#robotics Logs
Dec 04 2015
#robotics Calendar
08:59 veverak 20 SERVOS ON MY TABLE
09:02 robotustra 500 robots in my house
09:04 mrdata theyre multiplying
09:05 mrdata stop them before they consume everything
09:05 veverak just buy them some condoms
09:05 robotustra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqS5ia0loiM
09:11 maiden to few robots in my basement.
09:11 maiden i hove to suffer manual labor :(
09:11 robotustra hey maiden
09:11 maiden *have
09:11 maiden hello
09:11 robotustra playing footbal?
09:11 maiden i am stuck on a train in a storm :D
09:11 robotustra snow storm?
09:12 maiden i wont be able to make it home, because there is a power outage on the track further ahead
09:12 maiden no, just crazy winds and rain
09:13 robotustra why, you don't have buck up power at home?
09:13 robotustra out of grid?
09:13 robotustra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL_yh8Zi5t4 more music
09:15 maiden have downloaded some KiCad instruction videos. are designing a BBB shield for work
09:15 maiden ~20 usd inc shipping for 10pcbs from china :D thats not bad.
09:16 robotustra in our company guys did a PCB based on BBB schematic to make antena control
09:16 maiden compare that to have to solder 30 ish cables by hand on all ten boards..
09:17 maiden this is just for sniffing UART RX/TX, JTAG flashing and power consumption monitoring.
09:17 maiden so its mostly just straight lines from one pin header to another.
09:19 robotustra shield for BBB?
09:19 maiden indeed
09:19 robotustra I do something similar at fork to make simulator
09:19 robotustra but on the base of arduino mega2560
09:20 maiden ok, we have to stick with BBB because we need 4x uart RX channels so we can log/sniff on data on our two uart rx/tx channels in our product.
09:22 robotustra_ca arduino mega2560 also has 4 uart btw
09:23 robotustra_ca I'll finish my base of robot soon
09:23 robotustra_ca and will start a fun part - making electronic for it
09:24 Snert do you have access to a well equipped shop?
09:24 robotustra_ca who?
09:24 Snert you.
09:24 robotustra_ca I have something like this at home
09:25 robotustra_ca what do you call well equipped?
09:25 Snert I have just a chop saw and a drill press. I dont thatnk that's well equipped.
09:25 robotustra_ca well, work on it and You'll get all tools
09:26 robotustra_ca I did cnc mill myself
09:26 robotustra_ca 3d printer did from kit
09:26 Snert it's a hinderance. and I don't think I'll get much more than a scroll saw. And a 3d printer as you say.
09:26 robotustra_ca I also getting my tools
09:26 robotustra_ca Snert: why?
09:27 Snert chop saw isn't very useful.
09:27 Snert that leaves me with just the drill press.
09:27 robotustra_ca buy hack saw
09:28 Snert it's the 3d printer that will come in most useful.
09:28 robotustra_ca I use hand tools very frequently
09:28 robotustra_ca like files, knives
09:29 robotustra_ca hammer, mallet, screwdrivers, alen key
09:29 robotustra_ca etc
09:30 Snert I've got a standard 2 car garage and all the hand tool stuff but no room for more power equipment.
09:31 robotustra_ca I did the lab from 1 room in the appartment
09:31 robotustra_ca 2 car garage is ok
09:31 MsMiki|w robotustra_ca: Hand tools represent! Wait... Dremel counts, right?
09:31 Snert sure do! got one of those too.
09:31 robotustra_ca I don't have
09:32 robotustra_ca I don't use dremmel because it's not exact tools
09:32 MsMiki|w Dremels are amazing. Any maker without access to a Dremel I feel sad for.
09:32 robotustra_ca my cnc mill can do up to 24000 rpms with the precision
09:32 MsMiki|w But yeah, you're right, they're bad for precision.
09:32 robotustra_ca I use notmally about 7000 rpms
09:32 MsMiki|w ...... now see, not everyone has access to a CNC mill.
09:33 robotustra_ca just do it
09:33 robotustra_ca it's not complicated
09:33 MsMiki|w Although that may change for me. Going out after work tonight for a long overdue checking out of the local hackerspace.
09:34 MsMiki|w Which apparently has a channel here, though there are very few people on it.
09:34 robotustra_ca http://robotustra.ca/my-cnc-mill
09:35 Snert nice rig.
09:35 MsMiki|w Huu boy... Russian... google translate is always wonky with that.
09:35 Snert I'm not one to go whole hog and built that.
09:35 robotustra_ca there is an english translation
09:35 robotustra_ca I did
09:36 MsMiki|w AH, gotcha, the quotes are the translation. Never seen it done that way before.
09:36 robotustra_ca I did it in 4 month on a kitchen table and 20$ vises
09:37 MsMiki|w Hahahaha! Dude, you can say your CNC mill is full of happiness. xD
09:37 MsMiki|w One sec...
09:37 MsMiki|w Immediately after the creation of the machine had the idea to put all the happiness in the soundproofed box, which would solve the problem of dust and noise.
09:37 MsMiki|w After I completed CNC mill there were an idea to make soundproof box to reduce the noise and prevent the dust.
09:37 MsMiki|w Your CNC mill runs on happiness and sparkles.
09:38 robotustra_ca http://robotustra.ca/my-cnc-mill2
09:39 Snert wow great job on the mill
09:40 MsMiki|w My other problem is space. I just don't have room for nice things like that in my townhome. The most I'll probably ever get is a 3D printer.
09:40 MsMiki|w But that really is a cool mill.
09:41 robotustra_ca it's how it looks like
09:42 robotustra_ca and I did a box for it
09:42 robotustra_ca aginst noise and dust
09:42 robotustra_ca http://robotustra.ca/sound-box
09:43 robotustra_ca so, you can do your tools - it helps a lot
09:47 robotustra_ca I can do parts about 10 times faster and more accurate with mill than by hands
09:54 robotustra_ca MsMiki|w: My "lab" is 3 by 4 meters
09:55 robotustra_ca and there plenty of stuff in there
09:56 maiden i think i will go for a 3d printer first then a "mostly printed cnc"
09:56 maiden but have been looking at shapeoko for a while..
09:57 robotustra_ca printer is good start
09:57 maiden but i got a k40 laser cutter, thats always something ;)
09:57 maiden but i can not use it, because of the smoke :p, have no good way of getting rid of that.
09:58 robotustra_ca I prefer precision in making something. Many many small good milled parts
09:58 robotustra_ca for instance for small humanoid robots
09:58 maiden last time i used my lasec cutter, the entire house smelled like smoke, so my wife got a bit annoyed..
09:59 robotustra_ca ha ha
09:59 robotustra_ca that's why I did a soundproof box - to be able to sleep next to the mill
09:59 maiden fuck!
10:00 robotustra_ca it's as silent as laser printer
10:00 maiden turned off all train traffic in half of sweeden for at least 2h
10:01 robotustra_ca still in the train?
10:01 robotustra_ca do you know that internet decrease highly the number of suisides in Norwey?
10:04 MsMiki|w robotustra_ca: I also have a roommate who is pretty sick of all of my tools and shit.
10:05 robotustra_ca MsMiki|w: your roommate male or female?
10:05 MsMiki|w Female. Both of us are.
10:06 robotustra_ca hm, and you are into robotics and she is not?
10:06 robotustra_ca can you change her on another one which has more interest like you have?
10:18 student hi everyone
10:19 student please answer me i want to join
10:19 student im an arduino fan as well
10:20 maiden join what?
10:21 robotustra_ca you are already joined
10:21 student just kidding nothing
10:22 student i was just seeing if any one was paying attention
10:22 maiden you are welcome to join our silence
10:22 student ok
10:22 student sounds good
10:22 maiden p
10:23 maiden ^_^
10:23 deshipu hello silence, my old friend, I came to talk to you again
10:23 maiden student: have you built anything interesting?
10:23 robotustra_ca student: so tel us already something
10:23 deshipu entertain us
10:24 student yes a quadcopter that i am currentlt finishing
10:24 maiden sweet :D
10:24 maiden make it autonomous!
10:24 maiden ^_^
10:24 student ill try that would be awesome
10:24 maiden https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjIzsLWycLJAhVjnXIKHeLcDA8QtwIIITAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DYQIMGV5vtd4&usg=AFQjCNG2DviXk4r8EBjdgl1ggrKo6SZ8ww&bvm=bv.108538919,d.bGQ
10:24 student ill need to make more compatible with arduino though
10:25 maiden why?
10:25 maiden make it compatible with mbed instead ;)
10:25 student good ide
10:25 student idea*
10:26 maiden student: have you looked at: https://www.bitcraze.io/
10:26 maiden its open source
10:26 maiden i have meet one of the creators
10:26 student no i havent thank you
10:27 student awesome
10:27 robotustra_ca yeah, cool
10:27 maiden i got one :D
10:28 robotustra_ca small one?
10:28 maiden one of the early ones, i think its pre-mass production
10:28 student awesome
10:28 maiden yea.
10:28 student i got to go bye guys
10:28 student thank you
10:28 robotustra_ca bye
10:28 robotustra_ca very shy student
10:28 maiden the company i worked on got 5, 4 of them was given to our local university for robotics study (making them autonomous)
10:29 robotustra_ca I don't think they are too autonomous
10:41 maiden the crazyfly?
10:41 robotustra_ca btw
10:42 robotustra_ca I would like to make autonomous dragonfly
10:42 robotustra_ca I did some attempts
10:42 maiden ^_^
10:42 robotustra_ca will do it also in canada so
10:42 robotustra_ca after I'll make a robot
10:43 deshipu drop the fly
10:44 deshipu make a dragon
10:44 robotustra_ca too much material
10:44 robotustra_ca http://robotustra.ca/maholet2
10:45 robotustra_ca this is a second one
10:45 maiden awesome!
10:46 robotustra_ca I did a try in canada also, but I hadn't enouph of time to finish it
10:47 robotustra_ca and I have to improove the control over wings
10:47 robotustra_ca I was not so good in electronics to build my own controller 3 years ago
10:48 robotustra_ca now I can do it
10:51 maiden OMFG! http://robotustra.ca/my-robot-done
10:51 maiden sweet, you are awesome :D
10:53 maiden made me think about the movie "9", http://photos.imageevent.com/afap/wallpapers/movies/9animatedfilm//scene_9.jpg
10:56 robotustra_ca yeah I saw it
10:58 robotustra_ca maiden: didn't you saw what I did on robot yet?
11:00 maiden what link? i liked your "random eye movement test"
11:00 robotustra_ca ерфтлы
11:00 robotustra_ca thanks
11:01 robotustra_ca I'm filling this link slowly, I mean my-robot-done
11:01 maiden trying to make sense of your phd thesis, i know a little bit theoretical physics and quantum theory, but it deos not help that its written in an language i can not understand with characters i can not read.
11:01 robotustra_ca working on wheeled base now
11:02 robotustra_ca I had somewhere it translated into English, but can't find it
11:02 maiden yea a saw that ^_^ so you are working on everything i am not working on, i skip the entire torso and up part and focus on walking
11:03 maiden or rather legs, and balance, will have to have some type of torso/arms/head in order to get a good pose.
11:03 maiden but it will be as simple as possible.
11:04 deshipu maiden: ZMP or some other approach?
11:04 robotustra_ca maiden: working on walk now?
11:04 maiden i am going to go through tis: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cga/walking/grad.html
11:05 robotustra_ca oh, I have to add some liks to inmoov and other numanoid robots sites also
11:05 maiden have printed the inmoov hand a few years ago
11:07 robotustra_ca I think it's too simplistic
11:07 maiden robotustra_ca, have recieved most of the hw i need for the first "hack" i am going to use to build my legs.
11:07 maiden inmoov?
11:07 robotustra_ca yeah
11:07 robotustra_ca 5 DOF?
11:07 maiden its built for looks not functionality :p
11:08 deshipu all humanoid robots are built for looks
11:08 deshipu there is no other reason to go humanoid
11:08 maiden lets see, 2 in ankle, 1 in knee and 3 in hip per leg,
11:09 maiden i am going for functionality, the worse it looks the better :p
11:10 maiden deshipu: you got the atrias robot, but its a biped, but i do not think it would classifiy as a humanoid...
11:11 deshipu right
11:12 maiden i think the cornell ranger and atrias is much more interesting then inmoov :p
11:12 deshipu evolution had additional constraints that we don't have
11:12 deshipu maiden: I'm a big fan of the robosimian
11:12 robotustra_ca deshipu: who is it?
11:12 deshipu maiden: at least from the mechanical pov
11:13 maiden and if i add hands, i will definitely go for http://www.openbionics.org/
11:13 deshipu maiden: those are not designed for robots
11:13 maiden this is better: http://www.openbionics.org/affordableprosthetichands/
11:14 deshipu they are soft
11:14 robotustra_ca looks ugly
11:14 maiden We propose a novel selectively lockable differential mechanism that can block the motion of each finger, using a button. The differential allows the user to select in an intuitive manner the desired finger combinations, implementing different grasping strategies with only 1 motor.
11:14 maiden thats awesome :D
11:15 maiden but its cheap and works well, thats all that counts
11:16 maiden it can grasp and lift a 1.5kg water bottle without problem, and with only one or two motors ;)
11:18 robotustra_ca I'm planing to make about 30 motors to drive my hand
11:20 maiden thats awesome, but i have 3 issues with that, 1. complexity, 2. cost, 3. power consumption
11:20 deshipu robotustra_ca: fun fact: each individual hair on your hand has a separate muscle
11:20 deshipu maiden: add weight
11:20 maiden A novel differential mechanism (based on the whiffletree) allows the user to block the motion of each finger independently and facilitates the execution of 144 different grasps with only 1 actuator.
11:21 maiden thats a better wording for the thing i wrote before
11:21 maiden *copy pasted
11:21 deshipu maiden: actually more actuators
11:21 deshipu maiden: you have to have something that does the blocking
11:21 deshipu although those are relatively weak, I suppose
11:22 maiden its mechanical, but yes, on a robot you will have to add another motor/servo to adjust settings.
11:22 maiden deshipu, as i said, its strong enough to hold a 1.5kg water bottle.
11:23 robotustra_ca deshipu: I know, but they all are dreven almost together
11:23 robotustra_ca maiden: the power of hand will be not more than 20-30 watts in total
11:25 robotustra_ca Finland http://nyt.fi/a1449202698839 video
11:25 robotustra_ca My robot will be about 200-300 wats max
11:26 maiden https://github.com/OpenBionics/Prosthetic-Hands/blob/master/Pics/hand3DPrinted.jpg
11:26 maiden 20-30 watt! :D omg!
11:27 maiden what batteries are you going to use?
11:27 maiden what run time are you aiming for?
11:33 maiden our fotball robots had 2x these each: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11941
11:34 maiden thats the biggest LiPo i have found, its 6Ah
11:37 maiden so one of those batteries can drive your hand (say 30W under constant load), it will be able to hold your arm for about 1h
11:37 maiden *hand not arm.
11:40 maiden a hobbyservo like the one used in the openbionics draws about 1A, so it could consume roughly 6000 times less power :p
11:41 maiden but if you are building something for a advanced research/art project then its a very interesting way to build, i really like the design of your hand.
11:42 maiden and with 30 motors i think you can do amazing things, but i think it will be a hell to build, program and maintain.
11:51 robotustra_ca I will use something like 24V LifePo4 batteries of 30-40AH
11:52 robotustra_ca 12 V * (3 A) = 36W
11:52 maiden i see :D
11:52 robotustra_ca but it's average, I think that load will be strongly uneven
11:53 robotustra_ca like pulsed current
11:53 robotustra_ca in pulses it could go up to 10A I think
11:53 robotustra_ca during the motion, and almost nothing in holding position
11:55 robotustra_ca I'm going to use DC motors with muscles of my own design and they will draw not so much current
12:20 maiden good
13:31 akem hi
13:32 robotustra ih
13:35 Hyratel one of the biggest hurdles in robotics is the conjunction of efficiency, fast operation and strength
13:36 Hyratel motors have a lot of rotational inertial so they can reach high top speeds when put through a gearbox, but the acceleration is lacking
13:37 robotustra Hyratel: yes, and I find that I can't get strength and efficiency with standard actuators
13:37 Hyratel this applies to chain, belt and drect shaft driven pivots
13:37 robotustra that's why I design my own
13:37 Hyratel lead screws are power efficient, but have very low top speed and extremely poor acceleration
13:38 robotustra there is a right one
13:38 Hyratel oh?
13:39 robotustra when I'll make one I'll show
14:28 veverak deshipu: you got SG92R in which posiiton?
14:32 SpeedEvil Hyratel: If only aluminium conducted magnetism.
14:33 Hyratel SpeedEvil, eh?
14:33 SpeedEvil Hyratel: None of Nd magnets, steel, or copper are notably low-density.
14:34 Hyratel ????
14:34 Hyratel I don't know what you're trying to say
14:34 SpeedEvil Making light low rotational inertia motors is hard
14:37 Hyratel it's as much the gear train as it is the motor
14:39 SpeedEvil Only really the first cog.
14:39 SpeedEvil maybe the second
14:39 SpeedEvil Motor usually dominates IME.
14:40 SpeedEvil (unless you're counting something massive like a cement mixer barrel as the second cog)
14:41 SpeedEvil Pnuematics and hydraulics are awesome too, but have their own issues.
14:43 Hyratel main one that comes to mind is closed-loop precision
14:44 Hyratel I'd like to see a pneumatic cylinder with a Hall position sensor array
14:44 Hyratel you'd need several
14:44 SpeedEvil or lvdt or ...
14:44 robotustra I don't understand 1 thing
14:45 robotustra why do you need precision in robotics?
14:45 SpeedEvil I don't understand 23*10^102 things.
14:45 SpeedEvil not everything can be rapidly closed loop
14:46 SpeedEvil Sensors for position can be hard, and actuation delay.
14:49 deshipu veverak: knees
14:49 deshipu veverak: the ones that carry the whole weight of the robot
14:50 Hyratel robotustra, if you're trying to put tab A in slot B, you need precisiohn
14:50 Hyratel if you're trying to place a DIP-28 with a Pick N place, you need precision
14:50 robotustra so make it CNC, but it's not robot
14:51 robotustra people are mixing CNC machines and robots
14:51 deshipu a cnc is a robot
14:51 robotustra and trying to make cncs machines instead of robot
14:51 deshipu just like a factory robot is a robot
14:51 robotustra deshipu: IMHO it's wrong definition
14:52 deshipu robotustra: definitions are useless
14:52 robotustra precize movements is just one of the features of rigid robots
14:52 deshipu robotustra: just consider what it does, not how you call it
14:52 deshipu robotustra: arguing about names is pointless
14:52 robotustra deshipu: if they are useless why do you use them everywhere?
14:53 robotustra My robot will not have strict trajectory, but will be able to plug A into B with good enough precision
14:53 deshipu robotustra: I'm not saying names are useless, I'm saying arguing about their definitions is
14:54 deshipu robotustra: just look at the actual physical properties
14:54 deshipu robotustra: that's very good
14:54 robotustra You should know Stanislaw Lehm?
14:54 deshipu robotustra: I hope you suceed
14:54 deshipu robotustra: I'm Polish, you know, I was *raised* on Lem
14:54 deshipu robotustra: I read everything he wrote when I was 8
14:55 robotustra so, open the book and read his definition of robot
14:55 deshipu in original
14:55 robotustra as you wish
14:55 deshipu I don't recall him dwelling on meanings and definitions of words
14:56 robotustra he put other meaning in this word, which has nothing to do with sophisticated CNC machines you are trying to do
14:56 deshipu robotustra: which book exactly?
14:56 robotustra don't remember
14:57 robotustra he introduced this word
14:57 deshipu robotustra: Fables for Robots?
14:57 deshipu robotustra: nope, that was a Czech author
14:57 deshipu robotustra: Karl Czapek
14:57 robotustra ok
14:57 deshipu you are mixing up books
14:57 robotustra ah
14:57 robotustra yes
14:57 robotustra may be
14:57 robotustra a bit drunk
14:57 robotustra sorry
14:58 deshipu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_%C4%8Capek
14:58 robotustra yes
14:58 deshipu well, he invented that word to describe a particular kind of artificial human in his novel
14:58 deshipu but the word has been adopted for other uses since
14:59 deshipu and the original meaning of the word "robot" is now taken over by "android", I think
15:00 robotustra true
15:00 robotustra but compare it with modern meaning
15:00 robotustra there is a shift
15:00 robotustra of meaning
15:00 robotustra robot is Artifitial Human
15:01 deshipu then how do you call the other kinds of robots?
15:01 deshipu say, the cybernetic turtle?
15:01 robotustra notI told you - multiple degree CNC machines
15:01 deshipu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_(robot)
15:02 deshipu robotustra: what would you call this?
15:02 robotustra here is the modern definition of robot: A robot is a virtual or mechanical artificial agent, usually an electro-mechanical machine.
15:02 deshipu robotustra: or, say, a Roomba?
15:02 deshipu I wouldn't call a virtual agent a robot
15:02 robotustra but it's definition as you see
15:03 robotustra the meaning is substituted
15:03 robotustra ppl think that they are doing robots - but actually they doing something different
15:03 deshipu robotustra: I'm ok to use the word "robot" to mean "artificial human" if you insist, but we need another word for the broader class of autonomous and semi-autonomous machines
15:03 robotustra for me Robot is still Artificial human
15:04 robotustra we asimpthotically will approach artificial humans
15:04 robotustra by building autonomous machines
15:05 deshipu I'm not interested in religion
15:05 deshipu let's talk about the mechanical contraptions, how do you wish to call them?
15:05 robotustra but I still can't give any example of fully autonomous machine yet
15:05 deshipu perhaps "drones"?
15:05 robotustra they are controlled
15:06 robotustra it's not autonomous
15:06 deshipu everything is controlled
15:06 deshipu the whole thing is called "control system" for a reason
15:06 robotustra let's say I did a robot, which live in my appartment and can do whatevet it wants
15:06 deshipu robotustra: not interrested in your kind of "robots"
15:07 robotustra it could find an electricity, talk to others, locomote
15:07 deshipu they are too surrealistic
15:07 deshipu I'm more interested in building practical machines
15:07 deshipu like, say, CNC routers
15:07 robotustra I'll do one in 3-4 years from now
15:07 robotustra no
15:07 deshipu cool, good luck
15:07 deshipu now, can we talk about practical problems?
15:07 robotustra like what?
15:08 Hyratel like why you say precision is pointless
15:08 deshipu like, for instance, how to assure a precise movement of an arm, despite its weight and inertia
15:08 robotustra let's take the human
15:08 robotustra I have a task : touch the nose with the finger
15:09 Hyratel from what rest state
15:09 robotustra I can do it fast and bu many trajectories
15:09 Hyratel and how rapidly
15:09 deshipu robotustra: now let your hand go numb and try again
15:09 Hyratel how many degrees of freedom
15:09 deshipu robotustra: because that's how robots need to operate
15:10 robotustra I mean that the trajectory could be quite arbitrary if I fit the final position correctly
15:10 deshipu also, you can do that, because your brain (actually the stem) does those super-complex calculations for you
15:10 Hyratel robotustra, that's Inverse Kinematics
15:10 robotustra yes
15:10 Hyratel IK is not the question right now
15:10 robotustra I know how it's called
15:10 Hyratel stop confusing the issue
15:10 Hyratel for right now, we will look at a single actuator
15:11 Hyratel rather, a single axis of freedom
15:11 Hyratel you're trying to introduce too many variables into the problem before even defining the problem
15:11 deshipu Hyratel: that makes it seem more mystical and hence easier to solve by magic :)
15:12 veverak :)
15:12 robotustra Hyratel: describe the whole problem - what do you want to solve?
15:13 Hyratel robotustra, human muscles have
15:13 Hyratel - high top speed
15:13 Hyratel - high acceleration
15:13 Hyratel - high repeatability
15:13 Hyratel - high top force
15:13 robotustra do you know what is the dependency of human muscle force of the length?
15:13 Hyratel - low minimum force
15:14 robotustra ?
15:14 Hyratel - high precision
15:14 robotustra wait
15:14 robotustra please answer me first
15:14 robotustra wait
15:14 robotustra do you know what is the dependency of human muscle force of the length?
15:14 Hyratel why is that part of the question
15:14 Hyratel we are not looking at the OPERATION of muscles, rather the OPERATING PARAMETERS
15:15 robotustra because it's strongly different to the "other" actuators dependency
15:15 robotustra that's the point
15:15 deshipu Hyratel: I think it will be better to talk about it when he's sober
15:15 Hyratel oh, he's dronk?
15:15 Hyratel deshipu, you get what I'm talking about, i think?
15:16 robotustra ppl are working with "abstract" actuator trying to make it as efficient as human muscle
15:16 Hyratel no, we're not, robotustra
15:16 Hyratel stop claiming that
15:16 robotustra ok
15:16 robotustra 1 sec
15:17 robotustra https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4E5998tiznGjVwjw7cw0Fhu9G-kAgPUycblNHfKH9Eozeu8_9
15:17 robotustra did you see that before?
15:18 Hyratel HOW IS THAT RELEVANT
15:18 Hyratel IT IS NOT
15:18 robotustra ok, so I go home
15:18 Hyratel you are apparently drunk, yes?
15:19 robotustra not much
15:19 robotustra but I still don't know what do you want
15:19 robotustra sorry
15:20 robotustra precision-efficiency problem?
15:20 Hyratel Precision-Speed-Efficience
15:20 Hyratel y
15:20 robotustra did you watch MIT cheetah talks on youtube?
15:20 Hyratel "good fast or cheap, you can pick any two"
15:20 Hyratel STOP
15:20 Hyratel DOING
15:20 Hyratel THAT
15:21 Hyratel you're completely derailing
15:21 robotustra ok, discuss it later
15:22 robotustra as you wish
15:23 robotustra precision+speed = rigid
15:23 robotustra speed + efficiency = elastic
15:24 robotustra precision + efficency = lightweight rigidity
15:24 robotustra precision + efficency = lightweight + rigidity
15:25 robotustra rigid != elastic
15:25 robotustra but could be
15:27 Hyratel robotustra, the key to all three is dynamic allocation of balance
15:27 Hyratel switch from Elastic to Rigisd mode when it nears the end of a long motion
15:28 Hyratel such as having an elastic damper with a brake
15:28 Hyratel deshipu, ^
16:21 veverak cable hell!
16:26 veverak nah
16:26 veverak it looks like only thing missing to "launch" tote is battery
17:00 deshipu Hyratel: sorry, wasn't paying attention
17:00 deshipu Hyratel: you can actually get high precission with a non-rigid system too, provided you know its parameters and have the PID tuned to it
17:01 deshipu Hyratel: of course that changes when your robot arm grabs something heavy and you don't even know how heavy it is
17:01 Hyratel thus the need for a Rigid or Semirigid mode
17:01 Hyratel rigid-elastic can be applied as a continuum
17:02 Hyratel and if you can alter the elastic tension, all the better
17:02 Hyratel in fact that's how human muscles run - they use a variable elastic tension and balanced forces
17:05 veverak nice
17:06 veverak tote default arduino sw works!
17:06 veverak :)
17:06 veverak or at least I was able to upgrade it
17:06 veverak not walking yet
17:19 deshipu veverak: trimming the servos takes some time
17:19 deshipu and patience
17:21 veverak still making "arms"
17:21 veverak the part when you have to push screws into plastic horns
17:21 veverak :)
17:23 deshipu I hate that
17:23 deshipu it may help to actually drill the holes bigger
17:24 deshipu with the tip of scissors
17:24 deshipu just not too big
17:29 verak just had to find proper screwdr
17:29 veverak one that fits perfectly
18:06 veverak deshipu: http://i.imgur.com/TZtxsAF.jpg
18:08 deshipu veverak: looks good
18:08 deshipu veverak: did you set them all to middle?
18:09 deshipu veverak: you may want to cut off the "ears" of the hip servos
18:19 anonnumberanon rue_mohr, Nothing I don't like just very compact and unreadable but it's not made to be readable I think. I was impressed by your C skills while looking at that. I haven't tried the program nor can I try it now because I would have to pipe it into something and I don't know how, plus I can't quickly understand how the code works since I'd have to spend a lot of time deciphering what it does.
18:21 veverak deshipu: yeah, figured that out :)
18:21 anonnumberanon rue_mohr, Maybe another case of "would take me faster to write my own than to understand this one". I'd have to spend a good day doing that because the use of pointers you make is a bit advanced compared to what I'm used to writing. I'd surely come out of it a winner but I just can't allocate an entire day to it just yet, with my robot almost working and stuff.
18:28 anonnumberanon <rue_bed> are you reffering to the (void * (*)(void *))
18:30 anonnumberanon Oh im only now looking at ssls2.h and that gives the .c a lot more sense.
18:31 anonnumberanon (void * (*)(void *))&SerNotifierThread
18:31 veverak deshipu: seems like making servo pinouts bottom can work
18:31 veverak I want to put li-po stop between them
18:31 veverak and put batter on top of arduino
18:31 veverak raspbbery pi will be on top of that battery
18:33 anonnumberanon rue_mohr, I do am very excited in reading and deciphering your code fully some day though. Soon I hope.
18:35 anonnumberanon but yeah that last code line i pasted, you are casting the value &SerNotifierThread as a type (void * (*)(void *))
18:35 anonnumberanon which at this point i would need to think about it quite longer to say what this whole expression actually points to :)
18:36 anonnumberanon kk back to robot, hardwiring the receiver and gonna finish up the remote controller to let it switch control between leg 0 and leg 1
18:36 Miki_ Looks like a function pointer of some kind.
18:37 anonnumberanon void *SerNotifierThread(SSLS_t *this) ;
18:38 Miki_ Called it.
18:38 deshipu veverak: yup
18:39 deshipu veverak: https://cdn.hackaday.io/images/1173681448136046223.jpg
18:39 deshipu veverak: like this
18:42 veverak yeah
18:43 veverak so
18:45 veverak battery, lipostop, arm device :)
18:46 veverak but I suppose I can play with esp2866 for a time
19:17 veverak fuuu
19:17 veverak I need breakout board for esp8266 esp-12.
19:17 veverak (I picked bad esp8266 version, really requires breakout
19:26 anonnumberanon esp8266 esp-12, IS a breakout board
19:31 anonnumberanon I spoke too fast you'll also need a lm 1117 chip
19:31 anonnumberanon that's the powper supply
19:48 veverak deshipu: also, thought ever about li-po chargin circuit ?
19:49 veverak with proper li-po stop included and it would be mega-awesome
19:49 veverak 1/2s :)
19:50 veverak (proper stop circuit drawns REALLY small amount of current after it stops, can last years without damaging battery afk)
19:50 veverak *afaik
19:56 veverak deshipu: also, maybe that free holes next to servo mounts , could be 3mm dia :/
19:56 veverak but that is nothing I can't change quickly
20:09 rue_mohr anonnumberanon, yes, its a function pointer, with parameters
20:29 rue_mohr you want a no-draw powerup circuit for a battery?
20:30 rue_mohr (off till you push button, microcontroller turns itself off)?
20:30 rue_mohr I'v used a button that has a parallel relay, the first line of code latches the relay on
21:03 anonnumberanon rue_mohr, have you ever current-limited a pwm to servo? wondering if my Pro Mini will be up to the task or running all these outputs.
21:34 rue_mohr why would you current limit the pwm?
21:34 rue_mohr wait, hobby servo or motor in servo system
21:34 rue_mohr we need a name for a real servo
21:43 Hyratel rue_mohr, yeah we need something to differentiate
21:44 robopal how about "that thing" and "that other thing"
21:44 anonnumberanon Oh those large shapeless things that are time-consuming to fabricate?
21:45 anonnumberanon And hard to gear?
21:45 robopal are you talking about the thing or the other thing?
21:47 ace4016 rue_mohr, servo motor and R/C servo
21:47 ace4016 dun
21:47 e4016 nods sa
21:49 onnumberanon waits patiently for a 30 kg.cm, 180deg range, fast rotation ( equal or more than 0.16 seconds per 60 degrees rotation ) thing to be made or sold for $7 to $10, or fast to make at h
21:51 anonnumberanon With same form factor than a standard size hobby servo.
22:59 anonnumberanon magic smoke :)
23:08 ace4016 30 kg*cm...
23:08 ace4016 jeez
23:22 akem hi
23:24 anonnumberanon ace4016, yeah that costs $29 :(
23:25 anonnumberanon http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__40285__Turnigy_8482_MG959_V2_Alloy_DG_MG_Servo_30kg_0_15sec_78g.html
23:26 akem deshipu you got 6 wires per leg for your tote spider connect to the nanoduino?
23:27 akem crazyeddy you the guy from some opengl GUI ?