> not good one
[20:38:27] <jhylands> Robot Operating System
[20:38:27] <DagoRed> lol
[20:38:34] <DagoRed> ROS... waste of time.
[20:38:39] <jhylands> https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj3-uWekpnKAhUTgBoKHd6OBdEQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ros.org%2F&usg=AFQjCNE818o1l9kNijBEvflxfZQe3l4nNA&sig2=MUbCGdWtmRTrK-yx4osNrw
[20:38:40] <robotustra> right design is to do everything from scratch
[20:38:53] <jhylands> I hate google links
[20:38:53] <jhylands> http://www.ros.org/
[20:38:55] <robotustra> hardware and code
[20:39:06] <robotustra> I hate google
[20:39:11] <Jak_o_Shadows> right design is to do the correct amount from scratch
[20:39:15] <DagoRed> No it isn't that, ROS is about allowing com sci majors to mess with robotics without learning the underlying concepts.
[20:39:19] <robotustra> because they didn't hire me yet :)
[20:39:27] <DagoRed> FYI, feel free to use .shrink
[20:39:31] <DagoRed> .shrink
[20:39:31] <makepi> DagoRed:
http://j.mp/1ZdIGbK
[20:39:38] <vicarion> i was looking at inmoov, which uses software called myrobotlab, but i didn't notice any other famous robots using it
[20:40:11] <jasonj8> Doing everything from scratch is a monumental waste of time.
[20:40:12] <DagoRed> robotustra: Are you a grad student or something?
[20:40:33] <jhylands> so robotustra, when your robot wants to send an email, do you write your SNTP server from scratch?
[20:40:33] <robotustra> I'm kinda 40 yo men
[20:40:49] <jhylands> err SMTP
[20:40:53] <jhylands> whatever
[20:41:11] <robotustra> DagoRed: my robot project is here robotustra.ca/my-robot
[20:41:18] * DagoRed looks
[20:41:25] <robotustra> robotustra.ca/my-robot-done
[20:41:42] <robotustra> jhylands: of cause custom not to that extent
[20:41:59] <robotustra> jhylands: I design only parts I don't like
[20:42:11] <DagoRed> Looks like a great built.
[20:42:13] <DagoRed> *build
[20:42:16] <robotustra> I do not build bearings from scratch of electric motors
[20:42:21] <DagoRed> The gimbles were nice but those hands!!!
[20:42:28] <jhylands> someday, robots are going to be built by putting together bits of software that other people wrote, just like how we build normal software today
[20:42:48] <DagoRed> Agreed but it won't be with ROS.
[20:43:02] <jhylands> I don't use ROS myself
[20:43:04] <robotustra> I'll write my own code
[20:43:20] <robotustra> C mainly
[20:43:23] <robotustra> linux
[20:43:24] <jhylands> ugh
[20:43:26] <robotustra> arduino
[20:43:26] <jhylands> C
[20:43:44] <jasonj8> People already use ROS.
[20:43:54] <DagoRed> robotustra: I really love those hands! That is some amazing kinematics there with a very simple bio inspired design! Simple meaning reduced inputs to get that kind of dexterity.
[20:44:15] <robotustra> DagoRed: thanks,
[20:44:37] <jasonj8> I'm not crazy about it, mostly because the environment is a bit of a clusterfuck, but it's the best at what it is at the moment.
[20:45:08] <robotustra> DagoRed: you can use as many DOF as you want
[20:46:06] <jhylands> robotustra, that IMU you're using - isn't that a BMO-055?
[20:46:16] <robotustra> bmx055
[20:46:57] <DagoRed> One of my old projects
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttHvIv1nZ4E
[20:47:06] <DagoRed> Looking for the helicopter as well.
[20:47:15] <DagoRed> robotustra: I focused more on navigation.
[20:47:15] <robotustra> I took code from here and fixed it a little bit
https://github.com/kriswiner/BMX-055
[20:47:49] <DagoRed> This is from the helicopter.
[20:47:51] <jhylands> ah, okay, its like a BMO-055 with without the builtin fusion processor
[20:47:52] <DagoRed> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjmTYXBLOI8
[20:49:21] <jhylands> I bought a BMO-055 on a board, but I can't find the damn thing now
[20:50:03] <z64555> hm, where was I
[20:50:14] * z64555 goes back to kalman filters
[20:50:37] <DagoRed> z64555: what are you doing with kalman filters?
[20:50:48] <DagoRed> UKF? EKF?
[20:51:42] <z64555> trying to figure out how those IMU's work
[20:53:25] <robotustra> DagoRed: I'm trying to do binocular vision
[20:53:29] <z64555> I get that the kalman filters use a weighted estimate in determining their output, but I'm not seeing a clear path to how an IMU can use it without information about the system it's mounted to
[20:54:00] <jhylands> I'm so happy that you can actually buy an IMU now for less than $50 that has a built-in filter
[20:54:41] <z64555> heh.
[20:54:57] <z64555> the IMU itself cost maybe $10 or so, and the rest is software
[20:54:57] <DagoRed> robotustra: good luck... my friend never posted his thesis on automatic calibration of stereo vision.
[20:54:59] <vicarion> are these the same things that are in my phone?
[20:55:21] <DagoRed> z64555: it's a pain... I haven't done much with IMU's since working at a quad copter company.
[20:55:23] <robotustra> DagoRed: because his eyes are not moving
[20:56:05] <DagoRed> robotustra: we were doing dept preception with a flying autonomous helicopter in a gps denied environment.
[20:56:48] <z64555> might've been easier to use IR and sonic distance sensors, tbh
[20:57:56] <DagoRed> That was phase 3 of the project.
[20:58:07] <robotustra> DagoRed: yeah, I see
[20:58:07] <DagoRed> Also the fact we got it flying in 2008 was impressive.
[20:58:13] <z64555> Knowing the difference between the images isn't enough, you need some information of what the object is that you're viewing to determine the distance
[20:58:27] <z64555> heh. very impressive
[20:58:39] <DagoRed> Exactly, which is where the kalman filter is amazing.
[20:59:56] <DagoRed> We used the IMU to overlay with the image data. It was crazy math simplified to be called sensor fusion that we could take an estimate of the change in image and the imu data to see about how large our "landmark" was.
[21:01:03] <z64555> how were you able to figure out what the landmark was?
[21:01:27] <DagoRed> z64555: The trick with Kalman filters besides getting the weights right.... all data is added together to get an estimate that is more accurate than any single sensor.
[21:01:34] <DagoRed> We didn't care, we used corners.
[21:01:46] <z64555> oh, lol
[21:01:47] <DagoRed> We tracked the change to help our estimate of where we thought we were.
[21:01:51] <robotustra> it tracks the floor as you see
[21:02:07] <DagoRed> Actually no, we used door frames in our tests.
[21:02:40] <robotustra> blue dots on lower right?
[21:03:13] <robotustra> DagoRed: but as soon as I understand it's not universal algorythm
[21:03:35] <robotustra> how many FPS you use for camera and what was a delay?
[21:04:45] <DagoRed> 30 fps logtiech camera's
[21:05:01] <DagoRed> robotustra: we gave a PR to opencv, it should all be there.
[21:05:24] <DagoRed> the dots were all the land marks we found, we just tracked the changes.
[21:06:41] <robotustra> DagoRed: do you have lidar on your car?
[21:06:47] <robotustra> car robot?
[21:06:55] <DagoRed> the car yes, the helicopter was all image.
[21:07:24] <DagoRed> we had 2 lidar units. Prof. Sunjo blew through his budget QUICK
[21:07:42] <z64555> welp.
[21:08:07] <robotustra> :)
[21:08:09] <DagoRed> But we did get paper of the year at IEEE.
[21:08:26] <robotustra> DagoRed: nice, where are you?
[21:08:33] <robotustra> usa? canada?
[21:08:38] <robotustra> europe?
[21:08:42] <DagoRed> Right now I'm in Pennsylvania. I went to school at Iowa State.
[21:09:05] <robotustra> my friend now in Iowa university
[21:09:16] <robotustra> but he is much younger
[21:09:21] <robotustra> doing his phd
[21:09:43] <robotustra> in plasma physics
[21:10:00] <DagoRed> cool, and they are our Rivals.... lame school!!1
[21:10:08] <robotustra> DagoRed: so where are your robots now?
[21:10:32] <DagoRed> I haven't worked on them, I had to get a job and have been influx with life. I miss it.
[21:10:50] <DagoRed> I did work at wm robots for a bit but that ended poorly.
[21:12:48] <robotustra> anyway you have good experience now
[21:14:01] <DagoRed> doesn't mean squat, I need a new job.
[21:14:19] <DagoRed> I can't stand manufacturing and barcode scanner based systems anymore.
[21:14:27] <DagoRed> Or at least my boss
[21:14:40] <DagoRed> .ud debian
[21:14:40] <makepi> DagoRed: An amazing distribution of [Linux] combined with [GNU] that allows users the freedom to install new programs and libraries even easier than [Windows] claims! - Entry 1/7.
[21:14:48] * DagoRed jaw drops
[21:14:54] <DagoRed> .ud ubuntu
[21:14:55] <makepi> DagoRed: Ubuntu is an ancient african word, meaning "I can't configure [Debian]" - Entry 1/10.
[21:14:58] <DagoRed> There we go
[21:18:22] <z64555> huh. is makepi an IRC bot that has a compiler attached to it?
[21:18:26] * z64555 gets his hopes up
[21:18:43] <robotustra> .ud robot
[21:18:44] <makepi> robotustra: scariest fucking thing on earth. - Entry 1/10.
[21:18:59] <robotustra> :)
[21:19:03] <robotustra> looks like
[21:19:17] <DagoRed> makepi is mine
[21:19:23] <DagoRed> ask any questions if you have them.
[21:19:45] <robotustra> .ud who'd the hell are you?
[21:19:47] <makepi> robotustra: There is no definition for who'd the hell are you? at this time.
[21:19:50] <z64555> yes, but its name suggests it makes something
[21:20:09] <robotustra> makepi: temperature in Montreal
[21:20:19] <robotustra> .ud temperature in Montreal
[21:20:20] <makepi> robotustra: There is no definition for temperature in Montreal at this time.
[21:20:21] <DagoRed> .weather montreal, canada
[21:20:23] <makepi> DagoRed: Montreal, Quebec: Partly Cloudy, 25 F (-4 C), 30.30(0), Feels Like: 20 F (-6 C), Humidity 80%, WindFrom the ESE at 4 MPH - Last Updated on January 7, 9:00 PM EST-
http://j.mp/1ITK3VQ
[21:20:33] <DagoRed> ud is urband dictionary
[21:20:34] <z64555> .ls
[21:20:41] <z64555> hmm.
[21:20:46] <robotustra> .help
[21:20:54] <robotustra> .ud help
[21:20:55] <makepi> robotustra: what i need - Entry 1/10.
[21:21:11] <DagoRed> hahaha
[21:21:14] <robotustra> DagoRed: is it eggdrop?
[21:21:17] <DagoRed> No help was written.
[21:21:18] <z64555> .ud 42
[21:21:19] <makepi> z64555: There is no definition for 4 at this time.
[21:21:21] <DagoRed> eggdrop?
[21:21:29] <DagoRed> .HaD 3
[21:21:29] <robotustra> alice?
[21:21:34] <makepi> DagoRed: 0.) Raspberry Pi Zero – Turning the Pi into a USB Gadget, over USB -
http://j.mp/1mJLWdm
[21:21:35] <makepi> DagoRed: 1.) SpacewΛr Comes to Life from Bonus Formlabs Printer Parts -
http://j.mp/1ITK6Bg
[21:21:37] <makepi> DagoRed: 2.) How to Find a Lost Drone with the Integral -
http://j.mp/1mJLWKo
[21:22:48] <Jak_o_Shadows> I'm not a huge fan of the maths courses on HAD
[21:22:50] <robotustra> what is the core of this chatbot?
[21:22:53] <Jak_o_Shadows> Not sure they're very well done.
[21:23:02] <DagoRed> robotustra: python
[21:23:16] <robotustra> DagoRed: what algorythm I mean
[21:23:28] <DagoRed> Whatever I felt like when writing it.
[21:23:48] <DagoRed> warning, lots of alcohol was consumed when making it.
[21:23:55] <DagoRed> like.... LOTS
[21:24:06] <robotustra> .us bad boys
[21:24:13] <robotustra> .ud bad boys
[21:24:13] <makepi> robotustra: A boy who will say he is a bad boy to attract [good girls]. Also known as a typical 17 year old male homo sapien. - Entry 1/10.
[21:24:38] <robotustra> .ud alcorobots
[21:24:39] <makepi> robotustra: There is no definition for alcorobots at this time.
[21:24:50] <z64555> There's a quote from Mark Twain
[21:24:58] <robotustra> .ud alcorobots are robots working on alcohol
[21:24:59] <makepi> robotustra: There is no definition for alcorobots are robots working on alcohol at this time.
[21:25:04] <z64555> "Write drunk, edit sober"
[21:25:12] <DagoRed> .wik alcorobots
[21:25:14] <makepi> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "alcorobots".
[21:25:21] <DagoRed> .wik alcor
[21:25:23] <makepi> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "alcor".
[21:25:32] <robotustra> .int alcobot
[21:25:32] <DagoRed> .g alcor robots
[21:25:33] <makepi> DagoRed:
http://www.dis.uniroma1.it/~alcor/
[21:25:55] <robotustra> .ud робот
[21:25:56] <makepi> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 0-4: ordinal not in range(128) (file "/bot/makepi/modules/urbandict.py", line 36, in lookupDef)
[21:26:04] <robotustra> ha ha
[21:26:13] <robotustra> fail
[21:26:16] <DagoRed> drunk
[21:26:17] <robotustra> I know that
[21:26:28] <DagoRed> seriously... I didn't even edit sober.
[21:26:42] <robotustra> it was cirillic
[21:26:52] <DagoRed> The entire bot was written as one thing.... could I make legit code drunk.
[21:26:55] <robotustra> ciryllic
[21:27:32] <robotustra> DagoRed: how are you going to find work if you can't write valid code drunk?
[21:27:38] <DagoRed> Anyway, it's there. I mostly abuse it for the RSS feed.
[21:27:48] <DagoRed> The bot works, it's valid enough.
[21:27:53] <robotustra> ok
[21:28:00] <z64555> lol.
[21:28:00] <robotustra> we accept it
[21:28:12] <robotustra> .ud are you building robots?
[21:28:13] <makepi> robotustra: There is no definition for are you building robots? at this time.
[21:28:14] <DagoRed> Also Python is my play language.
[21:28:28] <DagoRed> .ud willy wonka 6
[21:28:29] <makepi> DagoRed: When a girl you are in a 69 with has explosive diarrhea and turns loose on your face making you look like a boy eating a Willy Wonka bar on a hot summers day. - Entry 6/10.
[21:28:31] <robotustra> DagoRed: how to add definitions to your robot?
[21:28:44] <z64555> .ud program
[21:28:44] <DagoRed> Oh... I just add definitions to it.
[21:28:45] <makepi> z64555: The Program relates to taking recreational drugs, ie: speed, ecstasy, blow.... If you are 'on the program' it means you've been taking some kind or a mixture of these drugs for any length of time. - Entry 1/4.
[21:28:51] <z64555> yeoch.
[21:28:54] <DagoRed> .ud program 3
[21:28:55] <makepi> DagoRed: ta steal somethin from a person store or place - Entry 3/4.
[21:29:03] * DagoRed tilts head
[21:29:10] <robotustra> .ud program 5
[21:29:11] <makepi> robotustra: There is no definition for program at this time.
[21:29:21] <robotustra> .ud program 4
[21:29:22] <makepi> robotustra: The correct spelling is programme! - Entry 4/4.
[21:29:27] <DagoRed> Look at the entry stuff at the end, that helps a lot.
[21:29:32] <robotustra> .ud programme 0
[21:29:33] <makepi> robotustra: A Chick with a lot of issues and who requires vast amounts of attention. - Entry 0/2.
[21:29:42] <z64555> Yeah, urban dictionary might not be the safest to use. lol
[21:29:48] <DagoRed> nope
[21:29:56] <DagoRed> everything is awesome
[21:29:56] <makepi> DagoRed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d--sTdF1Ss0
[21:30:09] <DagoRed> If my CEO did that... I'd be so happy.
[21:30:57] <robotustra> so change CEO
[21:31:03] <robotustra> with the job
[21:31:51] <DagoRed> Working on it
[21:32:33] <robotustra> you know I can tell you. 99% of knowledge you had got in UNI - you'll not use it in production
[21:32:47] <robotustra> 1-2% only
[21:32:58] <robotustra> and it's not fun for me personally
[21:32:58] <DagoRed> I have actually. Especially when I was working with hard drive read channels.
[21:33:16] * DagoRed graduated 5 years
[21:33:23] <DagoRed> I miss my lab in college :(
[21:33:39] <robotustra> that's why I build robot
[21:33:50] <robotustra> I can use my knowledge there
[21:33:53] * z64555 sympathizes
[21:33:55] <robotustra> not in my work
[21:34:12] <DagoRed> Yeah... understood. Just need to get a job that will allow me to do so.
[21:34:29] <DagoRed> This current job has sent me to weird places, unappreciated, underpaid, and no free time.
[21:34:35] <DagoRed> It's time for something new.
[21:34:39] <robotustra> any 25-45$/h job
[21:34:53] <DagoRed> debating doing that.
[21:35:11] <robotustra> DagoRed: what is the most valuable in the life?
[21:35:14] <DagoRed> Last company I spoke too offered me $60/hr.. but backed out.
[21:35:28] <DagoRed> robotustra: time, and I got screwed with this job on it.
[21:35:35] <robotustra> it is
[21:35:42] <robotustra> "your time"
[21:36:11] <DagoRed> 100 hour weeks... I'm done.
[21:36:12] <robotustra> at work with "60$/h" you'll not have enough of time to do hobby
[21:36:28] <robotustra> wtf?
[21:36:34] <DagoRed> Not true, that's a contract job. Done in 6 months :-)
[21:36:55] <robotustra> and after have vacations for 6 month
[21:37:02] <DagoRed> Dude... I got screwed. 80 hour weeks are bad but the month of 100 hour work weeks, the 7 months without a weekend.
[21:37:21] <robotustra> DagoRed: I consider this stupid
[21:37:37] <robotustra> I work 40 hous a week and I think it's TOO MUCH
[21:37:40] <z64555> at least you weren't salaried
[21:37:47] <DagoRed> Yeah... I'm going to just quit tomorrow.
[21:37:49] <DagoRed> Literally
[21:37:52] <DagoRed> z64555: I am.
[21:37:57] <z64555> welp.
[21:38:09] <DagoRed> So yeah, started the job hunt tonight.
[21:38:33] <z64555> I'd put off quitting for a bit until you've god at least one potential in line
[21:38:38] <z64555> *got
[21:39:16] <z64555> At least that's what I recommend. I tend to be lazy and unmotivated
[21:39:16] <DagoRed> no time.
[21:39:21] <z64555> rgr.
[21:39:39] <DagoRed> I already did my homework, I'm filling with the state as quitting due to hostile environment.
[21:39:53] <DagoRed> Working christmas was the last straw... then getting stuck working new years. Fuck'em
[21:40:18] <robotustra> DagoRed: support
[21:40:29] <robotustra> 100 h is a hell
[21:40:44] <robotustra> it means work and sleep
[21:40:51] <robotustra> sleep 8 hours
[21:40:54] <robotustra> and work other
[21:40:57] <DagoRed> support is shared as level 2 on top of the regular development job that is mis managed.
[21:41:10] <robotustra> people even in startups do not work like this
[21:41:25] <DagoRed> My manager is trying to fire me anyway.
[21:41:33] <DagoRed> I'm walking out. I can't handle it anymore.
[21:41:35] <robotustra> even in Amazon people work less
[21:41:48] <robotustra> like 70h/week
[21:41:50] <DagoRed> Yeah... If I liked the job I'd be ok with it.
[21:41:53] <DagoRed> But I'm not... fuck it.
[21:43:19] <robotustra> are you paid hourly?
[21:44:01] <z64555> he mentioned he was salaried. so. flat rate regardless of how many hours he works
[21:44:04] <DagoRed> at this current job, no
[21:44:17] <z64555> Which really really sucks when you go over 40 hours
[21:44:21] <robotustra> that's bad man
[21:44:38] <z64555> because you end up getting, like. paid 0.01/hr
[21:44:47] <DagoRed> Anyway, already have been trying to get out of here for months. I got my data and I'm going to the state for an environment that is hostile.
[21:45:01] <DagoRed> Not that bad but it's minimum wage area.
[21:45:12] <z64555> best of luck :)
[21:45:18] <DagoRed> The lack of reimbursing expenses with travel is a kicker too.
[21:45:33] <DagoRed> Don't work for Datalogic in Telford.
[21:45:41] <DagoRed> *Telford, PA
[21:45:54] <DagoRed> Oregon has a sweet gig but not Telford.
[21:45:59] <robotustra> DagoRed: put your boss this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzc3QV1DA1A
[21:46:26] <DagoRed> My boss is about to have a law suit.
[21:47:11] <robotustra> from your side?
[21:49:32] * robotustra music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jt5GEr4AYg&index=2&list=RDfzc3QV1DA1A
[21:50:59] <DagoRed> robotustra: Yeah... I'm suing my boss.
[21:51:12] <DagoRed> If they don't give me unemployment that is.
[21:51:30] <DagoRed> Otherwise it's a hostile work environment case. Plain and simple.
[22:03:10] <DagoRed> .arstech 5
[22:03:18] <makepi> DagoRed: 0.) Lenovo will launch first Project Tango phone this summer, but won’t show it yet -
http://j.mp/1OSU3La
[22:03:19] <makepi> DagoRed: 1.) John Legere asks EFF, “Who the f**k are you, and who pays you?” -
http://j.mp/1ODFAqE
[22:03:21] <makepi> DagoRed: 2.) Asmodee becomes board gaming’s new monster, acquires English rights to Catan -
http://j.mp/1OSU1Dc
[22:03:23] <makepi> DagoRed: 3.) Governor declares state of emergency in connection with California methane leak -
http://j.mp/1ODFBuI
[22:03:25] <makepi> DagoRed: 4.) Judge: Lawyer who filed class-action suit against Apple is “manifestly incompetent” -
http://j.mp/1OSU3Lb
[22:12:42] <z64555> sometimes I wish I could just peel off a copy of my PC screen so I can show it to people
[22:13:06] <DagoRed> z64555: You mean screen capture? And why is that?
[22:13:30] <z64555> I don't use my printer often
[22:13:46] <z64555> *often enough to warrent having one. Since the ink dries up
[22:14:28] <DagoRed> screen shot and save it as a png for later.
[22:22:44] <z64555> yeah, but that's less dramatic
[22:22:46] <z64555> :P
