#robotics Logs
Nov 23 2015
#robotics Calendar
03:58 deshipu maybe they counted each cable as 5 parts -- the wire, the metal ends, and the plastic ends?
04:32 anonnumberanon lol..damn
04:32 anonnumberanon you're right
04:36 deshipu they do that commonly
05:04 anonnumberanon thing is 65 wires will be fine for months to come
05:13 SpeedEvil Complain to the seller
05:13 SpeedEvil often they will send you teh balance.
05:13 SpeedEvil They do this intentionally, often.
05:13 SpeedEvil Shipping 1/4 x, when you ordered x, cheap.
05:14 anonnumberanon "325 Jump Wires ( 325pcs in total) "
05:14 anonnumberanon I already complained.
05:15 anonnumberanon if i don't get answer soon ill leave negative feedback, mayyybe
06:18 akem hi
06:46 anonnumberanon this spider is such a bully https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5EVcvT6olw
06:54 akem anonnumberanon wow awesome
07:15 akem i wonder how the spider does on accidented surfaces, non planar
07:16 akem gundam like is so cool also
07:18 anonnumberanon yeah
07:22 anonnumberanon akem, you should build one!
07:30 akem i'll a centipede first
07:30 akem try
07:30 akem ：》
07:46 anonnumberanon that's cray
07:52 anonnumberanon deshipu, Filco Majestouch 2 tenkeyless
08:09 deshipu anonnumberanon: what switches?
08:09 anonnumberanon blue, they feel a bit soft though
08:09 anonnumberanon still god-tier though
08:10 deshipu I love this blue bot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtAtrGBXZmg
08:11 Snert the legs dont seem useful though
08:11 Snert or I dont understand the purpose of such short legs
08:13 deshipu they are there to boost the cuteness factor
08:13 deshipu tenfold
08:13 SpeedEvil very stable
08:13 SpeedEvil but that
08:15 Snert I wonder if those kids used like an erector set parts to build from.
08:15 SpeedEvil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXqEbkxREpQ - related
08:15 Snert looks like alot of specialty little aluminum brackets and such.
08:16 anonnumberanon I think it's great for the commercial sex-appeal value.
08:27 deshipu SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv0I_2J_AzE
08:39 anonnumberanon deshipu, good job! https://tote.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ik.html
08:39 robotustra deshipu: hi
08:39 anonnumberanon also look for a vid, can't find one
08:39 deshipu robotustra: hello
08:39 deshipu anonnumberanon: what do you mean?
08:40 anonnumberanon did not find a video of the tote
08:40 robotustra deshipu: how are your robots doing
08:41 robotustra some progress?
08:55 deshipu anonnumberanon: https://hackaday.io/project/6050-tote-affordable-spider-robot
08:55 deshipu robotustra: it's slow
08:55 deshipu robotustra: day job interferes :)
08:56 robotustra the same
08:57 robotustra moved furneture all weekend, did the lab finaly
09:00 robotustra now I have all my tools in one room
09:03 deshipu sounds convenient
09:04 robotustra yeah, no I can do it continuously after work, do not remove parts to the storage and back
09:05 veverak :)
09:06 robotustra it was so annoying to get all tools, do job, put back. Now I just can stop at any point, drop everything and continue the next day
09:08 anonnumberanon how fast does #robotics think this motor can be actuate through its full range?
09:08 anonnumberanon http://www.ebay.com/itm/JCB-8018-CTS-BUCKET-RAM-P-N-333-S4275-/221414303282?hash=item338d522632:g:kjIAAOxyUylTR8lc
09:09 robotustra anonnumberanon: what are you building?
09:09 veverak deshipu: whist is max-current rating for tote?
09:10 anonnumberanon robotustra, nothing
09:10 anonnumberanon just thinking
09:11 anonnumberanon i guess ill get my answer in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9GEUmZuk2k
09:11 robotustra becca_KB1WRP: hi
09:12 becca_KB1WRP hi ^_^
09:13 robotustra kind of 20-30 cm/s max
09:16 deshipu veverak: I have no idea, depends on what you make it do
09:17 deshipu veverak: I use 1.5A voltage regulator with one of them
09:17 veverak deshipu: thinking about using 3A 5V "UBEC"
09:17 deshipu 3A should be fine
09:17 veverak afaik raspberry pi really likes proper 5V
09:17 deshipu yeah
09:17 veverak and this thing takes care of 'li-po' by default
09:18 veverak also, finally found out one that could be small enough
09:18 deshipu veverak: have you seen https://hackaday.io/project/6050-tote-affordable-spider-robot/log/28167-ic-slave ?
09:18 veverak 30x9x6mm
09:18 veverak deshipu: just read it
09:18 veverak awesome!
09:18 veverak :)
09:18 deshipu now "just" to program it...
09:18 veverak :)
09:22 veverak http://www.pelikandaniel.com/products/1RC21505/b_0.jpg
09:22 veverak looks compact enough to put into tote
09:24 deshipu veverak: I used this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-20PCS-Ultra-small-power-supply-module-DC-DC-BUCK-3A-adjustable-buck-module-regulator/1342127513.html
09:25 veverak I see
09:50 anonnumberanon kind of hard to test if it needs any current and voltage, because it works at 3.7V, voltage is fine, although it may be running slower than at 5V, for the current you spin the servo while trying to hold the horn with your fingers until it almost stops (or a little less than that lol, you must have "the touch") and at that point, look on the power supply how much current your are drawing, or use a multimeter to measure it.
09:50 anonnumberanon deshipu,
09:51 anonnumberanon that's how i got 1.5A for each of my servos, so I decided on getting quite the large power supply for it
10:14 deshipu anonnumberanon: however, normally it won't take that much current, as not all servos will be stalled at the same time
10:18 blib is there a good model for 4 wheeled robotic motion? velocity/displacement/acceleration etc with encoders?
10:19 robotustra blib: math model?
10:21 blib robotustra: code model - a library that I could use?
10:22 robotustra what cpu do you use?
10:23 blib robotustra: http://www.robotshop.com/blog/en/files/dagu-4wd-thumper-mobile-platform-aluminum-T.jpg
10:23 blib robotustra: I've a raspberry pi - with gcc/python available on it.
10:23 robotustra what about writing code yourself?
10:24 robotustra I'm not sure such libraries exist
10:24 blib robotustra: I'm writing it now - would be nice to see what others have done
10:24 blib I can't be the first one writing a 4 wheeled robot code using the pi
10:25 robotustra I gonna do the platform on arduino
10:25 robotustra for 4 wheeled platform :)
10:25 blib robotustra: what kind of robot are you assuming?
10:26 blib steered? or non-steered?
10:26 robotustra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTTV3OHJAmU
10:26 robotustra tank mode
10:26 robotustra turns
10:27 blib why are you using pulleys? Why not direct drive?
10:28 robotustra because I need to decdrese the speed and increase the force
10:28 robotustra my robot wil weight about 40-50 kg
10:28 blib robotustra: what motors are you using?
10:29 robotustra http://www.ebay.com/itm/150RPM-Cylinder-Shape-Electric-Power-Gearbox-Geared-Motor-12VDC-/321294299980?hash=item4acea1f34c:g:tdYAAOSwMmBVlZog
10:30 blib http://www.inspectorbots.com/MINIBOT.html - are you trying to make one of these?
10:30 blib what's the torque?
10:31 blib no-load current? stall torque?
10:31 robotustra the torque is not so big
10:31 robotustra I do indoor robot, 1m/s max speed
10:32 robotustra stall current is about 300-400 mA
10:32 robotustra torque on a wheel is about 100-200 g x 12.5 cm
10:33 akem i wonder if there are robots fight with fire or acid, strong stuff
10:34 akem projectiles will not be allowed anywhere?
10:35 robotustra blib: I'm building this thing : http://imgur.com/xZEKXIT
10:51 mrdata robotustra, what size?
10:53 robotustra 140 cm from bottom to top
10:58 mrdata seems useful
10:58 mrdata will it be able rto fetch beer
10:58 mrdata and popcorn
10:59 robotustra sure
11:05 mrdata and do dishes?
11:09 mrdata fold laundry?
11:37 akem http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=H0Awse45b9E
11:37 akem 3 motors per leg
11:38 akem there is a micro ruby for ic also but vm is not available..also a ruby for arduino, translator sort of
11:39 veverak deshipu: ^^
11:39 veverak that micro controller looks interesting
11:40 akem anyone interested in ruby? or just c/c++ python
11:45 akem not that much apparently
11:49 robotustra https://media.giphy.com/media/mpPFnwxE72usw/giphy.gif
12:11 deshipu veverak: I saw it somewhere. It's very similar to Tote, only much more expensive and has the voltage regulator on board
12:15 veverak hmm
12:15 verak still thinks that if he would have rpi onboard of
12:16 blib is there a good and easy to use EKF somewhere implemented? Anyone using it on a 4-wheel robot?
12:16 veverak it oculd be easy to hack esp8266 onto gamepad
12:16 veverak :)
12:16 veverak or DIY gamepad-like device
12:17 veverak yeah, arduino esplora + esp8266 could be nice
12:17 veverak :)
12:21 blib where can I get help on EKF?
12:25 robotustra blib: tell us what you want to build finally
12:25 robotustra may be ppl give you better options
12:30 blib robotustra: Exactly what you are building - but with a ton of sensors - accelerometer - gyro - compass - etc - for outdoors
12:30 blib not to mention encoders on wheels
12:33 robotustra what are the sizes?
12:34 robotustra how many DOF? what battery capasity?
12:34 robotustra what robot will do?
12:35 robotustra type of vision?
12:35 robotustra Intelligence?
12:35 Snert__ what is EKF?
12:36 robotustra Extended Kalman Filter
12:36 robotustra I guess
12:36 Snert__ oh wow...that rocket science stuff :)
12:36 blib robotustra: even if I want to drive it on a straight line with a few sensors, I seem to need ekf
12:36 Snert__ or should I say...Robo Science
12:37 robotustra for compas or for acceleromenter?
12:38 robotustra there are sensors with built in Kalman Filter
12:38 blib robotustra: when you fuse data from these sensors, don't I need another level of filtering?
12:39 robotustra you might need, but you just can do very simple averaging
12:39 robotustra for good results
12:39 blib robotustra: do you know of a good implementation of ekf that has good docs?
12:39 robotustra what is the frequency rate you want to reas sensors?
12:40 robotustra No I didn't check yet, not there yet
12:40 blib Typically its 10s of times a second
12:40 robotustra probably will check it later
12:40 robotustra 10 Hz so
12:40 blib are you planning to use one?
12:40 blib what sensors are you getting?
12:40 robotustra no, I'm planning to use my own filters
12:41 robotustra I'll use encoders, hyros, accelerometers magnetometers
12:41 blib cool
12:41 blib why not use existing code?
12:41 robotustra current sence
12:42 robotustra do you know who is Frenkenshtein?
12:42 robotustra so I'm trying to avoid it
12:42 robotustra 1) I can easily modify my own code because I did it
12:43 robotustra 2) I can easily replace my own code with more optimal my code
12:43 robotustra if you'll take sombodies library - most probably you'll not know what are the limits of the code you use
12:44 robotustra what if I want to read at 25Hz?
12:44 robotustra and after I decide to read at 50Hz
12:44 robotustra with my code I can optimize and test it
12:45 robotustra but with 3rd party library it could be problematic
12:45 robotustra so I try to avoid using somebodies code
12:46 robotustra and last one reason : It's just so fun to write own code for own robot
12:47 robotustra it's just my humble opinion
12:47 robotustra and I can even write my own Kalman filter because I know math good enough for thit
12:48 robotustra this*
12:51 blib nice, thanks
12:53 robotustra and yes
12:54 robotustra if you are going to read you sensor only 10 times a second, most probably usual averaging by 3-5-10 readings will be enough
12:55 robotustra read at 50 Hz, do median filter or averaging - and you'll be fine
12:56 robotustra Kalman is needed when you don't have stable information from sensors or read them slowly
12:56 robotustra most of modern sensors could be read at 50+ Hz
13:02 robotustra blib: how many degree of freedom will have your robot?
13:03 deshipu the thing is, when you are first making something, writing your own code is easier
13:03 deshipu because 1) you don't have to learn API, 2) you are learning about what you will need anyways
13:04 deshipu however, when you have to maintain something, using external libraries is a blessing
13:04 deshipu as long as you pick ones that are being maintained already by someone else
13:05 deshipu so I think it's best to start with your own code, and when maintaining it becomes a chore, replace it with external libraries
13:10 verak recently finally stared to master properly python standart libra
13:11 robotustra confirm, good approach
13:11 veverak anyway
13:12 veverak making own implementation of library for specific task is perfect for understanding the task
13:12 veverak also makes life easier when you than have to work with external one
13:15 robotustra using libraries is good when you work in a team
13:19 deshipu veverak: implement your own time handling :P
13:19 robotustra good motor but expensive http://www.ebay.com/itm/TGX45-Long-Life-12Vdc-Planetary-Gear-Motor-with-8mm-Shaft-35-RPM-High-Torque-/221872503590?hash=item33a8a1bb26:g:kjIAAOSwgQ9Vl4P~
13:19 deshipu veverak: with timezones
13:19 veverak O:)
13:19 robotustra and yes, do not try to solve tasks which are already solved unless you are training
13:20 robotustra it's just a waist of the life
13:20 Snert__ can you take several own functions....cut/paste them into a file ... name it whatever.h .... and voila...it's a library?
13:20 robotustra no
13:20 Snert__ it's that simple?
13:20 veverak Snert__: that's how a lot of libraries are made
13:20 veverak but it's dumb
13:20 veverak :)
13:21 Snert__ I've been noticing a difference but not sure what I'm seeing.
13:21 robotustra library function usually more generalized instanse of what you usually need
13:21 veverak also
13:21 veverak library is set of functions that somehow work together
13:21 veverak and are designed to be used together
13:22 veverak "copy/paste several functions" can easily endup in a file
13:22 veverak that contains function that won't work together
13:22 veverak :)
13:22 Snert__ makes sense.
13:22 robotustra that's why I don't like libraries )
13:23 maiden ah
13:23 Snert__ my purpose would be just to trim out stuff that is done...no further changes. Just get it out of the middle of my code where I'm working and changing stuff alot.
13:24 Snert__ I suppose that's a stupid reason to make a library.
13:24 robotustra do you use version control?
13:24 deshipu it's fine
13:24 deshipu especially in python
13:24 Snert__ no, I dont.
13:24 deshipu where you basically make libraries all the time
13:24 robotustra SAVE WORKING copy before do any modifications
13:25 deshipu err, use a version control system
13:25 robotustra I don't use perl
13:25 robotustra and pyton
13:25 deshipu robotustra: thanks for the info
13:25 maiden perl is ... bad for ones health
13:25 robotustra I don't consider this as a serious languages
13:25 deshipu I use whatever tools best fit the job at hand
13:25 maiden thats the spirit!
13:26 deshipu which tends to be python and C a lot
13:26 robotustra I use C
13:26 maiden same for me
13:26 deshipu some javascript
13:26 deshipu and sometimes a little lua
13:26 robotustra and do not want to touch puthon even with 12 feet stick
13:26 deshipu robotustra: nobody asks you to
13:26 maiden but ruby is quite nice as well ;) like the hard typed part and 4.next == 5 :p
13:27 deshipu maiden: I don't enjoy the culture around the ruby community
13:27 robotustra deshipu: life sometimes asks
13:27 deshipu maiden: and node.js
13:27 deshipu robotustra: then tell it "no"
13:27 maiden gem hell for life :D
13:27 deshipu robotustra: say "no" to life!
13:27 deshipu life causes cancer, you know
13:28 robotustra prefer to have my life without python
13:28 deshipu awesome, thanks for sharing
13:28 robotustra for nothing
13:28 robotustra and yes, I hate c++
13:29 maiden grr, cant get the damned clocks of my cortex M4 to shut down properly.. have an external clock and want to run in lowpower mode, managed to get down to 1.5mA for a while, but now i have hit a wall at 5.5mA...
13:30 robotustra sleepmode?
13:30 robotustra you want to put CPU in sleep mode?
13:30 maiden and thats with some external stuff connected as well, like MagAcc, RTC clock etc. etc.
13:31 maiden when i enter VLPR and VLPW mode it do not go as low as i wish.
13:31 maiden i guess some I2C, SPI, UART stuff might still be running, but i think i have shut down them correctly..
13:32 maiden VLPR = Very Low Power Run mode
13:33 robotustra may be some leds steal your electrons?
13:33 maiden its a Freescale Kinetis K10, Cortex M4 (one of the boring ones without FPU) if you are interested ;)
13:33 robotustra I'm now on K64
13:34 robotustra but we do not go into low power consumption
13:35 robotustra may be you have to stop clock?
13:35 maiden i do, we got a 500mAh battery and we need as long standby time as possible
13:35 robotustra sleeping sensor?
13:35 maiden i have a interrupt from the MagAcc that must trigger the CPU to awake.
13:35 maiden GPS tracker ;)
13:36 robotustra could you check the clock?
13:36 robotustra with oscilloscope?
13:36 robotustra chinise GPS tracker for kids?
13:37 maiden Swedish GPS tracker for dogs and kids ;) http://www.traxfamily.com/
13:37 robotustra ha ha
13:37 maiden but its made in china, so same same ;)
13:37 robotustra GPS Tracker for kids and pets
13:38 robotustra how much is one?
13:38 maiden we are changing pricing and releasing new products soon.
13:38 robotustra do you use bloc chip inside?
13:39 robotustra I saw similar on ebay
13:39 maiden we got a jtag interface ;)
13:40 Snert__ $250.00 - it better do the dishes too.
13:40 maiden 249$ with a 2 year data plan covering 33 countries. we are going for 99$ start price later but you have to buy data after that instead..
13:40 Snert__ I want my own cell tower at home and provide it for myself.
13:41 maiden Snert__ freeBTS or YateBTS?
13:41 robotustra http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC2.A0.H1.Xgps+tracker+kids.TRS0&_nkw=gps+tracker+kids&_sacat=0
13:41 maiden *openBTS
13:41 Snert__ I dunno, haven't looked at the subject yet.
13:41 robotustra plenty of them
13:41 Snert__ but thx for the info :)
13:41 Snert__ I need somebody's hand to be not in my pocket for recurring monthly charge.
13:42 maiden Snert__: go for a BladeRF + RPI and YateBTS, and you have your own GSM +LTE basestation for around 400$ ;)
13:42 robotustra Snert__: what else do you want?
13:42 Snert__ I could handle that.
13:43 maiden i use it for factory testing of our products and roaming emulation for testing gsm handling and just for fun at home ;)
13:43 Snert__ robotustra: maybe ... a pie in the sky? :)
13:43 robotustra "I build my own LunaPark with black Jack and bitches" (c)
13:43 maiden you know, if you where that kind of guy, you could easily make a man in the middle attack and tap in to phone calls or just collect IMEI/IMSI numbers, you can have very fun with those ;)
13:44 robotustra or just buy hackerSIM card and do the fun
13:45 Snert__ I'm a goodguy...I just wanna provide cell data service for my own self is all.
13:45 robotustra gps stuff is interesting but too big for investigation
13:45 robotustra Snert__: talk to yourself?
13:46 maiden the problem with chinese "GPS trackers" is that they seldom are gps trackers...
13:46 maiden http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Vehicle-Kid-Car-Tracker-Locator-GPS-GPRS-GSM-Real-Time-Tracking-Device-SOS-/271956988064?hash=item3f51e650a0:g:z08AAOSwPcVVzUY~
13:46 maiden this got only GSM :p
13:46 Snert__ robotustra: no, devices talking to home.
13:46 robotustra you mean they are just GSM phones?
13:46 maiden and its not a real time tracker, its press a button and you send a sms with the coordinates or you send a sms to the device to get a position.
13:47 Snert__ robotustra: an alternate internet connection.
13:47 maiden robotustra: they use GSM triangulation, gets your position within a football field basicly :p
13:47 robotustra maiden: so you claim that you GPS tracker is real time?
13:47 maiden that depends on your definition of real time.
13:48 maiden we can stream a position every second
13:48 robotustra what is the update time?
13:48 robotustra ok 1 Hz
13:48 maiden that depends on how often you want your data to be sent.
13:49 robotustra maiden: do you use u-blox chipset?
13:49 maiden sadly
13:49 maiden yes
13:49 maiden for GSM and GPS
13:49 robotustra ok
13:49 maiden but we will change
13:49 robotustra why?
13:49 maiden because they suck so hard!
13:49 robotustra why?
13:50 robotustra you'll change for what?
13:50 maiden we have wasted several 100k$ on testing/debugging/verification just because their products do not work as intended.
13:50 maiden we will probably go for a MediaTek CPU + GPS
13:51 maiden in that way we get more power, can build a smaller product, less power consumption to a much lower price ;)
13:52 robotustra yeah, I noticed that a lot of american product do not work as claimed
13:52 robotustra americans have very distant idea about quality in electronics
13:53 maiden but UBLOX is a Swiss company?
13:53 robotustra they are late about 10 years from Europ
13:53 robotustra murican I guess
13:53 maiden u-blox was founded in 1997 and is headquartered in Thalwil, Switzerland.
13:53 robotustra Thalwil, Switzerland
13:53 robotustra shit
13:53 robotustra :)
13:54 robotustra but muricans are still giving a shit
13:54 robotustra RevenueIncrease 270 Million CHF (2014).,[1][2]
13:54 robotustra they are growing
13:55 maiden right, battery life.
13:55 maiden i have made some calculations
13:55 robotustra I work with Kinetis K64 and it gives shit
13:56 robotustra they made 4 releases of libraries in 1 year
13:56 robotustra idiots
13:56 maiden sending 50k data with GPRS costs about ~0.01544mAh, so if you send every seckond thats 55mAh/h so our 500mAh battery would last around 10h
13:57 robotustra we'd rewritten some part of code 3-4 times becase that idiots changed API 4 times
13:57 maiden and thats only the cost of transmitting data over GPRS, the power consumption of MCU and GPS in not included
13:57 robotustra you don't take into account that it's "ideal working conditions"
13:58 maiden exactly
13:58 robotustra in real life it will take 50% more
13:59 robotustra how do you measure small power consumption?
13:59 robotustra 5 digits after comma?
13:59 maiden over many samples and time ;)
13:59 robotustra so it's averaging
13:59 robotustra how many tries?
14:00 Snert__ sounds like accurate averaging though.
14:00 maiden the number i based it was from a research paper
14:00 robotustra I bet you didn't make 10000 experiments
14:00 maiden ny Fluke only have a resolution down to 10nA :(
14:01 maiden as i said, it was from a paper.
14:01 robotustra maiden: what about verify what is it in the paper?
14:01 robotustra :)
14:01 robotustra u-blox didn't teach you yet?
14:02 maiden hahah yea,
14:02 robotustra Don't beleive to anyone
14:02 robotustra Do you own research
14:03 maiden as i said, i took a number that they have gotten empirically in the paper and tuned it a bit to fit with what i see on our product.
14:03 robotustra and for the estimation I would use 0.02 mAh
14:03 robotustra it's just tossing, you try to cheat yourself :)
14:03 maiden 3g takes 2.5 the power consumption that GSM have
14:03 maiden 4g is horrible..
14:04 robotustra why?
14:04 robotustra to fast?
14:04 SpeedEvil That really highly depends on stuff.
14:04 maiden take in account that we always maintain a data connection and we send 1 packet of about 30kb every second.
14:05 SpeedEvil ah
14:05 SpeedEvil yes, that will trigger 3g's 'high rate' mode
14:05 maiden if you want to send much data, 3g and 4g is more efficient.
14:05 SpeedEvil maiden: you have to send it every second?
14:05 maiden but for few small packages its horrible.
14:05 maiden if you want "real time tracking"
14:06 SpeedEvil real time doesn't mean 1s, in most reasonable cases
14:06 maiden it depends on what resolution the costumer wants ;)
14:06 SpeedEvil True.
14:06 SpeedEvil an accel could greatly reduce frequency
14:06 Snert__ NSA wants real time.
14:06 Snert__ I bet.
14:06 maiden real time is withing a given time from the previous event ;)
14:07 robotustra the max speed of kid is about 2 m/s - it 10 seconds it will be 20 meters, so once in 10 seconds is a good real time
14:07 maiden but its not a "hard realtime system" ;)
14:07 SpeedEvil robotustra: you want to trigger if it starts accellerating at 9.8m/s or so probably.
14:08 robotustra most probably thier GPS chip does not work in 3d
14:08 robotustra and yes, kids do not fly
14:08 maiden we actually have an automatic mode that change updaterate based on your speed, so if you are walking to your car and then drive across town and continue to walk, it will adapt the sendrate to your speed.
14:09 robotustra loogical
14:09 robotustra so the main trouble is to force it sleep?
14:10 robotustra now you have 5.5mA?
14:10 robotustra and you want 0.5?
14:10 maiden yes
14:10 robotustra what is it's happend that it's not possible?
14:10 maiden if i shut it off it will still draw around 0.3mA because of other components
14:11 robotustra by technical reason?
14:11 maiden i have managed to get it to 1.6mA, but then the interrupt was not enabled on the pin i need.
14:12 robotustra I know that empty chip draw less current
14:12 robotustra 1.6 is still too much
14:12 robotustra use M0?
14:13 maiden its better than it was before ;) but i agree ;)
14:14 maiden https://jan.rychter.com/enblog/kinetis-k-and-l-series-power-consumption
14:16 robotustra numbers are bigger than you say
14:16 robotustra so use M0+
14:17 robotustra when you'll finish - I want 2 devices
14:17 maiden no can do right now, the product is in production and have been for sale for 3 years, we have several thousand customers..
14:17 maiden so changing on the current product is out of question
14:18 maiden we are going to build a few new products soon.
14:18 robotustra I have to be sure that you fixed the issue with current consumption :)
14:18 maiden then we will go with better stuff ;)
14:18 Snert__ yea, v2.0 will have all the good stuff :)
14:19 maiden i started quite recently so i have just had to clean up after others poor decisions and incompetence...
14:19 robotustra maiden: I'm not in a hurry, could wait for v2
14:19 robotustra that's good
14:19 maiden i will go on parental leave in december to april, will spend all my time with my kids and building robots :p
14:20 maiden do not think they will do much when i am away, so it will probably be available next autumn...
14:20 robotustra 1 year could wait
14:20 robotustra kids are growing slowly
14:21 robotustra first one?
14:21 robotustra I mean kid?
14:22 robotustra why do you have so short parental leave?
14:22 maiden got two, one 1year and 3 months and another thats 2.5 years
14:22 robotustra you'll have 3?
14:22 robotustra too much
14:23 maiden because i am quite essential at work and i was off at parental leave 6 months last year ;)
14:23 maiden btw, look at this: https://plus.google.com/115118068134567436838/posts/V2wWvYKrp9L
14:23 maiden our first prototype
14:23 maiden way before my time
14:23 maiden some old guy made it, wrote the software in assembly as well :p
14:24 robotustra ha ha
14:24 maiden i think its insanely impressive, with focus on insane..
14:24 anonnumberanon i wonder if serial.print() produces jitter
14:24 robotustra when I started in my company I also maintained code in assembly
14:25 robotustra maiden: that guy did the first prototype?
14:25 robotustra anonnumberanon: what do you mean?
14:25 maiden Snert__: here is one of my BladeRF: when I started in my company I also maintained code in assem
14:25 maiden wtf..
14:25 maiden https://plus.google.com/115118068134567436838/posts/BNdoz8Yr7Ts
14:25 maiden i fail at copy paste..
14:26 Snert__ interesting stuff
14:26 robotustra we also doin RF stuff
14:27 maiden now its time to build my generic biped simulator in Panda3d and python.
14:27 veverak maiden: there are allready simulators
14:27 robotustra what is Panda3D?
14:27 veverak :)
14:27 anonnumberanon ys pls
14:28 maiden i was going for ROS + Gazebo, have used that a bit before, but right now i want something clean, simple with no/little overhead.
14:28 anonnumberanon >Python
14:28 anonnumberanon >no overhead
14:28 maiden have been looking at doing simulations in Blender with MORSE
14:29 maiden or directly in FreeCAD or other
14:29 maiden but i just want something simple that i have full control over.
14:30 anonnumberanon that sounds really fun
14:30 maiden and i plan on playing around with AI in python as well, so i will do the control scheme running in remote.
14:31 robotustra maiden: why don't you want autonomous robot?
14:31 robotustra build it real, why do you need simulator?
14:31 maiden so first a physics simulator with a socket or serial interface then i create the control code separately and hook it up. then i can hook other things up or make it ROS compatible.
14:31 maiden robotustra: of cause, is there another way?
14:32 robotustra I'm doing it
14:32 robotustra 1) make hardware
14:32 robotustra 2) program it
14:32 robotustra 3) enjoy
14:32 maiden no you got it wrong!
14:32 robotustra why?
14:32 robotustra I did it with my robot's eyes
14:33 robotustra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om_hhY21Tbg
14:33 maiden 0. plan, read scientific articles, 1a. prototype hardware in 10 itterations, 1b prototype control software, 2. get frustrated and create a AI to handle all fine tuning ;)
14:34 robotustra maiden: may I ask a question - how many iterations of planning you did before deliver a baby?
14:34 maiden a lot :p
14:35 robotustra haha
14:35 maiden we had to practice day and night for weeks!
14:35 maiden ^_^
14:35 robotustra it's not a "planning"
14:35 anonnumberanon okay i get 8 microseconds jitter on servo wave with four servos, I'll try ten servos and see if that increases the jitter
14:35 maiden no, but with a child you got 9 months of planning when you have succeeded to get started
14:36 maiden but i see where you want to go with this.
14:36 robotustra maiden: so, just start do hardware
14:36 robotustra and you'll do everything on your way
14:36 maiden did that last year ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6QL-vpKNac
14:37 robotustra plan, read scientific litertuure
14:39 robotustra what is this? a leg?
14:39 maiden btw, here is some other robots i have designed and built: https://plus.google.com/115118068134567436838/posts/E6YxyddodWh
14:40 anonnumberanon This URL may be incorrect, the post may have been deleted, o
14:40 Snert__ it says Imma hosebag with no privledges to see it
14:42 robotustra it's not shared
14:42 maiden I SEE WILL FIX
14:46 robotustra maiden: do you know kjell?
14:47 maiden damn, now i had to re-share everything, for some reason it was not public.
14:47 maiden https://plus.google.com/115118068134567436838/posts/1zssXNTHfT4
14:47 anonnumberanon umh dude now i can see your bedroom's webcam
14:47 maiden i was responsible for founding and mechanics and some sw development as well.
14:47 maiden heheh
14:49 robotustra are these footbal playing robots?
14:49 maiden indeed
14:50 robotustra what motors are on omniwheels?
14:50 robotustra you used kinekt?
14:50 maiden the green prototype or the other "real ones"
14:50 maiden yes, that was the hottest back in 2012 when we built those ;)
14:51 maiden they are running ROS
14:52 maiden here is some ball detection with OpenCV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQGsKacLJxk
14:55 robotustra good
14:56 robotustra do you have delay berween motion and capture?
14:56 maiden there is always a delay ;)
14:57 robotustra but how much?
14:57 maiden do not remember
14:58 robotustra 0.4? 1.0?
14:58 robotustra about
14:59 maiden are you talking ms or sec?
14:59 robotustra sec
14:59 robotustra how many FPS?
15:00 maiden we used a kinect, i think we used 30FPS, we just made some processing in openCV then acted directly on the output.
15:00 maiden it should be much less then 1 second latency in that process.
15:01 maiden but not every frame did trigger an action of cause ;)
15:01 robotustra I have about 0.2 s on my cameras from real motion to image processing
15:02 anonnumberanon what's the bottleneck in these systems?
15:02 maiden often a high framerate is more important then a high resolution
15:02 anonnumberanon are you talking end of image processing or before image processing?
15:02 robotustra I think webcam itself
15:02 maiden the PS3 eye is great in that way, think you can get 120 fps from them.
15:03 robotustra imabe processing is about 0.05-0.1s
15:03 anonnumberanon with a Pi and the Pi camera we did like less than 500 ms this years, sent via wifi to a laptop, seemed real time
15:03 maiden it all depends on what you want to do
15:03 robotustra for now I'm happy
15:04 robotustra but in the futire I want 1280x640 30fps camera small enough to put it in the robot eye
15:04 robotustra future*
15:05 robotustra because eyes of my robot are moving
15:06 robotustra but I have now 640x480 @ 17 fps from each eye right now
15:07 maiden oh, thats not great
15:07 anonnumberanon does it recognize faces?
15:08 robotustra it's not ok but I think good enouph to start with something
15:08 robotustra anonnumberanon: not yet
15:08 robotustra I'm working on low level filters
15:09 maiden you shuld try SURF points ;) you can do a lot of fun things with them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUU_kNls5Ak
15:09 robotustra http://imgur.com/hGYoLeq
15:09 maiden this is a bit more awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dln257k2Sc
15:09 anonnumberanon :) that's creepy
15:10 robotustra what is creapy? it's simple motion detect
15:10 maiden the link, 1? fail?
15:10 robotustra kids are jumpint
15:11 maiden anonnumberanon: you should watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9HMn6bd-v8
15:11 robotustra the detection of points is not very good on the 1st video
15:12 maiden robotustra: lock on the last then ;)
15:13 maiden omg, i have to eat, my English starts to suffer from starvation..
15:13 robotustra go go go
15:14 robotustra go home soon
15:15 anonnumberanon maiden, ok that's impressive
15:16 Snert__ such fun projects
15:18 robotustra yeah, gonna work on my robot tonight
15:18 maiden indeed ;)
15:19 maiden just a tip, go for a kinect or ladar, do not try to build a stereo vision system.. its more work then it looks.
15:19 anonnumberanon i should probably eat and hook up 6 more servos, 2 legs, then hook up the slide pots on the remote controller
15:20 maiden lived in Shangahai for 6 months and where going to develop a SLAM algorithm, but we spent most of the time trying to get good depth data from two PS3 Eyes
15:22 robotustra maiden: I need it and I'll do it, sorry
15:23 robotustra I'm already getting good depth data
15:23 maiden good :D
15:23 robotustra actually I need a short range, let say 1-2 meters
15:24 maiden our camera mounts was to flexible, so when the robot started to move it got... interesting..
15:24 robotustra ah, my eyes are in rigid frame
15:25 robotustra the outer ring is fixed, there is no lashes at all
15:27 robotustra see u
16:44 maiden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdCqg51h_4I&feature=youtu.be
16:44 maiden initial test :D
16:48 robopal cool
17:55 anonnumberanon maiden, I'm ordering the books on neural networks (vol1, vol2)
17:56 akem buy one and get a second one for an attractive price!
18:22 maiden . k
18:23 maiden did you watch the video i linked to yesterday?
18:24 maiden this series is really really good: https://youtu.be/bxe2T-V8XRs
18:34 anonnumberanon Not yet.
18:34 maiden best way to start ;)
18:35 anonnumberanon ok
18:36 maiden if you buy a book on neural networks, i am pretty sure you will be faced with a wall of mathematical formulas that can be quite offputting.
18:37 anonnumberanon but robot God said to read it
18:37 anonnumberanon dinner here I come
18:37 Snert__ I saw some of that.
18:37 Snert__ There was zeroway to understand it.
18:38 maiden what? ok, im a bit broken, have looked through several video lectures and read some books, and it almost always makes it seem harder then it is.
18:39 maiden the youtube video i linked to makes it look easy and understandable ;)
18:39 Snert__ no I mean the equations.
18:39 Snert__ there's just no understanding the equations.
18:39 maiden pause and google is your friend ;)
18:40 Snert__ if one is so inclined.
18:40 Snert__ <--- which I aint.
18:41 Snert__ 27 layers of integral sign all stacked up in infuinite stuff.
18:41 Snert__ nooooo way :)
18:41 Snert__ lol
18:42 maiden ^_^
18:43 maiden here is what i used when i tried to learn at first ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikJboPQDT0
18:44 maiden its worse ;)
18:44 maiden but its a good watch ;)
18:49 maiden gah, time to sleep, no more time to play with Panda3D and bullet physics :'(
18:55 maiden Snert__: here is a soooft intro to Neural Networks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHvf7Tagt18
19:00 Snert__ aint my thing.
19:00 Snert__ trig is as far as I go.
19:00 maiden there is no math in the last video ;)
19:01 Snert__ I guess my robot willnever learn on it's own
19:01 maiden but you do not need to know how it works to use it!
19:01 Keukpa ah NNets are fun.... about 30% of my PhD was based on recurrent neural nets :)
19:02 maiden Snert__: http://pybrain.org/docs/quickstart/network.html
19:03 maiden Keukpa: have you seen Nengo? http://nengo.ca/
19:07 Keukpa maiden: coool! That looks amazballs! I used PDP++ when I was doing my research.
19:08 maiden that was my reaction as well when i first saw it.
19:08 maiden you can install it with pip install nengo
19:08 maiden and its a nice gui with visualisation!!! :p
19:17 Keukpa so it's python based?
19:17 maiden its hardware accelerated
19:17 Keukpa I wonder if it'll run on a RPi2? :)
19:18 maiden the old GUI was java based, they recently switched to the new one, i think its python with QT bindings
19:18 Keukpa ah, should work on RPi then....
19:18 maiden Keupa, i would be suprised if it did not run on the RPi
19:18 Keukpa hmmm although I have way too many projects on the go at the minute! LOL
19:19 maiden its based on NEF, http://compneuro.uwaterloo.ca/research/nef/benefits-of-the-nef.html
19:20 Keukpa yeah, I just saw that.... that's pretty good as there's lots of info about on that
19:21 maiden i am bulding a biped simulator in Panda3d, i think i will hook it up to a neural network or some other machine learning
19:22 maiden found an interesting paper about using "two part q-learning" for controlling humanoid walk ^_^
19:23 Keukpa there's a fair bit of genetic algorithm stuff for bipedal walking. But I genuinely feel a more engineering aproach is suited to that, although I appreciate the challenges doing it learning based :)
19:23 maiden have been looking at Welch Labs neural network and math videos for hours now..
19:24 Keukpa +s
19:24 maiden i wish i had him as my teacher in school.
19:24 Keukpa :)
19:30 maiden hmm, this was actually new for me, have managed to miss "polar" form of complex numbers in school :D
19:31 maiden w8, hmm, i have used this before, but never understood that it was considered complex numbers ;)
19:45 anonnumberanon write down your questions, your neural networks will tell you the answers or hints tomorrow morning
19:52 maiden good night, have to get up to go to my job in 5h...