#robotics Logs
Aug 27 2014
#robotics Calendar
10:12 rue_bed xmpp?
10:28 LiohAu the XMPP protocol used for gtalk for example
10:29 LiohAu rue_bed: I want to transmit video from my robot, to the controller, and I believe XMPP has an extension for that, so I was thinking about using xmpp to send the commands.
10:42 rue_bed been there :)
10:42 rue_bed tell us more
11:23 xorly LiohAu: i made just a quick look on xmpp properties... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP#Weaknesses last point, so XMPP is not binary effective
11:24 xorly for control OK, but video transfer should be realized somehow different
11:24 xorly differently*
11:28 rue_more well you think differently, most people would just say it requires a 10Gbit network connection
11:30 xorly well, then ask those pople how to create 10Gbit/s link with mobile robot wirelessly
11:32 xorly I hope you won't get reply about long enough optic fiber :D
11:32 rue_more what bothers me is that, from what i can tell, if you take a digital video chain from camera to monitor, there are about 180 full frame buffers in between
11:32 rue_more leading to a 3 second lag
11:33 GargantuaSauce_ depends on the details of the system
11:33 rue_more my upcomming robot video project uses an all-analog path to get realtime video, NO LAG!
11:33 rue_more GargantuaSauce_, I'd love to see a digital video demo that dosn't have 3 seconds lag
11:34 GargantuaSauce_ ive gotten the end to end latency for a wifi/lan video thing down to <0.5s
11:34 GargantuaSauce_ just using ffmpeg and vlc
11:34 rue_more from a camera?
11:34 GargantuaSauce_ yeah from a shitty webcam
11:34 rue_more what speed processors on the ends?
11:34 GargantuaSauce_ cubieboard on the sendy end
11:34 rue_more ?
11:35 GargantuaSauce_ my pc on the recievey end
11:35 rue_more mips?
11:35 rue_more mhz?
11:35 GargantuaSauce_ 1ghz cortex a8
11:35 rue_more k
11:35 GargantuaSauce_ software encoding
11:35 rue_more yea
11:35 rue_more huh
11:35 GargantuaSauce_ hardware encoding would be better but it's super hard to leverage
11:35 GargantuaSauce_ most of the latency from this stuff comes from egregiously large buffers
11:36 rue_more I had to fight tooth and claw just to get video sent in a way that could be recieved
11:36 GargantuaSauce_ that can easily be decreased in size
11:36 rue_more did you recompile ffmpeg and vlc with trims?
11:36 GargantuaSauce_ you need to tweak the codec parameters to actually work with smaller buffers though i guess
11:36 GargantuaSauce_ no
11:36 rue_more yea, the buffers are annoying
11:38 rue_more how long ago was the ffmpeg stuff you did?
11:38 GargantuaSauce_ couple months
11:38 rue_more the command line options completely change around every few years and then nobody knows how to work them
11:38 GargantuaSauce_ yeah.
11:38 GargantuaSauce_ i am doing a software startup right now that deals with realtime video
11:38 GargantuaSauce_ and part of the prototype is faked with vlc
11:39 GargantuaSauce_ and FUCK the documentation is bad
11:39 rue_more oooo, I'll contribute a line of cide!
11:39 rue_more er code even
11:39 GargantuaSauce_ part of the issue is the ffmpeg/libav drama
11:39 rue_more I recall that last time I was trying to do a video thing
11:40 GargantuaSauce_ but yeah in that stuff there's a lot of reorganizing modules and so on, changing cli options, and not bothering to update the documentation
11:40 rue_more its a developer spat, yes?
11:40 GargantuaSauce_ yeah basically it was just standard saucedrama
11:40 GargantuaSauce_ my window manager just crashed :/
11:40 rue_more so are you gonna strip down/clean up ffmpeg/libav?
11:40 GargantuaSauce_ lol no
11:41 rue_more restart it!
11:41 GargantuaSauce_ i feel like the state that stuff is in is a necessary consequence of having such a ridiculously huge featureset
11:41 rue_more helps to have a console up
11:41 rue_more yup
11:42 rue_more I figure there are about 2M video format combinations, about 4 of which can be viewed on windows
11:42 rue_more and the origional avi format isn't one of them
11:42 GargantuaSauce_ avi is the worst container
11:43 rue_more worse than bmp?
11:43 GargantuaSauce_ mmmyes
11:44 rue_more I recall looking into wav format and being surprised by the number of things that are never used in it, iirc unlimited channels and tags
11:53 GargantuaSauce_ oh yeah i got 8 of these guys http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121378550183
11:53 GargantuaSauce_ and they seem pretty reasonable
11:53 GargantuaSauce_ better quality than i was expecting for 3 bucks
11:54 rue_more ... $13?
11:54 GargantuaSauce_ for 4
11:54 rue_more oh 4
11:54 rue_more :)
11:55 rue_more are they backdrivable?
11:55 GargantuaSauce_ yeah
11:55 GargantuaSauce_ and the shaft sticks out on both sides so you can put an extra wheel on there or an encoder
11:55 rue_more I been doing a kill -stop on iceweasel so it dosn't crash just sitting there
11:59 rue_more the component tester I got from china magically started working again
12:02 GargantuaSauce_ dry joint?
12:15 robotust1a I'm curious why don't you try to invent new actuators?
12:24 rue_more me or him?
12:25 rue_more oh, you mean solder joint, no I think its a power or firmware problem
12:26 rue_more robotust1a, hu?
12:37 adam789654123 anybody here ever hear of mechatronics?
12:38 rue_more isn't it a umiversity course?
12:38 adam789654123 there is a school by me that offers courses on this
12:38 adam789654123 and it looks interesting to me
12:38 adam789654123 most courses seem a waist of my time
12:39 adam789654123 but its kind of like, a educational path
12:39 adam789654123 the degree is 2 year at this school
12:42 billmania adam789654123: I've heard about Mechatronics.
12:43 adam789654123 do you know anything that might give me any hints as to what i should persue?
12:44 billmania I'm sure I know at least one or two things.
12:44 adam789654123 it looks promising, but i know the people on this form are hardcore into this stuff, so...
12:44 billmania However, I don't know very much at all about you.
12:44 adam789654123 well... i think it looks right up my ally
12:45 adam789654123 maybe that says at least something of my view of myself
12:45 robotust1a adam789654123: one guy of my coworker fihished mechatronix in the college
12:46 adam789654123 is he glad he got the degree?
12:46 adam789654123 did he think it was worth the effort?
12:46 robotust1a yeah he is quite good
12:46 adam789654123 awsome
12:46 adam789654123 this seems like the best thing going for someone who is in my position now
12:47 robotust1a it was ok, he sets up welding robots with cameras now
12:47 adam789654123 the thing is, i dont want to go to school to specialize in something without a general background
12:47 robotust1a adam789654123: and I can tell you in general: you can't tell exacly what you will really need to study and what is not
12:48 adam789654123 i thought if i do some more general work, i could work into a specialty
12:48 robotust1a adam789654123: general background should be first of cause
12:49 adam789654123 ok. we are on the same page
12:49 adam789654123 so i thought this would be an excelent path to some general knowledge
12:49 robotust1a math, electronics, physics
12:49 adam789654123 ive just started studying calculus
12:49 robotust1a mechatronix is gust a practical application
12:49 robotust1a just
12:50 adam789654123 yeah, but that is helpful, no?
12:50 robotust1a what is "that"
12:50 adam789654123 that=the genral practical stuff
12:51 robotust1a if you wanna be a narrow specialist - go mechatronix directly, without the base
12:51 adam789654123 oh
12:51 adam789654123 i see
12:51 adam789654123 so you are saying mechatronix is a narrow specialization
12:51 robotust1a without the base - yes
12:51 adam789654123 i am interested in the "base"
12:52 robotust1a you'll get just some rules and howtos
12:52 adam789654123 i see. my outline was inverted.
12:52 robotust1a but if you'll get base - you'll be able to selflearn
12:52 adam789654123 yes
12:52 adam789654123 this is what i want to do
12:52 adam789654123 but i also need to make some money
12:53 adam789654123 so i thought maybe i could make some money while i was working in the field
12:53 adam789654123 but also work on the electronics, physics, and math
12:53 robotust1a every dollar put into study will give you bak 4 dollars
12:53 adam789654123 then if i wanted to major in say, electrical engineering or something
12:53 adam789654123 thats not the story of my life XD
12:54 adam789654123 but do you mean every dollar on education?
12:54 robotust1a yes
12:54 robotust1a that's what I mean
12:54 robotust1a the gain is 1:4
12:54 adam789654123 so it should be economically worth it
12:54 robotust1a study/ future salary
12:54 adam789654123 and for me, its also something that im interested in
12:55 adam789654123 so it pays off both ways
12:55 robotust1a yes
12:55 adam789654123 cool
12:55 adam789654123 thanks for helping me clear this up
12:55 robotust1a 1:4 - it's general estimation for america
12:56 adam789654123 i figured that i would be more likely to get a payoff because the major is tied in with industry
12:56 rue_more hahaha, more like for every dollar you spend your likley to make 1 back
12:56 adam789654123 i dont think you get that kind of payoff going to school for liberal arts, for example
12:56 rue_more how many people with university degrees do I know flipping burgers, hahah
12:56 adam789654123 thats why i thought this would be a good shot
12:56 robotust1a rue_more: :)
12:57 robotust1a I'm not btw
12:57 adam789654123 :)
12:57 robotust1a I'm flipping bits for high rate
12:58 adam789654123 because the industry was involved in outlining the path for their needs
12:58 robotust1a adam789654123: first formulate your goal - who you want to be
12:58 robotust1a in the very end
12:58 adam789654123 i want to solve problems, and work on different kinds of systems
12:58 robotust1a don't be attached to any company goal
12:58 adam789654123 i think that would be fun
12:58 adam789654123 i like to learn stuff
12:59 robotust1a it's not a goal
12:59 adam789654123 i was thinking "industry", not company
12:59 adam789654123 what is a goal then?
12:59 robotust1a there are 2 verbs in English
12:59 robotust1a "be" and "have"
12:59 robotust1a you have to "be" somebody
12:59 robotust1a and you have to "have" something
13:00 robotust1a first, define who you want to "be" and a professional
13:00 robotust1a I for instance want to be an "ebedded engineer"
13:01 robotust1a this is my final goal
13:01 robotust1a I want to be a pro
13:01 robotust1a in this area
13:01 adam789654123 i understand
13:01 adam789654123 my outline is a work in progress
13:01 robotust1a if you don't define who you want to be - you'll never come to success
13:02 adam789654123 so i could say i want to be a mechatronixs engineer, but there are reasons why i might think that
13:02 robotust1a you can work as cleaner but want to be a engineer
13:02 adam789654123 yes
13:02 robotust1a reasons are not important
13:03 adam789654123 i look at reasons like the scaffold
13:03 deshipu what's cooking?
13:03 adam789654123 i could be wrong with an assumption i had
13:03 robotust1a when you'll understand that the life will become easier
13:03 robotust1a adam789654123: pass a test then
13:03 adam789654123 what test?
13:03 robotust1a there are tests which define your abilities
13:03 adam789654123 oh... ic
13:04 adam789654123 like a certification?
13:04 robotust1a what is most seutable for your current abilities
13:04 robotust1a some kind of
13:04 adam789654123 i could just be a carpenter
13:04 adam789654123 but i am looking to other things
13:04 robotust1a don't guess, just pass a test
13:05 robotust1a it takes 30 min and after you'll speculate
13:05 robotust1a how old are you?
13:05 adam789654123 34
13:05 robotust1a and you don't know who you want to be?
13:05 adam789654123 i know who i am
13:06 robotust1a from professional point of view?
13:06 adam789654123 with a limited degree of precision, i do know
13:06 robotust1a I already was 8 years a university professof at this age
13:06 adam789654123 ok
13:06 adam789654123 that doesnt just make me an expired twinky
13:06 robotust1a so what do you do for living now?
13:07 robotust1a at what job are you good?
13:07 adam789654123 im not working, but i do carpentry, renovation, that kind of stuff
13:07 robotust1a so may be go into fone foodworking for instance?
13:07 adam789654123 i can be good at quite a bit if im set up with the right people
13:07 robotust1a woodworking*
13:08 robotust1a it sould be no "if" depending on other people
13:08 adam789654123 but my desire is to work in the industry
13:08 adam789654123 thats the way it goes
13:08 robotust1a ok, what kind of industry?
13:08 adam789654123 you arent effected by the people around you?
13:08 robotust1a name it
13:09 robotust1a almost not affected
13:09 adam789654123 except when you have to deal with them alot
13:09 adam789654123 its like saying that a UFC fighter is not effected by his opponent
13:09 robotust1a I have my own vision of my life and I almost not deflected from my way by others
13:10 adam789654123 and so it is for me
13:10 robotust1a adam789654123: what education do you have?
13:10 adam789654123 a tinny bit of college
13:10 adam789654123 did graduate highschool though
13:10 adam789654123 not much
13:10 adam789654123 except finishing highschool
13:10 robotust1a what speciality?
13:10 adam789654123 none
13:11 adam789654123 i have not been an academic achiever
13:11 robotust1a initial data: male, 34 y.o., no speciality?
13:11 robotust1a married?
13:11 adam789654123 no
13:11 robotust1a get money by yourself?
13:11 adam789654123 no
13:12 robotust1a parents?
13:12 robotust1a funds?
13:12 adam789654123 im renovating my moms house now. she throws me a few bucks here and there
13:12 robotust1a the study is not cheap
13:12 adam789654123 i live really cheap
13:12 adam789654123 i live about as cheap as you can imagine
13:12 adam789654123 before this ive been floating around
13:12 robotust1a where are you going to take money for study?
13:12 adam789654123 lived at 4 places in the last 2 years
13:13 adam789654123 i might be able to get grant money
13:13 robotust1a ok
13:13 adam789654123 and if i have to pay for stuff, then i will make the money
13:13 adam789654123 if its within my means, i will find a way
13:14 robotust1a what industry you want to work in?
13:14 adam789654123 im interested in computers, electronics, etc.
13:14 adam789654123 but that could land me anywhere
13:15 robotust1a there is no such industry, it's too wide, narrow your selection
13:15 adam789654123 ill have to think about it
13:15 adam789654123 i have many interests, and i would have to widdle things down
13:16 robotust1a so, 1) think, 2)find proficiency test, do it 3)think again 4) after we can discuss
13:16 adam789654123 that is why i thought mechatronix could be a good FIRST step
13:16 robotust1a after I can help you
13:16 adam789654123 because its not very narrow, in terms of where i can go
13:16 adam789654123 ok
13:17 adam789654123 youve been helpful regaurdless though
13:17 adam789654123 thanks
13:17 adam789654123 i dont want to plan too far in advance
13:17 robotust1a probably yes, but if you didn't work with computers/controllers/hardware/software - it could take a lot of time before you'll start to get some money from it
13:17 adam789654123 but this seems like something that would be worth the effort for me
13:18 robotust1a minimum 5 years
13:18 adam789654123 i have programmed as a serious hobby
13:18 robotust1a if you are into programming it could be less time
13:18 adam789654123 i started with Java, then to Lisp,
13:18 adam789654123 i got really into Lisp
13:18 adam789654123 ever wrote a multi user sever for sharing data
13:18 adam789654123 server*
13:19 robotust1a lisp is ok, but not for mechatronics,
13:19 adam789654123 worked for a company processing data
13:19 robotust1a you'd rather need C/C++ there
13:19 adam789654123 from spreadsheets to generating webpages, and listing on Ebay, etc
13:19 adam789654123 but i can transfer it
13:19 robotust1a sure, it' a bit aside, mechatronics is low and mid level progremming
13:20 adam789654123 iver worked half way through K&R
13:20 adam789654123 and it was pretty easy because of my experience with Lisp
13:20 robotust1a sure
13:20 adam789654123 from something like K&R i could imagine working into more technical works
13:20 robotust1a so, what is your math background?
13:21 adam789654123 over the past 2 years ive been working on my math
13:21 adam789654123 ive studied foundational work of NJWildberger on Youtube
13:21 adam789654123 I have written various programs for math
13:21 robotust1a like
13:22 robotust1a solution of square equation?
13:22 adam789654123 a framwork for doing basic arithmetic with rational ponynomials, incuding simplification
13:22 adam789654123 if i find an interesting math problem, i might make a little framework for it
13:23 adam789654123 to explore it
13:23 robotust1a do you have any idea of math analysis?
13:23 adam789654123 nothing that is not explicit in the name
13:23 robotust1a analytical geometry?
13:23 robotust1a linear algebra?
13:23 adam789654123 im learning the basics
13:24 adam789654123 i am studying basic calculus and geometry now
13:24 robotust1a basics is not enouph now to be a good programmer
13:24 adam789654123 thinking logically, you would be suprized at what you can do without a foundation in math
13:24 robotust1a discret algebra
13:24 robotust1a the theory of sets
13:25 adam789654123 this stuff takes time
13:25 adam789654123 i cant learn it over night
13:25 adam789654123 im very proud of what i have so far accomplished
13:25 adam789654123 but the road ahead is longer ye
13:25 adam789654123 t
13:26 robotust1a and mechatronix includes physics inside
13:26 robotust1a it's yet another field
13:26 adam789654123 this appeals to me
13:26 adam789654123 i think once i get my head around calculus, it will be pretty easy to do the basics
13:26 adam789654123 arount single variable calculus anyway
13:27 adam789654123 then i want to work my way into tensor calculus
13:27 adam789654123 then to multivariable calculus
13:27 adam789654123 meanwhile, im also working on geometry
13:27 adam789654123 basics geometry for now
13:28 adam789654123 and working with a program DrGeo
13:28 adam789654123 so i can play with the constructs
13:28 adam789654123 but it seems things are starting to gell for me
13:28 adam789654123 like im seeing connections between the different fields
13:28 adam789654123 of math for example
13:29 adam789654123 and math and logic
13:29 adam789654123 and how that feeds into calculus, and how it feeds into geometry
13:30 adam789654123 like the solving for the differential
13:30 adam789654123 where you use an infinitesimal
13:30 adam789654123 and it just kind of sort of makes sense to me
13:30 adam789654123 i dont have to merorize a bunch of facts
13:30 adam789654123 it fits into a framework that i am becomming more comfortable with
13:32 robotust1a good luck
13:32 adam789654123 same to you, and thanks
13:35 robotust1a велокм
13:35 adam789654123 Russian?
13:35 robotust1a belarussian
13:35 adam789654123 oh wow!
13:35 adam789654123 cool}
13:35 adam789654123 !
13:36 adam789654123 what is the educational system like in belarus?
13:36 robotust1a belarussian canadian
13:36 robotust1a it was very good, former USSR education system
13:37 robotust1a and free
13:37 adam789654123 ok
13:37 robotust1a in USSR and Europe the high education is free
13:37 adam789654123 if you got a good education in the us without alot of money, you where pretty lucky
13:37 adam789654123 imo
13:37 robotust1a you just need to pay form leaving
13:37 robotust1a so, go you norway
13:38 robotust1a and get you education for free
13:38 robotust1a or Sweden
13:38 adam789654123 and you learned english too
13:38 robotust1a or Germany
13:38 adam789654123 which is very impressive
13:38 robotust1a I wrote scientific articles in English
13:39 adam789654123 you dont have to brag. i can see you speak english ;)
13:39 robotust1a so I learned it more than 15 years ago
13:39 adam789654123 you live in canada now?
13:39 robotust1a :)
13:39 robotust1a yes
13:39 robotust1a 4 years already
13:39 robotust1a Montreal
13:39 adam789654123 iv visited there once
13:39 adam789654123 had a good time
13:39 adam789654123 what do you think of it?
13:40 adam789654123 i live in New Jersey at the time
13:40 adam789654123 went there by motorcycle
13:40 adam789654123 with a friend
13:40 adam789654123 it was one of those once in a lifetime memorable experiences
13:41 robotust1a 700 km on bike :)
13:41 robotust1a too far
13:41 adam789654123 in the rain on the way back
13:41 adam789654123 we where crazy
13:41 adam789654123 were*
13:41 adam789654123 i would never do that now
13:41 robotust1a :)
13:42 robotust1a 700 km is far even by car
13:42 adam789654123 i had a cruiser
13:42 adam789654123 my freind had a speed bike
13:42 adam789654123 i think i fared better
13:42 robotust1a Montreal is ok, not the best but I can live here
13:43 adam789654123 basically just a light density city, from what i can remember
13:43 adam789654123 do you speak French?
13:43 robotust1a the only things I don't like here is import taxes, shipping fees, and transport system
13:43 robotust1a yes
13:44 robotust1a learned it 2 years ago
13:44 robotust1a no
13:44 robotust1a 4 years
13:44 adam789654123 how many languages do you speak?
13:44 robotust1a but I don't use it almost
13:44 robotust1a 4
13:44 adam789654123 Belarusian, English, French, and ...
13:44 robotust1a and russian
13:44 adam789654123 of course!
13:45 adam789654123 how could you have missed that one!
13:45 adam789654123 ;)
13:45 robotust1a I'm russian speaking belarus
13:45 adam789654123 im learning Esperanto now, but i want to learn Spanish next
13:45 robotust1a I'm not sure I need esperanto
13:46 adam789654123 only if you were interested
13:46 adam789654123 i like the idea of it, and it is a refined language
13:46 robotust1a for AI I need another language, which is not based on natural languages
13:46 adam789654123 you mean you HAVE or you NEED one you dont have`
13:46 adam789654123 ?
13:46 robotust1a I would prefer to learn chinise
13:47 robotust1a I need to invent it
13:47 adam789654123 i would love to learn Chinese
13:47 adam789654123 but that would be a huge achivement
13:47 adam789654123 to learn Ch..
13:47 adam789654123 i saw an article some time ago about using Esperanto for AI
13:47 robotust1a I have to learn how to read it at least
13:47 adam789654123 the basics are very easy
13:48 robotust1a adam789654123: Esperanto is not good for AI
13:48 adam789654123 and can be learned in one or a few days
13:48 robotust1a it's my opinion
13:48 adam789654123 ok
13:48 adam789654123 you need to learn how to read Chinese?
13:49 robotust1a yes, because china do a lot of stuff, and a lot of stuff now written in chinise
13:49 robotust1a the pronansation is different, but written chinese is the same
13:49 robotust1a for at least 2000 years
13:50 adam789654123 is it pinyin that is the standard?
13:50 robotust1a there are 2 type of chinese, traditional and simplified
13:50 adam789654123 ok
13:50 adam789654123 im guessing you want to learned simplified
13:50 robotust1a traditional is in honk kong and taiwan
13:51 robotust1a it's better to learn traditional
13:51 adam789654123 really... ok.... thats interesting
13:51 robotust1a because it depicts better
13:51 adam789654123 did you start learning it yet?
13:51 robotust1a it's easier to get meaning from sign
13:51 robotust1a I started but dropped
13:52 adam789654123 how long do you think it will take you
13:52 robotust1a I know about 80 signs
13:52 robotust1a 2000 signs a year about
13:52 adam789654123 one year for you to learn Chinese
13:52 robotust1a no
13:52 robotust1a 2-3
13:53 adam789654123 how will you design your practice?
13:53 robotust1a and I'm lucky because I work with chinese guy who can help me
13:53 adam789654123 thats a great resource
13:53 robotust1a real chinese
13:53 robotust1a I know how to write glyphs already
13:54 robotust1a just practice
13:54 adam789654123 but will you schedule yourself?
13:54 robotust1a yes
13:54 adam789654123 what might an outline looklike?
13:54 adam789654123 shooting from the hip of course
13:54 robotust1a 30 min a day
13:55 robotust1a more than enough
13:55 adam789654123 one solid block at 30min a day
13:55 robotust1a 2000 signs a year = 6 signs a day
13:55 robotust1a yes
13:55 robotust1a one solid block,
13:55 adam789654123 i couldnt keep that kind of a pace
13:56 robotust1a I usually write down glyphs
13:56 adam789654123 i need to re-learn often
13:56 robotust1a it's notmal
13:56 adam789654123 with new stuff anyway
13:56 robotust1a normal
13:56 robotust1a repetition on the morning
13:57 adam789654123 i split my esperanto into 4 x 15 minute sessions a day
13:57 adam789654123 it is quite challenging to get to the point i am with my english
13:57 robotust1a no learn something there is a magic days for repetition
13:57 robotust1a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 9th
13:58 adam789654123 ahhhhh
13:58 adam789654123 ok
13:58 robotust1a don't need to repeat 4 times a day
13:58 adam789654123 i mean practice
13:58 adam789654123 but yes
13:58 adam789654123 i see what you mean
13:58 adam789654123 because there is a decay rate from when you first learn something
13:58 robotust1a if you want to learn something forever, you need to repeat passed material that days
13:58 adam789654123 and it changes as you relearn it
13:59 adam789654123 "that day"?
13:59 robotust1a 4 repetitions is enough to remember things forever
13:59 adam789654123 oh
14:00 robotust1a I didn't followed that rule exactly, but did something similar
14:00 adam789654123 some things just dont stick until i think about them
14:00 adam789654123 like with grammar, i might need to think about the word in relation to other words
14:00 adam789654123 why it is imporant
14:01 adam789654123 its subtle different to other words that are similar
14:01 adam789654123 difference*
14:01 robotust1a language is not just "words+grammar"
14:01 adam789654123 agreed
14:01 adam789654123 its also good to write and read in the language
14:02 robotust1a not necessary
14:02 adam789654123 really
14:02 adam789654123 ?
14:02 robotust1a chinese is good for abbreviation
14:02 adam789654123 hmmmm
14:02 robotust1a I will use it for myself
14:02 adam789654123 for shorthand?
14:02 robotust1a yes
14:02 adam789654123 interesting
14:03 robotust1a and I can write with glyphs in any direction,
14:03 robotust1a from left to right and from top to bottom
14:03 adam789654123 yes
14:03 adam789654123 thats is one of those ineresting things about Chinese
14:03 robotust1a this is an advantage
14:04 adam789654123 how so?
14:04 robotust1a over the alphabetic languages
14:04 adam789654123 i mean, you COULD sequence the characters in any direction
14:04 adam789654123 in even an alphabetic language
14:05 robotust1a yes, but words are too long
14:05 adam789654123 ohhhhhh.......
14:05 adam789654123 that makes alot of sense
14:05 robotust1a a chinese character is square
14:05 adam789654123 we see better horizontally
14:05 adam789654123 so we stretch the words horizontally
14:06 adam789654123 we as in everyone ;)
14:06 robotust1a no, we write horizintally because the sun goes from left to right
14:06 adam789654123 ?
14:06 adam789654123 it goes from east to west
14:06 adam789654123 from horizon to apex to horizon
14:07 adam789654123 in the summer here anyway
14:07 robotust1a there is correlation between how sun goes in the sky and direction of writing
14:07 adam789654123 im trying to imagine this
14:08 robotust1a in northen hemisphere it goes from left to right
14:08 robotust1a if you stand with face to sun
14:08 adam789654123 i see what you are saying
14:08 adam789654123 but what about Europe?
14:08 robotust1a the same
14:08 robotust1a all writes from left to right
14:08 adam789654123 ohhhh
14:08 robotust1a only in araby
14:08 adam789654123 i see
14:09 robotust1a they write from right to left
14:09 adam789654123 which is in the souther hemisphere
14:09 adam789654123 southern*f
14:09 adam789654123 the middle east
14:09 adam789654123 actually
14:09 adam789654123 thats the norther hemispher
14:10 adam789654123 now im looking at a map
14:10 robotust1a and chinese write normally from left to right, but long time ago when they write on bamboo stripes they wrote from top to bottom
14:10 adam789654123 what writing systems have survived from the southern hemisphere
14:10 adam789654123 that makes sense
14:11 robotust1a do you know what is latitude 27 degree?
14:11 adam789654123 what is there? i dont know
14:12 robotust1a the elevation of sun in the summer and winter is different
14:12 adam789654123 yes
14:13 robotust1a iven if you live in northen hemisphere but between 0 and 27 degree of latitude - you'll see the sun moving form right to left in the summer
14:14 adam789654123 ok
14:14 adam789654123 thats funny, i simple never thought about it
14:15 adam789654123 i think its because "left" and "right" are relative to the direction i am facing
14:15 adam789654123 but i understand what you are saying
14:15 robotust1a absolutely relative
14:16 robotust1a sun points the direction of writings
14:16 adam789654123 if i stand as if the sun was rising on the right side, it will set to my left side
14:16 robotust1a it's just a correlation, not exact rule
14:16 robotust1a yes
14:16 adam789654123 for me, left to right, i mean
14:17 robotust1a yes
14:17 adam789654123 but thats very interesting
14:17 robotust1a in northen hemisphere if you live higher than 27 degree
14:18 adam789654123 im trying to imagine this geometrically, but im having trouble with it
14:19 adam789654123 so people on the opposite sides of the globe are kind of standing upside down from one another
14:20 adam789654123 which changes the left to right orientation
14:20 adam789654123 when looking at a point in the distance
14:21 adam789654123 if i have a disk, and one person stands on top, and another stands on the bottom, and we look at the same point in the distance, their left side is my right side
14:21 adam789654123 so as we spin the disk to the left, i see things move from left to right, they see things move from right to left
14:21 adam789654123 thats actually very interesting
14:22 adam789654123 awsome even!
14:24 robotust1a in australia sun goes from right to left, yes
14:26 adam789654123 that is a fascinating fact
14:26 adam789654123 and the geometrical visualization i have is a really neat interpretation
14:28 adam789654123 thanks a bunch robotust1a. this was both fun and educational
14:29 robotust1a sure, welcome
14:43 adam789654123 :)
16:09 rue_more and yea, the water spins the other way down the drain
16:09 rue_more as the last of the dirty laundry water spun downt eh drain I made sure to take a pic
16:10 rue_more I didn't have to get punlically kicked in the ass to prove it either
17:10 GargantuaSauce_ nice video deshipu
17:11 GargantuaSauce_ does it walk in an arbitrary direction now?
17:11 GargantuaSauce_ or just orthogonal ones
17:11 GargantuaSauce_ i also like the startup sequence, to reduce initial burst power consumption i assume. i just dealt with that by making the power supply way beefier
17:12 deshipu GargantuaSauce_: arbitrary, it can also change directions mid-step and do roation while walking, but I disabled it for now because it would sometimes have its legs tangled up
17:12 GargantuaSauce_ coool
17:12 deshipu it changes the order of moving legs depending on the direction
17:12 deshipu but can still do it mid-step :)
17:14 deshipu what I need now is to come up with a way to limit the leg movements so that they 1. don't move past the servo angles, 2. don't try to move past leg's length, 3. don't interfere with each other
17:14 deshipu the last one is going to be tough
17:14 GargantuaSauce_ yeah constraints are kind of hard
17:14 GargantuaSauce_ i havent approached that at all for mine yet
17:14 GargantuaSauce_ basically planning on redoing the math from scratch to use a stochastic/iterative solver
17:14 deshipu I'm kinda doing workarounds for now. I ignore the command on 1), and raise an exception on 2)
17:15 deshipu I also want to rewrite my IK in arduino
17:15 deshipu right now it's in python on the computer's side
17:15 SquirrelCZECH hmm
17:16 deshipu easier to debug that way
17:16 uirrelCZECH always supposed that 1)2) are sort of buildins in algorith
17:16 GargantuaSauce_ yeah when you do it "right" that should be the case
17:16 deshipu SquirrelCZECH: well, you get an impossible triangle with 2
17:16 SquirrelCZECH hmm
17:16 rue_more 2 sided triangle?
17:16 deshipu SquirrelCZECH: which usually means division by 0 or something similar
17:17 GargantuaSauce_ or an acos/asin of >1
17:17 rue_more do you have a redundant joint?
17:17 SquirrelCZECH hmm
17:17 uirrelCZECH just got problems with his air
17:17 SquirrelCZECH have to prepare gyroscope stabilization
17:17 deshipu rue_more: a triangle with one side longer than the sum of the other two
17:17 SquirrelCZECH little bit worried about proper PID settings
17:17 rue_more thats not good
17:17 SquirrelCZECH this can end terribly wrong :/
17:17 rue_more dont start with pid
17:17 rue_more start with well tuned P or pd
17:18 SquirrelCZECH yeah
17:18 rue_more so , why are you trying to place a foot out of bounds of the robot?
17:18 deshipu rue_more: because I don't know where the bounds are
17:18 SquirrelCZECH normally
17:19 rue_more you should have a 'prefered position' for each foot relative to the robot
17:19 deshipu home position, sure
17:19 SquirrelCZECH I would solve deshipus problem by "if it's outside of the bonds, move it inside" but this is maybe not the case
17:19 rue_more and that should be prettymuch in the middle of its available range
17:19 GargantuaSauce_ yeah if you want a 100% analytic solution you're going to have to enumerate the boundaries of the workspaces of the feet
17:19 deshipu sure
17:19 rue_more I should finish buddy III
17:20 GargantuaSauce_ yes you should!
17:20 deshipu the thing is, the way I do walking, it has two independent components:
17:20 rue_more you need tomake sure your foot update cycle is faster than the feet can go out of range
17:21 rue_more and if you end up with a 3 million dollar robot that keps picking up and putting its feet down when its not going anywhere, you failed!
17:21 deshipu one is making the steps with the feet -- shifting the body to move the center of gravity, raising the leg, moving it to the home position plus speed, and putting it down on the floor
17:21 deshipu the other is constantly moving backwars all feet that touch the ground
17:21 deshipu it works great and lets me change directions mid-step and such
17:22 rue_more hmm, I think your doing it wrong, but ok
17:22 deshipu but sometimes with a complicated pattern of changing directions and so on, a leg will stay on the ground for too long
17:22 rue_more I want some toys to arrive from china!
17:22 peepsalot i'm making a 3d printer with a setup similar to this guy, using some kind of string for tension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM1ytIyH6BQ
17:22 rue_more if you phrase a problem properly, you can make it both impossable or extremely simple
17:22 deshipu I should probably have a smarter algorithm for deciding which leg to raise next
17:23 SquirrelCZECH deshipu: just question
17:23 peepsalot wondering if there's a good way to have a sort of quick release on the tension line, as well as an easy way to cinch it up for adjusting tension
17:23 SquirrelCZECH have you made some research about how spiders and such made they movements?
17:23 peepsalot should i use fishing line connectors?
17:23 deshipu SquirrelCZECH: yes, of course, the problem is, spiders have 8 legs, I have 4
17:24 deshipu SquirrelCZECH: so it's mostly cats and lizards for me
17:24 SquirrelCZECH oh
17:24 SquirrelCZECH that's more harder :)
17:24 deshipu yes and no
17:24 deshipu you need to shift the body, but you only move 1 leg at a time
17:25 deshipu at least for a statically stable gait
17:25 deshipu I didn't yet try with the one where you move two legs at a time very fast
17:25 SquirrelCZECH well, everything of 6 and more let's you to keep the center of mass in a triangle when ... moving
17:25 SquirrelCZECH deshipu: I seee
17:26 SquirrelCZECH well, gn, some sleep now
17:26 deshipu good night
17:26 deshipu I should go too
19:54 robotustra https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/958028900/human-scale-prototype-for-bugjuggler-a-car-jugglin?ref=category
22:53 rue_more no, seen that he cant make it happen with the methods he's using
22:55 rue_more ok I did a trip to the landfill, got my truck scheduled in for a oil change, bought some stuf at the reused building supplies store, got some radiators from the auto wrecker, did some firewood... and a few other things I cant remember just now