#robotics Logs

Jul 14 2015

04:28 Mushrooshi and.... predictably... I'm working on a... 3D printed arduino powered robot >.> lol
04:28 Jak_o_Shadows Hey. I'm different. Mine is msp430 powered.
04:30 deshipu Mushrooshi: welcome!
04:30 Mushrooshi hi deshipu, Jak_o_Shadows
04:30 deshipu Mushrooshi: did I see you at #arduino?
04:30 Mushrooshi you probably did :3
04:30 Mushrooshi I'm working on the DJ robot thing
04:30 deshipu dj?
04:31 Mushrooshi couple progress vids: the 3D printed crossfader mechanism is much more rock solid than my cardboard prototype https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qw6R919Rhk
04:31 Mushrooshi and I programmed a scratch routine that doesn't sound awful, lol https://vine.co/v/evLZ3YtUjpH
04:31 deshipu hmm, wouldn't it be easier to just plug into those pots?
04:31 Mushrooshi can't wait to replace that ugly cardboard prototype for the record player scratching arm though with something 3D printed and more elegant.
04:32 Mushrooshi plug into the pots?
04:32 deshipu with an adc
04:32 deshipu err
04:32 deshipu dac
04:32 Mushrooshi control the knobs?
04:32 deshipu no, remove the knobs, plug in a dac
04:33 deshipu I mean, this is a very roundabaout way of doing this
04:33 Mushrooshi it is, and thats why its fun :P
04:33 Mushrooshi I'm not going for efficiency with this.
04:33 Mushrooshi if I did, i'd just straight up write some MIDI scripts and control everything in software
04:35 Mushrooshi my goal is a robot that performs turntablist scratching routines the same way a human does with the crossfader (which is the slider you saw being controlled by the single servo with green 3d printed parts) and a turntable with a record on it
04:36 Mushrooshi both sounds accurate like a "very good" turntablist (If I got it to like Atrak or QBert or Jazzy Jeff... that'd be dope... high goals though :P) but also look flashy of sorts while doing it.
04:37 Mushrooshi I'm thinking of redesigning the scratching mechanism to manipulate the vinyl more like a human does rather than its strange twisting action, but of course the mechanism and control becomes more complicated.
04:37 Mushrooshi As long as function performs to my standard, I want to maximize form too. After all, its a live music performance robot, where style points matter :P
04:39 Mushrooshi https://youtu.be/uy2JJqMO93M?t=2m53s really, only crossfader control and moving the record are the only two things needed for a DJ to scratch. timing and speed is what gives it different rhythm and sound
04:43 deshipu Mushrooshi: makes me think that your robot really needs eyes with moving eyebrows
04:45 Mushrooshi Building a humanoid figure in front of it is actually not an awful idea :P
04:47 deshipu you could actually get one of those ad stands from some old video rental store
04:47 deshipu you know, carboard cutout of some actor or something
04:48 deshipu and just add some pieces of fur with servos as the eyebrows
04:48 Mushrooshi i kind of want a cardboard cut out of my anime persona except with metal skin and glowy eyes
04:49 deshipu that would work too, I guess
04:50 Mushrooshi omg...
04:50 Mushrooshi I learned that uhhh.
04:50 Mushrooshi there's actually a standard notation for turntablism.
04:51 deshipu it's getting old and boring, eh?
04:51 deshipu wonder when there will be first scientific degrees on it
04:51 deshipu well, academic degrees, anywyas
04:52 Mushrooshi I want to write something that takes it as input and translates it into routine scripts
04:53 deshipu good idea
04:53 Mushrooshi http://puu.sh/iYFcE/68e92f24fd.png
04:54 Mushrooshi its like turntable sheetmusic
04:55 deshipu doesn't look very computer-friendly :/
04:56 Mushrooshi yea
04:56 Mushrooshi since theres not that many basic building blocks of a scratch
04:56 Mushrooshi it might not be worth the time since
04:56 Mushrooshi im not going to be feeding it carbon copy routines
04:58 Mushrooshi like this short routine: https://vine.co/v/evLZ3YtUjpH
04:58 Mushrooshi its built up with this code segment: http://puu.sh/iYFmG/2867afb7c1.png
04:58 deshipu I recently read this https://medium.com/happy-ninja/how-i-d-redesign-piano-sheet-music-355c4f9012f1
04:58 deshipu maybe you could come up with your own, better format for it
04:59 Mushrooshi and those are just broken down into arm sweeping motions and when its muted or thru: http://puu.sh/iYFnL/64b9eadc44.png
04:59 deshipu Mushrooshi: but I thnk the best would be if you managed to plug into the servo's pots and have the routines recorded
04:59 Mushrooshi that would work if... I could actually scratch well myself XD
04:59 Mushrooshi as it stands. my robot is a _much_ better turntablist than I am
05:00 Mushrooshi (fortunately, my robot doesnt have taste in music or know any other aspects of DJing, I haven't made myself obsolete yet :P)
05:00 deshipu well, the best approach is if you could record it, and then touch up the recording
05:01 Mushrooshi I've been thinking of printing out circular optical encoder stickers to stick on the record labels for optical tracking
05:01 Mushrooshi seems very easy to do that
05:01 deshipu I think the player already has an encoder built in
05:01 Mushrooshi player?
05:01 deshipu the record player
05:01 deshipu the turntable
05:01 deshipu or how you call it
05:02 Mushrooshi normally called turntables (TTs) yea
05:02 Mushrooshi it wouldn't be helpful because the motion of the turntable's platter doesn't correspond with the motion of the record itself when scratching
05:03 deshipu I see
05:03 Mushrooshi for scratching, between the platter and the record itself is a "slipmat" and it should have very little friction.
05:03 deshipu but yeah, optical encoders are easy
05:04 Mushrooshi basically, the record should only spin with the TT"s platter when nothing is touching the wheel, otherwise if a finger is holding the record, the platter should spin at full speed underneath while the record is moving with the hand
05:05 deshipu I didn't know that, I thought you are actually stoping TT's motor, and I thought that's barbaric ;)
05:06 Mushrooshi if thats happening, you better have a direct-drive turntable :P
05:06 Mushrooshi which I learned that, while direct-drive is practically the requirement for a DJ to spin with, its not automatically the "superior" turntable.
05:07 Mushrooshi turns out audiophiles prefer belt-driven
05:07 Mushrooshi because it has the least vibration vs a direct-drive TT since the belt dampens it
05:07 deshipu audiophiles prefer whatever is more expensive
05:07 deshipu rare wood cable holders, etc.
05:08 veverak :D
05:08 deshipu Mushrooshi: how about direct-drive and then a belt? :P
05:09 Mushrooshi im not sure what I did in my code but yesterday, I had a perfect algorithm for counting beats, and I messed it up and it would accidentally add another beat randomly maybe once every 100ish beats or so.
05:09 deshipu how does that sound?
05:09 Mushrooshi but I think I fixed it and its been running continously for 2 hours without slipping or adding a beat.
05:10 deshipu you should have random beat skipping, just to mess with people
05:10 Mushrooshi intentionally off-beat patterns can sound good
05:10 Mushrooshi but... its not intentional :/
05:10 deshipu Mushrooshi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usk59Byl390
05:11 Mushrooshi now that I think about it though... maybe I should add a control that lets me offset the next pattern.
05:11 Mushrooshi one mode of operation I'd like the robot to control with is alongside the human DJ, where i press buttons to select which pattern or routine it should perform
05:12 Mushrooshi and it plays it along whatever music I'm playing.
05:12 Mushrooshi another mode of operation I'd like it to do is just randomly select patterns or randomly generate patterns and run continously to a looped beat
05:13 Mushrooshi man, i need to rewatch trigun
05:13 veverak nah
05:13 deshipu I never watched it
05:13 Mushrooshi i watched it like 8 years ago, the only thing I can remember is plants, that water-hogging guy, and the guy with a spiky shoulder, and somechick with a bajillion tiny guns.
05:14 veverak reminds me my struggle with configuring PID somehow
05:14 veverak :)
05:14 deshipu I only read the manga and listen to ost
05:14 Mushrooshi mmmmm maybe ill read the manga instead of rewatching the anime.
05:14 deshipu it's faster :)
05:15 Mushrooshi can't wait until the love live english dub is out, if its good ill be surprised, if its bad, it'll be a hilarious drinking game.
05:15 deshipu speaking of anime, have you seen Short Peace?
05:15 Mushrooshi heard of it but havent seen it
05:15 deshipu some cool robots in the last part
05:16 deshipu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usk59Byl390
05:16 Mushrooshi same video?
05:17 deshipu ah, sorry, chromium doesn't understand unix selections :/
05:17 deshipu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSTLyCpb_Kw
05:18 Mushrooshi oooh this seems like something i should watch in full
05:19 deshipu yup, there are not enough "realistic" near-future combat movies
05:19 Mushrooshi that reminds me, the Japanese accepted the American's challenge for that barely-qualifies-as-giant robot fight.
05:20 deshipu yeah, but they want melee :)
05:20 Mushrooshi I'm not complaining about that at all :D
05:20 Mushrooshi probably a lot more exciting than watching glorified tanks sniping eachother.
05:21 Mushrooshi though tbh. im kind of uh
05:21 deshipu well, I don't like those "fights" where they just put some bits of mechnisms into a modern sculpture, attach some launchers to it, put it in front of a car wreck and activate the laumchers...
05:21 Mushrooshi worried the outcome will be more boring than I expect.
05:21 deshipu you need mobility for interesting combat
05:22 deshipu otherwise there is hardly any tactics
05:22 Mushrooshi I think it'll be more exciting if they fight with the pilots lives in actual danger.
05:22 Mushrooshi of course, I dont want anyone to actually die or get seriously injured.
05:23 Mushrooshi but loser coming out with battle scratches and actual damage being done and not some watered down padded stuff? that would not disappoint me.
05:23 deshipu it's not about danger
05:23 deshipu it's about actually making meaningful decisions
05:23 deshipu either in the design or while piloting
05:23 Mushrooshi why not both :P
05:24 Mushrooshi well... im not really sure how I know how to put what I mean in words.
05:24 deshipu putting someone else in danger is not exciting
05:24 deshipu and you won't put yourself in danger
05:25 Mushrooshi this is obviously meant to be a publicized event, filmed and for entertainment.
05:25 Mushrooshi I don't want it to be like
05:25 Mushrooshi one robot shoots the other robot with a paintball gun, and then fake fireworks pop out and everyone acts like it was destroyed.
05:26 deshipu well, real-life paintball *is* exciting
05:26 deshipu not because of explosions or pain
05:26 verak always thought that robots could destroy each othe
05:26 deshipu but simply because it's hard
05:26 Mushrooshi I guess its kind of like in Battlebots and Robot Wars, a lot of the newbies and casuals to the sport get all excited to see flamethrowers
05:26 veverak deshipu: I agree
05:26 Mushrooshi when they are honestly the most useless weapons.
05:26 veverak deshipu: but I also think that the reason I liked paintball so much was because it actually hurted when you failed :P :)
05:26 Mushrooshi they simply take far too long to cause any damage.
05:27 Mushrooshi i guess. I want to see actual combat and tactics?
05:27 deshipu Mushrooshi: they work if the other robot is not designed against them
05:27 veverak yeah
05:27 veverak I suppose frying arduino would do a harm
05:27 veverak :0
05:27 Mushrooshi deshipu: that would've worked in like. 1998 or something when the "sport" was still pretty new.
05:28 Mushrooshi but at this point, every robot's sealed in some way, it would take more than enough time for the robot to escape or cause damage than a flamethrower would do.
05:28 deshipu I think it would be much more interesting if they were autonomous, not remote-controlled
05:28 deshipu then it becomes much harder and thus more exciting
05:28 Mushrooshi if you can cause damage with a flame thrower, that damage is more or less nullified because you've got the robot immobilized in some way already.
05:29 Mushrooshi there are different classes of robot combat, and autonomous is one of them.
05:29 deshipu Mushrooshi: never seen that
05:29 deshipu Mushrooshi: I mean, I saw robo sumo, but that's not flamethrowers
05:29 Mushrooshi its never been televised to my knowledge, its always been one of the more underground divisions of it.
05:29 Mushrooshi i watched robot wars starting when I was 3, and battlebots when I moved to the states when I was 5
05:30 deshipu I'm working on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSTLyCpb_Kw
05:30 deshipu you know Mech Warfare?
05:30 Mushrooshi my early robot combat interest eventually got me to this point :P
05:30 deshipu argh
05:30 deshipu wrong link again, sorry
05:30 deshipu https://hackaday.io/project/5840-chibi-mech-warfare
05:30 deshipu this
05:30 Mushrooshi ohhh i forgot that was a thing
05:30 deshipu so, Mech Warfare is also kinda boring
05:31 deshipu because the robots hardly move, just stand there and shoot at each other
05:31 deshipu so I want to make a version where you mostly move, and maybe get an occasional shot
05:32 deshipu the robots are much smaller, and the gun will have long charging time
05:32 deshipu and limited ammo
05:32 deshipu also, the terrain should be more insteresting
05:33 deshipu with uneven floor, etc.
05:33 Mushrooshi oh yeh, about what i meant with the kuratas vs megabot fight thing.
05:34 Mushrooshi id rather it not be some cheesy and staged thing like what I'd imagine a SNL robot fight sketch would look like.
05:34 Mushrooshi with some weird obstacle course and a long-range battle segment and a melee thing in some really boring format.
05:34 Mushrooshi id rather it be like a DARPA challenge.
05:34 deshipu darpa was super-boring ;)
05:35 deshipu the problem is, that american megabot can only stand there and shoot
05:35 Mushrooshi for now.
05:35 Mushrooshi they have a year to add melee stuff to it, heh
05:36 deshipu then it will stand there and bop the other robot over the head with an insulation foam sword
05:36 deshipu improvement
05:36 deshipu melee is kinda pointless for robots
05:37 Mushrooshi maybe I kind of just want realistic gundam stuff. which is kind of oxymoronic and mobile suits are, in theory, pretty inefficient and gimmicky.
05:38 deshipu "gundam" and "realistic" in the same sentence, ugh
05:38 deshipu mobile suits are possible and maybe even useful
05:38 deshipu just not the gundam style
05:39 Mushrooshi depends on which gundam universe you're talking about though.
05:39 Mushrooshi G-Gundam, absolutely unrealistic.
05:39 deshipu I would be very interested in more articulated "telepresence" robots
05:39 deshipu Mushrooshi: Shirow usually keeps his stuff quite realistic
05:39 deshipu at least on the surface
05:40 Mushrooshi Universal Century timeline is the most realistic IIRC.
05:40 deshipu of course he still has magical power supplies and super-dense muscles and whatnot
05:41 Mushrooshi I think in the future, towering humanoid robots will be possible and a few made, but I don't think they'll ever be practical.
05:41 deshipu Mushrooshi: you know where you have more realism with giant robots? Patlabor!
05:41 deshipu Mushrooshi: especially the movies
05:42 Mushrooshi i wonder when I'll ever have the combination of money laying around and time to build another gundam cosplay
05:42 deshipu I especially like the second movie
05:42 Mushrooshi except this time, enhance it with electronics
05:43 deshipu Mushrooshi: I'm building a logicoma!
05:43 Mushrooshi http://imgur.com/a/JC1jj i made this like 4 years ago~
05:43 Mushrooshi err
05:43 deshipu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg8LPhRLjiY <-- eye test
05:43 Mushrooshi 3 years ago?
05:44 deshipu must be hard to get through the door
05:44 Mushrooshi it was
05:44 Mushrooshi i always needed an assistant with me
05:44 Mushrooshi (that role was usually played by my best friend)
05:45 Mushrooshi ohhh i havent seen the logikoma before... or heard of it, but it sounds related to tachikoma?
05:45 Mushrooshi hmmm, its from ARISE
05:45 Mushrooshi still havent seen that
05:45 Mushrooshi loved GITS:SAC though
05:46 deshipu it's supposed to be the predescessor of tachikoma
05:47 deshipu arise is a rehashing of all the old ideas from gits, nothing really new
05:47 deshipu still, well done
05:52 deshipu Mushrooshi: have you seen that guy who made a arduino-based ironman suit?
05:53 deshipu the xrobots guy
05:53 Mushrooshi I feel like I've seen a few automated ones before, so im not sure which specific one
05:53 Mushrooshi I remember I've seen one where the face flipped up
05:53 deshipu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNIPYDTxNIY
05:54 Mushrooshi ooohhh I have not seen that before.
05:56 Mushrooshi i wonder if this is their day job.
05:57 deshipu he started with a hobby, but he might be earning enough from yt and ads now to actually do it at least part-time
05:57 Mushrooshi this stuff obviously takes a load of a combination of time and money to make.
05:58 deshipu mostly time
05:58 Mushrooshi I'd love to get to a point like that.
05:59 deshipu well, the best way to stop enoying a hobby is to turn it into a day job
06:00 deshipu enjoying*
06:00 Mushrooshi yea, thats something i'm afraid of.
06:03 Mushrooshi i guess a couple motivations for my DJ robot project include something impressive for possible employers, and something completely unique to me for DJing that, if I can get it working reliably and sounding great, would put me on the map in the music world.
06:03 deshipu I work as a programmer, so I get to tinker with stuff while "it's compiling" ;)
06:03 Mushrooshi i had an internship last summer at a fortune 500 company, so im not completely mehhh but
06:03 Mushrooshi my GPA is disasterous.
06:03 Mushrooshi so. i need some stuff to make up for my crap GPA. like my internship, and side projects :P
06:04 Mushrooshi (I do well in interviews, but its my GPA thats makin me trip when i try to get my foot in the door in the first place)
06:05 Mushrooshi neither are my main motivations though.
06:05 Mushrooshi i like robots and I like DJing and I wanted to combine the two :P
06:06 deshipu gpa?
06:06 Mushrooshi 2.48 >.>
06:07 deshipu what's that?
06:07 Mushrooshi oh
06:07 Mushrooshi grade-point average.
06:07 deshipu ah
06:07 Mushrooshi I thiiink a 2.48 is either a C+ or a B- student.
06:07 deshipu I always had 3.69, on a scale of 1-5
06:07 deshipu actually 2-5, sorry
06:08 deshipu but I've never seen an employer actually asking for it
06:09 deshipu some don't even care about my degree
06:09 Mushrooshi its kind of conflicting. most poeple say employers barely care about GPA if you've just graduated, and dont care at all if you've had a few years experience after.
06:10 Mushrooshi yet when it comes to apply for jobs or internships, I see this "3.0+ GPA REQUIRED" bar.
06:10 Mushrooshi advice I heard is to ignore if and apply anyway
06:11 deshipu yeah, you always ignore whatever is written on the description -- it's written by people who have no idea about the job and don't make any decisions
06:15 Mushrooshi oh that reminds me to check on if the timekeeping is still perfect
06:15 Mushrooshi ...oh dear.
06:15 Mushrooshi it got off time.
06:15 Mushrooshi not because of the arduino.
06:16 Mushrooshi or my programming.
06:16 Mushrooshi my laptop got too hot and the CPU started to throttle and my DJ software sounds major glitchy.
06:16 deshipu optimizing time \o/
06:20 Mushrooshi well, it lasted like... 3 hours?
06:20 Mushrooshi errr
06:20 Mushrooshi it kept time for 3 hours before the laptop failed at sending a proper clock
06:20 Mushrooshi and if it detects the clock is messed up for more than 4 predicted beats, it triggers a failsafe
06:25 Mushrooshi okie, time to go to b- oh... crap its 6AM.
06:25 Mushrooshi time to nap instead I guess...
09:10 bostonmacosx good morning
10:33 veverak Should I make hobbed gear or should I buy it
10:33 veverak hmmm
10:33 robotustra picture
10:33 veverak http://shop.arcol.hu/static/pics/items/mini_hyena_v2_8mm.jpg
10:34 robotustra I did pulleys for timing belt myself
10:34 veverak well
10:34 robotustra but only big ones
10:34 veverak yeah
10:34 veverak this is small
10:34 veverak http://www.uni-max.cz/fotocache/fullsize/at125_010_cpt.jpg
10:34 veverak but nah, with this I should be able to pull this off
10:37 robotustra if you have a lathe and tools to make the it you can make
10:37 robotustra but I would buy
10:38 veverak 10 eur + postage + wait time
10:38 veverak vs
10:38 veverak I have material
10:38 veverak but not sure I have all tools i need
10:38 veverak :D
10:40 robotustra what?
10:40 robotustra for this shit?
10:40 robotustra so do it yourself
10:40 robotustra it's 1 dollar part
10:42 robotustra for what printer is this bolt?
10:42 veverak i3
10:43 veverak http://shop.arcol.hu/item/mini_hyena_5mm_cr
10:43 veverak that is hobbed gear with best references I could find
10:43 veverak so let's just copy it
10:50 robotustra veverak: did you make your printer from the scratch?
10:50 veverak not really
10:50 veverak it was my first printer
10:50 veverak so it's customized i3
10:51 veverak rifraf gave me source codes for enforced i3 frame
10:51 veverak and I am tinkering with it a lot
10:51 robotustra so you are upgrading it?
10:51 veverak but I am really on verge of building my own
10:51 veverak :)
10:51 robotustra do you have plans?
10:52 veverak not really
10:52 veverak I won't start until i3 actually works
10:52 veverak but idea is dual extruder with corexy
10:52 robotustra xyz or other?
10:52 veverak and heatedbed on z axis
10:53 robotustra i have a corexy idea
10:53 veverak you know
10:53 veverak you make cube from profiles
10:53 veverak corexy on top
10:53 veverak etc...
10:53 veverak :)
10:53 robotustra yeah I cnow
10:54 robotustra know
10:54 robotustra like this http://i.imgur.com/ybx5KQY.png
10:59 robotustra delta printers are less noisy than xyz
11:00 robotustra I'm not sure about corexy
11:00 robotustra it's useful if you need to print something really big
11:03 veverak yeah
11:04 veverak but I prefer long/wide prints
11:04 veverak than "tall" prints
11:04 veverak and I also want direct dual
11:04 veverak so, corexy > delta for me
11:05 robotustra yeah, I also like big printing area, but sometimes I need a tall print
11:05 robotustra I rarely print higher 5 cm
11:05 veverak yeah, same here
11:06 veverak :)
11:06 veverak my highest prints were x-ends for i3
11:06 robotustra I printed a cup of about 7 cm - it took me about 6 hours
11:07 veverak well
11:07 robotustra but it's all about cooling of plastic
11:07 veverak I want to have practically two z axis
11:07 veverak one really slow but precise
11:07 veverak and second one for retracts, short, really fast
11:07 veverak http://wiki.veverak.org/Dual
11:08 veverak because, z-lift for retract is practically must... and making z axis both precise and fast to do it, si pain in the arse
11:08 veverak but if I split the functionality into different mechanism
11:08 veverak I only need precise z axis, it can be slow
11:09 robotustra I didn't got your idea yet
11:12 robotustra what z resolution do you want to do?
11:12 robotustra and your printing head with 2 motors will be too heavy
11:13 robotustra IMHO
11:17 robotustra if you decrease the weight of printing head you can increase the speed
11:22 veverak yeah
11:22 veverak but I don't want bowden
11:23 veverak :)
11:23 veverak so, I suppose
11:23 veverak I have to build stiff frame
11:23 veverak so I can have high speed AND two motors on extruder
11:23 veverak robotustra: also, corexy makes me one motor lighter compared to i3 for example
11:23 veverak so +- same
12:47 robotustra there is another type of drives to make carriage lighter
13:32 veverak nah
13:33 veverak have ve pm bot here?
21:48 rue_shop3 logger?