#robotics Logs

Dec 27 2015

00:02 RyanS http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/motoramps.mp4
00:02 Hyratel http://www.ebay.com/itm/APO-B2-Three-Features-a-DC-Brushed-Motor-PWM-Controller-ESC-Governor-/131684680764?hash=item1ea904c43c:g:CHIAAOSwJcZWfP6n
00:03 RyanS these motors are like mine
00:04 Hyratel dang
00:04 Hyratel hmm
00:04 Hyratel yeah but what voltage is he running
00:05 Hyratel for the same target RPM, you multiply out for the voltage amperage
00:05 Hyratel for 1HP/side, that's 120A @12v
00:05 RyanS but 48v http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM-MK3-roboteq.htm he wants speed, i dont care about speed
00:05 Hyratel but only 60A @24v
00:05 Hyratel stop
00:05 Hyratel your speed is a function of your motor's RPM at rated voltage
00:06 Hyratel and you are using them at rated voltage, yes?
00:07 RyanS i assume that its best to stick to rated?
00:07 Hyratel yes
00:07 Hyratel what's the rated voltage on your motors
00:07 RyanS 24
00:07 Hyratel to reduce speed, you gear down
00:08 RyanS yeah
00:08 Hyratel https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33593534/images/Robot/DSCN2011-1k2.jpg
00:09 Hyratel 4.7k RPM motors, into a 4.something gearbox, into 4:1 reduction chain
00:09 RyanS nice.. yours?
00:09 Hyratel yes
00:09 Hyratel 1/2HP per side
00:10 RyanS battery life?
00:12 Hyratel enough for fun
00:13 Hyratel it wasn't designed with long battery life in mind.
00:13 Hyratel if you're out driving a tank All Day, that would be one of your engineering goals
00:15 RyanS i can get 2 x 26aH SLA for $120.. im thinking tanks are less efficient so maybe 2, 3hrs
00:17 RyanS my wheelchair + me = erm 200kg, i'll get a day of battery life but going up hills, etc, much less
00:19 RyanS so i can build the tank even 60kg and still be fine
00:20 RyanS how much does your bot weigh?
00:28 Hyratel what's your GVW? for your trax
00:28 Hyratel and your Sprung Weight
00:28 zhanx Evening
00:28 Hyratel spruing weight does not include any parts that are in static contact witht he ground, such as track links on the bottom
00:30 RyanS i haven't worked that out.? Whats GVW
00:30 Hyratel gross vehicle weight
00:30 zhanx Unsprung weight is best
00:33 RyanS ah, batteries = 18kg. im hoping for 50kg GVW but these motors can easily do 5-6km/h on wheels & 200kg
00:33 Hyratel 110 lbs?
00:33 Hyratel tracks is going to contribute a lot to that weight
00:34 Hyratel hormes 9the linked design) is 60lbs
00:34 Hyratel a lot of that is the wheels and motors
00:34 Hyratel abotu 15? pounds for the battery
00:34 Hyratel it has BIG steel axles
00:34 Hyratel https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33593534/images/Robot/DSCN2016-1k2.jpg
00:36 RyanS so even 80kg, 90kg would give a 60-80kg payload
00:37 Hyratel no
00:37 Hyratel the ENTIRE DESIGN is 60 lbs
00:37 Hyratel that's without the added weight of Trax
00:38 Hyratel the tires are pretty squishy though so it can't move with a passenger
00:38 Hyratel too much rolling friction
00:38 Hyratel what's your target terrain
00:40 RyanS just grass, concrete -- i just want tracks for the cool factor :)
00:41 Hyratel beep
00:41 Hyratel bad idea
00:41 Hyratel tracks are not good for concrete
00:42 Hyratel they bind on steering torque
00:42 Hyratel trust me on this
00:42 Hyratel it'd only end in tears and ruined trax
00:43 RyanS hmm, why do tactical robots use tracks?
00:43 Hyratel because trax can go ANYWHERE
00:43 Hyratel the problem is large number of potential points of failure
00:43 Hyratel high wear rate (very high)
00:44 Hyratel high steering torque
00:44 Hyratel but if you want them for "the cools" you're setting yourself up for problems
00:46 RyanS what about double sided industrial timing belts as tracks? or inside out standard timing belts
00:46 Hyratel you still don't get it
00:47 Hyratel wear is wear, and you can't get around it
00:49 RyanS I do understand, tracks are very complex compared to wheeled. probably best not to overcomplicate
00:56 RyanS i have linear actuators so my goal is a mobile platform with a manipulator using the actuators. get an FPV camera and operate from a computer, so maybe an onboard WIFI router or something
00:56 RyanS wheels would be fine
00:59 RyanS this minus the scissor lift http://www.themachinelab.com/swatbot.html
01:05 Hyratel but what's yoru GVW?
01:08 RyanS i still have to design it, but the wheeled robot i linked is 150lbs or 68kg. so lets call my target 70kg
01:12 Hyratel that's your total curb weight?
01:14 RyanS i hope so, I think you might have sold me on the wheels idea. so no tracks
01:15 RyanS did you use wheelbarrow wheels?
01:17 Hyratel no - used the wheels you can get at harbor freight for $6-$7 each
01:17 Hyratel they're the hard nylon wheels, not the soft pink wheels
01:18 RyanS foam inside not pneumatic? What diameter?
01:19 Hyratel pneumatic
01:19 Hyratel 10"
01:19 ratel hums "Big Ten i
01:19 Hyratel but they're still fairly soft
01:20 Hyratel they're rate for 300#, but they bottom out on pavement at 200# across all four
01:20 Hyratel well not bottom out
01:20 Hyratel too much rolling friction, the patch is too large
01:20 Hyratel but they can pull a low-rolling friction trailer
01:31 RyanS http://tinyurl.com/pqpz2ne
01:33 Hyratel do you need the punctureproof foam?
01:35 RyanS yes, unless theres a compelling reason to use pneumatic ?
01:36 RyanS maintainence free i guess
01:37 Hyratel also low price
01:37 Hyratel pneumatic is a third the price, with comparable wear life
01:39 RyanS http://tinyurl.com/gko99sr perfect .. and cheap
01:40 Hyratel https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33593534/images/Robot/20131123_212647.jpg
01:41 Hyratel replace the bolts, use a PVC pipe that fits inside the bolt circle, get the sprockets from somewhere like Northern Tool
01:43 RyanS so you utilise the wheels bearings ? I can machine adapters etc, have a lathe
01:43 Hyratel yes, reuse the bearings
01:45 RyanS any reason chain vs timing belts?
01:54 Hyratel chain is incrementally adjustable to any half link length
01:54 Hyratel timing belt is a fixed length
01:54 Hyratel and not always easy to source in the length you want
01:55 RyanS true
02:00 RyanS i can weld a steel frame but meh, hard to get it aligned without proper clamping. What's the rigidity like on your frame ?
02:03 Hyratel plenty rigid
02:03 Hyratel that's 1/8" steel plate gussets on the corners
02:03 Hyratel and if it gets out of square, just smack it with a hammer to re-true it
02:08 rue_house I'v not re-squared my printer in ages and I think I know why everything seems to be crookid
02:14 RyanS you smacked your printer with a hammer?
02:36 rue_house sometiems the motors kick when the power shuts off
02:45 RyanS rue, what's the heaviest wheeled robot you've made with wheelchair motors? im thinking 70kg max is a good target for mine
02:47 Hyratel RyanS, you can go heavier with solid rubberwheels
02:48 Hyratel because the contac tpatch doesn't increase with added payload
02:48 Hyratel you just have to expect slower acceleration and higher battery drain
02:49 Hyratel http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3322.htm
02:49 Hyratel $370, and it's ONLY meant to run on carpet
02:49 RyanS hmm, im thinking solid is going to require some suspension
02:50 Hyratel does your payload need suspension?
02:50 Hyratel is it delicate?
02:50 Hyratel http://www.andymark.com/Wheel-s/229.htm
02:51 RyanS I wany to record video so i dont want huge vibration
02:52 Hyratel easier to stabilise the camera than the whole robot
02:53 Hyratel and the difference in stability in-motion between pneumatic and solid is low
02:53 Hyratel the difference is pneumatic can deflect around terrain controus
02:53 Hyratel contours
02:53 RyanS true, i guess low speed and pneumatic tyres is enough suspension
02:59 Hyratel no but seriously
02:59 Hyratel if you go much over 120 lbs with pneumatics, you're going to have a bad time
02:59 Hyratel at least the ones I showed you
02:59 Hyratel how fast are you going to be going
03:01 Hyratel what's the shaft output RPM of your gearbox?
03:01 RyanS 4 km/h seems resonable, less for indoors
03:01 RyanS 370rpm
03:01 Hyratel so
03:02 Hyratel https://socratic.org/scratchpad/268e0caa73575a4eabde
03:02 Hyratel use these notes to calculate your speeds
03:06 RyanS ha, 2.1mph is close... 3.2km
03:08 RyanS although wheelchairs have pneumatic and weigh heaps.. these motors are pretty gutsy
03:09 RyanS granted they have solid casters
13:45 rue_bed chain drive, interesting, most are gearbox direct
14:08 Hyratel rue_bed, that would have required four (more expensive) boxes and two more motors to get 4wd
14:09 Hyratel also, the gearboxes we had were low ratio (4.7:1) and would have overdrawn at low speed
14:10 Hyratel 4.67:1
14:11 Hyratel for a total ratio of 18.68
14:11 Hyratel gives a top speed of around 10mph
15:10 rue_shop3 anyone had issues with the filament pushing their extruder out?
15:10 akem hey
15:11 rue_shop3 hey
16:30 robotustra_ rue_shop3: wrong number of steps
16:30 robotustra_ ?
16:31 robotustra_ of swap 2 wires on stepper motor
17:20 dpg hey all.
17:20 dpg I'm building Playa. http://getplaya.com/
17:20 dpg I'm going to hang out here because it's lonely hacking alone. :P
17:21 dpg It's basically a cloud robotics platform, ie. heroku for intelligent agents
17:22 dpg I'm finishing up the provisioning api right now.
17:29 anonnumberanon So what was the deal with akem's servos? Did he burn them?
17:33 deshipu ask her/him/it
17:33 anonnumberanon he/she/that isn't here
17:49 theBear between saying how shit they were and how bad your advice is, and clearly mentioning things like 12v straight up, probly ashamed and sulking :)
17:53 anonnumberanon Hehe I am prepared to answer to any claims directly related to wrong advice given on my part. But wait, I work for MOTOROLA so I am very biased when it comes to all things SERVO-related!
17:55 theBear don't motorola make 90s analog phones and umm, walkie talkies ?
18:16 anonnumberanon i don't care I'll learn to make all, just hire me
18:17 theBear heh
18:17 theBear seriously tho, what do moto do with servos ?
18:19 dpg_ Motoralo is a huge company. I imagine they do something with servos.
18:21 theBear i don't doubt it really, just can't for the life of me think of ANYTHIGN they do thismorning except fones last century and walkies
18:21 eBear looks around for c
18:24 SpeedEvil Sat-phones
18:29 adv_ what kind of inverse kinematics are appropriate for octopus/squid-like tentacle simulation?
18:36 anonnumberanon theBear, I'd venture to say all sorts of credit card readers for stores, ones with satellite and or 3G/4G capability, I vaguely remember seeing the logo on one of those machines at the corner store
18:41 theBear hmm, i spose the banks that brand those machines sure as hell don't design and build 'em
18:42 theBear they must do a lotta stuff, i'm just blank thismorning
18:42 theBear not like we all know it and it a household name 'cos of walkie talkies and early expensive brick fones :)
18:43 theBear ooh, they DID run the analog fone network here come to think of it, that woulda needed some heavy electronics i guess
18:43 theBear ooh, infrastructure/design for an analog phone network, it's nasty and horrible to even think about
18:53 adv_ of do i need forward kinematics instead?
18:54 theBear err, ummmmm, huh ?
18:54 theBear oh, i see context
18:55 adv_ or*
19:04 robotustra_ dpg_: hi
19:06 robotustra_ < dpg> It's basically a cloud robotics platform, ie. heroku for intelligent agents
19:06 robotustra_ explain
19:25 dpg_ robotustra_: ok
19:25 dpg_ Playa is an open service exchange for autonomous agents to search, negotiate, and transact goods and services. The vision is having agents able to conscript services through interfaces autonomously, keeping stats, manifests, and whatever remotely. Playa is the remote interface to facilitate that exchange. Services being anything from image processing, to data science utilities, to knowledge and task graphs.
19:25 dpg_ The hope is that over time individual agents will contribute to a corpus of data other agents can tap into and modify, etc. I want to help make robots smarter, quicker. Basically sold off all my worldly possessions to crash in a van in palo alto, ca to build this stuff.
19:26 robotustra_ too abstract, give an example
19:26 dpg_ is that abstract? register robot, robot gets super powers from third party services.
19:27 robotustra_ name me the model at least of one of such robot
19:27 robotustra_ who can already connect to your service
19:28 dpg_ I'm not building it for robots that exist now. I'm building the platform so that I can build what I think is the next stage of robotics/cybernetics/IoE.
19:28 robotustra_ IoE - what is this?
19:28 dpg_ Internet of Everything.
19:29 dpg_ ""
19:29 robotustra_ I'm not sure you had chosen right direction
19:29 dpg_ Ah, what direction should I have chosen?
19:29 dpg_ I'm all ears.
19:30 dpg_ robotustra_: good talk.
19:30 robotustra_ I suppose that you are just finished come college in CS of so and try to stretch real world on your models
19:31 robotustra_ be patient I type slowly
19:31 robotustra_ robot gets super powers from third party services
19:31 robotustra_ I don't trust third party libraries
19:31 dpg_ hm, I've been coding since I ws 8-9, hacker/phreaker, network security, then degree in EE with a focus in autonomous robotics, Computational Chemistry, moved out to SF built a couple of startups, now I'm building this.
19:32 dpg_ ah, then that's the end of discussion. The future will be here whether or not you approve.
19:32 robotustra_ Are you Hotz?
19:32 dpg_ If you have something constructive you want to add, please message me.
19:32 dpg_ No. I'm @dpg
19:33 robotustra_ who is it?
19:33 robotustra_ show me your robot
19:33 dpg_ *sigh*
19:33 robotustra_ not necessary with AI
19:33 dpg_ Good talking with you robotustra_
19:33 robotustra_ all you agent programming is bullshit
19:34 robotustra_ sorry
19:34 dpg_ yep. totally bullshit. thanks.
19:34 robotustra_ it's wrong direction
19:34 dpg_ Yep. Thanks. Can you predict some more of the future for me? Perhaps some hot stock tips.
19:34 robotustra_ 50 years of fails in AI
19:34 robotustra_ I CAN
19:35 dpg_ alrighty. cheers.
19:35 robotustra_ but I'm not discussing about them with strangers
19:35 robotustra_ like you
19:35 robotustra_ You just pop up from nowhere
19:35 robotustra_ and you think you are ahead of all
19:36 robotustra_ and you are already bored making your agents
19:36 robotustra_ you want just sell it for good proce to everyone
19:36 dpg_ Nope. Just building my own thing. Thanks, though.
19:36 robotustra_ that's it
19:36 dpg_ Are you drunk?
19:36 dpg_ lol
19:36 robotustra_ I don't drink
19:36 robotustra_ thanks
19:37 robotustra_ I'm just describe you what I see from your 1 page site
19:37 dpg_ three pages.
19:37 robotustra_ and I know that' it's warm in Pal Alto
19:37 dpg_ contributors and the WIP documentation for the restful interface.
19:38 dpg_ it's actually cold as fuck here right now. :)
19:38 dpg_ so sleeping in my van sucks.
19:38 robotustra_ you are doing your agents on what language?
19:39 robotustra_ so, fire the engine
19:39 robotustra_ or take more blankets
19:39 dpg_ I'll be developing libraries in C++/Ruby/Python
19:39 robotustra_ oh, they are not ready yet?
19:40 dpg_ I'm building the web interface. that's the brunt of the work right now.
19:40 mrdata- if youre fucking cold, you are not doing it right
19:40 robotustra_ I'll do all my stuff in C and my own forth
19:40 robotustra_ mrdata-: true
19:40 dpg_ mrdata-: this is my first winter in my van, soooo I'm probably not doing it right. ;)
19:40 robotustra_ looks like he's looser
19:40 dpg_ I am a looser.
19:40 mrdata- dpg_, how much insulation do you have?
19:40 dpg_ ;)
19:41 robotustra_ dpg_: it was a joke
19:41 robotustra_ I'm also looser
19:41 dpg_ mrdata-: It's a 2000 dodge caravan se, I haven't done much to it yet.
19:41 mrdata- seems dodgy
19:41 dpg_ :rimshot:
19:42 robotustra_ Dan Gailey
19:42 robotustra_ not Galliley
19:42 dpg_ Gailey
19:42 mrdata- dpg_, what is the desired temperature difference, inside to outside?
19:42 robotustra_ my site is bigger
19:43 robotustra_ HoHO HO
19:44 robotustra_ my robot will not use English for internal work
19:44 robotustra_ for sure
19:44 robotustra_ so your agents are useless for me
19:44 dpg_ mrdata-: It probably gets down to 38F, I'd appreciate 65F
19:44 dpg_ robotustra_: cool. no worries.
19:47 robotustra_ what about security?
19:48 robotustra_ this model could invent only a guy whos daddy was a commisvoyageur
19:49 mrdata_ dpg_, the cooling is proportional to the surface area and the temperature difference between warm and cold sides, A*dT
19:49 mrdata_ and inversely proportional to the thickness of insulation
19:49 dpg_ that's an excellent question, and one I've not had a chance to answer fully yet. I do have a good friend who was the lead security over at twitter, and another who was on the security team at google that I'd like to enlist to help me spec out some great security.
19:50 dpg_ mrdata_: so add more insulation™
19:50 mrdata_ so if you have 300 sq ft surface area, and 1 inch thick, and it's too cold, then increase insulation to like 3 inch thick
19:50 mrdata_ this may not be practical in a minivan
19:51 mrdata_ idk
19:51 dpg_ Yeah, the problem is adding insulation is such a way that doesn't give away that I'm crashing in it.
19:51 dpg_ seems pretty impractical. I should have purchased a sprinter.
19:51 dpg_ easier to mod in this way.
19:51 mrdata_ winter outdoor rated sleeping bag, then
19:51 Hyratel turning a minivan into a solo-RV?
19:51 dpg_ I'm going to get rid of the back seats, make it more habitable. Maybe I can toss ina deep cycle battery charged by the alternator and an electric blanket.
19:52 dpg_ mrdata_: yeah
19:52 dpg_ Hyratel: basically.
19:52 Hyratel if you tear out the interior panelling, you might be able ot spray foam the back of the sheet metal
19:53 Hyratel and see if you can put down insulation board on the floor
19:53 mrdata_ what a hack
19:53 dpg_ Hyratel: I guess I don't need to resell the van.
19:53 mrdata_ that will make it obvious
19:53 Hyratel a full size van would be easier though - mainly because they dont' have the seats designed integral to the floor structure
19:54 Hyratel mrdata, not if you put the panelling and carpet back in
19:54 dpg_ Hyratel: agreed, but at the time of purchase I didn't realize I'd be crashing in PA where it's legal to sleep in your vehicle.
19:55 dpg_ so I made my purchasing decision with the idea to be as inconspicuous as possible.
19:55 robotustra_ C was introduced in 1979, C++ was introduced a bit later, it's passe a lot of years since that time and there is no any GOOD third party library for robots
19:56 robotustra_ the only more less working libraries are AHR-DUino..
19:56 robotustra_ shit
19:56 Hyratel robotustra, well you need a system that is non-blocking
19:56 robotustra_ I have
19:56 robotustra_ loop() {}
19:56 dpg_ robotustra_: I think ultimately it would be nice to have developed new components and operating system specifically designed for self aware autonomous agents.
19:57 Hyratel robotustra, you can still get stuck in a deep for() loop
19:57 robotustra_ dpg_: thanks, I go other direction
19:57 robotustra_ Hyratel: external watchdog
19:57 robotustra_ Hyratel: actually 2 chips which could reset each other
19:58 Hyratel no
19:58 dpg_ robotustra_: you're doing work with vision?
19:58 robotustra_ autonomous agents are not needed - it's a waste of resources
19:58 Hyratel if you need a reaction time of 50ms
19:58 robotustra_ I am
19:58 Hyratel and your for loop takes 60ms
19:58 robotustra_ Hyratel: it's all details
19:59 robotustra_ the loop could be as fast as a processor chosen
19:59 dpg_ robotustra_: hah
19:59 robotustra_ For my robot realtime will be 0.1 s
19:59 dpg_ alright enough IRC, back to code. <3 thanks for the chat.
20:00 robotustra_ dpg_: velcome
20:00 robotustra_ or w?
20:00 robotustra_ never mind
20:01 robotustra_ to code in a cold van - what a fun
20:01 robotustra_ americans think thay can do something proper in a cold van?
20:01 robotustra_ seriously?
20:02 robotustra_ robots are not just a lobraries
20:02 robotustra_ robots are not just a libraries
20:03 robotustra_ Hyratel: There are a lot of ways to make computatoin relyable
20:04 robotustra_ not a thousands agents doing the same thing
20:04 robotustra_ linux is good enouth for robots now
20:06 robotustra_ and one more thing
20:07 robotustra_ modern hardware is not ready yet for new type of special robot's OS
20:08 Hyratel parallax propeller
20:08 robotustra_ what is the start time for parralax?
20:08 Hyratel go find out
20:09 robotustra_ OS should be in the power independent memory which is not designed yet
20:09 Hyratel wtf are you on about
20:10 robotustra_ do you know about memory on memristors?
20:10 Hyratel yes. and I also don't know why you don't think RAM is suitable for robotics
20:10 Hyratel also
20:10 robotustra_ the os should be started in 0 sec from power up
20:10 Hyratel slow your talking so your brian can keep up
20:10 Hyratel and use the right terms
20:10 Hyratel you mean "NVRAM - nonvolatile RAM"
20:10 robotustra_ yes
20:11 robotustra_ nvram
20:11 robotustra_ I don't care about abbreviations
20:11 robotustra_ I know the principles of work
20:11 robotustra_ other things I don't care
20:12 Hyratel too bad
20:12 Hyratel you gotsta care if you want to talk about it
20:12 Hyratel because that's how you communiicate
20:12 robotustra_ no man, it's good
20:12 Hyratel if your robot tries to log into wifi but it doesn't know the wifi protocol
20:12 Hyratel you can't talk on wifi
20:13 Hyratel same deal
20:13 robotustra_ ok
20:13 Hyratel if you want to talk nerdy aboiut robots, you gotta use the nerdy words
20:13 robotustra_ shit, but you are right
20:14 robotustra_ I wanna get rid of wifi on my robot but I will use it for debug
20:14 robotustra_ too bad
20:15 robotustra_ I would like to use QNX but it's not free
20:15 robotustra_ pity
20:17 robotustra_ btw, some mersedes models have double glasses - may be the guy from van should buy one - may be to sleep in the mersedes will be warmer
20:17 robotustra_ or yeah, just cover van with poyurethan foam from outside
20:19 robotustra_ no ice this winter, go dirt https://www.facebook.com/alexandr.neroduk/posts/926092690812655
20:21 robotustra_ Hyratel: I'm not against new OS - but I'm against redoing of the step of work which was already done quite good. I think we should move forward and solve real tasks associated with autonomous robotics, but not go round and round improving existing things
20:22 robotustra_ we can rewrite OS, libs, but not move forward
20:22 Hyratel you're still not making sense
20:23 robotustra_ Hyratel: never mind
20:24 robotustra_ Hyratel: the guy dpg_ told he wants to make new OS
20:24 robotustra_ right?
20:24 Hyratel i wasn't listening at the time
20:28 robotustra_ so I need nvram computers in my robot
20:28 robotustra_ but they are not ready yet
20:29 robotustra_ do not exist yet
20:29 dpg_ you're talking about memristor components?
20:29 Hyratel no, you need NVRAM as a steandby for your robot
20:29 robotustra_ yes
20:29 Hyratel you're seriously overcomplicating this
20:29 Hyratel store mission-critical variables in nvram
20:29 dpg_ no he's talking about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memristor
20:29 Hyratel everything else goes in SRAM
20:29 robotustra_ I need all OS in such memory
20:29 Hyratel there's also FRAM
20:30 Hyratel someone's made a Pi Hat
20:30 Hyratel why?
20:30 Hyratel seriously
20:30 Hyratel explain it
20:30 robotustra_ too expensive yet
20:30 Hyratel no
20:30 Hyratel why do you need all OS in NVRAM
20:30 robotustra_ to start in 0 seconds
20:31 Hyratel why?
20:31 robotustra_ power up - and ready to go
20:31 Hyratel why?
20:31 robotustra_ because linux is booting too long
20:31 robotustra_ 7 seconds
20:31 Hyratel why?
20:31 dpg_ xmfd this conversation
20:32 robotustra_ dpg_: wut?
20:32 robotustra_ what is xmfd?
20:33 robotustra_ kind of LMAO
20:33 dpg_ XD = laughing, XMFD = laughing, but with an expletive exaggerating the expression.
20:33 robotustra_ MF - motherfucker
20:34 dpg_ el oh el ing
20:34 Hyratel robotustra, why is 7 seconds to boot too long?
20:34 robotustra_ I plan to boot all systems sequentially
20:35 Hyratel why
20:35 robotustra_ brain start first and boots all other stuff
20:35 robotustra_ because it can redoot all subsystems
20:35 Hyratel why?
20:35 robotustra_ power up, power down and reboot
20:36 robotustra_ just because it's right from my point of view
20:36 Hyratel why?
20:36 robotustra_ because
20:36 Hyratel why?
20:36 robotustra_ because
20:37 Hyratel why?
20:37 Hyratel I can think of Practical Reasons, myself
20:37 robotustra_ becsue if you were a subsytem of my robot it would reset you
20:37 Hyratel but I'm not telling you them
20:38 robotustra_ I can run them all together, but what if the brain sleep - the waising of energy is not good while the brain is sleeping
20:39 Hyratel stop
20:39 Hyratel you're approaching the logic from a dead-end direction
20:39 robotustra_ why?
20:40 mrdata-- 7 seconds is short unless your stuff is piloting something i suppose
20:40 robotustra_ right now linux on edison boots like 25 seconds about
20:40 robotustra_ it's too much
20:41 robotustra_ on BBB - 7-9 seconds
20:42 robotustra_ it's not real time thing even if I'll use 2 linux computers for redundancy
20:43 robotustra_ 1-2 seconds would be good enough
20:44 robotustra_ but for other things in robotics linux is good enough
20:45 Tom_itx use linux rtai
20:46 robotustra_ it's not a system itself, there are two real time units on BBB
20:46 robotustra_ but how can it help to boot linux faster?
20:47 robotustra_ only nvram could help
20:48 Hyratel robotustra, the BBB RTUs are like... arduino on the side
20:48 Hyratel robotustra, wrong
20:48 Hyratel boot smarter
20:48 Hyratel reduce unnecessary steps of the boot process
20:48 robotustra_ yeah it's optimisation
20:48 Hyratel divide your boot into Critical and noncritical components
20:49 Hyratel increase throughput speed of your ROM
20:49 robotustra_ most probably I'll load kernel and my application only
20:49 robotustra_ finally
20:49 robotustra_ no apache and no lpr services :)
20:57 robotustra_ linux is not a priblem, the problem is to controll 40 DC motors in sync
20:58 robotustra_ need to make own driver
21:00 botustra_ listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2saIopqJCKQ&t=1m45s
21:01 Hyratel robotustra, driver logic or driver hardware
21:02 robotustra_ hardware
21:02 Hyratel I2c
21:02 Hyratel give them all the same address
21:02 robotustra_ I need bidirectional DC motor, and a third wire
21:02 robotustra_ to lock
21:03 robotustra_ hold position
21:03 Hyratel the word you want is 'brake'
21:03 robotustra_ no, the value will be different
21:03 Hyratel the word is brake
21:03 robotustra_ as you wish
21:03 robotustra_ brake
21:04 Hyratel the brake can be Bridge Brake (motor braking) where it shorts the leads of the motor, or it can be a mechanical brake, actuated electromagnetically
21:04 robotustra_ no, I need mechanical break of motor axis
21:04 Hyratel brake
21:05 robotustra_ brake
21:05 Hyratel if you break it, your motor won't work
21:05 robotustra_ typo
21:05 Hyratel don't break the brake
21:05 robotustra_ not just shorting of coils in the motor
21:06 Hyratel the low speed holding torque of motor braking is low
21:06 Hyratel so you'll have a solenoid brake on each motor
21:06 robotustra_ small enough I think not more than 1N*cm
21:07 robotustra_ small enough I think not more than 0.5N*cm
21:07 Hyratel solenoid brake like found on wheelchair motors
21:07 SpeedEvil NSFW!!!
21:08 SpeedEvil NSFW http://imgur.com/gallery/grMtJ31
21:08 SpeedEvil (though related)
21:08 robotustra_ SpeedEvil: lol
21:09 robotustra_ Hyratel: give me a link to such motor?
21:11 Hyratel http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jazzy-1121-power-wheelchair-drive-motors-with-gearboxes-and-brakes-/131675652814
21:13 robotustra_ I need t make brake on such motors http://www.ebay.com/itm/181494571304?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
21:13 Hyratel your'e SOL
21:14 Hyratel also
21:14 Hyratel why do you need a brake
21:15 robotustra_ I'm not sure it will hold the position
21:15 robotustra_ if it will I'm lucky
21:16 Hyratel stop being so cagey
21:16 Hyratel what are you doing with those motors
21:16 robotustra_ arm
21:17 robotustra_ 30 DOF
21:17 Hyratel uhm
21:17 Hyratel yeah
21:17 robotustra_ may be less a bit
21:17 Hyratel those won't have torque for shit
21:17 robotustra_ really?
21:17 robotustra_ did you try them?
21:17 Hyratel really
21:18 robotustra_ do you know what reductor I'll use?
21:18 Hyratel no, but I know enough about motors to say that
21:18 Hyratel you still don't get it
21:18 robotustra_ don't get what?
21:18 Hyratel those are for things like opening the shutters in a pocket camera
21:18 robotustra_ the force?
21:18 Hyratel tiny things
21:18 robotustra_ 1 W?
21:19 robotustra_ 30 by 1 Watt = 30 Watts
21:19 robotustra_ big power for hand
21:20 robotustra_ each finger 3 W, 5 by 3W = 15 watts grip
21:20 robotustra_ each finger 3 W, 5 by 3W = 15 watts grep
21:20 Hyratel yeah no
21:20 Hyratel those are very weak motors
21:20 robotustra_ I'll try anyway
21:20 Hyratel 30 mA, with no indication of stall current?
21:20 robotustra_ throw them
21:21 Hyratel you might get a very small tabletop driving with them
21:21 robotustra_ http://www.ebay.com/itm/172010920664?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
21:21 Hyratel but only on the order of a few dozen grams
21:21 robotustra_ I also want to try these ones
21:21 Hyratel that one isn't marked as 'coreless"
21:23 robotustra_ does it matter?
21:23 Hyratel yes
21:23 robotustra_ I need actually a few dozens of gramms
21:24 robotustra_ per 1 cm
21:24 robotustra_ it's big torque for me
21:24 Hyratel ok, I was mistaken, forgot my terminology
21:24 Hyratel http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319410
21:25 robotustra_ ah, ok
21:25 anonnumberanon Hyratel, you and me are not done with the space tech project.
21:25 anonnumberanon But I'll be slaving with my move for the next week.
21:25 Hyratel ANA, you mean the colony seed?
21:26 anonnumberanon yeah lol, it be cool to CAD some of the ideas we had
21:26 Hyratel one criticial aspect will be "genericity"
21:26 onnumberanon stares at Hyr
21:26 Hyratel one type of "large motor" will have to be able to do anything you'd want from a large motor
21:27 Hyratel which tank was it, that had a "small bolt" and a "large bolt"?
21:27 anonnumberanon Oh so a really flexible multi-use motor.
21:27 Hyratel yes
21:27 Hyratel you'll want a Small Motor, and a Large Motor
21:27 Hyratel it's easier to make a 2- 3- 4-+ motor gearbox than it is to wind a motor
21:28 Hyratel so you'd have plural motor ganging in synchronised operation
21:28 anonnumberanon Yes I agree. Without really knowing, but I can see that as the better engineering decision.
21:28 Hyratel this would end up with "caterpillar wheel" designs
21:29 Hyratel due to the spreading of weight across [enough wheels and axles]
21:29 Hyratel because you'd do the same with wheel assemblies
21:29 Hyratel a "light wheel" and a "heavy wheel"
21:29 robotustra_ so, coreless is better
21:30 anonnumberanon I'll finish my raytracer so we can show 3D animation if we draw anything.
21:30 anonnumberanon We'll start with 3D cubes.
22:10 anonnumberanon Hyratel, like the beginning of this video, should be good for further brain storming https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vJuowAITCQ&feature=youtu.be
22:13 Hyratel neat use of regular mesh for exhaust
22:14 Hyratel and it looks intriguiongly good
22:36 anonnumberanon oh, yeah, best programmers doing art in extremely small size programs
23:20 Casper I need to drill a hole in a rod to transform it into a "pipe", as centred as possible... does anyone have a good trick for that?
23:20 Casper without a lathe?
23:21 Hyratel use a lathe
23:37 theBear to make lamps they used to split the thing in two then put it back together
23:37 theBear or just make it in two
23:42 Jak_o_Shadows Could you just get a pipe?
23:43 theBear that'd be way too easy
23:43 Jak_o_Shadows (well, I THINK I'm helpful)