#robotics Logs

Aug 31 2014

00:20 anonnumberanon codes what?
00:20 rue_shop3 I'm gonna try making a securrity card reader
00:20 rue_shop3 they sell for a fortune on ebay
00:20 rue_shop3 like $500 for a 1 card reader
00:20 anonnumberanon hah
00:21 rue_shop3 unless you get the ones where you just pry it off the wall and short the solinoid relay
00:21 rue_shop3 those are cheap
00:21 anonnumberanon how much do you think costs in parts? what language do you use fo rit?
00:21 rue_shop3 I think I can make it for under $20
00:21 rue_shop3 and I'm going with C
00:22 anonnumberanon I'm getting into C after Java and Visual Basic
00:22 anonnumberanon reading K&R
00:22 rue_shop3 yup
00:22 anonnumberanon also on the back burner, planning how i will learn to code for ARM chips
00:24 anonnumberanon for my senior design project in EE
00:24 anonnumberanon man I don't know what to do
00:24 anonnumberanon it's supposed to be like this: one semester of research, one semester in assembly
00:25 anonnumberanon assembling* the project
00:25 rue_shop3 huh, well the data recieve code was easier than I thought
00:27 anonnumberanon any ideas?
00:27 rue_shop3 arm is evil
00:28 rue_shop3 you can only compile in a working arm environment
00:28 rue_shop3 have fun with that
00:33 anonnumberanon well i was leaning towards something performant and used by the industry...
00:36 GargantuaSauce not rue's area of expertise ;)
00:36 GargantuaSauce what do you have in mind
00:40 anonnumberanon something that has some algorithms to code and nice use of sensors, as well as implementing feedback control with OP amps and transistors on something like the raspberry pi or some other arm-based dev board
00:41 GargantuaSauce ok so like a cortex-a soc
00:41 GargantuaSauce you'll probably also want a microcontroller for timing-dependent operations like the control loops
00:45 GargantuaSauce i am not sure which soc i would recommend because all the ones i've used are sucky in their own ways
00:45 anonnumberanon heh
00:46 GargantuaSauce maybe the allwinner a20, look at the cubieboard 2 or cubietruck boards
00:46 onnumberanon googles frantic
00:47 GargantuaSauce i know a couple people that swear by the beaglebone black, also check out olimex's line of boards
00:47 GargantuaSauce the rpi though is old and awful, avoid
00:50 anonnumberanon i already own it
00:50 anonnumberanon why awful?
00:51 anonnumberanon you say it's old but to me when I'll put my hands into it, everything will be new
00:51 anonnumberanon i've written programs for the 8051 in Microcontroller class but that's it
00:51 GargantuaSauce it has very limited io capabilities
00:51 anonnumberanon that's my only experience in low level except for assembling and soldering stuff
00:52 anonnumberanon oh the IO is bad?
00:52 anonnumberanon it's not expandable?
00:53 GargantuaSauce well all you get is on that little header
00:53 anonnumberanon it has a lot of pins
00:53 anonnumberanon like 20
00:53 GargantuaSauce if that's a lot i guess it will perhaps suffice then
00:54 GargantuaSauce also don't rely on the usb and network performance
00:54 anonnumberanon i don't know what a lot is yet heh
00:54 anonnumberanon well it does take forever to do an apt-get update heh
00:55 GargantuaSauce that is probably more a question of slow storage
00:56 anonnumberanon they say not to use Arduino cause it's for hobbyists yet senior design projects keep popping up on the projects' shelves running arduino
00:57 anonnumberanon I don't want to be that guy lol.
01:03 GargantuaSauce i think there are better reasons to avoid arduino :V
01:06 anonnumberanon do you think there is anything good to make out of hexacopters? it would give me the advantage of actually playing with a hexacopter as well
01:06 GargantuaSauce also depending on the computational complexity of the algorithms you intend to mess with, it's quite possible a single microcontroller could do everything you need
01:07 mrdata nothign wrong with avr if it gets the job done
01:07 mrdata and if you use that, then arduino is pretty convenient
01:08 anonnumberanon what if i make a hexacopter that drops a payload on the ground and first chooses if the ground is suitable for a landing?
01:09 mrdata seems fun
01:09 GargantuaSauce i strongly suspect its stability/motion control would be enough of a project in and of itself
01:09 mrdata what does it entail?
01:10 anonnumberanon yeah that would be a lot of software GargantuaSauce right?
01:10 GargantuaSauce a lot of software, a lot of testing, a lot of crashing and rebuilding
01:10 anonnumberanon thing is i have to incorporate feedback control, autonomy, and transistor use
01:11 GargantuaSauce you will absolutely not want to use analog electronics in its stability control
01:11 GargantuaSauce not in this decade
01:11 GargantuaSauce sounds like you need something a lot simpler and less self-destructable
01:11 anonnumberanon so use them for when dropping the payload or something?
01:12 GargantuaSauce start small
01:12 GargantuaSauce maybe a brushless motor driver
01:13 mrdata that you believe it shouldnt try to use analog electronics in its stability control, seems like a challenge
01:13 mrdata ;)
01:13 GargantuaSauce no it sounds like a waste of effort
01:13 mrdata perhaps
01:13 GargantuaSauce you may as well use vacuum tubes
01:13 mrdata whee!
01:13 anonnumberanon I still have to show them I can use the stuff I learned from Control Systems class.
01:13 anonnumberanon as well as Electronics
01:14 anonnumberanon it's so HAAARD
01:14 GargantuaSauce a brushless motor driver has to do closed-loop speed control
01:17 anonnumberanon you're saying I should do just that?
01:17 GargantuaSauce i am saying start small
01:17 GargantuaSauce a hexacopter is a big complex system
01:17 GargantuaSauce not necessarily suitable for a capstone project unless you're slapping together off the shelf crap
01:18 GargantuaSauce in which case you won't be applying that knowledge
01:18 anonnumberanon what about an off the shelf quad/hexacopter with special capabilities added which will then be the actual project?
01:19 GargantuaSauce if you can find a way to shoehorn analog design into that without doing something really damn stupid, sure why not
01:20 anonnumberanon right
01:21 GargantuaSauce but then again if you're slapping it together off the shelf, there will be a lot of stuff that is not under your control that may interfere with your actual project
01:22 GargantuaSauce if this will be your first applied microcontroller project outside of a couple of class assignments on an 8051 this is going to be very difficult to approach
01:23 GargantuaSauce soooo yeah my overarching advice is definitely to start small
01:25 anonnumberanon thing is, once I got a motor there won't be much I can do with it as far as calling it a product, because the final thing kind of has to be a "product"
01:26 GargantuaSauce do you have examples of what previous years' students have produced for the same project
01:27 GargantuaSauce that will give you an idea of the scope that will be approachable
01:27 anonnumberanon okay i will try to list what ive seen on the shelf
01:28 anonnumberanon -a hand that opens and closes its fingers (it's pretty gross though)
01:28 anonnumberanon -a stair climber with tank treads
01:29 anonnumberanon -an obstacle dodging little vehicle, but that's been way overdone
01:29 anonnumberanon and at the presentation it ran into the obstacle haha
01:29 GargantuaSauce yeah so...autonomous uav control is about an order of magnitude more complicated than any of those things
01:30 GargantuaSauce and if it screws up you get a flaming pile of rubble on the ground
01:32 GargantuaSauce how about a 2-wheel balancing robot?
01:32 anonnumberanon wow that would be awesome
01:32 GargantuaSauce it's a reasonably popular choice for that sort of project i think
01:33 GargantuaSauce make discrete h-bridges to drive the wheel motors and use a software control loop with an imu for balance
01:34 GargantuaSauce on a microcontroller
01:34 GargantuaSauce i think that is an approachably scoped project
01:34 GargantuaSauce if you have extra time stick a soc on there and do navigation or something
01:35 anonnumberanon what is an soc?
01:35 anonnumberanon navigation, meaning?
01:35 rue_shop3 making a balancing robot?
01:36 GargantuaSauce soc = system on chip, something like the rpi has
01:36 GargantuaSauce navigation....not running into shit, maybe getting from point A to point B
01:37 GargantuaSauce but that certainly comes after you have a working thing that balances and drives around under manual control
01:38 GargantuaSauce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApcEqZ7Twys this sort of thing
01:39 anonnumberanon i wonder if i could make it so that if it is starting to run out of power it finds a wall and leans on it while blocking the wheel, waiting until the user charges it again
01:39 rue_shop3 gee I have so many cool things to play with, I could set up the line following robot in the shop again
01:39 rue_shop3 see if I can get the bar codes happening at intersections for locating where it is
01:39 GargantuaSauce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poWP-RpPa3g ooh this one is rather robust
01:42 rue_shop3 ok, the code compiled, now, how do I get it onto a controller.....
01:47 anonnumberanon this last one GargantuaSauce this is exactly the type of stuff I need to make
01:48 anonnumberanon it's analog, has a microcontroller, uses remote control and autonomous control...
01:48 GargantuaSauce well analog is debatable but i'm hoping a basic motor driver will cover that
01:49 anonnumberanon i said that because of the circuit board that is obviously diy
01:50 anonnumberanon i don't know what components he has on it maybe he shows it later
01:54 GargantuaSauce just looks like a pair of linear regulators to me
02:30 anonnumberanon GargantuaSauce, any new work on your bionic spider hexapod or whatever?
02:30 anonnumberanon videos?
02:30 GargantuaSauce nope, it's on hold until i do a very significant overhaul
02:30 anonnumberanon i am always mesmerized by those things
02:32 GargantuaSauce newest progress is sending away for a somewhat general control board for a few projects, http://dirtypcbs.com/view.php?share=1372&accesskey=55fcdbab925909fcb954aecbd909c678
02:32 anonnumberanon lilnk to the youtube video please?
02:32 anonnumberanon the one you had
02:32 GargantuaSauce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXvZWTZWN8A&list=UUdows935Gli84K_jOepVjnA
02:33 rue_shop3 whats the board good for?
02:34 GargantuaSauce whatever i plug into it really
02:34 rue_shop3 not many plugs on it
02:34 GargantuaSauce has 2 i2c, 2 uarts, and spi broken out, and a bunch of timers
02:34 rue_shop3 sounds like quite specific usage
02:34 GargantuaSauce lol
02:34 rue_shop3 its a comm manager :)
02:34 GargantuaSauce i guess
02:35 GargantuaSauce oh also usb
02:35 GargantuaSauce it will suffice as the sole controller for at least 3-4 separate projects i think
02:37 GargantuaSauce which is good because i only have like 5 of the microcontroller that fits on it
02:37 anonnumberanon hah i forgot how cool it was
02:37 rue_shop3 good if you have a bunch of i2c chips to talk to
02:38 anonnumberanon you need 5 UC cause you think you'll brick some of them?
02:38 GargantuaSauce well i am getting 10 of the boards because that is the moq
02:39 GargantuaSauce and i have 5 of the microcontrollers cause i got them from mouser and they offer a shitty price
02:39 anonnumberanon holy heck what kind of board is that, now THAT has a lot of IO ports on it, the blue board in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HPVbuaONO4&list=UUdows935Gli84K_jOepVjnA&index=3
02:39 GargantuaSauce stm32f4discovery
02:39 GargantuaSauce which incidentally is probably what i would recommend you use, though it's a little overkill
02:40 anonnumberanon well better have more than less
02:40 GargantuaSauce it's stupidly fast too
02:40 GargantuaSauce 168MHz, has a floating point unit, etc
02:40 anonnumberanon i just want to be able to understand how it works on a general level, opposed to having to copy paste code and everything else for it
02:41 GargantuaSauce yup that's the way to go
02:41 GargantuaSauce i don't even use the vendor peripheral libraries
02:41 anonnumberanon its only 15 bucks, I don't understand...
02:41 GargantuaSauce it's sold at or below cost
02:42 anonnumberanon that's nice why is that/
02:42 GargantuaSauce to promote development using their products?
02:44 GargantuaSauce the profit is in mass production after all
02:44 GargantuaSauce so why not throw the boards around for a pittance
02:44 GargantuaSauce there's an onboard programmer/debugger too
02:47 anonnumberanon what's a programmer for can't i hook up the usb and send my asm instructions
02:47 anonnumberanon >
02:47 anonnumberanon ?
02:47 GargantuaSauce that's what a programmer is for
02:47 anonnumberanon ah okay
03:10 anonnumberanon gn
03:11 rue_shop3 sweet, I got the card reader working
11:59 e_house stret
16:13 rue_mohr2 ok
16:13 rue_mohr2 well
16:13 rue_mohr2 brick wall in the garden is comming along
16:14 rue_mohr2 working on getting the cladding off the thermal storage tank so I can inulate it properly
16:14 rue_mohr2 made lunch, cleaning shop
19:35 MrCurious yay! home from the hillbilly zone
19:56 fluffywolf ... you look like you're still here...
19:57 MrCurious thats going too far....
19:57 Curious pulls out a banjo and starts playing the deliverance
19:57 fluffywolf lol
19:57 fluffywolf bbl, food
21:35 MrCurious odd. no robostra
21:35 Tom_itx but.. but.. i'm here!
21:35 MrCurious so who pissed the ruski off?
21:40 MrCurious got some lovely magnets for my delta while i was gone
22:01 fluffywolf I might have pissed him off. he seemed to think I was hitting on him.
22:01 fluffywolf despite my not liking men at all, and saying that. heh.
22:07 MrCurious it is good to have hobbies :)
23:16 e_shop3 plays with getting a hd44780 working over a 7
23:18 rue_shop3 ok there is the 595
23:18 rue_shop3 74595, the 74164 and a 40xx
23:18 rue_shop3 4093?
23:19 rue_shop3 no
23:24 rue_shop3 4094
23:45 rue_shop3 armyofevilrobots, YOU!
23:45 rue_shop3 your back, this is good