#robotics Logs

Aug 13 2015

06:42 theBear just conceptually, broad strokes style
07:07 SpeedEvil theBear: The torques don't sum to zero
07:11 eBear considers this sent
07:11 theBear oh, you mean it'll need a tail rotor like a helichopter
07:11 SpeedEvil yes
07:11 theBear figured there had to be a reason
07:11 SpeedEvil 'yes' has some caveats
07:11 SpeedEvil and sometimes you can avoid it
07:12 SpeedEvil but not with three similar propellors in a triange
07:12 SpeedEvil (A triange is like an orange, but pyrimidial)
07:35 theBear yeah, i get the basic idea... 4 just works out easy, you can cancel i dunno, maybe as much as half the math without using paper
07:35 SpeedEvil theBear: have you seen that wierd harmonic excited swashplate
07:35 theBear umm, i dunno what a swashplate is
07:35 theBear some pirate thing ?
07:35 theBear half of a swashbuckle ?
07:35 SpeedEvil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEPf0QHVuMM&list=FLBGlboO77mQ_IveRSyp9qpA&index=22
07:36 SpeedEvil The swashplate is the complex thing that is on top of the helicopter that makes you die if it breaks
07:36 theBear i've racked it up, just gotta run up to the shops before they close real quick
07:36 theBear oh, the universal joint and a half whatsit ?
07:37 theBear c'mon brain, you can get out the door in 5 mins, i know you can do it ! but you might need help, so if you'll excuse me, i'll likely be right back
07:37 theBear and if you won't, well, eff-you buddy :)
07:41 Jak_o_Shadows Oh yeah, I think I saw tht quite a time ago. Pretty cool
07:42 SpeedEvil I think you can do it with one motor and a couple of large crossed aerofoils
07:42 Jak_o_Shadows What do you mean large crossed aerofoilss?
07:51 SpeedEvil Take two sheets of A4 card.
07:51 SpeedEvil Make them into a + sign
07:51 SpeedEvil place under rotor
10:36 anon6451 hi guys. how a robot can do something similar to tie a knot using a rope?
10:36 deshipu anon6451: with great difficulty
10:36 SpeedEvil anon6451: it's a bad question, in general
10:37 SpeedEvil what specific task are you trying to do
10:37 anon6451 use a rope for construction by robot. to tie sticks together
10:37 SpeedEvil the basic answer is tha tprocesses and simple robots can be designed to do almost anything
10:37 SpeedEvil Ropes and sticks for construction are almost never used.
10:38 SpeedEvil At least in western architecture.
10:38 deshipu glues is probably the easiest
10:38 SpeedEvil Glues, bolts, screws, nails, welding
10:38 deshipu I mean, gluing the rope to the sticks
10:38 anon6451 but their specific strength outperform most other materials
10:38 SpeedEvil anon6451: It really doesn't.
10:38 deshipu or just gluing the sticks together
10:39 SpeedEvil anon6451: What specific thing are you trying to make.
10:41 anon6451 PVA glue has a specific strength of about 5 MPa, right?
10:42 anon6451 speed evil nothing yet. just checking all possibilities
10:42 SpeedEvil Good wood-glue exceeds the strength of the wood
10:43 anon6451 screw destroys wood, therefore you can't put many of them. same with nails. they require about 20 times as much surface of the wood comparing to it section area, to make uniform bond.
10:45 anon6451 probably only locally. you need again about 20 times the surface the is glued to rip the wood somewhere else, not at the glue joint
10:45 SpeedEvil There is no one solution to wood jointing.
10:45 SpeedEvil Proper joining of wood needs to know the grain orientation and other things.
10:45 SpeedEvil It is in general not hard to exceed the strength of wood before a joint fails.
10:45 SpeedEvil Rope is not better.
10:46 anon6451 for me ropes looks promising.. they have much better strength than glue, and don't destroy wood as nails/screws
10:46 SpeedEvil rope works loose, and is really annoying to fit. Whipping may be different. But it is never better than glue.
10:49 anon6451 wood has tensile strength of about 100-150 MPA. glues may have about 5-20 MPA. ropes - from 200 to 3000 MPA.
10:50 anon6451 they are annoying. but apart from that - at least they worth some try, I guess
10:58 anon6451 bolts probably as good. but require to drill a hole (then they aren't better, than screws), or metal line (complicared form,, with holes for a bolt) that will wrap an element
11:07 anon6451 if somebody is still interested, I thought about similar principle, that is used in textile industry, where thread is inside a moving carrier
15:19 anon6451 speedevil any proofs about magnetic field perception ? I doubt that its true
15:20 SpeedEvil you mean earth field?
15:21 anon6451 yes. that's just 5 microtesla, right?
15:21 anon6451 or you was talking about 1T+ fields?
15:23 SpeedEvil http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11138791
15:24 SpeedEvil there are lots of papers about birds and stuff
15:24 SpeedEvil because to do the research on humans, you need to get through an ethics committee
15:25 anon6451 but birds have special pigment in eyes and it is vital for migrations.but I will check it
15:26 SpeedEvil There are several magnetosensors
15:30 anon6451 interesting, thanks
15:36 veverak http://i.imgur.com/g1JEp8G.jpg
15:36 veverak ok
15:36 veverak I made something that looks little bti silly
15:36 veverak :D
15:38 deshipu SpeedEvil: or just get funding from the army
15:38 deshipu SpeedEvil: then you get to experiment on soldiers, which are almost like humans, biologically
15:38 SpeedEvil Or DIY
15:38 veverak :D
15:39 SpeedEvil A little triaxial head-mounted coil with a few milliamps and a learningt ask
15:39 SpeedEvil Needs more cowbell
15:40 deshipu I have the version 4 of my robot's body
15:40 deshipu this is much improved mechanically
15:40 SpeedEvil Does it now use astroglide(tm) ?
15:40 deshipu also, I finally found the right switches for the feet!
15:41 deshipu http://paste.sheep.art.pl/f4d69933-9d7d-4ba7-9092-46f86f3d1e9d/%2Binline
15:41 veverak awesome
15:41 deshipu the trick was to not look for buttons, but for switches used for detecing whether a credit card is inserted
15:41 veverak deshipu: reminds me
15:41 deshipu you see the two plastic numbs on it?
15:41 veverak deshipu: you used micropython i one of those <50$ robots?
15:42 deshipu they fit exactly into the holes in that servo horn
15:42 deshipu veverak: well, it's not <$50 with micropython anymore
15:42 veverak ?
15:42 veverak point is that friend of mine needs to learn programming ...
15:42 deshipu you need a cortex m4 mcu
15:42 veverak and i consider the right way: find something you have to program
15:43 veverak find something to program
15:43 veverak blindlessly making tutorial stuff is pointless
15:43 deshipu I think the cheapest board that can run micropython is about $20
15:43 veverak but, little walking robot :)
15:43 deshipu walking robots are very frustrating
15:43 deshipu not good for learning to program
15:43 anon6451 I guess there is a python>arduino translator, isn't it?
15:44 veverak hmm
15:44 veverak yeah
15:44 veverak maybe normal robot rover would be better
15:44 veverak :)
15:45 deshipu better get him a PopPet
15:45 veverak ?
15:45 deshipu http://www.poppettherobot.com/
15:45 deshipu something like this
15:45 deshipu put pyboard inside
15:45 deshipu and voila
15:46 veverak yeah
15:46 deshipu it's much cheaper when you make it yourself, not order, btw
15:47 anon6451 what is the current best ratio for self replication in percents?
15:47 deshipu 0
15:48 anon6451 but reprap?
15:48 anon6451 and other box like printers
15:48 veverak as repraper
15:48 veverak I spent a lot of time lately to replace printed parts by parts made by other means
15:49 anon6451 why?
15:49 veverak because using everything 3d printed sucks hard?
15:49 veverak :D
15:49 veverak one should use brain and not goddamn ideology when designing technical stuff
15:50 anon6451 is it just your opinion or people don't like 3d printers any more?
15:50 veverak you don't get the point
15:50 veverak point is that 3d print everything you can is what people do a lot in reprap comunity and it's bad
15:51 veverak we should focus more on printing what makes sense, buying what makes sense and using other tools on things where it makes sense
15:51 veverak again, "use what makes sense"
15:51 anon6451 but why? if they can make cheap parts, what's wrong with that
15:51 veverak have you read what I said?
15:51 veverak :D
15:51 veverak use what makes sense
15:52 anon6451 for example?
15:52 deshipu for example make the frame from something rigid and sturdy
15:52 veverak YY
15:52 veverak ^^
15:52 veverak :)
15:52 veverak also
15:52 veverak 3d printed means it's from plastic
15:52 deshipu ot chocolate
15:52 veverak which got worse parameters than metal
15:53 deshipu or
15:53 veverak so for part to have same sturdeness and rigidity as it metal counterpart
15:53 veverak it has to be bigger
15:53 anon6451 you can always make volume 9 times bigger and get the same strength
15:53 veverak nope, you can't
15:53 veverak I want tablesized machine
15:54 veverak that way my reprap would have to be much bigger
15:54 veverak and it's waste of many
15:54 anon6451 room sized isn't too bad ))
15:54 veverak *of money
15:54 deshipu it all depends on what is your goal
15:54 deshipu to have a good 3d printer
15:54 verak wants good 3d pri
15:54 deshipu or to have some ideological crap
15:54 veverak exactly
15:54 veverak anon6451: using aluminium profiles
15:55 anon6451 to have something with the best replication ratio, I guess
15:55 veverak using old stuff
15:55 deshipu anon6451: then I would suggest bacteria
15:55 deshipu anon6451: they have awesome replication ratio
15:55 anon6451 old junk is not standardised
15:55 veverak god damn, learn to use drill and you can make tons of things
15:55 deshipu anon6451: guinea pigs work too
15:55 veverak anon6451: not, but it can be modified and used
15:55 veverak :D
15:55 veverak again
15:56 veverak do not use stupid ideology
15:56 veverak sit down
15:56 anon6451 bacteria can't replicate until thousand of criteria is met. and they can't replicate that conditions
15:56 veverak tell yourself "what tools I've got?"
15:56 deshipu every time someone asks me if they should get a 3d printer I tell them to buy a dremel
15:56 veverak tell yourself "what I want to do?"
15:56 deshipu that's a much better investment
15:56 veverak pick the best combination
15:56 anon6451 3d cutter with a dremel ))
15:56 deshipu that's called CNC
15:57 verak lvoes his l
15:57 anon6451 okay. do you like CNC more?
15:57 veverak :)
15:57 veverak but again
15:57 veverak lathe is much more precise than my 3d printer
15:57 deshipu cnc is much better, but also much more expensive and harder
15:57 veverak can handle better materials
15:57 veverak I don't get headaches from it
15:57 veverak BUT
15:57 deshipu I think the best workflow would be to cnc-cut molds and then resin-cast stuff
15:58 veverak it just can't do everything and my 3D printer can do almost everything
15:58 anon6451 dremel instead of an extruder doesnt looks expensive
15:58 veverak anon6451: that's bullshit
15:58 deshipu anon6451: that would be a crappy cnc
15:58 veverak anon6451: dremell is completely different kind of tool
15:58 veverak anon6451: 3d printer doesn't have resistance to it's movement
15:58 veverak (normally)
15:58 veverak dremell tools make a big resistance
15:58 deshipu anon6451: http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/ <-- have a read
15:58 veverak and machine have to HANDLE it properly
15:59 anon6451 ah, right.. pressure on the dremell
15:59 veverak which means the machine have to be built completely differently
15:59 anon6451 I see
15:59 veverak anon6451: http://i.imgur.com/HUkTRcq.jpg
15:59 veverak my latest project
15:59 deshipu especially the heading 1.2
16:00 veverak maybe I could only 3d print it
16:00 veverak but I picked to make the adapters for tube on lathe
16:00 anon6451 what is that blue tentacles?
16:00 veverak it was just 1.5h per one piece
16:00 veverak and they are perfect and won't fail
16:00 veverak something I woudln't be so sure with 3d printed version
16:01 veverak anon6451: ehmm
16:01 veverak anon6451: sec! :D
16:01 veverak http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/z/DyAAAOSwQItUAWHY/$_35.JPG
16:01 veverak they are used on CNC's for bringing in water/air
16:01 veverak want to use it to cool product I am printing
16:02 veverak *3d printed product
16:02 deshipu so that it's cooler B-)
16:02 veverak yeah!
16:02 veverak :D
16:03 veverak anon6451: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:43272
16:03 veverak non 3d printed ones got no problems even with water
16:03 veverak but I suppose one would have to play a bit with 3d printed ones to be waterproof
16:03 deshipu veverak: actually you can buy them much cheaper from aliexpress
16:04 veverak you mean the blue pieces?
16:04 veverak I doubt it, printing price was close to none
16:04 deshipu yeah
16:04 veverak :D
16:04 anon6451 would not it have a huge hydraulic pressure? why not a tube with wire for keeping the position?
16:05 veverak you know of wire that will keep it's shape indefinetly?
16:05 veverak deshipu: I suppose I printed one for 0.07 eur
16:05 deshipu http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Generic-GEN09015-Plastic-Flexible-Water-Oil-Coolant-Pipe-Hose-6-Pack-Free-shipping/32370574975.html
16:05 veverak deshipu: even if the price of the pieces itself would be better, postage kills the price afaik?
16:05 deshipu veverak: free shipping
16:06 veverak lol
16:06 deshipu veverak: also, count your time and the fact that you are not printing something else
16:06 veverak damn it, they beat me
16:06 veverak deshipu: it was funny exercise
16:06 veverak it's not as easy as it looks to print and I've got valuable experience
16:06 anon6451 iron holds it shape if it's not heated to 800*C :)
16:06 veverak anon6451: this si freely movable by hand and keeps it's shape
16:07 deshipu veverak: they beat you and they still make money on it! ;)
16:07 veverak deshipu: yeah, at least i learned something
16:07 veverak nah, next time
16:07 veverak :d
16:07 veverak anyway
16:07 veverak question
16:07 veverak anybody experience with that, seller on ebay says that you can order multiple things for one postage
16:07 veverak but!
16:08 veverak I can't find "add to basket" button on page of his items?
16:08 veverak deshipu: didn't have to wait for it!!! :D :D :D :d
16:08 anon6451 ask seller
16:08 shipu has no idea about
16:08 veverak http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-meters-of-Shakmods-Expanding-Matte-Braided-Sleeving-Cable-Harness-11-Colours/161766868973?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32933%26meid%3D972bd579edde4daabec6b9eebf3f7257%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331149417022
16:09 anon6451 what is the price for 3d printer material led kg? cheapest one
16:09 veverak you don't want cheapes one
16:09 veverak :)
16:09 veverak believe me, you don't :)
16:09 anon6451 okay. next one :)
16:10 verak switched to cheaper which is more sensitive, but it works so he consider it his cheapest usable op
16:10 deshipu I guess the cheapest would be to make an extruder for the filament and buy pellets
16:10 anon6451 vevrak price per kg?
16:10 veverak and it's 24.31 eur per kg
16:10 veverak AND
16:10 anon6451 ouch
16:10 deshipu you could also grind the bad prints then
16:11 veverak it's from shop that is two streets from me
16:11 veverak so instant delivery, no psotage
16:11 veverak deshipu: in TODO
16:11 anon6451 what plastic is it?
16:11 veverak deshipu: but I lack experience to build it, so have to buy it, aaaaand to be honest it's low on tobuy list
16:11 veverak anon6451: ABS 2.9mm
16:12 anon6451 same as in car panels and monitor cases?
16:12 anon6451 a...-but a due be a styrene?
16:13 deshipu veverak: by the way, have you seen https://hackaday.io/project/7168/gallery#8773492bb5e33255b483760dcbaf0b42 ?
16:13 anon6451 oh. butadiene
16:13 veverak anon6451: dunno
16:13 veverak anon6451: same as LEGO
16:13 veverak :)
16:13 veverak but I want to switch to PLA eventually
16:13 veverak it's bio degradable
16:13 veverak deshipu: awesome!
16:13 anon6451 thought about grinding Lego? ))
16:13 veverak deshipu: ehmm
16:13 veverak anon6451: people do it :)
16:13 veverak deshipu: have you thought
16:13 veverak deshipu: about some cool RGB leds?
16:13 verak h
16:14 deshipu veverak: it's in the "optical camouflage" mode ;)
16:14 deshipu oh, there will be leds
16:14 anon6451 yeah. same plastic as in cars.. wonder when people will realise this
16:15 deshipu anon6451: I think they know already ;)
16:15 anon6451 why not to grind every abs around? do they differ?
16:15 deshipu you need to have it in the form of a filament
16:16 veverak anon6451: yeah, they tend to differ
16:16 deshipu and preferably consistent in density and relatively pure
16:16 veverak once community realized what difference can cause low quality fillament and high quality one
16:16 veverak ...
16:16 veverak :)
16:16 veverak anon6451: also it's not neverending process
16:16 anon6451 about CNC+epoxy combo - epoxy is expensive too
16:16 veverak anon6451: everytime ABS is reused, molecules get shorter
16:16 veverak whichs makes it crappy
16:17 anon6451 you can depolymerize it and then polymerise again
16:17 veverak is ot easy process?
16:17 anon6451 PS at least.
16:17 deshipu you can make PLA out of corn starch, no?
16:18 anon6451 PS is easy. butadiene and acrilonitril probably not
16:18 veverak deshipu: well, as I look at your robot
16:18 veverak you make me feel like lazy piece of ...
16:18 veverak nah, back to work!
16:18 veverak :D
16:18 anon6451 I don't like biodegradable materials. never study pla
16:18 deshipu veverak: I'm waiting for bolts for that one
16:18 deshipu veverak: I actually ordered some acrylic bolts
16:19 veverak wow
16:19 veverak :)
16:19 deshipu so it will be all transparent
16:19 anon6451 thread on a bolt will not be transparent anyway
16:19 deshipu well, not 100%
16:20 deshipu it will pass some light
16:20 anon6451 it will be white because of micro particles of plastic, I guess
16:20 veverak well
16:20 verak looks at his pri
16:20 veverak egmm
16:20 veverak I suppose next one should be cable managment
16:21 deshipu https://hackaday.io/project/7168/gallery#8773492bb5e33255b483760dcbaf0b42
16:21 deshipu it's not horrible
16:22 deshipu should look cool with LEDs :)
16:22 anon6451 tatikoma!
16:22 deshipu logikoma, actually
16:22 anon6451 oh, okay
16:22 deshipu but close enough :)
16:23 anon6451 in hits they had wheels in legs
16:23 veverak makes me wanna watch ghost in the shell
16:23 deshipu anon6451: this one has wheels too
16:23 anon6451 gits*
16:24 veverak hmnm
16:24 anon6451 ahh, right. cool
16:24 deshipu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvPRhwA7Aa0 <-- early prototype
16:24 veverak another TODO thing here is closedloop axis on reprap
16:24 veverak especially my Y axis
16:24 veverak gives me headache too often
16:24 deshipu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LjSKvdbtPk <-- and walking
16:26 anon6451 veverak can't put a belt before combining other parts?
16:26 theBear them modern printers often got some pretty decent feedback-electronic-ruler thingers
16:27 veverak anon6451: ?
16:27 veverak theBear: any more info?
16:27 veverak I wanted ruler
16:27 veverak but let's say that CNC ones are expensive
16:28 veverak anon6451: O dodm
16:28 veverak anon6451: I didn't understand O:)
16:28 anon6451 I thought you can't assemble your )
16:28 theBear umm, that's all the info there is... same thing fancy commercial machines use, those often have glass "rulers" in them
16:28 veverak yeah
16:29 theBear pretty sure pritners are plastic
16:29 veverak glass rulers are expensive
16:29 ace4016 why are they expensive?
16:29 theBear printers are cheap, people buy anything from a laser to a hi res inkjet for under $100 and often half that these days, after a year warranty and finding out new catridges/ink/toner cost more than a new one, well
16:29 theBear ace4016, cos they're ultra-fine/accurate machined
16:30 veverak you mean 3d printer
16:30 anon6451 thebear do you know any example of a robot that can do knots with rope? and wrap an object around with that rope
16:30 veverak Isee
16:30 theBear think opto-sensor on mil-spaced etched glass
16:30 veverak :)
16:30 ace4016 ah, accuracy. because glass itself is pretty cheap :P
16:30 theBear heh, i do not know a boyscout robot
16:30 anon6451 hehe
16:31 theBear grr, i dropped my pill and lost it, is it in my shoe ?
16:31 deshipu theBear: does the shoe look healtier than last time you saw it?
16:31 anon6451 ahahah, lol
16:32 theBear aha ! stupid rolled jean-ends
16:32 theBear he
16:32 theBear heh that is
16:32 deshipu hungry clothes
16:33 deshipu I wonder when we will get self-cleaning self-regenerating clothes that you have to actually feed
16:33 theBear this year according to the movies :)
16:33 deshipu probably bioengineering will get there before nanotechnology
16:33 anon6451 never. its cheaper to replace it and rebuild daily, than to build in a repair mechanism.
16:34 deshipu anon6451: ah, so you started to get it!
16:34 anon6451 eh?
16:34 veverak deshipu: got response for your logicoma
16:34 veverak shut up and take my money
16:34 deshipu anon6451: about 3d-printing 3d printers
16:34 veverak :D
16:34 anon6451 I want that rebuilder. not repairer )
16:34 veverak (from friend of mine)
16:34 deshipu veverak: when I finish it, I might as well sell it
16:34 veverak :D
16:35 deshipu veverak: have you seen the lego tachikoma?
16:35 veverak nope?
16:35 veverak btw: I suppose this would have succes ond kickstarter
16:35 deshipu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dargOslomMA
16:35 anon6451 show us
16:35 veverak nice!
16:35 veverak :D
16:37 anon6451 why they don't use wheels and walking at the same time, as in gits
16:38 anon6451 and an AI in addition would be good :)
16:38 deshipu they do
16:38 theBear they make those rolly rollerskate shoes up to size 12 now, i'm tempted to findout if someone whose foot went all paralaspasticated on one leg can still do that
16:38 theBear i can squeeze into most size 12s
16:39 deshipu almost all robots that started this year in the DARPA robotics challenge had wheels and legs
16:39 anon6451 they are unstable as hell..
16:40 anon6451 wheel boots I mean. is there a link on DARPA challenge?
16:40 deshipu theroboticschallenge.org
16:41 deshipu my personal favorite legs+wheels robot is https://youtu.be/kMF83m8lNrw?t=45
16:41 theBear oh, like an ultimate-wheel, or is that impossible wheel ? i find one
16:43 theBear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3bemES4s2A that's ultimate, so impossible is "the same" but oooh, sorry bout that music, i'd just mute the whole thing if i was you.... and err... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HjTRArfCSs is impossible
16:43 deshipu anyways, good night
16:44 anon6451 cartwheeling is amaizing!
16:46 anon6451 thebear there is no free riding. that's the whole point of wheels
16:48 anon6451 on the last one there is, but no pedals... you need the pedals And free riding, otherwise you will get tired instantly
16:50 theBear those things are pure novelty, but the guys that are good do it with amazingly little effort for LONG periods... before my foot/back spasticated themselves i was getting back/into unicycling (regular kind with a seat and pedals :) bigtime, still move in those circles at the back of irc and ya know, if the circus comes to town :)
16:51 anon6451 why not 2 wheels?
16:51 anon6451 on 1 wheel you can't have a non-rocket-propulsion-brakes
16:52 anon6451 or you can have up to 1g breaking using huge wheel and low centre of mass
16:54 anon6451 or more than 1g if you have huge gyroscope inside with axle perpendicular to a main wheel
16:58 anon6451 thebear what about breaking?
16:58 theBear it's not rollerskates, you just jump off if there ain't a handy incline
16:59 theBear and if you talking re: electrified versions, heck, even in theory one of those impossible things with a handheld lever, you can have braking as good as a segway or any balancing bot, just gotta pre-account
17:02 anon6451 that will need damn good balancing. segway have problems with that. at 1g you will have to lean to 45*. its impossible
17:02 anon6451 and time lag for prebalance for stopping
17:03 anon6451 at segway person balance them self to stop. that takes time
17:04 theBear meh, balancing bots get around easy, and you'd be amazed what human brain/bodies can pull off subconscious/instinctively with a little practice if you haven't already noticed... i always figured biggest "problem" for any segway is the same as doubling an idiot on any kind of 2wheel bike, you can't predict the silly weight shifts they gonna do
17:04 theBear yeah it takes time, but whaddya want ? it's effectively a single wheel either example.... you're the one that asked !
17:06 anon6451 on bike I can stop the in 300ms. on a segway that will take about 1000 ms. and on a bike I can have 1g. on a segway stopping acceleration will be about 0.2g at most
17:07 anon6451 not enough for a working example, as for me :p
17:07 anon6451 *start to stop in...
17:07 anon6451 *begin to stop
17:08 theBear meh, i say yer not living dangerously enough :)
17:08 anon6451 ahh. anyway. to proceed a speed reduction.
17:09 anon6451 if you have a braking that is 5 times worse, you have to keep your speed 5 times less, I guess
17:10 theBear nah, even if you go on the pure math and assume a known stopping point ahead of time etc, it' one of those exponential things... you know, like road-safety ads say for wet weather etc
17:11 anon6451 okay. exponentially. but still top speed on a bike can be 2 times more, safely
17:11 anon6451 and bike weight about the same as a segway. and cost 50 times less
17:13 theBear i think it's more like the other way... somehting like "if you go 10km/h faster and have to emergency-brake, you need an extra 50 meters for what was a 10meter stop at the lower speed"
17:13 anon6451 and bike is repairable, unlike segway
17:13 theBear i ain't advocating segways, not even a little bit
17:13 theBear tho i can fix anything
17:14 theBear still, you asked, go easy on the nay-saying, have a "that's doable !" attitude !
17:18 anon6451 if you have 3 m/s on a segway that will take 3*1+(3/0.2)/(3/2)=23m for a full stop. on a bike at 6 m/s that will take 6*0.3+(6/1)*(6/2)=20m
17:19 anon6451 1000ms, 0.2g for a segway, 300ms , 1g on a bike
17:19 anon6451 probably I got it wrong...
17:20 anon6451 but, "that's double"! :)
17:22 anon6451 *(3/2) in a first part
17:22 theBear why are you measuring in g's ? it just feels like such an inappropriate unit
17:25 anon6451 ah! right. I was calculating in a 1m/s actually. 1m/s of stopping acceleration for a bike and 0.2m/s for a segway. that's what was wrong
17:26 anon6451 then it will be 5.25 for segway and 3m for a bike.
17:27 anon6451 at 10m/s for a bike and 2m/s for a segway. mainly because of latency.
17:29 anon6451 you can't apply brakes at segway instantly, you have to change body position first. that's fine for prepared stopping, but does not work in constantly changing environment
17:29 SpeedEvil you can apply brakes instnatly.
17:29 SpeedEvil You stop more quickly
17:29 anon6451 and fall..
17:29 SpeedEvil (by faceplanting)
17:30 anon6451 hehe
17:30 anon6451 great friction, btw
17:31 anon6451 speedevil don't be evil to him :) I want to understand why does he like monocycles
17:37 veverak http://i.imgur.com/N3sPkyu.png
17:37 veverak cable managment tool
17:37 veverak hope it will works
17:37 veverak that transparent thing is 4mm thick aluminium
17:47 anon6451 4mm of aluminium can hold many hundreds of kg
17:50 theBear heh, howbout that... /me takes a note
17:52 rue_school why not just use a ziptie cable strap??
17:52 rue_school I ahve a 3d print of one somewhere
17:52 rue_school veverak, still awake?
17:58 theBear to hold many hundreds of kgs ? nah, i vote 4mm of aluminium over that :)
17:59 anon6451 I mean its overshot :) to whatever the goal is..
18:04 veverak rue_school: releasable zip tie?
18:04 veverak useless otherwise
18:04 verak hate zip
18:04 veverak or
18:04 veverak I hate the general concept that you ziptie it, than you throw it into a bin and ziptie again
18:05 veverak of course there are cases where it makes sense
18:05 veverak but if I don't have to, I don't want to :)
18:05 veverak P.S: I have i3 frame amde of muliple 4mm thick plates
18:05 veverak so I have plenty of spots where to mount this :)