#robotics Logs

Nov 01 2015

00:05 zhanx Lynx motion makes a servo controller that takes serial input fyi
00:25 Eziodjinn Thanks zhanx, I was looking for their site but couldn't remember it.
00:25 zhanx No problem
01:43 anonnumberanon does that sc32 lynxmotion regulate the power coming into the board though?
01:43 zhanx Mine did
01:44 zhanx I supplied 7.2v too it
01:44 anonnumberanon you mean 7.4?
01:44 anonnumberanon from a lipo?
01:44 zhanx No 7.2v rc car lipo
01:45 anonnumberanon ah, what was the required voltage of the servos?
01:45 zhanx 5v
01:45 anonnumberanon that's magic
04:23 deshipu depends on the servos, usually from 4.7 to 6V
04:25 deshipu I have some 3.7V servos too
13:10 adam789654123 superlou: i came up with a simple idea for a device that *might* work as a low noise electronic balancing device
13:11 adam789654123 the fundamental principal might be obvious if you consider a small electronic scale
13:12 adam789654123 maybe better to consider it the transducer of a "balancing information feedback system"
13:31 adam789654123 anonnumberanon: also to you, who wants to make a standing robot
13:32 anonnumberanon adam789654123, so what is it?
13:32 adam789654123 what i wrote previously to superlou
13:32 adam789654123 i had another idea also
13:32 adam789654123 but it seems very technical
13:32 adam789654123 a sphere filled with insulating liquid and a conducting gas
13:33 adam789654123 the conducting gas can jump leads to grounds
13:34 adam789654123 im thinking if you want to make a self balancing device, that fundamental to the calculation is the patter of information from the transducers.
13:34 adam789654123 *pattern of information...
13:34 adam789654123 that you want to create the feedback system with
13:35 adam789654123 anonnumberanon: if im just blathering ill shut up
13:35 adam789654123 :P
13:37 anonnumberanon adam789654123, so make a prototype ;)
13:37 adam789654123 haha
13:37 adam789654123 maybe a few years from now
13:37 anonnumberanon Who knows you might have discovered something.
13:37 adam789654123 if i build up enough knowledge and motivation
13:38 anonnumberanon Well what else can you do that would be more interesting?
13:38 anonnumberanon (to get motivation)
13:38 am789654123 wants to make a joke here
13:38 adam789654123 well.. i have resources i want to study
13:38 anonnumberanon Jokes are off-topic here.
13:39 am789654123 thought jokes where always on t
13:39 anonnumberanon Let me finish writing my program, man.
13:39 am789654123 thought there was a direct relationship to genius and sense of h
13:40 adam789654123 ok
13:40 adam789654123 sorry
13:40 adam789654123 :)
14:29 maiden hello, any one have a link on a good survey or other paper on biped/humanoid walk?
14:30 deshipu maiden: what do you mean? this is a huge subject
14:30 ace4016 survey...
14:31 maiden indeed it is, i am trying to build a low cost biped/legs for a future humanoid robot.
14:31 ace4016 so what are you looking for exactly?
14:32 maiden clever ways of mechanical and software control for balance and walk.
14:32 ace4016 there's a few things out there
14:32 maiden i want to out-source as much as possible to hardware, but not this much: http://www.idt.mdh.se/rc/page_id1/dasher
14:32 deshipu Bob? http://www.robotrebels.org/index.php?topic=23.0
14:33 maiden i still want to have some control and be able to walk stairs
14:33 ace4016 one of the coolest i've seen was using the leg passive dynamics to get a robot to walk
14:33 maiden this is going to be a 1:1 humanoid, servo control is out of the question, because that is what every one else does :p
14:33 maiden i am going with servos or brushless+encoders
14:33 ace4016 add some motor contorl and they got a walking robot that walks for the same amount of energy as a human takes to walk
14:34 maiden *steppers not servos
14:34 superlou adam789654123, sorry was away from keyboard. Aren't most conducting gases fairly corrosive?
14:34 maiden ace4016: like this http://ruina.tam.cornell.edu/research/topics/locomotion_and_robotics/ranger/Ranger2011/
14:35 deshipu maiden: I would really suggest you to start with small robots first, before you embark on building something that large
14:35 maiden i will probably build something closer to this: https://www.unirel.vt.edu/CHARLI.html
14:35 superlou adam789654123, and still have the problem with the momentum of the fluid
14:36 maiden deshipu, i have been there done that, have a MS in robotics :p
14:36 ace4016 maiden, nay
14:36 ace4016 this one: https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/shc17/Robot/Robot_walkingVideos.htm
14:37 ace4016 the leg swings are a controlled fall
14:37 deshipu maiden: a biped too?
14:37 maiden thats it, have seen it before, the challenge will be to make it be able to switch between mechanics and motor control ;)
14:38 superlou bipeds are a nightmare :)
14:38 maiden deshipu: yes, with servos!
14:39 maiden superlou, thats why you got ROS & Gazebo :p but i have no illusion of that something simulated will work well IRL
14:39 superlou fair enough
14:39 superlou I can't even work out the IK for my stationary robot
14:40 maiden i would like to try out to add lots of gyros and accelerometers in each limb and have a "center of mass" calculated so i always keep track of all the forces in action, of cause it will be a sensorfusion hell with lots of noise.
14:41 superlou maiden, if you are using fairly precise servos, you can model the dynamics of the robot based on expect joint positin
14:41 maiden and the hardware cant be to stiff or i must have good accelerometer parameters in SW
14:42 maiden superlou, but the cost of those servos are to big!
14:43 maiden this is a hobby project, but with a more scientific touch then most :p
14:43 maiden i have a very limited budget.
14:43 superlou maiden, most servos are fine. you may need to calibrate their input vs. angle for each, but they're pretty reliable after that if they aren't over torqued
14:44 superlou remember that accelerometers/gyros don't give you an absolute position data
14:44 maiden superlou, i know, i work with them every day :p
14:44 superlou ah, cool
14:47 maiden what i would consider a success is a ~1.7 - 2m tall robot that can take 5-10 "normal" steps before falling over ;)
14:47 maiden unlike those small servo driven humanoids that more or less vibrate to move forward
14:48 maiden so a bigger version of this with electronics https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/shc17/Robot/Robot_walkingVideos.htm
14:49 superlou maiden, self powered, or umbilical ok?
14:50 maiden self powered would be best, but will not start with that,
14:51 maiden will start with attaching a "hip" to the wall and then building a leg and testing out different solutions for moving the legs until i can get smooth movements in the patterns i want.
14:52 maiden then i will have to test the strength/stability, then when i got something i believe in i will build another leg, and "mid" section, then make it work together.
14:52 maiden but i do not believe i will come that far before next summer ;)
14:53 maiden and i will have to add something for arms/balance as well
14:55 superlou sounds fun
14:55 superlou i'm still concerned about integrating accelerometer/gyro data to estimate state for the body parts
14:55 maiden Will go to Hong Kong, Shenzhen next week, hopefully i will find something fun that i can use in the project.
14:55 superlou are all the joints 1 dof?
14:56 maiden not the ankle or waist
14:56 maiden only the knee
14:56 maiden ankle 2dof, knee 1dof, hip 2dof
15:00 maiden superlou, i think you are right, it will be much more accurate to calculate the theoretical force/momentum of all bodyparts, but you can use the sensor values to verify your calculations or detect unexpected events
15:00 superlou maiden, if your first goal is to only take a few steps, I would focus on making the frame rigid as possible and avoid too much sensor fusion for the joints that are predictable
15:01 superlou the 2 dof joints are trickier, especially since they are based on interaction with the ground
15:01 superlou sounds like you have a good idea of what you want to do, though
15:02 maiden superlou, yes but i think others have done the same work before, but i have not found any good papers on the subject, but to be honest i have not searched that much yet.
15:02 anonnumberanon <maiden> deshipu: yes, with servos!
15:02 anonnumberanon ah cool i am building one right now, do you have documentation on yours?
15:03 maiden so what i actually want, is "force estimates of humanoid/biped in motion"
15:04 superlou maiden, if you just want order of magnitude, you can do some simple mechanics and dynamics to estimate them
15:05 superlou for eample, torque required to swing a leg upward at a certain acceleration/velocity
15:05 superlou or force of impact of a foot depending on it's speed, mass, and compression
15:07 onnumberanon 's biped is sleeping right
15:07 maiden I have been following RoboCup for a few years and the DARPA Robotics Challange, and i want to try something that walks better. I am only going to focus on walking, its hard as hell, bet otherwise it would not be worth doing ;)
15:09 anonnumberanon maiden, my research has led me to the conclusion that to remain motivated in the biped project I need to make it ready for some type of challenge, I chose Robo-One.
15:10 anonnumberanon Seems to be actually the only fighting competition for robots too (and not i don't call Battlebots' machines robots.
15:10 superlou you could make a battlebots robots league if they were autonomous
15:12 anonnumberanon I'm looking for people to challenge in the U.S. Because Robo-One is in Asia that's far. At Robogames they have mech warfare though, but I'm not sure if there is a lot of kung-fu there.
15:13 anonnumberanon Ideally I would want to fight a Nao. That would be sick. Destroy the thing.
15:14 anonnumberanon $300 robot vs $5000 robot
15:14 maiden this sounds correct :D https://staff.aist.go.jp/kensuke.harada/papers/2007-TMECH-12-1(HKKFKYH).pdf
15:15 adam789654123 <superlou> adam789654123, sorry was away from keyboard. Aren't most
15:15 adam789654123 conducting gases fairly corrosive? [15:10]
15:15 adam789654123 i dont know, thats interesting
15:16 adam789654123 <superlou> adam789654123, and still have the problem with the momentum of the
15:16 adam789654123 fluid [15:11]
15:16 maiden this is even better "This paper presents a model-based method, called
15:16 maiden Dynamic Balance Force Control (DBFC), for determining
15:16 maiden full body joint torques based on desired COM motion and
15:16 maiden contact forces for compliant humanoid robots."
15:16 adam789654123 it seemed like the momentum was contained a bit, or that the oscilations would settle quickly
15:16 maiden ops, sorry for the spam
15:16 superlou adam789654123, also, typically you have to ionize a gas to make it conductive, which um, is a plasma
15:16 adam789654123 maiden: ?
15:17 adam789654123 really
15:17 adam789654123 i didnt look up conductive gases
15:17 adam789654123 i did see insulating fluids though
15:17 adam789654123 i guess oil
15:19 adam789654123 im seeing what you said about plasma on http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/38631/can-gases-conduct-electricity
15:19 adam789654123 In a gas, these electrons are too dispersed to provided any measurable current.
15:19 adam789654123 ok
15:19 adam789654123 another idea
15:20 adam789654123 oil and water
15:20 adam789654123 or some such
15:20 maiden now we are talking "A Six-axis Force Sensor with Parallel Support Mechanism to Measure the Ground Reaction Force of Humanoid Robot"
15:20 adam789654123 superlou: an insulating and a non-insulating fluid
15:20 superlou yeah, their are conductive fliuds
15:20 adam789654123 bbl, back to ripping roof off of shed
15:20 adam789654123 :)
15:20 superlou like saltwater
15:20 adam789654123 yeah
15:21 adam789654123 ill have to think on it more
15:21 adam789654123 the solution might just be to invert the readings
15:22 adam789654123 if the gas is the insulator, just make the non-voltage lines the place of the bubble
15:22 adam789654123 so maybe something like saltwater with an air bubble
15:22 superlou i'm still not super convinced why you want to make a macro scale inclinometer?
15:22 adam789654123 well.... i wanted to think about it aparently, anyway
15:22 adam789654123 :P
15:22 superlou fair
15:22 adam789654123 bb in a bit
15:22 adam789654123 thanks you
15:22 adam789654123 :D
15:24 maiden any one more then me familiar with KHR-2?
15:24 maiden i just found this: http://users.dimi.uniud.it/~antonio.dangelo/Robotica/2012/helper/10.1.1.153.4069.pdf
15:24 maiden google scholar ftw <3
15:32 anonnumberanon maiden, but does that robot actually exist?
15:32 maiden anonnumberanon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=828MoRnDUL4
15:33 veverak guys
15:33 veverak what is proper english term
15:34 veverak for "gear" on which you attach something on RC Servo
15:34 veverak I mean that little thing with many teeths pointing out of servo
15:34 superlou "pinion"
15:34 superlou a "pinion gear"
15:35 veverak thanks
15:35 anonnumberanon or servo horn pinion
15:35 anonnumberanon lol
15:38 anonnumberanon maiden, yeah you may get the opportunity to work with those types of parts (the ones on that robot) if you are successful with a smaller design that you can actually build first.
15:38 anonnumberanon Get to work.
15:42 maiden anonnumberanon, actually started last year, but what i made looks fugly so i wont show it, but then i got another child, so with two small ones... i have had to focus on other things.. like diapers..
15:50 rue_shop3 I'm making code to recieve codes from an old remote control, its kinda fun
15:52 rue_shop3 what button should be used to trigger setting the clock? up, down, mute, Vup, Vdown, on/off ?
15:52 rue_shop3 I'm leaning to on/off
15:52 adam789654123 hey rue_shop3
15:52 adam789654123 just sitting down for a few minutes to eat
15:52 adam789654123 while im working
15:52 adam789654123 cool
15:53 adam789654123 what else do you want to do with the remote?
15:57 deshipu veverak: got the keyboard to work!
15:58 veverak awesome!
15:58 veverak pics?
15:58 deshipu https://hackaday.io/project/8282-alpen-clack
15:58 deshipu still needs a case
16:03 rue_shop3 I just stared cooking food, cool
16:04 rue_shop3 I'm using it for setting the clock I made
16:04 rue_shop3 cause I only have 1 port left
16:05 rue_shop3 thats an old keyboard, why did you have to rematrix it?
16:07 rue_shop3 the switch was for AT/XT keyboard codes
16:10 adam789654123 are you using something like an arduino rue_shop3?
16:10 rue_shop3 I use arduino board, because they are cheaper than the avrs on them
16:10 rue_shop3 boards...
16:11 rue_shop3 actually, I need to find some more dip mega32's for the bigger projects
16:11 rue_shop3 apparently I'v used up all of them
16:13 deshipu rue_shop3: I wanted a tenkeyless layout, and an usb keyboard with n-key rollover
16:13 rue_shop3 read that, looks ok so far, but I'm sure you could have redone the pcb
16:13 rue_shop3 might not have helped much
16:13 adam789654123 cool... what kind of firmware and hardware pairings where important to the design?
16:14 deshipu rue_shop3: and the pcb was a single-layer mess of traces, I didn't feel like figuring out which ones go where to cut off the numpad part
16:14 rue_shop3 A+ for using the diodes
16:14 rue_shop3 adam789654123, for my clock?
16:14 adam789654123 yeah
16:14 deshipu rue_shop3: well, redoing the pcb would have been expensive and would take long
16:14 rue_shop3 na it might have just needed a few jumpers
16:14 rue_shop3 + a PS2 ->usb converter :)
16:14 e_shop3 sh
16:15 deshipu I considered the converter -- I even have the code for it already
16:15 rue_shop3 but,,, you can buy them on ebay for like $1
16:15 rue_shop3 ?
16:15 deshipu those are the usb→ps2
16:15 rue_shop3 did that one have diodes in it before?
16:16 deshipu yes, it had n-key rollover too
16:16 deshipu it was a good keyboard
16:16 rue_shop3 must have been an old one all right
16:16 rue_shop3 the model M's use capacitive, I didn't know that and tore one apart
16:16 rue_shop3 :S
16:16 rue_shop3 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-USB-Male-to-PS2-Female-Cable-Adapter-Converter-Use-For-Keyboard-Mouse-/161770441087?hash=item25aa45097f:g:QPMAAOSw0HVWAgtr
16:17 deshipu I regret nothing :P
16:17 rue_shop3 the old large connector is the same protocol as ps2
16:17 adam789654123 i dont mean to interupt. yall chat away. its just that i remember when i worked with the arduino, i needed to mess aroung changing its firmware to appear as either an arduino or a keyboard
16:17 deshipu it was fun and I learned a lot
16:17 adam789654123 but im off anyway
16:17 adam789654123 :)
16:17 rue_shop3 just thinking out loud, you did great!
16:17 adam789654123 i only
16:17 adam789654123 had one port btw
16:17 adam789654123 one of the cheapest arduinos
16:17 adam789654123 bbl
16:18 rue_shop3 I have to work out how to use the remote to set the clock
16:18 deshipu adam789654123: yeah, I'm using an avr with build-in usb support
16:18 deshipu rue_shop3: do you set the clock so often?
16:18 adam789654123 when i found out about the firmware thing, i was sort of blown away
16:18 adam789654123 like.......ohhhhhhhh!!!!!! thats how you do this
16:19 rue_shop3 I dont, but I dont want to have to reflash the firmware to set it
16:19 adam789654123 yeah
16:19 adam789654123 it was a real pain
16:19 adam789654123 i would never want to do it in development
16:19 adam789654123 but its what i had
16:19 adam789654123 anyway, seriously got a go.... under pressure, bbl
16:19 adam789654123 :)
16:21 deshipu I wonder if I should keep the board's reset button, so that I can reprogram the keyboard easily when needed
16:21 deshipu I could put it somewhere in the back
16:24 adam789654123 rue_shop3: while you're at it, how about a stopwatch and a countdown timer as features accessible from the remote?
16:24 adam789654123 i just HAD to throw that in, because it would be awsome!
16:24 adam789654123 anyway, im in trouble
16:24 adam789654123 :)
16:24 adam789654123 cya
16:26 deshipu rue_shop3: come to think of it, tv remote is probably the cheapest way to add buttons to a project
16:26 rue_shop3 1 io line
16:32 veverak deshipu: "s = Servo.autofill("G90") "
16:32 veverak generates servo object for me from yaml database
16:32 verak finally feels satis
16:41 deshipu hehe
17:15 deshipu rue_shop3: ah, one more reason for re-wiring -- I added the "super" keys
17:15 rue_shop3 admit it, they are just windows keys
17:15 deshipu no windows here :P
17:15 rue_shop3 microsoft bought you.
17:16 rue_shop3 :)
17:16 deshipu I use them to move and resize the windows
17:16 deshipu so you could say it's the windows key
17:16 deshipu also, got media keys under tab+pgup, tab+pgdn, etc.
17:17 rue_shop3 ever had code do something thats not even close to what it should?
17:17 deshipu rue_shop3: all the time
17:17 deshipu rue_shop3: once my robot tore its own legs off
17:18 deshipu slowly rotated each of them so they were under its body, and then raised them
17:18 veverak hmm
17:19 veverak finally installed my lamp
17:19 veverak too strong
17:19 deshipu veverak: don't feed it for a week
17:19 veverak (230V lamp with on/off button and LED bulb)
17:19 veverak deshipu: come on
17:19 verak doesn't like to hurt ani
17:20 deshipu I like animals how they should be, cooked and with sauce
17:20 deshipu and a side of meat
17:20 veverak :D
17:20 deshipu tartar counts as a salad, right?
17:21 veverak and if it doesn't, does it change anything?
17:21 veverak :)
18:24 anonnumberanon The good thing about robots is that we can make them look like animals and hurt them.
18:24 anonnumberanon Granted, in my case i like to hurt them to know how to make them stronger..
18:43 rue_shop3 the solinoid on the starter is stuck..
18:45 Tom_itx get another
18:45 rue_shop3 hahah got it, ok the main loop was repeatedly clearing the 'ir data ready' flag
18:45 rue_shop3 so ir data was never ready
20:21 norias hey, look, a robotics chan
20:21 norias how fun
20:35 Eziodjinn not very talkative though
20:42 norias eh
20:44 adam789654123 what are yall into Eziodjinn and norias?
20:44 norias hmm, well
20:44 norias i'm mostly here to get in to chatting about robots
20:45 adam789654123 well.... chat away
20:45 adam789654123 :P
20:45 adam789654123 ;)
20:46 adam789654123 what interests you about robots?
20:46 norias hah
20:46 norias mostly looking to learn
20:47 norias I took a job in the robotics field
20:47 norias so
20:47 adam789654123 note that we only talk about psycho robots here
20:47 norias i'm trying to learn what it's all about
20:47 adam789654123 ok
20:47 adam789654123 cool
20:47 adam789654123 stick around then
20:47 adam789654123 people chat about all kinds of robotics stuff here
20:47 norias i plan on it
20:47 norias i'm the machinist
20:48 adam789654123 its one of my regular channels
20:48 norias i've machined a bunch of things
20:48 norias but robots are a new thing for me
20:48 adam789654123 yeah
20:48 adam789654123 afraid i have no expertise to share with you myself
20:48 adam789654123 but there are knowlegable people that frequent
20:48 norias its all good
20:48 adam789654123 :)
20:49 norias so far my impression is that the best robots
20:49 norias don't do exciting things
20:49 norias they do boring, dangerous things
20:49 norias which seems to make sense
20:49 adam789654123 well.... im split with that
20:49 adam789654123 but my idea of exciting might be a bit unique
20:50 adam789654123 for me simple can be exiciting
20:50 adam789654123 there are some humanoid robot enthusiasts that frequent
20:50 adam789654123 humaniod type robots
20:51 adam789654123 sort of like integrated navigating thinking machines that can do stuff
20:51 adam789654123 im a bit more conservative in my aspirations
20:51 norias which are?
20:52 adam789654123 i guess with robotics, a good start is classical mechanics, electronics, and mechanical processes
20:52 norias yeah
20:53 adam789654123 mostly probably pretty tame stuff for a robotics channel
20:55 norias eh, folks i work with do mostly tractors and mining equipment
20:56 adam789654123 cool
20:56 adam789654123 what do you think of the work?
20:58 norias so far, so good
20:58 norias difficult parts to machine
20:58 norias but, i like a challeng
20:58 norias e
20:58 adam789654123 yeah
20:58 norias i'd like to learn enough from these folks
20:58 adam789654123 i was and am very interesting in the machinest feild
20:58 norias to apply robotics to my machining
20:59 norias the machines in our shop have probing, etc
20:59 adam789654123 in time.... :) you will
20:59 norias so, i'd like to get in to unattended machining
21:00 adam789654123 but one of the issues that I saw (seemingly) was that there didnt seem to be enough pay for the amount of schooling required
21:00 adam789654123 but i guess it depends on where you live
21:00 adam789654123 and the oportunities available to you
21:00 adam789654123 for whatever the reasons
21:00 norias yeah, hmm, dunno
21:01 norias you mean in machining?
21:01 adam789654123 yeah
21:01 norias oh, hmm
21:01 norias it's a toss up
21:01 norias i have some specific feelings on that
21:01 adam789654123 is machining different than machinest?
21:01 norias the range of pay is huge
21:01 norias but so is the range of skill
21:01 adam789654123 i think i see
21:02 norias some folks only do CNC
21:02 norias some only do manual
21:02 adam789654123 yeah.... it seems like it could take alot of experience to work ones way around
21:02 norias eh. pay is largely based on the industry, really
21:02 adam789654123 yeah
21:02 adam789654123 ok
21:02 norias i mean, i get bummed about the pay in the field
21:03 norias i make... decent money
21:03 adam789654123 yeah... that was kind of the tradeoff
21:03 norias i'll probably make $60k this year without overtime
21:03 adam789654123 but the work seemed interesting enough that it could still be worth it
21:03 norias likely 70-75 with overtime
21:03 adam789654123 being broke, that sounds like a fortune
21:03 adam789654123 of course, results will vary
21:03 norias yeah, i'm not going to lie
21:03 norias i do well
21:04 adam789654123 great
21:04 norias starting wages are more like $25k
21:04 norias some folks only get to about $40k
21:04 norias because they stay at one shop, and don't apply themselves
21:04 norias so, roughly... there's CNC and manual machining
21:04 norias there's tool and die
21:04 norias and there are CNC programmers
21:05 norias and one of the reasons i can make decent money
21:05 norias is i've done some of all of the above
21:05 norias i can walk in to most machine shops and start getting stuff done
21:06 adam789654123 yeah
21:06 adam789654123 thats great
21:06 norias i've even programmed multi-axis high productivity lathes
21:06 norias but that's because i study like all hell
21:06 norias so, wages suck
21:06 adam789654123 well... you should have no problems picking stuff up from this channel then
21:06 norias but, if you really try you can do well
21:06 adam789654123 i see
21:07 norias like, i can work entirely alone
21:07 adam789654123 it depends on your level of motivation (and probably talent also)
21:07 norias order materials, work with customers, program the machines
21:07 norias do manual work
21:07 norias technically, my title is machine shop foreman
21:07 norias which is a working manager
21:08 adam789654123 great
21:08 adam789654123 :D
21:08 norias but my point is
21:08 adam789654123 im the working floorman
21:08 norias i've known a lot of people in my field that just do it as a job
21:08 adam789654123 :P
21:08 norias don't try to get better
21:08 norias so.. they dont get paid better
21:09 adam789654123 well... it sounds like an interesting feild anyway
21:09 adam789654123 its an interesting story you bring to the table concerning it
21:09 adam789654123 gives me something else to consider
21:10 norias where are you located?
21:10 adam789654123 PA
21:10 adam789654123 something that caught my eye in a big way within the last year is Mechtronics
21:10 adam789654123 you might really be interested in that
21:11 adam789654123 it sounds right up your alley actually
21:11 norias what part of PA?
21:12 adam789654123 where the hell am i?
21:12 adam789654123 by Reading
21:12 adam789654123 seems sorta rural out here
21:12 norias hmm, move to philly
21:13 adam789654123 haha
21:13 norias lots of machine shops there
21:13 adam789654123 no thank you
21:13 adam789654123 :P
21:13 norias i'm in pittsburgh
21:13 adam789654123 maybe in the winters move to philly?
21:13 adam789654123 not spending my summers there
21:13 norias no?
21:13 adam789654123 much better to spend summer in the country
21:13 norias i'm not a fan of the city
21:13 norias but, there's alot of work
21:13 norias so, eh
21:13 adam789654123 i hear ya
21:13 adam789654123 that would be my motivation
21:14 norias i live about 30 minutes outside of pittsburgh
21:14 norias i'm a country boy, really
21:14 adam789654123 but then i would want to move around alot i think
21:14 norias but i've lived in the city, it's nice enough
21:14 adam789654123 i dont mind visiting
21:14 adam789654123 like NYC or something
21:14 adam789654123 but i dont want to live in Philly
21:15 adam789654123 *maybe* during the winter
21:15 adam789654123 if i was *really* motivated
21:15 adam789654123 thats why i think i would have to move from place to place alot
21:16 adam789654123 because i dont want to live in the city year round
21:16 adam789654123 but i wouldnt mind spending time periods there
21:16 adam789654123 but that seems to imply a different kind of work than the typical employee
21:16 adam789654123 as i understand it
21:16 adam789654123 unless maybe someone can give me some good news that i am unaware of
21:16 adam789654123 :D
21:20 adam789654123 norias: where you at?
21:20 adam789654123 ohhh
21:20 adam789654123 sorry
21:20 adam789654123 ic
21:20 norias heh
21:21 adam789654123 you're out of pittzburgh
21:21 adam789654123 but that seems to sum it up i guess, that you sort of have to work in the city to get your hands on certain kinds of work
21:22 norias yeah
21:22 norias lots of shops
21:22 adam789654123 what are the prospects, do you think, of changing shops frequently?
21:23 adam789654123 say once a year on so?
21:23 norias i'd say go every 2-4 years
21:23 adam789654123 when is it the busiest?
21:23 adam789654123 in the summer?
21:23 norias summer
21:23 adam789654123 hmmmm......
21:24 adam789654123 it just seems like the cards dont want to line up on that one
21:24 adam789654123 seems like a good timeframe though, even say for working in construction
21:25 adam789654123 if you get a decent construction job that is
21:25 norias yeah
21:26 norias it's 10pm
21:26 adam789654123 bedtime?
21:26 norias and i already feel totally exhausted
21:26 adam789654123 haha
21:26 adam789654123 ok
21:26 adam789654123 have a great night sleep
21:26 adam789654123 great to meet you
21:26 norias i'm go to stay up a little longer
21:26 adam789654123 :D
21:26 norias and keep researching
21:26 norias i'm just sayin
21:26 adam789654123 ok
21:26 norias i feel old now
21:26 norias heh
21:26 adam789654123 yeah
21:26 adam789654123 i am old now, so... :P
21:26 adam789654123 old enough anyhoo....