#robotics Logs
Dec 27 2014
#robotics Calendar
00:10 Triffid_Hunter rue_shop4: should get a lovely clean slug out that shows you exactly what's happening in there
00:13 rue_shop4 its a pain int eh ass to take apart repeatedly
00:13 rue_shop4 if the plastic gets soft and the glass gets warm the plastic sticks to it
00:13 rue_shop4 I had a fan on there pretty heavy and it still happened
00:14 rue_shop4 I'm basically thinking that the machine was operating by miricle
00:14 rue_shop4 and now its out of miricle juice
00:21 rue_shop4 there I made the rotary welded buckey ball
00:52 e_shop4 stuffs the printer back in the corner where he can forget about it after is pissed him
02:11 e_more closes aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the reprap related browser
02:12 ace4016 hehe
02:13 ace4016 i think i might take up a robotics project soon...i think for fab work, i'll either have to get good at making plastic parts somehow, or get a 3d printer
02:13 rue_more I was thinking of making arm10 printed
02:13 rue_more you seen arm9?
02:14 ace4016 nay
02:14 e_more hits ace4016 with the attention s
02:14 rue_more http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm9/p1060859.jpg
02:15 rue_more http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/robots/arm9/slide.htm
02:15 ace4016 sweet
02:15 ace4016 how well did it move?
02:15 rue_more its ok, the servos I used on arm...7 were better
02:15 rue_more 9 used newer, cheap ones
02:15 rue_more less stroke and less positional stability
02:15 ace4016 ah
02:16 rue_more for a servo based arm, pretty good
02:17 rue_more do watch the sideshow and give me comments on my build method
02:17 rue_more I'd like to know if anyone thinks my tricks are cool
02:19 rue_more I'd say that theres nothing done on it with the lathe that couldn't have been done with a drillpress, less erronious and extranious peices I made
02:33 ace4016 interesting ideas :P
02:41 Jak_o_Shadows Rue, I like your base joint a lot. I also like the belts in general.
02:41 Jak_o_Shadows sorry, bowden cables, I like them.
02:42 Jak_o_Shadows I also like the way you get the elbow degree of freedom, except I'd like to know the workspace of the arm
02:44 Jak_o_Shadows I'd love to see you do an extending arm (forearm, after the elbow joint)
02:46 Jak_o_Shadows Also, I like the idea of PVC pipe as the main frame. I think i'd use that aluminium extrusion I have, but I can seee it's advantages
03:01 rue_more the clearances could have been better
03:01 rue_more the pvc is glueable, and better yet, you really dont need much patience while waiting for it
03:02 rue_more the beads as bowden tubes was a fail, the beads lock onto the cable
04:58 orlock Eurgh
04:59 orlock Got an old 4 poster rack and 3x 2RU generic ATX" rack cases
04:59 orlock the ears on the rack rails stuck out too far - i had to trim about 3mm from all of them, went through 5 cutting disks
05:00 orlock i dont know how the fuck they ever got them racked
06:03 deshipu my newest child http://sheep.art.pl/Henk
06:50 Veverak so many servos :D
06:50 Veverak deshipu: any video?
06:50 Veverak :)
06:58 aethersis hi, anyone good at nyquist plots?
06:58 aethersis we have to learn to draw them by hand and I found some kind of strange paradox xD
07:00 aethersis if transfer function of the system is K(jw) then in order to find the crossing point with imaginary axis you solve Re(K(jw)) = 0 and substitute the solution for omega in Im(K(jw)) the question is: What if there is more than just 1 solution of Re(K(jw)) = 0 ?!
07:00 Jak_o_Shadows er
07:00 Jak_o_Shadows so you're finding the roots
07:03 aethersis yes
07:03 aethersis but what if there are 2 roots?
07:03 aethersis or 10 roots?
07:03 Jak_o_Shadows I have no idea what to do in a nyquist plot
07:03 Jak_o_Shadows My approach would be to draw the root locus
07:03 aethersis I have to learn to draw them by hand
07:03 Jak_o_Shadows but er, i'd never heard of a nyquist plot
07:07 aethersis thanks anyway
07:49 deshipu Veverak: not yet
07:51 Veverak deshipu: looking forward to it :)
10:24 Tom_itx zlog
10:50 Tom_itx what are the 2 threaded holes in the arcol v4 heating element holder for?
10:51 Tom_itx i don't see that he used them on his page
11:17 rue_more ?
11:17 rue_more on one end?
11:20 Tom_itx the aluminum part the heater goes thru, there are 2 threaded holes on the flat
11:21 Tom_itx what are they for?
11:21 rue_more maybe its to hold in the heater, image?
11:21 Tom_itx http://www.flickr.com/photos/48806889@N05/6707929039/
11:22 Tom_itx thread size and spacing?
11:22 Tom_itx modeling it in solidworks...
11:22 rue_more dont know
11:22 rue_more I think those are grub screws for the heater
11:23 Tom_itx i don't see a side view of it to know
11:23 Tom_itx what's the heater hole size again? i forgot
11:23 rue_more https://www.flickr.com/photos/48806889@N05/6708746063/in/photostream/
11:23 rue_more beats me
11:24 Tom_itx he doesn't use them on his page
11:24 rue_more its not for hte heater
11:24 Tom_itx what's the side hole size for the heater?
11:24 Tom_itx 5mm?
11:25 rue_more I can measure, hold up
11:25 Tom_itx 3mm?
11:25 rue_more I'm sick as a dog
11:25 rue_more flu/cold
11:25 rue_more need to go hang a sign on the shop incase nobody got my messages
11:31 rue_more the heater _is_ 6mm
11:31 rue_more so 6mm is prolly a press-fit, 1/4" is loose
11:31 Tom_itx ok
11:31 Tom_itx so drill 1/4 or 6mm?
11:33 rue_more 1/4 with locking mechanism
11:33 rue_more mine is pressed in
11:34 rue_more I wonder where I got the 1/2" aluminum plate I made mine from
11:38 Tom_itx how wide is the heater?
11:38 Tom_itx well, how wide is the heater block?
11:53 rue_more hmm
11:53 rue_more its out there and I'm in here
12:53 robertj hey all, anyone here built their own 40k+ water-jet?
12:57 Veverak hmm
12:57 Veverak I suppose
12:58 Veverak if I would made delta robot strrong and stiff enough
12:58 Veverak I should be able to use direct extrusion on that
14:10 deshipu why not regular jet?
14:14 robertj deshipu, you mean regular air abrasive jet?
14:53 katsmeow-afk https://github.com/openworm/OpenWorm/milestones <<== mapped the neurons in a worm brain, simulated them in software on a robot, robot was not programmed, but robot acted like a worm
14:53 rue_more reading...
14:53 rue_more commenting...
14:53 rue_more I saw that, just think the neurons must be there for it to want to get frisky with other robots
14:53 rue_more idle...
14:54 rue_more going to blow my nose...
14:55 ace4016 interesting, she still comes around....though brief :P
14:55 rue_more she gone aleardy?
14:56 ace4016 yup
17:25 armyofevilrobots Hey rue_more rue_shop4 Looks like they are out of red: http://seacans.com/collections/pla/3-00mm
17:25 armyofevilrobots What would you like to get? I am ordering today.
17:42 armyofevilrobots Bah, sleep is too fast on this stupid thing. @rue_house rue_shop4 If you responded, could you re-send^
18:20 rue_more ok hold up
18:21 armyofevilrobots Aha, you’re there :)
18:24 rue_more sick as a dog
18:25 rue_more 1x http://seacans.com/collections/pla/products/pla-black-3mm-1kg
18:25 rue_more ..
18:25 armyofevilrobots I already had that one down :)
18:26 rue_more cant find...
18:26 rue_more red blue 3mm pla...
18:27 rue_more they dont have any
18:28 rue_more uhh...
18:28 rue_more drat
18:29 armyofevilrobots Sorry man :(
18:29 armyofevilrobots I am digging around but the seacans place is the cheapest I have seen so far.
18:29 rue_more np, i'll go with black then
18:30 rue_more my head broke the head, and I'm gonna have to buy one
18:30 rue_more it just will not work again
18:30 rue_more I'm wondering if I should switch to 1.75...
18:32 rue_more lets get me a 3mm black, and I'll figure out whats gouing on
18:32 armyofevilrobots alright. Sure you don’t want to switch? :)
18:33 rue_more well, I dont want to hold you up while I head-shop
18:34 Tom_itx rue_more,
18:34 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/reprap/arcol_v4.jpg
18:35 armyofevilrobots http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ALL-matal-Jhead-J-head-Hotend-for-1-75mm-3-0mm-E3D-Bowden-Extruder-0-2mm/2041998945.html
18:35 armyofevilrobots $8.20 free shipping all metal hot end.
18:35 rue_more oo
18:36 rue_more bowden...
18:37 Tom_itx what are the holes in the side of the element holder for?
18:37 Tom_itx one is the thermocouple
18:37 Tom_itx what are the other two
18:37 Tom_itx ?
18:38 armyofevilrobots No idea.
18:38 rue_more looks like it dosn't have to be used as bowden
18:38 Tom_itx nobody uses those?
18:38 armyofevilrobots But I like the through hole for the thermistor.
18:38 armyofevilrobots You can order either way. They supply either depending on what you request.
18:38 armyofevilrobots You can say (bowden|direct) and (1.75|3.0)
18:39 armyofevilrobots Oh, and .2-.4 diameter, but I would always recommend larger.
18:39 Tom_itx that's pretty friggin cheap
18:39 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: bowden makes ooze and speed changes a huge problem because the tube essentially creates a large spring between the extruder and the melt chamber
18:39 armyofevilrobots That’s true. They’re just nice for light extruders.
18:39 Triffid_Hunter the advantage is you get the extruder's mass off your effector/carriage which allows higher speeds
18:40 Tom_itx advantage of which?
18:40 armyofevilrobots I have switched to a large .8mm extruder nozzle, and now speed isn’t an issue (everything is 30mm/s) because the hot end can barely keep up with the plastic flowing through.
18:40 rue_more aren't the plastic thermal break heads betteR?
18:40 armyofevilrobots That is a thermal break head.
18:40 Tom_itx Triffid_Hunter, what's the distance between the threads on the SS thinwall tube?
18:41 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: I've been using the all-metal arcol v4 for ages, it's wonderful
18:41 rue_more ok
18:41 rue_more with pla?
18:41 armyofevilrobots It’s hard to see in the photo, but the stainless center is milled down. I have 2 of these.
18:41 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: it's M10 SS with a 3.17mm hole down the center and the thin walls are 50µm thick
18:41 Tom_itx right but how long is the thinwall tube
18:41 Tom_itx between the two threads
18:42 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: both PLA and ABS, behaves flawlessly. only time I've ever had problems is with ABS that was >3.15mm (complained to supplier) and when my hyena's teeth were breaking off and falling into the melt
18:42 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: ah, umm looks like about 10mm
18:42 Tom_itx Triffid_Hunter, also on the heatsink... is the hole for the teflon a thru hole that diameter?
18:42 armyofevilrobots There is a trick to conditioning the hot end for PLA that might help if you have problems. Dip 2” of pla in crisco (not kidding), and extrude it through real slow. It makes the stainless non-stick, for a few weeks.
18:43 Tom_itx so the overall length of the SS part is about 30mm
18:43 Tom_itx counting 10mm per threaded side
18:43 Tom_itx sounds about right
18:44 rue_more im only half here im on the phone
18:46 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: http://wiki.arcol.hu/arcol-hu-hot-end-v4-assembly <-- there's some good pics here, he used to have CAD drawings up but looks like they've been pulled
18:46 rue_more over 2 days I rebuilt my head 8 times
18:46 Tom_itx yeah, i've had that up while i was drawing it
18:47 rue_more I dont want to make anymore heads right now
18:47 Tom_itx rue_more i don't blame you
18:47 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: there's a surprising amount of work that's gone into modern hot-ends, don't underestimate how many little corner cases they already handle with no obvious mechanism ;)
18:47 Tom_itx i did this just to have things modeled up so things would fit
18:47 rue_more but it worked
18:47 rue_more it worked great
18:47 rue_more pla, no liner
18:48 Tom_itx but was it reliable?
18:48 rue_more yea
18:48 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: sure, until the heat creeps up and the PLA in the thermal break exceeds 60°C, then boom! instant jam ;)
18:48 rue_more it had just hit the point where I could *just* print
18:48 rue_more then the glass shattered
18:48 Triffid_Hunter heh ouch
18:49 Triffid_Hunter maybe glass isn't such a great material? the pressures in the melt are immense
18:49 rue_more quartz
18:49 rue_more 4x better than stainless :)
18:49 Triffid_Hunter just for reference, our extruders are so strong that if you hang the spool above your printer and it tangles, the extruder will actually lift the entire printer off the table and climb up the filament
18:49 rue_more I cant understand why it wont work
18:49 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/reprap/arcol_v4a.jpg
18:49 Triffid_Hunter and they *must* be that strong or they slip and grind and generally misbehave
18:49 Tom_itx cut the center distance down to 10mm there
18:50 Triffid_Hunter even oven glass may not hold up particularly well against that sort of inexorable force ;)
18:50 rue_more I'm on the phone, I have to go back and read *everythign*
18:52 rue_more when the head is working, it dosnt take much pressure to get plastic out
18:52 Tom_itx Triffid_Hunter do you know what those 2 threaded holes are for on the heater block?
18:52 Triffid_Hunter Tom_itx: I put my thermistor in one of them
18:53 Tom_itx i was gonna add a hole by the 2 radius'd corners beside the nozzle
18:53 Tom_itx how long are the thermistors?
18:53 Tom_itx i suppose it could stick out the side if i did that...
18:55 rue_more ? is the head generic or size specific?
18:55 wolfmanjm it seem smost hotends require you to specify 3mm or 1.75
18:56 wolfmanjm I know the jhead is different fo rboth and the hexagon and the e3d
18:56 Tom_itx it would be nice to know the flange mounting dimensions too
18:58 rue_more but all these listings say 1.75/3 without letting me specify
18:58 Tom_itx for the J head?
18:59 rue_more yea
18:59 rue_more ok I'm off the phone, hold up and I have to go back and re-read everything and work this out
18:59 Tom_itx for that price maybe you should get a couple of em
19:06 rue_more for 8 a 3 and a 1.75
19:06 rue_more but I cant see how to get what I want
19:07 Tom_itx add a note to the order when you process it
19:07 Tom_itx Noted :
19:07 Tom_itx 1.Please tell us what size of nozzle you need,0.2mm 0.3mm 0.4mm,3 siezs
19:07 Tom_itx 2. please tell us what kind of feeder you need ,long distance feeder or short distance feeder
19:07 Tom_itx 3.Please tell us which filament you want,1.75mm or 3.0mm
19:07 Tom_itx otherwise , we will send you randomly
19:08 rue_more tom, in a bowden system the filament drive is moved to being off the carrige
19:09 Tom_itx yeah
19:09 Tom_itx like for delta bots?
19:09 rue_more I'd like to be able to change the nozzel tip, for size changes
19:09 Tom_itx looks like you can do that with the arcol one
19:11 rue_more well maybe I should just try feeding my head crisco
19:13 Tom_itx http://wiki.arcol.hu/manual:hotend-v42-assembly
19:13 Tom_itx ver 4.2
19:14 rue_more ok I read everything
19:16 rue_more Tom_itx, that stainless section is 6mm thread?
19:17 rue_more that $8 head has a replacable nozzel
19:17 rue_more but I also know it requires extreame cooling
19:17 Tom_itx Triffid_Hunter said it was 10mm thread
19:17 rue_more ah ok
19:17 rue_more that makes more sense
19:17 Tom_itx and i figured each one would be about 10mm long
19:18 Tom_itx with a 10mm thin section between
19:18 rue_more my head is pounding, I have to rest more, and I'll work out and order a head
19:18 Tom_itx i've had a headache all day
19:18 rue_more I wonder if I can get a 10mm stainless bolt at the harware store
19:18 Tom_itx i'm sure
19:19 rue_more Tom_itx, mine comes with a really drippy nose, sour throat, and host of other things :)
19:19 Tom_itx also a bit of teflon tube
19:19 Tom_itx nope, just the headache
19:19 rue_more wait, IS or isn't it lined?
19:20 rue_more I swear, if all I have to do is stick crisco in my head to get it working...
19:20 Tom_itx which one?
19:20 rue_more the stainless one
19:20 rue_more $8
19:20 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: the thermal break/SS barrel is not lined, there's a small slug of teflon at the top to apply pressure to the top end of the SS barrel
19:20 Tom_itx oh i have no idea
19:20 Tom_itx the teflon just holds the SS part in place
19:20 Triffid_Hunter if you're talking about the arcol v4 that is, which frankly is priced beyond sanity
19:20 Tom_itx yeah
19:21 Tom_itx fairly easy to model and build though
19:21 Triffid_Hunter ~US$100 for that, when thejollygrimreaper is selling his aluhotend for ~$40? craziness
19:21 Tom_itx i think all reprap parts are overpriced
19:21 Tom_itx because they sell
19:22 rue_more Triffid_Hunter, armyofevilrobots hey, if I try to print too fast, will the head jam up?
19:22 Tom_itx if the thermal properties of the heater can't keep up it will
19:22 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: no, usually the back-pressure causes your extruder to grind which has the same symptoms of a jam, except it can recover when you slow down
19:22 Triffid_Hunter yeah, also if the heater can't keep up it'll cause the extruder to grind from back-pressure
19:23 Triffid_Hunter I run my nozzle heater at 45w, works great :)
19:23 rue_more hmmm
19:24 rue_more the last few tests i recall saying to the printer "no! why you going so fast!?" hmmmm
19:24 rue_more it was working so well i think i decided to push it a bit
19:25 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: mine's currently pushing 40mm^3 per second at the moment, no worries at all.
19:26 rue_more I need to start a journal is setting changes
19:26 rue_more i found out my .4mm head is really .38
19:26 Triffid_Hunter that won't matter much I think
19:26 rue_more i dont know what volume tho
19:26 Triffid_Hunter mine's supposed to be 0.35, never measured it
19:27 rue_more its only when I pulled out a plug of plastic I could
19:27 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: extrusion width * layer height * feedrate == mm^3/s
19:27 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: so for eg I'm printing 0.6 width, 0.25 height @ 200mm/s with 130% speed override
19:27 Triffid_Hunter 0.6 * 0.25 * 200 * 1.3 = 39.0mm^3/s
19:27 e_more
19:27 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: notice that nozzle diameter doesn't appear ;)
19:28 rue_more I HAVE TO GO LIE IN BED FOR A WHILE, ARG
19:28 Triffid_Hunter lol, math + headache = rage?
19:29 rue_more I'm also taking time out from the printer, as, for now, I'v had enough with it
19:29 rue_more I gotta wonder, tho
19:29 RifRaf taken over your life rue?
19:29 Triffid_Hunter yeah that happens a lot, better to take a rest than to take a hammer to it ;)
19:29 rue_more if, after a certain amount of time the quartz developed a narutal lining of oil fromt he plastic
19:30 Triffid_Hunter rue_more: if the plastic has oil in it, complain to your supplier
19:30 rue_more it seems i was prolly running it hot, about 190-200c
19:30 rue_more it jameed a lot when i first started, as time passed it got better
19:31 rue_more when it borke it was perfect
19:31 rue_more I didn't even have to worry about if the print would work or not
19:31 Triffid_Hunter maybe the glass was slowly tempering from the heat or somehing?
19:31 rue_more tho I had to extrude about 12mm beofre hand to close up the air bubble int eh tip
19:31 rue_more Triffid_Hunter, no, its quartz
19:32 rue_more it really couldn't have cared less about a measley 200c
19:32 rue_more from a halogen lamp
19:33 rue_more I think it broke because the metal peice it was sitting on wasn't smooth, and it was in too tight
19:33 rue_more it got pinched and the metal base hit it in a way to fracture it
19:33 rue_more oh I have my camera here, 1 min
19:33 RifRaf you broke your quartz magic parts?
19:34 rue_more magic is the key word, after being repaired, it would not work
19:34 rue_more spent 2 days continiously rebuilding it
19:34 rue_more jammed every time
19:34 RifRaf ouch, shoulda been out here fishing
19:34 rue_more wellll, with the 1mm it was kinda ok
19:34 Tom_itx what's the standard pitch on a 10mm thread?
19:34 rue_more hmm
19:34 Tom_itx 1.0 1.5 or 1.25
19:35 rue_more internet isn't gonna help on that one
19:35 RifRaf 1. at least
19:35 rue_more I'd hav to go measure one
19:35 m_itx w
19:35 RifRaf 1.five
19:35 RifRaf i have no five working
19:36 rue_more I dont eat fish
19:36 RifRaf 1.50 standard 1.25 fine
19:37 rue_more I'm uploading images
19:37 RifRaf rue_house they love being let go as well, but i do eat some, been eatinglots
19:38 rue_more http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/reprap/p1060993.jpg <--- eeeeek!
19:38 RifRaf its raining today but, lucky i have internets in the tent
19:38 rue_more http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/reprap/p1060994.jpg <-- new SS seat bolt
19:38 rue_more http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/reprap/p1060996.jpg <-- rebuilt head, v1
19:39 RifRaf ouch, that when it broke?
19:39 rue_more I kept rebuilding it, tried going back to this and that and the other, NOTHING would work, jammed up every time
19:39 rue_more yea
19:39 RifRaf maybe you should try a standard design
19:39 rue_more more than 1kg of plastic thru that head before that happened
19:39 RifRaf easy to make on lathe
19:40 rue_more RifRaf, I spent 2 days rebuilding, the head again and again, I dont want to make any more heads right now
19:40 RifRaf ok
19:40 wolfmanjm rue_more: Iwould noit recommend that hotend.. first it is NOT a jhead nothing like one. if you want a jhead get a genuine one from hotends.com, I have heard noithin gbut problems from peole gettin gchinese clones that claim to be jheads.
19:40 rue_more wolfmanjm, yes, i should spend $50 on every part for my reprap
19:40 rue_more because that what everyone does
19:41 RifRaf heh obviously buying one is easier but this is rue
19:41 wolfmanjm yea a realk jhead is mor eexpensive, but it is from the guy that invented them, and you get what you pay for
19:41 rue_more if you dont march in time with the army, you will be shot
19:41 rue_more even if your not in the army
19:41 rue_more p.s. I'm glad you have so much disposable income!
19:41 rue_more :/
19:41 wolfmanjm not at all I am all for doin git yourself, but if you want a reliable hotend then from experience you need one that is made properly
19:42 rue_more mine WORKED!
19:42 Tom_itx rue_more is a sniper not a soldier
19:42 rue_more great!
19:42 RifRaf sorta kinda
19:42 wolfmanjm my jheads have never failed ever. All the others have failed at on etime or another.. just sayin
19:42 Tom_itx RifRaf, did you see the model i did of the arcol?
19:42 rue_more wolfmanjm, you have never had a jam?
19:43 wolfmanjm not in either of the genuine jheads
19:43 wolfmanjm plenty of jams in the others
19:43 rue_more wolfmanjm, how much money do you have into your current machine?
19:43 RifRaf Tom_itx nope
19:43 wolfmanjm nto exactly sure I built 4
19:43 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/reprap/arcol_v4a.jpg
19:43 rue_more my machine is at $200
19:43 rue_more $300 with 2kg of plastic
19:44 wolfmanjm I get a lot of freabies as I am the mani Smoothie developer and people like to send me stuff but before that I spent probably $300 per printer
19:44 rue_more from what I see, thats pretty damn good
19:44 RifRaf Tom_itx make one for rue
19:44 wolfmanjm (I overtook Triffid_Hunter as main contributer a minth back ;)
19:44 wolfmanjm sorry Triffid_Hunter ;)
19:44 RifRaf haha
19:44 rue_more heh, how is that measured?
19:45 Tom_itx you get nothing for contributing here!
19:45 wolfmanjm github
19:45 rue_more I hope its not number of code lines added
19:45 wolfmanjm it is more commits
19:45 rue_more ah
19:45 rue_more I really have to go lay down :/
19:46 wolfmanjm https://github.com/Smoothieware/Smoothieware/graphs/contributors
19:46 wolfmanjm but I also scrimp and save and reuse parts, I am retired so no income
19:46 wolfmanjm buit somethings I simp;luycan;t build myself, and hotends is one of them
19:46 wolfmanjm I tried ;)
19:48 wolfmanjm I spent quite a bit on various hotends too, seems I always regret that, as I end up using the jheads again and again ;)
19:49 wolfmanjm Volcano was the latest disappointment I may never learn :)
19:50 RifRaf j-heads are great, am mainly using aluhotends here though as they are more local
19:52 wolfmanjm Yea I have a few of the older aluhotends... the ptfe lined ones worked ok
19:52 RifRaf yep mainly old one here too now, though one of the latest should be waiting at home when i get back
19:53 wolfmanjm but I did have a problem getting stable temps on the aluhotend, got +/- 5°C drifts, whereas on the jhead I get +/-0.2°C
19:55 wolfmanjm (and yea I did tune the PID)
19:56 RifRaf thats a big difference, mine stay within +-1 degree generally, and i like the smaller melt zone, for doing filament swapping
19:57 wolfmanjm it seems to get worse as you push more filament through at higher speeds
19:57 wolfmanjm haven;t used mine in a while though, i did replace the heater block with a solid copper one, it helped with the temp deviations
20:15 rue_house snot drainings are down to 5 minute intervals now, ugh
20:16 rue_house wolfmanjm, I have a lathe, so not building my own hotends should be a punishable crime
20:17 wolfmanjm rue_house: I have one too, but I know my limitations ;)
20:17 wolfmanjm also hotends are more magic than science
20:17 Tom_itx you'll never expand your limitations until you go beyond them a few times
20:17 rue_house so I see
20:18 rue_house I varried all the paramiters I could think of to try to get my hotend to work again
20:18 rue_house I cant understand the design flaw
20:18 rue_house I been looking and thinking alot about how a glue gun works
20:18 rue_house because, near as I can figure, its the same game
20:19 rue_house technically, the temp range isn't even that different
20:19 rue_house and what about those 3d pens? how did they do those?
20:19 rue_house wolfmanjm, did a copper block heater help?
20:20 rue_house oh you said it did
20:20 rue_house maybe I'll try a silver one, there must be a way to show you lot up :
20:20 rue_house )\
20:20 wolfmanjm it helped stabilize the temperature, but it did not transfer the heat to the meltzone any better, I guess copper to brass is not that a good a conductor
20:20 rue_house ah
20:21 rue_house oooh
20:21 wolfmanjm An all copper hotend and nozzle would be nice
20:21 rue_house maybe thats where the teflon tape comesin
20:21 rue_house copper is a stickey metal thats hard to work with
20:22 wolfmanjm I seal the threads with a metal conductive thread sealant
20:22 rue_house k
20:22 wolfmanjm so that should help with cinductivity
20:22 rue_house what about tapered thermal breaks?
20:22 rue_house what if it got larger as it went down?
20:22 wolfmanjm but still there is an issue with flow, but it appears even hotends designed for high flow rates don;t do so well either
20:23 rue_house I couldn't find any temperature to viscosity charts for pla
20:23 rue_house I'd like to see the numbers at the nozzel
20:23 rue_house see how much pressure you need to generate for flow
20:23 wolfmanjm http://jheadnozzle.blogspot.com/ http://reprap.org/wiki/J_Head_Nozzle those are good resources you can see all the iterations he went through and why
20:24 rue_house ah cool, more pennies for the wishing well
20:24 wolfmanjm all the way from Mk1 to Mk8
20:26 wolfmanjm it is funny I have come full circle... the very first thing Triffid_Hunter told me on IRC was you can; tprint at high speeds due to the hotends inability to keep the PLA melted, that was over 2 years ago.
20:26 wolfmanjm now I am back at the same spot, for different reasons
20:26 rue_house huh, I wonder if leakage at the temp change region is a technical issue, mine leaked a tiny bit at the transition
20:26 wolfmanjm I'm not so much into speed, but large nozzles, but the same gotcha
20:27 rue_house in comparison, a glue gun has a much larger zone of temperature in the melting region
20:27 rue_house and a much harder thermal falloff
20:30 rue_house industrial machines seperate the material feed, and pumping systems
20:30 rue_house one motor feeds in the plastic, a different motor pushes it out the die
20:32 rue_house haha, sounds like nobody can get their head to stop leaking
20:32 rue_house "copper washer" :)
20:32 wolfmanjm I used something like this http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-anti-seize/permatex--copper-anti-seize-lubricant-31163-detail
20:33 wolfmanjm although mine was not copper I think it was silver
20:33 rue_house has ANYONE put a thermal fuse on their hot end?
20:33 Tom_itx i've used that on other things before
20:34 rue_house nice maluable copper washer to seal the surfaces
20:34 wolfmanjm I put a thermal fuse on my 24v self made heated bed
20:34 rue_house good thing...
20:35 wolfmanjm yea 400watts :)
20:35 rue_house if a reprap were a standard commercial projejct, they would be req'd to have thermal fuses..
20:35 wolfmanjm although once I ran all the nichrome wire it ended up more around 300W
20:36 rue_house I had to use 30 guage copper wire on mine
20:36 rue_house I think it comes out about 104W
20:36 wolfmanjm I use that as the bus bars to crimp the nichrome to
20:36 wolfmanjm actually it was bigger than that
20:37 wolfmanjm the bus bars
20:37 wolfmanjm the bed is 12"x12"
20:37 rue_house I couldn't find any nichrome with low enough resistance
20:37 wolfmanjm I had to run several loops in parallel to get the corect resitance
20:37 rue_house mine is two parallel runs at 12VAC, whats yours?
20:37 wolfmanjm I have like 4 parallel runs of nichrome at 24v
20:37 wolfmanjm DC
20:38 rue_house yea, thats about what I was ending up at with nichrome
20:38 rue_house I decided to use AC beasue there is no point wasting regulated dc on a heater!
20:38 wolfmanjm it heats up well for PLA, I don't think I can get it hot enough for ABS though
20:38 wolfmanjm yea I had a 400watt 24v PSU
20:39 rue_house 20x20?
20:39 rue_house 400w should be more than enough from what I'v heard
20:39 wolfmanjm yea it would be, but it actually came out to less than 300w, I think I screwed up the parallel loops
20:40 rue_house I went thru a lot of fun finding the point to tap the middle
20:40 wolfmanjm or the nichrome was not the advertised resistance :)
20:40 rue_house nor was my 30 guage copper
20:40 rue_house which I used 5m of by the math to get more than 100w
20:41 wolfmanjm but it works well enough for PLA
20:42 wolfmanjm I spenmt so much time on that bed, it would have been cheaper to buy a silcon heater pad
20:43 wolfmanjm there is always this tradeoff between DIY and the time, and the cost of buying it instead
20:44 rue_house but the research is opportunity to end up with someting way better
20:44 rue_house I used a mirror for my bed, I figure the silver/aluminum coating will help spread heat
20:45 wolfmanjm yea I use mirror too, $10 for 6x 12"x12" mirror tile formhome depot!
20:45 rue_house at work we have a flir camera, maybe I can take a shot when I have things working
20:46 rue_house glass cutter and salvation army, $2 (already had the cutter)
20:46 wolfmanjm I broke a few getting prints off, but WTH $10 for 6 ;)
20:46 rue_house oh 6, hah
20:46 wolfmanjm yea home depot has them in six packs for $10
20:47 wolfmanjm way flatter than the expensive Boro glass I got for my first printe
20:47 wolfmanjm printer
20:47 rue_house do you think a 30cm part would print ok on a heated bed?
20:47 wolfmanjm even if I break 4 packs I'll break even
20:48 wolfmanjm Maybe, I have had a lot of problems getting the edges to not curl up with anything bigger than 150mm though
20:49 wolfmanjm The best I have done is with blue tape wiped with isopropyl alcohol, then it pulls the blue tape off thebed :)
20:49 wolfmanjm or sticks so hard I have to use a hammer and chisel to get it off
20:50 wolfmanjm really large surface areas are hard to keep from curling
20:51 wolfmanjm there are several techniques you can try, one is to make the bottom layer a grid of islands
20:51 wolfmanjm so the lengths are broken up into shorter runs so the shrinking forces when it cols are spread out
20:52 armyofevilrobots armyof
20:52 armyofevilrobots bah. stupid new client.
20:55 rue_house hmm
20:55 rue_house I tried blue tape, horrid compared to green tape
20:55 Triffid_Hunter for PLA, you can't beat a thin layer of PVA wood glue
20:56 armyofevilrobots hairspray (unscented) is pretty good too.
20:56 rue_house armyofevilrobots, isnt the glue what tore the bed paart for you?
20:56 armyofevilrobots but yeah, wood glue is pretty good.
20:57 armyofevilrobots I have had a couple of beds spall glass out from wood glue and pla.
21:05 rue_house armyofevilrobots, oh I wanted to say I loved the text caption on the cookie cutter!
21:07 armyofevilrobots glad you liked it.
21:07 armyofevilrobots :)
21:08 rue_house oh drat, I didn't take a pic of the friction welded dodecohedron
21:09 rue_house that worked pretty good, takes skill tho!
21:10 rue_house low speed on the dremel
21:11 rue_house about a 4-5cm peice fits down in there and you can slide it forward as its consumed
21:48 armyofevilrobots rue_house: 3mm black ordered.
23:21 Tom_itx haha
23:21 Tom_itx i figured out how to draw a thread
23:42 ShH_Lap pats Tom
23:45 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/reprap/Test_thread.jpg
23:45 Jak_o_Shadows err, I thought most CAD packages would have a thread tool
23:45 Tom_itx http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/reprap/arcol_v4a.jpg
23:45 Tom_itx no not that i know of
23:46 Jak_o_Shadows Hmm, well inventor does.
23:46 Tom_itx i'm just fiddling around learning anyway
23:47 Jak_o_Shadows Yeah. At the moment i'm doing something similar with LaTeX
23:47 GuShH_Lap hawtendo
23:47 Tom_itx i had most of that done in about an hour or so
23:47 Tom_itx the thread took a bit
23:48 Tom_itx figuring out how to make the assembly took a bit
23:48 Jak_o_Shadows thread is revolving a pattern somehow?
23:48 Tom_itx i did a helix with a pattern yes
23:50 wolfmanjm openscad has a thread library
23:50 wolfmanjm but only really works for big threads
23:50 Jak_o_Shadows I find openscad freaking aweful, but that's personal preference
23:51 Tom_itx i normally wouldn't draw a thread
23:51 Tom_itx just an exercise
23:51 wolfmanjm yea that is th edifference between an artist and a programmer, I can only use openscad I can; tuse the visual cads :)
23:52 wolfmanjm I've used openscad to print several leadscrew nuts, even multistart ones, and actually use them
23:52 Jak_o_Shadows I am moving to a more number driven way of using them though
23:52 wolfmanjm have you seen solvespace?
23:53 wolfmanjm kinda interesting, it is like on the fence between openscad and a real 3d cad program
23:53 Jak_o_Shadows oh for petes sake, another open source cad package.
23:53 Jak_o_Shadows combine your effort
23:53 wolfmanjm entirely contraint based
23:54 wolfmanjm no we need lots, eventually someone will get it right ;)
23:54 Tom_itx i doubt it
23:54 wolfmanjm personally I love openscad, done a tin of things in it
23:55 wolfmanjm "programming" 3d objects is more the way I think
23:55 wolfmanjm but then I can;t draw a straight line
23:55 Jak_o_Shadows these open source ones just need to get their freaking UI right
23:55 Jak_o_Shadows freecad I find really hard to use
23:55 Tom_itx i've done both but i honestly hate openscad
23:57 Jak_o_Shadows My problem with openscad is that it feels like a bad programming lnguage