#robotics Logs

Nov 10 2015

00:10 Anniepoo how you move your legs is critical to how much energy is used, but rue is correct, anything that has the right legs off the ground 'works'
00:12 rue_house part of the trick is knowing how fast you need to get the new legs into position, if moving fast, the legs may fall out of their workable space before your update cycle is done for them all
00:13 zhanx And you burn out servos doing that
00:21 warlorck Basically you need to wait that the tripod on the ground finish to put the flying legs on the ground ?
00:33 rue_house mass acts like a position capacitor
00:33 rue_house the more you have, the more resistant the body is to changes in position when all your legs are up
00:33 rue_house no wait thats wrong
00:34 rue_house your gonna fall at 9.81 nomatter what
00:35 rue_house oh I know why the speakers are so quiet, their off
00:37 warlorck rue_house: Sorry for the delay of my answers, I just check informations meanwhile
01:35 deshipu veverak: I used an old keyboard, but for the new one, I ordered them on massdrop
04:27 veverak I see
04:29 deshipu all in all, if you are buying new switches and keycaps, a hand-made keyboard is going to cost you the same as a ready one, or even more
04:29 deshipu so the only plus is customization
04:29 verak would need only aray of 4x4 switches prop
04:29 deshipu raid your hackerspace for old keyboards :P
04:47 deshipu veverak: making a keynav keyboard?
04:49 veverak I was just wondering
04:49 veverak http://topgamingkeyboards.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/razer-nostromo.jpg
04:49 veverak how hard could it be do make something like this
04:49 veverak it costs over 80 usd ...
04:51 deshipu the case is the hard part
04:51 deshipu but I guess you could 3d-print it
04:52 deshipu the software for programming it would be some work too
04:52 deshipu unless you are happy hardcoding stuff in firmware
04:53 veverak yeah, 3d printing for the case
04:54 veverak aaaand, I suppose arduino could do the trick?
04:54 veverak either arduino will act as keyboard, or it iwll just send it to daemon on the computer
04:54 veverak should be doable
04:54 veverak but nah, I don't suppose I would make it 'BFU friendly' in terms of configuration
04:55 deshipu a pro micor
04:55 deshipu pro micro
04:55 veverak yeah
04:55 veverak or even 'mega'
04:55 deshipu it can act as a keyboard, mouse and joystick all at the same time
04:55 veverak got spare one
04:56 veverak and I suppose I could add some more stuff like display
04:56 veverak or... :)
04:56 veverak http://www.exellent.be/images/foto/ITLOGAMINGG13.jpg logitech alternative
04:57 deshipu no reason to use meag
04:57 deshipu mega
04:57 deshipu hmm, I seem to have poor hand coordination today
05:00 veverak will see :)
05:02 veverak deshipu: btw: part where you put your hand
05:02 veverak would be propably made 'manualy' and not printed
05:02 veverak to fit my hand perfectly
05:02 veverak :)
05:07 veverak also, if designed properly
05:07 veverak I could easily modify it during the time
05:11 deshipu like those mice with lots of knobs for tuning their shape?
05:12 veverak I was more thinking about reprinting parts :D
05:12 veverak you know, made it from multiple parts
05:12 veverak and 3d print one part in multiple versions... :)
05:13 veverak deshipu: knob system seems expensive and complicated compared to 3d print new part
05:13 veverak if that part is not big...
05:13 veverak which depends on design :)
05:15 deshipu gotcha
05:17 veverak anyway
05:17 veverak apart from gaming
05:17 veverak it could be interesting for controlling robot
05:17 veverak damn it
05:17 veverak and I've got maybe even 30 days before ma pro micro arrives :/
05:19 veverak and servos for tote nowhere to be seen either
05:20 veverak deshipu: also, I was recently searching for alternative for raspb A
05:20 veverak didn't found a thing
05:20 veverak how is vocore handling streaming video?
05:23 LiohAu synchronous belt vs gears? how would you choose?
05:25 deshipu veverak: slowly :)
05:28 veverak nah
05:28 veverak damn
05:28 verak needs something small that is able to handle ca
05:29 deshipu veverak: openmv? ;)
05:30 veverak got problems with manufactoring I heard
05:30 veverak :)
05:34 veverak nah
05:34 veverak and FPV cameras are expensive
05:35 deshipu analog camera maybe?
05:36 veverak yeah
05:36 deshipu http://flitetest.com/articles/diy-micro-5-8ghz-fpv
05:39 veverak yeah, price not ...
05:39 veverak :)
05:39 veverak I suppose raspi + raspi cam will have to do the trick
05:40 deshipu well, you can get that camera for below $15
05:40 deshipu and the transmitter for another $15
05:40 deshipu http://flitetest.com/articles/diy-micro-5-8ghz-fpv
05:40 deshipu argh, sorry, wrong link
05:41 deshipu http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__73600__Aomway_Mini_200mW_VTX_and_FPV_Tuned_600TVL_Camera_Combo_NTSC_2_.html
05:42 veverak yeah, receiver?
05:42 veverak and soemthing that would stream it into PC itself?
05:42 veverak nah, I wish OpenMV would be ready :(
05:43 deshipu why would you need to stream it into PC?
05:43 deshipu just receive it with any TV
05:44 deshipu or those fpv googles
05:44 deshipu goggles
05:44 verak still wants to have some way to analyze that videostream b
05:45 veverak and work with it
05:45 veverak :)
05:46 deshipu well, rpi is not going to have enough power to do more than simple analysis
05:46 deshipu maybe beaglebone
05:47 veverak but it has enough power to feed the stream to device on same 'wifi'
05:47 veverak :)
05:47 veverak which will analyse for it
05:57 deshipu remember about latency
05:58 veverak yeah... :/
05:58 veverak thanks god that tote is relatively slow
05:58 veverak :)
06:00 deshipu I need to write that i2c servo driver
06:00 deshipu so that you can use rpi with i2c on tote
06:02 maiden deshipu, i use BBB a lot, its nice :D
06:02 maiden currently using it as a PCB tester and JTAG adapter and data logger, its nice with 4x UART :D
06:04 veverak deshipu: I would do it
06:04 veverak IF I HAD THAT GOD DAMN SERVOS
06:04 veverak p.S: yeas, I am getting nervous
06:04 veverak :0
06:04 deshipu maiden: have you seen https://hackaday.io/project/4395-beaglelogic ?
06:06 maiden sweet! but got a saleae, and using a cheap current measurement module from ebay on my own break out board.
06:07 deshipu maiden: it's just software
06:07 deshipu there is a shield for 5V logic, but that's optional
06:09 maiden ah, i see.
06:10 maiden while sampling, do you still have full control of the pins that are used to read data?
06:10 deshipu no idea, I still haven't used it myself
06:11 maiden ok
06:12 maiden looks nice any way :D
06:17 veverak deshipu: btw: when you will arive to pycon?
06:18 deshipu veverak: friday midnight
06:22 veverak k
06:35 deshipu unless there is a train from prague that we didn't know about
06:36 veverak that train
06:36 veverak usually got delay
06:36 veverak :)
07:06 veverak deshipu: I need 2s li-po for tote?
07:06 verak forgot conversation be
07:06 deshipu 1s is enough
07:07 deshipu but you will need 2s for rpi
07:07 verak can get 2s from hackerspace as s
07:07 deshipu 2s may be too high for the servos
07:07 veverak I also got li-po BEC 5v
07:07 deshipu ah, then fine
07:07 veverak 5V/5A
07:07 veverak it's big
07:08 veverak but it would be perfectly save than
07:08 deshipu safe
07:08 veverak !!! :)
07:09 deshipu but you will want to use different resistor for the voltage divider for the battery monitoring then
07:10 veverak ehmm
07:10 veverak do I need to monitor it then?
07:10 veverak that thing is there to turn it off..
07:10 deshipu well, you don't have to if you don't want to
07:11 deshipu but it's nice to be able to tell "running low on juice, look for a charging station"
07:11 deshipu of course you can add that later
07:13 veverak yeah
08:49 Snert is profibus used much in robotics? or where do you find alot of profibus?
09:02 deshipu never heard of it
09:23 Snert I would see success using I2C or SPI per the tutorial. Then move to different code if that's whatya want.
09:23 Snert is profibus used much in robotics? or where do you find alot of profibus?
09:28 rue_house wahts profibus, is it professor Invented bus? one where you have to pay just to talk about it?
09:29 deshipu 1. use profit bus, 2. ???, 3. PROFIT
09:29 rue_house use profitt bus and see into the future?
09:31 Snert I dunno. evidently it's used in absolute encoders for some type of machinery.
09:31 Snert I wonder what kind of machinery or arena profibus is used in.
09:31 rue_house why did we have to invent another bus?
09:32 rue_house is this like linux editors?
09:32 Snert since there actually is a profibus shield for an arduino, it sorta opens up my buying options.
09:32 rue_house vi vim ed sed ted...
09:33 deshipu ex
09:33 rue_house emacs... its a long list
09:34 deshipu they added editor to emacs?
09:34 rue_house heh
09:34 deshipu http://sheep.art.pl/Unix%20Koan
09:34 deshipu :)
09:36 rue_house heh
09:37 deshipu http://paste.sheep.art.pl/d67747c2-8cc0-4ec6-b000-60e14859250a
09:38 deshipu I'm considering making holes in the ball, so I can access the power switch :/
09:38 Snert guess I'll just skip all profibus absolute encoders.
09:38 deshipu or maybe I should use a contactron for the power switch?
09:38 rue_house why not use IR?
09:39 deshipu because ir requires power
09:39 deshipu I could put it on a magnet to switch it off
09:39 rue_house yes...
09:40 rue_house tho I'm sure a carefully made IR circuit could draw so little it wouldn't detract much from the runtime
09:40 deshipu also, I think acrylic is not transparent to ir?
09:40 rue_house it'd be fine
09:40 rue_house its hard to block
09:44 rue_house how about this
09:44 rue_house use a fet to swtich the power on
09:44 rue_house make the fet light controlled, you put the robot in the dark, and it loses power
09:44 deshipu wow, reed switches are expensive
09:45 deshipu two dollars
09:45 rue_house have an old motherbaord?
09:45 deshipu nope, I got rid of most junk when I moved
09:45 rue_house and an old nightlight?
09:45 deshipu now I regeret it
09:45 rue_house hah, pay your $2 fine for getting rid of your bulk parts
09:46 rue_house +8 shipping, + a week delay
09:46 rue_house just thnk, an old muffin fan and you would be set
09:47 deshipu shipping is free, but three weeks
09:47 rue_house yup
09:48 deshipu good thing I have so many ongoing projects
09:48 rue_house do you live in an apartment?
09:48 deshipu I can switch to something else while I wait
09:48 deshipu yes
09:48 rue_house I'd bet someone in 9 units around you has an old scrap computer in their closet they meant to get rif of a year ago
09:49 deshipu ah, but I don't speak the language
09:49 rue_house I hope its a big appartment block of you would have to go for a walk to find 9 units
09:49 rue_house there used to be a graet episode of the twilight zone
09:51 rue_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Curious_Case_of_Edgar_Witherspoon
09:53 rue_house something about him running from oen apartment to the next asking everyone desperitly for some kinda nicknack
09:56 deshipu may be amusing, but my grandmother died of Ainzheimer's
09:56 deshipu it's not so fun if it happens seriously
09:57 deshipu and a frail old lady is surprisingly strong when she thinks she fights for her life
10:06 LiohAu anybody knows the difference between ultrasound sensors like this one : http://fritzing.org/media/fritzing-repo/projects/h/hc-sr04-project/images/HC-SR04-2.jpg and this one : https://www.dfrobot.com/wiki/images/0/0a/SRF02_Ultrasonic_sensor_2.png
10:07 LiohAu can't find a link that explains why ones needs 2 elements while the other needs only 1
10:07 LiohAu and does it affect quality
10:12 LiohAu well I know my askings are always hard to answer :P
10:14 Tom_itx one is smaller
10:14 LiohAu not so bad :P
10:15 Tom_itx seems one uses the same sensor for ping and reply
10:16 Snert I'd get both and see which one I liked better.
10:16 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/maxbot/image027.jpg
10:16 Tom_itx i used the ones with 2
10:17 Tom_itx along with sharp IR sensors
10:17 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/largebot/largebot_index.php
10:17 Tom_itx or polaroid sonar
10:17 deshipu I even managed to solder that tof sensor!
10:17 LiohAu well I had good feedback on the HC-SR04, but they are really ugly
10:17 Tom_itx which are good for about 30'
10:18 Tom_itx so you're going for pretty not functionality?
10:18 LiohAu so I would like to use the others, but nobody that I know used them yet.
10:18 deshipu LiohAu: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12785
10:19 Snert take a chance :) It's an adventure :)
10:19 LiohAu Tom_itx: yes I would like to integrate them in a shell
10:20 LiohAu an ultrasonic sensor remains a basic sensor, so I assume that I can filter models on esthetic criterias ^^
10:20 deshipu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-crgQGdpZR0
10:20 LiohAu deshipu: this one is not ultrasonic at all, right? it's a kind of sharp IR sensor, no?
10:22 deshipu LiohAu: it's a time-of-flight sensor, it behaves like the ultrasound ones, but uses light instead of ultrasound
10:22 deshipu LiohAu: the sharp sensors measure reflection
10:22 Tom_itx panasonic ir?
10:22 Tom_itx they're shorter range
10:33 LiohAu deshipu: it's a 1D lidar so?
10:33 LiohAu (comparing to the RPLidar which is 2D for instance)
20:13 anonnumberanon I have a 19 steps epic list of things to do now to get my robot going.
20:13 anonnumberanon (and learn a heck ton of stuff)
20:13 adam789654123 hey anonnumberanon
20:13 adam789654123 :)
20:13 anonnumberanon sup
20:13 adam789654123 programming
20:13 adam789654123 with a bit of the chat mixed in
20:14 adam789654123 to spice things up
20:14 adam789654123 :)
20:14 anonnumberanon cool
20:14 adam789654123 what are the 19 steps?
20:14 anonnumberanon my desk is overflowing with wires
20:14 adam789654123 haha
20:14 adam789654123 awsome!
20:15 anonnumberanon The list: https://ideone.com/7z409d
20:15 adam789654123 hmmm... terminal mode, lets see if this works
20:16 adam789654123 yup!
20:16 anonnumberanon what terminal browser are you using?
20:16 anonnumberanon lynx?
20:17 adam789654123 yeah.... linux
20:17 adam789654123 i think maybe you should enlist the help of Nasa
20:17 adam789654123 looks awsome!
20:17 adam789654123 :D
20:20 anonnumberanon I'll be on this for days.
20:20 anonnumberanon Actually I see the end of it about Sunday, working all day everyday.
20:21 adam789654123 impressive that you have organized yourself thus
20:21 adam789654123 that would be a massive project for me
20:22 adam789654123 but i need to have a better grasp of eletronics and classical mechanics anyway
20:23 anonnumberanon I've done almost all of this before in a way, only not the nrf24l01 modules hook up which is for wireless communication. Also the programming part of libraries and all that, I need to work on that a lot it will be the hardest part.
20:23 adam789654123 c, or maybe basic stamp?
20:23 adam789654123 that can be hard for just about anyone i think
20:24 adam789654123 depending on what you are doing, i guess
20:24 adam789654123 but ive had to hunt down libraries and use them in the past
20:24 adam789654123 and it wasnt easy
20:24 rue_house standalone avr development board <-- arduino, cheap, done.
20:24 adam789654123 haha
20:24 adam789654123 this was using the arduino
20:25 adam789654123 but it was my first exploration into working with microcontrollers
20:25 anonnumberanon it will be in C of course yes but the organizing libraries and large programming projects for the full and intelligent interfacing between a microcontroller and a chip (nrf24 and accelerometers) is difficult. I barely got the accelerometer code running on my quadcopter, by luck. Now I will go in depth.
20:25 rue_house whats a nrf24l01?
20:25 rue_house yea, but you can use an arduino raw, as just an avr
20:25 adam789654123 yeah.... i have a vague recollection of such
20:25 rue_house get around all the badly written libraries and bloatlibraries
20:26 anonnumberanon rue_house, yes that's the plan, although I want to have a standalone just to be able to check it on my "has done this" list.
20:26 rue_house just get an arduino that has a isp header, most do
20:26 adam789654123 rue_house: i would *love* to be able to code raw to interact to do signalling
20:26 adam789654123 but i just dont know how
20:26 rue_house ... you just do
20:26 rue_house have an arduino board?
20:26 adam789654123 yeah
20:26 rue_house k
20:26 anonnumberanon In front of me I have an Uno with ISP, two atmega 328 DIP chips, a breadboard, a serial cable and everything I need. It starts now.
20:27 rue_house have an isp programmer?
20:27 anonnumberanon :)
20:27 adam789654123 well, the programmer was something for linux
20:27 rue_house I suggest toms, but there are lots of options
20:27 rue_house the hardware isp programmer
20:27 adam789654123 i wanted to work from emacs, so i just uploaded the code the the board
20:28 rue_house there are parallel port programmers
20:28 rue_house I even ported a parallel port programmer to work on a pata port
20:28 adam789654123 that gets beyond me
20:28 anonnumberanon an nrf24l01 is a cheap wireless chip that connects to another one and sends stuff to a distance of about 100m without a dedicated antenna
20:28 rue_house anonnumberanon, ah
20:29 rue_house adam789654123, to raw program you need an isp programmer
20:29 anonnumberanon i.e, diy remote control
20:29 adam789654123 oh
20:29 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/programmer/avrprog.html
20:29 adam789654123 the board was like, arduino basic or something
20:29 rue_house thats my old page
20:29 adam789654123 or unu
20:29 rue_house you CAN make one out of an extra arduino
20:29 adam789654123 that sound familiar?
20:30 adam789654123 ill have a look
20:30 rue_house http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/avr/programmer/avrprog.pdf
20:30 rue_house thats the right link for the schematic in the page
20:30 adam789654123 gotta get get a windowing mgr intalled on my system
20:30 adam789654123 im thinking about going with the smallest window manager
20:31 adam789654123 some snippit that runs in c with like, a page of code
20:31 rue_house apt-get install xinit
20:31 adam789654123 im not using apt
20:31 adam789654123 pacman
20:31 rue_house hmm that explains why its been so long
20:31 adam789654123 haha
20:31 adam789654123 i actually have to *work* for it
20:32 rue_house yea, I went from slakware to debian
20:32 anonnumberanon some "grunt work" is unproductive...
20:32 adam789654123 well... my issue is that with the rolling releases, i want to keep the WM as slick down as possible
20:32 adam789654123 i dont want to rely on it too heavily
20:33 rue_house my only greevences about debian are how far behind all the packages are and how closed up they are about adding new software to the repository
20:33 adam789654123 because that seems to get me in trouble
20:33 rue_house your typing to a guy who currently has 18 xterm windows up
20:33 adam789654123 the thing i love about arch is that it starts as sort of a blank slate linux
20:33 adam789654123 haha
20:33 adam789654123 awsome
20:33 rue_house gui's are terrible at most things
20:34 adam789654123 i like that minimalst approach
20:34 adam789654123 and im finding with emacs, i really only require the gui infrequently
20:34 anonnumberanon adam789654123, you would love a microcontroller
20:34 adam789654123 and my computer is so much faster
20:34 rue_house / is only a 6G partition
20:34 adam789654123 haha
20:34 rue_house everything else is on other filesystems
20:35 adam789654123 i have two hard-drives
20:35 rue_house 200G mirrored raid for data, bla bla bla
20:35 adam789654123 i think a 20gb and a 40gb
20:35 adam789654123 very old stuff
20:35 adam789654123 haha
20:35 adam789654123 im just glad this thing works
20:35 rue_house er, this one is 500G now?
20:35 rue_house hmm
20:35 adam789654123 actually, i think i have about 100gb on the second HD
20:36 adam789654123 and like, 20GB on the first
20:36 rue_house md0 : active raid1 sdc2[0] sdb2[1]
20:36 rue_house 955777982 blocks super 1.2 [2/2] [UU]
20:36 rue_house oh
20:36 adam789654123 im gonna try to pull up this windowing system
20:36 adam789654123 brb
20:36 rue_house guess I dont remmeber that last upgrade
20:36 anonnumberanon rue_house, what is raid for, redundancey? same content on both drives?\
20:36 rue_house magnetic drives ALWAYS fail, so make it not matter
20:37 rue_house its mirrored raid, so yea, if one drive dies it just uses the other,
20:37 rue_house I put in a repalcement and it rebuilds
20:37 rue_house no downtime or recovery
20:37 adam789654123 "TinyWM. It's only 50 lines of code or something like that."
20:37 rue_house maybe you should just use ratpoison
20:38 adam789654123 http://incise.org/tinywm.html
20:38 adam789654123 "TinyWM is a tiny window manager that I created as an exercise in minimalism. It is also maybe helpful in learning some of the very basics of creating a window
20:38 adam789654123 manager. It is only around 50 lines of C. There is also a Python version using python-xlib."
20:38 adam789654123
20:38 adam789654123 im interested in the common lisp window managers also
20:38 adam789654123 like stumpwm and clfswm
20:38 adam789654123 but i want to try to do as small as footprint as possible
20:39 adam789654123 i just figure it would be easier to maintain
20:41 adam789654123 i really just need something to look at pdfs and watch videos
20:41 rue_house falling asleep
20:41 adam789654123 haha
20:41 adam789654123 gnight
20:41 adam789654123 zzzZZzzZZzzZzz...
22:33 anonnumberanon I don't think so but does it make a difference putting a current limiting resistor after a load (LED in my case) or before it?
23:05 Hyratel1 anonnumberanon, no
23:06 anonnumberanon Hyratel1, thanks
23:07 Hyratel1 the resistor will drop the same voltage either way
23:21 anonnumberanon I burned the Arduino bootloader to a bare chip. heh
23:28 anonnumberanon it works
23:36 rue_house YOUR GOING THE WRONG WAY
23:37 rue_house anonnumberanon, want to know how to make a C program and get it going ont here?
23:46 anonnumberanon rue_house, that is step 13 of my plan :)
23:47 anonnumberanon before i want to be hand held and use the Arduino libs and toolchain because otherwise programming will get in the way of my build