#robotics Logs

Dec 24 2015

08:41 AgnanoD specially i'm interesting the part that hold the spindle and move it up/down.i think this is the most difficault part to achive.
08:42 SpeedEvil Accuracies, materials?
08:43 veverak AgnanoD: I've got only forum in czech language... but it got quite a nice range of high quality opinion (if you know who got proper/not proper)
08:44 veverak anyway, how much do you know about the topic?
08:44 veverak CNC are quite complex things :)
08:47 SpeedEvil It is very easy to make a CNC router.
08:47 SpeedEvil Making one inexpensively with designed performance is harder
08:49 verak likes the idea of CNC kit from china to s
08:49 veverak *mechanical only
08:49 veverak buy proper spindle and motors and go! :)
08:51 SpeedEvil #linuxcnc also
08:53 veverak yeah!
08:53 veverak http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-ship-CNC-3020-DIY-CNC-Frame-with-ball-screw-optical-axis-and-bearings/1958115282.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.27.dusNFj&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_2_79_78_77_82_80_62,searchweb201560_8
08:53 veverak this is the kit
08:53 veverak :)
09:00 AgnanoD veverak, ill check it now thanks
09:00 AgnanoD its expensive
09:01 AgnanoD because in kickstarter there are already cnc machine that works
09:01 AgnanoD in less money
09:01 AgnanoD also this kit dont include the motors
09:03 AgnanoD 349$ working cnc: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/464808174/whittlecnc-high-quality-affordable-small-footprint/description
09:04 AgnanoD i think ill buy this one
09:05 robotustra_ AgnanoD: to mill wood?
09:09 veverak well
09:09 veverak if you think it's good idea
09:09 veverak :D
09:12 AgnanoD robotustra_, why?
09:12 AgnanoD it doesnt engrve wood?
09:13 robotustra_ first ask yourself what do you want to mill, and at what precision
09:13 AgnanoD mainly wood max 4mm and cardboard
09:14 AgnanoD now for the precision i dont know how to tell
09:14 AgnanoD ouch i got2go again
09:14 AgnanoD sorry
09:14 robotustra_ now you can aswer to the question - is it the only things are you going to mill?
10:26 jhylands I have to say, I'm really impressed with James Bruton's BB8 droid (the second version)
10:26 jhylands https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut-B9PStF0M
10:35 deshipu the idea is nice, but I don't like how he adds dead weight to it
10:43 SpeedEvil No reason the weight can't be batteries
10:44 jhylands deshipu, are you talking about the coin rings?
10:47 deshipu jhylands: the coins, the bearing balls, all the stuff he loads in there
10:48 deshipu jhylands: instead of making a proper design and putting batteries in there ;)
10:48 jhylands well, the coins are dual-purpose, stabilized weight plus a flywheel that rotates the robot
10:48 deshipu the heavier the robot is, the harder it is to control
10:49 deshipu he's completely disregarding his weight budget
10:49 deshipu jhylands: it's not just that he adds weight, he does that without much planning
10:49 deshipu jhylands: that's what annoys me
10:50 jhylands I suppose you could build a full mechanical gyroscope inside, which contains everything inside it
10:50 jhylands then the entire weight of the insides would be available to stabilize it
10:50 deshipu impossible to have all the weight equally distributed
10:51 veverak or just fill the 'ring' with batteries
10:51 deshipu that would wobble
10:51 veverak :)
10:51 jhylands deshipu, you could balance it
10:51 jhylands it would be difficult, but possible
10:51 deshipu I don't claim I know better solutions
10:51 deshipu I'm just annoyed at the way he comes with his
10:51 deshipu not even at the solutions he comes with
10:52 deshipu but with this "I have no idea what I'm doing" aspect
10:52 jhylands I don't like all his solvent welding stuff
10:52 deshipu I guess he's learning along and that's good
10:52 jhylands I prefer using mechanical fasteners for everything so you can take it apart
10:52 jhylands but you need to be very precise for that to work
10:52 deshipu jhylands: yup, sooner or later everything breaks or needs replacement
10:53 deshipu glue is the dark side
10:53 deshipu it's easy to start with
10:53 deshipu but corrupts your design ;)
10:57 deshipu I don't have an engineering degree or anything, but I came to appreciate some of the unwritten rules engineers use
10:57 jhylands same
10:59 rue_bed on the really dark side is cardboard and wood
11:00 jhylands don't forget hot glue guns
11:00 rue_bed screw things, use metal and plastic
11:00 deshipu metal is hard to work with
11:00 deshipu I recenlty bought a sheet of depron or something similar
11:00 jhylands I love 3D printing with ABS, because I can drill & tap it for #4-40 machine screws
11:00 deshipu that is golden at the scales I work with
11:00 rue_bed be aware that plastic dosn't like UV and that metal will crack if bent too many times
11:01 deshipu it's light, relatively sturdy, but you can cut it with a knife
11:01 rue_bed sounds like you need to good metal tools
11:01 rue_bed drill and jigsaw
11:01 deshipu rue_bed: no power tools for me
11:01 rue_bed how big are the things your building
11:01 deshipu rue_bed: they mostly fit in the palm of your hand
11:01 rue_bed ah, hmm
11:02 jhylands I have a pair of Sherline tools - a manual lathe and a CNC mill
11:02 rue_bed sheet metal
11:02 deshipu rue_bed: tried it, hate it
11:02 rue_bed if your really good at designing things right, you can make sheet metal things that are strong
11:02 rue_bed it takes special technique
11:03 rue_bed sheet metal is evil cause it will cut you any chance it gets
11:03 deshipu rue_bed: the back of the keyboard I made recently for my girlfriend is sheet steel -- took me several days to cut the rough shape, and it's still not perfect
11:03 jhylands they are really good for non-ferrous metals and plastics
11:03 deshipu jhylands: why not for ferrous metals?
11:03 deshipu jhylands: also, careful with lathe and copper
11:03 rue_bed you can get flashing in steel or aluminum
11:03 jhylands deshipu, I can do steel and such (I've even machined tungsten on it)
11:04 deshipu rue_bed: flashing is not the worst thing, the fact that it turns into something like rubber is
11:04 jhylands but its a lot more work, and I'm definitely not a machinist
11:04 rue_bed your designing the parts wrong if its turning to rubber
11:04 deshipu it catches your tools
11:04 rue_bed sounds like you need a build technique that works for you
11:04 deshipu and can drag you in
11:05 rue_bed you can punch holes in aluminum sheet metal with a paper punch
11:05 jhylands I mainly use Delrin for plastic (for machining), and brass and aluminum for metals
11:05 deshipu it's not impossible to machine copper, but you have to be very careful
11:05 jhylands and ABS for 3D printed parts
11:05 rue_bed deshipu, why no power tools?
11:07 deshipu rue_bed: I do it in my home, in my office
11:07 rue_bed yea, that dosnt' matter
11:07 deshipu I don't have a proper workshop
11:07 deshipu it does for me
11:08 jhylands my office is a ten-foot square room, I have my computers, my electronics desk, my 3D printer, the mill and lathe
11:08 rue_bed power tools dont mean making a mess
11:08 jhylands my larger power tools (table saw, drill press, etc) are in the garage
11:08 rue_bed you just want to use a vacuum table to make sure it stays clean
11:09 rue_bed or the like
11:09 deshipu I can imagine what my girlfriend would say if she came back home and saw a vacuum table in here
11:10 jhylands my wife has her own room, so I do what I want in here :-)
11:11 rue_bed well if you dont think you can do anything without making a mess and if your partner is interested in you not doing these things, you have a losing battle
11:11 deshipu right
11:11 deshipu I'm also don't sure I'd like to go in that direction
11:11 rue_bed so tell me what kinda robot you want, I'll build and sell it to you
11:12 deshipu I like to keep things small
11:12 SpeedEvil The solution is obvious.
11:12 deshipu rue_bed: a legged robot the size of my hand able to climb my furniture ;)
11:12 SpeedEvil You start with an excavating machine.
11:12 rue_bed I'll build the first one for you for just $1500
11:13 rue_bed ok
11:13 deshipu and dust it
11:13 rue_bed sure
11:13 deshipu rue_bed: but the fact is that I don't enjoy *owning* robots, I enjoy building them,
11:14 deshipu in fact, I probably own too many alrady
11:14 deshipu already
11:14 rue_bed you cant build them
11:14 rue_bed if your girlfriend cuaght you she would freak
11:14 deshipu I am buildingthem
11:14 jhylands deshipu, I'm kind of the same, but I'm hoping with Roz I'll finally be able to actually work on the software side some more
11:14 rue_bed deshipu, what you need is to find a hackspace
11:14 rue_bed have you looked?
11:15 deshipu jhylands: I keep telling myself this, and then it sits there for months with "only software left to do"
11:15 deshipu rue_bed: I have several hackerspaces a throwing stone distance from here, and I do use them
11:15 rue_bed so, whats the issue with using metal then?
11:16 deshipu I prefer rock
11:16 deshipu progressive rock
11:16 rue_bed I give up
11:16 jhylands deshipu, I've been working lately on parameterizing ellipses so I can change my gait to use IK all the time instead of doing interpolation
11:16 SpeedEvil deshipu: don't think of it as owning, but as having robot minions.
11:16 deshipu SpeedEvil: if only they could do anything useful
11:16 deshipu most of them are half-broken
11:16 rue_bed jhylands, sounds like you just want nonlinear interpolation
11:17 jhylands yeah, turns out its really hard to do along the circumference of an ellipse
11:17 jhylands but we found an approximation algorithm that works pretty well
11:18 rue_bed how about linear interpolation along a path of points that lies on an elipse
11:18 jhylands I don't want to do interpolation at all
11:18 deshipu jhylands: I want to get there with my pi zero bot
11:18 deshipu jhylands: or maybe when openmv finally ships
11:18 jhylands I'm doing this in MicroPython
11:19 deshipu the boards that run micropython that I have currently are not up for the task
11:19 jhylands this is what it looks like, coded in Smalltalk: http://puu.sh/m6lK5/df2fd7cf78.png
11:19 jhylands deshipu, I'm using the board on Roz, which is functionally identical to the official pyboard
11:19 jhylands don't forget they do hardware floating point
11:19 rue_bed this is where I make a sarcastic joke that you should upgrade to a 4Ghz processor with 12G of ram so you can use java
11:20 jhylands rue_bed, we're using Python
11:20 deshipu jhylands: esp8266 certainly does not
11:20 deshipu jhylands: and neither does micro:bit
11:20 rue_bed cause, there is nothing like flashing an led in the most inefficient way you can
11:20 jhylands rue_bed, do you know about MicroPython
11:21 rue_bed at heart I'm an assembler programmer
11:21 rue_bed I use C cuase I know what its generating in assembler
11:21 deshipu jhylands: rue_bed only programs in machine language with a butterfly
11:21 jhylands rue_bed, I try to solve problems with code, I don't care how the computer does it as long as it works
11:21 rue_bed I dont like using really high level languages to do simple things, cause of the amount of overhead and resources it pointlessly eats
11:21 deshipu also, micropython lets you have inline assembly ;)
11:22 jhylands rue_bed, who cares how much resources it wastes?
11:22 jhylands I'm not building commercial products
11:22 rue_bed and how much extra processor speed and ram does it take just so you can use python?
11:22 jhylands it runs on a 32 bit ARM chip
11:23 rue_bed exactly, if you need a 2Ghz machine with 512M of ram to position a servo, that I can do with a 8Mhz mega328, nobody cares
11:23 rue_bed but I do.
11:23 rue_bed I'm the nobody who cares!
11:23 jhylands I don't need a 2 GHz machine
11:23 deshipu it's a harsh religion
11:23 jhylands its a $12 chip instead of a $2 chip
11:23 rue_bed I'm also the nobody who buys the things at the store they dont restock cause "nobody buys it"
11:24 rue_bed jhylands, exactly, but I care
11:24 jhylands I'm trying to solve specific problems, and I use what I consider the best tool for it, and I don't really care how much it costs (within reason of course)
11:24 rue_bed I know
11:25 jhylands which is why I use AX-12 servos, and ARM chips
11:25 jhylands but Roz is a lot more complicated than flashing an LED
11:26 rue_bed and I have 5 mega32s running 4 PD loops ea on geared motors with pots on a common serial bus
11:29 jhylands what are you using those for?
11:32 jhylands rue_bed, ^^^
11:55 rue_house my hexapod
11:56 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_III/p1050598.jpg
11:56 rue_house I really need to update that page too
11:57 jhylands you need a slightly less busy picture
11:57 rue_house hah, that dosn't happen in my shop
11:57 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_III/p1020056.jpg
11:57 jhylands does building your own servos give you any real advantage other than personal satisfaction?
11:58 rue_house power , stability
11:58 rue_house low low cost digital servos
11:58 rue_house 10 bit
11:58 rue_house you see, all my projects prettymuch fit into a $20 budget
11:59 jhylands $20 for the whole thing?
11:59 rue_house that one is almost at the 200% limit tho
11:59 rue_house I think I have about $37 into that
11:59 rue_house yea
11:59 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/robot_family2.jpg
11:59 jhylands I place too much value on my time to worry about that level of spending
11:59 rue_house all on $20 budgets
12:00 deshipu and impossible to repeat
12:00 rue_house yea, I do LOTS of projects
12:00 rue_house so they need to be low budget,
12:00 rue_house experience is gained / project, not in the project details
12:00 jhylands I do lots of projects too, but they tend to be a little more pricey
12:01 rue_house I dont finish all my projects, but I learn great things from each one
12:01 jhylands I'm pretty sure I spent close to $1000 for Seeker 2x
12:01 rue_house yea, I dont have disposable income :)
12:01 jhylands in that case your compromise (time instead of money) makes sense
12:02 rue_house but I'm down to just $70000 on my mortguage!
12:02 jhylands nice
12:03 deshipu gauge
12:13 rue_house the other thing I like about being a hobbyist, is that I never need to worry about having the parts to make more than one of something, which means I dont have to worry about carefully documenting my design or using parts that are still avialable in mass quantity
12:14 deshipu I'm pretty happy that I made my robot so easy to make (and cheap) that I have three of them in slightly differening versions, and can experiment with them
12:15 deshipu I can run several experiments in parallel
12:15 rue_house yea, its one of the nice things about a cheap build, I started re-using deisgned parts in my robot arms, the last one I did almost put itself togethor
12:16 deshipu last time I actually timed myself, I can put this robot together from off-the-shelf parts in half an hour
12:16 rue_house (arm 7, 8, 9) http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/
12:16 deshipu including all soldering
12:17 veverak :D
12:17 veverak damn it
12:17 veverak ros again doesn't want to compile from repo
12:17 veverak nah
12:17 deshipu veverak: kill it with fire
12:17 rue_house get a version of ros written in micropython :)
12:17 veverak need more gasoline
12:17 veverak :)
12:18 deshipu rue_house: hmmm...
12:18 deshipu rue_house: good idea ;)
12:18 rue_house or get an x86 emulator, run linux and standard python
12:18 deshipu you would need an sd card to swap to
12:19 rue_house just use several boards and cluster them
12:19 deshipu have each one emulate one register ;)
12:20 jhylands we've been experimenting with Tiny Core Linux on the pi
12:20 rue_house na, use the open source clustering software
12:20 jhylands its pretty interesting
12:20 deshipu rue_house: openstack!
12:20 deshipu YES
12:20 jhylands boots from powerup to login prompt in 12 seconds on a pi 2
12:20 deshipu rue_house: it's written in python, should be easy to port ;_)
12:20 rue_house jhylands, it cant beat my apple IIe then :(
12:20 deshipu ze kloud
12:20 rue_house why does technology go backwards in so many ways
12:21 jhylands well, it is running a full linux kernel
12:21 deshipu rue_house: it goes in all the directions
12:21 rue_house prevalently backwards tho
12:21 deshipu jhylands: reminds me how I ran ELMS on an XT
12:21 rue_house :)
12:21 jhylands in any case, Tiny Core Linux uses MicroPython as its scripting language
12:21 deshipu jhylands: I only had one disk drive, and it required two 360kB diskettes
12:22 rue_house I remember being sad they weren't gonna backport povray to the 286, I had a LOT of 286 baords I wanted to cluster render on
12:22 deshipu jhylands: one was kernel, one was user space
12:22 deshipu hmm,
12:22 deshipu ELKS
12:22 deshipu not ELMS
12:22 jhylands the guy who wrote POVRAY (David Buck) is a friend of mine
12:22 rue_house cool!
12:23 deshipu this world is too small
12:23 deshipu I demand a larger world
12:23 rue_house he's the one who rewrote it from... ..... ...
12:23 rue_house I forgot
12:23 jhylands he's another hard-core Smalltalk guy
12:24 rue_house I forgot what most of povray was made from...
12:24 deshipu string and paperclips?
12:24 rue_house iirc there was an engine it was a complete overhaul of
12:24 deshipu like perl was an overhaul of awk? ;)
12:25 rue_house I really wanted to write a wireframe engine with the same parser
12:25 deshipu it's been years since I used povray :(
12:25 rue_house yea, I admit that too
12:25 deshipu only playing with openscad now
12:25 rue_house but I still use the desktop image I made with it
12:25 rue_house I still have all my robot walking code in povray
12:26 rue_house maybet hats all the ik...
12:26 jhylands I wrote a 3D engine almost 20 years ago in Smalltalk to build levels for the game Descent
12:26 rue_house er fk...
12:26 deshipu I wish there was an openscad-like program or library that would output SVG images :)
12:26 jhylands but I've never used povray
12:26 deshipu like, you know, make 2d polygons that together show the 3d image
12:26 rue_house I'm gradually raking togethor a libnraruy of drafting functions
12:27 rue_house for making a drafting rogram
12:27 deshipu I wonder how long until there is online, js-based version of openscad
12:27 e_house shud
12:27 jhylands deshipu, that's essentially what a 3D engine does - the transformations end up with flat 2D polygons you draw on the screen
12:28 rue_house ok I have to got get mail
12:28 rue_house I need a frame work for a app that has a text command input window, and a graphic window over it
12:28 deshipu jhylands: well, nowadays you use opengl that does that for you
12:28 rue_house in the same window, so i guess frames
12:28 jhylands sure, but I wrote my engine before I knew about OpenGL, so I did it from scratch
12:29 veverak deshipu: there is afaik
12:29 veverak :)
12:29 rue_house the text input seems to be the hard part, you cant apply lib.... getline (?) to a gui text box
12:30 shipu tried opensca
12:30 jhylands http://huv.com/smalltalk/desedit.html
12:30 deshipu rue_house: there is a nice commandline library for python
12:30 jhylands I guess it was 20 years ago
12:30 rue_house C. C all the way for me
12:30 deshipu rue_house: with all the stuff, tab completion, menus, color highlighting
12:31 deshipu rue_house: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/prompt_toolkit/0.28
12:31 rue_house hmm
12:31 rue_house python is easy to integrate
12:31 deshipu rue_house: I met the guy who wrote it at FOSDEM
12:32 rue_house one of the things I'v learned tho is to NOT include big pieces of other peoples code, cause it changes too often, unless you only ever plan to compile it once
12:32 deshipu or pin the version
12:32 deshipu always pin the version
12:33 rue_house that dosn't work when the source goes away and the version control software changes 3 times
12:33 deshipu that somehow doesn't happen with python too often
12:33 rue_house look at th trail of descruction sicne CVS
12:33 deshipu pypi is for free, no reason to delete versions
12:34 jhylands woot - my black ABS material cartridge just arrives
12:34 jhylands arrived
12:34 deshipu cartridge?
12:34 jhylands time to redo Roz
12:34 deshipu you philistine!
12:34 deshipu real hackers make their own filament
12:34 deshipu with their fists!
12:35 jhylands that would be hard with my 3D printer
12:35 deshipu build a different one
12:35 deshipu with your fists!
12:36 jhylands no thanks, I prefer to build robots
12:37 deshipu technically it's a robot...
12:39 deshipu there was that guy who built a hybrid hexapod and 3d printer
12:39 deshipu just needed very precise IK
12:41 deshipu sooo, soldering an ESP8266 flat on a board with other stuff where the wifi antenna is might have been a mistake
12:41 deshipu it has trouble connecting
12:43 deshipu ugh
12:44 deshipu the pwm signal from this thing is trash
12:44 deshipu garbage
12:46 veverak :D
12:46 deshipu either that, or there is random traffic in the serial pinm
12:46 deshipu which I reuse for servo
12:47 deshipu makes funny sounds when I program the board through the serial :P
13:15 rue_house deshipu, how amny servos on your robot?
13:16 akem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk-l7jfWVoI
13:16 rue_house 18?
13:16 deshipu rue_house: this one has 8
13:16 rue_house quadroped?
13:17 rue_house funny you saying the pwm is junk, after I keep trying to get everyone to use mine because I made it specifically to have stable, good pwm
13:17 akem i would buy this tico 3 d printer if it was available
13:17 deshipu rue_house: https://cdn.hackaday.io/images/1081611450906084702.jpg
13:17 deshipu rue_house: well, yours doesn't work on esp8266, I suppose?
13:17 rue_house I wonder if I ccan do 9600 baud serial over a 38Khz ir link
13:18 rue_house you use a dedicated mega328, its just a 9600 baud serial line
13:18 rue_house oh, its upside down
13:18 rue_house hah
13:19 rue_house what are the battery specs?
13:20 deshipu 1S 350mA 20C lipo
13:20 rue_house ooo lv
13:20 rue_house whats your current controller?
13:20 deshipu servos are fed directly from the lipo, the esp8266 has a linear regulator
13:21 deshipu to 3.3V
13:21 rue_house hey, the esp8266 is just serial out
13:21 rue_house so you could totally talk to the servo controller I made
13:22 rue_house you would need 2, which is doable, you can gang up to 4 on one serial bus
13:22 rue_house er, no, you only have 8 servos
13:22 rue_house so, just 1
13:22 veverak wait
13:22 veverak it's arduino software
13:22 rue_house can that thing really balance with just 8 servos
13:22 veverak or I need some hardware for it ?:)
13:23 rue_house you have to run it on a dedicated mega328, or the timing will be crap
13:23 rue_house I use arduino pro mini's
13:23 rue_house cause then I dont ahve to make a board
13:23 deshipu rue_house: I have a similar one working
13:23 rue_house deshipu, with crap timing?
13:23 rue_house deshipu> the pwm signal from this thing is trash
13:24 rue_house mine has rock stable pwm, high rez too
13:24 deshipu rue_house: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux6WOJ-ww_4
13:24 rue_house we been over this
13:24 deshipu rue_house: no, the one I have is arduino-based
13:24 deshipu rue_house: now I'm making a smaller one based on the esp
13:24 rue_house wow, the balance point must be trickey
13:24 deshipu you just sway to the sides
13:24 rue_house how far are you listing to tip it into the 3 legs?
13:25 deshipu about 20°
13:25 rue_house but you still need the arduino to break out all the lines
13:25 rue_house cool
13:25 deshipu no, esp has 9 usable gpio pins
13:26 rue_house the controller would have way too much going on to put out good pwm tho
13:26 deshipu the servos are digital, so they cope
13:26 rue_house to have proper pwm, you cant have multiple interrupt sources going off
13:26 rue_house ah
13:26 rue_house so...
13:26 rue_house deshipu> the pwm signal from this thing is trash
13:26 rue_house ^^ ?
13:27 deshipu yeah
13:27 deshipu well, it twitches sometimes
13:28 deshipu I could have used an atmega, but then there is no point
13:28 deshipu I mean, I've done robots with that already
13:28 deshipu no challenge
13:29 rue_house but if you are using digital servos you dont need pwm
13:29 rue_house !??!??!!
13:29 deshipu but I do
13:29 deshipu those are still hobby servo
13:30 deshipu they take pwm
13:30 rue_house then they are reffered to as analog servos
13:30 deshipu it's just they parse it in software
13:30 rue_house the twitching, my controller dosn't do that
13:30 rue_house cause the interrupts are written properly
13:30 deshipu they have microcontrollers on board that analyzes the pwm, calculates pid and controls the h-bridge
13:30 rue_house well, 99% properly
13:31 rue_house deshipu, your sure they are micro based and not analog RC timer?
13:31 deshipu rue_house: yes, I'm sure for this particular model
13:31 deshipu rue_house: they can run on pwm of up to 300Hz too
13:31 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/hobbyservo/servo101.html
13:31 rue_house ok
13:35 rue_house they take 1.33ms to reset, interesting
13:36 rue_house hmm, still wonder if I can do 9600 over IR
13:41 rue_house 104us/bit
13:42 deshipu 38kHz sensors?
13:42 rue_house min 1 bit every 1ms
13:42 rue_house yea
13:42 rue_house they have duty limits
13:42 rue_house which might be ok as long as you watch the state of the serial line when its idle
13:43 rue_house min time is 6 cycles...
13:44 rue_house hmm
13:44 rue_house 9600 is 3.9 38Khz cycles
13:44 rue_house 4.1 cycles at 40Khz
13:44 rue_house so, not 9600 baud
13:45 rue_house 4800 might work
13:45 rue_house oh I wonder
13:45 rue_house no, thats trinary
13:46 rue_house sync, address, data, data
13:46 jhylands why stick to traditional baud rates
13:46 rue_house 480 bytes/sec
13:46 jhylands the AVR can do lots more than just the normal baud rates
13:46 rue_house 240, 120 packets/sec
13:47 rue_house cause standard rates work with everyting
13:47 rue_house get linux to do 200kbaud and get back to me
13:47 rue_house :)
13:47 jhylands I do 1000Kbaud in linux all the time
13:48 rue_house can I see your uart init code for that?
13:48 rue_house 50Hz servo update
13:48 rue_house 20ms
13:48 rue_house 120 servos/sec
13:49 jhylands serial.Serial(port=portName, baudrate=1000000, timeout=1)
13:49 jhylands python
13:49 jhylands portName is typically /dev/ttyACM0
13:49 jhylands or /dev/ttyUSB0
13:50 jhylands an AVR running at 8 or 16 MHz can do 1 megabaud with no issues, zero error
13:51 jhylands rue_house, the wonders of using high level languages is I don't need to care how the uart is set up - it just works
13:52 jhylands that particular code is setting up a 1 mbit serial link between a linux PC and an Atmega32U4
13:52 deshipu except when it doesn't, then you report a bug ;)
13:52 deshipu jhylands: I think it depends on your usb2ttl
13:53 jhylands with the 32U4 I don't have one
13:53 deshipu ah
13:53 jhylands it does USB direct
13:53 deshipu right
13:53 jhylands I'm running LUFA on the AVR to handle the USB stuff
13:53 deshipu that's not a character from Chronotrigger, I take it?
13:54 jhylands http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/LUFA.php
13:54 Tom_itx too bad dean dropped off the earth
13:54 deshipu I've seen it before, because the keyboard firmare that I'm using can use it
13:54 jhylands massive overkill for what I need, but once again my time is more valuable than the resources on the AVR
13:54 deshipu but no idea how it compares with anything else
13:55 deshipu I think I'm using the pjrc code for that currently
13:55 deshipu the one they had for teensies
13:55 jhylands Yeah, they have it built in
13:55 jhylands with the ARM code
13:55 jhylands same with my STM32F405 boards
13:55 deshipu no, I'm talking about the 32u4
13:55 jhylands oh, the 2
13:56 deshipu it's very popluar among keyboard makers
13:56 Tom_itx need some?
13:56 Tom_itx still got ~100 or so
13:57 jhylands teensy 2?
13:57 jhylands no thanks
13:57 deshipu Tom_itx: no, I just finished one
13:57 Tom_itx mega32u2
13:57 jhylands all my new designs I'm using ARM chips now
13:58 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/USB_chips.jpg
13:58 Tom_itx still got maybe 1/4 a tray left
13:58 jhylands ouch
13:59 jhylands I use the 32U4 for my ammeter for Mozilla
13:59 Tom_itx those are good chips
13:59 jhylands but I started that project before I got into ARM chips
13:59 Tom_itx the U2 lacked any adc
14:00 jhylands yeah, I use the A/D to measure the battery voltage
14:00 jhylands but I use a high precision 16 bit A/D for the current measurement
14:15 robotustra_ jhylands: why do you need 16 bits?
14:15 jhylands 0.1 mA resolution
14:15 jhylands which, for 0=2 amps
14:15 jhylands is 0-20,000
14:16 robotustra_ why?
14:16 jhylands why what?
14:16 robotustra_ to measure total current?
14:16 jhylands yes, I measure power from cell phone batteries
14:16 jhylands very precisely
14:16 robotustra_ ah, you are talking about your work
14:16 jhylands yes
14:17 jhylands thus the Mozilla reference above
14:17 robotustra_ I'm going to make discharger on arduino it's just 4096 steps ADC
14:17 robotustra_ I hope good enough for estimation
14:18 jhylands yeah, and for measuring voltage that's probably fine
14:18 jhylands or are you measuring current as well?
14:18 robotustra_ no
14:18 robotustra_ but I can try
14:18 robotustra_ I want to put constant load
14:19 robotustra_ like 12 Ohms
14:22 robotustra_ I have 20A arduino current sense
14:22 robotustra_ but it will have poor ptecision at 1A discharge
14:24 SpeedEvil oversample
14:24 SpeedEvil measure 1000*, average
14:29 deshipu that's how the time-of-flight light sensor works :P
14:29 robotustra_ if the load will be constant I can calculate the current
14:29 deshipu that and some interference tricks
14:29 deshipu robotustra_: if it's constant, then why do you need to measure it? :P
14:31 robotustra_ I want to measure votlage(t)
14:31 robotustra_ V(t)
14:31 robotustra_ discharging battery on power resistor
14:32 robotustra_ and after estimate the capacity of battery
15:09 rue_house libreadline is what I was thinking
15:21 deshipu libreadline is primitive
15:30 rue_house I want a text input box with backspace, history, and autocompletion
15:32 rue_house I'm just looking at xchat working out what it would take to carve it down to just an input text fiald
15:35 deshipu good luck
15:36 deshipu user interface programming is a mess
15:38 rue_house its really tangled into the core of xchats fuctionality
15:38 rue_house they didn't seperate the engine and the gui
15:38 rue_house dont' look like it anyhow
15:48 robotustra_ https://2ch.hk/b/src/110961194/14509885482360.webm
16:17 deshipu would be funny if it wasn't so fun
16:17 deshipu so sad
16:18 deshipu eh, this whole hysteria really doesn't help when you need to take a bunch of prototype robots cobbled together on the plane
16:20 rue_house qwho feels like a little math problem
16:20 rue_house ?
16:27 rue_house a guy has two independant axies
16:27 rue_house and 3 mtoors
16:27 rue_house between the two there is a mixing junction
16:28 rue_house there is a star with 3 points, and a star with 4 points
16:28 rue_house the 4 point is hooked up to the axies to be moved
16:28 rue_house the 3 point is hooked up to 3 linear actuators
16:28 rue_house define the math to translate the 4 positions into the 3 positions
16:29 rue_house where outputs are X and Y, inputs are A B C
16:30 deshipu what is "axies"?
16:30 rue_house one point of the 4 star and the 3 star are the same point
16:30 rue_house well, in this case they are two independant finger joints
16:30 deshipu axes?
16:30 rue_house but that dosn't matter
16:31 deshipu axles?
16:31 rue_house the interesting thought is that with a little math, you can save 1/3 of your linear actuators
16:31 rue_house axies
16:31 rue_house joint, whatever
16:31 deshipu http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Axies_the_Collector?
16:32 deshipu how is that called in English?
16:32 rue_house you cannot solve this problem
16:32 deshipu I cannot even understand it
16:32 rue_house exactly
16:32 deshipu if you invent words like that
16:33 rue_house and this soluton is in each of your 8 fingers
16:35 rue_house my mecha has 46 axies, if I can use this, I can take the number down to 35
16:35 rue_house whcih saves a LOT of air mulces, and servovalves
16:35 deshipu how many wurrzles and flibbles does it have?
16:35 rue_house I'm sorry that your a robot and you cant autocorrect what you read
16:36 rue_house I know you thought you were real
16:36 deshipu well, I'm not a native speaker
16:36 rue_house I hope this dosn't shatter your ambitions
16:36 deshipu it's hard enough reading mangled English
16:36 rue_house :) we mangle it good
16:36 deshipu guessing the meaning of made-up words is beyond me
16:37 rue_house every joint on a robot is called an axis
16:37 rue_house so, the 4 legged robot with 8 servos is an 8 axis robot
16:37 deshipu and the plural of "axis" is...
16:37 rue_house there will be a 100 question test on this tommorow.
16:37 rue_house ax*
16:38 rue_house or ax.* in PCRE
16:39 deshipu axolotl
16:39 rue_house I will accept that if used in contect
16:39 rue_house (context)
16:40 deshipu but the bigger problem, really, is that your description only makes sense in your head
16:40 deshipu you are asking us to do the work of reconstructing your problem
16:41 deshipu and you don't even want to hear an answer
16:41 deshipu so it's beyond me why you are even doing this
17:04 rue_house I have a robot that needs 92 air mucles
17:05 rue_house if I use this reduction I only need 69 air mucles
17:05 rue_house and all it does is to add a little math
17:09 robotustra_ профиль у чувихи не о чем
17:09 robotustra_ обычный сишарп девелопмент
17:09 robotustra_ все остальное это нойз
17:09 robotustra_ я весь этот экспириенс который у нее сделал за 1.5 года и не горжусь этим
17:10 robotustra_ работая на жидов
17:11 robotustra_ крича как тебе моя фотка? https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=AAkAAAUSUsMBIyr0gWPujyyiLGRVc58Pn2kXYF4&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=0HSG&locale=en_US&trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Amynetwork%2CclickedEntityId%3A85086915%2CauthType%3ANAME_SEARCH%2Cidx%3A1-1-1%2CtarId%3A1450997203050%2Ctas%3Anickolas%20
17:12 deshipu is it a full moon tonight?
17:13 ace4016 ?
17:13 robotustra_ sorry wrong tab
17:14 rue_shop3 жаль это слышать. Я надеюсь, что вещи улучшить
17:15 robotustra_ rue_shop3: google translate sucks
17:15 robotustra_ in russian
17:15 rue_shop3 yea I know
17:17 deshipu robotustra_: depends on what language you translate from :)
17:18 robotustra_ I don't take slavic languages
17:18 deshipu славянские языки делает хорошо
17:18 robotustra_ I can understand polish without translation
17:18 robotustra_ deshipu: not really
17:18 deshipu it's not correct, but it's understandable?
17:19 robotustra_ nie robie dobra
17:19 robotustra_ yeah
17:19 robotustra_ can guess 90% of the idea
17:19 deshipu I guess it's better without translation
17:20 robotustra_ I'm byelorussian actually, so for me polish is more simple then for russians
17:20 deshipu easier for Czech or Belrussian
17:20 deshipu ah
17:20 robotustra_ I'm from Minsk
17:20 deshipu nice
17:20 veverak :)
17:21 robotustra_ grow there
17:21 robotustra_ my dad knew polish very good
17:22 deshipu never been there, the closest I was is Vilnius
17:22 robotustra_ my dream is to have really good russian-english translator
17:22 deshipu that is challenging in many ways
17:22 deshipu English is a low-context language
17:23 deshipu if you translate sentences from Russian directly, they will be too long and complex for English speakers to understand
17:23 deshipu well, to read comfortably
17:24 rue_shop3 английский язык плохо продуманный язык .
17:24 deshipu well, most languages just happened :)
17:25 robotustra_ rue_shop3: not
17:25 rue_shop3 whats worse than engligh?
17:25 robotustra_ rue_shop3: you are not right, it's just different
17:25 robotustra_ rue_shop3: chinise
17:25 deshipu rue_shop3: French :D
17:25 robotustra_ french
17:25 anonnumberanon I got the best geek Christmas present.
17:25 robotustra_ yes
17:25 rue_shop3 as a canadian I would say french, but I'm biased
17:25 robotustra_ anonnumberanon: arduino?
17:26 deshipu getting laid? ;)
17:26 robotustra_ french was reformed but the reformation was not finished
17:26 anonnumberanon no the landing of a spacex vehicle
17:27 robotustra_ anonnumberanon: hm.. are you in spacex team?
17:27 e_shop3 will take the arduino ins
17:27 deshipu they made a mistake and landed it on the same planet :/
17:27 botustra_ would take a bunch of sensors ins
17:27 veverak :D
17:28 robotustra_ I have an excuse for not building robot today :)
17:29 deshipu ho ho ho kill all humans?
17:30 robotustra_ nein
17:30 veverak :D
17:30 robotustra_ smaller daughter birthday
17:30 robotustra_ it's much worser
17:30 deshipu younger?
17:30 robotustra_ yeah
17:30 robotustra_ kid's birthday is a pain
17:31 deshipu well, at least you made something that walks on two legs
17:31 deshipu or will be
17:31 deshipu sorry, bad joke
17:32 deshipu kids are fun for short time
17:32 deshipu when you are an uncle
17:32 robotustra_ yeah 2 times already
17:32 robotustra_ good joke
17:32 robotustra_ 2 humanoid robots for wife
17:32 robotustra_ now doing one for me
17:33 deshipu they even have auto-repair capability
17:34 deshipu happy birthday for your daughter
17:34 deshipu I will head to bed, gotta wake up at 5am today
17:34 deshipu to catch a plane
17:34 anonnumberanon deshipu no you cant have broken robots man. they should all be ready to sell and shipped out!!
17:35 anonnumberanon no robotustra_ but i have been following them for the past two years
17:37 robotustra_ good night
17:38 robotustra_ anonnumberanon: looks like you are sick?
17:38 robotustra_ or obsessed?
18:02 anonnumberanon I use C exclusively. Go up from minimal hardware in a need to upgrade fashion. I'll be adding additional 8 bits and esternal memory until i have tied doing something with current hardware unsuccessfully for about 2 weeks.
20:05 Anniepoo_ 8cD I'm making homemade Christmas presents
20:13 robotustra_ Anniepoo_: do you beleive in god?
20:13 Anniepoo_ =8cO
20:14 robotustra_ :)
20:15 Anniepoo_ I'm not touching that with a grounding pole
20:15 robotustra_ I don't understand religios holidays
20:16 robotustra_ "I'm not touching this question with 12 feet stick"
20:16 robotustra_ "I'm not touching this question even with 12 feet stick"
20:17 Anniepoo_ well, Christmas is a pretty civil holiday. It's an adaptation of an old pagan festival.
20:17 robotustra_ ORLY?
20:17 Anniepoo_ I believe in santa claus
20:17 robotustra_ I think it's purely religios
20:18 robotustra_ crismass and new year are 2 different holidays
20:18 Anniepoo_ well, I'm making christmas presents for all my Wiccan friends
20:18 robotustra_ one is associated with Iesus Christ and another one with Santa :)
20:19 robotustra_ who is Wiccan?
20:19 robotustra_ Thor?
20:19 Anniepoo_ a couple million people in the US?
20:20 robotustra_ I'm not in US
20:20 robotustra_ who are all these people?
20:21 robotustra_ I have only 2 holidays, Robodan and Robonucka
20:22 robotustra_ I didn't define dates yet, so I selebrate them from time to time
20:22 robotustra_ Anniepoo_: so what are you gifts?
20:23 Anniepoo_ for a boy who likes candy and puzzles, a cardboard box with a sort of maze in it and holes in the top, so he can tilt the box and get the candy out.
20:23 Anniepoo_ and for a young couple with a hedgehog, a sculptural wall hanging of a hedgehog
20:23 Anniepoo_ 8cD
20:24 robotustra_ did you started to pay insurance for dantist already?
20:26 robotustra_ candies -> bad tooth -> dentist -> expencies
20:27 Anniepoo_ welding
20:27 robotustra_ that's the real gift you are preparing for yourself
20:28 deshipu https://hackaday.io/page/1422-make-everything-replaceable <-- troll food
20:31 robotustra_ deshipu: aeroplain?
20:33 robotustra_ deshipu: I follow about the same ideology
20:33 robotustra_ I try to keep all parts detouchable
20:34 robotustra_ unless if I can make whole part lighter or sompler
20:47 deshipu sure, there are always tradeoffs
20:51 robotustra_ is there any text-to-speech with indian accent?
20:52 robotustra_ indian English I mean
20:54 robotustra_ I want Indian English reader with strong accent
21:07 robotustra_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NpKfkwiG68
21:20 robotustra_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id6zteRPbQI
21:39 robotustra_ deshipu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh02UvQUovU&list=PL0j86psKgIaLHJo5UCdNZUa7IcTrbxNyD
21:47 robotustra_ not bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMqO7klrOnE&list=PL0j86psKgIaLHJo5UCdNZUa7IcTrbxNyD&index=2