#robotics Logs

Dec 01 2015

08:56 anonnumberanon Hey by the way, that job requires a pro, man, and it's unpaid you know, man.
09:00 akem hello
09:00 LiohAu hello
09:00 LiohAu are there french people here? :)
09:02 akem there are .fr people and robots, inmoov is french IIRC
09:03 akem why lyohau?
09:06 LiohAu akem: looking for a french mecatronics engineer to join our team :)
09:10 akem the other day there was an indian guy looking for team members or possibly students
09:11 akem liohau website? robotics?
09:12 LiohAu no website, 1st we get something up, and after we get a website for it :)
09:12 LiohAu and yes it’s for robotics.
09:16 akem maybe more details? industrial or location etc?
09:16 akem because there is an interesting amount of .fr people around
09:17 akem also in open source programs
09:22 LiohAu akem: not an industrial one.
09:23 anonnumberanon LiohAu, maybe ;)
09:23 anonnumberanon Do you want to compete with NAO?
09:23 LiohAu no
09:23 anonnumberanon Ca serait trop dure.
09:24 LiohAu something similar to pepper (in appearance)
09:24 LiohAu no bipedic walking issues.
09:24 anonnumberanon It has nice hands.
09:24 LiohAu pepper?
09:25 anonnumberanon yeah
09:25 LiohAu well the author of the hand was interested in working on our project, and one day he stopped responding to my mails..
09:25 LiohAu intellectual property issues he said :(
09:26 LiohAu anyway, now I have 2 good partners, but they really lack of time, so I need to find more people.
09:27 anonnumberanon I can help a bit.
09:27 rue_mohr what is i your building?
09:28 LiohAu It’s related to telepresence robots, and looks like a pepper, I can’t tell more rue_mohr :)
09:29 rue_mohr huh
09:29 anonnumberanon "the use of virtual reality technology, especially for remote control of machinery or for apparent participation in distant events."
09:29 rue_mohr 'for profit' stuff has too much pressure for anything wtih me
09:30 rue_mohr I should do some more force feedback stuff tho
09:32 rue_mohr I'v never tested my idea of position sensing on hobby servos
09:32 LiohAu rue_mohr: so you work on robots only for fun?
09:32 rue_mohr yup
09:33 LiohAu but if everybody works on robot for fun, or in labs, or for robotics challanges, who is working on the robots that will change the world ? :)
09:34 LiohAu are we going to wait passively, for one of the GAFA to realize that robotics is the next step to go?
09:34 anonnumberanon Great question.
09:34 anonnumberanon s/ion/ions
09:35 LiohAu one thing I can tell, in france, nobody is going to sell an usefull robot (except vaccum/lawn robots) in the coming years, aldebaran was the only one able to do that with Romeo, and it looks like the project is already dead.
09:36 LiohAu (not considering pepper/nao are really usefull..)
09:37 deshipu how about those cyber-dogs from Sony?
09:37 LiohAu is your mom intested in buying one?
09:37 deshipu I'm not saying they will be in every grocery store
09:37 deshipu but they did sell
09:38 LiohAu sure, but they are useless :D
09:38 deshipu define "useful"
09:38 anonnumberanon So you have an idea for a useful robot?
09:38 deshipu they are pretty awesome
09:38 anonnumberanon Which doesn't break the bank for the customer?
09:39 deshipu anonnumberanon: it can even break the bank, it will get cheaper when it's mass-produced
09:39 LiohAu anonnumberanon: I have a target cost around 4-5K
09:39 deshipu LiohAu: so what's a "useful robot"?
09:40 LiohAu deshipu domestic point of view: cook, clean the floor, rid the table, replace domotics stuff by switching off/on the light, closing the shutters for you, there’s a lot of thing a robot can do
09:40 deshipu LiohAu: there are floor-washing roombas now
09:41 deshipu LiohAu: switching light on and off and closing shutters is better done without a robot, with build-in mechanisms
09:41 anonnumberanon My old university bought 3 biped robot kits in three years, and it always complains of budgets. There is a market in that.
09:41 LiohAu well we can’t really say they are able to clean a full house
09:41 anonnumberanon I'm making a prototype one while waiting to get a job.
09:41 deshipu anonnumberanon: http://tote.rtfd.org <-- $25 for the parts
09:41 deshipu LiohAu: getting there
09:41 deshipu LiohAu: it takes time
09:42 deshipu LiohAu: roombas will get smaller and faster
09:42 LiohAu deshipu: what justify the price of a robot is its versatility
09:42 deshipu LiohAu: not really
09:43 deshipu LiohAu: remember back in the day when you could buy an "electric motor for your home"?
09:43 deshipu LiohAu: with a range of appendages, from knife sharpener to um, "massager"?
09:44 LiohAu but today, a versatile robots means « buy a really expensive robot which is an empty shell, and wait for an AppStore to be populated by random people with a lot of apps ».
09:45 LiohAu look at kickstarter there were robots able to make a lot of things, but concretely they were able to do nothing
09:45 deshipu LiohAu: the problem is, there is nothing such a "versatile" robot can do
09:45 LiohAu (obviously they failed their campaign)
09:46 deshipu you need a specialized robot that just works and doesn't need to be supervised
09:46 anonnumberanon a robot that can bring you breakfast in bed, now that would be something
09:46 deshipu and that is dead simple, so it doesn't break
09:46 anonnumberanon cause then, it pleases you everyd ay
09:46 deshipu anonnumberanon: more easily done with a system of pulleys ;)
09:46 LiohAu deshipu: and also does not work.
09:46 deshipu anonnumberanon: vide Wallace and Gromit
09:46 LiohAu i’m sorry to tell you that, but roomba are not working.
09:47 deshipu anonnumberanon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqGTtFIZm5Y
09:47 deshipu LiohAu: I have one, works fine
09:47 anonnumberanon http://investor.irobot.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=193096&p=irol-reportsannual
09:47 LiohAu in the corners?
09:47 LiohAu with mess in your flat?
09:47 LiohAu with stairs?
09:53 soiledit one sec on the picture.
09:55 LiohAu deshipu: well I hope to succeed in my project, so i’ll show you how versatile a robot can be :P
09:56 anonnumberanon LiohAu, it's not about making a really nice robot. It's about making a robot that sells really nicely. Then once you've got that working, make whatever the heck you want with your nice new financial situation.
09:57 soiledit http://twitter.com/flufferfish/status/671713325680496640/photo/1 pardon the mess.
09:57 LiohAu well this time the business model is ready, it’s the product which is not :)
09:59 deshipu anonnumberanon: if you want to make money, robots are not the best way
09:59 veverak :)
09:59 veverak deshipu: I always thought that making TOTE into simple packages ment for schools could work for you...
09:59 anonnumberanon deshipu, come on now everybody wants make money
09:59 deshipu education and entertainmnet are probably the best areas for now, if you insist on robots
09:59 veverak but I suppose it removes all the fun
09:59 veverak :
09:59 soiledit the only thing i have different than in the Hello tutorial is where i wired the last pin on the lcd straight to ground. that shouldn't affect anything but the intensity of the backlight, which works with a bit of wiggling
09:59 veverak :)
10:00 anonnumberanon "if you want to make money" LOL
10:00 deshipu veverak: nah, I would swap a great job in an open source company with a chinese sweat shop...
10:00 LiohAu deshipu: people working for PSA would tell you « if you want to make money, cars are not the best way » but at the same time, look at tesla that just appeared?
10:01 anonnumberanon "Umn no man, like I don't want to make money, man, I don't need it to buy expensive part for robot development man, I can do like, everything with this breadboard and a few 74HC packages man."
10:01 soiledit deshipu: any insight?
10:01 deshipu soiledit: nope
10:01 deshipu sorry
10:01 anonnumberanon soiledit, your picture doesnt show the connections to the screen too well, amusingly, which is what we're trying to troubleshoot.
10:02 soiledit hold on then.
10:03 anonnumberanon is that a 10k pot on the left?
10:04 soiledit http://twitter.com/flufferfish/status/671715188077277185/photo/1
10:05 anonnumberanon is that a 10k pot on the left?
10:05 soiledit it's whatever pot goes on the maker shield. i multimeter'd it
10:05 anonnumberanon are you seeing a lower voltage than 5V coming from the pot's wire into the screen?
10:07 soiledit good question. one sec
10:11 soiledit oookay, uh, i'm reading close to nothing
10:11 anonnumberanon turn the screw in the pot and see if that changes
10:12 soiledit nope
10:12 soiledit it might be busted
10:12 soiledit should i sub out a resistor?
10:12 anonnumberanon are you measuring with Volt, from ground to the wire that goes into the screen from the pot?
10:13 anonnumberanon link the pot's schematic now
10:13 anonnumberanon the resistor can work yeah if you do it right
10:13 soiledit the pinout?
10:13 anonnumberanon yeah, maybe you mixed them up
10:14 anonnumberanon like 5V and wiper are mixed up
10:14 anonnumberanon 5v and Ground mixed up should not do anything
10:14 soiledit i looked it up and it's supposed to be a 10k pot, yeah
10:15 soiledit can't find a link to schem anywhere
10:15 anonnumberanon is it this one? http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/oYkAAMXQaBRRi1LL/$T2eC16R,!wsE9suwycefBRi1LLo7TQ~~60_35.JPG
10:15 anonnumberanon this? http://img.bhs4.com/66/1/661016a54f30ff577fba34398b5703ebfb6c4722_large.jpg
10:16 anonnumberanon this? https://www.adafruit.com/images/310x233/356-03.jpg
10:16 soiledit 1st pic won't show, it's not the 2nd
10:16 anonnumberanon Yep looks like the third one i posted.
10:17 soiledit oh, that's it!
10:17 soiledit #3
10:17 soiledit do i have it wired funny?
10:17 anonnumberanon put power and ground on the outer legs, and measure V from the center to ground
10:18 anonnumberanon then turn the knob a little and measure again, the value should change
10:18 anonnumberanon bbl
10:21 soiledit reading around 2 volts at max
10:22 soiledit the screen's contrast doesn't change (that i can see) and appears to be very low
10:22 anonnumberanon that should be enough for the screen, run that leg to the screen (i assume you already tried)
10:22 soiledit meaning it looks the same when it's off
10:22 anonnumberanon also reset arduino
10:22 soiledit will do.
10:24 soiledit rewired, reset, still squat.
10:25 soiledit the light is running fine but it has a pretty direct connection to v and -
10:26 soiledit ugghh
10:27 soiledit i'm gonna start subbing out wires.
10:30 soiledit thanks for helping me troubleshoot by the way.
11:05 anonnumberanon that pot should give you all the way from 0 to 5V
11:06 anonnumberanon not a max of 2
11:25 soiledit anonnumberanon: i'll try that again then
11:25 soiledit i reassembled, this time without the serial wires
11:29 veverak deshipu: exactly...
11:31 deshipu I think that pets and toys are the way to go for now
11:31 deshipu for getting people used to it
11:31 deshipu and for getting mass-market production of the necessary components
11:57 _moon Who's awake?
11:58 soiledit hi moon
11:58 deshipu nobody
11:58 _moon some it seems
11:59 _moon HI
11:59 deshipu veverak: I wonder when our mobile phones really will get mobile
11:59 _moon does anyone know if rue got back from his bela bela 'thing'
12:39 anonnumberanon soiledit, I'm having a lot of fun with my 14 * 2, thinking about you
12:39 anonnumberanon I'm making an "OS" for it right now.
12:41 veverak deshipu: ?
12:42 deshipu veverak: you know, like an mascot you wear on yourself
12:43 deshipu veverak: that has a camera and a phone build in
12:43 soiledit why you little
12:43 veverak hmm
12:46 anonnumberanon rue_mohr, about that servo thing yeah, that would be really nice, just reminds yourself it already exists in OpenServo
12:47 anonnumberanon But I'm thinking you want to add that option to analog servos..
12:50 deshipu of course hanging on to a person requires completely different approach than walking on a flat surface
14:24 Snert__ I bet these Nike "self-lacing" shoes use muscle wire
14:24 Snert__ http://news.nike.com/news/nike-mag-2015
14:26 Snert__ Nike Mag Power Laces
14:29 Snert__ but the patent seems to indicate asome sort of mechanical tightening system.
14:29 Snert__ http://www.nicekicks.com/2015/01/07/nike-mag-2015-power-laces-us-patent-papers/2/
16:21 anonnumberanon victory
16:50 akem just got a cheap soldering iron and it s dead almost instantly
16:54 akem i though i could solder 1 or 2 new intel cores on my arduinos to make them look more cool
17:02 LiohAu I have to find a system that rotate (pan 120°) my kinect and camera with a single servo. Given there's like 50cm of distance (vertical) between these two, what kind of "standards" mechanical parts could I use to achieve that?
17:05 deshipu servos usually have ~180° range
17:05 deshipu so nothing special
17:07 LiohAu it's not the servo my problem
17:07 LiohAu its the part that links the support of my kinect, and the camera
17:08 LiohAu a basic pan system would require 2 servos, one for the kinect, and one for the camera, since they aren't really close
17:08 deshipu a pole?
17:08 deshipu well, that's an option too
17:09 deshipu you could even control them from the same pin with the same signal
17:09 LiohAu yes, but I would like to avoid buying 2 servos, for the same move
17:09 deshipu fine
17:10 LiohAu deshipu: pole? is it a rod ?
17:10 deshipu yeah, a rod
17:10 LiohAu I mean "pole" like in "pole dance" ? the bar ?
17:10 deshipu not a native speaker, sorry
17:10 LiohAu me too :p
17:10 LiohAu when you said "pole", I had "south pole", "north pole" in mind ^^
17:10 deshipu so yeah, a rod of any material and two bearings
17:11 LiohAu so a rod with the servo direct driving it ?
17:11 LiohAu or a rod with a pulley/gear on it and a pulley/gear on the servo
17:11 deshipu why not, the simplest thing that could possibly work
17:12 deshipu I would try with driving it directly first
17:12 LiohAu the kinect is around 1kg
17:12 LiohAu (and the camera is 40g..)
17:17 anonnumberanon tHE more weight, the more good bearings you'll need
17:17 anonnumberanon maybe?
17:17 choonway you might want to use a four bar linkage
17:18 deshipu can it be three bars and a restaurant?
17:18 choonway https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_PnjGARuNU
17:19 deshipu how does that help with vertical separation of the two?
17:20 LiohAu trying to understand that too :P
17:20 LiohAu deshipu: even with the rod, I still have to find a way to drive the kinect rotation
17:21 LiohAu (and camera)
17:21 anonnumberanon So I have my wireless remote nearly completed. 7 channels (pots), 3 buttons, 1 LCD, battery. The feedback on a serial output on the computer at the receiver module is almost instantaneous.
17:21 deshipu mount the servo below the rod
17:21 LiohAu because with what we said, we only have a rotating bar :P
17:21 deshipu or on top of it
17:21 anonnumberanon This will be enough for fast wireless control of the robot.
17:22 deshipu anonnumberanon: what protocol are you using?
17:22 anonnumberanon The microcontroller has no more pins left lol.
17:22 anonnumberanon 2.4ghz
17:22 choonway didn't see the vertical lol. I would stick a piece of foam on top of the kinect and mount the camera on top of that?
17:23 anonnumberanon Now I really want to print a pcb for the entire thing but it's gonna stay on the breadboard for a while. That would take too long and not much added value to it.
17:23 deshipu anonnumberanon: I meant, how are you serializing the outputs?
17:24 anonnumberanon I can send integers with that library (RF24).
17:26 anonnumberanon Oh the output to the screen?
17:27 deshipu anonnumberanon: no, over the air
17:27 deshipu anonnumberanon: so you are just sending bytes in a specific order?
17:28 anonnumberanon Actually sending array[7]
17:28 anonnumberanon it just takes it
17:28 anonnumberanon int array[7]
17:31 anonnumberanon I also got good sound from the piezo from when i press the button but those arent programmed into the controller yet, just on a separate breadboard.
17:35 LiohAu deshipu: except if I solder the rod to the kinect and camera supports, I don't see how rotating the rod will rotate the two elements
17:42 anonnumberanon Right. Time for Gundam.
17:43 deshipu hot glue
17:50 robotust1a chewing gum
17:51 Snert__ monkey snot
18:21 anonnumberanon Now to get 10 to 17 servo signals sent correctly.
20:12 anonnumberanon rue_mohr, hey what pwm width did you say was some of the lowest you found that still controlled a servo? I have a usable 500 microseconds right now
20:12 anonnumberanon I think I need to make a quick servo tester to find all of their ranges...
20:13 orlock anonnumberanon: i found a protractor (i think?) was handy too, to measure angle vs rate
20:19 anonnumberanon orlock, to compile a list of their range of rotation?
22:01 anonnumberanon Oh wow finding huge programming mistakes is the best.
23:05 rue_mohr anonnumberanon, servo control code?
23:06 anonnumberanon rue_mohr, yeah :)
23:06 rue_mohr intead of just using my code I worked on to make perfect...
23:10 anonnumberanon Ah. I don't understand people's code. Especially for this time stuff.
23:11 anonnumberanon real-time stuff
23:14 anonnumberanon rue_mohr, to be honest, I think my robot would kill your robot
23:14 onnumberanon g
23:14 anonnumberanon It can already do a high kick.
23:39 rue_mohr I really need to get the pipe roller finished
23:39 orlock why is all the cat5 i can find stranded cable
23:40 rue_mohr old patch cords
23:40 orlock i'd like some solid core for perfboard jumps
23:46 rue_mohr I could send you 50ft of multicolour