#robotics Logs

Sep 05 2014

00:23 mrdata nice
00:59 MrCurious anonnumberanon: i had no idea you were religious
00:59 anonnumberanon don't be so furious
00:59 anonnumberanon lol
00:59 anonnumberanon I meant curious
01:00 MrCurious heard joan rivers died today. i have a theory... all th procedures she had to slow aging... i think they caught up with her, and the last one stopped the aging and placed her into a state of stasis
01:00 MrCurious a few more procedures and she should re-animate and reverse age
01:01 MrCurious i know, i know, too soon, but i will be damned if that isnt exactly the type of humor she had
01:04 anonnumberanon WELL she's really dumb she should have created a business that rewrites human genetics, instead she paid to get her skin cut up and rearranged, worse roi ever
01:04 MrCurious now you are with her sense of humor!
09:45 rue_more http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-05/joan-rivers-jokes-photos-quotes/5722294
09:46 rue_more I have to go to work...
10:06 darsie hi
10:10 darsie https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.robotics.misc/f-HtSabnJwA
10:10 darsie Although I'm not sure how much sense it makes and how useful it might be, I find space colonization cool. I think, rather than building space ships and sending humans to space to build space colonies it might be better to send self replicating machines and build colonies and space ships and then send humans there and use them. So the question is, how far are we from building self replicating mach
10:15 deshipu gray goo \o/
10:15 deshipu let's fill the universe with it!
10:15 deshipu also, you got cut off at "how far are we from building self replicating mach
10:16 deshipu well, I would say we are pretty far in the bush
10:16 darsie ines? [0]
10:16 deshipu reprap can't even print its own motors
10:16 deshipu not to mention semiconductors
10:17 darsie I wrote more in my comp.robotics.misc post.
10:17 deshipu that's splendid, I'm sure someone will read it there and comment on it
10:18 darsie We are about to make automatic semiconductor fabs.
10:18 deshipu at the moment we can't even reliably build a machine that would work without maintenance for a year
10:18 darsie Then it needs maintenence.
10:18 deshipu that's why the Viking probes are such a huge thing
10:21 darsie There's also the option to supply semiconductors from earth.
10:21 deshipu or whole robots :)
10:22 darsie Yeah, but they are much more difficult to ship than semiconductors.
10:23 deshipu the difficulty is not in shipping, we have that solved, the difficulty is with assembling and operating them remotely, and that's much easier with an assembled robot
10:24 deshipu especially when you can greatly cut costs by testing it *before* shipping
10:25 darsie Well, well, we managed to send robots to Mars, but that wasn't easy or cheap.
10:25 deshipu you want to minimize the number of things that could potentially go wrong after the launch
10:25 deshipu building them on mars would have been much more expensive
10:25 deshipu several orders of magnitude
10:26 deshipu and that's with ready robots specialized for that task only
10:26 darsie Yep, but they would grow exponentially, and eventually surpass the cost of shipping all the locally replicated stuff.
10:27 deshipu the costs, yes, they would grow exponentially and eventually surpass anything
10:28 deshipu darsie: maybe you could start with a simple exercise just to give you a fell about the difficulty of the task -- try to design a robot that would assemble its own copy from ready modules
10:30 deshipu to make it even easier, let's say you can even control it remotely, it doesn't have to be autonomous
10:31 darsie It's already happening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lights_out_%28manufacturing%29#Existing_.22lights-out_factories.22
10:31 deshipu that's something else, they have specialized robots
10:31 darsie right
10:34 Tom_itx eventually you would run out of energy to ship things
10:34 deshipu eventually is a very long time
10:34 Tom_itx and if you sent earth resources to space you would run out of them too
10:34 deshipu that's why you don't send robots, you send humans with tools
10:35 darsie But assembly from modules isn't such a big problem, I think. You can make the modules so robots can easily handle them and plug them together.
10:35 deshipu who can mine resources and build robots
10:35 deshipu darsie: go ahead and try it
10:35 Tom_itx send useless ones so if something goes wrong we don't have to pay to keep them like we do now
10:35 darsie Nah, to difficult for me ;).
10:35 deshipu darsie: it's the super-easy version, see how hard it is
10:36 deshipu then multiply that by several orders of magnitude for the real thing
10:36 deshipu and then do the jump from '30 days without supervision' to 'fully automated'
10:36 darsie I think prospecting for raw materials, mining and processing is more difficult.
10:37 deshipu yes
10:37 deshipu that's why I proposed the simplest part first
10:38 deshipu actually mining is not that hard, and I think we are going to have that
10:38 Tom_itx just look what early settlers of any country went through and multiply that by a factor of 10
10:38 deshipu mining the asteroids
10:38 deshipu but not unsupervised
10:39 deshipu and making new humans is much cheaper than making new robots ;)
10:39 darsie Yeah, some level of cooperation with humans is ok.
10:39 deshipu then of course you never want them to be fully autonomous
10:40 deshipu so thet you don't get silly things like "cooperation" and stay with the healthy "tool-user" relationship :)
10:40 darsie Not really. They need to be told when and where to build habitats for humans, space ships, etc.
10:41 deshipu by the way, if you dream about an autonomous, independent robot colony, it's much easier to try it on earth first
10:41 darsie Yeah.
10:41 darsie But there is the problem that they can't just go anywhere and dig for raw materials, cutting down trees or destroying houses.
10:42 deshipu neither they can in the space
10:42 deshipu even if you just ignore the glaring lack of trees and houses in there
10:42 darsie Yeah, they should not destroy their factories while searching for minerals.
10:43 deshipu or themselves
10:43 Tom_itx live under the ocean
10:43 Tom_itx plenty of room there
10:43 deshipu buy a piece of land and constrain them to it
10:43 darsie Plenty of wildlife there, too.
10:43 Tom_itx dust off atlantis and refurbish it
10:43 darsie Dunno where it is.
10:44 Tom_itx in the ocean silly
10:44 deshipu good thing you have those robots so good at finding things, that they can consistently find materials for more of them
10:45 deshipu or you could use the egyptian dinosaurs from the bible that ufo kidnapped
10:52 darsie So, what's your guess at how long it might take us to make replicants on Moon/Mars/asteroid belt? 10 years? 50?
10:53 darsie With a similar dedication as we build LHC, ISS or do fusion research.
11:36 deshipu darsie: it's impossible to tell, because the rate of progress changes so fast in such inpredictable ways
11:37 deshipu darsie: we had great progress in the technical areas for the last 100 years, but now it's slowing down
11:37 deshipu hopefully the non-technical areas will catch up now
11:40 darsie k
11:41 darsie So, you wouldn't rule out 10 years? :)
11:46 deshipu for what I know, in 10 years humanity might be extinct
11:46 deshipu why, are you writing a science-fiction novel?
11:46 darsie nope
11:49 darsie I just think space travel could be much more economical if it wasn't so much earth based.
11:50 Hyratel1 darsie, go on Espernet #KSPOfficial if you want detailed talk about that
11:50 deshipu I think space travel would be much more economical if there actually was anything worth traveling to out there :)
11:50 Hyratel1 deshipu, aha, now you see the bootstrap problem
11:50 deshipu "worth" in the economical sense
11:51 GargantuaSauce pretty sure unprecedented supplies of platinum, ruthenium, etc are economically appealing
11:51 deshipu GargantuaSauce: not if getting to them and bringing them home takes more than they are worth
11:52 deshipu especially when we have those slave labour mines in Africa
11:53 deshipu and China
11:53 deshipu humans are the cheapest robots
11:53 darsie on earth
11:54 deshipu yeah, they are on earth, and earth is in space, so they are the cheapest robots in space
11:54 deshipu as there are no cheaper anywhere else
11:54 Hyratel1 deshipu, A, don't be pedantic, B, don't be patronising
11:55 GargantuaSauce he has a point
11:55 GargantuaSauce there is a high barrier to entry
11:55 deshipu I'm sorry, I shouldn't be talking with this mood
11:55 GargantuaSauce but i am pretty sure it is going to happen reasonably soon
11:56 deshipu I should be drinking instead :)
11:56 Hyratel1 with SpaceX doing its thang
11:56 GargantuaSauce 245 tonnes of platinum were sold in 2010
11:56 GargantuaSauce harvesting a single asteroid could bring that number up by 2 orders of magnitude
11:57 GargantuaSauce and that shit is USEFUL
11:57 Hyratel1 the F9 has half the cost-per-pound to orbit of the SoyuzProton system and twice the payload capacity
11:58 deshipu and that's 100000x more than the salary of the people being sent
11:58 deshipu so I don't think replacing the humans is a good point of optimization here
11:58 GargantuaSauce well, longevity is the serious advantage for space stuff
11:59 GargantuaSauce you cant put a person in space for years without constant resupply
11:59 deshipu that's true
11:59 deshipu but it's true for machines that we can build today too
11:59 GargantuaSauce not reaallly
11:59 deshipu especially in space conditions
11:59 GargantuaSauce voyager is still functioning for instance
11:59 GargantuaSauce 35 years
12:00 GargantuaSauce and we've definitely made some advances since then
12:00 deshipu yeah, that's a huge thing, I mentioned it, only I confused the names ;)
12:00 deshipu then again, Voyager doesn't have that many moving parts, does it?
12:00 Hyratel1 ISEE-3
12:00 GargantuaSauce it has a bunch actually
12:00 deshipu for the antennas
12:00 GargantuaSauce attitude control is kind of important
12:00 deshipu ?
12:00 deshipu I thought it moves its whole body
12:00 GargantuaSauce also you can employ redundancy and account for failures with robotics, but sending people to their deaths is generally frowned upon
12:00 Hyratel1 it has to be able to point the antenna at earth
12:01 deshipu GargantuaSauce: nonsense, it happens every day in those slave mines
12:01 Hyratel1 deshipu, please.
12:01 GargantuaSauce space missions will be in the public eye though
12:01 deshipu GargantuaSauce: you just have to do it under the radar
12:01 deshipu GargantuaSauce: yeah, that's the problem
12:01 Hyratel1 deshipu, which you just can't do en masse with space launches
12:01 GargantuaSauce the problem is we can't freely kill educated people?
12:01 GargantuaSauce oh noooooo
12:02 GargantuaSauce they're not poor! fuck
12:02 deshipu there is that legend about the russian manned space flights -- that Gagaring wasn't the first who went, he was just the first who returned
12:02 Hyratel1 this is too much disillusioned bitterness for one conversation to be productive
12:02 deshipu Gagarin*
12:03 deshipu and there are recordings caught by radio amateurs of people screaming
12:03 darsie Dead humans don't work any more, so letting them die is a bad option. Unless they reproduce.
12:03 deshipu (they didn't encrypt transmissions back then, it was all analog)
12:04 GargantuaSauce isnt it pretty well known that they sent gagarin to his death in a known shitty rocket
12:04 Hyratel1 there wwas no such thing as a non-shittyrocket back then
12:05 deshipu they didn't even publish it until he returned
12:05 Hyratel1 but now they have shitty rockets with survival features !
12:05 deshipu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cosmonauts
12:06 Hyratel1 did you hear about the russian satellite launch where someone forced an accelerometer in upside down - despite clear labels and destroying the keyed installation slot in the process?
12:06 Hyratel1 this was in the past two years
12:06 Hyratel1 anyway, less politics, more robotics
12:07 kaedrin Could machines travel through space with deep-freezed human fetuses or DNA or something, and 'rebuild' humanity on a space colony?
12:07 Hyratel1 you'd have to bootstrap the humans
12:07 deshipu kaedrin: except you wouldn't get humanity
12:08 deshipu also, why the hell would you want to do that?
12:08 kaedrin I'm just speculating
12:08 kaedrin .-.
12:08 deshipu equally, why would you want to build an artificial autonomous colony of robots competing with you for resources
12:08 Hyratel1 deshipu, go drink, you're disillusioned
12:09 Hyratel1 deshipu, while you're at it, why have automated assembly lines? why even exist
12:09 shipu goes to work on his killer ro
12:09 Hyratel1 oik, there. I think i covered the rest of the points you might make
12:09 Hyratel1 NOW CAN WE TALK ABOUT ROBOTICS
12:09 deshipu I need to write a general purpose nondeterministic state machine to recognize patterns in accelerometer output
12:10 deshipu so that I can make my robot wiggle its legs when you pick it up
12:10 deshipu and prevent it from falling from the table
12:10 Hyratel1 oh that's cute
12:11 deshipu maybe later I will make it self-replicate if I have spare 15 minutes
12:12 deshipu sorry, that was mean
12:14 GargantuaSauce you'll want an analytically defined constraint thing to keep the wishywashy algorithms in check
12:14 GargantuaSauce so you don't do stuff like slam the legs together
12:16 deshipu that's another hard problem that I'm putting off for later
12:16 deshipu while I can calculate the reachable areas of the legs, and refuse to move them to points outside them
12:16 deshipu detecting leg collision in advance is way beyond me
12:17 deshipu and I don't want to do iterative algorithms
12:17 GargantuaSauce well what you can do to start is just not have those valid regions overlapping at all
12:17 GargantuaSauce i am pretty sure iterative stuff is necessary to go past a certain point :(
12:17 deshipu too late, the robot is built already
12:17 GargantuaSauce no i mean just constrain them a little further in the software
12:17 deshipu and needs those regions for walking
12:17 GargantuaSauce oh :/
12:17 GargantuaSauce right quad
12:18 GargantuaSauce welp enjoy your crashes i guess :D
12:18 deshipu it has the legs close together
12:18 GargantuaSauce sounds like you're about where i was when i set it aside now
12:18 deshipu what I could do is measure the current drawn by the servos
12:18 GargantuaSauce the next step is pretty significant i think
12:18 deshipu and detect when they stall
12:18 GargantuaSauce i am eyeing building a full simulation suite
12:19 deshipu well, I explored several different directions and stopped already
12:19 GargantuaSauce yeah you could try post-collision detection but it's possible it will destroy itself before you can react
12:19 deshipu but this accelerometer thing sounds like it might work
12:19 GargantuaSauce like strip the gears etc
12:20 deshipu fortunately the legs are a little ellastic
12:20 GargantuaSauce yeah ok that will help
12:20 GargantuaSauce i havent tested a bad fault with mine (except for the one servo that burned itself by pushing into the endstop)
12:20 deshipu I only used an extra servo horn to build them
12:20 GargantuaSauce but i suspect it would not be pretty
12:21 deshipu hehe, I replaced the servos in my other quadruped, the big one
12:21 deshipu but I didn't test it properly, started the walking program right after tuning
12:21 deshipu turns out the new servos rotate in opposite direction to the old ones
12:21 GargantuaSauce heheh
12:22 deshipu it literally tore its own legs from its butt
12:22 deshipu good thing the chassis is wood and not metal
12:22 GargantuaSauce whats really fun to think about is that we could do that so easily if we didn't feel pain
12:22 deshipu so the screws just went through the wood
12:22 deshipu I could repair it with a couple washers
12:22 GargantuaSauce like our muscles are more than capable of destroying our joints
12:23 deshipu if they are, then epileptics would have twisted arms and legs all the time
12:24 GargantuaSauce i don't think epilepsy induces those unstable oscillations in the spinal cord, and that's where most of our reflexes come from i think'
12:26 deshipu I wonder if I could easily increase the resolution of my accelerometer readings -- it's 0-3.3V, but I read it on 0-5V arduino analog pin
12:26 GargantuaSauce you'd need a rail to rail op amp
12:26 GargantuaSauce (or a negative supply)
12:26 GargantuaSauce or use a digital accelerometer like a normal person
12:26 deshipu I can supply the arduino with reference voltage
12:26 deshipu but I don't have anywhere to take it from
12:26 GargantuaSauce hurr i forgot about that
12:27 GargantuaSauce do you not have a 3.3V linear regulator powering the accelerometer?
12:27 deshipu unless I gave it its own 5V through a resistor?
12:27 GargantuaSauce nope resistor divider would be worthless
12:27 GargantuaSauce way too much noise
12:27 deshipu well, I suppose the regulator is there, on the module
12:27 deshipu I'm really just starting with electronics
12:27 GargantuaSauce if you have a 3.3V zener you could make a shunt regulator
12:28 deshipu all I can do is connect modules on the breadboard ;)
12:28 GargantuaSauce can or will? ;)
12:28 deshipu I am designing a PCB for this robot
12:28 GargantuaSauce you should mess with perfboard in between imo
12:28 deshipu but kicad is quite horrible to use
12:28 deshipu I did, that's how I made the board for the current one
12:28 GargantuaSauce try diptrace
12:29 deshipu well, at least the breakout for the servo pins
12:29 GargantuaSauce it's not Free but there's a pin-limited trial version that has suited my needs so far
12:29 GargantuaSauce and it has a much nicer ui
12:29 deshipu GargantuaSauce: linux?
12:29 GargantuaSauce i run it under wine
12:29 deshipu I have 36 pins just for the servos :)
12:30 GargantuaSauce lol you're going to have trouble timing that many accurately
12:30 GargantuaSauce what mcu?
12:30 adam789654123 "like our muscles are more than capable of destroying joints"
12:30 adam789654123 they are
12:30 deshipu atmega328, I think
12:30 GargantuaSauce bleh
12:30 adam789654123 easily
12:30 deshipu well, it's an arduino
12:30 deshipu arduino pro micro
12:30 deshipu it does alright with the servos, though
12:31 adam789654123 a person can lift much more then the nervous system will typically allow
12:31 deshipu adam789654123: that's like not discharging a lipo past 80%? ;)
12:31 deshipu adam789654123: so that it will live longer?
12:31 GargantuaSauce that's actually a pretty acceptable analogy
12:32 GargantuaSauce normally i balk at body/technology ones
12:32 adam789654123 i butted in without really knowing what you're talking about
12:32 adam789654123 :D
12:32 adam789654123 sorry
12:32 GargantuaSauce well, and technically the body can repair torn muscle fibres (that's how you get ripped actually)
12:32 GargantuaSauce i dont remember what we're talking about
12:32 deshipu stuff
12:32 GargantuaSauce and unfortunately lipos cannot heal themselves
12:32 adam789654123 i watched a video about a guy who heaved a boulder from his body
12:33 adam789654123 his body perminantly damaged from the force of the mucles
12:33 adam789654123 where he could just kind of walk anymore
12:34 adam789654123 because, for example, he tore muscles from their archors into the bone
12:35 adam789654123 and there are stories of mothers lifting cars to save their children
12:35 adam789654123 strange stuff like that
12:35 GargantuaSauce yeah with the right degree of motivation we can do pretty ridiculous stuff
12:35 adam789654123 the nervous system keeps close control on this stuff thoughf
12:35 adam789654123 even muscels are not felxible or unflexible
12:35 adam789654123 muscle is muscle
12:35 adam789654123 its the nervous system that determines flexibility
12:36 adam789654123 not muslce
12:36 adam789654123 muscle
12:36 adam789654123 when you practice flexibility, the nervous system gets more "confident" that you can move into a certain position
12:36 adam789654123 and so allows
12:36 adam789654123 it
12:37 adam789654123 but lack of flexibility is the nervous system causing muscle tension because the parts are, out of the know range
12:37 adam789654123 so to speak
12:37 GargantuaSauce i would imagine it's a bit of both
12:38 adam789654123 maybe, but im pretty sure that lack of flexibility could be thought of as an excess of tension
12:38 adam789654123 like if you could remove the tension, there is no reason to think that you wouldnt be very flexible
12:38 adam789654123 but also, cns streching, which works, is based on this priciple (as far as i know)
12:39 adam789654123 i dont do cns streching anymore, but i have tried it, and it does work
12:39 deshipu so once we have direct skill transfers from the brains, you can become flexible without practice?
12:39 GargantuaSauce lol
12:40 deshipu oh, diptrace actually has a linux version
12:40 adam789654123 you can increase flexibility instantly
12:40 adam789654123 but im sure there are limits
12:40 deshipu by drinking heavily ;)
12:40 adam789654123 ""All soft tissues (muscles, tendons, joint capsules, fascia, skin) are more extensible when they are warm. This is because they are thermo-elastic.""
12:40 GargantuaSauce wait what? this must be new
12:40 GargantuaSauce sweet
12:40 adam789654123 which is an example of what you're talking about
12:40 ratel1 removes spammer from sc
12:40 adam789654123 where the limit is in the mechanics of the muscle
12:41 GargantuaSauce nope the linux version is just official wine support
12:41 deshipu aww
12:41 adam789654123 but working with the nervous system, you can quickly gain alot of flexibility
12:41 GargantuaSauce it works fine though
12:41 shipu tries to decide between 30 day trial and 300-pin l
12:41 adam789654123 btw, here is the link to the quote
12:41 adam789654123 http://www.physioroom.com/prevention/stretching2.php
12:41 adam789654123 and im out for now
12:42 adam789654123 good luck on your project
12:42 GargantuaSauce 300 pins is a lot
12:44 deshipu GargantuaSauce: ok, then I will use that
12:44 deshipu thanks
12:44 GargantuaSauce http://dirtypcbs.com/view.php?share=1372&accesskey=55fcdbab925909fcb954aecbd909c678 here's what i've done with it so far
12:45 deshipu ugh, surface soldering
12:45 GargantuaSauce it's not that hard lol
12:45 GargantuaSauce arguably easier than through hole
12:45 deshipu hmm
12:46 deshipu so much new things to learn
12:46 deshipu so many*
12:48 deshipu what is that 5-hole thing?
12:48 deshipu 5 holes arranged like on a dice
12:48 deshipu close to each other
12:48 GargantuaSauce vias
12:49 GargantuaSauce that's the 3.3v rail so i dont want much resistance/inductance and vias can be sketchy sometimes
12:49 GargantuaSauce so i put a bunch in parallel
12:49 GargantuaSauce probably not the best way to arrange em but i dunno
12:49 GargantuaSauce <--- noob alert
12:49 deshipu vias?
12:49 GargantuaSauce through-plated holes intended to connect the two layers
12:49 deshipu ah
12:50 shipu <-- even greater
12:50 Hyratel1 GargantuaSauce, you don't need multiple vias unless it's a power bus
12:51 GargantuaSauce i just said it is...
12:51 Hyratel1 how many mA?
12:51 GargantuaSauce plenty
12:51 deshipu oh, sweet, it reads eagle files
12:51 deshipu I won't have to redraw the arduino schematics
12:52 Hyratel1 GargantuaSauce, nonanswer
12:53 GargantuaSauce its powering everything on the board, i didnt feel like taking any chances because it's a cutrate fab and also my first project and my first project using the
12:53 GargantuaSauce m
12:53 Hyratel1 GargantuaSauce, straight answers get you help
12:53 GargantuaSauce draw will be up to 200mA or so
12:54 Hyratel1 finally
12:54 GargantuaSauce a i already submitted them weeks ago, should arrive next week
12:54 deshipu what's with all windows programs defaulting to single window full screen? :/
12:54 Hyratel1 all?
12:54 Hyratel1 hardly all
12:54 Hyratel1 name a program that does that
12:55 deshipu diptrace
12:55 deshipu and I remember windows users whining about gimp all the time
12:55 Hyratel1 ok?
12:56 Hyratel1 I don't see a problem with GIMP defaulting to fullscreen
12:56 Hyratel1 or rather, MAXIMISED
12:56 Hyratel1 which is very different
12:56 deshipu no, gimp doesn't do that
12:56 deshipu that's what they were whining about
12:56 Hyratel1 e_e
12:56 Hyratel1 what's your point
12:57 deshipu it's as if every program expected you to devote your full attention to it exclusively
12:57 Hyratel1 and?
12:57 deshipu it's tupid?
12:57 deshipu stupid
12:57 Hyratel1 are you going somewhere with this because all I hear is WEEH WEEH WEEH
12:57 deshipu no, I just enjoy complaining
12:58 deshipu I can stop
12:58 GargantuaSauce you are even less amicable than usual today hyratel
12:58 m_itx pushes the Estop bu
12:58 Hyratel1 maybe it's because I want to talk about ROBOTICS in a ROBOTICS chat
12:59 deshipu by all means, lets
12:59 deshipu Hyratel1: how are your robotics today?
12:59 Hyratel1 instead people are filling the tubes with political bullshit
12:59 Hyratel1 got to drive one around at a labor day park-party, the kids were /all over/ that
13:00 deshipu Hyratel1: excuse me, but I was talking about making a pcb for my robot, and then followed the advice and now am making that pcb
13:00 Hyratel1 "Coooooool" "how did you build that!" etc
13:00 deshipu Hyratel1: are you working on your robot?
13:00 Hyratel1 not presently
13:00 deshipu see?
13:00 GargantuaSauce you mean his rc car
13:00 deshipu I'm more on topic :D
13:01 Hyratel1 yeah but you're the one that turned a topic about robotics IN SPAAACE into the politics of the russian space program so nyeh
13:02 deshipu that was like yesterday
13:02 Hyratel1 no, that was about an hour ago
13:03 GargantuaSauce it was yesterday if you're in asia
13:03 deshipu exactly, I only have 20 minutes of short term memory
13:03 GargantuaSauce actually it was today, and we're presently talking tomorrow
13:03 deshipu and don't commit silly stuff like this to the long term one
13:03 GargantuaSauce timezones are hard
13:04 Hyratel1 aaand ignore
13:04 deshipu :)
13:04 GargantuaSauce about time
13:04 GargantuaSauce do me too
13:04 deshipu aand tell them that you ignore them otherwise it doesn't count
13:04 Hyratel1 nah. you're interesting
13:04 GargantuaSauce :')
13:04 deshipu could it be that diptrace doesn't have atmego328 in its library? :/
13:05 Hyratel1 deshipu is just too poor of a S:N R
13:05 deshipu atmega*
13:06 GargantuaSauce i would imagine it does, i always have to dig for awhile before i find stuff though
13:08 deshipu I see atmega329, it should be right next to it
13:10 GargantuaSauce weird, maybe it's a sign you should use a mcu that doesnt suck :D
13:10 deshipu which one is easier to solder, MLF or TQFP?
13:10 deshipu right, I will use atmega168 instead ;)
13:11 GargantuaSauce you use different techniques for the two
13:11 GargantuaSauce some might argue mlf is easier because the process is simpler but it's more touchy
13:12 GargantuaSauce ie youre marginally more likely to overheat the chip
13:12 GargantuaSauce tqfp is slightly less error prone i think
13:12 GargantuaSauce but more work
13:12 deshipu mlf is the one without legs, where the contacts are right below it?
13:13 GargantuaSauce yes
13:13 deshipu ok, tqfp then, thanks
13:13 GargantuaSauce you use paste or tin the pads, and then heat the whole chip
13:13 GargantuaSauce tqfp you can drag or reflow or solder pin by pin
13:31 GargantuaSauce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVqK9PzdldU
13:46 deshipu robots in medical service
13:49 GargantuaSauce man it looks like he hasnt bothered to do ik yet
13:49 GargantuaSauce i'm pissed, that's a cool frame design and he's wasting it with shitty software
13:50 deshipu do what?
13:50 GargantuaSauce IK
13:51 deshipu ouch
13:51 deshipu well, I still didn't do body IK either
13:51 deshipu not full
13:51 deshipu not with the transformation matrix
13:54 deshipu it's a scary part
13:54 deshipu but the robot is huge
13:55 GargantuaSauce yeah and the leg design is cool
13:55 GargantuaSauce it locks into position so the motors aren't loaded
13:55 GargantuaSauce and it fucking SKATES!
13:55 deshipu awesome
14:09 deshipu I wonder if that free version of diptrace simply has an outdated library
14:09 deshipu ADXL335 is not there either
14:10 GargantuaSauce i am not sure the paid version has more libraries
14:10 GargantuaSauce i dunno
14:10 GargantuaSauce its library is definitely the weakest point
14:11 deshipu oh well, I will just look for something in the same package
22:25 rue_more hahah its almost as big as buddy III
22:32 rue_more gee, well I'm tired, better make some tea
22:40 rue_shop3 gee I can really spruce up the jukebox with some ajax
22:59 rue_shop3 anyone doing anything
22:59 rue_shop3 erp, I just realized that I wasn't here for armyofevilrobots
22:59 rue_shop3 *sigh*
22:59 rue_shop3 maybe he forgot?
23:44 rue_shop3 void TimerInit() { //8 bit timer, set up 10Khz (15.625Khz)
23:44 rue_shop3 / tho it dosn't have to be a 8 bit timer, it dosn't matter really
23:44 rue_shop3 / as long as all the diodes down my left side hurt, nothing really matters.
23:44 rue_shop3 / robot with a brain the size of a planet, and they have me writing c code, pathetic.
23:44 rue_shop3 TCCR0 = ((1<<PSR0)|(3<<CS00)); // 1Mhz / 64 !!!PROCESSOR!!!!
23:44 rue_shop3 }
23:44 MrCurious AVR registers! BURN THE HERETIC!
23:45 MrCurious sorry, teretts
23:46 rue_shop3 whats 6Mhz/ 10Khz?
23:47 rue_shop3 about 600, and wouldn't ya know it, timer 1 on the mega32 dosn't have a /512
23:47 rue_shop3 my choices are 256 and 1024
23:47 rue_shop3 isn't that just typical
23:48 rue_shop3 I suppose its a 16 bit timer, I can let it flow over 256
23:49 rue_shop3 huh
23:50 rue_shop3 I'm taking a interrupt on INT1 and using software to use timer 1 to measure the pulse time
23:50 rue_shop3 instead of just using the input capture
23:50 rue_shop3 huh
23:53 rue_shop3 there is no flag to just reset the timer 1 count, huh
23:56 rue_shop3 HOW LONG IS THE TEA GONNA TAKE TO KICK IN!